Maui Neutral Zone – Gloves Off – Jason with Lisa Darcy, Share Your Mana – re : Houselessness in Maui County Maui County is blessed to have an independent caring non profit which helps for people that “Fall thru the cracks”, or worse, the chasms in the system in Maui County http://shareyourmana.org. http://MauiNeutralzone.com Since this recording, things have gotten even WORSE. Enough is Enough, People of Maui County. Let’s help the houseless…things are only Beginning !!! … SUPPLEMENT (from JWS): TODAY is April 13, 2023. February 10 started a homeless plight, STILL ongoing… 5 phones taken ad. replaced , DirectDeposit monies hacked 3 times in 3 months, 75 years old and disabled with a walker on the streets of Kahului, Wailuku and Kihei, with NO available shelter or mental health treatment or assistance or self esteem and personal growth and intervention ? Really? Sadly, yes… and more… teeth dentures broken in a street engagement, not replaced, nowhere to be, community of the streets?
Summary & Transcript
Introduction and Context
Jason Schwartz hosts a personal, in-person discussion at the Maui Neutral Zone with guest Lisa Darcy, Executive Director and founder of Share Your Mana, a Maui-based nonprofit focused on supporting unhoused and unsheltered residents. The conversation aims to move beyond Zoom’s limitations to convey the urgency and human element of Maui’s homelessness crisis. Lisa highlights that the County’s approach to homelessness has not evolved to meet changing needs, resulting in systemic failures. She stresses the importance of flexibility and immediate response, which nonprofits can often provide but government agencies struggle to implement due to bureaucracy.
Lisa explains that homelessness is not a monolith; different categories and causes require tailored approaches. She frames homelessness as an “equation” with many components that can either create problems or solutions, emphasizing the need for risk-taking and innovation without fear of imperfect outcomes. The discussion sets the stage to focus on specific realities and meaningful solutions.
Specific Challenges of Homelessness in Maui
Lisa details the complexity of homelessness in Maui:
- Reasons people become unhoused vary widely, including house loss, economic pressures, and systemic gaps.
- The high cost of living exacerbates the problem, pushing more people into homelessness.
- Shelters and housing options are severely limited, creating a revolving door where people cycle in and out without long-term stability.
- Drop-in centers in every district (“moku”) are essential but lacking. During the pandemic, community centers remained closed despite being ideal safe spaces offering showers, food, and social services.
- Community members often misunderstand or stigmatize unhoused people, particularly regarding trash and cleanliness. Lisa proposes a one-month trash pickup stop for all residents to illustrate how difficult it is for unhoused people to manage waste without services, highlighting the unfairness in blaming them.
Lisa stresses the lack of infrastructure and support for basic human needs like hygiene, food, and shelter, which leads to deteriorating mental health and hopelessness. She invites viewers to experience homelessness firsthand to gain empathy and understanding.
Mental Health, Social Services, and Systemic Failures
Lisa discusses the link between homelessness and mental health deterioration:
- Homelessness often triggers or worsens mental illness due to constant stress and trauma.
- Family and friends may struggle to help because they lack training to understand behavioral changes linked to mental illness.
- Maui has some of the worst mental health outcomes in the nation, with inadequate resources and long wait times for therapy or social work support.
- Social workers are often overwhelmed—seeing dozens or hundreds of clients monthly with only minimal time allotted per person.
- There is a lack of investment in local training and education for social workers and mental health professionals to work effectively with unhoused populations.
- Lisa has sacrificed personal income to focus on frontline work and relies heavily on community support to sustain Share Your Mana.
The current mental health and social service systems are fragmented, underfunded, and unable to meet demand, perpetuating homelessness and crises.
Legal and Criminalization Issues
Lisa shares a detailed story illuminating the criminalization of homelessness:
- Maui County has installed numerous no-parking signs near common sleeping areas, legally enabling citations for sleeping in cars or on public land.
- A couple accrued nearly $700 in fines within weeks for sleeping in areas now prohibited, with no shelter or alternatives available.
- Courts do not provide public defenders for these fines, as the offenses do not carry jail time but impose heavy financial burdens.
- The individuals experience immense stress, psychiatric challenges, and loss of belongings, yet are treated as criminals for simply surviving.
- The legal system fails to recognize the humanity and dignity of unhoused people, instead perpetuating a cycle of fines, court appearances, and hardship.
- This cycle represents “legal violence” and systemic cruelty that exacerbates suffering.
Lisa calls out the County’s complicity and the moral failure of treating poverty and homelessness through punitive measures rather than support.
Barriers to Solutions and Leadership Challenges
Lisa describes repeated efforts to propose solutions to housing and homelessness:
- She has submitted multiple proposals to County Housing and Human Concerns, the Mayor’s office, and the County Council, all largely ignored or shelved.
- A specialized focus on unhoused populations within housing departments is absent; responsibilities are combined with general housing/rental issues, diluting attention.
- There is resistance within leadership to adopt new or innovative approaches and a fear of perceived failure.
- Political dynamics include removal of funding for key projects like the “parking lot project” meant to provide temporary safe parking and basic services, which was illegally cut from the budget despite council efforts to restore it.
- The County issues rapid Requests for Proposals (RFPs) with unrealistic deadlines, deterring nonprofits from applying to administer services.
- Lisa suspects the County fears creating “sanctuaries” or housing solutions will attract more homeless people from outside Maui, preferring to maintain the status quo to avoid drawing attention or responsibility.
Lisa points to a disconnect between community willingness to help and government inaction or obstruction.
Cultural and Community Dimensions
The interview highlights the importance of recognizing the Native Hawaiian context:
- Native Hawaiians are disproportionately impacted by housing loss, but culturally they view themselves as houseless but not homeless—connected to land and community in ways that Western frameworks do not capture.
- Land dispossession and historical trauma continue to affect housing stability and community cohesion.
- Lisa advocates for including Native Hawaiians with lived experience at decision-making tables with full authority.
- The broader community includes many people who want to help but lack organized opportunities or information.
- Community involvement through neighborhood associations and civic engagement is essential to creating collective solutions.
- The influx of outsiders buying property without community investment strains resources and weakens local commitment to solving homelessness.
