11-7–2020 Jason Schwartz with DR. LORRIN PANG, Department of Health discussion on COVID19, Rat Lung Disease solution/s and Reduction of Nitrates from Wastewater and cesspools. Interesting relaxed discussion- FOLLOW-UP show for 11-21 re Update on COVID situation after a month of Travelers AND Lanai Outbreak.
Summary & transcript
[00:00 → 02:00] Introduction and Context Setting
Jason Schwartz introduces Dr. Lorrin Pang, head of the Maui Department of Health, during an informal discussion.
The conversation opens with the announcement of Joe Biden as president-elect, marking a new political tone amidst ongoing global challenges like COVID-19.
Dr. Pang emphasizes that although COVID-19 is a major concern, their work extends beyond it, touching on other public health issues with promising advances.
[02:00 → 07:00] Rat Lungworm Disease: Overview and Local Impact
Rat lungworm disease is a parasitic infection involving rats, snails, and slugs. The parasite cycles naturally between rats and snails/slugs. Humans become infected by accidentally ingesting small snails or slugs carrying the parasite.
In humans, the parasite causes severe meningitis due to immune system overreaction in the brain, leading to permanent brain damage or death.
Hawaii has had rat lungworm parasites for years, but a highly invasive semi-slug species has rapidly spread across the Big Island and now threatens Maui.
The semi-slug is peri-domiciliary (thrives near human habitats), invasive, and aggressive, often found in homes and gardens, contaminating food sources like leafy greens.
Cases of human infection have increased, with significant health consequences and support groups formed for survivors who suffer long-term neurological damage.
The disease has spread beyond Hawaii to continental U.S. states such as Texas, Louisiana, and Missouri, where veterinarians noticed symptoms in puppies similar to human infection.
Key insight: This disease represents a slow-moving pandemic due to ecological spread and difficulty in controlling slug populations.
[07:00 → 14:00] Innovative Electric Barriers to Control Semi-Slug Spread
Maui’s Department of Health developed electric fences as barriers to prevent slugs from contaminating leafy greens and other crops.
The fence uses low-voltage (6 volts) electricity to shock and repel slugs without killing them, preventing them from crossing into vulnerable agricultural areas.
The electric fence is inexpensive, easy to install, and effective in field trials, including at a community garden in Kula where farmers reported healthier crops.
The shock induces slugs to secrete mucus, which acts as a chemical deterrent, preventing others from crossing the barrier even when it is not electrified.
Attempts to kill slugs using higher voltages resulted in slug bodies forming non-conductive bridges, reducing the fence’s effectiveness.
The electric fence technology was inspired by similar systems used in Chinese escargot farms and is being considered for wider application across the Hawaiian Islands.
Patenting issues: The state and college debated patenting this technology, but concerns over accessibility and public benefit led to a preference for keeping it open-source.
Key insight: The solution balances ecological sensitivity, cost-effectiveness, and practical application to control an invasive species threatening public health and agriculture.
[14:00 → 21:00] Challenges in Health Technology Sharing and Government Limitations
Discussion of challenges in sharing health technologies freely, including politics, patents, and government bureaucracy.
Dr. Pang reflects on his experience with government research vs. private industry incentives and the conflict of interest that sometimes arises.
The COVID-19 pandemic has highlighted issues with inconsistent testing policies, delays, and lack of coordinated government response.
Example given: Hawaii’s policy allowing a second COVID test post-arrival to detect infections missed pre-travel, but complications arise because travelers may avoid testing if it threatens their itinerary or quarantine requirements.
Key insight: Public health measures are often complicated by economic and political pressures, especially in tourism-dependent regions like Maui.
[21:00 → 30:00] Sustainable Sewage Solutions: Replacing Cesspools with Innovative Systems
Hawaii faces a massive public health and environmental challenge: replacing 70,000 cesspools, which contaminate groundwater and coastal reefs with nitrates and pathogens.
Traditional septic tanks are expensive ($35,000–$45,000 each) and logistically difficult to install in some locations, leading to delays and underfunding.
Nitrate pollution is a critical factor in coral reef degradation and drinking water safety.
An alternative solution involves composting toilets and worm-based waste treatment systems developed by Berkeley and Lawrence Livermore Labs, proven effective in India and Haiti.
These systems use worms to break down human waste into germ-free, nitrate-reduced compost (“black gold”), which can be used safely as fertilizer, reducing environmental impact dramatically.
Pilot programs on Maui have shown a 95% reduction in nitrates, outperforming septic tanks (which reduce nitrates by about 50%) and costing only $1,200 to install.
This solution offers scalable options for individual households or community systems, with potential to protect fresh water and ocean reefs.
Key insight: Innovative, low-cost ecological sanitation solutions can simultaneously address environmental, health, and economic challenges in Hawaii.
[30:00 → 38:00] Monitoring COVID-19 Impact and Tourism Challenges
Discussion on the reopening of tourism in Maui and Lanai with the associated rise in COVID-19 cases expected within 3–5 weeks post-reopening.
Visitors often arrive with pending or positive COVID-19 tests, which strains quarantine and isolation facilities.
Current policy requires positive cases and their close contacts to quarantine locally for 10–14 days, disrupting travel plans and deterring testing compliance.
Calls for stronger pre-travel testing, including negative test requirements (not just pending), and considerations of extending the time window for pre-travel tests from 3 to 5 days before arrival.
