DON COUCH, present Maui Councilman, Kihei seat with Jason Schwartz 7-29-14

Aloha. I’m Jason Schwartz. I’m not running for anything. This gentleman is our Councilman, Don Couch, representative of South Maui, South Maui district. But he represents all of you, everybody. everybody and you all vote. Remember that. So, South Maui doesn’t mean you don’t vote. It means you do vote. Everybody from Maui County votes for all the council members. And I only repeat it every time because it’s unbelievable how many blanks happen. And until we find another way, that’s what we got.

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How are you? Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You’re welcome. You know, I’m an outside the box guy. You’ve known me. In fact, you were my uh my teacher over at Akaku way back when. And I didn’t teach him how to do all this. The re, you know, technology, the smaller the camera gets, people don’t think you got to have a big camera to get respect. But we can do higher quality. This is amazing what you can do. Higher quality. The sound is good. I had a problem with the mechanism on the

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camera. He said, “Oh, why don’t you just use your iPhone?” Mhm. So, that’s what we’ve been doing. We’ve been, you know, we still do the whatever editing, but we don’t edit cuz, you know, we have people like Don, you know, we’re not really mincing our words and being careful cuz you’re a truthful guy. You’ve been in in this thing for a long time. When did you first start in your political and Well, you know, I didn’t start to be in political. I was doing a copy stuff for

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a long time and ended up uh essentially doing what you’re doing, interviewing. We we would do a t a live TV show. I think you worked on it a couple times. Yeah. Um called Opinions Maui and we would uh interview people about issues happening around Maui. We did it for a number of years and then we um the next set of elections came up in 1998. Uh and we said well why don’t we interview all the candidates and live on live TV and people can call in. So we did that. Um and we did every race that

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was up in 1998. Uh except for the governor’s race I think. Um we had the governor Kayano on it but we didn’t get uh Governor Ling or Mayor Lingal at the time and uh we started doing interviews and just got to know all the people and got to know the issues and further from that I got uh involved in the um board of ethics. got to learn how to conduct meetings and about the sunshine law and about county rules and regulations and ethics and I was the chair of the board of ethics for two years and um we did some uh really

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interesting work and that was my first even um foray because somebody had known me from the opinions Maui show somebody from the mayor’s office and I got appointed to the board of ethics for four years and at at the end of that time somebody asked me to run for office saying would you be interested I said well I’ll try so I did and got a good lesson on how to campaign and how not to campaign uh and I I lost but at that same time Alan Kawa had won for mayor and I’d met him through campaign experience

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and so he asked me to to join his staff. And you know, I’m an IT guy. I I do IT and and video internet technology. No, information technology. Excuse me. See what I know. I was programming computers at the time and then now networks and it it morphed into the internet and whatnot, but that’s what I’ve been doing forever and and video production. So I said, “Well, okay. You know, I don’t know anything about government other than what I know from the board of ethics and kind of how things work in in

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meetings and stuff.” So I uh I went and worked for the mayor representing South and West Maui. You know, any any issue that came up in South and West Maui, I would take the call for the mayor and then work with whatever department. um sort of a liaison between the mayor and the mayor and the constituent to get something done. Right. Exactly. So we would I mean everybody has issues. They’re all over. So I learned about all the departments and what their functions were and and how they worked and you

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know how how county government really worked from an administrative side. And so um at that time we were trying to get the Kihei High School here. Uh we had a great plan. Um we started to work on the plan and um it didn’t it fell through because the at that time the uh South Maui Council uh woman did not like the developer that we chose to uh to do this. And uh so that that went away and that kind of bothered me a little bit cuz that it was one of those things where this the guy did come school same

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way we were going to do the same thing just council had to approve the land the land deal. Yeah. And because as now I’m on council I I realize that the other members don’t know the area the other areas as well as they would like to. So they rely on the u the arish rep and when she said she didn’t want that they just said okay no then we’re not going to do it. I see. So that that was one tick and then the other thing was the uh one main plaza purchase um while we were working trying

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to we were renting space at one main plaza and we needed more space for the county. So we said well why don’t we we had an offer to buy it but not to land underneath it. Uh and there were some things that had to be done uh to fix it up and it was all engineered. It was all done ready to go and there was a four to four situation and the fifth person again was the same council member who didn’t even talk to the mayor. So um after that went down in flames um I said you know that’s not right.

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that is just not right. Uh so I this was in around 2006 I had run the second time um for state senate and lost again. So you know after the um the mayor’s race in 2006 uh decided I was going to help Allan try and get reelected. That didn’t work. So I went into the private sector again as an IT manager at a at a CPA firm. Right. And um at the same time it was just in the back of my head that you know what I should try for counsel and because I don’t like what happened. Um I thought you know I I’ve see I’ve

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been in as sitting at the administration in council chambers so I know kind of the process there as well. So I thought I’d run for council and my intent was to run against the incumbent at the time. Well, at the last minute, I mean, the last week before filing deadline, it turns out that the incumbent decided not to run and um Wayne came in and tried to win. So, I ran against him and I lost and I said, “Okay, well, that was enough.” Three times. I did that, too? Yeah. Three times. And uh, you know, all

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right. I got the I got the message. But then the whole issue uh you know financial disclosure issue came up and so I said all right I’ll try one more time and I ended up winning so you know and you go in there and you even from the experience that I had working at the administration and sitting in the chambers and also I for au I videotaped a lot of the meetings. Sure. So I uh was able to kind of get an idea of how the meetings flowed and everything and what they did and and the the work that was done at council. But

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the minute I sat down in that chair, it was it was it hit me like, wow, this isn’t this is a really heavy burden. You got to make sure you do the right decisions. You you’re not going to please everybody. So you have to think what’s best for the community. And it’s not just sitting in these chairs. It’s it’s a lot of work. I we had a uh within two meetings we had a a 2011h a affordable housing fasttrack project come up in Kihei. And it was a situation where we were already short of

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affordable housing. It was in a not so well accessible area. you know, was up in Kaiwahini and and so there was some issues as traffic and so we kind of tried to mitigate as much as possible and it came down to a 54 vote and you know when it when when we did the roll call I’m still trying to think which way do I want to go and it finally said you know we have a very big shortage of affordable housing. Yes, there’s some traffic issues and maybe, you know, some of the conditions we put on there would

