DEATH : Bodhi Be and the Death Store – ARISE !

Published on 06/17/2024 by Jason Schwartz

Jason Schwartz with Bodhi Be — Doorway Into Light – The Death Store… and more… 6-17-2024

Summary & Transcript below

[00:01 → 04:45]
Introduction and Overview of Doorway Into Light
The host welcomes Bod B, a long-time community figure and media host, to the Maui Neutral Zone show, marking six years of weekly broadcasting.
Doorway Into Light is introduced as a 501©(3) educational and charitable organization founded in 2006, primarily active in Hawaii, especially Maui.
Key initiatives:
- Since 2012, operates Hawaii’s only nonprofit funeral home located in Haiku.
- Provides educational programs, including international death doula trainings on Maui, attracting global participants.
- Monthly “Deaducation” events held at Heritage Hall, focusing on grief, death awareness, and community healing. Example: upcoming “earth grief dance” to support those grieving global crises.
- A storefront called the Death Store is open Saturdays (11 am–3 pm) on West Kuaha, serving as a welcoming space for conversations about death, dying, and community support.
The organization aims to transform the funeral home model from profit-driven to a community-centered sacred service emphasizing care and education rather than commercial gain.
[04:45 → 11:00]
Personal Reflections and Media Work
Bod B reflects on his decades of community engagement, media hosting, and promoting arts, music, and environmental awareness on Maui.
He discusses the challenges of sustaining community projects and the loneliness that can accompany pioneering efforts.
Bod B shares his upcoming physical surgery and planned break from media work, seeing it as a “doorway into light moment” for personal renewal.
The importance of unseen impact is highlighted, as small acts or words can ripple out to affect others in profound ways.
An example is shared about a listener whose life was changed by advice from Bod B years prior.
The host and Bod B discuss the difficulty in knowing the full reach of their work, especially when broadcast without live viewer feedback.
[11:00 → 16:12]
Homelessness and Housing Crisis on Maui
Discussion shifts to Bod B’s recent letter in local media addressing alternative housing solutions for the homeless on Maui.
Bod B emphasizes the urgency of supporting homeless people, particularly in death care, through Doorway Into Light’s expanded services.
Past fundraising efforts raised approximately $660,000 to help families affected by the Lahaina fire, now redirected to homeless support.
The homelessness and affordable housing crisis is framed as Maui’s biggest current issue, intertwined with escalating crime and social instability.
Bod B notes many homeless people are not stereotypical “poor or drug-addicted” but ordinary individuals who simply cannot afford housing amid soaring rents and shortages.
Historical context: 15+ years ago, Maui was already short by 8,000 housing units; now the shortage is dramatically worse with prices skyrocketing.

Topic	Key Points
Homelessness on Maui	Many homeless are not poor/drug addicts but victims of unaffordability and housing shortage.
Housing shortage	15+ years ago: 8,000 units short; now exponentially worse; affordable homes priced ~$500K+.
Doorway Into Light’s Role	Fundraising and service expansion to assist homeless, especially with death care needs.

[16:12 → 23:03]
Social and Environmental Concerns; Personal and Community Reflections
Bod B and host discuss frustration over slow government and community responses to urgent issues like housing, traffic, and environmental sustainability.
They reflect on Maui’s transformation over decades: from a more rural, tight-knit community to a complex, rapidly changing environment influenced by global forces such as tourism and social media.
The U.S. Surgeon General’s recent call for warning labels on social media apps due to mental health concerns is noted as a significant development.
Bod B underscores the importance of reclaiming lost parts of ourselves—creativity, playfulness, and deeper meaning—beyond the traditional definitions of success tied to money and career.
Many people, including those pursuing death doula work, are turning away from conventional success models toward more authentic, service-oriented, and creative paths.
The conversation touches on cultural conditioning that suppresses these aspects and the ongoing human struggle to break free from it.
[23:03 → 28:28]
The Broken Story of Society and the Great Turning
The discussion turns philosophical about why societal change seems stalled despite obvious problems.
Bod B describes how economic pressures trap many people in jobs they dislike because of financial obligations, creating a collective inertia.
A notable insight: The concept of the “carbon footprint” was partly invented by BP’s marketing to shift attention and guilt onto individuals rather than large polluting corporations, illustrating how powerful interests manipulate narratives.
This diversion has led to misplaced guilt over personal choices while the biggest polluters continue with little accountability.
The host and guest reflect on the duality of hope and hopelessness, common in those facing death or caregiving, as a metaphor for society’s oscillation between optimism and despair.
They acknowledge the pervasive feeling that humanity may be witnessing some of the last generations, given environmental and social crises.
The necessity of grieving collectively and honestly is emphasized as a healthy response to global suffering and loss.
[28:28 → 38:18]
Coping with Grief, Community, and Human Consciousness Transformation
Bod B discusses how many people distract themselves with social media, entertainment, or substances to avoid confronting grief and pain.
The conversation addresses the human condition of imperfection and the difficulty in achieving peace or harmony on a global scale.
Bod B suggests that global peace may be unattainable, but at minimum, humanity must learn to tolerate and coexist respectfully.
The conversation touches on generational awareness—how some people recognized these challenges decades ago and tried to act, but systemic issues persist.
Joanna Macy’s concept of The Great Turning is introduced, describing three responses to the current crisis:
1. Direct action – protesting and confronting broken systems.
2. Building new systems – sustainable farming, alternative education, community-building.
3. Transformation of human consciousness – shifting collective awareness to break cultural hypnosis and consumerism.

Response to The Great Turning	Description
1. Direct Action	Activism, protests, challenging harmful systems.
2. New Systems	Creating sustainable, regenerative communities and education.
3. Consciousness Transformation	Changing thinking patterns, breaking cultural hypnosis, fostering deeper awareness and connection.

