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Jason with Dr. Lorrin Pang, Director of Dept. of Health on Maui in 2007 speaking about Depleted Uranium.
Summary & Transcript
Depleted Uranium and Public Health Concerns
- [00:03 → 03:04]
The video opens with music and an introduction by the host, welcoming Dr. Lorrin Pang, a recognized expert from the Hawaii Department of Health. Dr. Pang clarifies that he is speaking as a private citizen, not representing the department or any official capacity. The discussion is framed as an effort to inform the public on important health issues, highlighting Dr. Pang’s long-standing involvement in public health advocacy. - [03:04 → 07:11]
The host briefly recaps Dr. Pang’s background, noting his contributions to public health, including previous discussions on genetically modified organisms (GMOs). Dr. Pang introduces the topic of depleted uranium (DU), explaining that although he is speaking as a private citizen, his extensive experience in military preventive medicine and consulting for the World Health Organization qualifies him to discuss the issue. He stresses the importance of distinguishing his personal views from official department policy. - [07:11 → 10:53]
Dr. Pang provides a technical background on depleted uranium:- Uranium isotopes: Natural uranium contains isotopes 234, 235, and 238. The isotope 235 is used in nuclear reactors due to its radioactivity.
- Depleted uranium (DU): This is primarily uranium-238, leftover after 235 is concentrated for nuclear fuel; it is less radioactive (“depleted”).
- Military use: DU’s high density and pyrophoric nature make it effective for armor-piercing munitions. When a DU projectile strikes metal, it can ignite and burn at very high temperatures, destroying targets like tanks without needing explosives.
- DU is also used in armor plating itself due to its density.
- [10:53 → 14:22]
Dr. Pang explains the radiological and chemical properties of DU:- Radioactivity: DU emits alpha particles which are large, highly energetic but cannot penetrate skin or even paper, making external exposure relatively safe.
- Internal exposure risks: If DU particles are inhaled or ingested, alpha particles directly damage cells internally, posing significant health risks.
- Burning DU produces uranium oxides, which aerosolize and can be inhaled as fine particles, potentially traveling miles from impact sites.
- These aerosols are chemically toxic heavy metals and radioactive, with their toxicity depending on chemical form and solubility.
- [14:22 → 19:53]
Dr. Pang elaborates on the forms of uranium exposure and their toxicity:- Uranium oxides (ceramics/glass-like particles): Insoluble, can remain in lungs for decades (up to 70 years), potentially entering the lymphatic system and spreading through the body.
- Metallic uranium fragments: More soluble and can be excreted in urine.
- Nanoparticles: Extremely small molecular forms with unpredictable and poorly understood toxicities; these particles can cross biological barriers such as the blood-brain barrier, raising concerns about neurological effects.
- Chemical toxicity of uranium compounds parallels concerns about other heavy metals like mercury.
- [19:53 → 25:09]
Distribution of inhaled DU particles explains potential health effects beyond the lungs, including neurological, musculoskeletal, and birth defects—symptoms seen in Gulf War Syndrome among veterans.- Studies show DU particles can be detected in urine years after exposure, particularly among Iraqi civilians and Gulf War veterans.
- The 24-hour urine collection test is a sensitive method to detect DU exposure.
- Military screening of veterans typically only detects DU in those with embedded shrapnel, missing many cases of internal exposure through inhalation.
- [25:09 → 29:01]
Hawaii’s potential exposure to DU is discussed:- Officially, the military denies firing DU munitions on Hawaiian ranges, but casings containing DU have been found.
- Legislative efforts to monitor and test soil and personnel exposed to DU in Hawaii have faced opposition and restrictions, including limiting sampling to 500 yards outside military installations, which Dr. Pang argues is insufficient given the spread of aerosolized particles.
- Dr. Pang emphasizes that military environmental policy should follow the most stringent applicable rules, including state laws requiring sampling at impact sites, and that the military should bear the cost of such monitoring.
- [29:01 → 32:41]
Dr. Pang compares the DU issue to past environmental contamination cases such as trichloroethylene (TCE) leaks at military bases, where the military cooperated in cleanup and monitoring.- He expresses concern that DU contamination and its health effects are not being adequately addressed or monitored.
- The potential consequences include widespread health crises, birth defects, neurological damage, and chronic illnesses, similar to Gulf War Syndrome.
