Bodhi Be ; The DEATH Store

Please LIKE, COMMENT, SHARE & SUBSCRIBE… It Really Helps Our Channel.

Jason Schwartz welcomes BODHI BE, host of KAKU Radio show “DEATH TRACKS ” and Exec Director of DOORWAY INTO LIGHT and owner of The DEATH STORE in Haiku, Maui.” Conversations about Death, Life, and the pursuit of honoring the process and people, cultural attitudes and direction, Green funerals and breakthrough concepts of multi-use burial land/parks… and more.10-7-2019

Summary & Transcript Below…

“The Neutral Zone” with Jason Schwartz Featuring Bodhi Be — Doorway Into Light and The Death Store

[00:00 → 06:17] Introduction and Early Background of Bodhi Be

•  Jason Schwartz opens the show with acknowledgments to Maui Arts and Music Association and other community supporters, emphasizing the show’s focus on sustainability and culture on Maui.
• Bodhi V is introduced as a long-time Maui resident and community leader, recognized for his entrepreneurial efforts such as the Maui Juice Company and his work in promoting health and sustainability since the 1980s.
• The hosts reflect on their shared history, noting Bodhi’s early business ventures like alfalfa sprouts and the iconic “Ginger Blast” juice product.
• Bodhi discusses his age and vitality, expressing a desire to be a “cool old person” who inspires younger generations to embrace aging positively.
• They explore cultural perceptions of aging, noting a prevalent societal view that associates growing old with incompetence and invisibility, especially for women over 50.
• Bodhi critiques this cultural bias, highlighting the undervaluation of older adults’ wisdom, life experience, and slower but deeper competencies.
• The conversation touches on the lack of recognized elders in contemporary culture and the contrasting vibrancy of older women’s groups on Maui, emphasizing leadership roles women continue to hold.

[06:17 → 11:28] Cultural Reflections and the Role of Death Awareness

• Bodhi elaborates on how aging is framed by a business-driven culture valuing speed, quick thinking, and productivity over wisdom and presence.
• He discusses the unconscious collective grief men carry regarding the destructive impact of male-driven societal patterns.
• Jason and Bodhi acknowledge the challenge of reaching beyond “preaching to the choir,” aiming for wider community engagement through media and cultural projects.
• They recall the activism of the 1970s and 1980s, highlighting how their generation foresaw environmental and social crises, likening themselves to John the Baptist figures warning society.
• The conversation celebrates the impact of youth activists like Greta Thunberg as a hopeful sign of cultural awakening.
• Jason prompts Bodhi to discuss his work with death and dying, kicking off a profound dialogue on mortality, spirituality, and the “doorway into light.”

[11:28 → 18:32] Exploring Death, Soul, and Spirituality

• Bodhi explains multiple levels of understanding death and presence:
  1. The physical and energetic persistence of spoken words and sounds in space, creating a form of ongoing presence.
  2. The cycle of the body returning to the earth, nourishing new life.
  3. A spiritual vision where ancestors exist in a communal realm, offering support and prayer.
  4. The essence of unity or holiness (God), which transcends birth and death.
• He shares his view of the soul (or “soulness”) as an ongoing process or movement rather than a fixed entity.
• The ego is reframed not as something to eradicate but as the individual perspective within the unified whole, necessary for experiencing diversity and beauty.
• The purpose of creation is framed as generating diverse experiences to create beauty, highlighting interconnectedness rather than separation.
• Jason asks about practical doorways to this spiritual insight; Bodhi advocates embracing death awareness as the most powerful spiritual practice.

[18:32 → 25:53] Death Awareness as a Spiritual Practice and The Death Store

• Bodhi talks about how truly realizing the certainty of death, without knowing its timing, can radically shift how we live—creating a sense of “relaxed urgency.”
• Working with dying people and grieving families has deepened Bodhi’s own presence and appreciation for life.
• Death awareness shakes people from cultural denial and “hypnotic sleepwalk,” encouraging reflection on what matters most.
• The Death Store in Haiku is introduced as a community resource designed to demystify death and support people through curiosity, grief, and caregiving.
• The space is described as warm and welcoming, a hub for conversations about death without fear or taboo.
• Bodhi mentions workshops, presentations, and international death doula training held in Maui, supporting professionals and laypeople alike in cultivating compassionate end-of-life care.
• The training emphasizes confronting personal fears and beliefs about death to serve dying people effectively.

• 

[25:53 → 35:44] Transforming Death Care: Nonprofit Green Funeral Home and Conservation Burial Grounds

• Bodhi explains his transition from entrepreneurship to death care activism, motivated by encountering the profit-driven, impersonal funeral industry.
• He critiques the traditional funeral and cemetery industries for their environmental harm and high costs, highlighting toxic embalming chemicals, heavy metals, and land use issues.
• Since 2012, Bodhi has operated Hawaii’s only nonprofit and certified green funeral home, focusing on community service rather than sales.
• This approach can save families thousands of dollars and restores dignity and choice to end-of-life decisions.
• The next project is developing a nonprofit conservation green burial ground in Haiku that blends burial with a community park featuring walking trails, picnic areas, and natural landscaping.
• This model counters the traditional cemetery concept by allowing multi-use public space that honors the dead and nurtures the living.
• The burial ground will include provisions for low-cost or free burials for veterans, homeless people, and others, emphasizing inclusivity and social responsibility.
• The vision includes a training center for death doulas and caregivers, positioning Maui as a global hub for transformative death care education.