Bod B emphasizes that the transformation of consciousness is crucial because without it, even sustainable technologies won’t stop ongoing conflict, violence, and environmental destruction.
[38:18 → 43:35]
Spirituality, Ministry, and Death Awareness
Bod B shares his experience as a minister for over 40 years, defining ministry as helping people beyond basic needs toward spiritual connection.
He identifies two fundamental human wounds:
- Primary wound: Disconnection from God or the sacred (called “the great mystery” or simply “love”).
- Secondary wound: Feelings of “not good enough,” often manifesting as low self-esteem or feeling unheard.
The Dalai Lama’s observation about people’s wealth paired with low self-esteem is cited to illustrate modern spiritual poverty.
Bod B discusses how many people, when facing illness or dying, wrongly believe they are being punished or are flawed, which adds to suffering.
Death awareness and grief work, like that done through Doorway Into Light, can shake people into a more fully alive and present life, stripping away trivial concerns and focusing on what truly matters.
The guest notes that the ministry evolved into forming an official church—the First Congregation of Doorway Into Light—meeting weekly at Baldwin Beach Pavilion, with services emphasizing community and acceptance rather than dogmatic preaching.
This church grew organically from the work of the nonprofit and the funeral home.
[43:35 → 53:26]
Community, Legacy, and the Importance of Small Acts
Bod B reflects on personal life: nearly 40 years of marriage, a homestead in Haiku, and deep love for Maui.
He affirms the joy and fulfillment found in serving the community through death care, hospice volunteering, and ministry without financial pressure.
The conversation turns to the realities of aging and mortality as friends and contemporaries pass away.
The guest references the book Ishmael by Daniel Quinn, which critiques restrictive societal structures such as privatization of food and disconnection from nature as root causes of systemic problems.
They discuss the cyclical nature of societal progress and regression, noting that despite some progress, many systemic issues remain entrenched, including racial injustice and lack of safety.
The erosion of community safety and trust contrasts with the past when children could play outside unsupervised, a sign of societal breakdown.
The host and Bod B emphasize that real richness in life is found in feeling safe, cared for, and connected, which is currently lacking for many.
They acknowledge that despite despair, every individual’s choices and actions make a difference in the world, especially through conscious spending and compassionate interactions.
[53:26 → 55:32]
Circle of Concern vs. Circle of Influence; Guiding Question of Love
Bod B distinguishes between the circle of concern (large, often overwhelming global problems) and the circle of influence (daily personal choices and interactions).
He encourages focusing on the circle of influence as a practical, empowering way to contribute positively.
His organization’s guiding question: “What does love look like now?”
Love is described as the most powerful and healing force one can bring to any interaction, whether with a dying person or a healthy individual.
The conversation closes with recognition that life involves both pain and joy, and love is the essential foundation to navigate it.
[55:32 → 56:15]
Closing Remarks
The host thanks Bod B for his wisdom, service, and friendship, encouraging the community to visit doorwayintolight.org to learn more and participate.
Final sentiments of respect, gratitude, and encouragement to continue the journey of community care and spiritual awareness are expressed.
The show concludes with a warm farewell and invitation to return next week.

Key Insights and Themes

Doorway Into Light is a pioneering nonprofit blending death education, grief support, and community funeral services, uniquely positioned on Maui.
The organization models a community-based, non-commercial approach to death care, emphasizing sacred service and education.
Homelessness and housing affordability are critical crises on Maui, deeply affecting individuals who often don’t fit stereotypes; solutions require community-driven, compassionate approaches.
There is a disconnection between people and authentic success, with many reclaiming creativity, service, and meaning beyond materialism.
The Great Turning framework explains societal responses to global crises, highlighting activism, alternative systems, and consciousness transformation as complementary paths.
Spiritual wounds of disconnection and low self-worth underlie much human suffering, which can be addressed through ministry and death awareness.
The power of small acts of love and recognition in daily life can ripple out to create meaningful change.
A focus on what one can influence rather than being overwhelmed by global problems is a practical and empowering perspective.
The emerging church of Doorway Into Light reflects a new model of ministry rooted in community, inclusivity, and death awareness without dogma.

FULL Timestamped Transcript

00:01

good morning everyone here we are it’s Monday at 11 hello everyone we are at the neutral zone Welcome to our [Music] show well look at this in front of me I see a man who has been here on this side of the microphone bod B welcome to the show aloha aloh hi Jason good morning perfect you came just at the right time you know um here at Maui neutral zone neutral Maui neutral zone.com 88.5 FM Ka kuu the voice of Maui simoc cast on akaku Maui Community TV this marks six years that I’ve been doing this show every

00:58

week to me is like wow six years that’s impressive Jason I don’t know how long it is in dog years but um it’s been a while and um I don’t know any dogs that could actually do this that’s pretty rough I got it so um you were on here doing your show for couple of years couple of years and death tracks right well there’s a theme I’ve heard before doorway into light name chosen because it shows itself and and and people think I’m talking about uh after you die that that’s where you go it is and it’s more

01:43

than that it’s in terms of how we need to grow our minds uh in um deeper and brighter ways and that and there are so many opportunities in our life time where we step through doorways into a brighter place I see but doorway into light is a how do you describe doorway into light is a 501c3 educational and charitable organization that has been uh providing educational programs in the state of Hawaii and other places in the world but mostly in the state of Hawaii especially on Maui since 2006 in 2012 we started the only

02:24

nonprofit Funeral Home in the state of Hawaii and continue to operate Hawaii’s only nonprofit funeral home here in Haiku um and our educational programs have expanded to online trainings and every year we have a international death duela training on Maui for people from around the world come to and now we’re doing a monthly event in Pia at Heritage Hall on the third Tuesday of every month uh it’s it’s called our Dead ucation series and in fact tomorrow night is the second um one and we’re having a earth

03:01

grief dance and uh I know a lot of people are feeling what’s happening in the world and it’s hurting if you’re a sensitive person how could you not be grieving and hurting about what’s playing on out there and and uh what I see now having LED uh uh groups grieving together how powerful and important it is for people to come together and and and honor their the way they’re hurting and grieving and I think grieving I think grieving and love are really really almost the same thing um certainly twin sisters so

03:35

that’s tomorrow night at 7 o’cl in P at Heritage Hall which is 401 Baldwin Avenue I mean I could go on in terms of what we’re doing but I think I touched on and then we and then in front oh we did some we do something else we run a um we have a doorway into light has a storefront that’s open one day a week every Saturday from 11:00 to 3: and the storefront is called the death store and basically it’s a welcoming place to see what we’re doing and have conversation and uh see how we can support you and uh