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mitigate them. So, I ultimately voted for the project. Um, nothing’s happened yet. And that and one of the things that we were able to put on it is a condition of if you don’t do anything within 5 years. We’re going to revisit this and we’ll probably resend your your entitlements, right? Fast track. So yeah, we we wanted to do it and if you aren’t going to do it in 5 years and you’re not going to sit there forever and we need it now. You want to wait. Sorry, not so that that 5 years is

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coming up next year. Uh whoever is in the seat next at the end of halfway through the term next term uh at the end of 2015 and essentially those five years are up. So uh then we have to decide what to do with that. You say affordable housing. Um that was within Yeah. Well, that that was within three day, you know, 3 weeks of being on the council. It was It hit me. It’s like boom. And yes, affordable housing. We worked on um when I was working for the mayor, we uh worked on several projects to get

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affordable housing. We had uh Waboo Gardens. We worked through the process, got that through the 2011 process. Um, so we got 210 affordable houses and another 210 um below market value houses because the the developer put on What do you mean by affordable? I mean that’s always a common thing to talk about. Yeah, there there is a there is a little question on what affordable is. The HUD uh the Federal Housing and Urban Development uh corporation sets um basically the what is the average uh salary for an area. Okay. So, a salary

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of uh the median salary. Sorry, not average, but okay. Uh the median salary of an area and they say if you’re at 100% of the median salary, this is the price of a house you can afford. But they take into account interest rates and what you have to put down and what your your family size is and what your bills are. So, they they set the price. Um, unfortunately it’s fairly high here because the median uh wage is up fairly high for a family employed and a lot of times it’s because people have multiple

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jobs. I was just going to say how off is that? Well, and the median means that there’s as many people above as there is below. Not average. No, my only is I was just commenting about the obvious people are working two jobs like dogs and we use that against them by declaring that because it’s a federal it’s a federal requirement. That’s how we used to say you got to revisit that one. So, you know, we we this project we said you got to start at 80% of the median and work to and then you sell enough houses at

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that and then 100% 120 140%. So, those are what were affordable houses um in that area. So, you could have gotten a I think threebedroom, two bath home, one story on a 5,000 square foot lot for about 100. It’s 210, which is reasonable. That’s reasonable. I mean, it’s fairly reasonable. Now, why this is Wuka behind the post office that area? No, this is uh Wapoo Wapoo Gardens. Okay. Okay. Um off Wo Road and Wal. Okay. So those sold just like that. I mean people there was a big long list

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and and they sold. So all the affordables got sold. Um my my current concern with affordable housing legislation is that um there’s a workforce housing bill that says that look, Mr. Developer, if you’re going to build a a um a project, uh 50% of the houses have to be affordable. That sounds good. The problem is is that uh to make the dollar amounts for the houses pencil out so we could make a little bit of money anyway, you really have to sell the market rate houses at a really high price. So we’re

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working with the workforce housing bill right now to say parts of the bill that are really good is that if you’re going to build your affordable housing, you have to build it at the same time or prior to a market house. So it’s a it’s a one for one. So you get into real detail here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We get into real detail and I and I’m No, no, but I mean this is a really good thing for the public to know, right? You know, you started from scratch and you learned a lot and you still you still needed to

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learn a lot. We’re still learning. You know, everyone when someone runs for council, me included, you know, you all think you’re going to jump in the seat and there you go. You’re just And usually it’s it’s one or maybe two issues that that you uh you’re very passionate about. Yeah. I used to say it’s excuse me it’s sometimes you don’t remember that your original intention was to drain the swamp when you’re up to your ass alligator because you get in there with great things and then there’s

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this huge amount of what is going on right you know I don’t even know what to say and you’re expected to be an expert in every one of those things just like that right Alan Arakawa’s eyes I remember when he got bloodshot when he first was on council he said you know I don’t think he slept Exactly. Yeah. You you had that same experience. You seem very comfortable and confident. The issues that are coming up are getting more and more exciting like oh the uh I want to say the untouchable. This GMO thing I’m only

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guessing and I’m before other council people have told me they really want the public to vote because it is such a hot issue. But it’s setting up a condition here that is um I’m seeing people lining up with such an amosity. Yeah, it’s it’s something new. And that’s what I um you know, I I talked about this on the floor. I said, you know, it used to be that everybody sat down and talked and figured it out from from here. That’s what they would do. That’s this the island style. You

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sit down ho ponop pono and talk it out and figure it out and come up to a solution. Now it’s just like throwing nasty. I mean, if you look at Facebook, there’s some nasty comments on on both sides. It’s it’s not on, you know, on one side or the other, on both sides. And it’s it’s just not the way it should be done. And that’s what’s happening in the federal level. And it’s happening in the federal level because it used to be that the the the congressmen and the

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senators stayed in Washington DC until a recess period. Excuse me, my voice is going away. That’s why I’m chewing the gum. So, maybe we should get some water. All right. Well, we take a break. All right. Thank you. You’re welcome. You know, I was talking about the federal government. Um I remembered where we left off, even though it’s been a little bit of time. Set that there. Good. Um the senators and the congressmen used to hang together through the whole session until recess and they would go

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to their districts. Now, with the airline travel being so cheap and whatnot, relatively and frequent, they go they leave Washington DC every Thursday night and go home and then they come back Monday morning. So, now that they’re not spending time getting to know people, I mean, they’re they’re they’re just button heads cuz they don’t know you from Adam other than this is my idea and this is the way I’m going to be, right? And you know some of the old-timers and I spoke to Senator Noi just you know

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about eight months before he died and he said it’s just unreal how different it is now compared to the way it used to be and it’s just so now it’s ideological instead of your wife and my wife are they they go together you know they do attend things together the kids attend school together so we may have philosophy ical difference on the floor. I do with some of the members on the floor at the council, but when we’re out to lunch or we’re to a conference or something, we’re able, you know, we get along very

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well. That’s good. Yeah. So, it’s different from when you’re on the floor and you have to discuss something as opposed to uh you know, just chatting amongst friends. So, bringing that down to this level, it’s getting that way here on certain items, including this GMO thing. The GMO thing, um, we got the bill and we got a situation where if we as council members were to introduce that bill, our corporation council says, I we couldn’t do it because it’s just not a valid legal bill. It goes against

