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Jason Schwartz w Alisha Shanti Chauhan 4 28 25 – environmental leader; Based on Maui, she builds community and stakeholder capacity on Water and Ocean restoration through her education program Ocean Story ACTS | Blue Champion Changemakers and impact consulting. She facilitated major local and national digital impact campaigns including both, ‘Defend the Deep’ for the Stop Deep Sea-Mining Law in Hawai`i
Summary
The interview with Alicia Shanti, an Indian-American environmentalist deeply connected with nature and water conservation, offers a comprehensive exploration of her journey, work, and vision for environmental sustainability. Raised across Africa and Canada in a family that valued nature and science, Alicia developed an early connection with ecosystems, which shaped her lifelong commitment to environmentalism. She blends art, music, and culture with environmental activism to engage communities creatively and holistically.
Her career began with significant work in Canada’s Arctic, supporting Inuit communities impacted by climate change and industrial mining activities. Alicia highlights the profound socioeconomic and ecological effects on indigenous lifestyles, particularly how changing snow textures affect hunting and subsistence practices. She connects local issues in remote Arctic communities to global environmental challenges, emphasizing the interconnectedness of ecosystems and human societies.
Since moving to Maui, Alicia has actively engaged in local environmental projects, including beach cleanups, wetland restorations, and campaigns against deep sea mining and other harmful practices. She stresses the importance of community involvement, indigenous knowledge, and collaborative efforts that merge traditional ecological wisdom with modern science and technology.
The discussion also touches on the challenges posed by current political climates, funding shortages, and corporate environmental responsibility. Alicia advocates for regenerative tourism and circular economies, encouraging individual and collective leadership to foster sustainable lifestyles. She sees Maui and the Hawaiian Islands as potential global models for sustainability by embracing indigenous practices such as the ahupuaʻa watershed management system, promoting food sovereignty, and safeguarding marine sanctuaries.
Throughout, Alicia maintains an optimistic yet urgent tone, underscoring that the current generation is pivotal in reversing environmental degradation. She calls for renewed respect for nature, personal responsibility, and innovative multi-disciplinary approaches to conservation, restoration, and climate adaptation. Alicia’s work and ethos inspire hope that through art, culture, science, and community action, humanity can harmonize with the natural world and secure a viable future.
Highlights
- [01:31] Introduction to Alicia Shanti’s dedication to water and environmentalism rooted in her multicultural upbringing.
- [09:25] ❄️ Early career work in the Arctic supporting Inuit communities affected by climate change and mining.
- [18:20] Emphasis on individual and community leadership in climate action, blending indigenous knowledge and modern science.
- [31:07] Local Maui initiatives including holistic beach cleanups and wetland restoration projects.
- [34:36] Successful campaign to stop deep sea mining in Hawaiian waters and advocacy for marine sanctuaries.
- [48:15] Discussion of regenerative tourism and circular economies as pathways to sustainable development.
- [55:29] Closing reminder of our intrinsic connection to nature and the ocean’s vital role in sustaining life.
Key Insights
- [01:31] Multicultural Roots Foster Deep Environmental Connection: Alicia’s upbringing across diverse ecosystems in Africa, Canada, and now Hawaii illustrates how early immersion in nature and family values around conservation build a lifelong environmental ethos. This diversity enriches her perspective, enabling her to connect global and local environmental issues meaningfully.
- [09:25] ❄️ Climate Change Impacts Indigenous Lifestyles in the Arctic: Alicia’s work with Inuit communities reveals how climate change is not only an environmental issue but a profound social and cultural disruption. Changes in snow consistency affect traditional hunting and trapping, forcing lifestyle shifts and threatening food sovereignty—highlighting the socioeconomic ripple effects of ecological degradation.
- [18:20] Individual and Community Action Are Crucial: Amid political and systemic inertia, Alicia stresses the power of grassroots leadership and lifestyle changes. The resurgence of indigenous knowledge and slow, sustainable living practices can catalyze broader environmental regeneration, demonstrating that localized actions can scale into global impacts.
- [31:07] Integrated, Holistic Environmental Projects Build Community Engagement: Alicia’s approach in Maui involves combining science education, cultural practices, music, and wellness activities like yoga to foster a holistic environmental ethic. This model creates inclusive spaces where diverse community members can participate in restoration and stewardship, making conservation accessible and enjoyable.
- [34:36] Advocacy and Policy Work Safeguard Natural Resources: Alicia’s leadership in campaigns against deep sea mining and for the designation of marine sanctuaries exemplifies the critical role of activism in protecting delicate ecosystems. These efforts showcase how community testimony and coalition-building influence environmental policy and regulatory protections.
- [48:15] Regenerative Tourism and Circular Economy Offer Sustainable Development Models: By encouraging tourists to engage in restoration projects and learn indigenous ecological wisdom, Alicia highlights a transformative approach to tourism that benefits both the environment and local communities. This model promotes sustainability through social enterprise and shared responsibility, aligning economic development with ecological health.
- [55:29] The Ocean as Earth’s Life Support System:Alicia reminds us that the ocean produces most of the oxygen we breathe and absorbs much of the planet’s pollution and carbon emissions. Protecting marine ecosystems is fundamental to global climate resilience and human survival, underscoring the interconnectedness of all life on Earth and the urgency of ocean conservation.
