DAVID LEONARD – Earth Medicine Institute

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Jason Schwartz with DAVID BRUCE LEONARD, director Earth Medicine Institute. Acupuncture, Plant Medicine, Self Defense, Human Sexuality, Relationship Sanctuaries.. and more- good discussion. 3-18-2019

Summary & Transcript Below…

Interview with David Bruce Leonard on The Neutral Zone (KAKU 88.5 FM)   

[00:00 → 25:42] Introduction and Overview of David Bruce Leonard’s Work

• [00:00] The show opens with host Jason Schwartz welcoming listeners to The Neutral Zone on KAKU 88.5 FM. The guest is David Bruce Leonard, a Maui-based acupuncturist, herbalist, and founder/director of the Earth Medicine Institute.
• [01:31] Jason introduces David and humorously comments on his physical stature to lighten the mood. David’s multifaceted expertise covers acupuncture, herbal medicine, plant medicine, sacred sexuality, and self-defense.
• [02:40] David describes his work as interconnected through the lens of the human nervous system. He emphasizes how traditional hunter-gatherer techniques “hack” or optimize the nervous system to improve body awareness, perception, and emotional regulation.
• [03:49] He clarifies that “hacking the nervous system” refers not to stimulants but to using natural techniques such as peripheral vision, locus of attention, and body focus to enhance environmental awareness.
• [05:08] David explains how these nervous system techniques apply across disciplines: plant medicine (gathering skills), sacred sexuality (achieving parasympathetic relaxation), and self-defense (managing adrenaline).
• [06:19] David shares his personal journey: a youth epiphany in Kathmandu inspired him to study acupuncture, which he pursued formally starting at age 30. His passion for plant medicine grew through this path.
• [07:31] Discussion about natural plant medicines versus pharmaceuticals. David supports integrative medicine, valuing both natural remedies and Western medicine’s strengths but critiques corporate medicine’s motives.
• [08:01] David contrasts Chinese traditional medicine’s focus on balance with Vietnamese medicine’s emphasis on cleansing and detoxification, highlighting the diversity within Asian medical traditions.
• [09:08] The conversation shifts to the evolution of terminology from “alternative medicine” to “integrative medicine,” emphasizing that ultimately all approaches aim to promote health.
• [09:46] David shares his dietary approach as a flexitarian, primarily vegan (~90%) but flexible, emphasizing informed personal choices over dogma.
• [10:20] The dialogue touches on health, morality, and personal responsibility, stressing the importance of informed decisions without moral judgment and gradual lifestyle changes.
• [11:55] David advocates for replacing unhealthy pleasures with healthy ones, including exercise and healthy sexuality, which he considers essential and natural.
• [12:26] Discussion about societal attitudes towards sexuality in the West versus Europe, noting Western society’s contradictory mix of sexual openness and private shame.
• [13:01] David describes his long-term partnership without marriage and acknowledges the diversity of relationship models, including polyamory, reflecting cultural shifts since the 1960s.
• [14:14] He explains the deep connection between sexuality and love, noting that sexuality can foster bonding and emotional intimacy.
• [14:50] David introduces the “relationship sanctuary” concept: each partner maintains a personal sanctuary (self-care, responsibility) and a relationship sanctuary (support and enhance partner’s quality of life), blending older and newer relational models.
• [16:02] Jason reflects on generational differences: older models emphasized mutual care, newer models emphasize self-love first. David notes that despite more information access today, depth of connection may be lacking due to distractions like technology.
• [17:06] David highlights neurological challenges today (e.g., reduced attention spans) but reaffirms the importance of balancing personal fulfillment with relationship care.
• [18:08] On youth sexuality, David notes increased freedom but warns that this can lead to superficial relationships lacking depth and long-term connection. He stresses the value of delayed gratification for adult maturity.
• [19:12] Discussion about parenting and the challenge of letting go as children grow into independent adults, emphasizing differentiation as a natural and necessary process.
• [20:37] David acknowledges the complexity of parental emotions: pride, desire for children’s wellbeing, and coping with their struggles.
• [21:07] David stresses the importance of maintaining one’s core identity (“rooting”) to avoid losing oneself in others’ opinions or societal pressures.
• [21:45] The conversation transitions to how acupuncture and sexuality work intersect. David explains that acupuncture supports bodily awareness and helps individuals connect more deeply with their physical selves, which can benefit sexual health indirectly.
• [23:26] David clarifies his clinical boundaries: he seldom addresses sexuality directly with patients but integrates mind-body awareness through acupuncture.
• [23:57] The Earth Medicine Institute also teaches self-defense and sacred sexuality as complementary fields, with a focus on boundaries and empowerment.
• [24:29] David shares his contact info and previews upcoming topics before going on break.

[25:42 → 40:40] Self-Defense: Philosophy, Training, and Impact

• [29:01] Upon return, the discussion centers on women’s self-defense, focusing on safety and prevention rather than fighting. The goal is to avoid danger, de-escalate threats, and fight only as a last resort.
• [29:31] David emphasizes that trained fighters often avoid conflict, valuing safety and restraint.
• [30:49] Classes teach recognizing predator behavior, verbal cues, and trusting instincts rooted in the limbic brain. Women and men are taught to be assertive—not passive or aggressive.
• [31:56] The program uses adrenaline exposure in a safe environment to retrain the nervous system, helping survivors of assault bypass freeze responses and regain agency.
• [33:02] Classes are small (max 8 women) to maintain quality and safety; ages range from mid-teens to 70s.
• [33:35] The training’s effectiveness is supported by statistics: out of hundreds of women who applied the techniques in real-life assaults, most successfully defended themselves.
• [34:49] David stresses assertiveness as the ideal stance—neither passivity nor aggression—to manage conflict and avoid escalation.
• [35:24] Men’s self-defense classes are also offered, with a record of 28 wins and no losses in confrontations, showing the practical impact of training.
• [37:16] David highlights the importance of recognizing personal power and responsibility in self-defense without becoming jaded or aggressive. He studies “beauty” as a balancing practice.
• [38:21] He shares a success story of a woman in a wheelchair who defended herself after training, underscoring the inclusivity and empowering nature of the program.
• [38:54] The focus is on survival and safety rather than confrontation. David advises giving up possessions if necessary but defending personal safety fiercely.
• [39:57] Contact details are provided for those interested in classes and learning more.