04:09

again being a nonprofit we’re not selling we’re in service come by on a Saturday from 11: to 3: on West quaha and come come see what we’re doing we’re actually transforming what a funeral home is and transforming it into what it really ought to be which is community sacred service and not um money not not not about making money well you know I thought that was a very good full introduction thank you you’re so welcome thanks for asking well you know sometimes people see that I

04:45

just get on here and I just start to go and um you have a lot to go well thank you this you know you have good go and uh you you have a you have a message that I’ve always felt was important for the community to hear uh regardless of whether that was one person or 50,000 people I thought you had a you had a message that was one of the voices that want wanted and needed to be heard in this community I mean even Beyond this show you’ve been a voice for the people for as long as I’ve known you which is I

05:16

don’t know 30 something years so isn’t that something you know I B I bow to you so if uh anybody anybody thinks you take up too much airspace that’s fine people can think whatever they think everybody does oh always I’m sorry I’ll tell all right that’s okay I sometimes wonder you know when I do these shows like you said whether it’s one or 50,000 viewers it’s always we’re going to have to give Apple some new sounds right I keep thinking I’ll change it but it doesn’t seem to rise to the top

05:50

of my list but thanks but you’re not just a blow hard here for one thing you have an important message and then you I you it was really big for you to get me to come in you you know you want to bring other voices in and I respect that too sorry that’s all right you can just put them on numb you know yeah I will it’s all right but I’m I’m with you I I do want to bring other voices in I’ve been bringing other voices for you remember for a lot of years now believe it or not I’ve been doing shows for 30

06:26

years now I I believe it and uh it hasn’t been a self-supporting effort it’s been an effort and I and I think that really got me last election season when uh I ran I was in a primary with seven people and out of seven people I came in seventh and I thought well that really is something something I wonder what that says And yet when people talk to me I feel like I have a lot of support from people over these years but it hasn’t translated so I’m actually going through a doorway into light moment myself you

07:13

know at the end of this month I am going to take a break for at least a couple of months I’m having physical surgery and and uh going to see what comes out next for example it’s going to think about I wonder how many how many people know that I can sing well you know I’ve done this thing about this Maui Arts and Music Association to promote art and music and culture and educate people about Environmental Solutions that we can Implement on Maui and be a global example and send people home with more

07:46

than a suntan well I’ve said that for 30 years well after this time um and no what do I say uh I’m I’m not uh really sure I’ve been promoting it and I still think it’s a really appropriate idea when Shep Gordon 30 years ago I don’t know if all you viewers you probably know Shep Gordon right Shep Gordon is uh I think he still is Alice kooper’s manager among other people he’s managed with and um he said to me good idea but it’s he was when he was with Sharon Stone years ago he he’s um

08:30

he said good idea but it’s not my idea good luck with it here we are 30 years later I’ve been bringing it out and it hasn’t gotten people around who want to work at least with me you know uh that could that I imagine that could feel that could feel lonely uh or or that you’re too you you know I know I know I have had that experience for years maybe because I was kind of on the front end of some of the things I was doing and hoping people would jump on board with me and you never know first of all you

09:08

never know what’s happening on so many other levels and I have had so much respect for you because I I I have an awareness of or at least some of the things you’ve been moving and and like you you’ve kind of been holding up what I I picture is like you’re one of the tent poles of the community and that you’ve been holding up a specific temp pole that is a certain let’s say rare or or field of focus and um but but that can be lonely that could be lonely and that’s one part of it and it’s just like

09:38

well what are you going to do this is what you’re supposed to do until you you get told differently that uh by great spirit itself that uh you need a break and you’ve been told you need a break and good for you good and good for you for honoring that that you need that sometimes you come back with more inspiration to do whatever just by changing the pattern yeah well and that’s what that’s and the other side of it is and and this is what I had also learned I’m sorry I about it in there but but you don’t know

10:06

how many people you are touching that you just don’t know about and how how your energetic itself is affecting the whole in the things that you write in the things that you say in the things that you do in the things that you promote you just don’t know how what the you know somebody will come to me and say you know what you said to me three years ago or five years ago and I’m going oh no what did I say and um and I didn’t remember saying it but it was like it had an effect just like you

10:31

smile at the C person in the C in the supermarket or in the market and you smile at that person and you recognize that that’s not just a cashier that’s a fellow human and and that person recognizes that you saw a fellow human and didn’t just see a cashier and then you have an that has an effect on that person usually for the rest of their day at least so you know we we we we don’t realize how much of an effect we do have I had a situation like that happened with you more than once but I was

11:00

talking to Harry Newman you Harry Newman from Philadelphia and he said to me is he still alive yeah he said to me did he get well I’m praying when I get off the show today I’m going to call him I want to know the answer myself I’m gonna write his name down now okay well he’ll get two calls he’ll say why uh when I was speaking to him he said Jason you changed my life I said what did I do you told me about both Cody yeah so I I hear you he’s a wonderful okay I B I bow to that yeah um you know when I look at our

11:42

audience I don’t see our audience because they’re they’re not really showing their faces but like you say they could be out there in many forms I remember getting a call from Pakistan from a a pilot who left our country because he was being played pled he knew by the type of planes that flew into the World Trade Center and all that that those Pilots couldn’t fly that plane there was no way that they could have been flying that plane and 911 Pilots they created this thing it actually had me pulled off the air

12:20

because I aired that show with him on YouTube and they they said well can’t do that I’ve had that happen a couple of times s where uh oh I I pulled up something that I shouldn’t be pulling up you should get an award once you get two of those you should get an award hey you know I sat on that I sat on that side of the desk as you said I had a radio show and when I had a radio show there weren’t even cameras in the room so of course I had absolutely zero idea whether anybody was out there and no way