Extended Analysis
Alicia Shanti’s narrative is a powerful testament to how personal experience, cultural diversity, and interdisciplinary collaboration can drive meaningful environmental change. Her early life experiences, from African safaris to Canadian scientific communities, provide a rich foundation for understanding the complex relationships between humans and the environment. This background equips her to navigate the multifaceted challenges of climate change, pollution, and biodiversity loss with sensitivity and insight.
Her work in the Arctic encapsulates the urgent realities faced by indigenous peoples, who often bear the brunt of environmental disruption despite contributing least to its causes. The snow texture project and its socioeconomic impacts illustrate how climate change transcends environmental science, affecting cultural identity, food security, and community cohesion. These lessons resonate with many island and coastal communities worldwide, including Hawaii, where ecological and cultural preservation are tightly intertwined.
Alicia’s emphasis on blending arts, culture, and science is particularly innovative. By integrating creative expression with environmental activism, she lowers barriers to participation and nurtures emotional connections to nature. This holistic approach enhances community resilience and fosters a shared commitment to stewardship, essential for sustaining long-term conservation efforts.
Her advocacy work demonstrates the necessity of engaging with policy and legal frameworks to protect critical habitats. The success in passing legislation against deep sea mining and establishing marine sanctuaries underscores the power of grassroots mobilization backed by scientific and cultural authority. Yet, she remains realistic about ongoing political challenges, including executive orders that threaten protections, highlighting the continuous vigilance needed to defend environmental gains.
The discussion on regenerative tourism offers a hopeful vision for reconciling economic needs with ecological stewardship. Encouraging visitors to actively participate in restoration and education transforms tourism from a potentially extractive industry into a force for positive impact. Coupled with indigenous wisdom and circular economy principles, this model promises a sustainable pathway for island economies dependent on tourism.
Finally, Alicia’s reminder that the ocean is the planet’s life support system grounds the conversation in a fundamental truth. Protecting marine ecosystems is not just about preserving biodiversity but securing the very air we breathe and the water we drink. This perspective challenges us to rethink our relationship with nature from one of exploitation to one of reverence and reciprocity.
In conclusion, the interview encapsulates a broad yet deeply interconnected vision for environmentalism—one rooted in personal connection, cultural respect, scientific rigor, and communal action. Alicia Shanti’s work embodies the potential for transformative change driven by diverse disciplines and united by a shared commitment to mother nature and future generations.
Transcript
00:12
Good morning everyone. Aloha. Can you believe it’s the end of April 2025? Wow. Welcome to the neutral zone. I am your host Jason Schwarz. This is KKU 88.5 FM. The voice of Maui simalcast on Akaku Maui community media channel 55. You can go up to YouTube and look at Pound Dream Maui number one. You’ll find a lot of shows on mauyneutralzone.com. But you heard me talk. You on the radio don’t know I’m sitting here with a beautiful young woman who I would say to myself was more a model. But after I heard and got her,
00:56
there was a guest on our show just a couple of weeks ago named John. And John uh was talking to me and I thought, “Boy, I haven’t talked to him about his music.” And I bet he knows other people that would be important to interview. And the first name he came up with was Alicia Shanti. Alicia Shanti Khan. Is that right? Shhan. Shoan. Yes. Welcome to our show. Um, if I were to want to introduce you, I would have said, uh, this is a woman who is into water. And here on the west side, when I spoke to
01:31
John, he just said that you were absolutely dedicated and committed as an environmentalist to making a change with water. And I didn’t really know where it was going to go. But when I got your background, bear with me just a second. Now, I’m not going to read all this to you because we’d have the whole show. um newearflow.cotoryacts. That’s a current website. We’ll put it on the screen. But uh Alicia is Indian-American. She has cultivated her passion for nature during her formative years in Africa safari
02:08
lands and her family life in Canada, our neighbor to the north. I hope they still stay our neighbor. We don’t need another state up there, I don’t think. and um you’ve been involved in biology and writing and decades of environmental conservation and I was looking at your website and I saw friends of mine here on Maui involved with you already and and I just really thought what a great guest. How would you describe yourself? I mean this is goes on so much. Canadian climate change adaptation planning
02:41
toolkit for indigenous communities inuit and arctic w Arctic waters and uh clean water technologies in lake Ontario world whale festival northwestern Hawaiian Islands National Marine Sanctuary Advisory Council and on and on. How do you describe yourself? Uh well I just describe myself as a regular person that’s uh connected with mother nature and um mother ocean the waters you know I think all of us we have this inherent connection we are nature and um I have been so blessed to um during the time that I was raised um
03:30
my parents just really fostered that connection for me and my siblings. And we moved around a lot growing up. And uh everywhere we went, you know, we would be doing different types of activities out in nature for sure. And you know, just in reciprocity, uh giving back. So we would be composting before composting ever became cool in in North America, you know. Um I remember we didn’t use things like paper towels. We had our um daily napkins that we would save for our meals and and use up and
04:09
then just other things like seeing the wonders of nature and having all sorts of adventures. Um one of the places I got to grow up was in Africa. So we had a lot of beautiful adventures out there that really fostered the connection not only with you know the land and the waters but also the wildlife. So Wow. So your your young life was an adventure and all that you’re doing now is kind of coming out of just like you say a family life that really honored the land and things in nature. What kind of work did
04:47
your parents do or your father do or mother? Yeah. Related or no? At the time my parents were both teachers. My my dad a professor of analytical chemistry and environmental science and my mom a grade school teacher and um so you were they did a lot of awesome really in getting you all see that when you have a a show and you have to use your phone in the middle of it you get interrupted sometimes but that’s okay that just means we’re popular but they don’t know we’re on the air right now. Who are these guys? It’s
05:24
