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M.A.M.A. PRESENTS… JASON VISITS THE BOO BOO ZOO. Jason Schwartz visits the BOO BOO ZOO, the East Maui Animal Refuge, a publicly supported non-profit agency run by SYLVAN SCHWAB. He and his volunteer staff create a “LIFE” for many animals who might otherwise be put to death at Maui, Hawaii island’s animal shelter facility. 2010
Summary & Transcript Below…
- [01:57 → 03:34]
The hosts express gratitude for being welcomed into the home of the East Maui Animal Refuge, known locally as the Boo Boo Zoo. This facility is highly regarded on the island for its dedication to animal welfare. The conversation reflects a familiarity with the refuge’s work, highlighting their commitment to caring for injured and orphaned animals. They introduce Dunno, an animal who has been at the refuge for six or seven years due to a broken spine, underscoring the long-term care provided. - [03:34 → 05:45]
Animal Care Techniques and Use of Healing Technology:
Discussion shifts to the use of alternative healing methods, such as a “wand” that emits energy for therapeutic purposes akin to Reiki. The wand reportedly has a long-lasting effect without batteries, suggesting it works through a continuous energy source. The staff is exploring its use on animals with mobility issues, like Dunno, to observe any calming or healing effects. There is mention of scientific imaging techniques such as Carilion photography and blood sample analysis, though hard scientific proof is limited. The conversation reflects openness to integrating non-invasive treatments to improve animal comfort. 
Animal Histories and Refuge Care Philosophy:
The refuge takes in all injured, orphaned, or otherwise vulnerable animals brought to them, including Dunno and others such as goats and deer. The detailed care stories highlight intense hands-on nurturing, including feeding via drip for weak animals and physical therapy. The refuge prioritizes comfort and quality of life over euthanasia, unless an animal suffers irreversible pain. They emphasize their no-kill philosophy despite regulatory pressures from DLNR (Department of Land and Natural Resources), which mandates euthanasia for animals that cannot be released back into the wild.- [09:55 → 16:46]
The refuge environment is adapted to the needs of diverse animals, including birds, deer, goats, and cats. The flooring and frequent cleaning routines accommodate animals’ natural behaviors and hygiene needs. For example, birds raised from babies are hand-fed and gradually released when ready; some choose to stay due to domestication. The refuge also manages species classified as pests by DLNR, such as Java sparrows, which are subject to mandated euthanasia despite their care needs. The conversation reveals tensions between conservation policies and animal welfare ethics. - [16:46 → 20:16]
Impact of Human Activity and Wildlife Management on Maui:
The discussion highlights human impacts on local wildlife populations, exemplified by deer proliferation linked to golf courses providing lush feeding grounds. DLNR authorizes nighttime bow hunting on golf courses to control overpopulation, with hunting methods chosen to minimize disturbance to residents. The refuge critiques these management strategies as reactive solutions to human-altered ecosystems. Additionally, the plight of owls is discussed, particularly how rodent poison indirectly causes owl deaths by contaminating their prey. - [20:16 → 26:39]
Wild Bird Rehabilitation and Release Practices:
The refuge cares for various birds including owls, many of which require live food such as frozen mice imported monthly at significant expense. Birds unable to be released due to disabilities, like blindness, are kept permanently at the refuge. The facility has designed release cages that allow recovering birds to regain flight and leave when ready. The refuge advocates for animal quality of life rather than strict adherence to euthanasia policies for non-releasable wildlife. This humane approach contrasts with DLNR’s stricter euthanasia requirements. - [26:39 → 31:46]
Ethical Stance and Responsibility Toward Injured Wildlife:
The refuge asserts its moral responsibility to care for animals injured due to human encroachment and environmental changes. They challenge DLNR’s stance on euthanizing non-releasable animals, arguing that humans are the largest invasive species on the island and thus owe care to displaced wildlife. The refuge provides lifelong sanctuary for these animals, viewing euthanasia as a last resort only when animals experience unmanageable pain. This perspective emphasizes ethical stewardship and accountability for ecological disruptions caused by humans. - [31:46 → 38:28]
Cat Care and Disease Management:
The refuge houses nearly 200 cats, many orphaned or suffering from life-threatening conditions like feline AIDS and leukemia. They adopt out healthy cats regularly but focus on those in critical need. Due to the nature of feline diseases, the refuge conducts blood testing to identify infected cats and quarantines them to prevent disease spread. They emphasize that feline AIDS is manageable with proper care, while leukemia may be overcome naturally over time. The refuge educates adopters on disease management and stresses immunization for all cats to protect the population. - [38:28 → 44:50]
Public Education and Medical Insights:
The refuge encourages regular testing and vaccination for cats, sharing advanced knowledge about feline diseases and the importance of differentiating between vaccine-induced antibodies and actual infection. Their experience provides a bridge between veterinary science and practical animal care, often countering common veterinary advice to euthanize positive cats. They advocate for maintaining moral standards that allow animals with chronic illnesses to live fulfilling lives with proper medical support. - [44:50 → 47:14]
Legal and Regulatory Challenges with DLNR:
- [47:14 → 50:55]
Scope of Animal Care and Wildlife Presence in Hawaii:
While the refuge does not handle large exotic felines like tigers or lions, they care for a wide range of native and non-native species found on the islands. There have been rumors of wild cougars or leopards, but no verified sightings. The refuge collaborates with other organizations, such as the Pacific Primate Sanctuary, which specializes exclusively in monkeys. Visitors are restricted in certain cases due to disease transmission risks, emphasizing the complexity of caring for diverse species. - [50:55 → 54:20]
Long-Term Care and Wildlife Domestication Due to Regulatory Restrictions:
The refuge has provided long-term sanctuary for animals like blind ponies and deer that cannot be released due to DLNR restrictions influenced by conservation efforts from groups like Nature Conservancy. For over 20 years, they have effectively domesticated wildlife that would otherwise be euthanized or released into unsuitable environments. Recent shifts in permit authority from local to state DLNR offices have endangered these animals, with proposals to release them into “canned hunting” preserves, which the refuge strongly opposes on ethical grounds. - [54:20 → 56:54]
Ethical Opposition to Canned Hunting and Commitment to Animal Welfare:
The refuge views releasing domesticated animals into canned hunting areas as tantamount to condemning them to be easy targets for hunters. They reject such practices and express willingness to take legal or personal risks—including going to court or jail—to protect the animals they have saved. This uncompromising stance highlights the depth of their commitment to animal welfare beyond regulatory compliance, emphasizing moral courage and responsibility. - [56:54 → 59:34]
Use of Healing Wand for Rehabilitation:
The refuge plans to trial the healing wand on animals with partial muscular or mobility impairments, such as Valentine the wild goat with back leg injuries from a 60-foot fall, and Earl, a goat with muscle damage from being stuck in mud. The goal is to assess whether the wand can alleviate pain or improve function, offering non-invasive support to animals with chronic conditions. This openness to innovative therapies reflects the refuge’s commitment to maximizing animal comfort and recovery potential. - [59:34 → 01:01:22]
The refuge is reorganizing its space to better accommodate cats by creating a large, contained, airy environment that facilitates monitoring and reduces disease spread. They balance animal welfare with neighbor concerns, such as peacock noise, and have successfully rehomed some animals to environmentally conscious owners who use them for organic pest control. This demonstrates adaptive management and community engagement. - [01:01:22 → 01:04:33]
Regulatory Conflicts and Definition of No-Kill:
The refuge recounts how DLNR’s definition of wildlife rehabilitation includes mandatory euthanasia of certain animals within 180 days or those considered environmental pests. Other no-kill organizations accept euthanasia when federally mandated, but the refuge strives to avoid it unless absolutely necessary. They challenge the interpretation of “no-kill,” advocating that moral standards should supersede regulatory demands when possible. The refuge seeks legal and legislative change to better align laws with animal welfare ethics. - [01:04:33 → 01:05:42]
Personal Philosophy and Moral Conviction:
The refuge director candidly shares their personal inability to euthanize animals unless in irreversible pain, underscoring a principled approach rooted in compassion. They reject killing for convenience or policy compliance and vow to fight for their moral convictions. This heartfelt declaration reinforces the refuge’s identity as a sanctuary grounded in ethical care rather than mere regulatory adherence. - [01:05:42 → 01:06:53]
Call to Support and Contact Information:
The transcript concludes with an invitation for viewers worldwide to support the refuge through donations of money, supplies, or other assistance. The refuge’s website, boo-boo-zoo.org, is provided as a resource for learning more and contributing. The closing reiterates the refuge’s mission and thanks the visitors, leaving a lasting impression of community involvement and ongoing need for support. - [01:06:53 → 01:08:03]
Closing Song Restatement:
The transcript ends by revisiting the opening song, reinforcing themes of love, commitment, and lifelong care. The lyrics about being a friend “from this day on” and sharing “never-ending love” resonate as a metaphor for the refuge’s enduring dedication to the animals in their care. The closing “I do” echoes a vow to protect and nurture, symbolizing the refuge’s pledge to animal welfare.
01:57
Hi there. Thank you for having us in your home. Thank you for coming. Thank you for coming.
02:25
We love being here. You guys at the East Maui Animal Refuge, the Boo Boo Zoo, are so well loved by people on this island. Really? Absolutely. We recognize even when we don’t come here. I only knew all the shit we created. What? I only knew all the shit we created.
02:52
Yeah, it’s all right, puppy. It’s good. There we go. And who’s this over here? This is Dunno. Dunno has been there for about six or seven years now. There on this couch? He was hit by a car, broken spine.
03:20
She was very young when she came, so that’s why she came up here initially, but she has been in that spot all this time. I see.
03:34
are similar to her where why don’t we put valentine sat up on her own valentine can stay sternum but of course she’s not using her back leg so that’s and this is more of a wave over the hand like a reiki kind of a thing rather than touch you could touch but they find because it’s a 30 meter beam and it has sick you know if it goes 30 meters you really don’t need to touch any
04:02
any visual electronic scanning of it, like Carilion photography or anything like that? Yes, they have. In fact, I could show you online some examples of… I did look at it online. And then I looked at a bunch of other… I can give you a brochure that has some pictures and photos in it of blood samples and of Carilion photography of different things. And…
04:29
you know, I really don’t have any kind of scientific proof that things that are from out of this country may be available and, you know, I can gather them. I thought that treatment of animals who have no opinions like all of us might be very helpful and also maybe a really good
04:49
study to do. This is the kind of thing, it never really wears out, because there’s no battery connection. This is… Well, they say that it’s a thousand years before… Well, I probably won’t need a refill. That’s what I mean. You and I won’t need a refill. Right. Yes, I wanted to get one, and I wanted to have some of the girls who work with these animals start using them and see if they have any… Okay, well, we can arrange that. That’s a good thing. So, now what I’m seeing with this… What’s this one’s name? I’m sorry. No, no.
05:20
Dunno? Yeah, D-U-N-N-O. Everybody asked me her name and I didn’t know, so I just said Dunno. Okay. I don’t know your name. So she had a broken spine. Broken spine, yeah. And so this has been her home, this couch. About seven years, right in this spot, yeah. I just moved her to change the bedding under her several times. So now what are you winding there? Well, this is where the break is in the spine, right up here. I see.
05:45
So I just want to see if there’s any… I mean, here I’m not going to really see any effect. It’s not like she’s going to get up or anything, but if it had any calming effect on her, that would be interesting. And we do have, like I said, a couple of other critters, which we’ll take the wand with us and go and take a look at them and see. You don’t have one with you that’s available? No, but we can order it, but no, I don’t. How much are they?
06:15
uh 273. where did i see 65 dollars well there are others that are want to call them knockoffs companies that have been trying to this is the one you told me to look up i looked up your your website that you’re working with i can i can show you so we’ll see what you saw okay
06:36
But I didn’t want to order it online until you came. Oh, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I assume that you get some kind of credit for having… Well, what it is, it’s very hard to keep alive. So she had a couple to cry on her recently. Oh, did she cry? Yeah. And she gets so emotionally into caring for them that she also gets emotionally…
06:59
distraught when we lose them and i understand you know we get attached to our animals all of us i think that’s the reason we so love you guys because you honor the animals and don’t treat them like they’re just another possession to be discarded well and that’s the problem is that with the
07:22
permit to take in indigenous wildlife also comes the federal requirement to euthanize animals that you can’t get back in the wild and we’ve always let DLNR know that we’re a no-kill facility and we don’t euthanize animals just because they can’t get back into the wild because for 20 years DLNR has had us not return animals back into the wild.
07:52
So if they tell us not to put them back in the wild, that’s okay. But if we can’t get them back into the wild, then we’re supposed to euthanize them. But if we can make them comfortable, as we have with her for six or seven years now, then we don’t euthanize them unless they’re in irreversible pain. Pain is the factor.
08:18
not whether they can have the same quality of life that they experience in the wild, but that they can have the best potential quality of life we can give them, considering their inability to function as they would normally in the wild.