- Some retired military officers allege cover-ups and malicious withholding of information regarding DU toxicity and exposure risks.
- Dr. Pang stresses the need for objective investigation and transparency, warning that ignoring the issue could lead to a worsening public health disaster.
- [32:41 → 38:48]
The challenges facing veterans affected by DU exposure are highlighted:- Many veterans suffer from vague but debilitating symptoms classified as Gulf War Syndrome.
- Treatment and recognition of these conditions are hampered by bureaucratic obstacles, including gatekeeping, long wait times, and poor medical care infrastructure, exemplified by the troubled history of Walter Reed medical facilities.
- The public and political pressure is increasing for more sensitive DU exposure testing and improved veteran healthcare.
- [38:48 → 41:42]
Dr. Pang urges public support for legislative efforts to monitor DU exposure in Hawaii and beyond:- The bill to allow soil sampling at target impact sites has passed the House and is pending in the Senate.
- He warns that military resistance to such measures is partly due to fear of liability and the cost of cleanup or compensation.
- The situation is compared to tobacco-related lawsuits, where awareness of harm led to legal accountability.
- Dr. Pang calls for courage and transparency in addressing DU contamination, emphasizing that ignoring the problem will only exacerbate health impacts.
- [41:42 → End]
The video closes with final remarks encouraging continued public vigilance and awareness about depleted uranium and its potential health effects. Dr. Pang commits to providing updates as the legislative process unfolds and monitoring efforts advance.
Key Insights and Terms
| Term | Definition/Explanation |
|---|---|
| Depleted Uranium (DU) | Uranium primarily composed of isotope 238, leftover after enrichment of uranium-235 for reactors. Used in military armor-piercing munitions due to high density and pyrophoric properties. |
| Alpha particles | Highly energetic, large radioactive particles emitted by uranium that cannot penetrate skin but are harmful if internalized. |
| Uranium oxides | Chemical compounds formed when DU burns, aerosolizes into fine particles that can be inhaled and persist in the body. |
| Nanoparticles | Extremely small particles at molecular scale; uranium nanoparticles may have unpredictable toxicities and can cross body barriers. |
| Gulf War Syndrome | A chronic multi-symptom disorder affecting Gulf War veterans, potentially linked to DU exposure and other environmental factors. |
| 24-hour urine test | Sensitive diagnostic test to detect uranium exposure by measuring uranium excretion in urine over a full day. |
Timeline Table: Key Events and Developments
| Timeframe | Event/Development |
|---|---|
| 1982 | Military begins fielding DU munitions (Dr. Pang recalls first demonstrations). |
| 1985 – Present | Dr. Pang serves as WHO consultant and military preventive medicine officer with environmental health responsibilities. |
| 1991 (First Gulf War) | Extensive use of DU munitions; subsequent health monitoring of veterans begins. |
| 2000s – Present | Detection of DU particles in urine of Iraqi civilians years after exposure; Gulf War Syndrome recognized. |
| Recent Years | Discovery of DU casings in Hawaii; legislative attempts to monitor soil and personnel exposure. |
| Current | Ongoing legislative efforts in Hawaii to mandate DU testing at military impact sites; military resistance encountered. |
Recommendations and Public Actions
- Support legislative bills allowing soil and environmental sampling at DU target impact sites in Hawaii.
- Advocate for comprehensive DU exposure testing for veterans, National Guard personnel, and civilians potentially exposed.
- Raise public awareness of DU’s health risks and the importance of objective, transparent investigation.
- Encourage accountability and cleanup efforts by military and government agencies following environmental contamination precedents.
Conclusion
This video presents a detailed, expert-informed discussion of depleted uranium’s military use, chemical and radiological risks, and potential public health implications, particularly for Hawaii. Dr. Lauren Pang emphasizes the need for public awareness, legislative action, and transparent scientific inquiry to prevent a worsening health crisis linked to DU exposure. The conversation highlights the complexity of DU toxicity, the challenges of detection and monitoring, and the political and institutional barriers to addressing this issue comprehensively.