okay. So, you were really stimulated right from the get-go and you studied and how did you’ve been doing environmental work independently or how you’ve been doing it? Yeah. Um, talking about some of that right from the get-go. I was, you know, some of my first memories. I remember planting a lemon tree in one of our backyards and the feeling of moss under my fingertips and being by the waters and the river. Um, so all of that, just seeing the beauty of that at one point in my life starting to degrade and hearing about
06:02
things like acid rain. um and seeing the changes on a more minimal level when I was um you know kind of below my teens, but then more and more seeing things like the human impact and pollution, trash in the waters, garbage, all of that. So, uh, I would do a lot of cleanups and I loved to blend the arts and music with environmentalism to really make it conducive to the greater public and my friends and the neighborhood and the community as having like a softer touch point for people to get into these activities of
06:48
environmentalism to make it fun and beautiful and to co-create in beauty to be able to maintain the beauty of nature. So that essentially was for a long time I led a group called the Muse and we used to there was a collective of environmentalists and artists and musicians and we would put together these awesome events um on all the different types of artistic levels and bring in funding for environmental projects or do cleanups in the community. Um, was this Canada or Africa? So, this was where I was growing
07:28
up in Toronto after Africa. I see. And yeah. Wow. And in Africa as well, I definitely, you know, got to do some of those artistic environmental projects, but not as much on the scale of like where I was just learning to connect with nature and enjoying and giving back and and cultivating the things that we would grow in our backyard and um going to be out with the animals and the safari lands that my parents would take us, me and my siblings like every weekend essentially. And um you know I feel like at times I was talking to some
08:08
of these animals and I remember this one time this naan boumbe so um what is known as a crocodile over there and um in Swisilland at the time that’s you know the the language na nabe was staring at me from probably about 200 feet away by the river and there was there was just like this string that was kind of showing the boundary of where you were supposed to step or not. And I was just like, “Okay, you stay over there and I’ll stay over here and we respect each other.” And I think that’s,
08:46
you know, during these awesome safari encounters with some of these wildlife and animals, it’s just like growing that respect for nature. Um, really gave me all of that connection and inspiration to be able to do the work that I did later on in high school. Um, bridging the different disciplines, the arts, the music, the culture, and the environmental sciences. Um, and then in university as well and in my career. So, one of the first big jobs I had in my career as an environmentalist was up in
09:25
the Arctic of Canada. And so, I can talk a little bit about that as well if you like. I feel like I’m talking a lot here, but No, that’s why you’re here. Yeah. I’m I’m liking that you’re comfortable. Please continue. So up in the Arctic um it was about 23 24 years ago or so and to me well I’ll talk a little bit about it. So the work that I was doing there was supporting the Inuit of the Hierarchctic. I lived north of 60° latitude and so it was um there was a base community that I was representing
10:07
and the Inuit had some land claims along with some of the first nations groups there and um I was representing a number of like essentially through the joint secretariat we would take in all of the information and um bring in the consensus from the community and the Inuit and the sort of the different agencies and and represent the Inuit against things like oil and gas mining and diamond mining which was starting to become a burgeoning industry there. And so I would travel to the communities further north and um I was part of the
10:51
hunters and trappers committee there and we were noticing things like the snow was starting to change. So there was a project called the snow change project which um only recently last year has actually even though I’ve not been a part of it for so long last year it actually won the Goldman Prize which is a huge prize for an environmentalist. And so, um, the guy that founded that project had us looking at the texture of snow and the consistency of how the snow pack um would change the to leading to
11:29
socioeconomic um decline and impact. Essentially, the hunters and trappers could not go out on the land the way that they used to and build their igloos for one and stay out for days on end to get, you know, all of the things that they would hunt and trap like the caribou, the muskox or go out in the waters and get the seals and all that. So that lent them to having to go out in scados and there were, you know, just a lifestyle change was starting to happen for these people and the elders were trying to maintain, you know, the
12:09
the lifestyle that was more aligned with nature. And in one of the trials that I was representing the Inuit, it was uh super sad because the Inuit said, you know, we can’t eat diamonds. and they were crying at the at the trial at the stand and um it was like well what are what are we gonna do? We’re representing the community and these are smaller communities and the business and the money side of things and these huge corporations and companies were the ones that were able to make the sway in this
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whole um trial scenario. So they I used to drink pristine waters out of the lakes and the rivers there um up in a place called Uluktom um or Holman and the population there although it was only 500 people you know so after this diamond mine was starting to come in all the pollution and the drilling salts were not uh needed to be cleaned up. So it affected caribou migration. It affected their hunting of the caribou. It affected the cleanliness of the waters for drinking. So all of these things um definitely had a
13:29
socioeconomic domino effects all around. Yeah. You get that? You see that when they say what happens when you do something how it can become a large thing. It starts as a little P. Well, that’s a story that I think we all know now, you know, I mean, in my lifetime, when I was a little guy, and I remember them talking about, hey, we’re going to run into a population problem in the future, and there was a book that said, oh, there were books like 1984, an animal farm. 84, that’s already
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40, 50 years ago already. What are we doing here? And then we look at all the Silent Spring by Rachel Car. All these little openings for us to start getting awake about how important environment was. Well, we still had an environment to preserve. And it starts with that little thing. Who would us here sitting in Maui, Hawaii, think that someone affecting a tribe in the Arctic would have a global impact, a socioeconomic impact? And the fact is it does. I applaud you. How did that So that was a losing battle. Is it still going on?
