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Summary & Transcript Below…
Jason with DAVID KITTS – Acupuncture on a Whole New Level
Summary & Transcript Below…Jason Schwartz opens the show from the Neutral Zone studio located in Maui, broadcasting live on KAKU 88.5 FM and simulcast on Akaku Maui Community Media Channel 55. He highlights the extensive archive of over 550 shows spanning 30 years available at MauiNeutralZone.com, encouraging audience participation in this evolving conversation. Today, Jason welcomes his guest, David Kitts, a trained acupuncturist with a multifaceted approach to healing and community contribution.
Bookings at calendly.com/davidkitts
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[01:23] Guest Introduction and Background
David Kitts introduces himself, revealing his training as an acupuncturist and his diverse interests in contributing uniquely to the Maui community. He has been on the island for about six years, seeking a place to land and be part of a cooperative community. His experience includes working during the height of the AIDS crisis in San Francisco, providing alternative health care to underserved populations. David emphasizes his commitment to helping those who might otherwise lack access to such care. -
[03:30] Acupuncture Philosophy and Unique Approach
David explains that his acupuncture practice goes beyond conventional needle techniques; it is deeply rooted in the ancient principles of Taoism and Chinese medicine’s Five Elements theory. He connects these traditional ideas to modern quantum physics concepts, describing the universe as an interconnected fluid field of spinning particles—vortexes that create light and energy. Acupuncture points, according to David, are energy vortexes on the skin, and healing can be facilitated not only with needles but also through intention and imagination, even over distance (e.g., via Zoom). This energetic approach transcends the physical, integrating intention, visualization, and subtle energy manipulation. -
[09:43] Energetics of Acupuncture and Needle Mechanics
David elaborates on the physical and energetic mechanisms of acupuncture. The human skin, acting as a semi-conductor, allows electrical currents to pass when needles penetrate, creating potential differences that stimulate energy flow between points. This flow can induce relaxation or energize the patient depending on the points used. His extensive experience attending up to 17 patients daily during the AIDS crisis informs his confidence in acupuncture’s efficacy. Additionally, David practices “energetic needles,” applying healing energy remotely without physical contact, which has produced profound effects on patients. -
[12:00] Energetic Healing and Trauma Work
David shares his work with trauma survivors, notably those affected by the devastating Maui fires. He approaches trauma as an energetic phenomenon with its own life force—sometimes manifested as self-perpetuating trauma or “ghost” energies within a person’s system. Healing begins by helping individuals release these trapped energies before applying physical acupuncture, recognizing that trauma extends beyond the physical body into the energetic anatomy. This holistic method addresses psychological and energetic wounds alongside physical symptoms, helping people calm down and recover. -
[16:08] Community Service and Donation-Based Clinic
David discusses his dedication to community healing through donation-based acupuncture clinics, initially providing free services and later receiving stipends from local nonprofits. His commitment to giving back fuels his energy and sense of purpose. He mentions the organization Roots Reborn, which supports fire survivors and immigrants on Maui, highlighting the ongoing need for healing in the community. David’s work has deeply impacted those displaced by the fire, some of whom struggle to return to their homes due to trauma. -
[18:08] Dowsing and Energy Measurement Tools
David introduces his use of dowsing—a technique employing a specialized wire to measure and interact with subtle energy fields around a person. The wire’s spin rate provides information about the presence of foreign energies or the quality of energy flow. He uses dowsing to bring in specific universal energies, facilitating balance and healing. This tool complements his acupuncture by allowing precise energetic diagnosis and treatment beyond the physical body, demonstrating the interconnection of frequency, vibration, and intention in healing. -
[20:12] Reading Emotional and Spiritual States through Energy
David demonstrates how energetic tools can reveal a person’s emotional comfort and spiritual expression by measuring subtle changes in their energy field. He explains that when energy flow is open and balanced, it indicates a person is emotionally at ease and creatively expressing themselves. Conversely, constricted or slow energy movement signals emotional or spiritual blockages. This insight guides treatment and deepens understanding of the client’s state beyond verbal communication. -
[21:24] The Field Concept and Universe as Dynamic Energy
David articulates his view of the universe as a dynamic, interconnected “smoothie” of spinning particles, each with its own density and spin rate, creating a cosmic equilibrium. This metaphor emphasizes the constant motion and interaction of energy at all scales, from the quantum to the cosmic. Within this swirling energy, people can find a calm inner core—like the eye of a hurricane—which is central to his healing practice and business name, “Eye of the Needle.” This calm center provides stability amid universal flux. -
[24:02] Infinite Energy and Quantum Spin Theory
David discusses the concept of infinite energy in the universe, citing physicist Nassim Haramein’s ideas about perpetual spin at the quantum level. He explains that protons never cease spinning and continually create and exchange energy, resulting in a universe without beginning or end. David’s personal theory posits that this endless energy flow is supported by the willingness of beings to contribute to the whole, with even small acts of participation sustaining universal energy cycles. -
[27:35] Current Practice and Clinic Resumption
David updates on his current situation, sharing that he now has access to a clinic space at Hawaii Osteopathy, generously offered by Alex Francis, where he plans to restart a donation-based acupuncture clinic. He had ceased traveling to Lahaina due to toxic dust exposure after the fires but is optimistic about resuming services as conditions improve. He reflects on his two years of faithful service to the community, particularly at Oluwalu, providing free care to those in need. -
[29:54] Long-Distance Energy Maintenance and Sacred Anatomy Energy Medicine
David explains that he integrates long-distance energy healing programs for maintaining health between in-person treatments. He follows the teachings of Desda Zuckerman’s Sacred Anatomy Energy Medicine, which describes the electromagnetic field generated by the physical body (the aura) and a larger “soul layer” boundary extending about 20 feet, connecting individuals to the universe. The electromagnetic field facilitates interpersonal communication through field merging, while the soul layer acts as a selective membrane, allowing nourishing energies in and blocking harmful ones. This framework highlights the multidimensional nature of human energy anatomy. -
[32:14] Creating the World through Energy and Intention
