ALBERT PEREZ – Maui Tomorrow Steersman 2019

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Jason Schwartz welcomes ALBERT PEREZ, Exec Director of MAUI TOMORROW, environmental and sustainable planning advocates for decades on Maui in Hawaii. They explore facets of Maui’s future. Conversation about creation of affordable housing… and more 6-24-2019

Summary & Transcript Below…

Interview with Albert Perez, Executive Director of Maui Tomorrow Foundation

1. 1. 1. 1. 00:00 → 04:51

• [00:00] Introduction to the show “The Neutral Zone” hosted by Jason Schwartz, emphasizing dialogue across all sides to find common ground. The show is sponsored by the Center for Common Ground.
• [01:21] Guest introduction: Albert Perez, Executive Director of Maui Tomorrow Foundation, an organization dedicated to shaping the future of Maui through ecological and community-based planning.
• [02:44] Albert explains Maui Tomorrow’s mission: educating and empowering the public to engage in the planning process, advocating for ecologically sound development and preservation of open spaces.
• [03:28] Discussion about Maui’s multiple planning documents: countywide policy plans, the Maui Island Plan, and various community plans. Maui Tomorrow fights for adherence to these legally mandated plans.
• [04:09] Clarification about enforcement: It is the county’s responsibility, especially the Planning Department, to enforce these plans, but often they do not, which is where Maui Tomorrow intervenes—working with developers to align projects with plans or legally challenging non-compliance.

1. 1. 1. 1. 04:51 → 08:44

• [05:34] Discussion about the large land purchase by Mahi Pono (A&B land) and the conceptual “Malama Aina” report by Maui Tomorrow exploring sustainable agricultural alternatives after sugar plantations ceased.
• [06:10] Albert notes that Mahi Pono’s plans are still conceptual with no definitive adopted plans; Maui Tomorrow continues to encourage regenerative and sustainable agricultural practices.
• [07:31] Observations about visible land clearing and farming activity by Mahi Pono indicate some progress but no clear comprehensive plan has been made public.
• [08:05] Regarding land zoning, approximately 24,000–27,000 acres are designated as Important Agricultural Lands (IAL) receiving tax incentives, meaning they must be used for agriculture. Other lands without IAL status could be rezoned but Mahi Pono appears committed to agriculture, which is encouraging.

1. 1. 1. 1. 08:44 → 14:53

• [10:04] Transition into political involvement and housing topics. Albert clarifies Maui Tomorrow as a non-political nonprofit, though he personally engages in political conversations.
• [12:19] Affordable housing is a core focus. Maui Tomorrow drafted the first affordable housing ordinance in 2005 (Residential Workforce Housing Ordinance) and remains involved in advocacy.
• [12:56] Despite ordinances, 93% of new housing is not truly affordable to median-income or lower-income residents. Illegal short-term vacation rentals exacerbate the housing shortage by removing long-term rentals from the market.
• [14:11] Public awareness of the housing crisis has increased over the last decade, with rental prices soaring (example: $4,500 average rental in Kihei), making it unaffordable for locals.

1. 1. 1. 1. 14:53 → 19:54

• [15:33] Realtors often list properties as rentable on a short-term basis, inflating prices and displacing locals. Large hotel chains like Outrigger are involved in massive vacation rental operations masquerading as virtual hotels.
• [16:48] Albert voices frustration with investors who treat homes as financial assets rather than community housing, calling such speculative investments “not pono” (not right).
• [18:02] Current affordable housing policies allocate only 7.5% of new units truly affordable to households at or below median income, with the rest skewed to higher-income brackets, which is insufficient.
• [19:54] Discussion about potential policy solutions such as tax incentives for developers to build affordable housing or placing limits on vacation rentals to prioritize housing for residents.

1. 1. 1. 1. 20:36 → 25:42

• [21:15] Proposed policy ideas include significantly increasing property taxes on investment properties while exempting primary residents and long-term renters, aiming to discourage speculative investment.
• [23:24] Maui Tomorrow works with government bodies like the former Maui Affordable Housing Committee (now Stand-Up Maui) and encourages incentives that would motivate developers to build 100% affordable housing in designated community plan areas.
• [23:57] Criticism of developments proposing affordable housing in fire-prone areas with inadequate infrastructure. Albert stresses the importance of honoring community plans that integrate safety and sustainability.
• [25:08] Encouragement for government support such as waiving permit fees and prioritizing development near existing infrastructure to reduce costs and increase affordability.

1. 1. 1. 1. 25:42 → 30:24

• [29:42] Albert reflects on the growing housing affordability crisis as an emergency, noting that many people—including seniors—are struggling to live on Maui.
• [30:24] Question about whether a housing emergency declaration could enable radical solutions. Albert cautiously agrees it might be justified but worries emergency powers could lead to irresponsible development ignoring environmental and safety concerns.