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the charter and there are a couple of things in there that that just make it illegal, something that they couldn’t approve. So, we couldn’t legally pass it out if we wanted to make it a law because it it was flawed. Was that explained? I’m curious cuz I That was explained on the floor a little bit. Um, most of it was done in an executive session, but the fact that, you know, right at the end, Ricky said, “I can’t ask you to vote on an illegal bill. So, we’re going to I’m going to defer this

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and let it go to the ballot.” So, what what would have been nice was to have people sit down with our lawyers, with their lawyers, sit down in a room and talk it out. Talk it out. you know, if it takes six or eight months, get something that both sides can agree on. Can I ask you a question? I don’t know if if we want to answer this or not, but the kind of personal statements that came from a couple of the council people about um where this problem comes from has created um Yeah, I saw that and

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I and I said, “Okay.” Well, I was sitting there listening. Of course, when you’re listening on the fly, you have to Yeah. You have to make up your mind right there. But I I recorded it and I listened again. And it was, you know, um, Council Member Carllo said, “I’m from Machai. you know, this she she had some concerns about the the the hate-filled comments and and and the the the way people were coming again coming here and telling people how to how to live and how to work, how to

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do things. And Ricky Hokama was a little bit more aggressive on that. He actually said, you know, 1978 we had the block of power thing which was they wanted to try that was a constitutional convention year and they wanted to try and put in the constitution to to limit in migration from the 48 states from the mainland. Uh and they found that they couldn’t do it according to the US constitution. they got but it was a apparently a very very very long discussion dragged out and very heated discussion they were afraid of losing

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their culture. Now, when I say their culture, it’s it’s not Hawaiian. It’s not, you know, Caucasian, Chinese, Chinese. It’s the the the mentality of the people who are from the islands to say, look, we’ve we’ve worked we’ve lived together as a hodgepodge of people. If we have issues, we talk about them and we’ve solved them. Okay. Um I hope that we can employ that now. And that and that’s what even in this time that’s what Ricky was talking about. He said, “Look, we’re

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afraid of losing that kind of culture. Not the Hawaiian culture, not the Japanese culture, not the Filipino culture, but that culture of of working together as best we can. Okay? Sure, people have arguments, but they they usually are pretty good at at settling things.” So, you know, I heard those two comments and I said, “You know what? I got to I got to speak up.” I said, I’m I’m one of those guys that have come here, but I came here and I said, how do I fit in? You know, I learned how to

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paddle. I listened to what how things are done here and tried to fit in. It’s like me going to your house and and saying, you know, what are your customs as opposed to army post where everyone takes their shoes off. Yeah. As opposed to me going to your house and say, you know, Jason, that sofa should be over here and the TV should be over there. You don’t do that, right? Just like people start and it’s happened every year I’ve been here. People come in and say, you know, we should stop

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this, do that. You shouldn’t do it this way. That’s how we do it on the mainland. And it it I said, you know, that’s not what you do here. That’s not the Maui way. I said, and I’m embarrassed that that we have some people that are doing that. Doesn’t matter whether they’re Howie, whether they’re uh Filipino or anything. It’s a it’s a group of people coming up here and just raising a stink without sitting down and talking. Okay. So, that that’s where those comments came from. I see. And

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that’s where it came from here. I just it’s one of those things. And then it got And I appreciate that you’re open. It kept blowing up as racist. How is that racist? I just know every time I read the paper I wonder I really I wonder about a lot of things that are being reported and choices of stories and angles and I don’t know maybe we’ll have the publisher of Maui News on we’ll have a interview. Yeah. Give Joe a call. Yeah. Um I would like to also you may have things you want to talk about this

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but fire away. There’s so many issues circuit breaker this and that. Yeah. Yeah. Pick your favorite issues you want to talk that you think our audience may want to hear from you about or you think is important that they see where you are somehow a positive or supportive. Yeah. Um boy that you only have what how much how much space do you have on that phone? I was going to say how much tape you have but that doesn’t work anymore. You know the this can I think we can do three out. Oh god, people wouldn’t want

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to hear seriously. But you know, issues, you know, I could just rattle, you know, the the administration did does a a survey every year and they ask people what’s most important and the first two things that came up are education. And fortunately, those aren’t county issues, but those are some things that we can talk about. We kind of help are helping spur along the high school in Kihei. Um I think uh I can’t remember what the the fourth one was but it wasn’t it was more general economy jobs some of the things

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we could No see that’s according to the survey that the next thing was roads and then further down was affordable housing and then further down was water. I mean down at seven eight or nine. Yeah. And to me, yeah, you know, you would think it would be different. So, okay, roads. It cost if you’re just going to resurface a two-lane road like South Khi Road, uh, I think a mile just to just lay surface, not dig up the old I’m afraid to hear this number. Yeah. Just to I think a half a mile. It’s close to

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$300,000 just to do a half a mile. And that’s not digging up. Now, if you dig up, you know, I’ve heard so many things about roads, about materials for roads, cheaper. In fact, I hope they introduce things. They seem to be someone came to me with an extraordinary thing and they can’t get anyone’s attention. Like what? Uh something to make roads cheaper to bring the cost down dramatically. Well, unfortunately, we have to we have federal regulations we have to deal with because the federal government, a lot of

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our roads, the federal government will pay 80%. Uh, again, if they get off their rear ends and start funding the um the the transportation bill, but your your point was costs are high, costs are high to do roads. And so we have in the past, you know, three four budgets that I’ve worked on so far, uh, we have bumped up doing the roads, right? When I first came into council, which is only three years ago, everybody thinks, you know, you’re this good old boy. You’ve been in there forever. No, I haven’t.