Lisa emphasizes that morality and compassion must guide community response.
Call to Action and Personal Engagement
Lisa makes a passionate plea for individual and collective responsibility:
- The life expectancy gap between housed and unhoused populations in Maui is about 27 years less for the unhoused, illustrating the severity of the crisis.
- Emergency responders, police, and social workers face immense strain operating within a system that lacks humane solutions.
- She calls for empathy, education, and persistence from community members, urging them to:
- Contact local council members to voice concerns and demand humane policies.
- Get involved in community associations and civic processes.
- Challenge stigma and misinformation about homelessness.
- Support organizations like Share Your Mana that provide direct aid and advocacy.
- Lisa encourages people to “get activated” by aligning with their moral compass and extending care beyond family to neighbors and strangers.
- She acknowledges the emotional exhaustion but stresses the importance of long-term commitment and creative problem-solving over mere power struggles.
Closing Thoughts
Lisa reflects on her role as a “rock” in the stream—a foundation for others to build upon without attachment to specific outcomes. She shares the beauty and resilience she has witnessed within the homeless community, urging viewers to see the humanity and potential in those facing homelessness.
Jason and Lisa agree to continue this dialogue in future shows, focusing on finesse and collaboration rather than force. They close with a call for viewers to move from passive observation to active engagement, emphasizing that meaningful change requires everyone’s participation.
Key Insights and Conclusions
- Homelessness in Maui is a complex, evolving crisis driven by high living costs, inadequate housing, mental health challenges, and systemic failures.
- Government agencies often lack flexibility and responsiveness, leading nonprofits like Share Your Mana to fill critical gaps.
- Criminalizing homelessness through fines and no-parking laws exacerbates suffering and undermines dignity.
- Mental health services are under-resourced and ill-equipped to support unhoused individuals effectively.
- There is a critical need for culturally informed approaches, especially respecting Native Hawaiian perspectives and leadership.
- Community involvement, education, and moral engagement are essential to breaking the cycle of homelessness and neglect.
- Leadership inertia, fear of failure, and political dynamics hinder innovative solutions and resource allocation.
- Immediate, practical actions such as reopening drop-in centers and providing safe parking can make a difference but require political will.
- Sustained advocacy and empathy can build bridges between housed and unhoused communities, fostering resilience and hope.
Summary Table: Challenges and Proposed Solutions
| Challenge | Description | Proposed Solution(s) |
|---|---|---|
| High Cost of Living | Drives more people into homelessness | Affordable housing development, housing subsidies |
| Lack of Shelter/Housing | Shelters are full; no long-term stable housing available | Expand emergency shelters, create drop-in centers |
| Mental Health Crisis | Poor access to timely, quality mental health care | Invest in training, increase mental health staffing |
| Criminalization of Homelessness | Fines and citations for sleeping in public/parking areas | Decriminalize homelessness, provide safe parking |
| Lack of Government Flexibility | Bureaucracy impedes rapid response | Delegate more authority to nonprofits, flexible funding |
| Stigma and Community Fear | Misunderstanding leads to fear and rejection | Public education, community engagement programs |
| Political Obstruction and Inaction | Projects shelved, funding cut, short RFP deadlines | Transparent processes, longer RFP periods, accountability |
| Cultural Insensitivity | Native Hawaiian views and rights overlooked | Include Native Hawaiian leadership at decision-making |
| Lack of Basic Services (showers, trash) | Hygiene and sanitation needs unmet | Reopen community centers, provide trash access |
FAQ (Based on Transcript Content)
Q: Why has homelessness worsened in Maui?
A: Due to high living costs, lack of affordable housing, inadequate shelter capacity, and insufficient mental health and social services. The County has not adapted its approach to these evolving challenges.
Q: What is Share Your Mana?
A: A Maui nonprofit founded by Lisa Darcy to provide flexible, immediate support to unhoused residents, filling gaps left by government agencies.
Q: Are unhoused people criminalized?
A: Yes, through no-parking laws and citations for sleeping in cars or public areas, despite lack of alternatives.
Q: Why haven’t proposed solutions been implemented?
A: Political resistance, fear of failure, short timelines for grants/RFPs, and concerns about attracting more homeless people to Maui.
Q: How can community members help?
A: Engage with local council members, volunteer with nonprofits, educate themselves and others, and participate in neighborhood and civic associations.
Q: What role does culture play in solutions?
A: Native Hawaiian perspectives emphasize land connection and community inclusion; their leadership and lived experience must be central to effective strategies.