1. 1. 1. 1. 30:24 → 36:14

• [31:10] Mayor and council have acknowledged constraints but emphasize legal and appropriate development processes. Albert advocates for adhering strictly to community plans even under emergency conditions.
• [33:35] Explanation of “Eevee” as the bones of ancestors, highlighting cultural and environmental sensitivities that must be respected in planning.
• [34:17] Albert emphasizes that the laws and plans exist but are frequently ignored or unenforced due to insufficient staffing and political will.
• [34:59] He recounts leaving the Planning Department because plans were treated as mere guidelines, not mandatory rules. Maui Tomorrow was created to hold developers and government accountable.
• [36:14] Upcoming West Maui community plan advisory committees will face challenges with current proposals inconsistent with plans, sending a discouraging message to community members.

1. 1. 1. 1. 36:14 → 41:41

• [36:54] Enforcement varies with administration and leadership. Albert calls on citizens to engage actively by communicating with the mayor and council to demand plan adherence.
• [38:50] Praise for the volunteer board and community members supporting Maui Tomorrow’s mission to protect Maui’s future.
• [39:35] Albert and Jason reflect on the importance of strategic, long-term community engagement and planning.
• [40:17] Discussion turns to homelessness and the visible crisis on Maui, with many living in cars or makeshift shelters. The Maui Homeless Alliance is working on solutions, but the problem remains severe.

1. 1. 1. 1. 41:41 → 47:38

• [42:26] Albert stresses the need to separate housing from human services functions within government for better focus and management.
• [43:52] The market alone cannot solve Maui’s housing crisis. Private developers require profit incentives, but the County has largely stepped back from public housing production.
• [45:08] The problem is market failure: without intervention, housing will become accessible only to wealthy investors, displacing locals.
• [46:26] Proposals include County-led land designation and developer competitions focused solely on affordable housing with criteria for sustainability, energy efficiency, and livability.
• [47:38] Such strategies have been successful in the past but are not currently implemented.

1. 1. 1. 1. 47:38 → 54:36

• [48:15] Immediate relief could come from cracking down on illegal short-term vacation rentals, which remove existing housing stock from the market and artificially inflate prices.
• [48:50] Once illegal vacation rentals are converted to legal long-term rentals or sold, supply increases, potentially lowering prices significantly.
• [49:33] Albert encourages ongoing public advocacy and participation in planning processes to keep pressure on elected officials.
• [53:20] He explains the structure of local governance over planning and zoning—community plan advisory committees, Planning Commission, and County Council—and stresses the power of voting and public testimony.
• [54:36] Maui Tomorrow offers educational sessions to help citizens understand and engage effectively in the planning process.

1. 1. 1. 1. 54:36 → 56:15

• [55:19] Closing remarks: Jason praises Albert and Maui Tomorrow as a beacon of hope and sustainability for Maui, acknowledging their critical role in preserving the island’s future.
• [56:02] Albert invites viewers to connect with Maui Tomorrow for resources and participation, emphasizing the ongoing need for community involvement.

1. 1. 1. Key Insights

• Maui Tomorrow is a nonprofit focused on ecological, community-based planning and rigorous enforcement of legally adopted community plans.
• Maui faces a severe affordable housing crisis exacerbated by illegal vacation rentals, speculative investment, and lack of enforcement.
• Existing laws and community plans exist but are often ignored or unenforced due to political or staffing shortcomings.
• Sustainable development must respect environmental, cultural, and safety concerns, avoiding fire-prone or infrastructure-poor areas.
• Market forces alone cannot solve housing problems; creative government interventions and incentives are essential.
• Public engagement and voting are critical to influencing planning and development outcomes.
• Maui Tomorrow provides education, advocacy, and legal oversight but relies heavily on public support and participation.

1. 1. 1. Conclusion

This interview with Albert Perez offers a comprehensive view of Maui’s complex planning and housing challenges. It highlights the tension between development pressures, ecological stewardship, and community needs. While solutions exist—ranging from policy reforms to enforcement and public participation—the key lies in consistent, strategic advocacy and respect for the community’s vision as embodied in adopted plans. Maui Tomorrow continues to serve as a vital watchdog and educator, urging citizens to be informed and involved to safeguard Maui’s future livability and sustainability.

00:00

[Music] watch this hand [Music] please meet you what good morning everyone Aloha I’m Jason Schwartz and this is the neutral zone we’re anything but neutral what that means is we like to speak to people on all sides of all issues and see where we can find common ground our main sponsor in fact is my brother who as a center for common ground down in Los Angeles and it’s interesting to me that we both come from different places different environments here but we’re coming up with the same concept speaking of the

01:21

same concept we have a guest today that I have wanted to have on our show since the beginning Albert Perez is executive director is that right good morning Jason good morning yes I am executive OE tomorrow some people say whatwhat’s Maui tomorrow if you’ve been on Maui and you’d like to know what Maui is gonna look like tomorrow and you’d like to shape it rather than sort of wait that’s when I think of you welcome to our show Albert how are you oh thanks for having me Jason I’m well this morning are you al

01:58

or Albert what do you prefer take your pick just don’t call me Alex now some of you know al Perez for a long time I remember my friend and dr. Rick sands always with talking highly of you and Anthony Rankin cuz it was more than 25 years ago the state park at McKenna was really an effort of you 3 is how I recall that was probably 40 years ago and this is our our 30th anniversary of Maui tomorrow 730 a–the year well Maui tomorrow how would you describe what Maui tomorrow does or is well it’s the full name is Maui tomorrow