[35:44 → 43:31] Cultural and Environmental Reflections on Death and Society

• The hosts discuss the fading cultural connection to ancestors and the dead in Western society, contrasting it with indigenous Hawaiian and other traditions.
• High mobility in American life means people often lose touch with family burial sites and ancestral roots.
• Bodhi sees a growing national and international “death positive” movement, largely driven by baby boomers who are reshaping death and dying similarly to how they influenced food, medicine, and the environment.
• The baby boomer generation’s demographic impact is staggering, with a massive increase in daily births post-WWII leading to more deaths now and an increased awareness of mortality.
• They reflect poignantly on the environmental degradation continuing despite their generation’s earlier warnings and activism.
• Bodhi expresses sadness that many people are unwilling to adopt simpler, more sustainable lifestyles that could help reverse ecological damage.
• The discussion moves to modern societal addictions to comfort, convenience, and digital distractions, which hinder deeper awareness and engagement with important life questions.
• They quote a Tibetan teacher who calls this “Western laziness,” busying ourselves with trivialities instead of confronting the truly important issues like death.

[43:31 → 50:52] Embracing Death to Live Fully: Relationships and Legacy

• Bodhi emphasizes that death awareness can crack open awareness and presence in life, transforming relationships and priorities.
• The idea that “we are going to die, but we don’t know when” is highlighted as powerful, urging listeners to live with intention and resolve unfinished business.
• Most people, when faced with dying, focus on relationships — with others, with themselves, and with their community.
• Bodhi notes that people rarely regret not working more; they regret unresolved emotional matters and damaged relationships.
• Facing death often brings clarity on what kind of legacy one wants to leave — either a trail of love and respect or one of resentment and conflict.
• 
• The show encourages listeners to do this emotional and relational work long before a deathbed moment.
• The Death Store remains open for community support, and Bodhi welcomes visitors and engagement.

[50:52 → 56:03] Closing Reflections, Audience Engagement, and Call-In

• The show takes a brief call from a listener who challenges the fatalistic interpretation of death, emphasizing lifestyle’s role in longevity.
• Bodhi acknowledges the point, distinguishing between fatalism and conscious living.
• Jason closes by thanking Bodhi for his decades-long community contributions and encourages the audience to explore the death-positive resources available.
• Bodhi invites listeners to visit the Death Store, learn more at doorwayintolight.org, and consider death awareness as a path to deeper living.
• The show ends with mutual appreciation and an open invitation for future conversations on these essential topics.

Key Insights

• Death is a powerful spiritual doorway that can radically transform how we live.
• Cultural fear and denial of aging and death lead to invisibility and undervaluing of elders.
• The current funeral and burial industries are environmentally harmful and profit-driven, often exploiting vulnerable families.
• Nonprofit, community-based green funeral homes and conservation burial grounds offer sustainable, dignified alternatives.
• Relationships and emotional resolutions are the most common and meaningful concerns at the end of life.
• The baby boomer generation is poised to fundamentally change societal attitudes toward death and dying.
• Modern society’s addiction to comfort and distraction impedes deeper engagement with mortality.
• Maui serves as a pioneering community in death awareness, education, and sustainable end-of-life care.

Keywords

Death awareness, aging, elder invisibility, death positive movement, green funeral home, conservation burial, nonprofit funeral care, hospice, grief counseling, spiritual practice, death doulas, Maui community, baby boomers, cultural shift, environmental sustainability, legacy, relationships, soul, ego, unity, mindfulness, cultural denial, grief, end-of-life care.

FAQ

Q: What is the Death Store?
A: A community resource center in Haiku, Maui, offering education, support, and space for conversations about death, dying, and grief.

Q: What makes a green funeral home different?
A: It operates as a nonprofit, avoids toxic embalming, uses sustainable practices, and focuses on serving the community rather than profit.

Q: Why is death awareness important?
A: It helps people live with more presence, resolve relationships, and embrace life’s preciousness, fostering a “relaxed urgency.”

Q: How can people engage with this work?
A: By visiting the Death Store, participating in trainings, reflecting on their own mortality, and sharing these conversations with others.

Q: What are the environmental issues with traditional burial?
A: Use of toxic chemicals, heavy metals, non-biodegradable materials, and large land use that removes land from public and ecological cycles.

This comprehensive summary captures the depth and breadth of the conversation, highlighting Bodhi V’s unique blend of practical activism, spiritual insight, and community leadership in transforming cultural approaches to death and dying.

Transcript

00:00

the neutral zone with me Jason Schwartz would like to thank Maui Arts and Music Association tree makers Foundation of Maui for their support since 1991 the hundreds of television shows and their maui arts and music comm website they have champion self sustainability on Maui the neutral zone has earned live Mondays at 11 a.m. and replayed Saturday at 7 a.m. on kaku 88.5 FM your voice be with me today hang on we got a great show [Music] [Music] [Music] good morning everyone I am here with a wonderful man Bodhi Be your on Maui you

01:43

can hear us at 88.5 FM kaku your radio you can go to Facebook live and find us you can find us at Maui neutral zone calm the next day with all of our shows and all of our wonderful guests I’ve said this before but I have a great guest today a guest who I don’t want to give him too much build-up with a drum he’ll go ahead you’re the drum okay I’m gonna let him tell you his background and stuff but I know him since he was a young man on Maui like me I I was 37 when I came here and

02:19

I think almost instantly in 88 you were here already I got here in 1975 see what I mean you were here already and you were already someone I met immediately and I’m not sure exactly where it was but I was coming over to try to do good things and somehow you were in my path and you are doing good things already and you’ve done a lot since then many people off island may not know the name yet some may bode be from doorway into light the deaths tour and many things on Maui juice company I’m gonna let him

02:52

tell you his background and tell you a little about itself and we’ll see what he’s doing now and where he’s going and that’s where the show is gonna go and if you have any questions you can call us if you’re alive eight oh eight eight seven three three four three I love Kyle of colin’s you get many calls I wish I had more I left Collins on my show me too and we should say we’re gonna give something away if you call if you call in what are you gonna give away I’ll