Transcript
00:03
[Music] [Music] don’t let [Music] [Applause] there is sunshine [Music] then [Music] don’t let me down [Music] your mother your father your sister and brother there is love in this family pick yourself up and get on your feet [Music] don’t let me down [Music] is [Music] me down [Music] styling [Applause] [Music] [Applause] aloha welcome to another mama presents today i have uh someone you’ve seen here before dr lauren pang from the state of hawaii department of health thank you for joining me here on
03:04
the show you’re welcome today i will speak as a private citizen because this might not be the position of the department of health i was just going to announce officially um although i know you in your official official capacities as a private citizen you have many things that are outside your realm of jurisdiction or things that you can speak to and about correct and so uh very clear that you’re speaking as a private citizen but they don’t uh they’re not outside the realm of what i
03:35
used to do before i took this job well let me just quickly refresh you the audience recollection here many of you know dr pang because he’s been a strong advocate of different public health issues over the time but most recently there were conversations about genetically modified organisms and we did a couple of shows and rebuttals and things to give the public a chance to get up close and personal on a very important issue and um we’ve been speaking over time and you know dr pang this is what he’s doing all the
04:15
time involved in things with health and has come upon strong opinions and things that he thinks the public needs to know and understand and that’s what prompted this getting together today and i’m very happy to be here with you if there’s anything that you need of our public everyone out here who watches we want your involvement so if there’s anything uh that’s said here today that you want to get in touch with dr pang because the subjects we’re talking about are not state you can surely get together
04:50
answers through me at the maui arts and music association but also if you want to put up numbers at the end or whatever you’re welcome okay that’s fine so what prompted this this show why are we together okay this is a show that i was asked to look into a certain topic and the more i studied it the more shocked i was and i think it’s time to begin to inform the public some things some areas of concern okay kind of like genetically modified crops it’s not really clear what’s going on
05:24
but it’s best to inform the public what we know or what we don’t know or where we stand on that so there’s another issue now that has surfaced and that is depleted uranium now let me just give you a little bit background please before i speak i once again remember i do this as a private citizen but you might say well in your former work what qualifies you me to speak what was your formal word okay my former work i’ve been a consultant to the world health organization since 1985 an active consultant i
06:03
have done many many dozens of missions for them i’ve looked at drugs vaccines and diagnostics the safety and the efficacy remember that i was looking at safety things i was also at the time active duty i retired after 20 years mostly working for walter reed army institute of research i have the research and development award they only give one a year for 1987 for work clinical work i had done with them i was elected last year as one of america’s best doctors to give this to three percent of the doctors
06:36
in this field and this my field happens to be preventive medicine and finally because we will jump quickly to the military aspects of depleted uranium i was prevented medicine officer from 1987 to 1990 for the western command based out of tripler it was us army pacific and western command and if you say well what is the preventive medicine officer they’re the ones in charge of environmental programs and occupational health both in the military and when it seeps and spreads to state or other countries areas
07:11
the johnston island the outdoor the burn off of the chemical agents i was responsible for the occupational health and environmental safety of that so i have experience with the rules and i have experience with the mandates of who does what when the military or federal rules overlap with state or local jurisdictions okay so depleted uranium let me give you a little background i was asked to look at this about a year and a half ago and uh i think i looked at it on behalf of the maui peace maui coalition i
07:50
i don’t have an opinion one way or the other of a piece or not piece but this specific point was raised now if you try to use these arguments i’m going to give you in the next 20 minutes as to say that yes based on his arguments we need peace we should stop the war i’m not saying we should stop the war shouldn’t stop the war i’m just looking at a specific trying to get an objective view what’s going on here so that if we do continue the war uh i want you to be forewarned of the
08:22
consequences that might occur and if we do stop the war i want you to be forward of the things we might have to take care of in retrospect so in other words if we’re still fighting uh what things are going on that you’d like to see stopped yeah and if we stop what we’ve already done yes okay exactly so all right you want to be good try to be specific we’re talking about guys depleted uranium depleted uranium is the metal uranium after you’ve taken out the stuff you radio sorry uranium is in different
09:05