02:44

foundation so we’re all about educating people to make the right choices empowering them to get involved in the planning process and what we push for is ecologically sound development and open space we get involved in making our feelings known and we help other people to do that as well well as I think of Maui tomorrow I see that so many things are changing all through these years and you’ve been sort of laying out I want to call it a plan you know for the future of Maui that might well

03:28

be integrated to serve its people do you concentrate on any special areas at environmental focus or housing focus or anything um I don’t know if we have a plan for Maui Maui has its own series of plans the general plan so there’s the countywide policy plans there is the Maui Island plan and there are the different community plans and those are the plans for Maui and so once they’re adopted we fight for them because there are a lot of times where those plans aren’t followed and yet they’re supposed

04:09

to be followed by state law is there any kind of quote agency or anyone guiding to our world to see that they do in fact hold to the plan or is that where you commit well no that is the responsibility of every agency in the county waiting when decisions are made no one can say wait that’s not in the community plan you passed it but that’s not in the plan you know you’ve gone outside the lines nope well then that should be the responsibility of the planning department and oftentimes it doesn’t

04:51

happen and that’s where we or other groups come in and we get involved and we point out that a particular proposal is not consistent with the community plan and if if they persist we try to work with the developers to make it consistent if they persist in not following the plan then we do what we can legally to stop them how things look in these days the 41,000 acre or however many thousand acres purchased by mahi pono of the a and B land when I thought that was happening I thought Oh now’s a

05:34

chance albert showed me this incredible plan of what could be done with this island have you had much conversation with groups like him imagine some groups like mahi pono yeah yeah we’ve met with them they sought us out initially right after they bought the land I have to say that the malama aina report to which you’re referring is not a plan it’s a conceptual idea of what could be done with the former sugar lands and that’s something that we did we recognized that Hawaiian commercial and sugar was likely

06:10

to go out of business at least stop farming sugar and we wanted to we didn’t see anything being considered other than Monsanto and Cattle so we wanted to explore some different options and so we did that anyone who’s interested in that report can look at it future of Maui dot org future of Maui or G well I always thought of it as not a plan you know rubber-stamped but just as a really why’s incredible the look have you seen some of that in the in the adopted plans of the my group by example um that’s

06:52

hard to say I haven’t really seen anything definitive from mahi pono themselves we keep meeting with them and encouraging them to adopt regenerative agricultural farming practices so we haven’t seen anything bad coming out of it but it’s just that we haven’t seen much definitive at all conversations that at least I’ve seen in media from Larry Nixon who I guess is believing them right he was the one in charge of kind of implementing the first stages at least the stuff anything specific have

07:31

you heard I mean I’ve heard a little bit of conversation but they’re gonna plant this and they’re gonna plant that and that they are regenerative in their posture have you seen anything solid yet nothing I’ve seen I’ve seen some new machinery I’ve seen where they’ve cleared some land particularly out between the old mill on the way out to Kihei looking off towards Malaya there’s a whole bunch of land that’s been plowed or disked I’m not sure what the right

08:05

term is but yeah looks like they’re moving forward with something and you probably ought being that your former planning guy can land when they have 40-something thousand acres that’s AG I was speaking to someone that talked about a transportation corridor with for future development than that some of this land would be housing when it’s designated as a large AG over time can those parcels be changed into different zoning for different uses well that’s a really broad question Jason um

08:44

part of the land I think it’s twenty four thousand twenty seven thousand acres is designated as important agricultural lands and so they’ve been receiving or I should say Alec Center in baldon Baldwin was receiving certain tax breaks in return for designating it that way so that land needs to be used for agriculture there are some other lands that are not an important a glance designation and those could be converted however it’s pretty clear from my conversations with mahi pono that they are not really interested

09:20

in doing anything except agriculture so that’s encouraging that is encouraged that’s encouraging so I guess it’s a still to do to be determined I remember it was pre election time and I called you up I thought I know who could be a campaign manager for me and I called him I called you up I was living in Kailua and you had mentioned you know that you’d spoken to Tasha Kamen and I spoke to Tasha and I made determination not to run but I know that you’re involved and when I think of Tasha the first word

10:04

that comes to my mind besides being a wonderful person is housing and I know that she’s kind of been focusing on housing have you worked with any groups about future affordable housing thing is that something Maui tomorrow gets involved in we do all the time I want him I don’t remember the conversation you’re referring to where I supposedly and talked with Tasha I want to make it clear though that as a private citizen I have some political involvement but Maui tomorrow does not get involved in short

10:37

politics well I was thinking you know it was early on and the thing in alan arakawa was talking about running for council again and I thought well I live here in Kahului and I think I should be thinking to challenge that and I was just trying to think of who do I know that’s thoughtful that if I was looking for someone to be in charge of planning in Maui County where would I be looking who would I be looking that has a real good idea of what’s going on here and I thought of you okay and I do

11:12

remember that conversation so I don’t think you were aware that Tasha was running at the time I don’t know if you were not but well that’s the reason I actually I I got together I met with her just to see what her level of of commitment running was and I didn’t want to muddy the water and I thought that’s the yeah move aside you know over the years that’s one thing you know being around politics but not running for anything I’ve been trying to think of what is my role here all these years you