08:37
How did Dunno come to you guys? Because we’re the only place on the island that takes in orphaned, injured, or… Someone actually brought her to you? Yeah. Everything that’s here, all 500 animals that are here have been brought. Physical therapy. Who’s that? Wendy. And her number is 280885. So you’ve been able to nurse this one and get him, get her. Her? He’s a boy. A boy. Mm-hmm.
09:03
back to and getting back to full health. And when they are healthy again, you guys have a place where you… Huh? He just made it. We’ve had him for nine weeks. It took six and a half weeks for him to cycle, which is pretty much when we know that they’re making the turning point. He had a really high fever. It took many nights of staying up and…
09:31
feeding him, pretty much dripping milk into his mouth because he wasn’t suckling. And he just made it now where he’s really active and he’s healthy, no fever. But they stay downstairs at the refuge here, the goats. I see. Well, they’re great. Thank you, Caroline.
09:55
Say hello to Jason. Will you say hello? Will you say? No, I don’t say shake your head. Just say hello. Hello. Yeah. What? Are you my good girl? Are you my good girl? Yeah? Yeah? Yes, you’re Cheryl. That’s right. Are you my baby girl? Are you? What? You want something? Huh? You want something?
10:29
Is this what you want? What you want? Uh-huh. Unfortunately, I have two hands and three coats. Plus, there’s a bit of a disagreement as to who gets what when.
10:59
Most people don’t know that those can walk on their hind legs. No, I didn’t know that either. No, just a little motivation. That’s right. A little motivation goes a long way. So how long have you been doing this? Many years now. 30 some odd years, yeah. Here in this location the whole time? Yeah, we’ve been here over 20. Wow.
11:30
Initially, we started doing this in a condo in Malaya. But when the landlord kept hearing some of the ducks coming out of our condo and birds flying in and out of Illinois, they suggested that we might want to move into a more country-type city. So we did it in Pueblo for about seven years and finally found this place. And then these two deer.
12:00
Back here, blind. And then her boyfriend back there. She’s getting so big. A little bit spooked by that. Yeah, they get spooked. That’s why all the stuff on the floor is small, stuff that can be thrown in the wash. So we change that a couple of times a day, and then twice a week we have a commercial-type shampooer that we shampoo the carpet so that the carpet underneath doesn’t start getting rank and we don’t start developing any mold.
12:30
Right. Well, what an extraordinary commitment you’ve made. Yes, we should be committed. And I see all these hanging toys. Oh, actually, we’ve gotten rid of hundreds of them. We used to have a lot more. Yeah. A birth defect. He was brought as a baby again in his front. All right, Dad, come on.
13:01
his front legs are turned to the side so that in order to walk he has to lift up his front end.
13:13
And so that’s why we have the stuffed animal there for him to lean on. But he’s been in the house, it’s about five or six years now that he’s been in the house, because obviously he couldn’t hold his own against the goats that are outside. Right. Most of the goats we get are, and the deer, are orphan babies. So we start out taking care of them in the house, and then as they grow up, they’ll slowly, like those goats on the porch, are just now working their way out with the rest of the herd. I see.
13:42
And these guys do their thing whenever? Yeah, well, that’s why the floor is this way. Yeah, we have to constantly clean. I go through birds at my house. I just cleaned, and I’m determined to keep it clean, so he’s diapered right now, and in a week I might let him go. I see. And then you have a camera, I see, to be able to see what’s going on out in the courtyard. Well, we have to because I’ve got no windows facing the outside there, so if I hear something going on,
14:12
And I don’t know what the skirmish is about. I need a security camera out there so I can see, is it just the dog barking because the dog wants to bark? Or is there somebody here who needs help? Or is there an animal in trouble? Sure. In fact, do you want to go outside and check out the critters outside? So this is definitely not the cat’s area, is that? Yeah. No, this is the birds that…
14:37
All the baby birds that come would come here and we hand feed them. And then as we’re cleaning, they will fly out as they can. So the birds that are flying free in here are ones that have been hand cared for and then
14:51
as babies got big enough to fly out now we’ve had hundreds that have left because we have the hole up here that they can release themselves into the wild a lot of them don’t want to go in the wild so a lot of them stay here the ones that are up there that are the that have the white cheeks the java sparrows
15:10
Those are one of the ones that I’m in contention with DLNR over because those, we’re supposed to just automatically euthanize when they come in. Period. Healthy, sick, doesn’t matter because they eat fruit.
15:24
And so therefore they’re considered a pest to the plant. A bad boy. Yeah. The one with the red beak, for example? Yes, the one with the orange beak and the white cheeks are called java sparrows. I see. What’s actually their primary food out in the wild is java prunes, plums, which there’s very few java plum trees out there.
15:49
They start working on other fruits, but they’re also seed eaters, so they eat most anything. They’re not meat eaters, so they’re not totally omnivorous, but they do eat seed and fruit, but because they’re a potential danger to fruit crops, and which of course is…
16:06
a problem with a lot of the animal-associated euthanizing that DLNR wants done, because animals that are destructive to the environment, they want removed, even though, like the deer, DLNR are the ones who brought the animals in. Is that right? Yeah, they brought them in for hunting purposes.
16:32
But now they also have reproduced exponentially because of all the golf courses on the island. A golf course is basically this huge, lush feeding ground for deer.
16:46
So what a lot of the people who actually live on the site of those golf courses don’t know is that DLNR authorizes all the courses to have bow hunting of the deer at night. Obviously they don’t allow them to shoot off arms because of the location of houses nearby and also because they don’t want to alert the
17:06
people to a noise of gunshot and all that. But they have bow and arrow hunting on the golf courses in the night regularly. And that’s because the deer are overpopulating. They’re overpopulating because the golf courses are providing them with this huge lush area to roam and feed on. So there’s literally thousands of deer at night that feed in the golf courses. Wow. What? Are you… Hi.
17:37
You always want to get in on everything, don’t you? You want to be a part of everything, don’t you? Don’t you? You want to keep them going on. Yes, I know. I see you, Rob. Okay. So, let’s see how close is he to not being noisy out there.
18:12
uh these owls uh when they come in we’ve got a few other birds in here right now that so you’ve got a little of everything got a lot of some and a little of everything yeah yeah this this owl here is feeding you right now hold on feeding you
18:39
You want a mouse? All right, I’ll give you a mouse. Want a picture of an owl swallowing a mouse? I think that it’s sort of life. This is Athena. She’s blind.