David encourages listeners to understand that their energetic emissions shape the world they live in. Whether this emanates from brain activity or a larger universal self, the collective intention and energy contribute to creating peace, love, and understanding. He invites everyone to participate consciously by sending out positive energy and intentions to the universe, emphasizing the power of collective energetic contribution. -
[33:36] Human Design, Gene Keys, and Energetic Wounds
David shares his fascination with human design and gene keys, systems based on the I Ching that map individual electromagnetic fields and reveal unique energetic patterns. These systems identify 64 hexagrams corresponding to genetic and energetic themes, including wounds and gifts rooted in fear and defensiveness. David’s personal primary wound relates to “difficulty at the beginning,” symbolizing chaos experienced from birth and throughout life transitions. Understanding these wounds as energetic patterns offers a pathway to growth by transforming fear into learning and connection. -
[38:04] Life Challenges as Initiations and Growth
David reflects on his own life challenges, including a near-fatal car accident, as initiations that shaped his healing journey. He relates these trials to rites of passage found in groups like the Mankind Project, which use difficult experiences as a foundation for growth. David values the insights gained through hardship, emphasizing the importance of staying fluid and adaptable—the “neutral zone” state of openness to transformation and healing. -
[41:04] Evolution of Practice and Audience Engagement
David highlights his transition from a conventional acupuncturist to an energetic healer who embraces playfulness and curiosity in his work. He enjoys puzzles and the complexity of clients’ issues, using thorough listening and questioning to navigate treatments. He notes that younger audiences tend to be more receptive to energetic concepts, making this an exciting time to share and expand these healing modalities. -
[43:32] Role of Presence and Facilitator in Healing
David discusses the critical role of his own presence in the healing process. Initially feeling anxious about responsibility for patients’ well-being, he learned to maintain energetic boundaries and recognize his reactions as separate from the client’s issues. This awareness allows him to be fully present and witness the client’s state, which he considers essential for facilitating change. Witnessing and recognition help clients feel seen and promote healing on physical, emotional, and spiritual levels. -
[48:01] Meridian Examples and Body Connections
David provides practical examples of acupuncture’s effects beyond local treatment. For instance, stimulating a point near the collarbone can support ligaments related to bladder function, illustrating the interconnectedness of meridians. This systemic view reveals how acupuncture can address complex issues through subtle energetic pathways, expanding understanding beyond conventional Western anatomy. -
[49:51] Integration of Taoism, I Ching, and Energy Systems
David ties together the foundational Chinese medicine concepts of Taoism and the I Ching with modern energy systems like human design and sacred anatomy. He explains that the universe is constructed from basic elements and trigrams that correspond to bodily meridians and energy zones. These ancient frameworks describe constant change, balance, and transformation, providing a comprehensive map for understanding human energy and health. -
[53:15] Closing Reflections and Community Appreciation
Jason and David conclude with appreciation for the local Maui community and the show’s role in fostering connection and dialogue. Jason underscores the long history of environmental and holistic activism in the area and expresses hope for continued action beyond conversation. David’s work exemplifies this spirit by offering healing and presence in a neutral, inclusive space that transcends polarity and division. -
[56:24] Upcoming Community Event: Ocean of Peace Exhibit
The show closes with an announcement of the free Ocean of Peace exhibit at the Maui Arts and Cultural Center’s Schaefer International Gallery, running from December 6th to January 29th, 2026. The exhibit focuses on marine conservation and global peace, offering community members and visitors an opportunity to engage with themes that resonate with the show’s energetic and healing ethos.
This comprehensive interview blends traditional acupuncture philosophy, modern quantum and energetic concepts, and heartfelt community service, framing healing as a multidimensional process that integrates body, mind, spirit, and environment. David Kitts emerges as a dynamic healer who bridges ancient wisdom and contemporary science while deeply honoring trauma, presence, and the power of intention in creating both personal and collective transformation.
Transcript
00:00
Aloha, everyone. This is Jason Schwartz. I’m here at the Neutral Zone, MauiNeutralZone.com, 88.5 FM, the voice of Maui. We’re here in the studios of KAKU, 88.5 FM, live on Maui, simulcast on Akaku, Maui Community Media, TV to oldsters like me. Channel 55, you can see us, big screen.
00:28
And I take this show home. I get a transcript, a summary of the show, put it up at MauiNeutralZone.com. Imagine it becomes part of the conversation. We have 550 shows up there now and 30 years of conversation. Growing, changing, becoming the growing conversation. We want you to be part of it. I am so thrilled. I have a guest today.
00:54
I finally got him on my show. This is David Kitts. David, welcome to the show. You remember What’s My Line or Beat the Clock? I think What’s My Line. No, you’d look at him, you’d say, oh, what? This handsome guy, is he a model for Maui? I don’t know. What is he? David, someone’s trying to call me. It’s obviously not a viewer, right? Maybe, but they’re calling the wrong line. Hey, David, what do you do?
01:23
Well, I’ve been trained as an acupuncturist, but I do lots of things. And I’m really wanting to contribute something to the local community in my own unique way. I met David at a meeting called…
01:39
an I group, integration group, after a weekend. We’re having one actually this weekend. The Mankind Project, New Warrior Training Adventure. And there in the people, there was someone who had already been involved in this stuff for three years. We have weekly meetings if we want you to sort of keep sharp and aware of ourselves as a group, a number of groups on the island. And I met this guy. I said, this is a…
02:04
I don’t know how new you were to Maui, but you’ve been here a long time, coming and going. You are so dynamic in what you’ve been doing, and I saw the fire and what you’re doing with that. Start wherever you want. What makes you an acupuncturist and unique, if I were going to say?
02:24
Who are you, my friend? Well, first of all, thank you. I feel like I’m being interviewed by Wolfman Jack or something. He’s here. He’s hiding inside. I want to make sure you’re loud enough. Keep speaking so we can see. Yeah, so I…
02:42
I’ve had a long life of traveling from place to place. I’ve only been here about six years. Six years. Kind of looking for a place to be, a place to land. And, you know, there were a number of reasons why we came here. And one of them was just the idea that, you know, if you’re on a place where, you know, there’s a limited amount of land that people might be inclined to cooperate. Maybe it was a dream, but…
03:07
Hopefully we can contribute to that dream. So one of the things, of course, that happened here was the fire. And that fit into my way of operating in the world because one of the things I did very early on in my career was begin to contribute to people who otherwise wouldn’t get the kind of alternative health care that we offered.