11:45

know as in the mortgage business but wasn’t cultivating mainland clients because I didn’t want people buying here and then renting it back to us which is happening but um I’ve had my hand in politics in a funny way and being very conversational and I think when I think about you very diplomatic in putting out the right things to do to the world trying not to make enemies along the way because you know things in the future can always work together to find a common ground you know yeah thank you

12:19

thank you Jason you asked about affordable housing and yeah our involvement and that we’ve actually been involved I think it was in 2005 that we Maui tomorrow as an organization drafted the first affordable housing ordinance the residential workforce housing ordinance I’m not sure the date exactly but so we’ve continued to be involved in that what we see is that local residents are having to leave and most of the housing that’s built in fact even under the residential workforce housing

12:56

ordinance ninety-three percent of the housing that gets built and permitted here is not truly affordable to people who make the median income or less so it’s no wonder that we’re experiencing the problems that we’re having in in addition there are thousands of illegal vacation rentals now if those were all instantly converted to being legal long-term rentals I don’t know if I would solve our entire housing problem but I think it would make a huge dent and all the owners that purchased with

13:34

their vision of paying for their mortgage by their short term vacation rentals I guess they’re the they can be the obstacle there’s been a lot I remember when Charmaine was proposing things I don’t know if it’s exactly the same but it was much it was very open that she wanted to take these illegal short-term rentals and convert them and got him a lot of back Bush do you still feel that or you think people are kind of understanding why that was important well I think that’s it’s been probably I

14:11

don’t know ten or twelve years since that happened I think people are much more aware of the impact I was talking to someone the other day and they said the average price for a rental in Kihei is $4,500 that’s crazy that’s not affordable to to anyone that I hang out with I mean I know when I that must include houses and apartments and everything I don’t know 40 statistic they were referring to but I know it’s not cheap and the number of rental homes keeps dropping interestingly there was an article in

14:53

the Honolulu I think it was KITV that TV station and they just passed a couple of vacation rental ISO ordinances about enforcement I believe it was and like the very next day they interviewed this realtor who said I’ve already gotten lots of calls for people who want to list their property now when you go out because I I still have this dream of owning a home myself when you go out with the realtor and you look at one of these homes and I’m talking about here on Maui they very often will say oh and

15:33

you know it’s not legal but you could rent this out and that could help you afford the mortgage well guess what that does that that makes it so that people can afford to pay more which makes it harder for local people to so pay rent or buy a home so that’s what we’re doing we’re competing a person like me who’s like not able to afford a home I’m competing with investors as you said who come here and I’m talking about big corporations that over outrigger Hotel I went to a planning conference three

16:08

years of the outrigger hotel had a thousand of these vacation rentals that I had no idea I thought they just had big hotels in Waikiki they have a virtual hotel in a thousand of these different units all over the place and I they didn’t say whether they were legal or not Wow yeah that’s uncomfortable to hear right so how can how can we compete against those kinds of people and you know I get this argument that well you know you’re gonna you’re gonna force me to sell my my investment and my response is well I’m

16:48

sorry number one I’m sorry that you made that investment and maybe the realtor convinced you to do that but it’s not pono and it’s not helping our housing market our local people are having to leave and it’s just getting worse every day so I’m glad to see that the City and County of Honolulu took action like that we also as account to you we adopted a charter amendment that allowed the planning department to find people up to $20,000 for having an illegal short term rental but then when I saw the Planning

17:25

Department and the Planning Commission start talking about it they started if I recall correctly they were talking about finding people less than that because the Charter says up to 20,000 so I don’t know I think we need to send a strong message and encourage people help landlords to work with people and get housing for our people so we don’t have to leave no question I mean we’ve been talking about affordable housing and number of affordable units at least 20 years that I’m aware of you can tell me

18:02

probably Walker I mean I ran into Vince begoy I used to be on council and you probably know well from lanai and when he’s talking about 8 and 10,000 living units short of what we need right now and like you say is it 93 percent of building is happening things that aren’t affordable don’t you say just for you according to our definition that Maui tomorrow truly affordable housing is housing for people who make I think it’s eighty-three thousand dollars a year as a household or less and there

18:39

are many people who make a lot less than that a lot less but that is the median income and so if you look at the residential workforce housing policy only 25 percent of all the homes that get built are supposed to be affordable for between eighty and a hundred forty percent of the median income so we say between a hundred and a hundred and forty percent is not really affordable if you look at just what’s allocated for eighty to a hundred percent that’s 30 percent of the 25 percent so if you

19:19

follow the math it’s 7.5 percent of the total so if you have a thousand homes that get permitted and built in a big subdivision 75 of those will be affordable to people who make the median income or less I want to say affordable that doesn’t mean comfortably affordable it means affordable by a standard of by example I don’t know what is it one third of your income should be directed used to be 25 percent and I moved it to 33 percent and when I was doing mortgages you’ve been even qualified up