18:57
and she’s been here several years now this is another one that dlnr would have us euthanize strictly because she can’t be released back into the wild because she’s blind but she’s been here about five or six years now and uh gets along just fine and she likes mouse even though that’s a dead mouse right you know i have like about 15 owls here right now oh and they all eat mice uh
19:22
I go through about 1,600, 1,700 mice a month, which I have to bring in from Indiana frozen. I see. Yeah, they all come in. I think the people in Wailuku and Kihei might say, come to our place. Let an owl out in our place a while. Well, you know, there are owls all over residential areas. The problem is that…
19:44
They’re killed by the residents who want them there because when they put out poisons for the mice, the mice don’t die instantly. It usually takes a day or two. So it starts to slow them down. So at night, the mice that are walking across the road or out in the yards that are slow, the owls catch. The owls eat. The owls get poisoned. And so a lot of the owls get killed by the people who wish they had owls around them. Wow.
20:16
So how did this one come to you? The same way? Athena actually was originally a Native American Indian, and Makawao had him and was brought to him. And he passed away, and so when the Humane Society was called in there to get the owl, they brought him here. He’s just hungry today, isn’t he? He’ll usually just swallow it right now.
20:45
Is that cute? Do you have a little tail sticking out of her mouth? So if any of the people watching have mice, you don’t want them one by one. Well, but not live.
21:04
Because if I release a live mouse into any of the cages, the mouse will be gone before the owl will get around to it. This guy here was hit by a car and had an injured wing. And we’ll be releasing him. Actually, he’s probably about ready to be… Why don’t we take him right now? We can release him into the…
21:26
We have a flight cage out here, where as the bird gets its ability to fly back, it can release itself back into the wild. I see. So it’s an open cage, open to the wild. I see. Let’s take you outside and see if you’re ready to fly. Are you ready? Hello. Oh, what are you thinking about now, Carla? Hello.
21:55
Hello. Alright, we’re getting closer. We’re getting closer. Hello. There you go, there you go.
22:23
You know, this cage here has the opening over there. I see that. We have flashing around the side so that he can’t just climb out. But once he can fly on his own, he can release himself. I see. And so you leave him out there and… So we’ll leave him here now and we’ll throw food out for him and then as soon as he’s got his flight back, he’ll be gone. I see.
22:54
Do you find that most of the animals get along with each other when they’re in captivity? Well, for example, the owls there…
23:03
food source in the wild is small birds like this so so it’s not some of them you have to separate we tend to try to keep most of the cats out of the aviary as well because again you know cats chase birds it’s just who they are right right but yeah as far as uh injured or orphaned you can see the doves are down here and they’re all getting a lot together the minor birds are up in that cage there and then as we open it up and clean the cages the ones that have flight will just fly out
23:31
And then there’s a release hole there and there’s a release hole here for them to let themselves out into the wild as well. So we try to let them go out on their own when they can. And if they’re not ready, they can stay here as long as they want. If they want to come back in because they’re not finding a food source, they can come back in. Scarlet. Scarlet here, on the other hand, is not meant to be in the wild, so she doesn’t go out. Come down here. Come down here.
24:01
Come here. Come here. I’ll give you a nut if you give me a kiss. Give me a kiss. Give me a kiss. Thank you. Yeah. This card read for Susie because she had cancer at the time. And from knowing her, I knew that she liked caring for sick and injured animals because we’d go to the pet shop every weekend and she’d have to have the ones that were cowering in the corner not feeling well.
24:29
And so when I found out that she had cancer, I started collecting small animals as occupational therapy for her. And even though she’s recovered from cancer, we haven’t recovered from our occupational therapy, which is taking care of orphaned, injured, and sick animals. So hopefully we’ll be doing this until they put us in the ground.
24:55
Which won’t be soon, we hope. Well, hopefully not. You never know. You have a support group of volunteers, yeah? Everybody here is volunteers. We have about 30 some odd volunteers. And right now we’re in the process of building a caretaker cottage out in front here.
25:14
So that there will be people living here who are in touch with the daily operation. So that should I get hit by a bus tomorrow, as my board of directors put it, there will be somebody here to take care of the plane.
25:30
who are familiar with everything going on. So yeah, we’re in the process of doing that so that we can establish the place in perpetuity, since obviously none of us are in perpetuity, but we want the organization to be in perpetuity. And my wife and I have already put in our will donating the property to the refuge once it…
25:55
Once we’re gone, the refuge will belong to the non-profit organization. So people that are… Here are the Puea, the endangered Hawaiian owls. I see. There’s three of them. There’s two more in here probably hiding somewhere. I see.
26:13
Now, two of those have had partial amputation of one of the wings. So there’s a couple of them that will be here permanently. The rest are getting their flight back. And as they do, we’re cutting a hole in the side here right now to establish this room as a self-release cage, just like that other one is. We’re in the process of finishing that up tomorrow, actually, to put a release thing right there. So I bet these guys are looking so excited.
26:39
But again, the ones that can’t go back in the wild will still have a life here for as long as they live. Which again, we’re in contention with DLNR, because they say if it can’t go in the wild, put it down. We say if it can be healthy, happy, and comfortable, it should have a life. It shouldn’t be euthanized just because we created a problem for the animals. Because the worst…
27:08
animal that is not indigenous to the island, that is the largest invasive species, is us, is man. Oh, I was going to guess a Jackson chameleon, but it’s us, isn’t it? It’s us. We’re invading their…
27:26
area daily we’re building homes where was their area to live we’ve brought in animals like the deer for hunting purposes but they populated exponentially because we’ve created all these lush feeding grounds and golf courses for them
27:49
So we feel that we should be responsible enough to take care of the animals that have been injured because of our invasion in their space. And so we’re providing
28:03
a life for them, whatever their condition. DLNR says we may have invaded their area, but that means that there’s too many of them to survive in the area that we’ve left for them, so let’s just kill off the ones that are overpopulated. I’m not arguing the reasoning for the balance of nature. Yes, nature should be balanced. But we’ve thrown the balance off.
28:33
So we should be responsible for the problems incurred because of throwing the balance of nature off. So we’re not returning these animals back into the wild because yes, it already has been established that for one reason or another
28:46
there isn’t space for them in the wild so we’re providing a space for them for life if they can survive and go back into the wild they’re free to do so if they can’t make it back in the wild then we feel responsible to give them as comfortable a life as can be provided under the circumstances understand that’s our standing that’s why we’re here right Athena are you full now you want another one boy you’re just what you okay just a minute yeah
29:18
Here comes another one. You got it? Alright.