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I’ve been in there three and a half years when I, you know, I’ve gotten four budgets under my belt. Okay. Um, so when when we first got in, apparently the roads were on about a 40 to 50 year maintenance plan. Every 40 to 50 years, they’d finally be able to to pay because we’ve got so many roads here. Well, with along with the administration and and the council, we we went brought it down to we funded enough to do it every 25 years. So, we brought it down because that’s usually the life of the

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road is 25 years. And instead of patching it over and over again, we’re trying to do get all the roads to a 25 year uh now. That doesn’t mean every road on Maui County is going to be done cuz we have 900 lane miles of road. And so that’s a lot of lane miles of road. You know, to really completely replace a road, I believe it’s a million dollars a lane mile. So, we’re talking a lot of money, a lot of taxpayers money, some of it uh funded by the federal government, but and that’s from your gas taxes. But

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we have a situation where everybody’s buying electric cars or high high mileage vehicles. They’re not buying as much gas now. And the electric cars, while they’re good for the environment, they don’t pay for the roads, but they use the roads and they put wear and tear on the roads. So that’s what the federal government’s having a hard time trying to figure out. Okay, how are we going to fund this now that the users of the roads are paying for the road? Yeah, that’s an

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interesting one. Yeah, would never thought of that. Okay. And and the thought was, well, we could just charge per mile, you know, which is fine except for the fact unless you want to go every month and give your odometer reading to somebody and and then pay, you’re going to have to pay once a year, a big chunk of money instead of what you usually pay for, you know, for the county, it’s I think it’s 13 cents a gallon for gas is goes to county taxes as and federal taxes are around 40 something cents. So,

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but that’s only if you buy gas. I mean, even I I have a hybrid, so I don’t buy I buy half as much gas as as my car normally would. Yeah. So, or if you drive one of these electric vehicles, you don’t buy any gas. So, that’s roads. Let’s work that down. Okay. So, we got roads. Yeah, I know. We could talk forever on roads. I know. Uh and and you know, did you know any of this stuff when you ran? I know you had your you had your one idea or your two ideas and said, I want to run. I had a different

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broad brush, you know, and I would be more on a major economic and environmental just to create jobs, right? But there’s and hopefully that would create revenue in different ways. That would be my direction. It’s the kind of jobs here. I’ve been looking for a real job except real estate agent for a long time. And that’s that’s really um you know you try to do as much as you can. That’s kind of a a market driven value um situation as well as the government driven. Yeah. You know we’re trying

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we’re working at the R&T park. We’re here in Kihei by the way. Um and the R&T park is right up the road. Um do we get free coffee here for a long time? Just remember tell Jagger. Yeah. See, now that’s if you want to talk about the economy, you’ve got this coffee store, which is Java Cafe. This is the one in Kihei, and you have a a Starbucks there, two Starbucks up the road. They’re packed with people. Yes, they deliver consistent product uh because you can get it wherever in the country or in the

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world almost now, but it’s not a local store. Here it’s local. Excuse me. They’re selling Maui coffee. They’re selling, excuse me, that’s right. That’s a big point. Maui coffee. They’re selling Machai coffee. They’re selling Kona coffee as well, but they that’s what they specialize that their dark roast is cooler organic. So, that keeps the money here. So, as part of the economy, we’re doing more agriculture, all kinds of agriculture, um, both organic and conventional. And

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there’s a place for both of those. Okay. Uh so, you know, if the more you buy local, the more the money stays in here, and that helps bring the economy up a little bit. Um we’re trying to diversify. We’ve been trying for years to get high-tech stuff. We’ve got a fairly decent high-tech park. They’re coming in for more space to do more things. So, that means to me that there’s more uh demand to come in here and do more high-tech stuff. So that’s that’s good because those are high paying jobs.

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There’s not a lot. There’s what three or 400 jobs up there. But that’s still three or 4 hundred more different types of jobs than than the service industry or I just know that we suffer here from many plantation mentality owners that employ lots of people at very low wages. That’s why you got two jobs everywhere. But here’s the thing. A lot of the a lot of that isn’t so much I mean yeah of course it is the the the business owner but it’s also the people there are people that are willing to do that but

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you get a lot of people moving in here that want that hey I want to live on an alley you know and not realizing how expensive it is or they’re fine they’ve got savings or they’ve got they can live off of doing because they just want to surf or they want to no offense to any surf you people. Kids are moving off island. They’re But the people who are born and raised here are moving off island. I I mean, I have an intern that’s that’s working for me for this summer. He’s he

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was born and raised here, but I said, “Well, what do you” And he said, “You know what? I I don’t think we should build Maui up anymore.” And I said, “Then where are you going to live?” “Oh, I’m going to go to Oregon.” Is that what you want your kids to do? Is they get born and raised here, then go away? We want to keep that uh that brain power here if but we have to have jobs for them in all spectrums. We’re trying to get away from just the tour tourism industry but

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tourism industry right now is what’s driving this island. I understand has been for as long as we know. It’s since the 60s. Um the the funny thing is, you know, we that that and that segus right into housing. Um you know, he was saying, “Hey, you know, we don’t need to build any more houses.” You know, I have a house. Great. If we don’t build any more houses in in 5 years, my house is going to be worth $2 million. And you know, of course, I’m going to sell it and rent

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somewhere else and I’ve got $2 million in the bank. But I don’t want to have that happen as supply and demand. We did a uh the the US census did a survey every 10 years and so the for from the year 2000 to 2009 the population of Maui grew 1500 more people moved here than moved away to the mainland from the mainland to the mainlandif plus 1500 not a lot the next level up was 4600 more people moved here from outside of the mainland mainly Asia that then that moved away mainly to other uh countries. So between 1500 and 4600

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that’s still only 6,6100 people in 10 years. It’s not a a very rapid growth. You know how many people the number of people who were born here versus the number of people who died here. What do you think that number was? I’m almost afraid to hear 8,900 150% more than people moving. So, so what does that translate to? That’s 10 thou 9 9,000 people and that in 10 15 years because that was up to 2009. So, uh you know they’re going to be about out of college here in another five or 10 years, right?