19:54

to like 44 46 percent of your income for a mortgage so when I hear affordable have you guys seen any of laws that make sense have you heard of any policy changes that are in any way going to help happen more get more affordable housing like I was thinking certain legal incentives to developers like when I think his developer Everett Dowling him he could build affordable housing we’ve him do amazing things with all kinds of properties over the years I guess there’s not as much profit maybe the law

20:36

could be created to give tax incentive long term benefit to developers that would or I don’t know if we can put a ceiling maybe you can you can probably tell me put a ceiling on the number of vacation and short-term rental kind of properties high-end whatever non affordable so that we can get a massive construction of lower end affordable and somehow given a tax advantage can that be done have you seen things like that being created I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to but there have been

21:15

proposals to say increase the residential property tax rate significantly while at the same time creating a very large exemption for people who live in their homes or who rent long term so the effect would be the same you wouldn’t be paying any more in property tax as long as you’re living in living in their or renting to somebody long-term the difference would be that if our residential property tax rate for Outsiders went way up then Hawaii wouldn’t be as attractive of the place to invest as as it is right now if

22:00

you look at our property tax rate I’m gonna pull the number out of the air a couple of numbers out of the air but if ours is 2% of the value 2.83 there are many places on the continental US where the the prices are or the rates are much higher than 670 percent and so if you’re a big investor and you want to invest money Hawaii looks very attractive well I’m that’s why I was saying I haven’t seen anything yet that I can recall that would attract the developer who’s here doing non affordable homes uh no

22:42

incentives well that’s what I’d like to see some strong incentives so that is their building choice can I imagine we can do that we have been working with the mayor or the council various people for a long time we’ve been involved with what used to be called the the face maui affordable housing committee and they recently changed their name i believe now it’s stand-up Maui but there are developers on that group and I’ve asked them you know if the county were to kick in on online items that would really

23:24

help you bring the cost of housing down would you be willing to build a hundred percent affordable housing and not only that but would you be willing to do it in an area where it’s in the community plan we’re getting these proposals because state law allows you to do what’s called a tool and H project and that’s hrs 201 H and it says that you can get exemptions from anything any state or county laws except for meeting minimum requirements for health or safety well what we’re getting is people

23:57

are buying agricultural land and they’re proposing to develop that and it’s not consistent with our community plan the housing is affordable when you look at it from how much you spend on the housing but they’ve got to have two cars and drive we’ve got two proposals coming up again before the council tomorrow in Makela and we just had a huge fire there and everybody had to run for their lives just in August we had another one in 2007 another big fire in 2001 I mean there was a woman who came and testified

24:35

who had second and third degree burns from the last fire and she is urging the council not to approve any more homes in this area because it’s a fire trap and there’s only one Road out but there’s there’s a chance that the council might actually approve that because it has the word affordable attached to it this is not what needs to be done what we need to do is find those developers who are sincere about developing a hundred percent affordable housing and work at them we can waive

25:08

the permit fees we can help them look if they if they try to develop land that’s next to a wastewater infrastructure and and potable water infrastructure you know a place where it’s designed in the community plan to be there let’s honor those people who put the community plans together absolutely I mean a lot of work goes into making a community plan that’s right we’re gonna take a quick break here I’m with Albert Perez I’m Jason Schwartz we’re gonna honor our sponsors

25:42

and then we’re gonna come back and talk about the people that we want to honor who trying to solve some of our problems here we’ll be right back elevate your Thursday nights with ikkaku upstairs sponsored by Valley Isle marine center a free salon series featuring speakers screenings workshops and more this Thursday financial advisor Liz RC Nega will discuss the new retirement paradigm in which folks take a break from work gain some new skills and then return to their work in a different capacity

26:11

seating is limited so call eight seven one five five five four or visit ikkaku org slash salons to reserve your seats for ikkaku upstairs the neutral zone with me Jason Schwartz would like to thank Maui Arts and Music Association three makers Foundation of Maui for their support since 1991 hundreds of television shows and their maui arts and music dot-com website they have champion self-sustainability on Maui the neutral zone is heard live Mondays at 11 a.m. and replayed Saturday at 7 a.m. on kak u 88.5 FM your voice is

26:50

mouth my name is Hunter Hayes I know myself and I know my buzz warning signs one shot is about knowing my limits or not necessarily knowing my limits one of the signs that I’m starting to feel a little buzz is when I start solving not only my own problems but the entire world’s problems but I know I’m going out I know I’m gonna start with calling for a ride buzzed driving is drunk driving a message brought to you by nitsa and the Ad Council Aloha this is still best inviting you to join me

27:23

for my show on kak u 88.5 FM it’s off the record and I have a chance to speak with some of the most interesting people on and off the island so be sure to listen in every Tuesday and Thursday from 11 until noon dear on ke ke you the voice of Maui 88.5 FM hi I’m Jason Schwartz host of the neutral zone KNK u is a listener-supported station this means that all the great programs you hear like mine are sponsored by you as well as our underwriters if you would like to help keep the voice of Maui

28:01

looking loud and clear go to kak UF m dot org slash donate today and give and don’t miss them trolls on Mondays at 11 a.m. maybe 8.5 fm the voice of Maui well we are back I’m Jason Schwartz here at kak u 88.5 FM LP LP means low power you can find us on Facebook live you can also find us at kak you through Facebook live also ikkaku org has a button for us you can also find this on tune in which is an app on your phone that you can find us and you can find all of our shows at Maui neutral zone dot-com and all of