03:30
And, you know, I spent eight years in San Francisco at the height of the AIDS crisis, working for very little money, but had, you know, like up to 17 people a day that would come and see me and feel better. So you’re a practiced acupuncturist. Yeah. Conventional acupuncture with needles and things like that? Well, that’s, you know, I certainly do that, yes. What’s unique about your protocol? What kind of way do you look at all this stuff? Well…
04:00
What’s unique about me is that I actually, I think, took in the basis of acupuncture from the very beginning. I mean, the acupuncture school I went to was called the Five Branches of Chinese Medicine. And even though they ended up being pretty much an acupuncture school that just taught you to pass the test like all the rest of them,
04:20
It really was based on the idea that there is some underlying principles and of course those come from the ancient Chinese principles of Taoism and the basic concept of Taoism is really the same thing that quantum physics is coming to these days, which is there is an open space that acts a little bit like a fluid field.
04:44
It’s got fluid dynamics to it. But there’s nothing there. It’s empty. The symbol for the Tao is like a partial circle. There’s no end to it. Within that, then, there are these forces that cause spin. You’ve got gravity that pulls things in that you could say love. Love sucks. Love holds things together. And then you’ve got
05:14
The energy that is being pulled, or the particles that are being pulled,
05:19
And they get spun out, and that’s what we call light and interesting and beautiful. But without those things together in that place that acts like a field, like a swirling, like the image that one of my favorite physicists has is that we live in a smoothie universe.
05:45
Smoothie we live in a smoothie universe basically we have billions and billions and billions of tiny little particles and every one of them is basically a little whirlwind or a vortex and There’s so many of them and they just get smaller and smaller and the smaller they go the faster they spin and the faster they spin the more they pull in other particles and that’s how you pull things together and you create the universe so we’re basically a expression of
06:14
Everything else. We are right in the middle as human beings between the smallest particles, which as far as we know is a photon, and the biggest things that we, as far as we know is a neutron. Have you heard of a mesotron? What’s a mesotron? You ever read the Urantia book? A long time ago. In the Urantia book, well, that’s a story. People that watch our show know that Jim Kimmel has done a number of our shows. May he rest in peace. We did like…
06:44
25 shows where he based mesotron is a small thing involving electrons and protons and
06:54
The universe is a lot more than just what we see, and that’s without going off on a tangent. So, the five-element theory in Chinese medicine that… Right. Five elements is how to describe some of the phases from something going all the way down into the gravity well of a black hole. Is that Taoism or is it they’re separate, really?
07:20
Well, Taoism, I think, was the original quantum physics. It was just that it didn’t use the same language. And here we are in a new age where quantum physics and computers, things that were theoretical that we didn’t think something else could simulate or do or prove,
07:36
Now they’re finding that, wow! I can say acupuncture to people and they go, oh, I’ve heard of that. Not only have I heard of that, I’ve had that. So to bring it back to the vortexes, acupuncture points are vortexes in the
07:51
along the skin of a human body right and and you know whether you use a needle or your intention or you even imagine light going into it you’re going to have an effect on the body based on where that point is related to other points on your body when you say imagine to me that means close your eyes you don’t need to be in the same space as someone nope
08:18
There’s some really strange things that have happened lately. I’ve been on Zoom with somebody and I’ll go, you know, let me try this. And I’ll, you know, imagine putting a needle made out of light into a point that I know.
08:34
And I also imagine that I can actually touch them because that’s one of my capacities. It’s how I feel the world. That’s just my particular characteristic. So when I touch some part that I’m wanting to affect on them, and I know the acupuncture point that’s going to have the ability to make a difference in that congestion or that pain or that ache that they’re having,
08:57
I can imagine putting it on that point or into that point, you know, like in how far it will go in. And I can feel the thing relaxing. And then I can tell them, okay, I placed this point. And what do you feel? It’s like, well, you know, it’s looser. It’s better. You know, it blows my mind every time. Well, you know.
09:18
See what I mean? How many acupuncture sonoma that are putting that kind of intention into each? Wow. So when people ask me, so why does this even work? I have to say the truth is I don’t know. It’s a mystery. And there’s some basic things that help me understand how it works. It’s like we have a boundary condition called our skin.
09:43
Right? After that, inside, we consider it, you know, inside me if it’s past our skin, right? And that skin is, you know, it’s got fat in it. And so it is very much like a silicon chip in a way. It’s partially, it’s called a semiconductor. Some energy will get in and some will be, you know, excluded, right?
10:08
So when you stick a needle or your intention through the skin, you’re creating a potential difference. And that’s what the universe runs on is the potential differences in things, right? So gravity is what you call potentially the positive pole, right? Yeah.
10:29
Gravity is created by protons sticking together because their spin attracts them to each other. So you’ve got a needle sticking through. You’ve got part of the needle sticking in the air. That’s one charge. And then you’ve got the fluid traveling onto your skin. That’s another charge. You automatically have a weak electric current going in through the needle.
10:50
And then you put another needle in another part of the body and it creates its own little electric current. And because the skin connects those two places, there’s an interaction. You start getting energy traveling from one needle to the other, which is why when someone is lying on the table and you put two or three needles into them, they suddenly start to drift off and go, oh my gosh, I feel so relaxed.
11:14
If you put it in the right place. If you want to energize them, you might choose a different set of points. You know, it’s like, wow, I’m really feeling energized, right? Well, all your experience, 17 people a day, my goodness. Well, that was at, you know, the height of my craziness. No, but my point being…
11:33
you’ve dealt with and still do deal with needles, but you also deal with energetic needles. That’s powerful. And many of our audience are, well, there’s kind of, some are very familiar and some are vaguely familiar. But I can tell you that I’ve had both kinds. And I’m just amazed as I grow up to learn about the potential of energetics
12:00
I happened to be, and just so happened. My brother was the teaching assistant for Val Hunt. Val Hunt is the one, way back when, and Rosalind Breer, talking about energy bodies, and all the rest of this.