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But it also is this incredible demand and others are coming and eating up the There are people who are retiring on the mainland that affordable housing come here and eat up affordable housing. So that leads to all right if we’re going to build houses, we’ve got to be able to build affordable houses uh and deliver. But what is an affordable house? Yeah. Right. So all these affordable houses that were built on this on the waoo gardens project 210 of them now their five or 10 year their certainly their

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5year um uh restriction deed restriction is up which means they can now sell the house at a market price or the 10ear is coming up um I think next year. So that means somebody who has that affordable home can sell it at a market price at a at almost double the amount they bought it for 10 years ago. And so then it is no longer affordable. Mainland buyer less. A lot of people are still staying there, you know, so it’s affordable to them until they move. They can’t afford to go anywhere. They can if they can

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make $300,000. Keep pushing the numbers up and making it less affordable rental. when we’re working on the workforce housing bill, what I want to do is say we’ll give incentives to developers to to make houses affordable in perpetuity. And the way to do that is we have a um what’s called a community-based land trust. It’s called Mahal Maui. And what they do is they buy they would buy the house and then they would sell the house to somebody, but only the house the land underneath would be the Holly Maui. and

37:39

they’d have a deal that says you can live in this house and you can even sell it after so many years. Um, depending on how many years there’s a formula that you get some of the equity and then Nahal Maui gets some of the equity and Nalio Maui will buy it back, fix it up and sell it to somebody else again at a lower affordable price. So that keeps that house affordable in perpetuity. And once they get enough homes that they can do that, they’re self- sustaining. Right now, the county is helping them out in

38:10

this, helping subsidize that until they can get going to where they’re uh self- sustaining. And then then you’ve got affordable housing forever. Um well that’s a very so that’s one of the things we’re putting that incentive in the workforce housing plan so that if somebody does that say uh you know by the 670 we required to do 500 affordable homes there if they can work with Nali Maui and Nahal Maui essentially manages those 500 homes they sell them they give the you know the the

38:52

the sales price to the developer and then it’s their the it would be your home. It would be Nahal Maui’s land a $40 or $50 a year uh fee on the land and then when you sold it in the Hollywood Maui would buy it back at a certain rate and then um sell it to the next person for at affordable that fits the affordable criteria. So that would be 500 homes just like that that the developer wouldn’t have to deal with trying to sell and qualify people for the right thing cuz Nal Maui or some other entity

39:27

like that once they start getting my only concern and again I’m sure it’s yours too there’s just not enough of it at this point no because we have so many people waiting for you. We have a lot of people waiting but you also can’t get loans now. It used to be you were able to get a loan. Let me check with the camera and see how we’re doing. We’ve been talking about 22 minutes. Is that right? That’s all we’ve been talking now. You’ve said a lot in 22 minutes. So, you

39:57

know, that’s the affordable housing part. And part of that again in the affordable housing bill is look, you’ve got to you got to build it at the same time or prior to your market rate home. So prior to this they the reason the affordable housing bill came along is there were people who would form a company and say this develop this subdivision we’re going to build and at the end of that buildout were required to build 25% affordable homes right well they would never end. If you go to some

40:28

of these subdivisions you’ll see three or four vacant lots. Oh, well, we didn’t, you know, sell all the lots. We didn’t and now we’re out of business because this LLC that takes long or whatever. So, when when we came into when I started working for Allen, our call in 2003, um, by 200 five, four or five, we came up, we did an inventory of how much affordable houses we were owed. 4,000 corporate homes we were owed for that. You know, the folks that said, “Yeah, we’ll do it after we build our

41:05

home.” So, we said, “No, this is not right. You’ve now got to build them at the same time or before.” And so, um, that’s what the workforce has. Well, it’s not working out right now because at the the economy had a big slump. So you can’t get loans. And also the 50% affordable requirement. It’s just too much. I mean, there’s only been 10 houses built with that workforce housing bill and those were affordable for 90 days. And after 90 days, nobody bought I think two

41:41

people bought the 10 uh two of the 10 the then it went into regular market rate. I see. Because the houses were too tiny. So, the the 50% is just a little too high. Um, we’re looking at, you know, the current um bill, I think, is set to 25%. I’m going to try and bump it to 30%. Um, maybe I’ll get the support of my uh the members. Um, because of the way the math works out, it’s better at 30%. I think it would work out, everything would work out fine. So, with this in the meantime, and I maybe you

42:20

don’t have an answer. Maybe it’s hard to say because we also need affordable rentals. We sure do. That is to get that done. It’s really hard to do because to have a to build something that’s so expensive and then to charge an affordable rental rate. Uh you’re not going to it’s not doesn’t pencil out. Why would you build build something and lose money on it? I keep wondered building code. Well, we have the 2011. Well, see now about people that are homeless that aren’t mental and drug problems.

43:00

Correct. We do have services for those folks. They’ve been really not doing the job a lot. But we have a new executive director now for Nahal, not Nahali, Kahala. It’s going to start, I think, next month. Uh hopefully that’ll turn that situation around where I mean for people who really need to to need a hand up, we’ll have the the space. There’s still the issue with the people who have a drug issue or a mental issue. And there’s a it’s not just a Maui issue. It’s a nationwide issue. And

43:40

and that first group is also not being served. I mean, now it’s not the forum and you’re not the guy, but I think it’s Not completely being served, but as many places as we have, they’re being filled. Oh, I understand. I’m just talking about there are people that fall through the cracks and we really don’t have a We used to have a guy for that worked at the county. Um, and I think he still does. He used to know every homeless person, but now there are so many. Um, some being shipped here

44:10

from Aahu or from the mainland. Some have been created here. Some are being created here. Um, a lot of that has to do with the downturn in the economy. Yeah. And you know the it used to be when you went to Jack in the Box or McDonald’s, the people working there. Look at me. I lost 11 houses, half a million dollars when the mortgage thing, right? How do you replace that here with $10 an hour and not get and but but at the same time now you’re you know in a spot where you know I got to find a job and so I’m

44:44

going to work at Jack in the Box. You know what that does? That takes away from the 20 and the the teenagers. So now we’re seeing the age of the homeless coming down. Uh some of them are just but at the same time we have homeless that have laptops and cell phones and We’re we’re trying to figure out how and nowhere to plug in except Starbucks which becomes homeless central and right so it’s crazy there is a homeless uh workforce homeless alliance um they’re they’re they’ve got a real go-getter now

45:20

that’s working Lisa Lisa yeah Lisa Darcy uh we need to help Lisa too as much as we can frustrated I know with lack of communication and organization and all it’s such she’s hopefully getting that group together. Before it was just a they would meet and say, “Yeah, there’s a homeless problem. What are we going to do about now with Lisa in there?” I applaud her and I know there’s so much more to do. I’m hoping that, you know, our private sector will realize we need you involved. You know,

45:52

you talked about a tent city. That’s one of the things we wanted to do um in the Arakawa administration is set up a tent city somewhere. First of all, where second of all, getting the lawyers to buy into it was very difficult and we couldn’t just don’t buy in. That’s their job. But now, um I I was doing some research on those and I’m finding out that there are places on the mainland that are um have done that and now they’re closing them down because they just don’t work. We we sort of had one