28:54

them up on YouTube besides so we are happy to be here as kak u and Maui television is trying to develop Maui radio so tell your friends there are all kinds of ways to find out what we’re doing here and as we grow I’m hoping that more and more of you will be doing things like call and 808 8 7 3 3 4 3 5 we don’t know how many people are listening live but we always dream so 8 7 3 3 4 3 5 is our phone number Albert thank you for coming back and my pleasure you know I am I don’t think of myself as a badger

29:42

but I’ve gotten really low tolerance when people that I know and love are suddenly finding themselves in the can’t afford to live on Maui category more and more I feel like I’m very fortunate I have a place to live through a program and I was on waiting lists and all kinds so I have housing but so many people of my age not that I’m old but 68 years young there are so many people that need housing would you call this just an opinion on emergency time do you think that’s an emergency

30:24

though we could do something radical like by declaring an emergency have different kind of temporary solutions have you if you think we’re there mmm well it’s a good question I’m inclined to say yes however given the people who have the emergency powers I’m not sure that they would take the right action that’s a really good point uh-huh yeah so I mean we could waive all of our our rules regarding cultural sites and just build over all the Evi I’m not talking about that yeah well that’s that’s what’s involved

31:10

and that’s why you know I think the mayor said it well in his he had to call him recently amateur what day it was maybe Friday or something anyway he was talking about housing and he said that there are lots of constraints and we need to be careful about them and I’m paraphrasing based on my memory obviously but he didn’t just say you know forget about all that stuff he said we we need to work it out I think I saw it yesterday so I thought it was yesterday but yeah it was a column about housing right where we mentioned

31:50

the 96 units they’re doing in a couple hundred here and that they’re coming but we got to do it within the constraints of what have to be done legally and appropriately right so I mean would it be a good idea to just say okay this is an emergency and the council is going to make this decision at least the affordable housing committee will make this decision tomorrow will it be a good idea to say this is an emergency we need housing right away so let’s put them in a fire trap with one Road out I don’t

32:24

think so well that’s a good reason to say no that’s a good reason to say no but if you’re talking about emergency powers that’s the kind of result that we can get well because we’re not we’re not engaging in the deliberative process that is the planning process that’s why it’s so valuable and that’s why it bothers me so much that it gets ignored and I think that this council should be looking at the community plan and saying you know the 201 H process allows us to make a

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decision in 45 days we could have a policy an internal policy that only allows that to happen where the community plan says yes that’s a great answer but that still could mean emergencies could happen but they have to follow the community plan so true would happen and that and that still wouldn’t prevent damage to our Eevee you know endangered species or whatever Eevee’s a bird by the way for those of you who don’t know right No Eevee is the the bones of our ancestors oh the bones of our aunt cui I say that

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or that you Eevee Oh Eevee okay yeah sorry so the bones of our ancestors yeah I you know we’ve been wrestling these kinds of issues here a long time why do you think that we haven’t seen the right combination of laws all over this time as well I have to stop you there we do have the laws in place they’re just ignored and not enforced so that’s that original thing I asked who is there to enforce these things nobody just a group that should be have people like yourself and your group we have an enforcement function

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within the county it’s it’s typically understaffed depending on the administration it gets more or less emphasis but if it hadn’t been for and I’m just gonna toot our horn a little bit if it hadn’t been for Maui tomorrow we would already have a mega mall in Kihei that violated the community plan we would have all the while Newtown 2,500 homes I wasn’t in the plan you know bad ideas the people proposing it shouldn’t they have looked at the plan before they proposed well so this gets back to why I

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left the planning department in the first place so that was 30 years ago and the first project I was handed I said well this project doesn’t meet the community plan and I was told well that’s just a guide no and so I said well okay if we’re gonna ignore it what is it guiding but that’s the way that it’s been going for a long long time and so that’s that’s why I quit the Planning Department and started Maui tomorrow along with Rick sands who you mentioned and Anthony Rankin also yeah

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so that’s really been our mantra is what what are we doing with these community plans that our citizens spend all this time hundreds of hours I mean why should they bother if it’s going to be ignored and he were here we are the West Maui community plan is going to the first meeting of the community plan advisory committees have been going to be convened in just a week or two and right now they’re proposing these two projects the maquila projects and the tool in each area in the fire trap that are not

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consistent with the current community plan what message does that send to the people who are contemplating spending all this time working on these plans that sounds a horrible message to everybody yeah I agree I’m wondering that happens often there’s no I guess like you said depends on who’s mayor and how much emphasis they put on the enforcement piece and how much they want people to adhere they’re planning their Planning Department right that’s right maybe maybe our mayor and council are

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listening let’s hope let’s hope and I’m sure you’re gonna be down there tomorrow there’s anything else that people can well let me stop you there though Jason I mean I’ve said this to them before but what really needs to happen is the people who agree with these statements that we’ve just made need to get in touch with the mayor and they need to get in touch with the council and tell them just how important it is that these community plans be followed yeah well that’s why I say sometimes people say to