Ethical and logistical challenges in conducting departure testing studies (testing on departure from Maui without disrupting travel plans) to better understand infection rates among visitors.
Maui struggles to balance economic dependence on tourism with public health safety, with limited financial resources to implement robust testing and quarantine protocols.
Key insight: The island faces a difficult trade-off between reopening the economy and controlling COVID-19 spread, with calls for calibrated restrictions rather than all-or-none approaches.
[38:00 → 47:00] Political and Social Perspectives on COVID-19 Control and Broader Public Health
Dr. Pang expresses frustration with inconsistent federal responses and political interference in COVID-19 testing and messaging.
He welcomes the Biden administration’s more science-driven approach to pandemic control.
The conversation touches on the challenge of balancing short-term economic gains (tourism) versus long-term sustainability and health security.
Reflection on past experiences with dengue outbreaks where initial suppression of information to protect tourism backfired by eroding public trust.
Emphasis on transparent communication with the public to maintain trust and improve compliance with health measures.
Discussion of homelessness and social welfare challenges exacerbated by the pandemic and economic downturn, with limited resources to address basic needs.
The need to diversify Maui’s economy beyond tourism to build resilience and address social inequities.
Key insight: Public health advocacy requires courage, transparency, and a focus on sustainable solutions that protect both people and the environment.
[47:00 → End] Closing Remarks and Future Outlook
Jason and Dr. Pang agree on the importance of staying positive and solution-focused despite challenges.
They plan to revisit the conversation in about 10 days to update on COVID-19 developments and other ongoing health initiatives.
Dr. Pang reaffirms commitment to innovative, science-based approaches for Maui’s health and environmental issues.
Encouragement to the public to continue wearing masks and practicing responsible behavior to control COVID-19.
Teaser for future discussions on related topics such as genetic research (NRF2 gene receptors) and agricultural innovations.
Timeline of Key Topics Discussed
Timestamp
Topic
Key Points
00:00– 02:00
Introduction & COVID-19 context
New political leadership, ongoing COVID-19 threat, introduction of Dr. Pang
02:00– 07:00
Rat lungworm disease overview
Parasite lifecycle, invasive semi-slug, human health impact, spread beyond Hawaii
07:00– 14:00
Electric slug barriers
Low-voltage electric fences, mucus deterrent effect, field trials, patent discussion
14:00– 21:00
Health tech sharing & government challenges
Pandemic testing policies, government vs. private sector conflicts, COVID-19 testing issues
Visitor testing challenges, quarantine logistics, ethical issues in testing studies
38:00– 47:00
Political/social issues & public health messaging
Federal response critique, transparency importance, homelessness, economic diversification
47:00– End
Closing and future plans
Encouragement, positivity, upcoming updates, continued public health vigilance
Key Quantitative Data
Topic
Data/Figure
Notes
Semi-slug parasite carriage
~78% of invasive semi-slugs carry parasite
Indicates high risk of transmission
Electric fence voltage
6 volts (low voltage)
Effective for slug repellence without killing
Cesspools in Hawaii
~70,000 cesspools
Major source of nitrate pollution
Septic tank cost
$35,000 – $45,000
Expensive infrastructure replacement
Worm-based toilet cost
~$1,200 per unit
Includes labor, materials, and worms
Nitrate reduction (worm system)
~95% reduction in nitrates
Better than septic tanks (~50%)
Nitrate safe levels
Drinking water: ≤10 units/ml; Reef: ≤0.1 units/ml
Critical thresholds for health/environment
COVID-19 visitors/day pre-COVID
~8,000 visitors per day
Baseline tourism volume
Current visitors (COVID era)
~1,000-3,000 visitors per day
Reduced due to pandemic restrictions
Core Concepts and Terms
Rat Lungworm Disease: A parasitic infection causing eosinophilic meningitis in humans, transmitted by ingestion of infected snails or slugs.
Semi-slug (Invasive Species): Aggressive snail/slug species spreading rat lungworm parasite rapidly in Hawaii.
Electric Fence Barrier: Low-voltage electric fences developed to repel slugs from crops, reducing disease spread.
Composting Toilet/Worm System: An eco-friendly, low-cost human waste treatment method using worms to reduce pathogens and nitrates.
Nitrate Pollution: Excess nitrogen compounds from sewage causing water contamination and coral reef damage.
Quarantine and Isolation: Public health protocols to contain COVID-19 spread among visitors and residents.
Pre-Travel Testing Policies: COVID-19 testing requirements before travel to reduce imported cases.
Public Health Transparency: Importance of honest communication regarding health risks to maintain trust.
Key Insights and Conclusions
Rat lungworm disease is an emerging and severe health threat in Hawaii, exacerbated by invasive semi-slugs and difficult to control due to ecological factors.
Innovative electric fencing is a promising, cost-effective solution to limit slug movement and reduce infection risk in agriculture.
Hawaii’s sewage infrastructure crisis requires urgent, affordable, and sustainable alternatives; worm-based composting toilets show extraordinary potential to reduce pollution and costs.
COVID-19 reopening strategies need careful calibration to prevent overwhelming local health systems, especially on small islands with limited quarantine capacity.
Political and economic pressures complicate public health responses; transparent communication and science-driven policies are critical for managing pandemics and environmental health.