14:48
They’re still fighting. I’m sure there they’re still fighting. There was a lot of good work that we did up there um through the joint secretariat and in the circumolar Arctic. Um, so the reason I bring up that example of one of my first big jobs in my career was because, you know, that was like 24 23 years ago or so. And it really blows my mind because we were talking about climate change and it was known back then like I was talking about how the snow texture was changing all of these
15:22
different um to me climate change encompasses the socioeconomic impacts as well. And so all of that was happening back then and it took so long for North America to start bringing in that um idea that climate change is a thing and that human impact is what’s creating and accelerating. So, um, all of this change and, um, yeah, so that’s kind of like a a small communities that were affected, but it’s very similar, you know, small remote communities and here we are on the Havian Islands, small remote
16:01
communities that are being affected by human impact from other places in the world. Um, I remember even telling people across Canada in the Canadian North when we because the Inuit live all across um, Canada as well in the north and so I got to work with them all the way over to Ottawa and the east coast side um, closer to the east coast side anyways. And so the the thing was that we would tell women that were pregnant not to be eating fish at that time. And now you can only imagine how many more toxins
16:39
and even plastics and all of that kind of thing are in the fish right now. So it’s like why has it taken us that long? And it’s it’s like been a long-standing fight. And a lot of conservationists and environmentalists know this. And you know, there’s people like Jean Michelle Kustoau and Jane Goodall and all these amazing elder um conservationists that you know, they say, you know, we just we don’t give up. We don’t give up. And it’s still I remember being in this room
17:10
with my family and listening to Dr. David Suzuki who I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of him but he’s an amazing Canadian environmentalist and he was saying that was actually 30 years ago at that time and I was still pretty young and listening to this lecture and there was only about 50 of us in the room so he wasn’t as well known but he has like this broadcast channel and all this work and a foundation that he’s um you can look him up at some point but he was telling us that long ago you know We
17:43
really only have this last drop of water. If we consider our home, if we liken it to a test tube and there’s water in a test tube, we’re at that last drop of water that we can fill with our impact and until we have to start and we’ve been at at that last drop of water for a while and we have been making progress in microcosms here and there, but then, you know, not making as much progress. And so now I think we’re coming to the Hawaiian Islands and you asked me about that and the way that I
18:20
see it now with the political climate um is that we’ve got to look at ourselves as individuals and look at our our connection with nature and our connection with the waters and the land and really see what we can do as leaders rather than looking up to you know other leaders and how they can make change. And there’s a burgeoning momentum for like this movement where individuals are banding with community and making a change in their own lifestyles, you know, like working with each other in uh
18:56
bringing indigenous knowledge back and bringing the slower ways of being in nature and being aligned with nature back. um maybe even things like reducing fossil fuel use through not using your car for a couple of days or planning your trips. But thinking about all these things that we can incorporate into our lifestyles and then really start to bridge build from those smaller microcosms and bridge with other microcosms of change to really expand. Um, so I still, this is essentially our last generation that we have to really
19:33
create a bigger impact because even if we stop doing everything that we ought to stop doing right now, all of that impact still needs to be taken care of. And so there’s things that we need to do to clean up and to absorb the carbon. And um, here on the islands, you know, we’re surrounded by the ocean. And that’s where I started working more with the waters and and the ocean. It’s like realizing the ocean is really absorbing a lot of the impact and that’s where we’re seeing a lot of the climate change
20:07
happening in the world because the ocean is what covers most of our planet and gets so much of our toxic whatever we are doing it goes into the ocean. I know, you know, as I’m sitting here, I I actually I’m thinking of my own mission statement of my organization, art, music, culture, environment. You guys remember that, right? You know, our name was Maui Arts and Music Association. People wondered, why are you combining art and music and environment and tourism? Because I see it all together.
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If we look at all the pieces, it all works perfectly. So, just like you said about creating an example and then like beacons of light around the world, we turn on our switch and hopefully more and more people will see and embrace it in their own lives and in their own communities. And we, I want to say it, we save ourselves. It is. It takes that. It takes personal commitment. I can appreciate when you were a little kid, it must have been really funny to see the whole world not operating this way.