12:50

to track it right and it didn’t matter to me and and then and I was glad I got to the place it didn’t matter to me I came in here I like doing it and then somebody would say hey I heard you on the radio I’m like what how dare you no not how dare you but somebody out there heard this show I know isn’t that funny I know but then I realized I S of said well you know it isn’t while it’s live that’s so important I I have all these shows hundreds and hundreds of shows through

13:21

the years I’ve done like a thousand shows I remember when uh harmonic convergence and I videotaped the whole process here all that stuff is sitting up there you can see the you know a lot of history I think the live stuff is the most precious stuff like why does that’s one of the reasons I think sports events are so the sporting watching a sporting event because you see it in real time right you can watch the news you know hours later but the but the sports game unless you do want to watch the replay

13:50

or the thing after you can any look up the score anyway it’s like when you’re watching it live nobody knows what the score is at the end of the game so and it’s just like this I don’t know you know it’s not pre-rehearsed um edited or as far as I know but but what I wanted to ask you was in in anticipating that today I was coming on the show did you have any kind of ideas about where you wanted to explore or ask or uh I think the answer is yes I’ve had ideas but the reason

14:23

that I originally thought to have you on the show is I sit back and do a little medit ation and want to see who I want on the show at any time and up you came that’s how you ended up here because um you had written a letter that ended up in the Maui News I think I read I’ve written about 50 letters well this one was about alternative Housing Solutions for the homeless yeah and I’d like to talk a little about that because it’s like after going to homelessness meetings for three four years and

15:01

feeling like what is this and commissions and all kinds of great things I never felt they hit the mark there are a few people I think a lot of people feel exactly what you just said well and so that’s from where my end of the story is we’re building a fund now uh we we first started a fund for lahina families who had family members die in the fire and we raised I I forget what it was $660,000 and spend a good portion of it helping Lina families who’d had somebody Ding and now that we’re not

15:35

being called upon for that we’re moving the the services towards homeless people and now actually we’re actively everybody can donate to that to uh so no homeless people should be cared for when they die here right and um you have any web addresses you’d like to well the doorway into light.org doorway into light l ght way into light.org has a lot of things about what we’re doing and yeah good good good yeah thanks yeah I mean but that whole thing that’s my you wanted to talk about um that because

16:12

that that’s how that letter was more about the homeless than about affordable housing but well about the homeless and the affordable housing may be the biggest issue right now on Maui period I think period yeah and crime that is out of control out there victimizing really a lot of the homeless I sadly know people very close to me that are homeless and that can’t find their way and they’re not poor people and then they’re not drugged out people right they’re just people like us yeah

16:46

that can no longer afford to rent a home for two or three or four or more right yeah I mean and I understand and or can’t even find one well well look at all have the money and can’t even find one isn’t it it’s crazy how long we’ve been talking about this at least 30 years I always wondered about that Jason I didn’t think the people in the government were any any any like I never thought I was smarter than anybody that works in the government and I thought how come these people aren’t doing this stuff

17:18

this is pretty plain Common Sense stuff it was at least 15 years ago maybe more I spoke to Vince bagoyo Vince bagoyo served on uh Council and has been involved in our committee a long time and his Focus was at that time were 8,000 living units short of what we need that was 15 years ago now we’re 8 zillion short and the prices of you know the prices of everything it’s a joke when they say we’re building affordable homes yeah $500,000 AFF Home Affordable home how could hey I wrote a letter to the Maui I

17:58

don’t even think it was the Maui News it might have been the Maui Sun whatever it was 30 or 40 years ago saying hey you know this is a good time to plan for a bypass around macoa and a bypass around uh Pia and some strategic planning about what Kia is going to turn into and that was in the paper and I thought well everybody everybody can see what’s coming and meanwhile here 40 30 40 years later and makaa traffic getting through the one intersection and P is crazy um and and and now difficult to do bypass

18:30

now doable but it’s again it’s money and oh and what it cost now to do any of that stuff you know I remember when they talk about the kii bypass and the Side Road um I forgot who it was oh from Kola 25 million doll a mile what what remember when they wanted to build a highway down from Kula straight to Kei yeah I remember you know these things come and go and we saw the last I say we saw the last of a Maui that isn’t here anymore and that was for me it was in the 70s I didn’t know it at

19:05

the time but now in looking back that was a Maui that was pretty I saw the end of a Maui that’s pretty much gone not that Maui isn’t still absolutely amazing and precious and so beautiful and so untouched in so many ways and the man is still so strong and the love is still so strong and the Aloha and but it’s a different Maui now and and and has changed as you’ve seen a number of times like you know the dot thing and then the co covid thing and then people could live and work anywhere and it’s changed what it means

19:37

to promote now social media has changed the whole did you see in the news today Jason that the Surgeon General of United States said there needs to be a warning label on all social media apps just like cigarettes I thought that’s brilliant and uh hope hopefully it’s not too late uh you know the amount of depression and and boredom you you know and Etc how many teens are taking meds because they can’t handle normal life yeah it’s ET Etc yeah is it’s crazy and I hope there’s not an ad there that says you

20:11

can get rid of that label on your page click here you know you’ve seen the world don’t make me cry now well you know you are I don’t know how to say it I do know how to say it you’re a great guy and you know as I’m coming to think about the last numbers of years there have been outspoken people over the years but you I’ve somehow gotten identified as media host and people don’t really see any other aspects of me and so I think that’s my main thinking to pull out of

20:53

here so maybe not that they’ll forget that I do media host but maybe they’ll see me do doing other things and realize that there’s value here in some of the things I’ve been saying join the improv group right perform at the E you know do would do whatever your heart calls you to do you know I I meet people because people come to me and they say um I want to be a death Midwife I want to be a death Doula and um I’m uh and a lot of these people um and and you know lots of these people they got on the road to

21:26

success at a young age because the def of success was finish school get a great job keep going up the ladder have lots of money you know you know and uh a lot of people got on that track a lot of people are still on that track but a lot of people we know got on that track and then they realized somewhere down the road as they got older that um that wasn’t real success a and in fact they had to cut off parts of themselves to fit the model of becoming that particular success and those parts were