1. 1. 1. 1. [40:40 → 56:42] Herbal Medicine, Plant Knowledge, Inflammation, and Community Health

• [41:17] David talks about plant medicines, noting continuous scientific discoveries about Hawaiian and Chinese herbs’ efficacy.
• [41:51] He references Dr. Sidney Uden, a herbalist who traveled widely and developed herbal cancer treatments, emphasizing how some knowledge may be ahead of its time.
• [42:25] David teaches “wildcrafting” and nature skills (fire-starting, shelter building, navigation, tracking) through Earth Medicine Institute, blending survival and plant medicine education.
• [43:28] He encourages appreciation of local plants, including “weeds,” which can be potent medicines.
• [44:03] On the topic of cramps, David attributes causes to inflammation and possible genetic/epigenetic factors, recommending anti-inflammatory herbs such as kava and certain Chinese herbs that expel “wind dampness.”
• [46:19] He explains the importance of gut microbes in preventing inflammation, linking healthy diets rich in vegetables to microbial balance and overall wellness.
• [47:28] The concept of hormesis is introduced: mild stressors (like herbs or exercise) strengthen the body by triggering adaptive responses.
• [48:31] David reaffirms his flexitarian diet, noting that lifestyle and food choices inspire others without imposing strict rules.
• [48:57] The conversation touches on local agriculture and the importance of organic, self-sufficient food systems to resist corporate control.
• [50:37] Systemic Candida is discussed as a real condition linked to bodily imbalance, often associated with diabetes or poor diet but not exclusively.
• [52:16] David advises whole, unprocessed foods and healthy lifestyle habits to mitigate conditions like Candida.
• [53:31] He shares personal joys: teaching, research on inflammatory pathways (NRF2, NF-kB), hiking, travel, and community connection.
• [54:07] David describes himself as a healthcare provider who embraces diverse modalities to serve patients holistically.
• [54:57] Reflecting on Maui, David expresses concern about unchecked development and corporate influence but remains optimistic about the island’s spirit and potential for sustainable growth.
• [55:29] The show closes with a reminder that personal responsibility and community engagement are key to improving the world.

1. 1. 1. Key Insights

• Integration of Disciplines: David’s work uniquely integrates acupuncture, herbal medicine, self-defense, and sacred sexuality through the framework of nervous system regulation and body awareness.
• Nervous System “Hacking”: Traditional cultural practices serve as natural tools to optimize human perception, emotional regulation, and physical response.
• Self-Defense Philosophy: Emphasis on prevention, awareness, and assertiveness over aggression; nervous system retraining reduces trauma impact and empowers survivors.
• Holistic Sexuality: Sexuality is deeply interconnected with nervous system states, relationship health, and personal responsibility.
• Plant Medicine and Inflammation: Chronic inflammation is a root cause of many ailments; diet, gut health, and herbal medicines play critical roles in maintaining balance.
• Community and Environment: Sustainability and self-sufficiency are vital to resist corporate dominance and preserve local health.
• Personal Growth and Balance: Maintaining individual identity (“rooting”) alongside healthy relationships is central to wellbeing.

1. 1. 1. Keywords

Acupuncture, Herbal Medicine, Earth Medicine Institute, Plant Medicine, Sacred Sexuality, Self-Defense, Nervous System, Adrenaline, Parasympathetic State, Flexitarian Diet, Integrative Medicine, Traditional Medicine, Vietnamese Medicine, Chinese Medicine, Relationship Sanctuary, Nervous System Regulation, Trauma Recovery, Women’s Self-Defense, Assertiveness, Inflammation, Gut Microbes, Hormesis, Wildcrafting, Sustainable Agriculture, Candida, Personal Responsibility, Community Health, Maui.

1. 1. 1. FAQ

Q: What is the Earth Medicine Institute?
A: It is an educational organization founded by David Bruce Leonard that teaches plant medicine, self-defense, and nature skills integrating traditional knowledge with modern science.

Q: How does self-defense training help survivors of assault?
A: The training exposes participants to adrenaline in a controlled environment to retrain the nervous system, helping them bypass freeze responses and empowering their physical and psychological safety.

Q: What is the “relationship sanctuary” model?
A: It is a relational framework where each partner maintains a personal sanctuary of self-care and responsibility, alongside a relationship sanctuary focused on mutual support and enhancing each other’s quality of life.

Q: How is inflammation linked to common health issues?
A: Chronic inflammation underlies many conditions like cramps, systemic Candida, and metabolic diseases. Diet, gut microbiota, exercise, and certain herbs can reduce inflammation.

Q: What is the role of plant medicine in modern healthcare?
A: Plant medicines offer natural compounds that complement Western medicine. They can provide holistic benefits focused on balancing or cleansing the body, depending on tradition.

This comprehensive summary captures the depth and breadth of David Bruce Leonard’s insights shared on The Neutral Zone, highlighting his integrative approach to health, relationships, and community wellbeing.

0:00

what happens at 11 o’clock the new to zone here on kak 88.5 FM welcome to our show [Music] [Music] [Music] this hand [Music] please oh that’s very interesting to me this is Jason Schwartz I’m here with a doctor should I say done no okay David Bruce Leonard I’m here on Maui many people know David David is the director founder of the earth medicine Institute and is an acupuncturist and works in herbal medicine and as all kinds of things that he does as well with him and his partner all kind of

01:31

stuff so firstly welcome to our show thanks Jason we’re in a funny format here because we’re on radio for those of you who can’t see David is 8 foot tall or can’t see you’re a foot tall and 7 feet wide my self-image if you’re on Facebook live you can see us you can also watch afterwards at Maui neutral zone calm sea all of our shows we have different kinds of things in although we’re neutral zone of course you know we’re not neutral and I I was having a guest this week we’re going to