Diversification away from tourism-dependent economy is necessary for long-term resilience in Maui and Hawaii’s public health and welfare.
Closing Remarks
Dr. Lorrin Pang’s interview highlights Maui’s unique public health challenges, innovative solutions under development, and the complex interplay of environmental, social, and economic factors shaping health policy. The emphasis on science-based, community-focused approaches offers hope for sustainable progress in managing both endemic and pandemic threats.
Transcript
00:00
[Music] aloha everyone uh my name is jason schwartz i am here at the maui neutral zone with uh someone who locally here doesn’t need introduction but for you of the world this is dr lauren pang who’s the head of our department of health and um we are in the middle of oh just today we found out we have a new president-elect president joe biden so uh it sets a new tone i’m only announcing that to give you a marker because right here we are blessed we’re in maui but we also have things going on in the
00:52
world everyone knows there’s this covert 19 sars virus uh we’re not immune and i asked dr peng if he would be comfortable this is his day off i was just fooling with him there he is he’s in his t-shirt i put on a real shirt today normally i would wear a t-shirt i said he’s the only guy i know that on his day off goes out and looks for problems and goes and tries to help thanks for joining me here today i know you’re very busy how have you been uh pretty good it’s not it hasn’t been all covered you know
01:27
we’ve we’ve continued on with a couple very promising things maybe i should talk about those soon or later uh very promising things and uh it’s kind of like you said we didn’t look for trouble but trouble found us a few years ago and we pursued stuff and it looks very promising on different fronts why don’t we start with that that sounds a good great place to start okay by the time people listen about covet maybe we’ll have already given them some promising things to to look at past
02:00
um first of all i’m under the uh philosophy that in the area of health or medicine you learn one thing very well and if you just pay attention there’s many things to apply to the other problem okay now uh i guess in january this past january seems like long ago yeah just before we shut down hawaii shutdown there was an international meeting for rat lung disease in hilo because let me summarize rat lung disease is a parasitic disease which it normally the parasite runs in snails and slugs and wraps snails and
02:40
slugs wrap so it just cycles in those two animals snails slums wrap blah blah blah when humans inadvertently eat the slug maybe very small slugs or snails let’s just call snails and slugs slugs when you inadvertently eat them then you become the part of the wrath and in the rat normally the parasite goes around through the rat in different stages obligatory comes up through the brain passes down again swallow it and all and then gets in the lung so it’s called rat lung because the adults are now in the lung
03:18
in making eggs shedding out in the rat poop to be eaten by the slug going through obligatory cycles then humans inadvertently eat the slug and we become the part of the wrath or we become the uh cycle that the rat should be when it passes through the rat brain it passes quietly because rat is used to this parasite in the brain uh when it passes through our brain we attack it ferociously and in the collateral damage we cause horrible meningitis now hawaii has always had this in our snails but there
03:58
has recently been i recently maybe 15 years now a very very invasive snare or [ __ ] a semi slug and it kind of dominated east hawaii quickly spread to west hawaii in the blink of an eye and has come to hana and so this slug it’s peri-domiciliary it likes human habitat either eat your cat food it’ll eat your dog food climb all over your walls it’s not shy to come into your house dropping from the ceiling and very very invasive and so we’ve had cases where the humans inadvertently got
04:34
the slug yeah the small the baby parts and it has caused these horrible horrible diseases some people have died a lot of people are permanently brain damaged any part of the brain is fair game because it’s a massive meningitis and so in east hawaii uh it’s really flared up for the last five years and they have these support groups to try to get all the people together uh once a week by phone or in visitation and i’ve gone to some of those support groups and it’s very very depressing
05:12
because kind of like the damage you’re left with after a year you’re not really going to get better some people can’t think straight some people their sensation is off the windows and you scream you feel like you’re burning they obviously can’t drive they’ve lost their jobs these are hard powered people and they take out the spouse the spouse has to care for them so you kind of alter two lives okay and it’s a horrible thing and lo and behold it spread uh a couple years ago to
05:43
the west side of hawaii and i thought wow you know someday or slowly it’ll spread and i got a call from the coffee pickers they said well we know you can eat the slug and get it up into your brain but can it pierce blood so what are we talking about here he said well we reach up to pick a coffee we pull down what we think are leaves or beans and it’s full of it’s a slug he said that’s impossible it wasn’t there last year well it’s there now and their hands have little cuts and
06:14
they’re worried that the parasite might come in so you know it had spread that quickly up into the kohala coast and so when i was in hawaii big island for the international conference you know they said oh we gotta expand the expand the support group i thought it was just east hawaii i said no no no no a lot of new cases coming out of kohala and kokona and all that worldwide this is a pandemic just a slow one okay the rats are spreading it into any local slug so it spread into san diego new orleans
06:48
texas you get the reports coming out of the east coast the rats take it that’s local slugs spread it and the sentinel like who’s going to get it first that you see it in puppies so all the veterinarians are in missouri all the same ways i say oh you see the puppy the parallel paralysis crawling using the hind legs and it is just phenomenal almost it’s very difficult to treat not too hard to diagnose but once you see it a little late huh so our job on maui was to put up barriers so the slugs
07:26
don’t crawl into our greens i think we could bury our orchards too so the slug will climb up into banana trees proprietary but mostly it’s greens kale lettuce a lot of stuff you’re supposed to eat all that stuff you’re supposed to eat all that stuff you’re supposed to eat okay yeah i said that but in hawaii they said well just tell people be careful yeah yeah sure you know how small these things are and by the way this aggressive slug the semi slug when they looked at it i think