isotopes 234 235 to 38. the best isotope for nuclear reactors a lot of vision or fusion or the reaction is 235. so when you find natural uranium you want to concentrate the 235 and kind of throw away the 238 these are like different brands different isotopes different isotopes meaning technically different number of neutrons okay but ones that leads to different radio activities you want it to be radioactive to run your nuclear plant so you’re concentrating the 235 okay after you concentrate that you got this
09:45
kind of waste uranium the 238 they call it depleted depleted of the active substance is relatively depleted so you got all this depleted uranium piling up it’s relatively safe it’s not that radioactive anymore and it’s piling up all over the place stockyards and all because we’ve been generating uranium for reactors okay some people say what do we do with it other than the fact it’s piling up can’t burn it can’t destroy it pretty much well technically we could have just
10:14
buried it again i guess but meanwhile it’s piling up then there was a discovery that uranium this metal itself regardless of the isotope uranium is very very heavy and when fired at high speed that uranium slug which say is about maybe sometimes it’s as big as this pencils it’s a slug it’s a rod when that hits metal the weight will pierce the metal and it has another property on impact that friction is enough to ignite the uranium and it explodes and burns at very very high temperatures
10:53
spontaneously so if you want to take out a tank you don’t have to fire an explosive into the tank you just fire a uranium rod pierces the tank and blows up and you have movies of this i first saw that demo remember i’m retired military in 1982 and they brought these things online if you want to kill a person you can still use lead you don’t have to ignite uranium to kill the person but specifically for armor piercing they use uranium slugs and rods okay now we’ll also use it in the armor
11:29
itself because if the thing is so dense well maybe we should put it in armor so now you have uranium against uranium but when fired at high velocity once again when fired out and when impact it burns explosively at high temperatures okay and it’s in many many of the munitions the first gulf war they used lots of this all right now what that slug that metal is depleted uranium now there’s accusations that they have not depleted it totally that they’re using natural uranium which is still a little hotter
12:02
more radioactive forget that for now let’s just say you use depleted uranium although that’s controversial so what depleted uranium sitting alone as a door stop to me is not all that dangerous it’s depleted of its radioactivity even when it’s radioactive even uranium that’s hot it puts out what they call alpha particles so it’s different kind of radiation alpha particles are big they pack a lot of energy but they’re so big they’re stopped there’s alpha particles
12:36
can be blocked by something as thin as the sheet of paper it’s blocked by your skin so if i brought a chunk of uranium near you certainly depleted uranium it wouldn’t get into you it’s blocked by your skin and sometimes it doesn’t even transfer through the air that well because the air particles block it wow so outside the body things like uranium that emit alpha particles are not that dangerous but within the body if somehow you were to get uranium into your cells in your body it is the most dangerous form of
13:11
radiation because it’s up close right next to your cells or your chromosomes and it packs a wall up it has high energy alpha particles would be okay so i can’t get out because of the same rule going in going out right thick so once it’s in it’s in well once the radiation hits it does its damage once the uranium is in that’s debatable some uranium can be peed out it’s in your blood it’s soluble depends on the form it might not come out we’ll talk about that later okay but we do have this notion that
13:46
depleted uranium sometimes it’s safe as the door stop sometimes if i could put it in a form that could get into your body then it’s not safe it’s kind of like cigarettes you’re against cigarettes i’m not against cigarettes until you light them it’s as simple as that so when uranium is used as a weapon it burns and the toxicity of that is not the toxicity of that is not like du depleted uranium as a doorstop what happens when it burns we know that when we burn it experimentally or fueled observations
14:22
fifty percent of the weight seems to aerosolize and when it aerosolize it forms different compounds it combines burn means combined with oxygen it’s now called uranium oxides small particles sometimes it’s just uranium gas nonetheless it goes up into the air stuff you can breathe now how far does this plume of uranium aerosolize uranium go people have shown it goes dozens of miles there’s claims and i know there’s claims but when i check out the science behind this i’m not real sure
15:00
but some people claim it can drift from the mid east to england in the matter of week they say it can circle the globe in six weeks nonetheless it surely goes 10 to 12 miles the plume of this aerosol is stuff so now you have a plume no longer the doorstop that 50 that was heavy that broke into big chunks it’s kind of down on the ground it went down okay the other stuff is going when you breathe the other stuff what happens first of all you have radioactive particles now being internalized second of all
15:40