12:14
I’m an unusual host. I’m aware of these things for a whole lifetime. My ex-wife studied, was a doctor of acupuncture. So it’s like, oh. So I come in, you know, most people just say, oh, that’s just Jason. Yeah, Jason had an energy company, knows about this and this. Endlessly interested. I do nothing, but I know how to look and see how pieces fit together.
12:41
so look how do you you were helping with the um with the fires the survivors or the the people displaced by the fire yes so um i imagine that was also psychologists wrapped into one that was quite a job well that does bring me to another thing that i ended up studying you know like you i’m sort of endlessly curious so i don’t know fortunately when i got out of acupuncture school
13:04
and I had passed the test, you know, and then I was like, I hope this stuff works. I found a teacher who showed me, like, if you poke here, over here gets better, right? So I started learning about relationships, right? Well, when you…
13:20
have something so intensely traumatic as like what happened with the fire, you’ve got to realize that everybody’s been traumatized, including the land and the energy itself. So one of the things I learned, speaking of Rosalind Breer, was that the entire human energy structure has its own anatomy and its own…
13:51
acupuncture points, I guess you could say, because if you’re very accurate about how you locate what you’re attempting to shift or affect, right, you can
14:01
get to a deeper root of whatever is going on with the physical body, because everything in the physical body is a condensation of all of the other parts of our energetic anatomy. This is the manifestation of the rest of it. So without getting too far down the rabbit hole, when I was working with people at the fire…
14:32
people were extremely traumatized and the very first thing to do with somebody isn’t necessarily sticking a needle in them right so i would like be able to tune in to whether or not they were carrying around energy which you could say was like
14:49
Trauma that had its own intention, trauma that had its own life force, trauma that had its own awareness, right? A form of kind of like self-perpetuating trauma, right? You might call it a, some people might have had ghosts, you know, people who died, you know, like that got into their system. Some people might have picked up energies that really were feeding off of their trauma.
15:12
particular uh… trauma and wanted to keep to maintain it and so one of the first things i would do would be to determine like is there anything i can do to help you release get released from those kinds of trauma so that’s outside the box of even acupuncture which is outside the box of western medicine so
15:32
But that’s just who I am. I’m not going to work on somebody unless I can help them calm down to the point where sticking a needle in them isn’t going to make them feel worse. Everything is integrated. It’s all the equation. We are one, right? Yeah. Okay.
15:47
Right, right. That’s kind of the whole thing. And that kind of brings me back to, you know, like what you’re doing here and what I’m doing by trying to be someone who, in this case, I was giving, I was donating my time, right? And then eventually there was, you know, a most wonderful person, Noelani Ahia, who was putting together a…
16:08
a non-profit and she started giving us a stipend. But for the bulk of the time I was just giving away my time because I actually am fed by giving back to people
16:22
some kind of calmness, some kind of sense that they can recover from whatever is going on, and maybe even helping them discover whatever the gift of that is, right? Do you know a group called Roots Reborn by any chance? I don’t. Well, they were in the Maui Now a couple of days ago. I saw it on the web. And I have a guest coming on the 16th, a couple of weeks from now.
16:45
who’s the director of this organization, they were helping people after the fire. Now they’re going to be helping immigrants and this whole new issue going on. But the West Side and after the fire, people don’t really realize the depth. And, you know, it’s like…
17:05
That was a major trauma. You know, I didn’t realize some of my friends, I said to Nick, Nick died in the fire. Whoa. You know, I mean, I really just when you see a list of names and I lived in Lahaina, that’s where my main thing was.
17:23
I have people that won’t even go back to the West Side. They want to remember Lahaina the way it was. It was a major shot. Definitely. And so your work in trying to help those people, there’s something in the air, something, like you say, it’s not tangible. It’s that field, Deepak Chopra, I remember when he called it, the Maharishis, they call it that. That space between things. Yeah.
17:47
that puts that space of potential you’re dealing with energy in someone’s body and where it was and what you can do and this space called that’s fantastic so i want to introduce spin again here because what i learned to do at one point when i found another teacher who was helping me learn about the anatomy that is
18:08
Greater than just the physical anatomy, which is complicated enough, right? But anyway, she helped me navigate it by helping me learn how to douse. So this is my very deluxe dousing wire here. That is deluxe. It’s quite a lot like dousing.
18:25
It’s the Cadillac of dowsing wires. And basically what I can do with this is take measurements. That’s what dowsers do. So I can just determine, is there anybody else or any other energy in your energy structure by measuring what your number, it’s a made-up number, would ordinarily be, right? And if it’s less than that…
18:45
then somebody else is in your space. If there’s something I want to do, I want to bring in some energy, again, it’s spin. I’m asking the universe to bring in energy, and the wire spins for me. So if I’m going to bring in universal 11 light for you, and it comes. And then it stops, and it slows down.
19:02
So I learned to do this. This is a way of tapping into that same energy field that I use to tap into when I’m putting my fingers on somebody’s acupuncture point and checking to see if a tight spot releases or if a hot spot gets cooler. I see. That’s fantastic. And that obviously relates to frequency. So it’s frequency and vibration, everything. And it’s all, you know, and it…
19:32
It’s using imagination, but if you understand that really kind of imagination is what creates everything. Everything. Right, right. It’s the food of everything. You end up learning to trust, you know, the difference between I’m trying to make this thing spin and, you know, my body is measuring the flow of energy somehow.
19:55
So when it’s going around and we’re sitting and talking, you’re actually sensing the difference in speed and all that. Yeah. But I can also take your pulse. Like I can take your pulse this way, but I can also take your pulse this way. This is telling me the difference between…
20:12
how comfortable you are with your emotions right now and how much your spirit is being expressed and then how you’re processing that in between. So is this actually reading me now? This is mental, right? Yeah, I’m actually picking up. So what does that show me? Well, I mean, you’re someone who is…
20:27
quite comfortable with your emotional state right now. This is your home. This is what you like to do, right? And you’re expressing who you are. So there’s a nice openness to it. There’s flow. There’s energy, right? But a lot of times, you know, if I’m feeling down or I’m feeling oppressed by something, this thing will barely move at all. And I’m like, oh, well, I better look at what’s going on, right? Wow. Isn’t this interesting and exciting? So
20:57
I think we already described field. This thing outside of it, it’s a dynamic thing. It’s almost hard to describe because it’s between other things we’ve identified as in this universe that we’ve identified. It’s not my favorite term because a field kind of evokes this open space with grass on it or something like that. But what we’re actually living in is something more like that smoothie I was talking about.