21:56

like the the artistic part the creative part the imaginative part the Musical part the playful part the right all of that and then you and then you and I meet people that are reaiming those things and saying well now I’m coming back to recognizing that I want to do my art for example like I hear people say that and the same with the the the death the people that want to be death duelist are often coming out of something okay I’m really done with that this is what I’m called to do now not as some career

22:23

thing but as as this service I can um contrib and feel I could be good at it you know um so you’re never too old actually to reclaim that stuff either and and so many of us had to reclaim stuff because of the conditioning and the and the programming in terms of what the American dream was going to look like blahy blah yeah it’s the blahy blah part it’s the bloody blah you know uh I um sit here you know when I speak to you I I feel like I’m speaking to to you know a not a miror but someone who shares so

23:03

many of the ideas and thoughts that I have where has the world why haven’t they picked up these things what exactly do you feel is going on God who knows there’s so much momentum in the broken Story and there’s so many people invested it I mean imagine how many people right now would stop working because they don’t like their job if they didn’t have mortgage payments and school payments and kids payments and medical payments how many people would just stop tomorrow right A lot of them

23:30

every most everybody probably would right and that and so everybody’s caught in that well I don’t I don’t believe in what I’m doing but I can’t stop doing it I’m locked and we all are in a sense um and that’s that’s where the problem is you know I I learned something really fascinating you know I was talking to people about carbon footprint because people told me they wanted to be cremated and I said um you know this that’s a large carbon footprint uh first of all there a lot of energy required to

23:56

burn you and two there’s gases and heavy metals that go up into the air um it’s not the best way to go I know it’s the cheapest financially but it’s not environmentally if that’s what you want your last footprint to be then and that’s what I said for years then I find out that uh BP the large the largest or the second largest G oil and gas company in the world their marketing department made up the notion that there was such a thing as carbon footprint and if you think about that

24:29

that was one of the most brilliant things if not the most brilliant things the marketing department of BP could have come up with was the idea of a carbon footprint which is why the whole thing the whole Spotlight got put on us and we feel guilty when we throw away a toothbrush or use too much water or whatever it is that you know and we’re all we’re all carbon footprint conscious and you can donate to a carbon offset and actually uh the focus in Spotlight really is on BP and all of those blah

24:57

blahs where the real problem is that’s that that makes the whole system be the way it is where we’re forced into throwing away a toothbrush or whatever it is right so that Spotlight got turned on us so we could feel guilty that we’re not recycling enough when in fact the spotlight needs to be directly on BP and the companies that are killing the world and that so so many of us are crying about and we’re talking about what what what our children and grandchildren and their children and and all the rest of

25:26

creation are are needing are are going to have to live with as maybe it gets worse before if it gets better BP right I mean so that itself shifted it for me like I’m not I’m not going to make such a big deal about carbon footprint and I’m not going to feel guilty for getting on an airplane because that’s not the where the focus needs to be but of course that’s been the the powers that be always want to put it on us and have us fight with each other of course right that’s a whole

25:55

other conversation oh yeah well but it’s just it’s back into the same Loop and to me the thing that about all that you’re saying is after a while all these conversations revolve around just a different a different kind of pattern that our world needs to be growing into an awareness of Oneness that is uh surely not coming out this election season uh well as long as I’ve been voting as and I’ve been voting I mean I’m in my 70s as long as I’ve been voting the economy always wins out over

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the environment or the culture or the people um that’s never not been the case um yeah yeah I mean economy wins and here we are again I I wonder where we’re going to go this oh but then okay so then what’s the what’s the story in terms of uh we keep hoping it’s going to be get get better but at the same time we’re grieving that maybe it’s not going to get better and so we swing between and this is what dying people often do and their caregivers often do is they swing

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between hope and hopeless and there’s a sense of uh well of course you know I can go on and on about this basically we think we’re flawed and uh we we sinned and now we’re going to die and now we screwed up the whole thing and there’s some and of course in the west there’s something wrong with us we’re not good enough and um of course it’s all nonsense it’s all crap and but but it’s kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy that we’re not good enough we’re going to

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ruin the whole thing and sure enough that’s what it looks like is happening we’re not only ruining it for future humans but we’re ruining it for future everything and the Earth Will Survive us and plants will come back and you know life will go on but maybe maybe maybe it’s maybe close to being real that right now we’re W witnessing some of the last generations of humans and can we not turn away from that into whatever we do I mean a lot of aren’t we all turning away at some point it’s just too intense

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so much is at stake right now everything’s in the balance and and the national election is only one example of how everything you can see it around the world it’s all the wheels are coming off it looks like and not to mention the what’s happening with the climate and um that’s why I have a grief ritual tomorrow night because uh so many of us are feeling it because so many of us are deep feeling people that don’t want to turn away all the time into Facebook and sex and food and drugs and alcohol alol

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and uh you name it uh what you name it the phone is the the phone now is the allpurpose forever instant entertainment and dulling and soothing and drugging experience um there it is right in front of you my my friend made a joke when they were taking down all those Confederate um statues and she said oh yeah the next statue they’re going to put up is going to look like this I mean that’s what you know that’s kind of what um life in the west and um of course we’re going to [ __ ] it up

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because sorry we’re um there’s something wrong with us and you what’s wrong with us humans anyway why we can’t why can’t we all live in peace well maybe that’s not the story that’s going to happen on this planet maybe this is the school of how to at least tolerate and live with each other you don’t have to love everybody uh but at least get along with everybody and share the resources and and and and honor and respect the rest of the living life on this planet um

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maybe that you know that you know that’s our vision of like peace on Earth we all get along um that may just not be the story here um I don’t know I don’t know that part but I know I know what I experience you know in the n in 1970 before there was anything called Earth Day or even the environmental movement um I looked around and that was right when I was I was I could have gotten drafted to go to Vietnam and my dad had suddenly died and I was starting to take some psychedelics and I looked around

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and I was like oh my God I’m I got to get off this train that’s um that train of success thing uh I got to get off this train and then I thought if this keeps going on in another 30 or 40 or 50 years it’s going to look like like it does Today Jason right many of us saw that a long time ago it’s just like you said how come the government doesn’t get it how come your me you know it’s like you know we’re not all we’re we’re all created equal in one sense and also