so maybe you could clear it if i breathe in stuff my body can clear it we have natural protection turns out that some forms of this aerosolized uranium it is not soluble it will not be clear for maybe 70 years if at all what forms are these they’re called the oxides when uranium it’s free as a little molecule it burns it combines with oxygen the lingo is called a ceramic a ceramic is stable the lingo is also called a glass so you have this uranium oxide molecules which you breathe get into your lung
16:26
and are not soluble they don’t clear they don’t clear they’re not reactive they don’t bind to liquids to get in your blood and peed out metallic uranium not oxides we are clear when a person gets a chunk of shrapnel in them we see urine coming out of uranium coming out in their urine so metallic stuff is solid bone clears there’s yet another form of uranium not oxide but metallic or small it’s called nanoparticles if you look up nanotechnology nano simply means on a molecular level
17:05
very very small there’s a whole science called nanotoxicity and we find that on very small particle levels many things not just uranium gold have some very very strange toxicities and very very strange properties for example a lump of gold at room temperature solid a very very thin nano layer one molecule thick behaves like a liquid gold is quite stable to put it to your teeth a chunk of it doesn’t react a nanoparticle of gold highly reactive toxicity is unknown nanotechnology which is new cutting edge
17:42
check out nanotoxicity look it up on wikipedia it is unknown fascinating and very active is that sort of like the homeopathy level that that kind of uh that we’re talking about it’s more bizarre than that really normally we are not exposed to molecular levels of chemicals except oxygen water sodium chloride we know how to handle these things but when you start to molecularize in the gas form heavy metals yeah uranium gold now we don’t molecularize gold then you’re asking for strange things so once again in summary
18:21
you have the oxides which we know bind and the not soluble held in the body you have the small particles of uranium on the nano level which go into the body react very differently and sometimes some people claim they’re not clear by the body ever okay these two things have chemical toxicity in and of their own chemical heavy metals remember mercury we’re worried about that yeah besides the chemical nature the chemistry will determine if it’s cleared by the body and where it goes does it stay in your
18:49
lung does it travel to your brain does it travel to your bladder that’s the chemistry of it don’t forget there’s always tied to this the radiation you have those alpha particles emitted up front and close into the tissues and the cells the worst form of radiation is now disseminated in your body depending on the toxicity i mean sorry depending on the chemical nature and where do these things go well we know that the oxides insoluble forms they seem to be picked up by the lymphatic system
19:24
that’s very interesting but it’s not the medical guys will tell yeah that makes sense things that aren’t dissolved are moved picked up by the cells of the lymph nodes and the lymph system in your body there’s the blood system there’s a lymph system kind of a old evolutionary system that circulates in your body too there’s limps all over to eliminated ways to eliminate things that are picked up like particles not waste so much waste is the blood system things that are soluble lymph system
20:28
it surely can if the gas the nanotoxicity diffuses all over the nanotoxicity just the molecular form has been shown to cross the blood brain vary everything so now we have quite unknown quite potentially toxic stuff being released in plumes blowing for tens of miles to be inhaled now so what’s the problem here well first of all i heard problems already there’s lots of accusations on the internet these kind of wild claims and it was my job to kind of find these people check out their credentials
21:08
so right now i’m going to quote a lot of the work of one of the world’s authority dr rosalie bertel she’s got the publication behind her she gives testimony before the united nations and all and i’m in correspondence with her and i quite believe what she says proved to me that these fumes and plumes are toxic that they spread the military position is that i’ve read the military’s position you remember i used to be the environmental officer for the pacific army command i know their position in those
21:45
days we didn’t deal with du but their position is du is a little bit dangerous because of the alpha particles but when we explode the tank the particles sink down they’re in that area and the rule is get out of 10 yard or maybe 20 yard radius because that area is hot okay their next position is the little particles might go a little farther than this distance i’m kind of summarizing it they do recognize that on impact some of the particles become friable small maybe they could be inhaled
22:23
so watch out okay how far does that bloom go well it’s heavy and it sits down so i haven’t been to the meetings but they have been meeting with department of health hawaii people and the position is that it settles down and if it doesn’t it’s in particle chunks that will settle down with no distance at all still less than a mile they didn’t tell me the distance but we nails work we have incidents where people were processing the eu they detect the plumes dozens of miles away had to shut down the um
22:55