03:18

give a free consultation and a life planning well that’s a really good thing okay what do I give a thousand dollar bill you have a thousand I think you should write the check anyway 1988 when you met me I had a bean sprout alfalfa sprout business and a Maui juice company you were already Maui juice company are you okay when the ginger blast come right around then let’s see married in 84 yeah ginger blast was happening in 1988 because I remember that was like a great thing to see on the Shelf there

03:57

was a lot of garbage and then your stuff people are still asking me when I’m going to make ginger blast again no still a great formula lemon honey fresh squeezed ginger and bee pollen I hope that everyone is doing that cuz that’s the a great formula and we don’t want to go off in too much about health benefits but let’s say how old do you know 114 look pretty good donor unbelievably 68 is that what month were you born September of 51 yeah I’m April 51 there’s a group of us

04:37

we’re youths I’m you thinning I can see that in you you’re really looking terrific I’m oh I’m also turning into a cool old person wow that’s that’s what I figured out finally what I wanted to be when I grow up a cool person I want to inspire young people to see some reason to get old oh I like that I like to think though that it’s the difficulty is how do you describe old I’ll tell you I figured it out because I meet too many people in our age bracket that don’t want to use that word but the

05:08

truth of the matter is we’re old people that they were born you can hear it in the language you’re brand-new until you’re born and then look they say what a beautiful baby it’s one day old so we’re old from the beginning see or one day old it’s simpler that way everybody’s old that’s great I was gonna say Adi the final that’s it that’s it right you’re born you’re old you’re one day old but what you said is the really most important you want to be somehow an

05:35

inspiration a leader you know we are the ones that we were on the shoulders of the people that came before us and we came and learned and we hope to leave a legacy well yeah and certainly just as you said for the younger generations to stand on our shoulders and take it further yeah and also like I said too many people now don’t don’t have resistance to seeing what old looks like and that’s unfortunate but understandable well you know I I wonder old to me is described in our media as approaching useless if

06:17

not already then much more described it’s embedded in our culture that you fail you become useless and incompetent is actually the the word that you hear most and and incompetent is a speaks to what we value as a culture because if we’re if we’re no longer competent and what they’re referring to in my view is we’re not competent on the skills that a cultured beam’s super valuable and that’s business and speed and brightness and you know the sharpness and skills of business that those are the skills and

06:52

clearly as as as people who’ve been turned from citizens into consumers we are a business culture that those are the skills that are most valued then when you can no longer be fast on your feet and think really quickly which is what happens as we age we snatch early slow down as everything else in nature does we become incompetent and the skills the skill sets that many of us acquire as becoming a becoming older people which may include life experience a wisdom insight a greater sense of time

07:25

aren’t considered valuable and so those skills are no vet not valued in this culture we become incompetent a useless as you said and invisible and especially women over 50 a lot of them are wounded by having become invisible in a culture that doesn’t even see them Wow I know wow and then you think about elders because you don’t automatically become a elder by turning into an old person and so that we’ve been basically impoverished in terms of having real elders in our culture and

07:59

even valued elders valued in our culture well and here on Maui that I know men’s groups but also women’s groups and women’s groups on Maui I think of thrived because of just that because we have a great deal of older women that still feel valuable and want their sisters to feel and experience it and not lose you know their their feeling that they’re part of this culture they are the leaders in our culture we have a lot of leaders on Maui we have a very you know very beautiful I know many of

08:38

them of course fortunate to know a number of them yeah I would say in general the women’s movement is way beyond the men’s movement yester immense groups meetings and there’s lots of good things happening I think there’s a collective conscious and unconscious grief that men have for what we’ve done to the world because when you look at the rape and pillage and destruction in the world the 99.9% of it has been done by men and that’s an unconscious unconscious grief that so many and shame

09:08

that so many of us are carrying that still hasn’t really brought been brought into the community conversation and I think that’s one reason why they the men’s movement is lagging yeah I think that’s a good assessment I am often you know because you and I are in this rich community of people I don’t know if we are talking what I say talking to ourselves or I hope to be reaching communities and people that this all the subjects we talk about are new and breakthrough areas do you think your

09:45

your radio audience is you’re basically preaching to the choir I think many times I’m preaching to the choir but I’ve been reaching out in such a way that I mix what I am hoping to see is that these shows become like Christmas lights we turn on a switch and it all is going to get Sene because where we are collected an image my same concept I was here on Maui I created the Maui Arts and Music Association you’ve been busy to promote visual art healing art music culture educate people about

10:17

environmental solutions and be a self sustainability model because because so many of us our age saw in the 70s and 80s and I speak about this on my show we saw we looked around and actually we got it that if the world continued as it was it would look like it does today and so many of us became the John the Baptist’s of hey folks we better wake up now and I’ve been holding that the John the Baptist roll awhile but you know I’m still there and I see before we were talking ahead of our time now this is

10:52

that the time is catching up with a 20/20 vision is now 20/20 it’s all coming into giant focus and our young people I hope our future leaders in some of them already leaders look at how this young girl from Greta Whedon has enlivened so many people – yeah we’re gonna have a million more of those gratis absolutely one in every school at least at least yeah Thank You Greta thank you and now and look at us we ain’t going quietly and we ain’t going I mean we’ll see about that well you know you call

11:28

let’s just for a moment death store because of doorway into line yes go together right we’re doing that we going are we going as a physical entity we’re changing as a being are we still present are we part of or are we uniquely separately something that’s quite on you want me to would you like me to respond to that issue yeah we could spend the rest of the show on that question okay and of course finding out who we actually are I say if you know who you are you know where you come from

12:05

and you know you’re going but I talk about it on different levels for example every apparently everything you say everything you speak it gets half as loud and F is loud and half is loud and half is loud but always it keeps getting half as loud right you met can you see that picture you say something and then it gets half as loud and it keeps going though and if everything keeps getting half is loud and then half is loud again and half is loud it’s still here in the space so in other words everything Jesus for example