02:04

talk about film Barry from the college teaches world cinema but he couldn’t make it and I called IDI fell and fell as a how would I describe he’s a remarkable human being a remarkable human being with many facets like many of the diamonds on Maui and he couldn’t make it Monday and I said who would you think is an interesting good guest and he said to me David Bruce Leonard I called you and I thought what a great choice all right I’m off to write him a check so how would you describe yourself

02:40

and what you’re doing wow that’s a great question i don’t i don’t actually know i was hoping you could go some clues i well the clues that i got were your your keywords we live in a computer age you guys know that stuff plant medicine plant medicine yeah that’s a good good sexuality which is human sexuality a self-defense and self-defense yeah those are three big arenas yeah but they all it’s interesting life is a whole when you look at it holistically a lot of stuff fits together their natural

03:12

growth out of the same yeah absolutely well you know I the way I think of those things where the overlap is is the way we navigate our nervous system is the human nervous system so a lot of with the the plant medicine a lot has to do with gathering protocols and nature skills and how we kind of hack our nervous system to to navigate the natural world and also the reclamation of our bodies and what do you mean by hack our nervous system well I have a theory that traditional cultures that the techniques used by traditional

03:49

hunter-gathering cultures essentially hack the nervous system allow us shortcuts into how to enhance our own nervous system meaning stimulants to create more activity well no no I don’t mean substances I mean specific techniques for hunting and gathering so a lot of what I focus on is the way we navigate adrenaline and there in our bodies and the adrenaline is kind of a continuous and contiguous thread through plant medicine through sacred sexuality and through self-defense and because we live in our nervous systems and and our

04:30

hormones and neurotransmitters dictate a lot of how we show up in the world and so plant gathering practices there’s there’s things like peripheral vision there’s what I call locus and focus is which is where we focus on our body and traditional cultures use these these techniques these specific techniques to increase the amount of data that we can absorb from our environment okay I’m just gonna make you a little louder okay yeah good and in sexuality the a lot of a lot of the way we navigate our

05:08

sexuality is about how we how we can embody a parasympathetic relaxed comfortable state and in self-defense it’s how we navigate our Adrenaline’s these are all different ways of nervous system and the human nervous system is universal but these skills will cross boundaries you know the skills that we learned from self defense can enhance our sexuality and the skills we learned from our sexuality can enhance our our nature skills I’m like a noisy no no I’m just I want to make sure

05:42

you’re the distance notice how I’m about this far got it when you get your more active way and I just wanted to hear the presence of what you’re saying so great yeah okay how did you get into all this I mean I always think about my ex-wife when I just got married in 1978 went to California octopods college and I was the guy holding up the cue cards a very soon lateral you know exactly exactly stuff but I didn’t retain but I’ve been introduced to herbs and occupancy long ago and it wasn’t always an easy road

06:19

I’m sure that it’s become a growing acceptance in the Western culture and so when I’m hearing that I was wondering we yourself we’re in the three things we did you have a passion that put together I started out well I’ve always done sacred sexuality my whole adult life but I I was in Asia as a young man I was 21 years old and I was in Katmandu and I had this I was walking down the street and I had this epiphany that I should study acupuncture out of nowhere so I went to a store and bought some needles

06:55

and found a teacher and bought some books and then I came back to the west and put off my education until I was thirty at which case I went to five branches University in California and studied there yeah so and then when I in acupuncture school I fell in love with plant medicine and that’s been an abiding passion ever since that’s good so you are I guess you’d say a proponent of there are solutions in the natural plant world where pharmaceuticals are manufactured and created to simulate the

07:31

plant medicine that has been found to be effective but these things can be patented and identified as their so it becomes a product where you can’t take a leaf or a piece of bark right they’re patented while they’re working on patenting those things are they no I think so yeah yeah yeah but no I I think it’s all good I think all tools are good I think Western medicine is awesome I think I’m not creating I’m not crazy about corporate medicine but Western medicine is incredible I think Chinese medicine

08:01

medicine is incredible I just got back from Vietnam a few months ago and their medicine is amazing amazing maze it differ in its orientation religion it’s well it’s very similar to Chinese medicine except that it’s more integrated with Western medicine than Chinese medicine is here in the West but also it’s more about cleansing Chinese medicine traditional Chinese medicine moves more into balancing but Vietnamese medicine which comes from Chinese medicine is much more mokele-mbembe

08:34

points same herbs but quite different approach cleansing meaning whatever in your body isn’t good get it out of detoxifying yeah whereas you’re saying that Chinese medicine would tend to focus more theoretically on balance so that’s necessarily getting anything out but just making it more balanced it might get things out but the but the way they’re describing it is different so here we have these two different variations on modality and I think that of the word last week there was mention

09:08

of traditional medicine versus conventional medicine yeah versus it’s very unusual contemporary medicine I don’t think that contemporary medicine but yeah so they for a while the trend was to call it alternative medicine and now we’re calling it integrative medicine and you know ultimately it’s it’s all just medicine right as long as there is no alternative but right right do you use diet as part of your strategy imagine something I do yeah a lot a lot I’m I I’m an I’m a flexitarian I eat

09:46

I’ll eat anything but I’m primarily vegan so I never heard that word flex it a flexitarian means I’m not I’m not dogmatic about my food choices but I’m at home I’m about 90% vegan yeah and a little bit of dairy and if I’m out I made meat or whatever I don’t buy meat at home now I understand that I looked in the records to you about 83 now so looking good for 83 that’s not true folks no so you’re in good shape and you yeah you know if what you speak and work about which obviously

10:20

is I used to find it funny when I went to the doctor with my father and the doctor would be the smoker who died early and had the hard thing right right you know I believe in making informed choices I don’t I don’t personally think there’s any morality and health myself I don’t think that healthy people are better than unhealthy people I think that but the the trick is of course being accountable and taking responsibility for our choices that it’s nice I always like to put in enough

10:48

information so the people that are making choices have something to really see statistics that are yeah so clear yeah I’ve been reading about the title of the book was how to not die a nice tie like yeah and it was a best-seller and it’s like I’m just reading it just because I’m starting to work with hydrogen HHO machine okay but and as I’m reading I’m realizing I am man I have to keep giving up to so much stuff here and then I’m realizing it’s really a choice we have you have choices