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I know that you were aware at such a young young age you have such a full career and hopefully ahead of you. I’m I’m old. I’m thinking this is somebody that could fill a role to run an organization that sees that it all fits together. Do you have a lot of people in the world you’ve seen like you or they have any influence? What are you seeing out there in the world? I I’m meaning that in that you probably been to many different conferences and all kinds of countries and all kinds of people and
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you recognize that the United States has been sitting on its all this time and really thinking their economics is independent from environmental stuff and now with our current presidency and the way they’ve been making actions that have been you talked about things that you did you were doing a research in the field that I don’t know who funded you but I imagine much of it or some of it surely was the government and granting organizations through universities and now we’re Here in the United States,
22:30
we’re being suddenly shocked with monies not being available to continue research to support the truth of what’s happening about our environment at a time when it couldn’t be more important for people to hear and know about it. Yeah. So that’s where you know us coming together and looking looking at these alternative funding sources and seeing like I love what you’re talking about with your idea for your organization to bring in um it’s very similar to the platform that I
23:05
have right now ocean story acts bringing in the ACT stands for arts culture traditional ecological knowledge and science tech so we’re bringing in all the disciplines we’re bringing in everybody It doesn’t matter who you are and what your passions are. Um there’s things you can do out of your passions that are going to be able to support this conservation, restoration, regenerative um movement for mother nature and the waters and the land. And yeah, and that’s what I was so happy to connect
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with you and realize that you have a very similar thought pattern where you know we’re doing things from an enjoyable mode. We’re bringing in all the disciplines and you know like I have had the pleasure of leading and um curating festivals uh with the arts and music and also bringing in the science speakers and making it fun for everybody. So, I think there’s that, but also looking to our private investors and seeing, you know, where they can um help us make a change. Like some of them
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don’t know what to do with that the money that they have to to make a change and make an impact and they’re looking to do something good in the world and give back. Um, and that’s something that we can definitely call on our friends who are more financially wealthy and and see where they can also come in and learn on some of these projects and enjoy as well and change their lifestyles and be um some of the champions and superstars. So yeah, I think all of us coming together, you know, bringing the
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different platforms to together, having the conversations and collaborating and also um really looking at our the way that things used to be when they were more aligned with nature because uh I was talking with you a few days ago over the phone and I think I’d mentioned that a really big part of it, at least for me, that’s always been because I’ve been able to be lucky enough to work with indigenous peoples and um I guess essentially I’ve been seeing how connected how inherently
25:28
connected they are with nature to the point where there’s such a knowing of you know what are the practices that we need to do to make a change how do we go about doing that and even when I was up in the Arctic bringing the scientists together with some of these indigenous elders and creating these conferences where we would have the conversations and then go out and take the action where we would blend the old with the new. And essentially the reason for that is because we are nature. And for us to
26:04
connect back in and align better with nature, we need to look at the ways and the practices that we used to have that aligned better with nature. Not to say that science and tech aren’t going to be helping us um with some of these projects and you know issues. Like I was saying, it takes the best of the old traditional knowledge and the new and come out with something even greater. You know, we’re not enemies. We just haven’t found out how we best work together because no one wins if we don’t solve
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some of these problems. And you know, if we were down to the last speck of water decades ago, we have to be on part of a speck now because things are accelerating in such a way that, you know, that deadline I you’ve heard it, I’m sure, we’re at uh 30 seconds or 10 seconds to go before the clock strikes 12 on the whole planet. you know, changing our civilization into one of the past civilization. You know, we are I don’t have to tell you. I don’t have to tell you. That’s why you guys are tuning in
27:19
to the show, huh? You know, as I’m listening, it invigorates me to know that you’re right on. I mean, you sound like you’re talking my language, you know, to the point where I’m hoping that our audience recognizes how available nature is. We’re here on Maui. We are so blessed here on Maui. But I’ve been here I I’m 74. 37 years ago when I moved here and local people said to me, “Oh, you should have seen Maui before it was spoiled.” I didn’t really understand
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that. I sure understand it now. And I’ve been working here a long long time to try to bring it to the light. I’m so glad the other organizations see what I’m hoping to do is spotlight other organizations doing things under this big banner like a branding, you know, mama and papa. Papa was participatory action patrons of the arts when we were Maui Arts and Music Association. But now we’ve used our name, the Dream Makers Foundation, because it’s Mama and Papa. Except now we say people aligned in
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positive action. Mama and Papa. Promote art, music, and culture. Educate people about environmental solutions. Be an example here in paradise. Let’s regain it. Elevate the Hawaiian culture, both just traditional ways and things that work along with new things. I don’t know. Have you ever heard of a guy named Michael Smith in the Earth Power Lodge up in Montana? I have not. Unless this is the Michael that built the spa uh the Earth ships. Well, no, that’s not. But this Michael, there’s a movie called The Need to Grow.