the plant dr bertel’s work said that after the first gulf war the first gulf war they fought in to kuwait they retook kuwait they didn’t invade iraq then but downwind in iraq the civilians i guess they breed the fumes a lot of them nine years after the gulf war have depleted uranium particles detected in their urine the military has a screening process our gulf war veterans come back we sample their urine on a one shot test and we don’t see too much in fact the only time we see stuff in go
23:29
for veterans urine is if they have embedded shrapnel is there stuff in their lung you will not see stuff in their lung unless you do a 24 hour capture something more sensitive to pick up the smaller amounts that are long just because you see a small amount if you have to do such a long urine capture to see small amount does that mean you have a small amount in your body of course not it’s in your lung it’s insoluble so you got this big load in your lung a little bit is soluble that’s what you see in your urine if you
24:03
capture your urine 24 hours i want to upload the 48 dr bertel says 24 is enough it’s sensitive the iraqi citizens eight nine years after the gulf war show it in their urine so what we see in the urine is a marker of stuff you have in the lung especially nine years after the exposure now you could argue that well their exposure is right now how do you know it’s nine years ago we have people who haven’t been exposed for nine years they moved out of the area or the bulking conflict okay and this
24:36
this stuff was just published as the way to detect it now i’ve already told you how it spreads to the body and can create a whole bunch of strange symptoms yeah and this seems to be more and more as i look seems to be the explanation for the gulf war syndrome as you follow the gulf war veterans i believe there’s 800 000 a third of them now have these syndromes funny vague chronic syndromes and they can’t seem to pin down the cause that doesn’t mean the syndrome isn’t real but this has got to be a look at we
25:09
have a new test the 24-hour urine let’s look at it what does that have to do with hawaii hawaii they claim they never use gu on the firing ranges then last year people found the casings i think it’s called davy crockett casing or something they have the casings of the eu and so they confronted the military and said hey did you do you or not and i don’t know if the military knew or didn’t know but they said well to the best of our knowledge we didn’t and so there’s a bill now to say well
25:38
let’s go see let’s go sample the target areas where they would tank their oceans and sample the soil well apparently uh military blocking it well there were you know four bills to monitor hawaii national guard who returned you know medical side to go sample the soil and i guess all four bills got blocked no sorry three the final bill that’s when they called me i didn’t know you guys were putting forth bills the final bill says we allow sampling but you can’t get closer than 500 yards to a
26:11
military installation i just told you when a bomb goes off they tell you to run away 10 yards maybe 30 yards 500 yards you’re not even at the that’s the boundary of the military installation i want to move it to the target site where the impact occurred what you find at the target site is a marker that a plume went up whatever you find at the target site remember it’s just a marker i’m not afraid of what’s at the target site but it does mean a plume has gone up and now let’s talk about jurisdiction and
26:44
laws when i was with the army preventive medicine officer we would follow the most stringent environmental issues we would follow the most stringent roles state federal military or country of jurisdiction if we operate in thailand whichever is more stringent so if the state were to pass a law that says we will sample at your target site at the impact site none of this 500 yards from the boundary gee that’s more stringent that’s the more sensitive deaths and i hope and expect the military
27:20
to follow that rule now i think the only loophole they could say we don’t agree is maybe there’s some kind of homeland security rule which overrides this none that i know of i’ll just check this up there’s a military officer who was retired because of disability his name is doug rocky and he knows he wrote the rules we don’t see any kind of that inclusion on this one not only are you supposed to follow the most stringent rule but the military is supposed to pay for it okay the uh has the technical capacity to do
27:56
the tests on soil to see if uranium du was used the implications are that the plume went into state air you know blew off the installation breathed by state civilians and so we should look i’m not saying it happened but we should look is there some kind of precedent for this but when i was at with the army in 1987 some of you who are around that remember something called tce trichloroethylene these were lubricants somehow got into our groundwater carcinogenic we don’t know how it occurred i think it was on
28:34
schofield barracks maybe the motor pool in the second world war leaked it into the ground nonetheless we follow the rules it’s going into state aquifer and we paid for the sampling and the cleanup we put in million dollar filters to filter it out of the water the drinking water things like that we do we had an incinerator a tripler you have state rules for emissions we follow safe roads and we work with the department of health to come on and do it and of course we pay for the monitoring and pay
29:01