11:25

there’s only behavior and consequences there’s no morality and what we put in our bodies personally that’s my opinion you know yeah and so and you know my experience of myself and with my patients is that slow is better than fast in terms of change and you know if we were if we take away a pleasant pleasure we have to replace it with another pleasure hopefully healthy pleasures but we’re going to get X units to pleasure every week so we’re either going to do it by beating the dog or enjoy

11:55

or eating junk food or by exercising or by having healthy sexuality or whatever or no yeah I’ve always asked my doctor I’d like a prescription for sex so you prescribed I imagine healthy sexuality as being a really important part of absolutely yeah yeah yeah yeah it’s part of our parts part of our birthright as human beings it’s amazing that we can it amazing to watch the way a society has viewed all this stuff over even our lifetime I know and we’re societal phrenic around sexuality in the West you

12:26

know I’ve taught in Europe a lot and they are much much healthier in terms of their approach to sexuality there’s there’s they’re grown-ups here we’re very we’re very schizoid you know we’ll we’ll go from having too much sex on them in the media to having this deep shame around it in our private lives you know it’s an interesting dichotomy here and the definition of relationships I mean I have a partner for this is 25 years congratulations and I love Arielle but now we never got married yeah and

13:01

sexuality is part of our movie but you know it’s work really well maintaining a distance like Mick and Bianca you know it’s like Luna fest and there are groups on on Maui that I want to say practice but have polyamory meaning multiple partners and there and all kinds of groups healthy happy people exploring things that yeah there’s no one-size-fits-all I mean I’ve seen it like waves even and yeah like I say the 60s was free love the seventies was sort of bridge right then of clothes then it

13:37

got weird then AIDS then right now it’s a powerful force I mean it’s amazing how much I mean Freud was right he was absolutely right that our sexuality is a huge driver in our behavior and it’s so it’s like it’s like fish don’t know they’re in water we don’t realize how much our sexuality runs us well I would like to see more healthy sexuality meaning relationships that in my mind relationships that might go to physical sex but also have all the other things that go with love I mean exactly exactly

14:14

and sometimes sexuality can bring on love right as you can when I was younger and I have a partner and then later I was wondering why am I feeling so much desire to help them it’s just a very close bonding we’re hardwired for that you know my partner and I my partner’s name is Jodi Bayard we have a model of relationships we call a relationship sanctuary that we teach to couples and a relationship sanctuary consists of two personal sanctuaries each each personal sanctuary the each person like so I have

14:50

a personal sanctuary and my my job in the personal sanctuary is to self-soothe and self confront and and recognize that I am completely responsible for my quality of life nobody owes me anything and I’m responsible for my quality of life on top of that or over that is a relationship sanctuary and my job in the relationship sanctuary is to watch my partner’s back and make sure I increase my partner’s quality of life so these two things is kind of an older sort of a 50s or 60s model of relationship where

15:25

we watch each other’s backs and then this sort of a 90s or 2000s model where we have to be happy ourselves in our personal sanctuary so it’s a balance well that’s interesting as I’m listening now I am older I don’t think in 50s and 60s me so I had a very traditional but I had a mother and father that watched each other’s backs and taught love and hearing responding and you know how and now in the 90s you say it’s more like me oh it was more like what do they say yeah what do they

16:02

say you can’t love other people if you can’t love yourself which is which is stupid but that’s what they say right you know this since the year did that come I don’t know if I can equate it with it but since the internet where there’s more information for more choices for people to learn there’s not as much depth going on you know people aren’t full I don’t find people focusing as much iPhone oh that’s interesting very broad approach with young people and so when you’re talking about personnel

16:31

well you scare yourself first I’m wondering do they reach that next larger sphere of personal and personal and relationship do they get there now let’s say I don’t know I mean people are neurologically challenged from oh you know iPhones and iPads and stuff and do our our attention span is now about 3.6 seconds you know yeah but I think that the the process of being accountable and making sure I’m filling my own bowl my own bucket in my life and then reaching out to my partner is a really nice

17:06

balance between taking care of myself and then and doing my work we all have to do our work and then taking care of my partner and making sure that she’s without enabling her so I want to make sure her quality of life is increased without enabling her shadows or her neuroses right and that always has the other component which is in my the other component which is when someone may have issues you love them and you’re there and you’re supportive you do your best to help them through these things

17:38

exactly and then we all have issues it meant that that commitment that’s what I meant about a larger thing there’s not only me and you and you’re not changing I’m being patient by and it’s like a exactly different kind of an attitude sexuality although always honoring I think through all these years does it have a different kind of wait the young people have more freedom or perceived freedom in sexuality I think so I think this I think there’s more Liberty but that kind of Liberty comes with a with a

18:08

a penalty which is a lot like you say a lack of depth I think there’s you know because we’re so hardwired to be sexual now there’s much more license to be wild and crazy’ which is wonderful in some ways but it’s very limiting in others because you know we we we could possible to treat our partners as as if they were disposable in which case there’s not a deeper connection and we don’t get the the you know learning to delay gratification is what defines us as adults all right

18:40

that’s a very interesting parallel delay of gratification you’re and sexuality and the way people are and the way they go through their life they either have all their pleasure now yeah or you can save your money and and have a retirement or you know and that’s how we define children children do not delay gratification they want it now and that’s that’s how they’re wired but they have to their frontal lobes need to develop their you know the prefrontal lobes the way they think making them

19:12

into grownups means teaching them to delay gratification and look to the long view of their lives and make choices do you ever counsel parents on how to let go really I don’t I’m I’m just bringing it up because I know that’s the one it’s a big one yeah someone’s pain you know they’re in your person I don’t know if that’s sexuality maybe it is that’s a type of yoga yeah it’s it’s like a very strong one things are happening to your kids or your brother and your sister and yeah

19:43

it’s you can’t do anything about it or you perceive you can’t do anything and I think as we grow older you know with our siblings we rely even with our parents we realize we’re separate people we individuate we differentiate we have to do that with our partners our spouses and we have to do it with our parents and with our kids you know we have to differentiate and realize that at some point we course we always love them but they’re separate people and they’re gonna make mistakes and we’re you’re