21:24
Everything is interacting with everything else. And everything has its own density. Everything has its own density. So we’re all in this fantastic equilibrium created by everything spinning together at the same time. And yet we feel like, okay, the idea of spinning would make you dizzy after a while, you would think. But actually, each of us has our own comfortable spin rate. And within that, we feel…
21:52
silent and still because we have like that core within us which is empty which is like the eye of a hurricane which is one of the reasons why bren named my business the eye of the needle because it’s you know helping people find you know that place where it’s like even though everything’s swirling around there’s still calmness inside right
22:19
She said, you have the ability to do that. I’m like, that’s a pretty good name. Wow. I hope you guys are as excited as I am. I have already had one treatment, but now I understand what he was doing. As it was happening, it was a very interesting and dynamic session we had. Gosh, I don’t even remember.
22:40
Well, we were sitting at your house. I remember because I met the dog from next door. Oh, yeah. Very present. Yeah, the dog, yes, right? But we sat there for a while, and then I looked over, then I said, well, there’s the water from Air Machine, which is another subject for another day, but…
23:03
People, water is one of those biggies, sort of like, you know, we think about gold coins. What do gold coins or silver have to do if you’re in the middle? I remember the Twilight Zone one where the guy had gold and gold. I will give you all this gold for a drink of water. And he died. And they went, ha, ha.
23:25
That guy got all his gold and the streets were paved with gold. Everything was gold. Everything’s together in this universe. That’s what’s so amazing. Potential is as good as, when you think of it as different densities, it really adds to that possibility.
23:45
like me in all my dreams. Well, and when you understand that, you know, the universe is run by this, you know, smaller and smaller particles, infinitely getting smaller and pulling, you know, in and in. And then as a result, everything is expanding at the same time. And that’s an endless source of energy.
24:02
And as Nassim Haramein says, you know, when people tell you and they look at you in all seriousness and say there’s no such thing as a perpetual motion machine, he says, as far as I can tell at the quantum level, there’s nothing but a perpetual motion machine. Protons never stop spinning. They’ve never seen a proton slow down, ever. Even when they smash them together, they reform.
24:27
So there’s, you know, I mean, there’s something to that. And there’s another little thing, too, that I want to, like, describe. It’s like, why is this, why is there infinite energy available in the universe? To me, you know, we talk about love and the fact that, you know,
24:42
Gravity is something we kind of want to escape from in a way, right? It’s like it’s like really we’re stuck here forever But not if we can tap into that incredible energy that’s being you know exchanged between all these different scales of existence right imagine what that means to people for like meditation when you travel
25:02
It’s a concept that has no physical thing. But wait, in different densities, this travel becomes real. And the power of things that seem not tangible have that possibility exists. Well, here’s my little theory. It’s totally mine, right? Please, please.
25:23
But he described a mathematical condition that they are measuring about the proton. So proton is our fundamental particle, you know, aside from the smallest thing they can measure is a photon. And there’s trillions of them inside of a photon, just to give you an idea. But anyway, the proton…
25:41
spins off energy. There’s a certain amount of it that’s always being released. That’s called entropy. But it’s also pulling in energy constantly and creating more energy. And when they add up that dynamic of the spin of the proton, there’s always a little bit left over. That’s why the universe is infinite. You run into this mathematically over and over again. There’s actually infinities at the base of the universe.
26:11
There’s no end. There’s no beginning. And to me, my little personal theory is, all it takes is just a little willingness to contribute to everybody else.
26:21
That’s why it keeps going, right? You don’t even have to do anything. You just have to be interested in doing it, and that is a contribution. And then there are people who spend their whole life and dedicate their whole life to supporting the community and other people and their causes and stuff like that, and they’re doing a lot, but even just the tiniest bit of interest. That’s why right now we say if you…
26:48
If you are calling on that line, you’re not going to get picked up by me. But there’s a show a couple hours. That might be the call-in for that. We have a phone line here. We are a call-in, call-out talk show. Sometimes we sit here and we call someone. That’s really fun. So we try not to be too invasive. But when we want to call the mayor, they don’t give us a green light and say, Okay, we’ll put the mayor on. We know you’re on the air.
27:15
But they will say, what? That’s what we’re looking for. We want people to feel real. And that’s what the neutral zone is. We say everything. This is exciting to me. So now you’ve been here six years on Maui.
27:35
um you have offices you sort of have gunwell travel or you have people come to you well uh there are um uh i do have an office space now thanks to the generosity of uh hawaii osteopathy and alex francis um and um and and he sees the value of what i do and and he’s actually
27:56
going to let me use a space there for free for the next couple of months to start up the next version of a donation-based clinic, which I haven’t been able to do since I… Like, middle of last year, I finally stopped going over to Lahaina. I couldn’t stomach the idea of driving back and forth with all of the trucks carrying toxic dust with them. I was just like, okay, that’s time for me to stop. But, you know…
28:23
Yeah. Well, now the dust, the dust has settled. Yes. Have you been up there? They now have a concrete, they’re building this concrete barrier. It’s now almost approaching the road, you know, the barrier. Oh. Up where they dumped, right next to the old landfill, the current landfill thing.