12:38

ever might have said is still in the space everything anybody has said good and bad right anger joy we’ll talk about half-life of things totally from sound also from so sound actually never actually stops which is which if you bring that into a mindfulness practice and to think it makes you more aware of what you’re actually saying out loud because it stays in the space forever ok so that’s one level of your question all those things that are spoken so in a sense Jesus is still here because his

13:09

words are still reverberating in this in the space in front of us not on some cosmic level but in real time those sounds are still present they’re just getting half as loud in half as loud okay so that’s one level so here’s another level when I die hopefully my body becomes food for the organisms and life in the soil and and then enriches life in the soil either under the soil or as plants and nature to me which is beautiful because the earth has been feeding me for my whole life more than I even recognize and the

13:44

critters in the earth on and on and on so that’s one level on another level I think we go somewhere and we sit around with all our dead friends all our relatives all the people we love and care about and we maybe we sit around the campfire and we tell stories and then and then we look down on the earth and we go Jason is having a hard day today let’s pray for Jason and then we pray for Jason or we go somewhere in the world oh that person really needs our prayers and those people are now and

14:13

imagining those people now our ancestors and the people that loved us and came before us are praying for us right now that that’s real then on another level we are a pure essence itself there’s only the unity which I would call the holiness we could call it God but that pure ascent essence is that which is in us that never died and never was born and his present and throughout all of reality and we merge with that we become that now as far as soul I think I I’m sure I’m experiencing something called soul

14:49

miss or soul in something that’s happening rather than this thing soul that is live somewhere inside my body so I would say relate more to soul Nisour so Ling as an inked thing that’s moving and ongoing rather than this thing that has this particular thing that then maybe it reincarnates and began although I wouldn’t rule that out certainly when now we see people that are being born that have these memories of these past lifetimes etc etc etc and all the near-death experience stuff so

15:22

that all of those are the many levels to answer your question well so I’m gonna I gotcha so Ling like I said we could go on for an hour on that one no I liked so Ling and soul nest for a second that basically so how do you describe a soul is it its emotional the other emotions I don’t know is it it’s a beingness of doesn’t fit physical form I heard a great description of the soul an undivided portion of the whole now that’s kind of an oxymoron and right an undivided portion that’s like a piece

16:00

that’s like a pie I’d like to have an undivided portion of the whole right it’s kind of like the microcosm is the macrocosm that the entire unity is in that soul miss yes undivided portion of the whole I love that well is not what isn’t that unity yeah so then in that in that description there’s no separate thing in me that’s separate from anything else no other than that which moves through I could call it the ego but people tend to people tend to put a negative excuse me a negative

16:36

description on the ego oh we got to get rid of the ego I don’t see it that way the ego I think is here for us to it’s our it’s our it’s the way we see what’s happening and the way we are in fact individuals right it’s the identify ourselves from being in the unity right this is our perspective I think the creation or and the creator are not separate all right they’re not separate creator and creation embedded and that in that the purpose of creation in my view is to experience and make beauty so

17:11

to experience as many possible experiences as possible there needs to be all these different varieties of us to experience it the way we see it through our ears and eyes etc so we’ll get that I do I wonder why because I already got it I know what about the people that are listening to us and saying what what what do we do to give them a doorway into this light well no it’s perfect you know you know that in one sense on one level the work I’m engaged with with caring for dying people and educating and supporting and

17:52

counseling dying people and their families do a lot of counseling now with grief and grieving people and most everyone is grieving one thing or another or many things that it turns out that to consider a truly the our approaching death is is often the quickest way to shake us into wanting to reflect on these very questions we’re contemplating what dies who are we why are we here what’s most important and that and and that I think you know in terms of all the different spiritual traditions and practices you and I have

18:32

explored over the last 40 or 50 years I have found actually that a close relationship or a healthy relationship with our approaching death is actually I think the most powerful spiritual practice and path to shaking us out of what I call the cultural hypnotic sleepwalk you know I asked a hundred people how many of you know you’re gonna die and you don’t know when 100 people raise their hand and look at me like what a stupid but I think most people only know that in their heads they don’t really know it

19:02

as a living truth because when I look around it sure doesn’t look when it looked to me that people are acting like they know they’re gonna die and they don’t know when I think people would change how they live if they made that an embodied realized truth rather than oh yeah sure we’re all gonna die we don’t know when maybe even me often very often I’m not living in that what I call relaxed urgency right relaxed urgency but but I do see that engaging in the field and working in this field and

19:36

being in this work in world of death and aging dying and death I don’t procrastinate I’m not lazy anymore unless I want to be I’m really good at it if I want to be lazy my interpersonal relationships are becoming much more much more real and present and precious I’ve had enough experiences where I didn’t know that was the last time I was going to talk to somebody or see somebody and many people have that experience and so that’s become more real to me that I’m in front of somebody

20:07

that that’s become much more precious to me and and therefore I show up much more fully in the engagement so my life is changing around having death on my shoulder let’s say so you said what’s the doorway into an a deeper understanding of let’s say who we are and what’s going on I say death is that doorway so in our society to make it other than like you call it a cultural hypnotic sleep well Nauticus leap you can relate to that right so it’s totally I’m sure your listeners can yes and our

20:43

viewers we have viewers and you want viewers to do I love am I looking good on Facebook right now we want a report put comments at the bottom we take these shows and then we put them on TV because I want people to find our radio station and I also think that our television audience you know and and where it can go so it’s on YouTube yeah this is going to be up there smile that’s your camera right there you can spawn of those guys that’s now so we could go off in different subjects but I know that right now people have

21:20

asked me when they hear your name they think about the death store and they think about door anti-white and they also should know about your death tracks radio show what is it on Tuesdays 2:00 to 4:00 every Tuesday 2:00 to 4:00 to our show call-in show I read all kinds of things comment on things interview people there’s a lot going on in that show I play some great music on that show and then it’s rebroadcast 9:00 to 11:00 on Saturday mornings KEK you do you then put it up on the net on the web I don’t