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and uh he was taking and still is blue green algae and processing it and creating a biofuel they put into a jet engine. They take green waste and create biochar. And as they’re heating it up inside their process without oxygen, they’re siphoning off phytouticals to now where they grow, I would call it like Jurassic Park. Super grow. There was a test done here in Maui in three months, 3,000% increase in the microbiome in the soil. So all the things when you ask Michael what’s the most important do you create power most
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important is putting carbon back into the earth we have to get the carbon back into the earth all these things tie together so well so when you think about what you want to do with all the money we can tell all the people that have a lot of money what kind of things that will be socio and economically um coming into being in this world and I just have nothing but praise for all that you’re doing. I mean, your level I can see it even as you’re sharing your level of commitment. Have you done
30:27
projects here locally? I know you have. Yes. So, give it give the people here some idea already. Yeah. So, I have been here only about three and a half years and um I’ve had the chance to do some things that are not as um well, some of them are have been tangible in the ground implementation work for the waters. And some of them have been more communicative and just um educational and um one of the things that I did when I first came here uh I was working on a very small contract and what I wanted to
31:07
do something of my own and I approached an elder um and asked if I could do these holistic beach cleanups. So I was running those on the Northshore beaches once a week when I first started. And then it got to being about once a month. And so I would gather the community and gather them in circle for a bit of a science conservation talk. Um have guest musicians including myself being a musician at times for the circle. Um we would have a potluck at the end. We would have always like a body practice
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like yoga or chiang. And so there were amazing people in the community that supported this voluntarily. And we would go out and clean up some of the beaches as well. But it was a whole holistic sort of practice where we’re looking at our lifesty lifestyle and all of the different facets and encouraging and inspiring people with, you know, those different modalities, the the music, the arts and and looking at their own eating practices and um lifestyle change and uh healing practices for their body. So
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there was that. Um, I’ve had the chance to work on some contracts where I got to, um, help with restoration of the wetlands. And so we’re planting wetland plants like a kuli kulie and um yeah just creating the flow of waters um in Kihei um that is more aligned with the way that it’s supposed to be because there’s a lot of development there and so um when it rains it would flood and the sedimentation would go out to the coral. So, you know, really taking care of those lands before um the waters
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would travel out further to the ocean and having these different types of plants um growing would also absorb and filter and clean the waters before they go out to the ocean. Um as I mentioned, I got to work on a couple of festivals here. One of them is the World Whale Film Festival that I co-directed. Um, so I there was an online platform as well as an in-person. It’s uh due to funding. It’s not happening these days, but uh I have some plans to start um a different type of festival through
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Ocean Story Acts and essentially working with elders. So last year um some amazing um initiatives I got to be part of. I created um co-created these campaigns and one of them was a campaign of my own. So essentially um we were trying to get the stop deep sea mining law passed um for Havina waters and uh I essentially rallied hard for that and campaigning along with other organizations on the continent as well as a little bit um globally with elders here on the islands and the community and really getting people to put forth
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the testimony that was needed. and you know there’s a lot that can happen through rallying and petitioning and testimonies as well. Um so bringing the community together online to get that bill passed and then the law passed. And so uh that happened near the end of last year and that was wonderful. And um and then as well actually with one of your friends Kahu Alani. done a few projects with her and one of them was having her be the face of my um campaign to help designate Papahana Moa are northwestern Havayan Islands as a
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sanctuary. And so essentially at the time it was just a national marine monument. And so I created a short film with her and you know wrote the script and all of that and put it out there and had people across the continent as well provide their comments and testimony and um you know obviously there were other campaigns running simultaneously but I did my part and I um got a little bit rewarded because now I’m on the advisory council for the Papahana Moa National Marine Sanctuary. So it got formally
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designated in March of this year which uh we were holding our breath and we were so happy and relieved because unfortunately you know there’s been some executive orders in the last couple of weeks even um one actually looking at commercial fishing on some of the um national marine monuments. So, one of them is the Pacific Remote Islands National Marine Monument because it’s a lower designation. So, um there’s, you know, all sorts of um conservationists standing up through, you know, we’re starting with our
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petitions all all over again. And so, we don’t want that to happen in these pristine areas. And then that to me is so outrageous just hearing that. Yeah. That should make every one of you stand on your hind legs. And then one of the things that unfortunately happened was an executive order to um look at deep sea mining even not only in our national waters and the Claren Clipperton zone, but as well international waters. So, we’ll see how all of these politics pan out. Um, but you know, it’s a it’s a
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little bit like daunting, but at the same time, you know, there’s a lot of us that are not giving up. I was gonna say, what choice do we have? Yeah. Right. We don’t want that. So, we have to fight. Yeah. That’s outrageous though. I mean, yeah. It’s just all been recently, you know, this wave of activity that you really rec I guess more people than voted for our current president now and many of them who voted for him are recognizing these steps are so outrageous. I bet if we had election
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today, we’d have some kind of different outcome, but here we are. How do you undo what’s already been done? I I’m not sure. when you stop a flow of science and knowledge and sharing and support and you now you want to kind of replace it, I I don’t know what it’s going to do. But I sure I’m glad there are leaders like yourself who you’re very approachable and you’re very knowledgeable and obviously have had some success and in whatever little way we can help or big way we can help, we