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[Music] thank you aloha I’m Jason Schwartz your host here at the Maui neutral zone and I’m here with a guest that you’ve seen before we were on Zoom the last time but I thought that we’d add one more thing this time being we’re doing it in personal maybe you can feel the energy even more than on Zoom because uh after seeing Zoom for the last couple of years I want you to know a lot of things we speak about really need to be felt very directly and personally and that’s why I brought Lisa
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back you know I haven’t been doing any shows since the election my last election was now mayor Richard Bisson so I hope that this show is seen by Richard Bisson and his staff or his staff or everybody and it’s a meaningful show that will give them some help and direction and what’s going on and also motivate you guys to encourage the mayor and anyone else that you know to help about this problem and what’s the problem well here’s not a problem this is Lisa Darcy Lisa is the executive director of share your Mana
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which is a non-profit here in Maui County uh Lisa why are we meeting today what what are you doing why are we doing this thank you for having me today Jason uh yes I am the founder of sharia mana and a long time resident of Maui County 20 years I worked with the Department of Health worked with many other of the social service agencies on the island and really determined that the best use of the skill set that I had was to actually start working with the residents that were living unhoused and unsheltered the
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term homeless is a big big breaststroke and the more that I started to work with individuals and really listen to them the more I recognized we this this County hasn’t evolved in how that it approaches working with the different categories of need and that’s I think one of the major stumbling blocks is that if if the top down doesn’t stay current with the evolution of need and how the currents are moving and What needs more attention here and What needs this here if you just keep doing the
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same thing over and over again obviously life evolves and changes and it’s not muting people’s needs so I think that’s why pretty much I started share your Mana is to help the community to understand that there are different approaches um because I wasn’t having a whole lot of luck with the agencies in terms of their ability to be flexible and with the nonprofit you can be super flexible you know if you don’t take Government funding or state funding I I respond to people’s needs in in sometimes the exact
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hour that it’s happening and when you have a big agency it can’t respond to that and that’s another one of the reasons why I did this was to really support all of the needs that were happening you know in in the moment um and then of course as I’ve been doing this for many years now recognize that the fires are everywhere now because there’s not enough proactive and there’s not enough meeting things in this moment and they just Blossom and they blossom then they turn into these pretty big
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fires so that’s that’s the idea behind share your mana and and to also recognize that everything is an equation and I look everything is an equation and everything has different components that go into it to make either a problem or a solution and there are quite a few solutions that we can adopt um and it’s just really about motivating people to I think understand that change is and taking risks are really good and they’re not and not to be frightened of them because I I sense that a lot of
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organizations and people are afraid of taking the risk and then not having the perfect outcome but there are no perfect outcomes in any of this so it’s for me I’m like just go for it all the time as I’m hearing you I’m hearing this is a heady thing but let’s look at what we mean by real problems and what do you do let’s get into what we’re talking about okay so we’re not talking about all the houseless people or are we are we let’s talk soon get specific so that we can be
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meaningful to our viewers okay specifics and let them feel with their heart a little bit because like you say everything’s an equation but it gets down to real people in real lives and problems that need attention right now that aren’t getting the attention it needs and uh it’s gotten epidemic it’s more it’s it’s overwhelming how many homeless and houseless people there are some through circumstances of their house has been sold and they’re now on the street can’t
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find a place or some whatever a myriad of reasons people are on the street so give some specifics and let’s try to if we can get to something juicy so that we can if you were the mayor you’d say hey what about this why aren’t they doing that I think it’s really important because I don’t really know how much information is trickling up to be able to make a good decision so that’s a really important Point here is what what trickles up there’s nothing should be trickling up it it needs to
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have a direct lightning bolt Rod right you know um I did an interview with the mayor’s office when he first came out and they asked me what my dream position would be and I said I would be the person that you want to know what’s happening on the ground and you want to know exactly how this is happening I’m I’m that person like you I would almost you know act as kind of an advisor because um of the raw and authentic real relationships that I’ve been able to build with people so the larger picture
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I know you want specifics no good you have to understand the context so in most people there are so many people that kind of look at this from their armchair and and from what they read in the paper and what you read in the paper is a narrative that hasn’t really and and what I see has not been an honest narrative it has been a very narrow view of things and so the larger broader education is not getting to people so there are so many reasons people are houseless unhoused uh homeless unsheltered and these are all different
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kind of things and and they all like you said there’s a myriad of reasons why this happened what I want to tell the community is this is there’s nothing to stop this from getting worse there’s no impediment there is nothing in place that’s going to stop this from getting worse and then we get these covid monies or we get the things to throw at it but there’s nothing in the process that’s interrupting this from happening and part of the context is the High Cost of Living on Maui is it’s it it’s on the
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run it’s out of control and if you don’t have a recognition that more people are going to this is going to become even take a larger group of people in and make it bigger if you don’t have that recognition and you’re not working like 110 on I’m working on that along with people who are just cycling in and out there’s so many the the shelters are designed to help people kind of part-time and you get a chunk of time you have to pay rent and then you gotta you gotta find a place but there’s no
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there’s no housing there’s no housing for people to find really that much right and so either it’s a it’s a cycle that’s empty it’s an empty there’s no there’s no end it’s for it right so you so people are just cycling and cycle out and you know the reports come in from that we housed all these people in the same place that they usually kind of revolve people into the same and the same apartment and the agency really looks like they’re housing all these people then they get bumped out or
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if they whatever they get kicked away well those are the lucky ones that are getting housing they don’t even try it’s so complicated there is no room at the end and there are not enough ends it’s complicated because we don’t have any larger solution and one of the um in my experience over the years is there must be uh drop-in centers in every moku there must be and I think you know I during the pandemic I urged the mayor I wrote letters we got petitions to open the community centers what an
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amazing opportunity that was there were showers there people could drop food off you could perhaps Social Services come um everything families I mean like that was to me just like a gold mine and then they sat closed the entire time and people were scrounging water was turned off you know tourists that were here that usually give money and food would that dried up the all the stores closed so people couldn’t go dumpster diving and get food they couldn’t get they couldn’t get um leftovers they couldn’t