29:32
Makes you hungry, doesn’t it? You don’t even chew, huh? Just go right down. You know, sometimes she’ll tear it up and eat it, and sometimes she’ll just swallow it down. Right. Because they need the whole mouse to digest it anyway. The bones, all the bits and pieces of the mouse are necessary in their system to digest them. Well, that’s interesting. Now, this guy here is a golden plover.
30:02
as a broken wing. And the plovers are a migratory bird. They actually breed in the Arctic and then fly here for the summer. And again, they’re often injured in the cane fields by the machinery that
30:31
But the plovers are, they need live food to eat, so we provide mealworms for them to eat while his wing is healing there. Now all this food, all the things I see that you have
30:49
towels and carpets and you name it are all donations, right? Obviously not everything is donated. Obviously we’re not going to get a company in Indiana that breeds mice for a business to donate 1,600 mice a month. It costs us about $1,000 a month just to bring in mice for the owls. So that’s why we need monetary donations as well as food donations. There’s just no way that people can donate 1,600 mice a month.
31:18
So even though all of the individuals here are volunteers, we still have over $20,000 of monthly expenses just to care for the animals over and above what it would cost us to have a payroll. If we had a payroll, obviously it would be more than double what it costs to run it. There’s about 500 animals here right now. They don’t necessarily have to be large animals in order to be a large expense.
31:46
And they’re not just wildlife. We have cats. We have almost 200 cats. Cats are a big expense. If anybody owns a cat knows, multiply your cost of a cat times 200 and you’ll have some idea of what our expenses are. Except that we try to only take in animals that are in a life threatening situation.
32:05
And you have cats that could find, if you can have people come here, they could be put in homes, right? We adopt out cats almost daily. I see. We do adopt out, because we get a lot of orphaned kittens. The Humane Society is not set up to bottle feed babies. And happens to be one of our board of directors is also an animal control officer for the Humane Society. So at the end of the day there, when she’s done with her shift,
32:33
they’ll let her know what animals have come in there that potentially could come here and still have a home that they’re not able there to care for any longer whether it’s wildlife and they’re not capable of caring for at all or if it’s kittens where they don’t have a 24-hour staff there so they don’t have people there to bottle feed so we’ve taken in hundreds of cats from the humane society mainly kittens but also we’ve taken in cats that have aids and leukemia from the humane society because
33:01
AIDS and leukemia is the type of disease that can only be discovered through blood testing. So when they’re adopting out a cat, they don’t blood test every cat that they name because it’s about $25 to test a cat for AIDS and leukemia.
33:17
So obviously the cats that are going to get euthanized anyway, there’s no sense in testing. The cats that they’re adopting out, when they go to spay and neuter that cat, while it’s under anesthesia, they also draw blood to see if it has any communicable disease. And if it does, and the person adopting it doesn’t want to take on the responsibility of an animal that has a communicable disease,
33:39
then obviously it’s been a handleable enough animal that it wants to have a home. I’m not capable of caring for feral cats because I don’t take on any animal that I can’t take proper care of. If I can’t properly take care of an animal’s health, I shouldn’t take it on in the first place.
34:05
So feral cats, meaning wild cats that are not handled at all, I don’t take on because they get sick just like any other animal does. And they won’t let me give them antibiotics or something like that. They won’t let me handle them to treat them. If I can’t treat them, that means that I’m just exposing all the other animals that are in illness as well.
34:24
So the care of feral cats is a huge commitment to someone who is caring for a feral colony, but it’s not one that I am capable of taking care of here because I am exposing the cats to each other. We do immunize all our cats against AIDS and leukemia as well as all the other diseases that they’re immunized for. We test them for submissions. The ones that have a communicable disease,
34:50
keep in a quarantine area, which we’ll come and take and show you now. I see. But ones that are healthy, they’re running free. Even though all of our cats are immunized for AIDS and Leukemia, and if they get exposed to cats with AIDS and Leukemia, they’re not going to catch it. But we don’t let our AIDS and Leukemia cats run around because we don’t necessarily know that our neighbors’ cats
35:14
are immunized for AIDS and leukemia. So we don’t want to spread any communicable disease and perpetrate any further problems that aren’t already out there. So let’s go take a look at the cat area. OK. Nice.
35:39
This area right here is separated from the others because the cats that have ringworms, we quarantine over here away from all the other cats because even though it’s not life-threatening, it’s highly contagious.
35:54
and it’s really difficult to control ringworm because it’s a spore that stays in the environment potentially for years before it pops and encloses itself. It has to have the right humidity and the right temperature for that spore to become active ringworm. Pairs to adopt outlawed cats have been discovered that they have apes and leukemia.
36:16
When they’re in Spain, neutering them and drawing the blood. I see. But it’s not an obvious thing. It’s waiting for time to finish up. Right. Right here, just came here a couple of weeks ago. And people were adopting him from the Humane Society. He’s just a really sweet, beautiful cat. But when they neutered him, they tested him, and he tested positive for AIDS.
36:40
And they wouldn’t have known that except that they tested him. Yeah, exactly. And, I mean, he had some sores on his side here, which are clearing up nicely. But if a cat has feline AIDS or feline leukemia, basically what that means is they have a compromised immune system.
36:59
So if you have a cat that has AIDS or leukemia, you don’t necessarily need to put it down, but you do need to be prepared to take it to the vet and get an antibiotic for it anytime it contracts any kind of infection, whether it be a skin infection like this one was here, or whether it be a bacterial upper respiratory infection, because the immune system is compromised. So you need to assist the immune system
37:28
to overcome whatever it’s experiencing.
37:33
feline aids is not a curable disease but it’s as far as treatment goes it just means you have to assist the animal when it gets sick if it gets a sniffle if it gets a cut whatever’s happening you have to help it along to heal feline leukemia on the other hand can be cured but it can only be cured by the cat’s own immune system
37:59
So a cat that you have that tests positive for feline leukemia can become a non-positive leukemia cat over a period of time. We’ve had it happen in six months. We’ve had it happen as long as four years before the cat overcomes leukemia. And that’s just a matter of giving the cat a healthy lifestyle, helping it whenever it needs to be treated for an infection, and letting its own immune system build up
38:28
a resistance to that problem of feline leukemia, to that virus. So you recommend for anyone that has a cat to be testing their cats at some kind of interval? Anybody who has a cat should always, first of all, have it tested because as it was initially when feline leukemia was first discovered, now recently feline AIDS, there is now a vaccination for it, a vaccine to prevent
38:55
Unfortunately, because it’s a new vaccine, they don’t yet have a test for feline AIDS.