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me I’m glad you’re speaking up for it that makes me feel good instead of them also speaking up for join us join us there’s power in numbers we can make change and the politicians will respond to us if we make our voices heard yeah well you’ve done an ad I think an admirable job like I said when I think of who’s going to create a landscape here that’s consistent with the needs of people that live here and that honor the land and the long term no matter who owns it whether it’s Hawaii or United

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States so however it all boils down needs to be done but with respect for people that are here and I really appreciate what you’ve done well Jason is certainly not just me we have an excellent board a volunteer board that really cares about Maui you care about the aina we have a lot of people who participate on our various committees and we have a long history of people both local residents and newcomers who have participated and helped Maui tomorrow to do what it’s done and and we certainly couldn’t have done it

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by ourselves well I I think Maui – I think of Maui tomorrow as a beacon you know it represents a lot of the things that many people hold close to their hearts and wanting to see Maui be sustainable and support its people and all the things that without you guys doing it and holding that flag in the wind we wouldn’t be where we are today and we have a lot more we can do I keep thinking about that emergency thing because I keep thinking that emergency can still adhere to a community plan I don’t think you know anything done

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that’s outside of responsible development is what I have in mind that at all but I just them I’m shocked I don’t know how they can build enough units I have sadly I’ve been over at the college and it makes me sad to see all these young people growing up knowing that most of them are planning on leaving here because there’s no way to support their living here both in work and the kind of work that’s being developed here is there any I’m looking for the doorway maybe you’re looking for

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it also the doorway into our government to really do something about this crisis I Drive down kamehameha have in you and I see islands of shopping carts with tarps over them that all the I want to say sleeping stuff and other things from so many homeless people that have kind of given up – there’s nowhere for them to go and I see many people that yes it’s illegal to sleep in your cars but people that are living and sleeping in their cars and trying to function I don’t know how to see that every day and not think there

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should be something more and I talked about a homeless there’s a Maui homeless Alliance of all kinds of agencies getting together and I guess independent people also but I don’t see anything they talk about housing first but talking about housing first and trying to accommodate the needs of many do you have you found there you have any people that have given any ideas on how to deal with this short term I want to call it emergency crisis it’s a become a lifestyle that people are developing

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that is their the way they’re gonna be living that’s like I’ve seen people that have been homeless here for so many years you know it’s become normalized in a lot of ways I do think based on what I read in the Maui news I do think that they’re starting to make a dent with the housing first [Music] as a planner my focus is on looking at trends and dealing with the trends and figuring out why we’re in this situation interestingly our Department of Housing and human concerns has a dual mandate

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one is dealing with the human concern side which I think deals with those people who are on the street and their interactions with the various agencies public housing but the I really feel like the Department of there should be a Department of Housing that’s split off that focuses on housing and knows exactly how many units are in the pipeline so that’s that’s one improvement I think we could make I don’t think I addressed your question I kind of go no I’m searching you know I

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keep thinking that that some of the developers that are here you know I couldn’t be given incentives or could be made aware of their can I don’t want to say responsibility but be the conscience of our island in our community to be the ones to step up you know I remember when they talk about Jesus said you know here’s a loan give the Romans what they want we got something else going on if the people that want to own it can get advantage tax wise and be able to make more money over time shouldn’t that be

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okay when we can get done the things that we might need to make our own more balanced and sustainable for its people well I think what you’re talking about is that we are relying on private developers to build affordable housing and I are not going to do that unless there’s money in it for them I mean you can be an altruistic developer but you still have to make money and pay your employees if you’re in business it has to be a business so I believe the last County public housing that was built was

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probably under the Lingle administration I know sorry it was prior to the Lingle administration so not to get political or anything but and I think Vince big oil I talked to Vince he told me that he was the housing director and during his tenure they built a thousand homes I believe that was in one four year period so I mean this is what we get when we take the County out of the business if you look at the market as solving all your problems the only way the market is gonna solve the problem is by making

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this another well what’s that that really rich place starts with an M I can’t think of it right now so Monte Carlo so that that’s what will happen if we just let the market solve this problem right so I looked up one day how many millionaires are there in the world and one source said that there are 12 million millionaires and the other said that there are 30 million millionaires millionaires in the world if each one of them wanted a home here none of us could compete with them for that home so what

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we have is a small island we have a problem that the market is not going to fix because if the market fixes it you and I are not going to live here none of us are gonna live here it’ll just be these millionaires who fly here and there’s be their second third fourth I know some people who have five homes around the world you know so that’s not the solution well we have is the market it’s called market failure so the market is failing to provide for public benefit sales benefit well that’s why I thought

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about passing laws or like you say making it preferential to someone that lives in their home and very high rate right so that’s one way and the other thing that we could do is we could you know if the county wanted to get creative they could go ahead designate some land either that they own or that they condemn and say we’re gonna condemn this land here is close to infrastructure now we’re gonna have a contest and these are all the criteria energy efficiency you know livability park space you know

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all this all this stuff we’re gonna have a competition between developers you guys figure out you know we’re gonna build a thousand units a year and then we are going to let people build these and we’re not going to build other things we’re gonna focus on building these truly affordable homes and we’re gonna get it done they solve the problem pretty much yeah so it’s and it’s not a new idea no that’s been done elsewhere right and we’ve I’ve even Vince it was like that