28:44
For, you know, out there in Oluwalu, or are you talking… The one in the middle of Maui. The one in the middle of Maui. The central Maui landfill. Yeah, they’re trying to just completely insulate it from the water table, right? From its surroundings, right. So we’ll see where to… But they say it’s out of Oluwalu. I’m not sure what the Olu… We had Oluwalu people on here. You treated everybody. I mean, you were going so faithfully. Yeah, I went there for…
29:11
pretty close to two years. Wow. Faithfully, regularly. Yeah, regular Fridays. What a donation and great, great gift. Thank you. And it’s such a, so nourishing to me to help whoever came in. I mean, you know,
29:25
I’m human. I didn’t help everybody, but I helped a lot of them. Once you have a patient physically, do you ever introduce them to the long-distance program for maintenance? Yes, actually. And that is one of the things I’ll be doing is offering classes and becoming aware of how your energy system works. And there’s one thing that’s really a great… It’s probably the best…
29:54
feature of my energy work teacher, whose name is Desda Zuckerman, and her system is called Sacred Anatomy Energy Medicine. What’s really important to me, anyway, to understand is that we all have an electromagnetic field that’s generated by our physical form, and most people think of that as their aura, and they think that that’s basically what
30:23
We are. We are a physical body that has an electromagnetic field. But actually, that is all contained within something much larger, which acts very much like a proton or a planet or a universe or a galaxy. And it has a boundary condition, too, which we call the edge of the soul layer. So you have your aura, which is about as far as you can reach. And then you have something that’s, in most people, at least 20 feet out from your skin.
30:52
And that is a whole different boundary condition that actually connects you to the rest of the universe. We are literally plugged in to the mycelial network that nourishes everything in the universe at our energy skin. But that’s totally different from our electromagnetic field, which is part of how we communicate with each other. So there’s two things here that are really important.
31:15
Our electromagnetic fields merge and mix with each other because that’s how we communicate. But from our skin, we have a natural and universal energy self that automatically receives exactly what is actually resonant with us individually and just doesn’t welcome the rest. So it’s our boundary. It’s our semi-permeable membrane, much like a cell has a semi-permeable membrane. It only allows in things that are nourishing to it and releases stuff from there.
31:45
Well, you know, when I’m thinking of that and my dreamer comes out again, it goes, so that when I put this particle of this idea out or how I feel about war or love or peace, I am making a difference. And I attract in the universe because of this condition that is coming, that I don’t know where it emanates from, I guess.
32:14
It’s hard for me to even identify a beginning. It emanates from the center. The center of whatever. The center of everywhere, which lives in everybody’s chest. Somewhere in there. So that means we create the world we live in, right? Yeah. And we shape it by…
32:29
this whatever it is whether we’re it’s our brain doing it or our something’s impacting our bigger greater self so at the very least everyone out there if you would like peace and you would like all those good things put it out in the universe would you please
32:53
All of us need to, I think, a little command. Let’s put out some peace and understanding out into the world. So, I’m going to have to go and read more questions. How am I doing? You’re doing great. I feel good. Because, I mean, I’m thinking, when you see, that’s a good question, wounds and gifts. Yeah.
33:16
Take it. Maestro. Okay, so, you know, one thing you’ll learn about me relatively quickly is that I just eat up systems. I think Bren used to say, what did she say? She said something like, you eat, you know, human development systems and poop out unicorn sprinkles or something like that, right?
33:36
Well, so one of the things that I’ve really enjoyed learning about the last 20 years is called human design and another aspect of it’s called the gene keys. Well, that is the science of what is unique about our electromagnetic field. That’s what we’re communicating from our bodies, not just our minds, but our entire body, right?
33:54
And it’s based on the I Ching. So it’s a perfect segue all the way through my original introduction to acupuncture into this huge energy field, which is a vortex, by the way. And then this human design, the electromagnetic field is a vortex. OK, so the human design shows you
34:19
God, I lost the track. Oh, the gifts and wounds. So the human design shows you how you exchange. But every single one of us has had injuries of various kinds, some of which we still carry around with us, mostly the psychological ones, right? And in the gene keys in human design, those injuries can fit into 64 basic categories.
34:44
because there are 64 conditions that we can get caught up in. There are 64 genes in our genetic code, and there are 64 hexagrams in this system. And each one of those hexagrams
34:58
can bind you up in basically a form of an energetic sticking point or a wound. And it’s based on fear and anger, right? Basically, it’s defensiveness and, you know, I’m scared because something might hurt me, right? And every single one of those actually is a teacher.
35:23
Because the more you go around feeling defended, the less connected you feel, the less you let in other people’s love, the smaller your world gets. And so there’s just a natural learning from each of those. So my primary wound, you might say, was being born into a state of chaos.
35:49
Because it happens on your birthday. Your primary wound happens on your birthday. So I was being born into a state of chaos, which means I kind of want things to slow down. But on the other hand, I kind of like them being all over the place all at the same time. Well, one of the things about chaos is it leaves me endlessly curious.
36:12
because there’s always something else right to learn and so i will start putting together things that nobody thought actually went together you know because i’m looking for a solution that look will make me feel you know like the universe is a you know it’s chaos but it’s also holding together it’s also infinite it’s also you know um
36:36
endlessly interesting and endlessly differentiated. Every single one of us is entirely unique. So the gifts come from being with the frightfulness of whatever your injuries are. So just an example, my particular genetic chaos was originally called difficulty at the beginning.
37:03
That’s the name of, and it’s the images of basically a thunderstorm. Sudden change and rain, right? Boom, right? Difficulty at the beginning for me turned out to be being born sunny side up and spending hours and hours bumping into my mother’s pubic bone because I was facing the wrong direction, right? And then having to be turned around and pulled out, right? And then going from there to waiting in a hotel room to go to my dad’s
37:33
army barracks in Germany, you know, like within the first three months of my life, and then coming back here and moving from house to house to house to house, even though I was in the same town. That’s chaos, right?
37:47
And I was constantly looking. And how did you get in touch with that? Over time? Yeah, well, I mean, over time I kept running into, you know, crises caused by sudden changes, right? Difficulty at the beginning as I’d move into the next phase of my life, right? So as I was moving into adulthood…
38:04
You know, you talked about Mankind Project and, you know, Mankind Project has an initiation because young men don’t have initiations in our culture anymore in which you go through a kind of a test or a trial. That’s a shadow, right? That’s a wound, right? You go into there and you have a traumatic experience at first and then all of those lovely men guide you through the process of learning and growing from it, right?