46:27

um a a de facto one back I remember when the breakwater when they were all moving to the breakwater. I remember that. Um it was fine until it just got into there was a lot of drugs going on there. There was crimes going on and then we had to just clear it out because it you tried to let Yeah. It was overrun. tried to let people do what they wanted to do and it just got crazy. So, and that’s what they’re finding out in these tent cities now in on the mainland. What about safe zones and parking lots even for people

47:01

to park? I mean, there are women that are homeless that have no place safe. They can’t park on the street. It’s crazy. I I don’t know what people do when they have nowhere to park. Well, if I hope they are trying they’re reaching out to the county um department of housing and human concerns for they have been they have that’s why I say there are people falling through the cracks for our show but safe zones there a lot of people that just can’t be under the level of rules that get imposed from

47:28

some of these by nature of having so many people together and they people can’t be in a barracks kind of thing with kids screaming all around 50 people in the room you know it gets to See, sorry. That’s easy. Well, love. I’m just bringing it up because I know there’s not easy answers, but you’ve made them all. Affordable rentals, affordable housing. We got to get affordable. We got to try to do something and we’re working on, you know, we can’t I mean, we we’ve uh we

48:01

bought some land to build some, but we really can’t build. We’re not builders, so we have to bring in nonprofits to build. So, Habitat for Humanity is working really hard in getting places. Um, like I said in the Holly Maui and then there’s a couple of uh people that specialize in affordable rentals that are coming to us now to say, okay, you know, we either want to buy this complex or we want to build something here. What do we need to do? So, it it’s moving. It’s moving at a

48:30

glacial pace, but it is moving. And like I said, it’s a nationwide issue. Do you love your job? I love it. You do. You know, I had I had black hair before brown hair before I started the job. Uh, you know, you you get to the point where you’re not going to please everybody. I mean, it just you have to sit there and say, “What’s best for Maui?” You know, here’s here’s where we’re at. Here’s where we have to grow. I mean, we’ve set lines in the sand where we grow now. And

49:05

so what is going to be the best for Maui? Um, and there’s not it’s not usually this side or that side. There’s gray areas in between. And a lot of times it comes down to, you know, as they’re doing a roll call. How you going to make your decision after you get all the, you know, I’m not an expert in everything. You’re not an expert in everything. So what you have to do is you have to sit down and listen to everybody. You listen to testifiers. People say, “Oh, they don’t listen to test stories.” Yes, we

49:35

do. Um, it may not, you know, we got criticized for not asking questions. Well, a lot of times you hear the test. You are a very open sitting council person, right? You know, for years, the ones that were sitting in the seats didn’t they didn’t open up like we’re doing here. And I don’t know how many of the present people really do, you know, but um I just know that I see that you are and I hope that our public knows that. Yeah. I I always say anybody can come, you know, you give us a call,

50:06

we’ll fit you in the schedule, but we will talk to you. Um so you love it. If you have an issue, you have any plans to go further or you just you know, I just got to get through this election. I know. And it it it kind of amuses me. Um, I know when I ran I they had specific reasons why I didn’t like what the incumbent was doing and I named them. Um, this one it it surprised me. Nobody said they nobody’s ever talked to me beforehand and said, “Hey, why are you doing this?” They just said, “Well, I’m

50:42

running against you.” Well, when you live in a district and you feel you want, you know, Yeah. you stand up. I know. But, you know, used to be you used to talk to then and if you didn’t like what they said then yeah go ahead and run against me and now it’s just like okay which is fine I understand that which is more like again we’re talking about what happens in Washington is happening here you know we well we’re still we’re still we still talk amongst you know if we go

51:12

out to to a conference or whatever to an event we chat we don’t obviously because and we’re the only ones at the county and municipal level is the only place that has sunshine law. State and federal they can talk. We have sunshine law. So if we get together more than three, we’re all very cognizant of what we talk about. We talk about hey kids or whatever or whatever what event we’re going to talk business. You can’t talk business and you know everybody says well you know you’re gonna get five of

51:44

you guys together in the back room and talk about something. said, “Well, no, because if you get a certain five people or three or two, three or four or five or even all of us, you’re not always going to agree. So, if you agree on one thing in the back room, no, that’s my But then one of the five gets pissed off at you for not voting the way or or not seeing your way or whatever gets pissed off. You know what? Those guys, they broke the sunshine.” So, it’s self policing. We’re very careful. If we get

52:18

three, okay, there’s three of us. If the two were talking about some, you know, you and I, we’re council members. We can talk about an issue, but as soon as a third person comes in, we have to stop. And we do say, “Oh, sometimes not.” Or if somebody approaches, they see that we’re talking about an issue, they just turn around and walk away. But, you know, behind the chambers there’s a lunch room and usually there’s five or six of us eating lunch, hand staff, and so there’s there’s either always staff

52:45

there or there’s enough of us to say, you know, we don’t talk. Have you had any issues with security up there? No. I mean, they have new walls, new stuff. But used to be very accessible. Used to be very accessible. Changed a lot. It turns out that staff requested that um prior to us being on there um there were people that would come in and bang on the walls and say, “Hey, I know you’re in there. I want to talk to you. You can’t hide from me.” And that would scare the staff. Yeah. So, they

53:18

decided to put the security on there. It’s unfortunate. Yeah. Um I remember when videaping in the we hope that by the time people come here they’ve been screened three four times. Oh no we’re diluted down. Um we get them. Huh. Yeah. Unfortunately it just that’s the nature of the beast. Um we are you know hoping we don’t have to hire security of any kind. Um any major issues you know that people would like to hear your take on? I mean I like I said you as a sitting council person different than someone

53:55

I’m trying to give them get an idea whether well you heard the the housing situation it’s it’s it’s tough. Um we’re coming out of the the the great recession right now. So hopefully that’ll pick up. The one good thing is we drew a line in the sand and said you can two uh two years ago the Maui Island plan we said okay here’s our urban growth boundaries so we’ll let you develop inside that’s the big question yes we made it very very difficult to change that line um so we’ve got the

54:31

line in the sand now we’re going through the community plan process rather slowly to my take you know we did have a setback in Lai with the unfortunate plane crash that that sets back the process quite a bit because those are a couple of the the planners that were dealing with that. So we are moving forward with the Lai community plan. It’s I think it’s about ready to come to council. That’s a good thing. Then there there we just named the Machai Community Plan Advisory Committee and hopefully once we finish

55:05

the LAI at council then we can start we can name the West Maui uh community plan advisory committee. So we’re starting with the community plan. So that’s where the community gets together. 13 people from that community, the West Maui community is going to get together and say, “This is how we want to see it built out. Here’s the urban growth boundaries.” They can they could probably ask to have those urban growth boundaries changed a little bit. Um, but they have to have a really good reason.