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when the thousand units a year probably now we couldn’t even double it so do you know of those kind of efforts that are going on right now not yet I keep I keep suggesting that to people but again the quickest thing that we can do is take those illegal vacation rentals Whole House vacation right I’m not talking about bed and breakfast I’m talking about when I need to rent a three bedroom home but it’s being rented out on Airbnb that is a home that’s not available to me as a renter right and

48:15

I’m competing against people who I mean those people that can make two or three times as much money renting it out through Airbnb as they could to me it’s just that it’s not illegal so if we crack down on that those homes are already built those homes don’t have to go through a permitting process and take four years to get get built or seven years to get built as soon as Honolulu passed that law immediately people are putting their homes up for sale that’s what we want to see that’s a quick way to take care of

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our housing crisis and the other thing is that if you’ve ever studied microeconomics you’d find that housing or that prices in general are set at the margin so you have someone who wants to buy and someone who wants to sell if all of a sudden there is a few more sellers it can have a big effect on prices absolutely well I guess the thing that I when I hear that is we’ve been talking about it for a long time we’re proposing in a long time maybe we just have to keep mentioning mentioning it publicly and

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finding getting more and more people to speak up and stand up and recommend it I don’t know what influence they can have except their vote I guess that’s not bad but in the meantime I’d like to think that people are listening to this show maybe we’ll send them a copy of special excerpts well we have a very receptive Council a couple of them are going to be on here that I plan to have here Alice Lee said she’d come on and shainsa Nancy and true have Tosh again maybe Victorino

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maybe we’ll prepare some questions and get some public input remember that number eight seven three three four three five someday I’m gonna see the phone ring and I’m gonna be wow we’re reaching people live you know Jason I guess I could have a voice for radio too you can you are say there’s always a future for you my friend I really think that you know it sounds like in my simple mind we’ve solved these problems it’s just a matter of continually to not you have to keep knocking on their door

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keep knocking and keep knocking and keep knocking hopefully we have a more receptive group it’s gonna be interesting tomorrow do you have any feeling for how the vote might go on that no I’m sorry I don’t I’m hopeful I’m hopeful that the council will see it putting so-called affordable housing in a firetrap is not the way to solve this problem especially in an area that’s short on water well I’m sure that this show is going to be repeated after the fact that it’ll be

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interesting to see where it’s at I hope that the noes prevail and like you say we can condemn a different piece of land and bring those solutions to some other place mm-hmm that make more sense what do you hope Maui tomorrow will be doing in the future have you set a longer-term course for what you’re looking at or do you deal with present time fires no we’re we’re always trying to be strategic because there’s no way that we with our small nonprofit I’m currently the only employee I think we’ve had as

52:09

much as two but there’s no way that our small nonprofit can fight every bad idea that’s out there so what we are trying to do is educate people about how they can be effective in not only the planning process but in the implementation process so and that it’s not quite political but you know if you want to have an effect and you have a choice then you can recognize that for example the Planning Commission that makes all the decisions in the shoreline area all of those people are appointed

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by the mayor and confirmed by the council so if you want the mayor to be appointing good people on the Planning Commission then your vote can make a difference and the confirmation side as well so your vote for mayor and council makes a difference on the shoreline anywhere our zoning changes the council chooses what goes forward and what doesn’t the community plans people on the community plan Advisory Committee they make their recommendation then it goes to the Planning Commission and then

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it goes to the council which has the final say so if we want to be involved then we have to show up either in testimony or showing up in person now one challenge is that if you’re working especially if you’re working two jobs you have time to go down to the council which typically meets during the day you can still contact them by phone by email and you can also make a donation to Maui tomorrow where they’re representing good planning and representing the aina and if it’s okay with you I’ll just tell

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people what our website is this Maui tomorrow dot org o RG and so we’re completely funded by private donations and so you know for those who can’t go we’re there to represent you but like you said so eloquently we can’t get all the issues everywhere it’s very important that people stand up and make themselves or that’s alright and also you know we do periodically have educational sessions where the public can come and learn how the government works learn how these decisions are made learn how to be

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effective with the time that they do have and making their voices heard so stay tuned we’ll be having those sessions periodically good good well I am amazed but we have gone an hour can you imagine because he happened for an hour I have had a terrific guest in now you Albert Perez enjoy tomorrow I have nothing but accolades for you over the years I even won it but I didn’t think you were president you were always present in my mind as the backbone of doing the right thing and very much respect you and very happy to have you

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join me here on show my holidays and may we have waves that go from here and continue I mean we can name names of so many in the environmental movement here on Maui that are all active and loud right now along with you but I have really appreciated you midnight it’s just been a long time of really appreciating that someone with knowledge is behind all the outspoken things that we hear in our community that sometimes can get poo-pooed by some of these groups but you’re the man thank you thank you Jason I hope everyone will

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join us here again and if you want to be in touch with Maui tomorrow please do and get anything you need through us we hope that we’ll see you next week it’s been a pleasure having you whoa [Music]