07:59
78 are carrying the parasite and you don’t need big doses to to affect your brain permanently so our job was to set up the barriers so two years ago we set up our lab we brought in the aggressive slug whoa from from hana because it’s in hana and by god don’t let that get out in wailuku yeah well we didn’t it’s in our it’s in our lab and we tried all kinds of things copper broken glass oil salt of course salt works but every time it rains you’re going to re-salt your border so
08:32
we put up our electric fence hey look i have some sitting around my this is not staged let’s put up this electric fence what’s that man this is made in china it’s plastic and stainless steel bands 25 cents a yard hey another 25 cents for shipment and you connect it to a six volt battery six volt plus minus plus minus so you have three chances to shock it what are the what’s the length of the six volts will handle what kind of length of uh that’s a very good question jason that
09:10
was phase two for the stem cell kids to tell me what voltage drops i conservatively think we can a six volt can handle one acre that’s 200 200 200 200. don’t don’t say it but according to my calculations they can handle 10 acres but a lot of guys say come on dang just put a photovoltaic thing to put a pulse every six volt fine okay so you electrify it and the slugs they have to cross and they’ll get shocked and it will repel them we saw this in the lab we took it to the field up in
09:48
kula we’ve been up there maybe six months with the cooler community association we put it around their lettuce and the farmers are happy because the lettuce isn’t damaged by any slug of course they know that the real thing is the health issue so they are i’ll be cool we don’t have the aggressive slug but we can stop any slug so far of course we’ll take it to hana and the big island next quite interesting this thing was developed by china in their escargot farms to keep the valuable escargot from climbing out
10:24
so they touch two things they get shocked and they fall back check this out jason you love this they told us never connected to anything higher than six vote like don’t put it into our vote and the people in hawaii said no no we want to kill them we don’t want to just shock them you do that and of course you see what happens right now the shock is so bad they get paralyzed and then they start bridging on each other’s bodies okay the bodies after a while it dries and it’s not conductive
10:58
like walking over the moat hey walking over the bodies yeah and when you see these areas and these are invasive slugs they’re like waves you can’t have them crawling on each of their bodies so they just kind of fall back down outside and the good thing is a lot of people said yeah you got to kill them no the frosting on the cake is when they get shocked slugs communicate by scent and taste along mucus trails okay so when they put on a mucus trail it either means sex food or danger that’s
11:37
colonic i’m sure there’s all these subtle things you know but in general so when it gets irritated it retreats and it puts down mucus and a lot of slugs never challenge the electric fence again because the mucus keeps them at bay hey i mean you don’t want this thing shocking all night you wear out your battery then i do have to connect it can you create mucus trails from their mucus have you been able to harness their mucus to route them as soon as we saw it in the lab remember this was put in a lab they had to crawl
12:13
out yeah we put in seven at a time put it in indirect light to make a move they get shocked a few times then they put down a donut of mucus that they will not cross the uh called us in one week and said can we have dibs on the patented mucus i said no because you’re not part of the project and besides um you know we’re working just on the shock what if it rains and the mucus goes away whatever then somebody accuses us when we shock the slugs we shock compared to controls controls are crawling out
12:46
it’s not plugged in they’re just crawling out but when you electrified nothing crawls out we were accused that this electric barrier is not it why not nobody crossed the area oh after a while they put out mucus so it was a mucus i’m sorry but it was electricity that made a mucus mucus is a frosting on the cake if they ever get out through the mucus they’ll get shocked back i mean come on you get it right i mean it’s whatever it is and now it really really does work in the field
13:18
and everyone’s fascinated and i keep texting in our summary report we want to share and the international community is kind of watching this you know by internet like whoa good good hey ready to go to the big island you know to really get challenged we’re ready we’re ready well that’s a great that sounds like a great win uh uh who wanted the patent the state wanted the patent uh the the college and just like come on we barely got our feet off the ground you know and what can can’t it be public
13:53
domain wouldn’t it be aren’t there certain things that require that are um yeah that should be shared openly well really that’s what they claimed jason a lot of guys you know say i want to take the patent for the public so other people don’t pat in it but if i control it i can like make it cheap or give it up yeah that’s what they say so when there’s you know like can you sign here that you’ll never make more than five cents you know per kilometer i mean really oh well
14:27
well no that’s just not the norm well well then i’m sorry but so it’s called the self-defense pattern we take it to protect the public no you know people said well why don’t i take the patent it’s a lot of humbug and a lot of trouble okay besides i really don’t think you could patrick them this was the chinese thing to keep slugs in they’re just using it to keep slugs out uh there’s so many things you could talk about when you say chinese makes me think of early in this year
14:58
when i saw this video of dr nanshan zhang who was a big deal doctor there in china talking about talking at a european respiration society conference online talking about how hydrogen and oxygen mix that machine behind me is a the chinese model there’s a guy in kula making them i think i shared with you but and they’re having great success reducing inflammation alveoli and it doesn’t get shared how are you able to get tech in all this time is technology still being shared why would somebody be accusing you of
15:37
stuff i mean i’m like always wondering where what’s the uh instigation to stop free flow of important information or controlling patents to me it’s all it’s unclear whether it’s a one force or it’s just a nature of humans in that position i don’t know well uh what happens is you get guys in government like me i’ve been in government 44 years and we don’t make too much you know and okay and after 40 years you look at the guys in private industry and say oh this guy