21:51

I ought to somebody ought to help me do that yeah but let’s go to the death store because we can we come back to this thing about the question you asked me and I think there ought to be a death store actually for a long time I said there ought to be a death store next to every Starbucks in America and then I got a little more conservative and I thought every other Starbucks would be fine it’s a community educational resource center and store and it’s become a nexus for networking and people

22:21

who want who want to step out of the cultural avoidance aversion and denial and educate themselves or find some support or find some counsel and amazing conversations often happen out of the blue it’s a very warm welcoming space I’m I feel really proud of the space we created over in haiku and it’s everything from people who are just flat-out curious what’s the deaths tour and maybe they expect us all to be kind of in white makeup and black clothing and you know Halloween or whatever and

22:52

it’s none of that and then so curiosity and then there are people that want to step through the avoidance aversion and denial and find out what’s going on in there and with the possibility that they might die one day and then people come in somebody just died or somebody’s dying or somebody cares for someone who’s dying who’s looking for some support and counsel people are people come in who are grieving that’s that’s quite common and and the deaths tour has become known

23:21

now as a really a safe and inviting and welcoming place for that kind of level of conversation right and you have you’ve had a couple of conferences I don’t know what you call them well we’ve been doing presentations and workshops on Maui since 2006 and we at the University at their adventure program I do presentations at the senior centers and the Rotary clubs I’ve done a few of those and now we’re coming up on the fourth year of a yearly training we do international death doula training and

23:59

doctors and nurses and chaplains and ministers and social workers and hospice people and and regular folks who might take care of Grandma one day from around the world are coming to our trainings now and it’s five days in April and if you want to know more about that that’s on our website there way into light org and I’m very proud of that training I think it’s a stellar training now out there in terms of the spiritual emotional psychological and logistical care of dying people and but it’s a very

24:29

deep training because it pushes us to confront our own beliefs and concepts about dying in death and our own fears and our own grief and – in my view we’ve got a we’ve got to be really clean really clean and sharp with a giant and deep heart and a thinner and an open and mind free of beliefs and concepts to even walk into the home of a dying person if we want to be useful and again we come back to this solace because that’s happening as well there might be this – the story that’s playing out of

25:03

somebody dying and there’s also the transition and it’s a what do you call that now it’s the vision questing transitioning doorway for that soul this soul to move to move on and so the ability to connect with someone because oftentimes a dying person is seen by everybody around them the dying person and they are often incredibly delighted and relieved when someone sees them beyond the story as that soul doing the work of waking up and getting ready to leave the body I’m here with beau DB and Dorian to

25:53

light the death store I guess when I’ll call you that death tracks here on the radio we’re gonna take a break for our sponsors and all the supporters of our station and we’ll be back in just a little bit so hang on the neutral zone with me Jason Schwartz would like to sincerely thank David Bryant for his support David was founder and head of school at new Road School in Santa Monica California and as the board chair of the Ojai Foundation and on the board for brave new films the neutral zone is

26:25

heard live Mondays at 11:00 a.m. here on Kak you 88.5 FM the voice of maui and again on saturdays at 7:00 a.m. as well as on TV and on Maui neutral zone dot-com Aloha Maui Archy kalapa here asking you to help protect our local coral reefs by switching your sunscreen avoid sunscreens with oxybenzone and opt in oxy to chemicals that can harm or kill corals there are lots of safe for the reef choices get info at Maui reef shark / sunscreen brought to you with Aloha by Maui newly marine resource Council

27:06

Molly’s Visitors Bureau county of Maui Office of Economic Development and me are chickaletta Aloha Maui archie kalapa here asking you to help protect our local coral reefs by switching your sunscreen avoid sunscreens with oxybenzone and optin oxy to chemicals that can Harbor a few drink some taking a slow you’re not fooling behind getting pulled over for buzzed driving could cost you around $10,000 in fines legal fees and increased insurance rates nothing kills a buzz like getting pulled over for buzzed driving because

27:49

buzzed driving is drunk driving brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the Ad Council hey aku 88.5 FM is your Maui community station the voice of Maui features great local programming and from people like canary Margaret Baker NP and I have the nurse practitioner show on health wellness and managing your dis keys the nurse practitioner show to Maui hi I’m Jason Schwartz host of the neutral zone KNK U is a listener-supported station this means that all the great programs you hear

28:32

like mine is sponsored by you as well as our underwriters if you would like to help keep the voice of Maui looking loud and clear go to kak UF m dot org slash donate today and give and don’t miss the neutral zone Mondays at 11:00 a.m. on 88.5 FM voice of Maui that sounded like me doing a commercial and then me talking about donations and me there are other people here at this station lots of them we have Tony on the board and Renee all these different people and you you were here all the time but you are unique

29:10

being you know I’ve seen people on Maui that have been passive you’ve always been active you got your foot on the gas and and I’ve always appreciated that you’re more than talk your action and I feel a tremendous responsibility to somehow do what I can to make up for how much has been given to me and is being given to me well in my opinion doing a great job thank you and you’ll continue I hope to be here we’re talking about when we’re peaking in life I hope to take a peek at that in 20 years and see

29:47

how I’m doing you know I I think that we’re just living well you talk about all the things our side is doing where death is sidelined looking at the soul that stuff is sort of sidelined in our world and it’s a money driven business driven world but it doesn’t have to be not our world your world is so full of helping people now how did you get upon this subject where did it just suddenly seem like I think something grabbed me I think I think nineteen ninety seven or eight I was I’ve been at ordained

30:25

interfaith minister for 30-something years and I was I’ve been I’ve been counseling quite a bit but then people who were dying or grieving shortage started showing up and I didn’t feel qualified at all and decided I’ll become a hospice volunteer and get into the world and you know find out what that is and the hospice Maui I did their training in 2000 know a very powerful training then they started sending me into homes to sit with dying people I never sat in homes with dying people