55:38

You know, shrinking I don’t think would be a problem. Expanding would be a problem. Well, it’s nice to hear that someone’s drawn a line in the sand. We have drawn a line in the sand and that sand that line in the sand is there until 2030 and I I’m guessing longer because of the way the recession has has taken hold and so nothing’s being built. You know that’s what the developers have always wanted. They said where can we build so we can build and we don’t have to deal with all the you

56:06

know saying yes you can build here no you can’t build here maybe this week you can next week you can’t. We put that line in the sand and said, “Here you go. You can build inside of here.” You still have to go through some of the processes, but this is and if it fits with the community plan, it should be fairly smooth sailing as opposed to uh having to do all kinds of difficulties. That’s cuz all that stuff adds to the price of a house. The longer it takes to get through that

56:36

process, it adds to the price of the house. So therefore only the people who are retiring from the mainland on big huge salaries and there’s a lot of them can come here and we don’t want to have that as our soul in migration. We want people who are living here or who have moved away you know born and raised here moved away because they can’t come back. We want to bring some of those back as much as possible. So, we’re we’re working on that. And it’s not a I can switch it on overnight.

57:08

Now, I know um one of those lines in the sand we drove was around Olaw. And that was a a situation where since 2005, the developers said, “Okay, we have this chunk of land.” First of all, they went to the community. Prior to this, developers would just say, “This is where we’re building.” and the community would say like that. This time the developers went to the community and said, “Can we build here? Do you think it’s a good idea to build here?” They went for years and had

57:41

talk stories. They had meetings with the community. They had a lot of they got a lot of input beforehand and they finally came up with a product that if they do it right, it should work. But they have to do it right. Now, what all we did is say, “Okay, we’ll put that line in the sand around Olaw, but you still got to pass the community plan process.” We did not, contrary to what some people are saying, we did not change any zoning in Olaw. Um, we did not do anything other than draw a line in the sand saying,

58:17

“Okay, this is where you can do something if the community plan allows for it.” So, there’s another whole set of 13 people plus planning commission plus council that that has to go through before any kind of okay is done and that’s 5 years from now 6 years from now maybe at the at the earliest I would say I see it would start probably 3 years from now and by the time it gets through all the processes it’s going to be 3 to 5 years from now if it it all gets done now you’re going to hear

58:53

people say well you know there’s they’re allowing building an old walawali The concern and it’s my concern as well is the reef. It’s a beautiful reef. The problem is is nothing is done with all the several hundred houses can be built there in a lot. These two acre plus a lot with no real controls on runoff. So all that stuff, either the fow mud or if they put two or 300 homes in there, uncontrolled drainage will all go into the reef and kill that reef. Whereas if something’s done

59:43

uh called low impact design where they have rain gardens, they have man-made wetlands down before it gets into the reef. The stuff that goes into the reef into the ocean is going to be much cleaner and much more controlled than what is existing. Knowledge that you got now all happened through being there on the council, sitting in those meetings, listening, uh, listening to testifiers, reading written testimony. Um, it’s a lot of work. It’s a part-time job, too. How is that? Yeah, it’s called parttime.

01:00:20

Yeah. We don’t get we don’t get paid vacation or um sick leave like a regular employee does. Oh, which is no big deal cuz since we’re parttime, we set our own hours. You know, I’m thinking we should give Don Couch’s voice a break because uh No, he’s been talking a lot. He had a busy day. Yep. Your days are long days. Yes, they are, aren’t they? Yep. We were in uh committee today. What do we Oh, budget and finance committee. We recess till Friday. Uh budget and finance committee. We’re

01:00:55

talking about three different options of of uh buying some land to put our new the DMV. The DMV is leaving that we being kicked out of Maui Mall by the owners. Again, we’re renting that space. Why not buy some land, put a building up, and at the end of 20 years, hey, we’re we’re living there rent free by chance A and B. One of the spots is A and B and for their 4 acre lot um for us to buy that 4acre lot for 6 million or something like that. Uh in a all the work is done except for building

01:01:35

the building. All the site prep work and everything is done. We get if we buy there we also get 30 acres of land from Baldwin Beach Park to the Bayou Center. All that would be county land never built on, you know, and eventually becoming an I would say a passive park. You know, Baldwin Beach Park has a soccer field. I I wouldn’t see any other um fields there. Maybe grassy areas and and tree areas, maybe where you can camp or something like that. Hopefully safe. So yeah, that’s a real rough stretch. So

01:02:10

that’s that’s one of our options. Another option is to buy 5 acres in Khalilani and get a 15 acre parcel for affordable housing which is closer to the county building. So that’s the ar the debate we’re having we had this morning and then we’re going to carry on to um Friday. There are some people that don’t want to do either. Some of the members don’t want to do either because they want everything concentrated in in Wuku to save Wuku, which I understand, but the service center, the DMV is

01:02:40

already outside of Wuku. So instead of bring all that traffic into Wuku, let’s keep it outside. My if I could only I would like to get both pieces of land for eventually using stuff for the for the county. You know, land is cheap right now. Um interest rates are cheap. You know, bond rates are cheap. So money is cheap. Land is cheap. Get it now. Or we’ll have something like what happened with Haloa Beach. Haloa Beach. At one time they could have bought it for $6 million. I’m sorry. $6.5 million and half the

01:03:14

whole beach. They bought it 5 years later, two lots for $5 million. So for for want of a million dollars and in five years, which I understand we were in difficult times at the time, but you got to think ahead. Sure do. you know, for want of a billion dollars in 1996 or something like that or 2000, I can’t remember exactly, we now have multi-million multi-million dollar homes and two lots for a party. Um, let me ask you cuz I’ve seen and I don’t know how this even used to be parties