16:14
six figures eight figures you know they’re on the patents so you think why not me well typically the government folks have been under this kind of mantra if you do a good job in government and maybe sometimes bend the rules in our favor but just do good science as soon as you get out of government we can’t hire you for a year or two years because that looks like collusion right well just sit tight for two years when we hire you on three and four man i don’t make up more than that so
16:43
repeatedly i come from the walter reed institute of research the army research some really good guys powerful scientists they were lured away by industry as soon as they reached their 20 years and like when i reached my 20 years i came here one government job to another and you know after a while my wife said isn’t this enough i mean are you going for the big bucks or something i have no idea uh some people they can’t possibly spend what they’ve got but it’s just a game you know who got
17:16
the most we all die we all die and give it all back after after awesome it always amazes me but uh do you think people are starting to learn this a little more more cooperation yeah it’s very confusing here when i see like the thing about the second test you know the thing about the pulvet yes people come in and then three days later if they want and we give them a food coupon to make to give them a chance to take a second test why didn’t we make everyone take a second test if we know that
17:53
because there’s two kinds of people who get the second test first question is if i get the second test are you going to act on it if it’s positive i’ve got to stay in isolation for 10 days and all the people with me who traveled with me they got to go into quarantine and their quarantine star starts the 14 day corn team starts the last day that i am infectious so let’s say you pick me up and i was symptomatic two days ago well i got eight more days and on day seven that’s when the other guys
18:32
with me start their 14 days in quarantine medical point you ruined their vacation yeah okay so who’s going to come for the test guys who are staying here anyway returning residents yeah 14 days i’m here anyway i was going to live here or writers you know they come in for six months yeah okay free i don’t mind if i have to stay away i want to be away anyway so the guys who aren’t going to be here um they’re not going to get tested so why wouldn’t that be changed by a strong leader
19:08
mayor you mean to make them get tested yeah oh because now destroy tourism aren’t we trying to oh yeah yeah yeah wait who’s gonna well in big island yeah it was mandatory it was mandatory for a second test on arrival and you think well they’re not self-selecting it’s mandatory they’re self-selecting by not going to the big island okay now maybe there’s a niche where you get all the writers who don’t mind being tested they’re going to be six months but now you’re stuck with that niche
19:42
visitor population if that niche is large enough you can survive like kawhi oh we take the writers man the poets who are going to be here anyway that’s good maui come on we take the big weddings you know four days or four days hugging kissing goodbye we don’t have that kind of niche i guess we could promote it well and but you know and i know that our moves toward aggressive self-sustainability involving food security involving creation of diversifying of our industry educate people to be dealing
20:19
online and be competitive globally why aren’t these things being like put up there and be our uh i don’t know because maybe because that what is immediately in front of our face that can pass the most was tourism and if you say you’re asking me to give up something immediate for it is true what you say is better sustainable it’s better for everything i feel better yeah but i quickly look at what’s immediately here and i go for that short term i mean it’s like the short term versus long term right
20:55
so you’ve been long term at what you’re doing do you progress through this that made through the long term i’ve been on what i’m doing for a long time yeah right that’s why i won’t give up this no matter what coverage we have i mean this keeps me going and we keep getting positive results and i got students now and they’re kind of on it there’s one more thing i should talk about though that’s even bigger okay hawaii we are obligated to replace all our cesspools
21:26
we have 70 000 cesspools and the alternative the viable alternative is the septic tank the septic tank come on costs 35 to 45 000 if you can get the backhoe into these old close buildings to dig the septic tank okay but that’s what we had to do and we were so late in doing this we were supposed to do this eight years ago they started finding people who’s finding them the department of health well it’s okay jason because we find them get the money and give them back the money to put in the septic tank
22:04
okay so you know it’s okay we’re just kicking your butt to put it in seventy thousand septic cesspools times what do you wanna say thirty five thousand dollars i can’t that’s like two billion twenty billion okay fine meanwhile parallel to all these hearings uh maui’s got a bunch too our cesspools are immediately polluting the downstream water in makawan when they drill a well you’re getting too much pollutants nitrates okay parenthetically that injection well issue of lahaina
22:44
that went to the u.s supreme court that was an issue of nitrates from the human sewage damage too much nitrates killing the reef and it was ruled by the supreme court yeah we don’t care what old approval you had we don’t care if you spread it out we don’t care if it puts here and comes out there you’re the problem and it’s true i mean come on you’re killing the reef or the near reef right so the cesspool issue is worth not to 2.2 billion dollars one time 2.2 billion to the state the injection well and
23:22
killing the reef is worth another 2.2 billion because what’s your solution jason to the injection walls run that damp you know the sewage drop off like two miles out hoping to dilute it so you don’t cure kill the near reef okay i get it lo and behold here comes an alternative solution suggested by the um alternate lifestyle guides on the big island we went to the hearings on the bigger you go hey what about the compost toilet man the nitrates it’s from human waste it doesn’t get into the ground water
23:57
it doesn’t get into the ocean nitrates in water fresh water that you plan to drink or ocean that your reefs growing it shouldn’t be there nitrates belong on the soil and then it can go up to the air it’s into like co2 you don’t put in the air that’s global warming but nitrogen into belongs in the air okay so you just gotta put it on sale soil and the bacteria will convert it to go up in the air so just don’t put it in the water so the composting guy says oh we got this man