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want to help. So that’s really important. Um, here on Maui, when I think about our future on Maui, um, water, I’m just gonna throw it out. Have you checked out the harbor water in Lina and have any kind of report on what’s going on on the west? I guess it could be everywhere because we were talking about coral problems in ‘ 89 and I got here in ‘ 88. We’re still talking about the same stuff. It’s just unbelievable. What’s going on now after the fire with the water in the west
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side? Yeah. So, I mean, it’s been deemed, you know, um clean enough to enter and have our recreational activities. There’s been some interesting um situations that have occurred with vessels like uh marine vessels like boats that have actually um disturbed uh Honolulua Bay corals. unfortunately. And so there’s, you know, been an issue even again at Honolulua Bay with uh the um human waste when the portaotties were taken out. So there’s all sorts of different types of issues. There’s
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runoff that is still going um into the waters from Ukumah. I was working with an elder there and we were actually literally moving the rocks to change the flow of water and to try and help that situation. So um some of the colder stream water can come through to also help the growth of the seaweed and you know that will also reciprocate and help the health of the corals. Have you seen any kind of impact from the the temporary storage of the toxic soil from Lina? Anything there? Um, not yet. No, I
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think that they’ve uh closed that up pretty tight and so in terms of the toxic soil initially, yes, there was because water flows and there it took them a long time and so the EPA was there. Um there was beautiful protocol that happened every morning and evening that they would um stand in circle with the elders and and take care of the top layer. But um in terms of putting that away now, it’s not, you know, blowing around or flowing into the waters now. But it was obviously when I remember when it was up
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pretty high and they had a 3in rainfall and everyone was concerned about overflow, but no more. It’s been taken. It’s under control now. It’s it’s under control at the moment. And um yeah, I had not gone into the waters even living on the Northshore for a long time because I know that you know everything flows in the waters and even when I did months and months after um and so much I wanted to go into the ocean, but I would see some of the debris like we would see the debris over
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on the other Maui Nui Islands as well. So yeah, definitely um there’s been an impact and looking even to the fires that had happened in Los Angeles, there’s an impact and I saw photos of the sedimentation that’s even a few days ago I was checking that out and it’s still occurring. And unfortunately, um, Southern California has another issue happening where there’s, um, an algae bloom that’s affecting the marine life. Uh, the seals and the citations, the dolphins are washing up on shore. And so
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that’s a little bit separate than the fire toxicity, but there’s still toxicity. And so, you know, all of these different cycles of pollution will feed each other and create issues. So, did we not hear about Fukushima because it’s been stopped or because they just stopped talking about it? So, I actually was working on a campaign for helping to stop the release of the Fukushima stored waters a couple years ago, and I worked with a group up in San Francisco, and uh we had done a bit of a rallying and
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campaigning for that um through artivism. And unfortunately they there was a company that decided to release the waters that they had been storing with the radioactive um material in those waters um into the greater ocean. And so you know I think scientists kind of look at the issues and try and triage what is the bigger one happening at this moment. So in their minds um there were certain levels of radioactive material that are allowable and so you know that’s kind of not being talked about
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because they’re change the rules allowable. Is that what’s happening? Sort of like the smog problem. I got to LA in 1973 when you were a gleam in someone’s eye and uh they were saying, “Well, we’ve been given a two-year reprieve to clean up the air in Los Angeles. Push it back. Push it back. Push it back.” Same here. Because I can’t imagine that any can of anything from the ocean isn’t radioactive. And we’re not we don’t seem to we keep changing all the uh what is
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safe by what fits into our economic model maybe. I mean I’m don’t like to say that but I’m afraid I feel that. Well, you know the economic model speaks volumes um unfortunately. And so we’re still entrenched in this capitalistic society and um it’s a huge part of our civil civilization is the way we um measure and value the world for the most part and you know it is unfortunate but that that mentality is start starting to shift as we bring indigenous wisdom and indigenous science to the forefront and
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amplify the voices of our elders. you know, we’re starting to see where um capitalism is not serving us as a system as much anymore and the economic models um are starting to shift again in microcosms in different places. But um we’ve definitely got to have a hu a lot greater push um for these regenerative um natural naturally aligned models that serve us in the way we were meant to be as humans and serve our greater humanity. Well, I hope to be with your help, a lot of help doing it here. I mean people from all over the
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world coming to Maui. Maui could use a shot in the arm economically but we also we need to be self sustainable and more forever. So that’s why I like to do it all and right from here. So you’re here only a couple of years. I hope you’ll stay another 50. I hope. Thank you. I and and because I can see that you’re the kind of leader your delivery is very very available. I want to say bioavailable. You’re very available and what you say is clearly understood in such simple not simplistic but simple
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terms that you kind of can’t miss. Have you had some good response here recently from from um the private I always wonder the the private money’s here when we go private here we can go to oh gosh Larry Page uh the guys that own Google and Amazon guy and now we can tell them it’s in their neighborhood right yeah and you know honestly some of these bigger corporations here on Maui are also looking to change their optics and we’ve had this term corporate sustainable respons uh responsibility
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CSR it’s been thrown around for a long time and so you know it it looks good on these companies to set aside a portion of their funds towards uh giving back to the environmental causes and uh definitely here on Maui you know some of those corporations include the resorts and um you know even smaller ones like restaurants and so there’s been some good response for sure. There’s um been some amazing organizations that have been working to create programs at the resorts as well. And uh you know, the Ritz Carlton is