20:08

gonna transmit our shadow to our children you know the parts of us we don’t like they’re gonna pick up on in this no way around it and they’re going to come in with shadow kids are gonna come in with their own shadow so we but um I think there’s a healthy balance between kind of leading kids to becoming healthy human beings but not smothering or kin over controlling them and I’m I have I brought up I think it’s always interesting that parent when kids are going through good and bad

20:37

you know there’s the proud parent but there’s also the the parent that wishes it could be better for their kid and horses pain you know yeah yeah and it’s it’s hard but see that what you said you also say in a relationship that sexual relationship it’s important to also have your own cone you’ve exactly balanced yeah exactly and because that’s gonna allow you to have that health and we’re social creatures you know we need other people in the social mirror what we

21:07

hallucinate other people think about us is incredibly important but if it becomes too important we lose our core we lose our roots so that’s a very very hope everyone heard that one real clear if we concerned about what everyone thinks about us were overly consol really concerned and we forget who and what we are and our own mission generate that is really a beautiful place to be I call that routing that processes routing and I envision as a tree so Who I am is my MS as my roots going down to the

21:45

earth and the branches that go out is my my feelings about other people and my sensitivity to the world do you find that your work in sexuality with partner and people has direct link to your occupy sure do you find like for example do you have clients that go from acupuncture into sexual healing to you or the other way – yeah I mean as a clinician as an acupuncture clinician I don’t even broach those my patients or my patients and I don’t I’d very rarely will coach them on sexuality just to

22:18

keep a fine line there but so in other words as your prescribed I was like I said earlier I used to say to Rick sands which senses my doctor yeah yeah I say Rick I want a prescription for sex and he’d laugh few times yeah but you know as a lot of people are very frustrated in some of these I’ll talk about it in a general way with my patients but I’m careful because there’s really two different arenas specially in the world that we see now where you know you miss inappropriate yeah and for exactly and gosh knows yeah

22:52

but there is a large overlap because I believe the differentiation or finding our route is a physiological process I think it happens in the body and that that it’s not doesn’t just happen in our head it happens with an awareness of our torso and our legs and etc and that acupuncture can help that process of identifying our deeper self or a course of somatically in our body so that’s kind of one overlap you find that i you’re over the years i imagine you have patients and you have students like you

23:26

say separate uh-huh and in your earth institute you actually teach all kinds of different things and you have all kinds of practitioners i want to say working under your banner yeah right now I’ve had a lot of people right now it’s it’s mostly me but we’ve done we’ve done big conferences and I’ve had lots of people working for me and it’s really exciting at the earth Medicine Institute we do earth medicine and self-defense and then well not my partner nights heat sacred sexuality that’s a whole other

23:57

arena a different website and yes II yeah so it’s self-defense oh and I think of sacred sexuality to me that that self-defense comes in also it’s like having the sense of yourself and being able to defend yourself and being balanced to be able to then yeah be able to be in a sexual relationship and comfortable about what boundaries yeah we we call it sacred yes sacred no I say you can’t say yes if you can’t say no well I’m gonna make sure to to give out your phone numbers and all that kind of

24:29

stuff I’m gonna kind of think about where I might here we’ve got about a minute till we go on a break any areas that you’ve been wanting to speak about will start to address when we come back but I’m here with David Bruce Leonard acupuncturist herbologist etc etc here on Maui I’m Jason Schwartz this is the neutral zone eighty eight point five kak you 333 dairy row you know we are we have enough I don’t know if it’s an affiliate but ikkaku TV and soon you’re gonna be seeing some of what we do on TV

25:08

with b-roll so as we’re talking about stuff we’re gonna be talking about things that you’ll see some b-roll you’d be able to see what we’re talking about and we hope that will then let all you people on the television know there’s a radio station we’ve got all these great shows we want everyone to know that we’re here 88.5 FM kak you we’re gonna go on break and come back with David Bruce Leonard we’ll see in just a few minutes the neutral zone with me Jason Schwartz

25:42

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26:31

Kahului this introduction to radio will get your feet wet and show you what you need to do to get started interested call us at 875 5:4 for more information and registrations Aloha this is still best inviting you to join me for my show on ke ke you 88.5 FM it’s off the record and I have a chance to speak with some of the most interesting people on and off the island so be sure to listen in every Tuesday and Thursday from 11 until noon dear on ke ke you the voice of Maui 88.5 FM hi I’m Jason Schwartz host of the neutral

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zone hey aku is a listener-supported station this means that all the great programs you hear like mine are sponsored by you as well as armed writers if you would like to help keep the voice of Maui looking loud and clear go to kak UF m dot org slash donate today and give and don’t miss the neutral zone Mondays at 11 a.m. on 88.5 FM a voice of Maui hi I’m Jason Schwartz host of the neutral zone a aku is a listener-supported station this means that all the great programs you hear like mine are

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sponsored by you as well as our underwriters if you would like to help keep the voice of Maui can loud and clear go to kak UF m dot org slash donate today and give them and don’t miss the neutral zone Mondays at 11:00 a.m. on 88.5 FM voices now you make sure his toys don’t have any sharp edges you taught her what to do when the smoke alarm goes off and to wear a helmet when she rides her bicycle you do so much to keep your child safe but are you using the right car seat for your child car crashes are a leading killer

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of children ages 1 to 13 protect your child’s future at every stage of life for information on the right seat for your child visit safercar.gov/therightseat a message from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Ad Council Hey yeah we’re back Jason Schwartz with David Bruce Leonard we were talking about acupuncture and so I’d like to get into the self defense area if we could yeah interesting there they add that was just on what’s about keeping kids safe children safe well

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what about when they grow up what about when they become you know they’re 15 16 17 they’re go to college how do you keep women safe how do you keep girls safe you know and that’s that’s something that is really important to me and I’ve been teaching for many years and we do classes and women’s self-defense a lot of the focus of our classes is about not being there when trouble happens it’s not about fighting although we teach fighting but that’s only as an absolute last resort when there’s no way