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charge their phones because everything right and I thought here you have this amazing opportunity to actually have people come to a safe place and have Community that’s really important in this have community and and it it just it went ignored so if you’re gonna if you’re gonna not pay attention to the solutions that are right in front of us and um that’s the kind of stuff I if leadership doesn’t take that and say wow this is amazing let’s do this then I’m I mean like we’re kind of we gotta we
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gotta figure out what’s to do with our leadership now that the pandemic is over and these places are open again it’s still a it’s still a model that can be used um we have we’ve had these big box stores how long have they been closed for and again they haven’t been utilized we’ve got parking lots that haven’t been utilized and there is this incredible pushback because most community members are really uh uninformed and they’re they really have no education and what
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they see is people making trash so I would like to say I would like the trash system to stop for everybody for one month on Maui House people now all have to bring their trash to the dump okay for let’s just do it for one month not forever just for one month let’s see the mayor bring his trash to the dog okay you everybody it stops I want to see what Maui would look like after a month if there was no trash pickup so if you can’t afford trash pickup I would like everybody to stop criticizing
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people that don’t have the ability to walk their trash every day to the dump there’s no bus that goes there there’s no place for them to do this like so if you are in incredible poverty what are you going to do with your trash and there’s nothing I mean like and what do you do I do not eat things people do sometimes people gift you food do not take it because you don’t want to make Trash like it’s it’s such a an Insidious cycle that that people who are unhoused are dirty because they don’t have they
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don’t have a place they don’t have any of the support to not be dirty you know unless you have a larger if they have larger Community yeah or what somebody in their Ohana has car or something and there are people in the community I’ve seen and there actually are some County workers that when people keep their trash and they put it out they’ll just sort of sweep by and pick it up and amen to those County workers that do that even though that’s not on the route and that’s not part of their job there are
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quite a few that are really doing some beautiful work but why does it have to be why do we have to sneak around why isn’t it just supported and why does the community criticize people who don’t can’t afford trash pickup like I mean it’s so baffling to me that that’s where you get stuck when somebody is so suffering and in such humanitarian crisis which leads to mental health deterioration and just plain old apathy so if you have never experienced being houseless and being walked by on the street or stepped over
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like you don’t exist or you are a piece of trash I would welcome everybody to come around with me I’d like you to come around spend a week and and sit on a sidewalk and with don’t take a shower you don’t get a shower for at least a week or you can’t get some food and you go to an agency you walk there and they say they’ll get back to you and they don’t um you can’t you have a phone but you can’t you don’t have a house you don’t charge it so you see what it’s like to
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try and call all of the names on the list your phone dies or you put it down because you go to go to the bathroom and it’s stolen I want you to come around and see what it’s like and I think your perspective would be very very different um and and I hear people commenting on the work that I do that you know like I’m agitating people or I’m you know um I’m just being difficult and and I think that you were to come around I I have patience for people that make criticisms of the work that I’m doing a
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lot of patients because they don’t know but I I can be critical of the fact that they’re not trying to understand what about the helping part I you know I we have nothing in place for that even individuals could help and I don’t see that because you need it organized it’s not it’s not always so easy I went when I was really kind of orchestrating everything that happened down at Amala and several other encampments one of the things that could happen is you could get you could get
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um several churches come down like in the same hour on the same day and deliver because it wasn’t organized and then everybody would have this abundance of food or it wasn’t you know and it doesn’t get sealed it could go bad because they don’t have refrigeration and and yet then the rest of the week there’s they don’t have food you know a hot meal delivered so um unless you actually have somebody and I was talking with the Maui Hub way back when about kind of organizing but you
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actually need a an actual determined person yeah I mean I make these solutions to the Department of Housing and human concerns it falls on deaf ears all day long all day long and I think until we have somebody in a leadership position that takes these items very seriously and understands that if you did have somebody who was organizing um community members meal deliveries and there’s a lot of beautiful community members who do do this and there are churches that do this and organizations but then you’ve got the trash you know
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what happens to the trash and you’re talking about that’s just one of these are homeless right there are people that don’t have community that are out on their own and and yeah I hear are you saying and it’s a growing problem if you don’t really know it you just have to drive you know it’s unbelievable to me because there isn’t anything to interrupt it and that’s the other piece that uh critical and I’ve gone for years without the agency’s Willing being willing to
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collaborate and I hear all the time well that’s not the way we do it and it might exactly that’s why I’m presenting a different um point of view or maybe trying something different uh and I honestly to be honest to really really honest I think people are afraid of the perception of failing and and feeling um like people are gonna judge them if they fail and the criticism that will come with that and I’m so I’m so over like the criticism I’m so used to it it’s it’s all part of it
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um yeah I know that they criticize you for trying to console someone or give them food or help because they don’t unders they don’t understand the whole problem so it’s okay they don’t understand the cause that these people if you speak to the people you could tell me I can tell you some people that are homeless they’re not all without aptitude they’re people that are now when you get homeless mental illness starts immediately because you’re dealing with things yeah way outside the the realm of what you
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think is normal you can’t do any of that everything is on high alert the whole world yeah you know what I I had the most beautiful conversation with somebody in um in the car yesterday and I was driving um be back and forth to court and he was talking he’s a he’s a vet and he worked some jobs and he had a slow deterioration in his life it wasn’t like this just one incident happened it was a slow deterioration of of several things and you slip into this state of almost depression and without even really
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knowing it and an apathy without really even knowing it and and family members and friends they don’t know how to treat it because they’re family and friends and you need trained skilled people who understand why people’s behaviors change and oh that person’s just being lazy but you you’ve got to understand the illness and that the illness is this I always put it like a little Gremlin on the shoulder and you’ve got to be able sometimes they’ll like distract the illness to get into the person and if
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you don’t have that skill set then oftentimes family and friends can actually make the situation a lot worse because they don’t know and it’s not their fault and then everybody suffers and I give so much um sympathy to the to the family members that are trying but they don’t have again we have that we have some of the worst mental health probably in the nation in Maui County and I say that because I came here because of the lawsuit with the fields decree 20 years ago and that the fact that they were