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also um one of those that’s you know, a bigger resort, but it’s it’s always had um the Jean Michichelle Kustoau’s uh ocean futures society and ocean ambassadors. And so what I’m um kind of bringing us to around to the topic of is uh regenerative tourism. So when I was out recently with the crant program and they have been doing dune restoration um in places across in at beaches across the island. There were um tourists that had come through at one of these events and they were from you know most of them
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were from Europe. they had come through and they were like, “Yeah, you know, our company actually is pays us as part of our um job perks. They pay us uh three days out of our vacation to go and mandatorily have to um do some sort of a restoration project, be it a beach cleanup or a dune restoration.” And so regenerative tourism has uh picked up a lot in the world as a um a new type of uh commercial sort of social impact um social enterprise type of a business and I think that that’s something that we
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can draw upon for some of these tourists that come you know how thinking about how they can how you can give back and we encourage the tourists to come like obviously tourism is part of our economy and that’s been a a bit slower since not only the pandemic but the fires. But um if the tourists are coming through and learning about the indigenous science and the wisdom and as well giving back through these um res restoration and regenerative events then you know they can take some of that knowledge back to
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where they are and start up their own cleanups. And so I think it’s a beautiful cycle and it’s part of a way of getting us into a circular economy way of thinking. And you think like me I I’m really I’m telling you it feels like okay I can I can retire someday. There’s new breath in this movement. It isn’t parked. There are people around like you. Wow. Yeah. Thank you. very very very I know that sounds like a funny thing to say but you really said it here you know you’re talking about the same
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kind of stuff but maybe you can get through to these doors here maybe they think I was a little political when I was green I was green you don’t know but in 1994 I ran for mayor of Maui against couple of people that people around here know for a long time and then I switched to council all kinds of stuff But they thought I was radical. I was just talking the same kind of language we’re talking now. And I was pigeonholed by I can’t even It just is hard to believe because 30 years later, there’s a
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statue. I had booked this Maui Arts and Cultural Center is opening New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day to do a global awareness of this new organization called the Maui Arts and Music Association. art, music, energy, environment, tourism, just like we’re talking here. But I got marginalized by politics. But it isn’t too late. And uh not only isn’t too late, we are now God’s help just in time. Before we were ahead of our time. Now, the message is you you can hardly take a breath
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without noticing that something could be better. And I’m glad to know I’d like to see more young people visibly involved. And I don’t know how to describe young people. If you’re 50 out there, you’re young people to me. I want to see people involved where it isn’t a matter of we need to change our habits. Like here, I always felt like the Hawaiian culture always had this very rooted basic love and respect of the land that if we just would embrace that from the Hawaiian culture and move it in, integrate it. We
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talk about it and but hasn’t really happened. So, I’m just so thankful that you’re still here and breathing. when I am long gone and I’m not going so quick by the way when I’m long gone I’m it’s nice to know there are leaders like you know thank you and yes the the au pua system is an ingenious system and uh it’s known as the looking at things from a watershed perspective as opposed to um you know a politically or um geographic line that we’re placing between towns
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you know where uh the water flows from mountain to ocean and all of the bios within and the cultural systems within are respected and um I’m sure the listeners know all about you know the tarot patches and the fish ponds and you know the um food sovereignty not only the food sovereignty but the way of utilizing the materials within each au pua for the Native Hawaiians had been and um still ha has been um in some places, you know, to utilize those materials for um clothing and all of the necessities of
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life. And right now on Maui, we’ve got a food sovereignty issue where 90% of our food is being imported. And even the food that the fish that we depend on um is being actually imported because there’s been like a hoarding of the fish and a decline in our fish populations. And I didn’t even get into talking too much about what happens all in the ocean there. But um yeah, so all of these things are looking at being changed and bringing in more of the co-governance if that’s possible and these aua system
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like thinking and practices in the ground would really help us and um help us to buy into to to live into that circular economy that I’m talking about that really would serve us as humanity. And I believe that Maui and the Hawaiian Islands and you know using these models can actually be uh become a model for small island states and coastal communities and the greater global communities. And so you may not realize it but we are only two minutes away from the end of the show. Okay. I hope you’ll come back. I
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hope that you will share more. This has been a really, really nice hour for me. I hope it’s been good for you. In our last minute and a half, what do you know you really want to make sure you don’t forget to say? Well, uh, if you’d like to get in touch with me, um, or look at some of the work that I’m doing, my website is newearflow.cotoryacts acts. And um you can also if you like Instagram follow me at oceantory acts. Um, one of the things I would love to remind us that we are so connected with,
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um, we’re inherently connected with nature and the waters and the land. And just remind us that, you know, most of our the oxygen that we breathe in our lifetimes, no matter where we live on the continent, landlocked, comes from the ocean and comes from the systems, the bios of the ocean. So in every breath that you take and in every drop of water that you drink, I would I mean not every time, but I would take some time every now and again to be grateful for those uh systems of mother nature that provide
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us everything we are and that keep us alive, our life support system. Isn’t that perfect? Because we are at the end of the show. Alicia Shant Alicia Shanti Shiahan, thank you for being here. I hope you’ll come again. and you’ve been a terrific guest and you’ve been a terrific audience and we’re going to let you go right now and we’ll see you next week. Have a good week everyone.