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out you know we say that when violence is always your last choice but when it is your last choice it’s your only choice so ideally you want to you want to prevent deescalate not be in the situation in the first place but if you have no choice then you need to fight and I also think it’s interesting that as a perspective people that fight and have the capability to could do some damage because they’re trained are reluctant to fight they try to avoid situations because they know they have you know a skilled that’s you

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know only mentee I used to say you don’t use it unless you need it and if you need it you need to know it so yeah great yeah where do you guys do this up countries so we have we have a we teach in hi in haiku and down in Kokomo Road and we do we have a class coming up a week from Sunday a women’s class we have two slots left and we go over it’s kind of a full spectrum class we go over the mind of a predator how to de-escalate situations reading body language cues predators will say things that will let

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you know that they might be predatory so there’s this verbal cues you can you can hear that’ll warn you and also a lot of it’s about trusting your instinct because our limbic system is way older than our species and we we can read especially women who go to the spin men too we can read situations do you find that in our I want to say in our age where every story becomes you know gets sensationalized do you teach your students to know the difference between and really be subtle to the fact that

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sometimes someone isn’t doing something to use and not to alarm you to be comfortable at some point that well what we what I always tell my students is your safety is always more important than somebody else’s feelings you know it’s it’s if you need to tell somebody to take a hike if you’re not sure that’s what you do you know and this this work also can be transformative neurologically or somatically when because what we do is we a lot of these women have been assaulted that we teach

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I see and so what we do is we put them in weary adrenalized them we bring the adrenaline back up and we teach them to bypass their freezer response so we teach them in a dangerous situation to use large muscle groups to protect themselves also in that process what we do is we’re containing in we create a container that’s very safe and oftentimes in that container in these scenarios I have a suit I wear that allows me to take full-contact blows that I would be dead if I didn’t have the suit on and in that container

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we can recreate a scenario and give the body a different outcome so a woman that’s been assaulted we might be you know in a very safe setting she’ll be reanalyzed in her body has a different outcome to that and that tends to to modulate the nervous system and reduce the the impact of the trauma how larger your groups pretty small I’d imagine yeah because I can only I can only do so many situations in the suit so we have we limit our classes to eight students ain’t women so that’s a great

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opportunity for a couple of ladies what kind of age range do you have in your class it can be well we can teach younger younger girls but mostly it’s we say 14 and 15 and up you know we’ve talked we’ve taught women in their teens and we’ve certainly taught a lot of women up to up to their 70s and you’ve been doing these kind of things for a while so do you see I want to say you ever attract the people afterwards and how their lives are and but before and after we do yeah and this this work was

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created by a man named Matt Thomas and then I studied with a student of his his name is Bill Kip and Matt has tracked over a thousand confrontations and over 280 I think jointed in 83 physical altercations and of women who’ve taken the class and out of those 283 I think six of them lost and the rest of them defeated their attacker physically so that’s a really high rate of success with when women even there was one woman who who took the class in 35 years later she defended herself so it really gets

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into the nervous system and works in so that we bypassed the freeze response and we learned to make women safe and in 35 years I’m always wondering you know in social situations I’ve I’ve seen it happen where someone says something and the reactions that happen I don’t know if they get too physical I don’t know if that’s really the same but sometimes people say things that others react differently so I’m always very what I’m yeah we always teach our students don’t become passive and don’t

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become aggressive to become assertive because if you’re passive and you and you you run you can initiate a predator response and in a predator he’ll they’ll chase you if you are overly aggressive you can create trigger and you can escalate the aggression but being assertive is a line in the sand do you have classes for men to show me – yes what their role is in social I want to call it social I’m eight it’s not more made but their part is yeah their part is yeah it’s very interesting stuff

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yeah we work with men also and but also some self-defense for men I think our I think our records for men we’ve only been teaching badminton teaching men very long I think we have 28 wins and no losses men have taken the class and have been assaulted well I’m thinking about the the times that they’re not assaulted because they’re strengthen themselves and their understanding how to be assertive rather than right being a different position gave them a new level of strength so our community so it’s

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just like when you go into a community and they say well the reason that people their religious goes with me Jason Schwartz would like to thank Naoko motors Malik our rehearsal is located at 181 dairy road across from the fire station in Khalu they’ve served the Maui communities it was in 30 years with services and used cars and automobile rentals find them online at Maui car rentals net are at 877 3,300 the new Mondays live at 11 a.m. and again on Saturdays at 7 a.m. on kak u 88.5 FM we did that with no hands I don’t know how

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that went on we’re psychic they telling us about us thank you said of a man in situation that in situations I’m always curious cuz I had a friend who was in Tibetan Buddhism but he also was black belt martial arts for years and he always made me realize that he taught everyone to recognize their ability and power so that in situations they like you say we’re more assertive but also knew when to not be and understood their their personal power and the need to be careful with it although assertive so absolutely yeah

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yeah that’s why I’m a man I studied with he believes that we he encourages me to study beauty and if I if I continuously study beauty things that are ugly in the world will become really obvious and then when I’ve dealt with what that stuff I go back to studying beauty that’s how not how that’s how to do this work and not become jaded I got you yeah well you do with a partner who I know Jody and I think yes often yeah beautiful and wonderful so on I don’t think I guess you probably you know Lisa

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theis there you know her yes yes I do yeah so the women and self-defense or I know I yeah and they’re very be surprised what women can do it’s amazing so someone who is soft and gentle and beautiful doesn’t have to be afraid that you have all kinds of people in your classes oh yeah there was a proposal woman is my teacher bill Kipp taught she was in a wheelchair this was in California and her biggest fear was that she would be assaulted while in her wheelchair so she took the class ages a

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special class for her yeah and a few years later somebody broke into her apartment and assaulted her Wow and she knocked him out cold called the police and he’s now in prison in California Wow yeah so it’s quite effective well you know it’s interesting how I’m backpedaling from absolutely that’s what I’m hearing that that’s what this self defense stuff is about when there’s an incident you are the supreme I’m just supposed to getting home alive you know whatever

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that tastes yeah I’m just thinking that my focus is on trying to not confront but when you have to confront know yeah right exactly right yeah and you have to win on the street you have to win in the courts too so there’s a lot of material that we teach an articulation on the laws on you know I always encourage people to give up property if somebody comes into the house and leave the house just get out you know that’s the smart thing to do no you don’t wanna be a hero you don’t want