30:54

it’s like going to the school of how do people die and that was fascinating to me and that powerful learning experience about how people were dying or refusing to die and as someone who’s had businesses as we said I had a juice company I had a sprout business I had a you kids camp for a while my business mind started going okay so what’s going on out there and so I did some research the funeral industry billion-dollar you know pay and it’s mostly two corporations that are starting to swallow up mom-and-pop

31:26

funeral zooms often employing quite toxic practices in the name of money then there’s the casket making the industries and again mega zillion dollars then there’s the cemetery industry again often utilizing toxic practices to make money to be more efficient and in fact the current cemetery model which is a fairly in history or a fairly recent model that there are private for-profit cemeteries originally you got buried in the backyard or along the trail when we were following the herd and then you were

31:59

buried in your backyard and then you may be buried in the church cemetery and then people didn’t have a church and then there were private cemetery it’s more or less that’s how it came about and now we’re looking at over a million acres in America that have been taken out of the public domain forever for one single purpose gravestones and burials and they’re filled basically with heavy metals tropical hardwoods millions of tons of concrete plastic and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of

32:29

thousands of gallons of toxic embalming fluid every year that’s an old model that doesn’t work it’s a toxic model so in fact that leads into discussion about that yeah well that actually leads into what we’re doing because one of the things we currently have been doing since 2012 is we operate Hawaii’s only nonprofit funeral home and it’s only certified green funeral home now as you were saying and I just spoke to money money money and so we’re trying to actually take this whole thing of end-of-life

33:01

care and death care and care of the dead back from big business this is well-meaning as those mom-and-pop funeral homes are if it’s a for-profit driven thing and they want to sell you something that they’re motivated to sell you something know how many stories have we all heard about people going into a funeral home after somebody died and usually those people are either grieving or they’re in shock what a terrible condition to make a business deal in and and how many people have left going I never thought

33:33

it was gonna cost me that much money I don’t even know what I signed up for blahdy blahdy blah and so we’re out we’re not only out – we are taking it back and and so a nonprofit funeral home our funeral home we’re not selling you anything which is trying to serve and make it work for you in fact there’s a woman now we’re gonna save her $5,000 on a not on a burial not a big you know not a big simple thing not an extravagant things but five thousand dollars somebody could save on a burial amazing

34:04

so again taking something back like you said out of the world of selling and making money into the world of community building work and sacred service so then that leads to now where now we’re about to buy 10 acres to develop a conservation green burial ground again same thing all nonprofit you know with the ability to bury people at either no-cost or low-cost you know I’d like to bury homeless people for free for example veterans for free for you for example you know to bring it back so

34:38

it’s not money driven which of course as you know locations or is it in other words in there the land is gonna be separately apportioned like you’re talking again forever yes it’ll become a yes yeah but but the what we’re not going to do what we’re not going to do is turn it into a piece of land that has one single purpose in the midst of this burial ground where we’ll plant plants and trees over graves we’re gonna create a community park walking trails picnic areas reflective ponds benches place for

35:12

people and pets really a community park in the midst of burials and plants and trees so it’s kind of we’ve been calling it bringing green burials to life in terms of with the meeting of the two so now we’re talking about instead of taking a piece of land out of the public domain for ever for one single purpose and we’re looking at creating a piece of land that we’re now keeping in the public domain forever for a number of purposes great where is this gonna be haiku haiku Maui

35:44

iku Maui people can come here from all over the world you know what people will come from all of the world because we’re also going to have a training center these April trainings that we do are the curriculum for the formation of the school we’re developing people will come to Maui to come to train with us and then go back to their communities and create again a community-based sacred service fantastic I know it’s big I think I think it has the potential to be a cultural game-changer really I do –

36:16

that’s fantastic we give lip service to the ancestors but for the most part they’re gone like we don’t have we don’t have a sense in this culture of the dead all right that was kind of written out of the story that there’s such thing as the dead and certainly we know the Hawaiian people are very connected and many indigenous peoples are very connected not only to the bones of their people but to their ancestors and recognize that the ancestors are very present and us and us predominantly

36:45

white folks that have lost that connection you know in America Americans move on the average of every five years so when you move every on the average of every five years we for most of us don’t know where our people are buried don’t have a relationship with what it means to go to the cemetery and be close to the bones of our people so now that I’m doing burials I see there’s something there yeah you say a lot of stuff and I like I don’t know where to begin to talk but you know and what you say just in

37:28

that I realized you know we move away from our parents and grandparents that are in these traditional cemeteries are more and more people looking for alternatives do you find that this is starting to catch on even separate from you I think the times the times catching up I’m you as you know I’m usually ahead of the curve and have suffered I think that times are catching up there’s a very much an a tional maybe more than a national death positive movement and and we could say to a large part the baby boomers are

38:04

going to transform death as pretty much we for everything we’ve touched from natural food to alternative medical treatments and medicines to gardening and permaculture and organic foods and organic agriculture that now the baby boomers who are all now in their 60s 70s and 80s are realized that not only are their parents starting to die but so are their friends and so now I’d say that to a large degree it’s the baby boomers that are now going to transform the death and dying piece I see well makes

38:38

good you know in 1945 before the baby boomer thing hit they were approximately 1,500 babies born in America every day okay 15 any within that nine months of the all those men coming home from the war it went from 1,500 babies a day to 10,000 babies a day that’s the definition of the baby boomer generation right so 1,500 to 10,000 so that means all these people that are in their 60s and 70s and 80s so if you go to one funeral a month pretty soon you might be going to four and five funerals a month