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saying that the the mental health here are some of the worst that they’d ever seen in the country and it’s done nothing but get worse and there’s no seemingly interest by our leadership to solve this and that’s where I think I have extraordinary frustration is when you educate people and then they don’t take actions they do well they could really be funding a lot more education and support and you know like Kaiser uh the social workers were for a long time and I’m not quite even sure what’s going on that is
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not and God you know the social workers that are sticking it out because they get 20 minutes a month is what they’re allotted with somebody like if you understand that’s what’s happening then you can start to put some of the puzzle together but if you don’t understand that’s happening then you’re just going to criticize things and I where we want to do is we I want to ignite people’s curiosity and say then what you know really why is this happening without it being a criticism but what is the
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Curiosity behind this happening and and really how do we we get ahead and be proactive instead of everything is always reactive you know I tried to do the even just the parking lot um project and that got just politically uh just sidelined and if we can’t even come together as as leadership to say okay a place for 20 people 20 people in and out nobody would even note it like in the it like if you we can’t even suggest that that has a chance then then it’s a pretty it’s a pretty sad State of Affairs that doesn’t
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mean you give up it just means yeah you recognize that there’s something big has got to change well it’s going to get worse and then what happens I don’t know I don’t know we just keep we just keep doing the best we can do and I have to tell you the relationships that I have built with the community that I have met is some of the most beautiful loving relationships I’ve ever experienced and some of the the definitely taught me the most as a human being and um I see professional uh guidance in in
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other Realms even outside of Maui because there really is there’s no investment in training people so many social workers don’t have degrees they don’t have any any experience before they go into having to deal with somebody who’s really needs the highest degree like if you’re working with someone who’s unhoused you need somebody who’s really skilled not just beginning in the social work field and unfortunately we don’t have any this is one of the things that like
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more legislative and real training like real uh clinical training you need a lot of clinical training not just uh you have a big heart and that you know because this is this is these are some pretty significant equations that need to be dealt with um psychiatrically financially um politically so you need to have some some Savvy about all of those and and we just don’t there’s no investment in local education and or like this is a great job this is a great thing to do and and people’s salaries are have been
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junk forever and I gave my salary up I just said I’m not even gonna stress it because I just wanna I just want to focus on what I’m doing and I’m just going to trust the the community will support me and they have it’s that’s the only reason sure your Mana exists is that the community does want this information they do want to learn and um not everybody but a lot of people do so I’ve been I’ve still been able miraculously to keep going and to keep providing really clear experience and
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direct experience and support people with lived experience to tell their stories what I mean we can go on forever you want to tell a story I want to talk about the parking lot today I mean some of these issues need to the public I’d like to talk a little bit about court yesterday okay so um it is legal to give people citations who sleep in their car overnight on certain pieces of land unless it’s private property and then you have to try to be a big people but Maui County in the last five six seven
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years has systematically that you people probably noticed this even like down in baby Beach and sparklesville the no parking signs now and that’s a good like I think that was a good reason why that happened and because they can’t there’s no emergency access however all the signs that went up on Amala place all of the signs that went up in front of Salvation Army behind the church property um all the ones that go out of Kahului Beach Road and I am only in like a three mile radius looking at this I haven’t
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looked at the whole County but within a three mile radius the county has over the last couple of years put up enormous amounts of no parking signs which gives them the legal authority to ticket anybody who’s sleeping there or parked there okay so here this is how criminalization works this is kind of like the extension of Jim Crow if you know anything about the Jim Crow laws the people in poverty are now and they and of course the shelters are always full there there’s no room in the shelters and we have never expanded our
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filters they put the pallets up 20. they bought like 200 of the pallets so I don’t know what happened to all the rest of them but only like 25 went up and then they got taken down and the crisis isn’t over so why were they taken down okay so even there’s no parking signs now in front of the shelter um so that means that all people who have have been able to sleep on the side of the roads or do you know and and at least sleep there um are no longer able to do that with without being criminals you’re now
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criminalized you’re now an official a criminal for being unhoused so I met this couple a couple months ago that within like three weeks accrued something like close to 700 worth of fines and citations because they’re now sleeping on land that they put the signs up now they’re under the they they call every day like where they were for a while then they gave up trying to get into the one shelter and then the other one they’ve been under the care and the ones that they they get quite a bit of
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funding quite a bit of funding to support this community um yeah never they come out maybe once a month or and they call and you know and they don’t really unless they’re you know and even I call them and say listen you gotta you gotta help these people so I went to court with one of the gentlemen yesterday and we went in and he filled this paper out for a public defender he went up in front of the judge and the judge said you are not entitled to a public defender because there’s no jail time
26:18
associated with this it’s just fine so you can if I’m guilty you’re going to be fined between fifty to a thousand dollars now this is somebody who lost his job he hasn’t been working his wife isn’t working and I’m going to care of these agencies and he has to go stand in front of a judge as a criminal just because there’s nowhere for him to go he wants to work she wants they want to they’ve been psychiatrically under enormous stress they’ve had stuff stolen and they have to fight anyway so I pick
26:46
him up we go to court he’s in front of the judge and um so the judge says do you want to get a lawyer or are you going to represent yourself he’s no but he never this is his first time like he doesn’t know what this is going at it gets intimidating when you go up and stand in front of the judge and even very it was a very nice Dodge um and so he’s like well I don’t have any money how he didn’t say that but of course he didn’t say this like he didn’t say to the judge I’m homeless I’m a
27:12
houseless I have no job I can’t pay for that he was too prideful and he just everybody gets in front of the judge and they want to put on their best face they want to be like I can do this that they really they don’t they don’t let people know their circumstances and so we laughed with him saying he’s gonna represent himself and we don’t know what I mean like who does this although I did go online to uh uh law school and I’m like maybe I’ll beat him I’m looking to be coming getting