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to risk anything you know somebody steals your car let him have it somebody wants your wallet let him have it but once it comes down to your personal body and your personal safety that’s where you draw the line I see yeah well you know about self-defense do you want to give some specifics or anything like of how people can get in touch I think it’s important before we jump off to a different thing yeah you can email me at earth medicine at protonmail comm proton Pio and you know you can go to the website earth

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medicine Institute and you’ll find the area on there yeah and yeah like I said we have a class coming up a week from Sunday on March 24th I believe yeah and it’s really fond of very supportive and I have two female instructors and me and we go over the whole gamut of personal safety so great well I’m glad we’ll get this on TV and it’ll hopefully have afterburn too because right yeah got going I know yeah I think I’m gonna take a few moments and I want to say take advantage of free consultation I have a

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coupon cursed in front of me and guy and I you know what I think years ago we had a guest here you know Lyons neonatal yeah and way back when he was first teaching herbs I took a class with him and sadly I don’t remember very much or never some yeah this la I’m sure there’s overlap totally in Hawaiian herbs and there’s a lot of overlaps a lot of Chinese herbs grow in Hawaii yeah would you say that around us we have solutions to many of the things that absolutely absolutely there’s so many

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solutions I mean it’s a month doesn’t go by where I I see it I’ll find information on a plant I’ve been looking at for 25 years in Hawaii and all of a sudden there’s new science said this plant is good for this this condition of this situation you know so I always think about plant medicines my ex-wife I mean that’s my exposure in my where my original thing with herbs and I go there was a guy named Sidney you dr. Sidney uten traveled the world 108 countries came back with herbal formulas and was

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saving people from cancer multiple sclerosis huh it’s funny cuz it was what do they say before it’s time huh cries orbble combinations might still be good right there may be other companies doing do you make preparations yourself what did I do for my patients yeah I have a full pharmacy and you know that it’s interesting because I just spent a week ago Sunday I was teaching with dainko or his Silva in Kona and we were the class was called science catches up Hawaiian longevity practices for the

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current age and you know many many of these traditional practices Chinese and Hawaiian practices have their roots or have been discovered to be scientifically valid so that’s that’s always in heartening to see that well it’s nice to share it and let people hear that do you teach that kind of stuff also yeah you know we teach a teacher in Maui and we do we’ll do what we call wildcrafting certifications which is five weekends we will do nature skills certification which is fire-starting shelter bidding

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building star navigation you know tracking things like that they’re different the while crafting is more plant medicine and the nature skills are more you know survival kind of things we see see everyone know where’s the name Earth Medicine Institute is gonna be thinking well there’s all kinds of good stuff you should go up to their website and check them out I really when I oh you know I’ve heard your name you know I have seen your name I’ve seen you around through the years you know it’s

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interesting how so many people we are all busy with our lives that we don’t stop I’m very glad we got a chance to sit here yeah great let me ask you a couple of odd ones okay in my lifetime I’ve been around people that just cannot figure it out cramps maybe sounds like an innocent word huh cramps in any specific color I mean she’s got it her kids have gotten it her grandkids of God menstrual cramps you mean no no no don’t suddenly cramp in your leg in your arm cramp in your head can’t sleep through a

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single night without cramps well too much sugar this that interesting I asked every doctor since the beginning of time and no one has a figured it out so I thought oh yeah okay well there’s a lot of plants that are used for cramping thistle and certain plant families are known for those things there’s also looking at a foundational piece of inflammation in the body which is a little bit different than your question but I think it sort of addresses the root of it that a lot of many many many

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conditions in our body are correlated to inflammation so so if we kid has it I’m just always wondering do we have systems that have a tendency toward absolutely and there could be there could be you know genetic component or an epigenetic component where the propensity is you know like maybe certain foods will trigger cramping in certain you know genetic lines and not and others now kind of ver I want to say plant essential oils are they are good yo or well in in Hawaiian herbs kava is known

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for relaxing muscle spasm you know the sensitive grass the gila gila the one that closes when you touch it yeah plant that you can use for cramping you need to boil it yuca has to be boiled and it has thorns you have to filter it very well but you can make it as a tea do not try this at all no you’re doing no don’t don’t ever put anything in your mouth right or that you don’t know where it is or where it’s very important right yeah so that’s that’s been used um there’s a lot of Chinese herbs for

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that there’s a whole category of Chinese herbs called expel wind dampness and those are used for cramping um let’s see yeah well I’m just always something wondering about preventive you know it’s like always thinking how do you get a good night’s sleep don’t know what the answer to preventive is is eating well it’s like your grandma said eating lots of vegetables or unload your vegetables because the the vegetables have an amount a certain amount of nutrition in them but the fiber in the vegetables we

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can’t digest but our gut microbes digest and those gut microbes are responsible or can prevent a lot of inflammation in the body so if you eat vegetables it keeps your gut microbes happy we have a thousand different species of microbes in our body different species Wow nine out of ten over the cells in our body are not our DNA nine out of ten no kidding yeah they’re microbes the microbes we were actually like a city so when you look at who we are as individuals it kind of just shifts our

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definition a bit so the way to think about this stuff rather than what do I use for cramps what do I use for you know diarrhea what we use for constipation is how can I reduce the inflammation in my body the chronic inflammation and that is is food will do it saunas will do it exercise will do it there’s something called hormesis which is a resist we have so things that hormesis is difficulty and a lot of the herbs that we take work because our body rejects them and that makes our bodies stronger

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like turmeric turmeric it is not actually terribly nutritious our body actually rejects it but that rejection is the kind of the bodies we have exercising and increase in in doing so doing decreases our inflammation that’s very interesting yeah Wow so I think thinking about the root you looks like what the root causes of things yes it’s different than just I have a headache what I will use for headaches it’s how can i how can I create less inflammation in my body and become a happier human