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we’re not all equal in a in another other sense and then um you know I think there ought to be two different countries really the red the red Maga State can be their own country and have a king and only have white people and no gay people and all the women stay home and whatever that story is I’m good with that I think they should just have their own country and everybody that was living to was willing to live with black and yellow and gay and and Natives and and all on and on and on could have

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their own country and then you know you know some people want to live in the country where you can’t ever have an abortion I’m actually I’m actually choose teaching um starting to teach a class called choosing to end one’s life which is on a completely similar but different subject because it’s a very hot topic for a lot of people especially older people in terms of uh dying doesn’t look good to me I don’t want to be etc etc I want to have a way out and and I teach about that very subject of

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how we got here and what that’s really about in the bigger sense but isn’t that the biggest story that’s playing out in America right now A Woman’s right to end a life you know and so they’re going to fight about now whether a Life Starts as soon as the egg meets a sperm great I’m I think there’s nothing but life and death going on every single moment everywhere everything we eat comes from plants that ate dead stuff there has to be death and you know as you know I can

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go on and on about that in fact that’s the part when you said people think of you as the media host and kind of that’s who they see Jason Schwarz is right and um so me I have a lot of different hats and people see me through uh but but the tent pole that I I said maybe you’re holding up that tent pole for that piece of your voice and the tent pole that I feel that I’m holding up is the tent pole that death is present in the community right simple as that that because we want to ignore it avoid it be

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an aversion to it deny it and Grandma kicked the bucket if you read the obituaries in the Maui news that nobody dies everybody passes away or something right uh the dog died the car died oh my God the phone died a grandma passes away so that’s the tent pole I’m kind of I mean heck I have a store in haou called the death store so you know that’s my tent pole and um but I’m good with it you know I’m good you know I don’t allow myself as best I can to not get caught in what the box other people might put

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me in it’s funny in my funeral home I have a sign that says think Inside the Box I didn’t see that song think Inside the Box do you do you have uh handles inside to to be able to get out no uh uh I’m not going to talk about that now on the radio no yeah no yeah this handles to get out yeah this yeah well you know I uh can’t help but just like I said I could give the microphone to you I’m happy to be sitting here and listening to you spouse in fact like I say people have said to

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me you cut people off sometime you putting out your thing I like when I listen to you because I I hear things coming out that make sense and are progressive and gives me a chance to rest it’s like when I see someone doing something good I’m very happy about that because it means I don’t have to do it all I wish more people would join us on this homelessness thing and house whatever I sing praises to what Lisa Darcy’s been doing amazing absolutely I know you know Lisa Darcy’s been on this

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show she now she’s got a another new nonprofit going on she’s been a real Champion all these years I know we let’s go back a minute will you tell me what we were just talking about before that what we were talking about before we talking about homeless oh never mind well you know don’t matter now well it all it all matters if it’s important it’ll come back right you say it’s live comes it goes but I just um I I want to say I’m tired I’m just tired of this at the moment you know I hear

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talk I hear that and talk I hear that it doesn’t seem to get the the the legs under it and the world is going like this yeah yeah yeah well that’s that’s disappointment uh loneliness sometimes those are all um actually aspects of grieving you know we see what it could be and it’s not rocket science we see what it could be and we do and and and there’s a lot of Visionaries on Maui an overabundance maybe of Visionaries who do see it and um what do you do about it you know you know Joanna Macy who’s a

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brilliant um philosopher um theor what does she study system analyst list she said we’re in the middle of the great turning actually she said that years ago we’re in the great turning and of course many of us see that um it’s not working the world’s not working well and she said there’s three um responses maybe you know this this she identifies three responses in recognizing the great turning is happening one as you get out in front of those trains that are um driving radioactive material to take to

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another state or you Occupy Wall Street or you protest what’s happening in Palestine the people that are out there uh right now trying to change the story by actively getting in front of what’s broken and demanding a change right so that’s one response the other response is all the new all the what is the healing story and that’s alternative education and that’s organic sustainable regenerative farming and that’s everybody being uh welcome at the table to have their voice and it’s you know

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it’s all it’s all of it it’s it’s it’s all of the ways people are becoming more conscious about how to live on the land and how to be and how important Community is and and what and all of that so that’s the second response the people that are out there making those schools and building those communities and growing those U beautiful food right the farmers market is a great um you know and then Al so that’s the second one you be part of the new story that’s going to replace the broken one and the

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third response is the transformation of human consciousness itself in other words how do we change what people think and because what people think affects what they do every day and the choices that they make it doesn’t matter if we’re all driving around in uh solar powerered cars if we’re still angry and pissing off and getting you know fighting with each other and in fact who’d have thought 50 years ago that that 50 years later people would still be killing each other with guns and

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bombs and missiles and drones and unheard of right I didn’t see any of that until I saw some kids video game or something and probably that’s where you learn it so then killing becomes completely on ners not personal you press a button it’s like a video game and no that’s craziness but now I don’t know where I went with that whole thing no you went exactly way you wanted to oh so what do you do the third response human consciousness which which you kind of which is like um helping people come out of the what I

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call the cultural hypnotic Sleepwalk that in fact the culture prefers you stay in and keep buying stuff and and don’t pay attention to what’s happening uh behind the curtains right and so the transformation of Consciousness is how do you shake people out of uh that we all fall into that uh kind of default uh mode all right it’s the cultural mode we all fall into it at times so how do we shake people out of that so they do they then you know then they change their lives and so amazingly and of course

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I’ve been a minister for 40 something years and what is Ministry but to help people to help people and what’s the Supreme level of helping people will be after they’re fed and they have a place to get out of the rain then it’s about spiritual connection to God um you know you know there’s two there’s two wounds in in my in what I see is there’s two basic W wounds the primary wound that we all have is our disconnect from God or or the holy I’ll call it the holy because

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it’s not somebody up in the sky I I call it the great mystery or the um sometimes I just call it love but our disconnect from that first of all that’s lonely right there that’s separation that’s abandonment that’s all kinds of things and then the secondary wound is I’m not good enough right and variations of that is nobody listens to me nobody pays attention to me and sometimes the loudest person in the room has the wound of nobody listen to me when that person was a kid and doy Lama commented on it