24:30
we just all remember half the nitrogen from urine right urine feces urine feces okay just go put it out in the yard and we thought well that’s cheap composting toilet about 700 bucks just put it there man i put one right in your house in an hour yeah but you got to clean out the compost material you put in the material sawdust or mulch and you take it out well how often well like every three weeks well old guys say like well i can’t do this so the young guys were at the hearing on maui we will do it
25:02
we will save the planet and come out exchange the compost for all you old guys who don’t want to do this okay how long will that last i don’t know what the old guys i got jason i don’t want you young guys in my house oh oh well okay so that kind of was the right idea but we cannot change compost every three to four weeks along comes berkeley university of berkeley school of engineering lawrence livermore lab these guys lawrence livermore lab you will got a problem if they can’t fix it nobody can okay
25:40
sandia yeah i got you okay in india they have uh an alternative system they said don’t you dare call it composting toilet it’s not composting it’s worm and everyone says oh worms but these guys have set up a hundred thousand units in india mostly taking the human waste processing it so it’s germ free cholera shigella typhoid fever and they notice when they treat it like that it’s also drops the nitrate level that’s the one we want they take it to stanford takes it to haiti to put it in
26:17
and it’s it’s called the greening of haiti that stuff is germ free hey and then they put it out and it’s like black gold you watch the conversion of haiti into the greenness we want it not for the germs to remove the nitrate so they come here we give presentations and they’ve been here like two uh nine months and lo and behold they set up a system cost 1 200 to set up including labor including labor all elements are here on maui even the composting worms the gun from haiku they’re the organic composting
26:52
worms they do better in human waste jason these are berkeley guys man they set it up they put in a camera in that they can film at night to watch the worm population increase then they outflow it for research purpose we continue to outflow into the cesspool just in case it’s not good but of course we measured out flow and we are dropping the nitrate levels by 95 wow the septic tank it’s expensive but they only drop it maybe 50 percent not only is it better it’s cheaper uh-huh and now we can approach the upcountry
27:33
cesspools i forgot how many 20 000 because of the fresh water pollution because when you drill the well down on baldwin avenue comes out borderline high nitrates when we found that they could drop it low we thought can you approach the reef they can put in a big system to handle all the sewage waste that want they can put in a household system or a big system hundred thousand to four guys okay if you can treat the sewage collection in west maui then you continue to put it in the ocean but you have removed
28:08
enough of the nitrate how much nitrate you got to remove for drinking water you got to get down to 10 units per ml or whatever 10 unit brown to to to now ocean every creature in the ocean it tolerates like humans maybe 10 10 per ml but for the reef you better get down to 0.1 whoa but can they do it so here we are we’re dropping it very low i mean low enough to drink but for the reef so lo and behold we bring on uh what you call researchers from uh um uh maui and lo and behold out of the blue
28:57
helping us run these samples is a phd recently minted phd local girl texas a m comes back he comes right there all right all set to contribute but with the science they test all the levels of all the contaminants of their filter berkeley guys love her and she’s new and the chancellor louie goes yeah yeah yeah we got andrea andrea we got andrea she’s kind of new you know we’re forming the department of oceanography i said oh so we have to address the reef he goes well no anything she does water
29:35
too help her address the drinking water first but it’s the same pollutant then maybe we can adjust the reef this is like god smiled on us jason she before we contacted her four months ago to help was measuring the nitrate pollution of lahaina because with the drop in the covet visitors i mean dropping visitors the pollution dropped 60 the nitrate pollution dropped 60 percent well is that enough to control it on the reef well it depends on the currents dilution right you drop the amount you put in you
30:16
dilute it so she’s watching these levels you know the drop in the amount plus the the the the current she’s measuring it with her team lo and behold we come on board said hey we can really drop that want to drop it some more so now it’s kind of fascinating with our drop or berkeley’s drop or whatever it’s us berkeley and her representing the college maybe we can get that level so that it’s diluted enough to solve the reef issues and it’s not just here it’s a big island reality
30:51
hilo bay and all that stuff well you know that’s why i always say you know we as a self-sustainable model with guys like you and this idea of wanting to be are an example to the world i don’t mean to change the subject because i’m looking we got maybe playing you’re right i think i’m looking and thinking someone dialed in they’re going to think i’m going to talk only about covert let’s give covert a fair fair look um i gave it a you know i could have interviewed last week but i thought
31:21
let’s let lanai develop and let’s see the tourists here a little longer before i have dr pang on now we are what 10 days 12 15 since youtubers are back and then the lanai thing what’s your hit on all that’s happening here in maui okay when people open to tourism like we open to tourism we watch alaska and we watch tahiti and you really start to see the spike about three or four weeks in now we’ve been out two weeks yeah because we did october 15th right so we’re really expecting some
32:01
rises in this whole thing about this coming week okay and about five or six weeks in you see such high uncontrollable levels you just want to hit yourself in the head to say what have we done what have we done lanai you never quite know the tourist load on lanai they have people flying into these hotels i mean i don’t think that’s local people she’s never quite sure who these people are and how many and how long they stay obviously it was brought in by visitors okay to lanai right and then it grew in the local community
32:45