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being in small steps baby steps but regular step there we go that’s exactly just once in a while see I did exercise last week exactly yeah yeah and finding pleasure like I say we’re gonna get we’re gonna get X units of pleasure in our lives so retraining our mind to get pleasure from the activities that are good for us and would you say about food you’re a flexitarian LexA terian I like that word yeah yeah and you know my partner is a vegan and you would she has friends that have known her for years

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that never knew she was a vegan don’t know right you don’t even have to announce it you know exactly you show use it by the choices you put on your plate you don’t have to yeah exactly you don’t have to tell it that people are to live their lives you don’t eat right I don’t have to tell them not to eat right and you can but yeah and you vote with your you vote with your dollars you vote with your fork and then and that’s an inspiration to me what do you think of this new land thing have you had any

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input with people with the 41 thousand acres my no I’m not familiar with that any things you’d like to see grown here that we could really use anything organic I mean we need to be self-sufficient and to get under the boot of corporate eggs I’m always thinking anyway I know that there’s a spot on an island to be named that has ayahuasca which is a a in the middle of the jungles yeah it’s quite invasive actually so it’s contained it’s a contained sanctuary for the ayahuasca medicine I was interesting

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to me yeah you know the things that are grown here that may not be in that category but you mean as there are psychedelics or just in general general you know I don’t I don’t garden I have this have ten brown thumbs you know so I end up eating the weeds every time I put in the garden so I’m I’m a big fan of the weeds because we can get rid of them we can use them that’s a great attitude yeah the weeds are some of our best medicines absolutely the best yeah the way of they’re strong they’re

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they’re Hardy and you can you can get rid of them all without feeling bad they’re not native you know and there are very powerful medicines and turn them into soup baby permit – sukiya these lots of edibles make tinctures makes abs yeah Wow is now I’m going back from cramps which is a real problem many women have heard and I guess everyone heard of Candida and most people think it as a female sexual vein disease it’s a yeast infection right but what about systemic Candida I know someone who’s had it ya

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know it’s a year that’s very real and that’s that’s a result of imbalance in the body where Candida Candida exists naturally in our bodies it’s supposed to be there but if you get too much of it then you it becomes a problem I we used to say to my patients when I was working in the Big Island who were very overweight I could smell it oh no you know so it naturally occurs but it’s the same thing you know eat healthy exercise it’s all wash behind your ears all the stuff from your grandma said and those

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things and get that they will naturally change most of the P actually everybody that I knew that had systemic Candida who was overweight would have diabetes too and that’s the treatable stay away if I was wondering because uh this is an ex-wife I watched there this fighting at all the years could stand a very very Fix diet but as the circumstances changed the world doesn’t kind of know it’s time they have plenty of carbo’s and and just to be to be clear everybody with Candida is not overweight or have

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diabetes you know some people have and then you know this probably an epigenetic component there’s probably a part of their genes that are turned on and you know this this is a hundred different ways to do anything so anybody that has is has that situation I would card to encourage them to you know talk to professionals licensed practitioners explore options and don’t give up just keep trying because something will click in eventually well I’ve been watching that’s why I’m thinking what I mentioned

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the people that may have this kind of thing any food groups we know there shouldn’t be eating too many carbs and they shouldn’t be eating basically just don’t eat anything out of a box if you just eat food you know food grains vegetables right protein legs is not a good idea yeah the less processed food you eat the healthier you’re gonna be yeah and then you know if you’d a little meat whatever that’s fine but you know keep it organic keep it keep your food clean make your meals you know and you

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know yeah what do you enjoy most doing I mean when you wake up in the morning to you oh god I like I like planning my classes I like doing internet research on new plants oh there’s these lately I’ve been studying these two pathways in the body called nrf2 and nf-kb and they’re inflammatory processes and a lot of our Hawaiian herbs will work with these two biological pathways and reduce inflammation I do a lot of hiking I yeah I exercise quite a bit and I enjoy connecting with friends and planning

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trips I travel quite a bit and study plant medicines all over the tropics and I see from when I looking at your website you sometimes go with people on your trip yeah yeah we do our blocks and stuff like that yeah that’s a but I’m saying it’s just a you’re a healthy interactive community natural I know I’m not using the word doctor purposely but I a health care provider health care provider who takes the best of the modalities that you’ve worked with over the years and everything’s good and if it’s used in

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the right way absolutely yeah yeah um what do you see on Maui I mean you’ve been here now many years yes since 91 91 me – I got 88 so okay yeah same league right now what do you see going on here I see I see development destroying things that I love I see a system that is unwilling to make tough choices to make us to make to create independent agriculture I see a system that that is in some ways basically corrupt in the sense that corporations buy influence and it’s not yeah and I see an incredible spirit and

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beauty here among people and a lot of optimism which gives me optimism and a lot of potential for incredible things in the future well you know I know that this show and what we’re doing here is bringing interesting and I want to say great people to the public’s awareness where at some point we’re gonna be seeing how we all can fit together and be helping each other and self sustainable and doing things the right way the development and the things that get out of control I like to think that

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we have to have balance here locally in ourselves and our local systems all the stuff that’s going on at a distance is crazy we’ve got to just start getting to the fact that we’ve got to love each other more yeah exactly David Bruce Leonard is have been our guest here today we only got seconds to go it’s amazing I always think of all this music I want to play I have no time thank you for being with me here yeah yeah great to be with you come back again absolutely talk more about the feelings thank you all for

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being here with us at the neutral zone you can look up on our website now a neutral zone cops listen and hear this again go on YouTube and know we love you and we know that the only way that the world is going to get better is personal you got to make your part and pump you’re part of it so here we go Aloha thank you for joining us today next week the neutral zone with me Jason Schwartz would like to thank Maui Arts and Music Association three makers Foundation of Maui for their support since 1991 with hundreds of television

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shows and their maui arts and music comm website they have champion self sustainability on Maui the neutral zone has earned live Mondays at 11 a.m. and replayed Saturday at 7 a.m. on kak u 88.5 FM the voice of Maui Aloha this is the best my show off the record is brought to you by Maui Toyota located at 320 Hana Highway in Kahului new and used sales and service for Toyota Scion and more for more information call 808 877 27 81 or go online at Maui toyota.com off the record is heard Tuesday and Thursday live at 11 a.m.