38:29
So my traumatic experience coming into adulthood was to get smashed by an automobile. I was in a VW van and I ran into a truck. Literally had to peel me out of it, right? And then they went and they saved my life, right? She’s like, modern medicine saved my life. Thank you, thank you, but just don’t ever let me get stuck in a hospital, right?
38:50
So I learned something about who I am because I was, like, smashed, and I realized, well, I have a lot of healing to do. I might as well study healing, but I sure as hell don’t want to be in a hospital. And that’s really all I knew, but I knew that I had some reason to be here because otherwise I wouldn’t have been, right?
39:11
So that’s, for me, that’s been one kind of thing like that after another. Basically, I’m transitioning. There’s some kind of sudden, you know, like smash. Fortunately, it’s getting less dramatic as time goes on, but I keep doing that. I keep banging into things.
39:27
And then this crazy innovation comes out of it. When I hear that, the thing that jumps into me is this thing that I say, whenever I have something that didn’t go the way I want exactly, I see what I can learn from it and grow from it for the next time. And it just is a beautiful thing. How do I get from my dream…
39:53
to where I’m at now. Because each time something didn’t exactly go, I use the insight from that to the next thing. I don’t get fixed. It’s like you do. You have to stay liquid and fluid. To be able to help someone, you have to be
40:11
A neutral zone got to be open, you know? And so, look, we’re talking the same language. The neutral zone is a perfect example of what I’m talking about, of trying to find that quiet place inside of the whirlwind. Because every one of us is a whirlwind, right? And yet there is that core place where you can just sit and there’s quiet, there’s silence, and there’s peace. And yet the whirling never stops, right? Right?
40:39
And everything is moving. Even your whirlwind is moving. I mean, we’re all being flung around the sun, right? When you started and did this and where you are now, are there any gigantic revelations that if I miss that, I’m missing the show? What are some of the things that really moved you? Over time, I’m sure things have emerged that are concepts that really need to be delivered to you guys.
41:04
I’m going to read while you… I’m not sure what you mean by that. What I mean is, you know, see what happens speed reading. When you started, you were one motivated guy in this. And over time, you’ve seen and learned changes. I mean, just what you do is so different than a conventional needle pusher. I say that in full respect. I’ve had needle pushers that have done things that have been incredible treatments. Oh, yeah. But…
41:33
The possibilities that this opens up, especially with a very receptive young audience, older people, some of them get it, but the younger ones understand about energy way more than the older ones. So that’s why I’m excited, because this is something that will carry on for people to hear and see and grow with. And you’re adding really important…
41:55
fabric to conversation because we’re so much more than when we sit here you know so what as you’re going along any aha moments of like just it becomes i don’t want to say play yeah become your life work it’s it is play it is play that’s actually the the
42:18
What I keep going back to over and over again is to trying to find the fun and to play in it. So I love a puzzle. If someone comes into me and they give me this long list of issues, you know, I start to get interested, right? And basically it’s really about me listening to what’s going on to them. That’s really the whole thing. And then I can start asking questions, right?
42:43
And I try to be thorough so I get as much information as I can. Yeah. But it’s also nice, you know, sometimes to like just get the gist of it and go work. So like if I’m in a situation where I have to see someone every 20 minutes, you know, being really concise and getting right to it also helps, you know.
43:05
You’re going to have fun after this show, I’m sure, especially when you send it out to people you know and they send it out. You might get a lot of questions and all kinds of people coming to you. They could be anywhere. You could be anywhere and connect. Isn’t that powerful? For all you people on the other side of the world, you’re not so far away. Come on, visit Maui. You can do it without even coming here, but you can come here, too. Yeah.
43:32
I’m going to start reading for a second. About wounds and gifts, what role does your presence play? That’s a good question. What role does your own presence play in the healing process? I think of that meaning you’re a facilitator. Yeah. Well…
44:02
What comes to mind is something I learned while I was working with people. One of my other wounds and gifts is feeling like I’m somehow responsible for
44:19
patching somebody together or something right and so i would get anxieties around that when i would go into a room and someone had a lot of issues going on i was like oh my god what am i going to do for this person right and what was weird was sometimes i would get into that place and i would get like and i was just fine in the room with the other person
44:41
And I would just say, excuse me, I better go wash my hands. You know, that’s an important thing in acupuncture to keep your hands clean. Right. So a perfect excuse. And I go outside and I do my little exercise and I like, like, like get myself back in my own.
44:55
energetic container. And I’d go back in and I’d have all the same feelings come up. And then I went like, oh, this is about them, not me. I’m just having my own reactions to what’s going on with them. And then all of that stuff became interesting information for me to be present with them about. And I could get to whatever was going on with them at whatever level it was. You know, it’s not just physical. It’s not just electromagnetic. It’s not just spiritual.
45:25
Maybe there’s something, you know, like about the way that their nervous system is holding them in a very particular shape because of some trauma. And that’s really what needs to be addressed, right? So then it’s a matter of like finding it out this way. And it’s like I’m just, you know, asking permission too, you know, like, well, I’m going to do something that I’d like to do something that has nothing to do with acupuncture. Are you okay with that?
45:55
99% of the time, yes, right? Sure, go ahead. And then I can do my little dowsing. Is it this? Is it that? What part is it? Like I said, I like details, right? And that allows me to be present with them where they are so that something can shift and
46:22
Simply because of me seeing it, right? Yeah. Well, we’re getting into those micro particles. Yeah. We’re getting into the possibility of change. Yeah. I mean, witnessing is probably the most important part of any healing in my way of seeing things. Just seeing what’s going on.