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some long degree but um so we laughed with him now having to go back and he can get all these tickets and then you get more tickets in the meantime and there’s nowhere for him to go and yet he can be fined all this money for breathing and living as a a a he’s a he’s a good person and he’s and yet now he’s he’s criminal he’s a criminal and if he can’t pay this he’s gonna you know when he go to jail what’s gonna happen I don’t even know if you can’t pay your fines or then they’re
28:08
going to give you all this community service right they’ll say oh in lieu of it he’s not a criminal he shouldn’t have to do community service he shouldn’t have to pay this he shouldn’t be in front of his judge this is a this is this is how our taxpayer money is being used it’s so offensive and so cruel and I had to pick him up and drive him we had to get someone to watch his stuff you know like what if you had to take all your your doors off of your your place where you live
28:33
and you had to have every time you went to an appointment or you left your place you had to go out and get somebody to watch your stuff like I want everyone to take their doors and their Windows off and then try and live a normal life and you can’t do it and you can’t do it and yet there’s this X and then people say oh people are lazy I tell you this story to wrap it I’m gonna put it one example and if every story is and I I can’t I can’t get to and I can’t even get to in a three mile radius I can’t
29:03
begin to get to all the crises and I mean intense crises which fills up our jails okay and and then people say oh you know we’re letting criminals go this is a complicated and you know if you you really need to research all of the Dynamics before you uh make any uh statements on the criminal justice system which is another story but I tell you the story about going to this because on our drive back to his his car his truck he was pretty much in tears saying you know I’m a vet I did everything I could to Serve and
29:41
Protect this country and this isn’t even just if you’re a vet but he said I I am so on edge I am so frightened all the time in the country that is I I fought to protect and the way that I’m he said I’m the criminal now and and he said so elegantly I I really wish I had um had my audio tape on it was so elegant and so beautiful because he’s very much he really he’s he really wants to work he really wants to get his life back together and you can’t in those circumstances until you
30:19
have a place where all your stuff is safe and then you know again at any time the county can come by and just take everything and that’s supposedly legal we’re waiting to hear from the Supreme Court that that’s legal because he looks like he’s a piece of trash and I just want you to I want people to know I’m sick of this I am sick of this cycle I’m sick of chasing down and cleaning up after the immense harm and and and and crises that our county is complicit with and it’s it’s legal violence and it’s
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it’s it’s unacceptable and anybody who wants to even try to utter and I’m not even I don’t want to appropriate aloha that nobody can utter that word on this island if you are in any way connected with any of this Behavior or any of these processes or systems there’s nowhere you can and um as somebody who holds a different a spiritual belief on I’m telling you it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s unacceptable it’s unacceptable and um I will learn more about the law if
31:25
that’s the if that’s the Avenue that I have to go which is you know not something that I was trained in but that’s only one person I mean the biggest thing that constantly comes in my mind is you know where you can only handle so many just like you say the caseworkers if they were trained but still the doctors and what are they seeing 300 400 people a month they have no time to serve even if they’re trained so what do we need why if we can help people from other countries can’t we put
31:57
up big tents and have bathrooms facilities and power and why why all of those proposals I’ve had all kinds of proposals that I put forward I did a to who to the county well to the County Council and to the County Housing human concerns to the mayor it’s gone to everybody that has any ability to do this and it’s shelved everything is shelved and I can’t explain that but I do know that with the reappointment of the the previous housing and human concerns that we we will likely I don’t know how we’re going
32:36
to see much change so you’re talking about Lori suhaco in the housing compartment and human concerns now when I call there and they’re talking about people that are buying houses as well as the rental why is there nothing specialized that focuses on the unhoused on the rental right why is that not happening why is this all in one Department she’s in charge of it so she’s like needs to be in two totally different camps yeah and one of the you know I’ve had I put so many proposals forward and no I
33:11
mean it’s really good I mean you sent me the one about the the uh the parking I mean I could almost pick almost any issue that I’ve seen you work on where you come up with Solutions and they’re not acting on it and they’re not even acknowledging it they’re not putting it out anywhere for people to say I’ll volunteer I have money I’ll do this we need as a community and that’s what I I I’m I’m convinced that I people on Maui there are so many people that actually want to help and I think that
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one of the core values of Maui has really been lost and without the recognition that Hawaiians belong on their land native Hawaiians belong in their land no native Hawaiian person is houseless or homeless they’re houseless but they’re not homeless and until this County wraps its head around that this is we’re all existing I’m existing on Stolen land and the the the the the absolute Terror that was inflicted upon the Hawaiian people when the missionaries came over and how their land and how
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they were you know snickered out of their land it’s just like what happened with um you know the the Native Americans on the mainland it’s it’s a it’s just another it’s just another chapter out of that system and that one thing is super clear to me is that individuals with lived experience who are Hawaiian absolutely should have carte blanche at the table and they it shouldn’t they they shouldn’t I would I don’t have I’ve never owned land because I don’t believe
35:01
in only land I don’t think I don’t I never believed that I should ever own land it’s not mine I don’t believe the Earth belong anything um I’m really uncomfortable even that houses exist in the way that they do because you’re taking things out and it’s not getting put back or it’s not getting nourished properly so I don’t have that mindset made of the the community members that I have met also think this way they don’t they don’t necessarily no one’s looking for a
35:26
mansion or a a Bezos house they’re they’re modest very modest people and they’re um they need to be close to the to the water or to a river water is really really essential in their in their whole body in their whole and and nourishing their mana and I’ve learned this and so my point of view is this people it’s so land there’s so much tiny land why are they not able to create their own community and we you know is like that’s how you know kanaha it was we’re like
36:01
and that was that community’s name they came up with that I just said I’m just going to be your mouthpiece you you tell me what you want you’re mentioning the Hawaiians and I appreciate that that’s a major it’s a major piece of this but all kinds of people and I no I’m only reason I mention it is um I I just really don’t know why we can’t do the very basic for everyone why is there no emergency enough to consider it important to have some place I’m going to tell you what I’ve heard what I heard
36:39
is that if Maui starts creating any of these or sanctuaries that they are that the county is afraid that people are going to come from all over the country to live here so it’s better to do nothing and to keep it miserable and to keep the word on the street that it’s miserable don’t come here than it is to actually help people I really I actually think from everything that I’ve seen that that is probably even though it’s not the explanation I want to know but I actually think that’s the one that makes
37:09
the most sense so is it now in the minds of who who’s making those kind of determinations the mayor his departments the Department of Tourism I don’t know because I don’t know why the Department of Tourism isn’t heavily funding some of the nonprofits like share your mana and you know there’s a couple other that are really out on you know doing this work um and yeah and but the money all flows to the uh you know the other agencies and that’s a salaried positions of people
37:45
that are getting you know like you said not enough money they’re overworked they don’t have anything to offer there are no rooms at the shelter there’s no rooms at a Family Life Center who used to deal with single women now they only deal with families everyone’s getting overwhelmed where’s the buck stop who who exactly that’s why I’m I’m I feel like it happened to be funny about it I know it’s like and believe me I recognize the Hawaiians have been screwed you know I never