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when he came here how can these people basically he said how can these people be so rich and have so little self-esteem right because you know that whether you believe it or not that we sinned whether you believe that origin story how many people do I hear say when they got sick they feel like they did something wrong or they got punished or when they’re dying they got they’re being punished uh even if you don’t believe that origin story it’s amazing how many people have that very um

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thought when they get sick or or dying right and of course how I’ve see so many of them because this is what I do in the world I see it and I’m around it how many people want to be forgiven and they want God to forgive them and these are not murderers these are people just like us but something about them that there’s is so much see that’s what I think is no judgment day but there is self-judgment day and it may go on for more than a day because of how hard we are on ourselves and you know on you know on and on and

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on I covered a lot of ground there you did now speaking of that coming that’s why I like teaching about death that’s what it comes back to Jason and by the way whoever says that you cut off people and blahy blahy blah I’ve been cutting you off a lot of the show and we’re just in a flow here and and and I’m enjoying okay good but that’s how that’s part of when I said the ministry led me into work with dying people but also the recognition that D that becoming having death awareness shakes us into a more

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full alive life it’s like when you get a phone call that your best friend just died something happens to you and it happens to just about everybody it cuts out the crap it brings you right into the moment and the rawness and the fragility and the preciousness of the moment moment well we know that’s a spiritual experience shaking us out of the yeah yeah yeah I got time yeah yeah um yeah you’re watching the clock now no I’m we got I’m good minutes we’re good I’m just uh okay like this as you’re

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talking I’m thinking I should probably open the door for you to talk about your new church is it call Church yeah yeah it’s it’s the first Congregation of doorway into light and doorway into lights are are currently our educational and charitable nonprofit and in doing the work that we’re doing it became clear to us that it’s Ministry and all of us are ministers now there’s five of us who run the whole nonprofit and the funeral home we’re all ordained ministers and we recognize it as

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Ministry and we and we’ve been certifying people who go through our course to be certified death duelas and then and then we found out that some people wanted to be ordained Rec also recognizing that that work is Ministry and and I and and honestly to me death Doula is Ministry work pure and simple it doesn’t mean doesn’t mean you can’t ask for a payment or some kind of exchange but it’s at the core it’s ministry right and then we thought well well let’s become an official um minist

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ministry that’s what we’re doing here anyway in fact every Saturday we have an open house and it it is kind of ministry but we don’t talk about any you know anything people I don’t I don’t I don’t preach about God or anything like that so then we thought let’s become a real thing and then and then it became clear that at least for now it’s the first Congregation of doorway into light and and we we met actually the very first meeting which was I don’t know two

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months ago we meet every Saturday at nine o’ at at the Baldwin Beach Pavilion now but the very first one we did two months ago we did inside the funeral home in the room where we wash bodies and prepare bodies for burial or ocean burial and it’s the same room that families have come in and washed and dressed their loved ones and that’s where we started the church the very first and and we packed it it was full of people crowded in there and that was the beginning of the first Congregation

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of doorway into light and then it got and then we started going well let’s try doing it at the beach so it’s like beach church and that’s I think that’s where I think that’s where its home is for now so every Saturday on Maui at 9:00 at The Pavilion at Balwin Beach Park H thanks for asking about that I thought that was very powerful and important was beautiful it’s a small group of us and um again it’s the same thing it doesn’t matter how many people come it’s the same thing

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right it doesn’t matter who’s listening you know God you know it’s like you know I know you’re inspired by something that kind of has moved you to do all the things and offer the things and give so much of your life in terms of time of your life towards something that was bigger than you the the rest is the rest a lot of people can’t get beyond the you being me and my kids and wife and cars that’s a lot and so and so I have tremendous respect for how much because what do we

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have you know people say how you doing bod I say I’m having the time of my life and they look at me like that’s cool and then I look at them and I say everybody’s having the time of their life that’s exactly what we’re having that is what we have and and so then I have tremendous respect uh for someone who has given so much of the time of their life to putting out something that was about goodness and beauty and healing and Reconciliation and Truth to power and so yeah you know you’ve been

44:39

reading my mail I know thank you so I’ll take it personally and and I want to come back just to reassert reaffirm here you have no idea how what how much your effect has on any and everybody whether you get any feedback about it or not and of course that’s about faith and you know what and and in that sense faith is about confidence that what you’re doing is important and you believe in it in fact not only you believe in it you have passion around it and that’s what you’re supposed to do and now you’re supposed

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to take a break from it and take some distance from it and I and and that’s That’s essential That’s essential otherwise you get tired and you burn out like well yeah and and that’s what’s happening a lot of people are getting tired and burning out but it’s time for a transition to another right on aspect join the circus run off with a circus um yeah I think might be I can picture that I for you I can picture that thank you I’m just looking at the clock so I know where we’re at what kind of things

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do you I’d say what do you want to talk about you are I’m giving you an open mic I have a beautiful wife we’re almost married 40 years this year she’s still likes me we have a really good time together we have a beautiful organic Homestead in Haiku and uh some of our kidss and grandkids live really close by uh we have a garden that I can still see under the weeds um I hear the sound of running streams uh you know I wake up to birds and streams and uh I love I love my I love my life here on Maui now I’ve been

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here almost 50 years now I love being here you know I’m here for the rest of my life uh I love the I love the work that I’m doing that I give so much of the time of my life to uh in terms of you know if I can help one family um I’m good and we’re helping way more than one family and but it’s it’s just it’s Ministry so um we’re we’re not dependent on it that’s the none of us are dependent on it that we have to make money it has to be our main income and that’s fortunate because there’s no

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pressure to sell anything and we’re just we just we’re all we’re either hospice volunteers or we’re ministers or there’s a CNA uh works with hospice on our team we have a nurse on our team uh counselors grief support people and we’re just a community big community resource that will help you uh when you find out you’re dying when you find out someone else is dying when you care for someone who just died um a lot of people don’t even know we’re we’re the third or