39:14

because of that jump staggering really it’s staggering it’s staggering so our world will I want to say a need to be we’re still creating more or young people so that we’re getting over popular I keep thinking what are we doing to this place why remember one we used to talk about we know about it I’m a 70s for sure what happened to us I mean what a great legacy to be changing the the industry about dying but while we’re living we’re destroying this place what’s the deal you know so many of us

39:52

saw something in the 60s and 70s but not enough of us stayed on what we saw and kept at it in spite of the story that was playing out of course that might have not changed it anyway because the the broken story that’s playing out has so much momentum and energy behind it that maybe there was no other way to avoid what we are now seeing in the world I don’t know the answer to that yeah well that’s a real thing isn’t it I’ll tell you what’s really sad to me given what is playing out in the world

40:26

and some people say it’s you know some scientists and many people say it’s too late we’ve done too much to turn the story around so that’s one one story that’s playing out it’s too late there’s nothing we can do it comes back to Tony Eaton can Dean like you know part I said the strategy people you know people I think most people now have an unconscious or conscious anxiety they love the predicament that we’re in and out of that comes a strategy for again conscious or unconscious well what do we

40:56

do with that information something you know it’s going to get worse if it’s going to get better it’s gonna get worse first like I cry for my grandchildren I probably won’t see the worst of how it’s going to play out so if one story is it’s too late there’s nothing we can do about it how do we how do we work with that and if the other story is it’s not too late we can we can make some radical changes now and turn the story around now I’ll tell you what I’m sad about the change is that I think

41:25

we would need to make to turn the story around in terms of everyone using a more living a more simple life that that uses less energy that consumes less that requires less that doesn’t need food shipped in from around the world those kind of things yeah simpler lives I’ll tell you what said about that for me the way it looks to me is that most people in America would not be willing to live that simple of a lifestyle at this point in fact I heard on the radio this morning about the Alexis thing now that

42:00

then yeah you can talk to in your house to play the radio and turn the lights on and so I’m saying I was Alexa from Amazon and now everybody knows that it’s actually listening and according what you’re seeing in the room and sending that data to Amazon and whoever else so now Amazon is making that very same thing that Alexa that you can wear on your finger and go go everywhere you want as it convenient comfort and whatever right even though we know that that’s recording and sending our information somewhere and

42:31

that most people will continue to choose those things because of their convenience and comfort and so we come back to that’s the part I am most sad about right now I don’t think people at least in this moment are willing to drop into a very simple close to the earth a lifestyle to help turn this around do you think that’s American problem I mean I not anymore now it’s now it’s a Chinese problem too everybody wants Michael Jordan sneakers or whatever it is right it’s no longer an American

42:59

problem that’s sad by itself that’s a because I always thought the world was kind of ahead of us on that train but until her awareness but you think we’re we were the model of the good life or what was supposedly the good life that everybody wants well I can’t ask those questions because we both know the answer people go for what is the easiest not always the best for comfort I’m unfortunately they the sleepwalking program is what kind of addiction to comfort well and of course you know as

43:31

well as I do that we’re probably the most advanced civilization in the history of humans to entertain and and create diversions for us to actually honestly feel what’s happening and see what’s happening that you know there’s Facebook there’s sex there’s drugs there’s food there’s you name it there’s porn there’s you name it there’s the Netflix binging and on and on and on and on everything you know it’s like so gill rinpoche a Tibetan a teacher says we

43:59

were so busy with all the important stuff that we don’t have time to deal with the really important stuff that’s powerful in fact he calls that western laziness that we’re so busy with all this important stuff we never get to what’s really important and then we come back to the death thing because that seems to shake people because we read about death all the time and we’re kind of jaded to the whole thing until somebody we know is dying or dies yeah and then something breaks through

44:25

and crack something in us that brings us to our senses really well you know I’m getting we got plenty of time that’s what they say that’s what they say they come to me I’m glad you’re doing what you’re doing Bodie and I’m glad I don’t need your services because I have plenty of time well maybe that’s the illusion that we think we have lots of time I’m talking about radios you know I know you are no I know I know you know what was a good line though it was a good line feeding

44:54

you up to have you set me up yeah there’s so much about the subject of death and dying and the after and the before like you said that’s why you have a two-hour show every week the thing that I find the most satisfying is that at least here on Maui I find that people are more and more aware and honoring although I haven’t seen it in the political results yet we see the movement and things are changing here and Maui could be an example you know I talked about being an example in art and

45:33

music and environment here we are I’m we really are a great place for the world to see a better way a more healthy balanced way and so I honor you’ve been a leader the whole time I’ve been here and I really have appreciated you you know thank you yeah what can we do as an audience to help share you a message well I think think too if you’re listening to this radio show to find something in what we’ve been talking about that rings true in a real way and sit with that and see where it wants to

46:15

sit in you and see if you want to do something about how that feels if we’ve said anything on this show that rings as something as real and true and cuts through all the noise that’s playing out wow that’s something that’s that’s powerful I get that I hear that but hearing it of course enough I want to bring it into my body so it’s a cellular thing so maybe I can put that to work for me because most people are feeling the shift and want a shift and maybe don’t know how but again

46:48

because we have so much built into these neural pathways and habituated patterns and something big has to help shake us out of that and like we were just talking about somebody close to us dying or dies or you getting a diagnosis is the thing that seems to quickest again shake us out and where do we get shaken into most often it’s this preciousness and fragility where there’s no room for a bull and so you know that that’s what I speak to and that’s what I’m working on eliminating any room for any of that

47:21

in my life and doing my best to help other people shake loose of all the noise and habituated patterns and nonsense running us and playing out well many of us want to make the shift there’s a new story so many of us can see that wants to birth and is birthing and we’re already parked many of us are participating in that news story and still all so caught in this old story again that has so much momentum so our audience can embrace the ideas that we’re sharing here something that I think it’ll naturally happen they’ll