46:43
And someone recognizing that you’re seeing it? Yeah, yeah. Well, they may not see it themselves. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, everybody’s different. I might think they get what I’m saying, but as long as they get something that allows them to feel better, that’s good enough, right? This may sound like a funny question. Did I miss anything? What’s important to you that, as you’re sitting here, I can give you the questions even, why
47:10
We have a very, very dynamic local community. I’ve known some folks for some years, and then I heard David talking about these people that he met, and I thought, oh, I want to have them on the show. They haven’t called me back. And then…
47:31
You know, we have such a great community here. Don’t we? People that don’t live on Maui, you know what I mean? And we have two psychics down the streets, a healer that does this and that and the other thing. And we all are a really mixed group. I have to tell you, it took some courage to come to Maui. But, of course, I came from Marin County, so it wasn’t that different, right? But, you know, it’s like opening a taco stand in, you know, Tijuana or something, right? But…
48:01
Did I miss something? What came to mind was to just give an example of the relationship of the body and why something would work if you poke one place and something else would get better, right? So a really relatively easy to understand example is…
48:21
is the tendons from the top of your hip that go to your bladder, right? The ligaments, right? So people have issues with the bladder falling sometimes, right? And then you’ll leakage and stuff like that. So you wouldn’t think that acupuncture could do much about that. But it turns out that those ligaments have a direct relationship to the area right under your collarbone, right?
48:46
And that if you understand that the meridian coming down goes through your collarbone and also goes through the ligaments down here, and you put a pin and you point it outwards, you’re essentially asking the upper body to help the lower body hold itself up, and it works.
49:06
it actually can help pull those ligaments together more so that your bladder doesn’t drop. It’s not exciting. For people that are already aware of this kind of stuff is one thing. But most people aren’t. I’m always amazed. Maybe…
49:23
You know, it puts me at my age. A lot of young people, these kind of concepts have got to be right along the lines of what we understand. And you’re talking about meridians. It used to be we had only so many lines of information and we could dig deeper. Now everything is, it’s hard to know which way to turn. So I’m glad you’re speaking about things that are going to attract a lot of people I trust. So here’s another thing.
49:51
winding it together. Remember I talked about the I Ching and these basic building blocks, the 64 hexagrams, right? Well, the basic building block is the trigram.
50:06
And each of those trigrams represents a meridian or a zone on your body. So the stomach meridian, which is related to your stomach, starts at your eyes and your head and your jaw, which is all about taking stuff in, right? And it comes down your throat and down through the nipples about nourishment, right? And then down the front of your legs. Well, the hexagram related to that is mountain
50:37
repeated twice. If you think about the mountain, the quality of the mountain, it just sits there and everything swirls around it. The mountain is the capacity to nourish by just
50:56
standing there and being solid, right? So that’s just an example. I hope everyone’s going, I want to be an acupuncturist like that. I want to go to an acupuncture guy that talks about the greater me. So this is a whole school, what do you call it? Sacred…
51:18
Well, that’s another… I’m pulling these three basic things together, but it’s all held together by the I Ching. It’s all held together by this concept that the universe is made up of these building blocks. There are basically eight of them, starting with earth and whatever it is that isn’t earth, that isn’t solid.
51:43
Ether used to be called, right? Space, emptiness. It’s not empty. It’s full of energy, right? Pure energy, pure matter. No such thing, because they don’t exist without each other, right? And then there are gradations towards each other. When you get to the very middle, you’ve got water and fire. And then when they change into each other at…
52:05
lightning on the ones like thunder on the one side and wind on the other constant change and sudden change right they’re constantly exchanging and so i’m i’m sure that yeah so so the you know so you have everything is held together by those basic concepts you’ve got
52:26
Taoism underlying Chinese medicine. You’ve got the I Ching being woven into human design and the gene keys, which is a description of how the energy emanates from your physical body. And then I have this sacred anatomy, which is a description of the energy vortex that surrounds us, that contains all of that, that’s actually the universe each of us lives in.
52:51
Wow. I don’t almost know where to begin and end with the kind of, you really make a big difference in people’s lives. I’m sure you have a, what do we say, a guest book. Sometimes people, lots of people that have had really great service from you. Aren’t we glad we brought David Kitts onto the show today?
53:15
I think so. If you have any comments and things, you can always get them through me, but you’ll see on the screen. If you’re fortunate enough to go to maurineutralzone.com, you can watch it again, take notes, have fun. You know, I’m so thankful that we have this forum today.
53:32
And, you know, I limited and I say always Monday at 11. But Monday at 11, you can see us on Akaku Maui Community Media, which is our local Maui thing. But way back when, when this radio station and TV station were starting, radio is like an afterthought. We’ve been doing all this stuff for a long time. I saw a flyer of me. I ran for president.
53:57
Council, Green Party, 1992. And I’m reading all the things, and I realized I just met someone who told me, I was the first graduate of a sustainability degree. And he was in 1991 he was born. Ninety-one, what is that? Oh, that’s when I started the nonprofit. And I look at the long list of environmental stuff. We’ve been talking these things a long time. It’s time for not only talk, it’s time for action.
54:22
And in the area of healing, in the area of holistic ways of approaching things, David Kitts is a great choice. I hope everyone will get a chance to get up close and personal. And if you’re not here, you can still be in touch, which is terrific.
54:37
I hope this is of some service to you. Oh, I think so. I just want to bring this back to the neutral zone in the sense that, you know, I just want to honor that by you holding space in a place of non polarized. I mean, you might have your own opinions, but you’re holding space for anybody and everybody. Yeah. And that’s healing.
54:58
I hope so. And it’s a way that I hope our country and our world might enjoy a neutral zone. If you can be neutral, then you have all the power of all the polarities available to you. Yeah, and enemies don’t exist. Just another facet of this diamond that we’re somehow viewing. Because it may not be real either. It is real in its own dimensions.
55:25
We’re living in a time where the more we learn, the more simple it is. I don’t know. It’s an interesting world we live in. David, you are a great guest. I hope you’ll decide and come back again.
55:40
It’s a lot of fun. Thank you. Good, good. Yeah. Thank you for being here. Thank you, Bren, for having him here. His partner, Bren, is here with us. We have 30, 40 seconds. I’m going to get my credits, see if they work this time. They should. Let’s see where we’re at. Okay. We’re good. Everyone, I hope you’ll go to MauiNeutralZone.com, get up there, check what we’re doing. Next week, we still have an open choice, so it’s going to be interesting to see who comes up in the hit parade.
56:10
Thank you all for joining us. Dave, thank you. Aloha, everyone. See you next week. Well, that was fun. Thank you.