but that’s what they see in td i follow tahiti glycosis other people follow alaska but once it comes in there’s an explosive thing into your community about week four or five years still so it’s still too young to call so well but jason we’re seeing some stuff we’re seeing stuff the the visitors who come in they’re testing positive you know they come in with a pending result oh look the results back oh i’m positive they’re taxing our quarantine sites okay and not only is it them the
33:20
positive case but all these guys traveling with you how many are there three oh you gotta quarantine 14 days from the time that this time yeah the buy vacation can you send them back you can’t even send them back you cannot send them back because they’re medical isolation and quarantine if it was a travel quarantine like you didn’t have a test get back go home you didn’t get a task but if it’s positive or you’re really exposed no sending back until you pass your time how do we protect ourselves
33:54
what do we do well we we and kawhi and big island and oahu are seeing a lot people positive on our shores and so they’re going to appeal i think they already did to the governor can you change it so that you got to have a negative test when you come in not a pending test too many pending tests are turning positive now in order to get a negative test he had to extend the time give you a little more time to get the result so instead of getting the sample three days before you come they thought how about five days before
34:27
you come well the farther you push back the sample i mean take an extreme measure hey jason i got a test two months before i came that doesn’t mean anything in the subsequent two months you got infected up the azus but in general the farther you push the test back the less value it has so you know i’m forever trying to say well three days is kind of short you want to push it to five how about four i didn’t hear anybody say four you know so okay so what are we going to do here when this
35:00
explodes or if it explodes with and we don’t have the ability to hold the quarantine people we are being taxed at the hospital people’s home care is not enough you know i don’t know what do we do well here when they open to tourism it’s come on let’s open deterred and we’re dying fine let’s open but why does the faucet have to be fully open and fully shut can we like turn it down a bit so we set up a study to find out how many guys are really bringing it in despite that one pre-travel test we know you got
35:37
inoculated exposed after you got the test or a couple days before where you couldn’t have picked it up anyway so we set up a departure study on departure we won’t mess with your travel plans because on the departure from maui i would get a test i’ll get the result the next day i’ll phone it to you or i’ll put it anonymously by code i need to know how many people are infected i will not mess with your travel plans but if you’re positive uh maybe tell the hotel you state that there was a case
36:09
it wasn’t jason it was case number 1729 they were exposed okay i need to know how many positive guys are breaking through the system we calculate that if it’s 10 a day we’ll do a sample and try to see if we get 10 a day i don’t think maui can withstand 10 a day so where do we go i mean well i’m going to ask them to titrate it down if if 2000 visitors a day bring in 10 a day i’m gonna ask you fix this like turn down the tap before covid we were getting 8 000 a day what like i said man if it’s too much
36:53
can you please close the top oh no this is all or none that was never on the table if you told me it was all or none i would have said i then i insist on another second test while you’re here but it’s all kind of vague we’ll deal with it when we see it okay well now that you know that and you’ve made this really publicly clear what doesn’t that uh give our mayor or gov governor whoever you haven’t uh paused to say hey i want to get ahead of this put something in why what’s the delay
37:28
here i think they’re they’re quite sincere they said well then do the study get your study going yeah yeah yeah i mean i will get it going it took a while we’re the last study to get going but we have a good volunteer rate i mean think if i did a study on day five not on departure and i i was going to do it and i was going to keep the results confidential in your little diary and you turn it over to me as you leave then i get participation but people said no no no no if you got a test you got to act on it whether no
37:59
one’s going to volunteer for the study okay well then we’re making mandatory well no one’s gonna come here you gotta you gotta get a representative sample of the people who come here and if shouldn’t we be doing the safe testing until we’re done with the the uh example why are we going for nothing until you find results no no we do have something yeah we have a pre-travel test one pre-travel test some people say that’s pretty good some people say it’s pretty good but not
38:31
good enough not good enough and it depends on the absolute value jason if normally we take 8 000 a day before covet and you give me 1 000 i think i can handle that but now we’re approaching what one thousand five well counting the returning resident we’re approaching three thousand well i mean uh people said well then get going why don’t you go look do your study fine i will but we ran into like ethical issues yeah you took a test and you rigged it so you didn’t you didn’t tell it until the guy left on
39:05
the airplane why didn’t you do it earlier to warn the airplane well what if i wasn’t doing anything he’d get on the plane anyway so we had to clear it ethically with all these people ucla you know i don’t know man why are we waiting until you have to do a study whatever the ethics are why aren’t we implementing the safety measure before the study and then if the study finds that we can handle this then they respond why are we not the one because because for example what safety measure
39:41
would you like would you like a second test on island i was going to have three tests on ireland but knowing that you’re going to act on the result ruin people’s vacation nobody’s coming to maui and now you would say this works for the kind of guys who come to maui which is like one-tenth to market the people of maui those that whether they come or not are here well that’s the other argument the ones of us who are here that aren’t so dependent on tourism oh it’s easy for you to speak you know
40:18
you have food on the table but there’s this huge sector of society directly or indirectly right or wrong are tied to tourism can we all isn’t this the time when we all should step up and really implement the social programs to address those people and bring them into a whole new thing yeah but we got so behind the eight ball a lot of those social programs depend on taxing of the tourist industry we got no money even to support anymore i mean everyone’s broke hey even if i study jason i’m only
40:55