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fourth funeral home here on Maui that have been here being a funeral home since 2012 uh and we’ve helped a lot of people now and um I’m so grateful really yeah and uh I was going to say I’m happy to say I’ve seen friends come through uh your you bet that’s hard but yes starting to starting to pick up friends from the wherever the home or the morg or the yeah yeah very very big very big yeah and of course when your friends start dying your own mortality gets more real to you to uh many of us who know

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that we’ve lived most of our life we’re on the back end right we’ve already lived most of her life almost a half right and maybe not may you know I I think I’ve lived way more than half my life and and I we were about that same age I was my father died and I was at that spot of you know Vietnam or not times that was a big time that was a big time right a lot changed for a lot of people right in that whole you know there was that thought that the world is going to change by what we’re doing and

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that we’re going to lead that charge and uh so many of our uh what do they say people of our age had a big choice we had the grand ideas and then they get trapped into this thing that just is biger mortgages and um bills and having to buy food did you ever read the book Ishmael no Ishmael I forget what look it up Ishmael the I can’t remember the guy who wrote it oh Daniel Quinn Daniel Quinn he won the first time that Ted Turner who started CNN he offered a million dollars for the best environmental book that

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year and Ishmael won the book One One the book and and and and he says one of the big problems maybe one of the main problems started when they locked up the food and if you think about it that’s it I mean there’s others when they when they when all of a sudden God wasn’t here anymore God was up in the sky somewhere that you could call that another one of those moments but when they locked up the food and the food wasn’t free like it had always been forever everything had had to change and

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so aot you know of course everybody in One Way or Another is on the treadmill of um eating let’s say um and supposedly I don’t know supposedly guys like Steve jobes and those guys they were there with us taking drugs and um saw saw what could be and and and I hear some of the people that make sitcoms and in TV shows and sometimes you see it in the movies right oh somebody was somebody was Consciousness I get what that what the message was there right and so it’s out there but of course um what they say the

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swing is it keeps getting Progressive and then it goes back regressive but uh the the basic thing is it’s always progressing I don’t know I don’t know it doesn’t it’s not looking good you know and you think about that black people in this country are still it’s the same as it was it’s still Plantation days and um and where they don’t feel safe on the streets anywhere um in fact most people I mean when you grew up uh my mom would just say go out and play and that and

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come back for dinner and that was it and now of course uh nobody feels safe we’re right no and and and that’s not you know a sign of real richness and wealth is that people feel safe and cared for and cared about and don’t feel alone that’s real richness you know and we don’t and we have way less security way less than we did um when you know when you and me were kids yeah the the world is really and I say it’s different I wonder what people were saying a hundred years ago were they saying that

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same story probably yeah my parents didn’t like my rock and roll that was a sign of we were doomed back then who but there was never so many people on the planet taxing the resources of the planet to the degree that it is now there never there were never so many starving hungry people and you know I I have remember when I started this Maui Arts and Music Association guy with me John scarino from the music business we had ideas of rekindling a We Are the World sentiment and doing it here and and then he found

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out about all these things going on in the world and was trying to share them and after desperation of trying to share them he left and went to Montana to be with his mother and get over this whole life that it is and what it is so uh I don’t know I don’t know you I that reminds me of a different version of that story that apparently this guy who was putting out a a very well- read publication about this things we’re talking about about Consciousness and I think it was particularly in the

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environmental political Environmental year uh did you see that movie that was just out for a few days about John Robbins yeah that he didn’t want to be Mr Baskin and Robin but did you watch the whole movie through I haven’t seen it it’s brilliant and a lot of it is about his relationship with his dad and the time in the world of what was happening oh but yeah yeah that was a gigantic move good move but again is he Mak he’s making a difference in my life making a difference in your life you

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know what everything you every choice you make makes a difference in the world right every dollar you spend empowers or disempowers a company you know if we want some company to stop making hula hoops if everybody just needs to stop buying hula hoops and that business will go out of business don’t mind me looking up here I’m trying to see if we have three minutes and 16 seconds or eight minutes I think it’s three minutes looks like three to me yeah you know it’s just like coming back to the difference you make

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in a in Supermarket when you smile at that person and you see another human and and they see recognized as not as a human right and they pass it on and that I mean to me it’s it’s all ground floor stuff it’s like this this circle of Circle of concern right we have a lot of things in the circle of concern that we we feel a bit helpless about or uh it’s too big you know a lot of young especially young people that just go what’s the point it’s too big it’s and we can’t do much about it but those

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things we can usually pray about we can grieve about and we can and I think that’s important to grieve about it and we can send money to organizations that want to change that that story we can’t touch right excuse me and then there’s the circle of influence right I just describe the circle of concern so then there’s the circle of influence and these are the things you have an effect on every single day of your life every thought you have every interaction you have with another person every dollar you spend we

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have a way to affect what’s in our world and that’s I tend to spend most of my time in that world ground feet on the ground uh you know my my my guiding question in fact it’s become the guiding question of our organization is what does love look like now and I think that’s the most powerful thing you can bring to a dying person or a healthy person or anybody it’s like I’m I’m sitting in front of you the truth is I don’t know if I’ll ever see you again and when I recognize that

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that’s true then of course I want to bring my whole self to it and what do I want to bring in my whole self to this exchange is this is is love really which is the most powerful exchange there is and the most healing thing there is and the rest is the rest right the rest of the details of how we make it in a world where sometimes it hurts and sometimes it feels great the reason I’m stopping is because I want to be ending the show I get it I get it I get I um I’ve appreciated you’ve given me a chance to

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rest and hear a reflection bod you’re a wonderful guy I hope that our community will check out doorway into light.org and see the the beauty and uh join in this quest of Oneness you’re nothing less than u a wonderful guy I appreciate you so much appr should my kids though if you thank you I first of all thank you I I receive that and um I I appreciate that thank you you’re very welcome I hope all of you will join us again Maui neutral zone.com you can see this show and many many many other shows it’s been

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a pleasure uh bod thank you for being here everyone take care we will see you next week Aloha thank you my friend welcome

DEATH : Bodhi Be and the Death Store – ARISE !

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