38:16
bought land here either I never would buy I didn’t want to keep encouraging mainlanders to come here to buy the land here so but that’s a whole separate issue now we’ve got this crisis where’s the emergency is that a federal thing do we have to ask the governor for emergency money it’s already and there’s an emergency Proclamation and I know that things are in the works and the other thing is I know it’s secret like why is it a secret why wouldn’t um some of the voices of the people that
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I’m working with not be invited into those conversations so I I don’t know we don’t we never get information firsthand it’s always work on the street or somebody who’s really cares anymore let’s get very specific and information we did get you and I said it to me I went to see what the healing solutions for homelessness group was because some at the mayor’s office said you know how you could really help is join a board or Council so I looked down on the list and you know I variants and appeals and culture
39:20
this is just but what about housing so I went to that meeting to see what it was all about and I heard a report from Lori suhaco’s and housing that the idea about a um the parking lot that mayor Victorino said how about parking lot like one next to the and they just said well we had a bed but they wouldn’t do all the things that we wanted no there was no bid she said there was no bid oh there was no bit I thought that was a bid but no one would but that’s what she meant about that no
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one would take on that responsibility for the money and that’s it so do we not help those people do we right what do we do now right right right so that’s the fascinating thing what about the leadership that is baffling first of all the amount of time and energy that went into creating that project and then the fact that the mayor illegally took it out of the budget councilmember King actually made a resolution to put it back in the budget in its proper form the majority of the council I think only
40:20
King Molina and sinensi voted to return it in its proper way the rest of the council members voted to allow the mayor to take it illegally out which was incorrect and myself and king Council King said we want to be clear that on the record we do not agree with this and we believe and even Corp Council was it was bizarre that his lawyers were like no you they can do this and I was like it doesn’t seem it’s a little bit odd and then but why wouldn’t you keep it in its in Integrity so anyway time went on
40:53
and I we know we threw our hands and said okay whatever you know if they’re gonna if they’re gonna yeah take it out and do whatever then they’re going to do whatever um yeah then it turns out that we get this these surprise announcements that um Corporation Council was actually wrong so his lawyers were wrong and it needs to go back in the way it was supposed to like council member King and myself were saying and but this is months and a lot of energy and a lot of you know fact-finding and so you got to
41:21
keep up with this but I’m always on the like I said the defensive and it’s it’s nuts because we’re supposed to be on the same team together and then out of nowhere she says we’re gonna there’s gonna be an RFP which is the way that it was intended to be so go out to bid a request for an agency which gave one week they gave one week you can’t you can’t manage a request for in one week they usually you get two to three months or I mean like to actually do a a request I knew I
41:51
couldn’t do it in a week and I don’t even know how many people thought people didn’t even know that was happening it went out and some you have to sign up for the alerts and if you don’t then anyway um yeah and then she came back in the next meeting and said oh by the way nobody applied making it sound like it was the fault of the communities but it wasn’t you it’s an agency issue is a department head she can’t put it out for one week and expect people are going to be able to manage that that is not
42:16
acceptable and most people don’t know this who write great yeah not everybody writes grants and so it looks like there was no interest which is not true there was interest and in it just was not it wasn’t given the the the the the normal time it was given this so what do we do about that hijacked oh well we’re just gonna stick it on the shelf right which is your point is because somebody didn’t apply you should be hard-pressed Court like okay what do we do next okay nobody applied where
42:51
where do we need to interact with people to get this to happen not just oh it didn’t work out I know I know if this was your mother brother sister I mean would you stop I mean I can hardly believe that to me that’s a reason for them to be out of their job the fact that you know maybe I’m being a little radical but how do you stop when someone’s dying in front of you how do you stop when someone’s hungry when there’s no showers when there’s no way to get your own personal self and your feeling of
43:27
self-worth and dignity to a point where you can be functional so you know all this distills into in my and this is just this is a simple life philosophy it’s a moral compass and the moral compass that I possess is definitely not like everybody else’s it’s not like but the moral compass is that I I can’t sit and eat a beautiful meal when I know other people are starting all the time and doesn’t mean that you don’t stay nourished and you know because you have to um I just as a human being I just feel a
44:00
responsibility to other human beings whether it’s my neighbor whether it’s somebody in Turkey um 40 000 people and they can’t I mean like it’s unfathomable and I just to my thought is the different emergency happens on Maui who’s going to come help Maui and I don’t know that there’s going to be a whole lot of people that are going to come help Maui and Maui if and when we have a disaster which is it’s normal to have disasters I don’t I don’t think this community is
44:30
really emotionally prepared I mean they do come together like when fires and floods but um man needs of maybe that I don’t know but people are good with short-term you know like oh I can I can I can go bring some dry sweatshirts or socks like the long-term stuff is really emotionally exhausting and that’s where you need somebody skilled and trained they can navigate that and understand what’s required of that but it’s also it comes to me it just all boils down to your moral compass and when you get too many
45:01
people from off Island they buy houses here but this isn’t their community and they’re not invested they don’t go to their Community meetings they don’t do that when they just come and this is your playground you’re gonna get way too many people that can vote or just take and not and they’re not giving back and that’s a major that’s a major impediment for this community that the hardcore people that are really locked in and doing all the good work and they do it so humbly and quietly and you know some
45:30
of the social workers just keep their head down and they do the best they can every day you know they like I said they don’t get paid their worth and others you know it’s it’s still very varied in an agency to agency but there are a lot you know when you don’t when that group doesn’t get nourished as well and when they just have they grind it out every day for for an attitude of people that are just stopping by to use this as a playground the balance isn’t possible it’s it’s not
46:00
possible in the design the way that Maui is functioning right now to do that and so I we have to appeal to each person to identify what’s in your moral compass and what’s right and get inspired to join you went to the commission meeting so I want to thank you for that and I don’t want you to give up emergency has to be handled no I I can’t imagine that they’re not handling a bleeding person in front of them and thought about our emergency response people that they have to deal with all
46:36
of the emergencies for people whose body I think they were 27 year loss so if you are living unsheltered and unsheltered you know means either like in a makeshift or on the side of the road whatever you uh your expectancy your life expense expenses like 27 years less than a house person and so there’s a lot more in this so the burden on the emergency room to treat this over and over again you know and they got yourself every day and and participate in this cycle as well this insanity is God I mean I just my hands are off to a
47:13
lot of people that I don’t get a chance to say I thank you and I we see you and like the police officers that it’s their job to take it people and they know it’s not Humane it’s not part of their moral compass and yet this is the legal system that they want to keep their job they got to be bound to and the other ones that are bringing that you know are joyous they think it’s great they can muscle people around like you never know you know um so I just want to say do you see that that that