for the modifications so i’m not asking for anything different right what is different on this case is that if people in hawaii start to look and start to wonder and worry um aren’t other people gonna look too like the iraqi civilians isn’t the national guard going to say hey you know all that gulf war syndrome we have can you do the sensitive 24 hour screening test to see if it’s related to inhaled insoluble uranium oxides if it was me i would ask so i i really did approach this issue as
29:44
out of ignorance people didn’t know they didn’t know they didn’t know there are some people in the military who have retired on disability they claim they’re ill because of depleting uranium this was the officer who studied it he was the health radiation officer he wrote the manual he claimed it’s not ignorance he claims it’s cover-up and maliciousness he claims that now i haven’t quite agreed or checked or i don’t know him well enough to know his credibility but they claim that that
30:19
why would you cover this up because if it is that dangerous and you’re going to fight a war you have to resort to other kind of munitions that don’t damage the environment don’t blow downwind to the civilians right you remember the first gulf war they burned the oil fields and there was kind of an epa outbreak polluting their eggs let’s suspend the worldwide put out those oil fields kind of same thing you’d have to find alternate munitions you’d have to if you’re going to fight
30:49
the war you’d have to find alternative classical munitions you’d have to um screen people who were exposed like at least the gulf war veterans you’d have to screen civilians in the areas we’ve had doctors come out of the balkans who came to maui to claim that their birth rates are very strange and their defects in the babies are horrendous and unusual then you’d have to compensate uh the compensation would probably could bankrupt the u.s there is no liability if they ask for
31:27
compensation there is no liability if you didn’t know if if you say i’m sorry these things happened to you we didn’t know i’m sorry but if you did know this is kind of like tobacco tobacco when you sue you win the suit because the tobacco company knew but if the tobacco company truly didn’t know it was toxic then it causes cancer and we’re sorry there’s no liability now like i said i want to reiterate i haven’t reached my conclusions but it’s a lot of stuff on the internet claiming
32:04
a massive cover cover-up or not this problem has to be looked at at least we should take a good look now rather than let it get really really bad right and some people claim that the problem when the stuff aerosolizing goes all over the world and the radioactivity is now out there some people claim it’s not even an issue of liability and cover-up it’s our issue of a health crisis okay i mean forget it you’re not here to collect on your liability if you’re not in pie so this is a very strange thing
32:41
medically speaking i have never quite seen anything like the gulf war syndrome and nobody has and you dismiss it because what you can’t find the cause now there’s indications that we should be looking at these people with very sensitive urine tests do you have any questions first question what can we do about it well we’ve got to support this bill to say if du was used in hawaii or not that test we will do is a marker that munitions were used that’s the most sensitive marker we have
33:20
we also have another marker that’s quite sensitive if you think it was used but the military cleaned up the target site and it’s really hard to clean it up so well then we will test people civilians guard anyone that’s certain yeah because it’s supposed to persist for several years in their urine a correct urine a 24-hour capture urine and i hope these people don’t say oh yeah it’s positive because i was deployed during gulf war okay but we don’t want these people we want people
33:51
who have sure being in the you get to have not been uh yeah now uh what do you want to argue for the sake of hawaii we should look in this well if hawaii starts to raise a ruckus i mean wouldn’t anybody else say hey what about our target sites hey what about our civilians what about blah blah blah blah blah so you’re kind of like playing with fire here right well what choices are there to me there’s no choice that’s what i mean there’s no choice but if you want to cut it off you can say
34:26
i’m just doing this for hawaii and when people call you call us up and say hey i heard you found this this this i’m just gonna say i don’t care i don’t care about missouri i don’t care about iraq i’m just doing this for hawaii you draw your own your own conclusions um that’s real strange because dr bertel is not from hawaii she’s from pennsylvania and she helps us trying to figure out what’s the test to do she’s developing the test so you can’t just say well i’m just
34:54
doing this for a while good luck the rest of you because other people have helped us now that’s your call how far you want to take it outside this and you know is there any solution that’s workable here short of a giant expose and a very expensive solution that will further damage our financial stability i’ve heard it quoted and i believe it is a physician who used to be here on ireland 20 years you cannot you can the bill people say can we afford to do this run the test and all her claim is you cannot afford not to do
35:31
it you can’t but you cannot afford to not do it in other words you must do it if you don’t you will see all hell break loose yeah now like i said we haven’t found it yet we’re just asking to look and we’re asking to look at the impact site on the target zones not way out in the periphery where you won’t see it so what can our audience do the petitioning and yesterday the bill passed the house okay then i can’t remember the name but uh you can find it on the it’s the