39:03
that determines if it’s positive because of the immunization or if it’s positive because it has feline AIDS. So that will happen. There is a test that has been developed by UC Davis to tell the difference between a false positive and an actual positive, but it’s not commercially available yet. So you have to send the blood sample to UC Davis if you want to know for a fact.
39:29
So before you immunize for feline AIDS, you want to test first to know if it has it or not. Once you’ve tested, then you can immunize, and you know that the cat has a bodily defense against feline AIDS. So you’ve become, I want to say, a half-scientist. More than that. Experience is a good teacher, yeah. I’m not a vet, but after doing this for over 30 years, you pick up a thing or two here and there. I bet. And I get a lot of people who call me and say that.
39:59
cat to our vet and it tested positive for leukemia and they said we should put it down. And vets are taught in vet school if an animal can’t be a normal healthy animal then it should be euthanized. That’s just the standard they’re taught to operate by. Whether that is morally conscionable or not is determined by each individual.
40:20
And as long as all your other cats in the house are immunized against AIDS or leukemia, you don’t have a problem of passing it on to your other cats. You don’t want to let that cat become an outdoor cat because then you’re exposing the neighbor cats to feline AIDS or leukemia.
40:35
And that, of course, is how, how does one, how does a cat get it from getting involved? To get AIDS or leukemia, the cat has to have a direct transfer of bodily fluid from a positive cat. So you can’t pass it on. Actually, if a vet draws blood from a cat that has feline AIDS,
40:57
and injects that blood into a non-positive cat, the cat will not get AIDS. It has to be a direct transfer of a bodily fluid from a positive cat to a cat
41:11
Which is why when people let their cats out into the neighborhood, they don’t know what’s going on. They don’t know if their cat’s getting exposed or if their cat is exposing other cats. Until you have your cat tested and you can’t tell by looking at it. I have a cat here that has been positive for AIDS and leukemia for over 20 years. Wow. He’s a cat that I have up in the house right now. Yeah.
41:32
And you cannot tell by looking at him that he has any illness at all, because obviously if he gets a sniffle, I’m on top of it with an antibiotic. Right. But they can live for a long, well, just as long as any other cat can with aging leukemia.
41:47
It’s just a matter of because it’s a communicable disease, vets tell you put it down because the vet doesn’t want to be responsible for passing a communicable disease on to any other animal. That is a responsible thing to do. And so we act in the same way. We don’t recommend that you expose other cats to AIDS and leukemia. But if you have cats, you can immunize them.
42:12
You can have a cat in the house that’s AIDS or leukemia positive and have other cats in the house that are not, and not necessarily expose your other cats to it as long as you’ve immunized them. I see. Well, there are cats everywhere, like you say. They’re all over. They’re all over the place, yeah. And these…
42:30
These cats are all, I mean, like I said, if a cat is feral, if it’s unhandleable and wild, I can’t take it on because it doesn’t let me treat it. But as long as it’s handleable, if it’s in a life-threatening situation, we try to take it on.
42:46
Obviously, everyone has their limitations and we’ve had times at which we are so overwhelmed that we’ve tried to find alternatives for people because we can’t cure the whole world’s ills. But we try to be there for anyone who has an animal in a life-threatening situation. Obviously, we get calls from a lot of people who have healthy animals and they have to move, they have to find a home for their cat. And we do try to…
43:13
give people alternatives to find a new home for a cat. But I try not to take on healthy cats because I don’t want to expose a healthy cat to all the different things that we get here because that’s what we do is we take on animals that have an illness. And so exposing a healthy cat to an illness
43:32
It’s something you just don’t basically want to do, but at the same time you don’t want to have a cat put down just because there’s no home for it right now. So we have to take each situation on as an individual situation. Understood. And I’m sure that on occasion you think you’ve got a healthy cat and you test them and suddenly you find that they’re not. Exactly, exactly.
43:52
We try to advise people, because a lot of people are in love with their kitty, they’ve had for years, and all of a sudden they find out, because it’s been an indoor-outdoor cat, that it gets a sniffle, and so they take it to the vet, and the vet tests it, and it tests positive for AIDS or positive leukemia, and the vet tells them they should put it down, and they’re, of course, in love with their kitty, and they don’t want to put it down, and they call us to see if we’ll take it, and we will, but we’ll normally try to educate the person as well,
44:20
and teach them that they can still keep their kitty and just make the rest of their cats stronger. Right, immunize them. Immunize them so that they don’t have to be exposed, so they don’t have to get rid of their otherwise healthy cat, so that they don’t have to expose their other cats. Can we set up something that would be of science nature that would be of assistance in your challenge with the DLNR? Well,
44:50
Because the DLNR, Department of Land and Natural Resources, wants us to euthanize a lot of animals that don’t need to be euthanized, we hired an animal rights attorney to help us deal with that problem. Okay. Because we’re not going to change our moral standards because our moral standards might be higher than the moral standards of DLNR. Right.
45:18
And that animal rights attorney happened to have been a deal in our attorney before she became an animal rights attorney. And basically she told us we had to reinvent ourselves. That in order to keep animals that normally would have to be euthanized, we would have to become both an educational facility and a scientific facility. And so that we would have to keep the animals that would normally be euthanized for scientific study.
45:45
as well as to educate the public about these various problems that the animals experience. So we have just last week sent in our new permit request to deal in our outlining scientific program and outlining educational programs that we have worked on for the last four months so that we can reinvent ourselves and become the type of facility that doesn’t have to compromise our moral standards by euthanizing animals unnecessarily.
46:12
And it’s a positive thing because, first of all, any educational program is going to be a benefit to the community. So it’s good that we’re developing educational programs. And the scientific research that we’re going into is to discover why a lot of these animals have gotten injured in the wild, how we can prevent that, and how the public can help deal with it. So both of those are public…
46:37
improvements to our operations so that we can be of better service to the public and at the same time improve our reasons for functioning as well as not just being an animal rescue organization. We’re an educational facility and a scientific research facility. You can be a scientific research facility without doing the type of scientific research that
47:02
causes harm onto animals like Revlon or other products that have to test using animals to test whether their eyes are going to burn if this mascara gets in your eyes or
47:14
They put mascara on cats? Well, they do it on rabbits. On animals that have similar bodily functions to humans. Oh, that’s interesting. Because obviously testing on humans is frowned upon by the FDA. Right. So they test on animals because, you know, our society feels that animals are a commodity that can be…
47:38
dealt with in any fashion that serves our function. Have you dealt with any of the large feline kind of animals? Like tigers and lions? Well, they’re not legal to be in Hawaii in the first place. Oh, is that what it is? So when they’re out in the wild, we’d heard there was a cougar or a leopard? Yeah. No confirmation of that animal ever actually existing. It was never found.