going to do 300 people and people are arguing well well how much is it going to cost 60 attacks can you make it like 40. they got so little money they can’t even invest in something that might save them a lot of money but jason i mean i kind of when they’re nickel and diming my test and i’m sitting to save them billions of dollars because of cesspool issues the rat lung barriers you know i just kind of shake my head you know i was like what i understand you’re nickel and diming because you’re broke or we’re broke
41:28
but come on guys you know if you want to invest for a good return and you don’t even have the money to make the investment wow how about that is the situation well you know how about all the people don’t have any money to pay the rent and the congress is wondering whether they should cut another check for a thousand dollars or unemployment other countries are keeping economies going by giving in dollars to all their people we are worried about destroying our currency balance of budget we wanted people left that’s like i
42:03
don’t get it i don’t know that’s why the the election results i mean you hate to get on the bandwagon but this in the last three hours or something when they declared biden the winner hey our covet control program was so up in the air like we got these guys helping the feds are bringing national guard and they go well the national guard contract against december 1st what it ends and i said no it doesn’t end it depends who gets elected and i i don’t want to like get on the bandwagon
42:35
but already trump was going to cut off his cover he doesn’t even believe in covent i was struggling to try to control it you know i just want to i i don’t love or hate the guy but a guy who insists on counting votes or recounting votes but cannot count covet cases wow you can count sometimes but not other times we were going down the tubes i mean he didn’t want to do testing because you might find more cases oh god we got to do testing well let’s bring out a test that’s not so sensitive
43:06
to show we’re doing testing but not finding cases what what there’s no organized or organized government thing about testing no organized government he’s fighting with these scientific guys i don’t love them myself but at least listen to them show me you listen to them quote their stuff before you disagree so it made a big deal two hours ago where at least bias said you know the path to the economy is controlling kobet it might not be all or none can we just open the economy a little bit while we
43:38
control covent i agree with that i mean it’s not first we gotta fix all the kovac then we open the economy no you can do it a little bit i mean here we did this then with this this this this this so i i’m glad that there’s someone like yourself who speaks out like when i hear uh the mayor saying no we don’t want to scare people we got to tell them the truth you know yeah no and thank you for being here and standing up for us didn’t we do this in the dengue days on maui when we discovered dengue in east maui
44:12
the tourist authority was furious stop scaring away the tourists with dengue and then once we kind of control that well let’s announce that we had it and you control that what then a bunch of tourists were furious after we controlled it i’m glad you controlled it dr peng but you didn’t tell us what was going on in these fun hey we don’t want to scare the tourists what i mean you know after a while when they find out you withhold things because of this they said what do you think we’re stupid
44:42
we understand just tell us what’s going on right i’m with you you know we’ve been talking an hour i’m i don’t your schedule is busy i hope we can do this again and give you a chance to share more because because why because whenever i speak to you i feel like we’re all getting educated on good things we’re doing i’m so glad that you have the spirit to bring out and still stay positive on what we’re doing and what we can do because i believe we can all handle and
45:09
solve this thing even the tourism thing i’d like to read the whole thing change the way we talk about responsibly shift our economy tourism doesn’t have to be the gigantic piece you know when josh green talked about taking one of the hotels and buying it so we could handle some of the housing problem we got to do something we got the space spaces already here let’s do something let’s do it and i’m glad that you like i say i’m glad there’s you standing here something’s going on i
45:42
expect you’re going to share it with us so we can all be part of helping the solution happen and that’s really beautiful yeah maybe we’ll do this in maybe 10 days because that’s when the crime might be and of course we’ll be having little different discussions but yeah it’s the big picture here well i’m glad to capture some of your time and uh you know you’re a hero to a lot of people you might find a few people think you’re a goat like you say everyone tell me same with me
46:14
i could go off on other subjects why i’m really uncomfortable what’s happening about homelessness nowhere to put homeless i got a friend who you know who’s now on molokai homeless can’t walk and there’s no help nowhere to be it’s like what the heck can’t we handle the basics in that area that’s another but the tax base is broke i mean until we yes we tied it to tourism now if we ever get out of this i hope people learn their lesson don’t tie it to tourism so much
46:46
because it might turn off one day or but is it also true that that’s the piece where i say okay if you see someone that’s hurting help them if you see something that’s going on don’t turn your back you have no money you you are there this is where the heart comes in that’s why i’m like i say you’re in the department of health but i feel like you’re an advocate for the people and i know you make positions many times independent of being in government thank you for that
47:14
and thank you for all that you’re really doing for all of us okay thank you lauren pang from the department of health here in maui and um beautiful and wonderful man all you out there in the sin about 10 days we’re going to do another one of these so 10 days is good and um we’ll see where we’re at and we’re all obviously praying for the best keep wearing your mask and do all the responsible things okay take care thanks celebrate a little bit today at least we got somebody in charge those are great
47:53
things and i was going to talk to you about monsanto and bear now and what they’re doing and what you’ve seen there and nrf2 gene receptors we got fun to talk about but yes i say fun those are uh i’m into solutions i’m not really one who’s into focusing on the problems i see solutions and that’s what’s so great about you you’re constantly looking to find a way to make it right which is great thank you okay the solutions aren’t that hard i mean they’re not that hard okay
48:28
especially when we have the will yes okay thank you everyone aloha bye you
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