01:03:49

are a big deal, then they all went nonpartisan. Over time in government, have you changed your opinions about some of the people that you were working with? Oh, yeah. decision. We’re We are nonpartisan. No, but I’m for example, I you know, I know Linda Lingle may still be a friend, but a lot of decisions that were made, you know, when you get into the office, you don’t know. Some of her decisions were interesting. Um, and so, you know, but you don’t know unless you’re in there sitting in the

01:04:19

office. Um, some of them are questionable. Uh, and and I don’t want to put you I’m just thinking over time, you know, when you watch politicians, you hear them grow and um I’m just wondering is some go different ways. You know, I prior to being on the council, you had different opinions on some of some of you know that thing around here. Some people say Republican is this, Democrat is this. Well, that’s why I like it. We’re nonpartisan. Yeah. County offices are all nonpartisan. I think it’s a

01:04:51

great thing because we’re our people, you know, we talk to each other. We know where I know where Ricky stands. I know where Ellie stands. I know where Mike White stands on certain issues. Um, and you just have to argue your case on the floor eloquently and they just don’t agree with you, then then the vote goes as it does. I’ve been on boats where, you know, I don’t even get a second to my motion. Well, so is Ellie and so is Mike Victorino, I think. You know, several people have not gotten

01:05:27

second to their motion. And okay, I guess this was not a good motion. And then we’ve been a lot of 90 votes, a lot of 54 votes. And the thing with the 54 votes, even this term, not the same five people or the same four people. It’s different depending on the subject. So what do you think of the term limit stuff and the people back and forth and term limits are again running after jumping away and Bob Carol five terms didn’t No, Bob was only in there for three and he came out for health and now

01:05:59

he’s he’s back in for two. I’m just wonder I think are good. Um, it would be better because you have to run every two years, you know, and you have to kind of think of that when you’re when you’re taking some of your part-time work away from the building. Um, some of your attention gets taken to having to run for election, doing these interviews and whatnot. Yeah. So although these guys are always you’re always available just know I think that people really appreciate these this meet the

01:06:32

candidates of three minutes early. I’m sorry this helps quite a bit and and you know I’ve done it I think every every election. I’m not sure you know but you know from your experience running it people crave this information. They want to see who you are right. Yeah. And so you know term limits are good. I I’m fine fine with the term limits. Maybe you have to sit out two terms before you come back. Uh just to give the the other guy a chance. Maybe that would be the way or just maybe someone else would

01:07:05

run. I’m really it’s sad to see how few candidates and I just I’m underwhelmed by but it’s you know it it is a difficult it’s getting more more and more difficult. It used to be a really really a part-time job where you just come in, do your uh committee work and go. Um but now there’s more and more complex things going on just, you know, from from 80,000 people to 150,000 people in 20 years. Yeah. You just there are more things you got to do and you got to be more specific. Now before when

01:07:39

it was 40,000 50,000 people when the law said this you got the intent of the law. everybody was kind of cool and if not somebody would say look you can’t do that. Now you’ve got somebody saying no you can’t do that and the lawyer say well it doesn’t quite say that. So now we have to make more ironclad laws as opposed to the intent or the spirit of the law. So, it it’s getting to where you’ve got to be as as accurate as you possibly can be, and you still can’t um foresee every situation. Who knew

01:08:16

that we needed to have a a law 10 years ago or even 15 years ago about driving while texting while driving, texting while talking on the phone? People would say, “What what the heck is that?” Well, now you have to have that law and it’s a very good common sense law. Speaking of that, I’m sure you realize this Bo Hawks thing which is I had an interview with him just yesterday and I must say he is incredibly compassionate. Oh, sure. And um really holds no ill will against the Maui police for the incident. He did

01:08:52

take a swing at the cop and ran. Well, I don’t think that’s what I heard. Well, if you look at the video, he takes a swing. Yeah, he took a swing at the cop and then took off. At least that’s what it shows on the video. I’d like to look closer. Guy didn’t feel a swing in this guy. Yeah, take a look at it. And that I didn’t think so either. Then I looked at it again. I said, “Oh, no wonder.” That’s an interesting perspective. And then uh somebody was saying, well, you

01:09:22

know, only if if he was in danger should you know he was a threat. Taser. Do you tase him? Well, he was running on a public street. What if a car was coming and swerve to avoid him and hit somebody else? I don’t know. You’re in the middle of a public street. Taser is a fairly significant action. I’d say it’s probably less damaging than tackling the guy and then having to subdue him. Well, the thing about the swing part is new to me. Yeah. Yeah. Take a look at the video again from the beginning when

01:09:54

he just before he takes off. Big swing and then goes. I mean, big roundhouse. Anyway, see, it’s this is a good thing we’re not in a court of law. Oh, a roundhouse. You sure it was turning around? No. Anyway, I like I said, I I met him and I there’s no violence and I’m glad I hope this all can work out and we don’t have any issues. Believe me, right? That isn’t why I brought it up. I was just going to say, you know, we’re out there, people have come forward and whether we’re unknown

01:10:30

or known and all that’s happening. I’m hoping through this election season we all remember we all love each other and brothers and sisters and when all this benchmark called an election is done we all live here together and I hope that we get that you know whole ponop pono is a good thing I mean that’s a great idea very important I I hope that we all honor that because that’s the biggest thing that I see now there’s so much tension in the air from these big issues. I know. And the the tension is

01:11:07

new. It’s new tension. Hopefully, everybody takes a breath. Let’s see what happens and move forward in a in a more calm move forward together. And whatever will be happening, we got to remember we want to do this. You know, that word pono is such a Hawaiian word, real important. stand in balance and gentle and talk things out and make it all work without there’s viciousness coming things that are I don’t know where they’re coming from but they sure aren’t island style right and that was my the gist of my

01:11:44

comment let’s make it island style thank you very much thank you for taking the time for this sorry we ran over oh almost an hour ago that’s good well you know that’s one thing uh it’s nice that you know you know what you’re doing and you feel like you’re confident what you’re doing And I’m just getting my legs. This is my second term. So, I’m getting my legs, getting ready to to become a veteran. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you guys for watching. Thank you.

01:12:08

Aloha. Aloha.