47:39
part of the community I see you sorry if I don’t get to thank you and acknowledge you as much as I do versus bringing all the problems forward because you’re a champ you know you’re the one that’s getting here to say I’m sorry I haven’t heard you but the rest of the community has to get awake there I mean why did I get awake what because I know people personally I like the word activated because I wake up but I can be really groggy when I wake up all right so I don’t I really subscribe to activated
48:13
and again really identify what your moral compass feels about somebody you don’t even know like how like a lot of people they’ll have their family oh it’s my family but if it’s somebody you don’t know but I I think it’s really important to extend the concept beyond your family because if your neighbor suffers if you really also believe in the shared breath then everything that suffering shares that same oxygen and everything that is thriving shares that same oxygen and I I
48:41
think about this every single day my oxygen is is going to end up in in in in in Turkey maybe and maybe if I have really nourished myself maybe some of my oxygen makes it there or you know and down in Patagonia I don’t know where it ends up but I think every day if you can just get inside your your compass and say okay for today I just want to try and and reach out a little more I want to get activated maybe I everybody should be involved in their Community associations everybody should be involved on my point again I’m only
49:16
breaking in because we can go on with this but getting involved with the associations to do what what are we asking yeah that’s where you come together and you hash it out and it may be bumpy and I just want to encourage people that you know people get really frustrated and their frustration comes out and then the communication shuts down but as people are Justified to be frustrated and so I’m patient with people’s frustration and it could be even the mayor’s prayer I’m patient with his frustration and if
49:48
it doesn’t come out in the perfect package that’s okay if we have trust with each other that we’re all working on the same thing then we can be more you know um flexible with the way people present and oftentimes they’re just they’re so hurt they want to be heard and it does how is it on our house this is the same thing and I think it’s really important that or else we do a practice before you step into your room that you take your breath and you take it and you you focus on
50:16
Solutions are going to come out of my mouth Solutions are are the result obviously you can always complain about anything you want if it’s attached to a solution but that’s nice well in this show you know we we talked at the beginning what do we want the outcome to be what do we want this outcome to be what do we want of these guys what do we want you to feel we want you to feel what you feel are you involved in this do you recognize I said that it was a family that sparked me people I knew that are
50:48
homeless and houseless but like you said it’s way bigger it shouldn’t be a personal thing but that’s what sparked me well what if that gets and personally be selfish what are the people around you have that problem what are you going to do now so it doesn’t get there you know why am I talking about getting information trickling it up to the leadership what what is that what ideas can we do right now by the time we get to some of the things you’re talking about I want to already are doing something one thing
51:24
is you can always um email your your local council person so figure out who your council person is when you’re wherever you live and email them and ask them what their stance is on giving citations to people that have nowhere to go ask them what their stance is on um or tell them what your stance is and because they work for you and say I want to see this I want to see and the other thing is we have to people are really fearful of this community and I have found so much incredible love in this
51:54
community and that most of the the the people who report on this really report on it in a slanted way that people are dirty and dangerous and my that has not been I have been in every tent I have been under cars I have been in some freaking cool palette little structures that I’m like someone’s in it and it’s amazing um I have been in every I’m invited in I am welcomed into people’s homes and just because it doesn’t have a fancy lock or a gate does not mean that isn’t a home
52:31
to somebody and the love there is beautiful so I and I’m not saying everybody should just walk up and knock on people’s tents or their door their car door but I want to just say that there are so many um beautiful people that don’t get seen and I want to help allay people’s fear that this community is really dangerous do people steal from each other all the time but I can tell you I know a lot of people in suits and ties that steal all the time okay so and if you don’t think
53:01
that all those fees that you’re paying for if you go to a show isn’t theft of your your money then it’s legal theft but um yeah they do just survive and I get it and it’s it’s not a big deal if and if people had what they needed to sleep and survive it wouldn’t be it wouldn’t be happening so that’s the other thing is when people are left to act like animals you got you’ve got to live in a in this you know if you if you go to jail or prison man you’re gonna you’re
53:29
gonna fall into that culture fast to survive we have all kinds of subcultures around I want to tell you that the culture that I’ve met has been loving and welcoming and I think the most beautiful compliment I ever got is from empty and I love Auntie Penny she’s like a matriarch of uh kanahan she always laughs and she goes ah My favorite white Hawaiian and uh that’s that’s what you know that’s where the gold is and that’s where the beauty is and and we’re here to listen to that community and find out
54:02
what they need not from my point of view not from a department head point of view from a realistic living point of view and so I want to say a lay your fears until you’ve come around for a week with me and I think you’ll see a very different picture and you’ll see a lot of love and you’ll actually see a lot of resilience that is so inspiring you won’t ever want to give up well you know we’re talking here you know I’m thinking I want to talk about this and I want to talk about that and
54:33
these specific situations it is a dirty business there is so much need and I would hope that everybody watching if you see someone that has a need please reach out and do something to help how can we expect if we know that this whole system is unoverwhelm for anything to get better if we don’t make our personal personal involvement do something to help and what you said you know getting to the council people I tell them I keep telling them I keep telling them I keep telling them I don’t know I ran against them
55:14
and it doesn’t get covered it’s like the whole thing how much of what you say you get you get a three minutes and you get the yeah it’s ridiculous well it’s it’s it’s it’s actually a system that yeah um you know but I I’ve been on so many I for years for 15 years I I’ve gone and testified and I also know that this may not change in my lifetime but I am here just to be a rock for someone to step on to cross the stream you know I’m just a rock in the Stream
55:44
I’m nothing more than that and so I don’t have I’m not attached to any outcome I’m not making judgment on people that are are you know just binge watching Netflix all all day long and then complaining about this and I’m not judging that um but I really would like to say that if if you want a really a much Fuller life and a life that is got immeasurable Beauty to step into some of this world because it’s extraordinarily beautiful and that piece doesn’t really even get
56:15
in it doesn’t get shown up in that three minutes so yeah so I want to share that and make sure that people know that I see incredible beauty in this in the hardship even though we’re running out of time I’m you know I may only do shows about this you know I mean how do you break through yeah I guess it’s football you got to get enough power going through to to make something move but butterfly I actually think it’s not about the power it’s about the Finesse I don’t think you power through any of
56:46
it I think you finesse through it how do we get past that’s another show that’s another show we’re going to do it a few shows on this um first of all thank you for spending the time with me I very much appreciate your passion and what you’ve been doing for so long and um I hope that you get all the support you need not only physical help and money help but that we can take this all another step yeah it’s nice to be here Jason thank you for all you do thank you thank you guys for joining us I hope
57:23
that you will um get off the couch and and do something here and write the council members the senator blessings to you everyone aloha [Music]