48:02
A lot of sightings of what people believed to be a leopard or a cougar, but whether it actually was there or not, I don’t know. The LNR never found it, though they went hunting for it for sure when they heard rumors. But that was many years ago that they heard about it. Nothing was ever found, and nothing’s been heard of in many years as far as animals that have been torn up.
48:24
especially deer, they would expect deer to have been mangled in a fashion that would be done by large cats and that hasn’t happened in many years. Did it exist? Certainly possible because a lot of people come to the islands by watercraft and if they’re sailing in from other ports they could very easily have obtained baby lions, baby leopards, baby cougars in other ports and brought them to the islands and
48:54
and not under the scrutiny of customs. And so, yeah, it’s quite possible that there were wild cats here, but not legally. And if it existed, there’s been no… So I was just really trying to get an idea of the range of kinds of animals you deal with. We deal with anything and everything that exists in the islands.
49:18
anything that’s been in a life-threatening situation. There’s a few exotics that are here that we haven’t gotten because there’s a few llamas and alpacas that people are raising here but there’s very few and obviously they’re so exotic that if people have had any medical problems with them they take them to the vet because you don’t
49:36
Import an expensive animal if you’re not prepared to care for that animal. The other thing that’s here that we haven’t dealt with is monkeys. And the Pacific Primate Sanctuary deals strictly with monkeys and nothing else. Actually, we knew them before they became involved with monkeys, and they were dealing with other animals. And as they dealt with monkeys more and more and more, they had to stop dealing with other animals because the primates became a primary concern for them.
50:06
The primates are a situation where they don’t allow visitors because primates have such a close respiratory and functional system to our own that a little kid sneezing near the cage of a monkey can pass on a
50:23
infection to the monkey that it’s not um built up an immunity to but is susceptible to i said they did have experience of just that happening that uh that monkeys got sick and died because of someone sneezing near the cave so they have to stop allowing visitors to them well this has been a really interesting ride through your facility this place is an interesting ride you know what
50:55
The difference, they all look somewhat the same by color. We keep medical records of all the critters that we take care of here. And who’s that horse there? Her pony? Come on out. This is Kea. Kea was somebody’s personal animal. But the people who had him lost their property.
51:23
And Kaya’s blind, so he wasn’t adoptable to other people because being blind, he wasn’t an animal who someone could just take on and have as their riding companion. But he’s really sweet. He’s a wonderful creature. And because he’s blind is why we took him. When we first started doing deer,
51:49
we had taken a fawn up to the vet to be neutered. And on the way home, I stopped by a pharmacy to get medication for the fawn. And the pharmacy happened to be next door to Nature Conservancy. When I came back out to the car, there was a guy from Nature Conservancy standing next to our van asking, how come you got a deer in your car? And so we told him that we’d take him in, we’d make him better, we would lease him back into the wild. Well, a week later,
52:19
I hear from DLNR that we shouldn’t release any more of our deer or goats or pigs back into the wild. That all of our mammals that we take in, we should either euthanize or keep on the property. So for 20 years, we’ve been basically domesticating the wildlife that comes in because
52:41
Nature Conservancy put political pressure on DLNR not to further endanger the watershed by releasing them back into the wild. I see. So for 20 years, we’ve been taking the deer in, the goats, the pigs, the sheep, and domesticating them, and they’ve just become part of the family here. Well, when recently our permit came up for renewal,
53:07
The approval of the permit went from the local DLNR to the state. And so this local understanding we had with DLNR now became a concern of the state office, who as far as they are concerned, you go by the book and that’s it, matter of factly. So when they came here to check out our facility and saw all the deer here,
53:29
and discussed with the local people about releasing the deer back in the wild, and they said, well, they had this problem with Nature Conservancy, so they have an individual who has a canned hunting operation up in Kula. I see. And…
53:45
Not a reserve, but it’s canned hunting. And so DLNR wants us to take all these domesticated deer and release them up into the canned hunting area. They’ll be literally sitting ducks. Literally a hunter can open his truck door and say, step in, please. I mean, they don’t even have to hunt them because they’re not wild anymore.
54:03
right so we’ve been operating under the premise that dlnr has watered us through for 20 years and now it’s backfired and all of a sudden they want to kill all of the animals that have basically been our family because that’s what they they had us do and so once again we’re at odds with dlnr because
54:20
We’re not going to euthanize animals unnecessarily. We’re not going to take… Basically, it would be like telling you to take your dog and take it up to a canned hunting area where we’re shooting dogs. I mean, it’s legal in Hawaii to butcher your dog in your backyard for food. Hawaii is not an animal-friendly state because that is…
54:45
a practice that a lot of the nations that have imported themselves into Hawaii, like the Philippines and Korea, eating dog is not foreign to their
54:58
country, then they don’t want to cause a big uproar, so they allow people, as long as it’s done humanely, to butcher their own house pets and have them for food here in Hawaii. You won’t find that in any other state in the union, but in Hawaii it’s legal. And so a lot of people are aghast when they find that out, personally. I am. And I am too. But it’s something you have to deal with, being part of the animal
55:28
oriented individuals in Hawaii. There’s a lot of things that are going to be legal here that you just don’t like. You have to put up with it. But when it comes to my animals, the animals that I’ve raised, the animals that I’ve rescued from a life-threatening situation, spent literally hundreds of thousands of dollars on to keep them alive and make them healthy, I’m not going to stick them in a reserve for a hunter to blow their brains out. It’s just not going to happen. Whatever we have to do
55:58
To prevent that, whether we have to go to court, whether I have to go to jail, whatever is going to have to be in order to preserve those animals’ lives that we have saved, that’s what we’re going to do. That’s it. What animals did you want to try to treat with the wand? What were you thinking? Well, we have… This is Valentine. Valentine was a wild goat. And hunters…
56:24
were goat hunting, Valentine happened to jump down off a cliff right in front of them. And she injured her back legs here. She can’t use them. And she’s been here now four or five months. And she’s still alert and healthy. And as you can see, even though she was an adult wild goat when she came, she’s become quite calm and tame because we’ve been taking care of her.
56:54
And animals know when they’re in a life-threatening situation, and they know when they’re somewhere that you’re taking care of them. So I wanted to try to use the wand right in her rear here where she can’t use her back legs right now. We’ve been exercising them. We have a sling over here that we put her in daily and try to exercise her legs. Actually, when she came, she was pregnant, but she jumped off a 60-foot cliff, and so she did experience a miscarriage.