36:01
there’s only one bill remaining and it’s going before the senate and all of a sudden now that we changed the rules that we wanted martin luther at the target now the military is interested in all because before to me it’s what they call a fool’s chase go ahead do your test i’ll prove to you there’s nothing because you’re looking in the wrong area remember if you look at 500 yards and i’m claiming it spreads all over that’s the gas the gas blows away the soil is not contaminated
36:29
maybe but not contaminated 500 yards but the gas has gone out right and it was on purpose and they knew the old story i don’t know what they are i don’t doesn’t sell to a gmo thing put it this way like the same kind there’s more no no now in fairness the gmos i claim they did not know they do not want to look they did not know tobacco knew and they hid the reports of 4 000 reports that was subpoenaed by stan glantz at ucsf and when we got those reports we said damn it you knew now when we sue your
37:04
liable this one there are people more expert than me who claim they knew the guy wrote the manual there’s actually i’ve seen the documents he writes for the army that these people must be monitored and they’re not eric shinseki remember he he signed that we should monitor our soldiers he was correct and he disappears he was dismissed eric shinseki no i don’t know what he was dismissed from they said he confronted rumsfield because he said we needed more troops and rumfield said no
37:38
i don’t know but he did support the testing of soldiers in the most sensitive tests we knew the monitoring from and he did raise a flag about these things the uh problem at walter reed all these generals leaving um personally this is my opinion generals don’t leave because of moldy rooms they fix moldy rooms when you fix are you guys aware what we’re talking about that there’s been uh accusations of lousy care of the veterans starting with walter reed and the lousy care is because of run
38:16
around long wait lists moldy rooms while they wait for their disposition now it is said that for every person waiting at walter reed there are 16 who are out there who aren’t trying to seek care because it’s such a hassle it’s called the gatekeeper you make things inconvenient for them to get care and then they don’t come but when they do come they’ll be complaining about vague symptoms again called gulf war symptoms people don’t know what to do with them and then they’re going to pick up on the internet
38:48
stuff that’s on the internet that says why don’t you give me a 24-hour urine screen then that will come before the public before the senate and we’re not talking about you these are the issues not maybe a little bit moldy rooms and long wait lists but is this the gatekeeper method to keep veterans who are complaining off our back i mean those appear to be don’t forget i’m a veteran i wasn’t wounded in war but this is awfully strange thing now as they follow the veterans there’s
39:22
finding disproportionately high compared to age-matched non-veterans of all kinds of strange things and if you make walter reed and all the military people receptive to their complaints decrease the wait time give them decent rooms to be in the compounding at your door so you think that the generals are leaving because they don’t want to be there when all the uh ah hits the fan put it this way if i was a general and i had the excuse to leave for moldy rooms i would leave on lowly rooms knowing that i’ve seen the memo by
40:01
general pete signed before it was a official army memo to screen these guys and people’s gonna say well why didn’t we do that well i don’t know you know the chickens are coming home to roost and where are these where’s some accountability here well you know i can see that we’re we’ve been talking a while and the tape is already flashing at us what do you hope we can do from here support this bill start monitoring if we find something have the courage to say we found it don’t try to cover it up
40:37
because the iraqi civilians will complain because they need the same treatment and just look at it from a you know human point of view you could have been born an iraqi civilian so we’re basically asking for you the public to not let this one go by and get moldy yeah right not let this one go by and become something that uh later is compounded because we let it go and let it get worse oh yes it will get worse unless you nip this one it’s already out it’s not nipped in the butt but it will get worse
41:14
if it’s truly what they say it is like i said i haven’t looked so i don’t know what’s here but knowing what these people have said uh you’d be a damn fool not good luck will you come back and keep us posted on what’s going with this we will this goes before the senate on monday the first committee and i’ll go give testimony okay so by the time you see this we’ll be reading it in the news and you may have seen the second part of this story but we wanted to hear it
41:42
pure and straight from the horse’s mouth yes thank you for having the courage to be involved in something like this welcome keep in touch aloha [Music] [Applause] it’s been with you from [Music] don’t let me down [Music] your mother your father your sister and brother there is love in this family pick yourself up and get on your feet don’t stop me now [Music] don’t let me down [Music] is [Music] is me down