47:58

pick something that is personal and then share this this show and your show with others we’re gonna die and we don’t know when is that useful information maybe that’s the most important information out there we’re gonna die we don’t know when and whether we use this information or not really will determine the kind of people we are the kind of relationships we have the way we take care of each other and the way we’re going to take care of each other when we’re dying we’re going to die and we don’t know

48:24

when is that true is that real when we say we don’t know when okay so if we’re gonna die and we don’t know when why would it be a surprise to you if you find out you’re dying tomorrow it wouldn’t be a surprise to you how would you live in the meantime well if you’re gonna die tomorrow or I’m gonna die tomorrow what would a good day to die look like what would you need to do to be ready to die tomorrow you know I sit with dying people I see what they go in wanting to complete their life in a

48:51

good way in resolve all the unfinished business that so many people have and most often it’s relationships that’s it that’s it relationships that’s it people don’t don’t lay on their dying bed wishing they’d spent more time at the office I don’t see that it’s so it’s often like you say most always relationships and not only relationships to other people but relationship to self and relationships it’s a community did I give something to the community or did I

49:21

just take up space you know did I develop a relationship with something bigger than my life you see that very often in people that have been dying most often most most oven you know the suffering see most people are no longer dying in pain thank God that’s true but that often leaves people to face their suffering and mode and all of us are leaving some kind of trail all right everything in our life there’s a trail behind us now and it’s either filled with joy and respect and honoring and

49:51

love and friendships or there’s potholes of you know anger and resentment envy you owe somebody money you don’t want to remember whatever it is and nose pop marks boy they seem to really show up when you’re on your deathbed and you hear about mom wants her son to fly 6,000 miles right away so she can say I’m so sorry I love you so much and sometimes the son gets there in time and sometimes he doesn’t you know etc etc just saying all these images they really come alive because they all really touch

50:25

so directly that’s what I tell people and that’s what I tell people right now on this radio show don’t wait until you’re on your dying bed to do that work it’s much easier to do that work when you’re not dying no question well I hope our audience is enjoying the conversations you say nobody called us well if they’ve been listening maybe they’re in shock I think well it’s the after you know they can come to you on the death track so they can come and find you that that’s still Saturday’s

50:52

10:00 to 2:00 or open every Saturday 10:00 to 2:00 and by appointment it’s 375 West quiaca Road in the PO Ella cannery love you to come see the store find us on Facebook Bodhi V deceased I’d love you to see the story I like to you know I’ve I’ve sent a bunch of people to you all the time Harry Newman the guy I love Harry the wonderful man I love Harry we stay in touch oh good good good he was transformed by our training and then I went to a speak at a conference in New York City and

51:24

there he was good yeah great guy he works and with his stories and him working with all kinds of people who were dying a great guy wonderful good friend now good I’m glad to hear that now we’ve got five minutes left and I could you know I would let you take a lot of time to talk and it has been comfortable because you have a lot to say and I’m happy to give the forum and to expose quote my different audience as it might be different than yours – you are very important subjects that you

51:56

talk about and just expose them to you very important than valuable guy who has been a giver into our community as long as I know you and I’m very happy to be your friend I um I think you know the questions that have come to me when I’m people that I said I’ll gonna do a thing with bow do everyone knows and loves you they what if the REO wants to know the rappy and a shroud and bring out into the ocean that’s a valid I think we’re the only funeral home in Hawaii that brings those ocean body burials

52:30

beautiful absolutely beautiful you know we’ve got a full of course every burial or cremation needs a permit from the state in addition to that I need a permit from the EPA the federal government there are requirements about how far out how deep I’ve got to make sure the body sinks it’s absolutely beautiful and then the burial by under a tree that another it’s not an option in Hawaii yet and that’s that’s actually what we’re moving towards now we’re gonna we’re going to make that an option

52:59

let’s does not be part of your your place where you can become a tree or a plant yeah well you know this has really been an interesting hour for me I when I think about death I don’t get all Psalm and amber and gloomy maybe it’s because I’ve been around death here in the island that I’ve you know getting more and more aware and it’s been a great place to live and it’s really been a great influence of everyone around me I know a lot of people that have been in your trainings and and I don’t know exactly

53:35

why I just haven’t been there yet but I’m hope to be I appreciate very much that you may you brought me to the show and to reach your audience and there’s a phone call now let’s see if I can figure out an answer do not answer yeah you press the button down here there’s a button down there next C with the red button is okay they need to turn the video up there you’re gonna turn your radio down hello there hello hi who’s this hi Jason yes this is Joel Goldfarb hey Joel oh hi you’re on the air with me

54:20

and Beau DB okay I just wanted to make a point excuse me I want to make a point about the sentence we know we’re gonna die but we don’t know when this is a misleading sentence in my opinion a misleading statement because although when we die it will be at a particular time in place and we don’t know it now I guess what it’s there is no particular time and place until after it happens what I’m trying to say is that you influenced by your lifestyle how long you’re gonna live you’re just talking about running

55:01

how easy it is to stay in shape and go run every time you run it’s independent of all other factors your increasing your longevity every time you brush your teeth believe it on these even use their studies Joel studies oh I’m sorry to be cutting you off we literally are running out of time on our show thank you I you we won’t point well-taken yes and that point is the point is fatalism don’t don’t or fatalism veganism is a false concept I don’t mean to talk to you off job you

55:37

can you can turn that off if you need to I’m just I’m sorry Joe I need to leave because we’re gonna be ending this show thank you for calling in we can talk more about it you understand what I don’t think we said anything about fatalist know we have about the Oh forty seconds so we’re gonna say goodbye to our audience now Joel just called and we give him more time to conversation but we’re at the end of the show bode thank you for joining me here it has been a pleasure I hope that you’ll come and

56:03

visit me again here on thanks so much for having me on the show you’re a wonderful man and there’s a little can be said doorway into light org the death store at 375 West kuya we are here the neutral zone we look forward to seeing you and hearing you next time thank you for joining us today [Music]