57:24
A 60-foot cliff. Yeah. That would break your leg. Because normally an animal, especially goats, can jump off a pretty high area and still survive fine. But 60 feet is a pretty significant impact to her. Yeah. So that’s why I wanted to try the one on her back end right here because although I’m not expecting a miracle that she’s going to be able to walk, at the same time, if we can relieve any pain or anything, she’s not acting like she’s in pain.
57:54
But if we can give her some kind of relief, anything we can do, I’m always open to trying. Where I’ve seen the wand being used is an animal that has a strain or, like you say, can’t use an area, that suddenly finds that it’s using it different than it has in the past. Interesting to see. So this was one animal that I wanted to use.
58:21
Another one is back here. This is Earl. Earl basically got stuck in the mud for several days. And because of that, he…
58:32
caused damage to his muscular system. And again, he has trouble properly using his back legs. There’s nothing broken. He’s just after his muscles have at the feet a bit. And so I was hoping, this is the one, if the wand can heal anything, he would be healable. And if it actually can do something, then he would be the one that…
59:00
That would be a beneficiary. It has an actual benefit. He has the physical capability of using his muscles. He’s just lost them for whatever unknown reason we don’t know. I see. So he’s the other one that I was interested in using the wand on. I don’t want to walk away with your wand. It’s okay. I’m just looking at him and thinking.
59:24
We’ll come back and be able to give him treatments, and then we’ll have you a wand here soon. Right, Earl?
59:34
We’re planning on moving them to the pigeon coop here. We’re building a new pigeon coop out and back for the pigeons. We’re trying to rotate things around because we want to use this big area here for cats. I see. And have this whole building as cats, and that way all of our cats will be in a contained area. Because we don’t really want to have cats out there who are catching cold, getting sniffles, something going wrong with them, and we don’t know about it. Right. If they’re all in this huge contained area,
01:00:02
And if anything’s going on, we have notice of it right away. And it’s a big enough airy, sunny, open area where they’re not going to be deprived of sunshine. They’re not going to be deprived of fresh air. But at the same time, we do hear a lot of our neighbors who say, you know, I’ve adopted a lot of your cats, which is fine. We don’t have a problem with that as long as they don’t have a problem with it. If they have a problem with it, they call us. They don’t hesitate to call us and say, you know, we have peacocks on our roof and we’re not real excited about that.
01:00:31
Actually, we adopted out about 20 peacocks recently to a gentleman who has several greenhouses and he’s growing plants and trying to do organic farming. And he uses the peacocks to keep his insect situation under control instead of using any pesticides.
01:01:22
When we got inspected by the State Department of Land and Natural Resources and after inspecting the property they told us you can no longer be, we could no longer be wildlife rehabilitation and no kill.
01:01:46
that an inherent part of wildlife rehabilitation is you have to euthanize certain animals that federal guidelines tell you you have to euthanize, namely those that can’t be put back in the wild within 180 days and those that are considered destructive to the environment.
01:02:06
When that happened, I started calling around the country to other animal organizations that called themselves Wildlife Rehabilitation No-Kill. And I started asking around saying, how are you remaining no-kill and still being licensed by DLNR as Wildlife Rehabilitation?
01:02:28
And over and over again, the response I got was, well, of course we do have to euthanize the animals that they tell us that we have to euthanize. That’s the federal guideline. But we still consider ourselves no-kill because we don’t kill the other animals that we don’t have to. I see. So it’s…
01:02:47
It’s a matter of adhering with the policy and how you interpret it. Exactly. It’s just like there’s a cat sanctuary on the island that calls them the only no-kill cat sanctuary here. Well, much like us, they don’t take on cats that…
01:03:07
they can’t take care of, although they do take in feral cats. But if they get, it used to be if they got in cats that had AIDS or leukemia, they would euthanize them. And they would just still call themselves no-kill because they didn’t kill the ones that were adoptable, that weren’t passing on. So the term no-kill I have found after talking to a lot of other no-kill organizations is no-kill sort of in quotes. No-kill except for the ones that we have to.
01:03:33
As far as I’m concerned, unless it’s in irreversible pain, you don’t have to. Now, federal guidelines may say that you have to for certain wildlife, but then there have been lots of laws over the years that have told people they have to do things. My ancestors were told that they have to go into concentration camps, so that was the law. So just because it’s a law doesn’t mean it’s right. And as far as I’m concerned, any law that tells me I have to compromise my moral standards
01:04:03
by killing animals that don’t need to be killed is a law that maybe should be changed. So if we have to, we’ll work on getting those laws changed, or at least there being possibility for there to be local adjustments to the law depending on circumstances of the local environment. Isn’t that right? What do you think? Is that a good idea? Is it a good idea? I think so too, exactly.
01:04:33
So that’s where we stand. I’d say you have a captive audience, but he’s free to go. He’s here because he loves you. She’s my baby. Well, you are absolutely someone who shows in every breath that you honor life and you really have…
01:04:54
given animals, you know, a freedom flag. The bottom line is I am not capable of killing an animal that doesn’t need to be put out of its misery because it’s in pain. I just don’t have that in me. I can’t hunt. I can’t slaughter an animal. I’m a wuss when it comes to killing an animal.
01:05:21
And I’m not going to compromise my own moral standards by bending to guidelines that say that I should. Because I don’t feel I should. I feel that it’s wrong to euthanize an animal unnecessarily. And whatever I have to do to stand up for my personal moral convictions, that’s what I’m going to have to do.
01:05:42
Well, I hope that our viewers that may be from all around Maui and all around the world will be supportive in any and every way they can. Yeah, you have a website, right? Our website is boo-boo-zoo.org. Boo-boo-zoo.org. Boo-boo-zoo.org. Okay, and if they want to be giving, like you say, you can give things and money and whatever is…
01:06:10
Thank you for visiting, Will Sildon. Our pleasure. Thank you. Aloha. Aloha. There is no other one
01:06:36
What I feel here for you Holding you in my arms Cradle you with my love
01:06:53
You’re all dressed in white Looking in your eyes Tell all the world Tonight I’ll be falling You’re my shining star From this day on
01:07:13
I’ll be your friend, I’ll be by your side Blessed are we this night Shower us with His love Will you be mine tonight Giving you all my love
01:07:42
And when we look back at our wedding day This band of gold that we will share Never ending love for all my life then
01:08:03
I do
