DreamIng Bear – Wise Beyond His Years

Please LIKE, COMMENT, SHARE & SUBSCRIBE… It Really Helps Our Channel.

Jason Schwartz sits with Dr. DREAMING BEAR KANAAN — poet, author, performer, PhD. scholar shares some of his personal life and insights. 12-9-2019

Summary & Transcript

• [00:00 → 02:07] Introduction and Show Setup
  The episode opens with host Jason Schwartz introducing the show, “The Neutral Zone,” broadcast live from Maui on 88.5 FM KAKU, the voice of Maui. The tone is light and musical, with references to classic rock (“Sympathy for the Devil” by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards) and old-time sitcom intros, setting an easygoing atmosphere. Jason hints at an upcoming contest for animators and discusses the creative energy he wants to foster on the show. Dreaming Bear is introduced as a guest with a striking presence and a compelling voice, signaling an engaging conversation ahead.

• [02:07 → 06:29] Dreaming Bear’s Background and Instrument Introduction
  Jason reflects on Dreaming Bear’s unique background, noting his global travels, medical career, and powerful yet gentle demeanor. Dreaming Bear introduces an “ancient future instrument” called the Hang, invented in 2000 in Bern, Switzerland. The instrument resembles a flying saucer and produces melodic, resonant sounds based on the Middle Eastern Hejaz scale—connecting to Dreaming Bear’s Palestinian heritage. This instrument acts as both a musical tool and a symbolic bridge to his cultural roots and spiritual expression.
• [06:29 → 11:32] Name Origin and Dream Work
  Dreaming Bear shares the deeply personal story behind his name, given by his grandmother following a prophetic dream his mother had while pregnant. This dream involved a bear under a weeping willow, symbolizing beauty and purpose destined for him. From infancy, dreams have been his primary source of guidance, communication, and creativity. He explains different layers of dreaming: basic physiological, psychological problem-solving, mechanical (such as Einstein’s relativity insight), and prophetic dreaming. He recounts a recent vivid dream about riding a tsunami wave—a metaphor for society’s precarious state with environmental and technological tipping points. The dream’s symbolism reflects the urgency of navigating these challenges carefully to avoid being overwhelmed or “sucked down the drain.”
•      [11:32 → 16:05] Sustainability Vision and Community Work
  Jason and Dreaming Bear discuss sustainability efforts. Dreaming Bear describes his role in founding the Maui Arts and Music Association (MAMA) in 1991, a nonprofit promoting art, music, culture, and environmental education aimed at creating self-sustaining communities. He emphasizes the importance of collective positive action (“PAPA” – People Aligned in Positive Action). Jason ran for mayor with the Green Party 25 years ago, envisioning green technologies now becoming real, such as water-from-air machines and biochar production from green waste—technologies that support regenerative agriculture and energy independence. Despite financial hardships, he is energized by these dreams and innovations, embodying the “dream maker” spirit.
• 
• [16:05 → 21:29] Personal Journey Toward Off-Grid Living and Sustainability
  Dreaming Bear shares his personal journey of selling his conventional home and buying 25 acres to build a sustainable, off-grid homestead. He describes the steep learning curve and challenges of living sustainably on a budget, including installing solar power, composting toilets, irrigation, and sustainable agriculture. He explains the three-phase plan: cocooning/preparation, gardening, and eventually creating a wind farm. He reflects on the ancestral wisdom embedded in sustainability, connecting modern efforts to indigenous and pioneer ways of living in harmony with nature. Jason stresses the need for a societal mobilization similar to wartime efforts, but focused on sustainability and environmental stewardship.
• 
• [21:29 → 26:23] Call to Action and Community Mobilization
  Dreaming Bear passionately encourages listeners to take concrete action to live sustainably rather than just talking about it. Quoting Thomas Paine, he asserts that the current times demand commitment and hard work to build a livable future. He acknowledges the discomfort and sacrifice required but highlights the freedom and relief that come from self-sufficiency, such as no longer depending on utility companies. Dreaming Bear envisions a “Center for Metamorphosis” on his land, a retreat for people to cocoon themselves and rediscover their true nature, shedding societal conditioning and embracing their potential. Dreaming Bear and Jason share a mutual respect for dreamers who take action.
• [26:23 → 38:23] Neutral Zone Philosophy and Dreaming Bear’s Life Story
  The conversation turns reflective and philosophical. Jason explains the idea of “The Neutral Zone” as a space free from factionalism and blame, where open dialogue and cooperation can flourish. Dreaming Bear shares his educational background—degrees in communications and philosophy/religion—and how his mixed Palestinian and Cherokee heritage shaped his worldview. He recounts childhood trauma: the death of his younger brother and the kidnapping of his sister, which led to introspection and a determination to rise above adversity. Despite family challenges and expectations that he would fail, Dreaming Bear was motivated by his grandmother’s faith in him to become a scholar, artist, and community leader. His story illustrates resilience and the power of self-belief.
• 
• 38:23 → 44:55] Maui’s Changing Landscape and Vision for the Future
  Jason and Dreaming Bear discuss the rapid changes in Maui over the past few decades, including rising tourism and housing costs that displace longtime residents. They acknowledge both the beauty and the challenges of the island’s evolution. Dreaming Bear emphasizes the importance of new technologies and community models that allow people to live sustainably and independently, such as creating water and power off-grid without permits. They reflect on the need for collective responsibility and action to prevent societal collapse—the metaphorical “drain” from earlier. The dialogue stresses cooperation over competition and the urgent need to align culture with sustainable values.
• [44:55 → 53:16] Dreaming Bear’s Musical Expression and Philosophy of Life
  Dreaming Bear brings the conversation back to his music and poetry. He tells a visionary story about his relationship with the Hang instrument, including a dream where it transported him through time and space, symbolizing the unity of past, present, and future. He shares a musical excerpt and recites a profound poem by Hafiz, emphasizing gradual spiritual and personal growth. His life motto is to “beautify existence” and inspire cosmic goosebumps—moments of awe and connection with the universe. Music and poetry are not just art but tools for transformation and healing.
• [53:16 → 56:12] Closing Remarks and Invitation to Engage
  Jason invites listeners to tune in to Dreaming Bear’s own radio show, “Maui Mystic,” which airs Friday and Saturday nights on 88.5 FM KAKU, featuring conscious dance music and philosophical content. They express mutual support and the intention to collaborate further. Jason encourages the audience to explore the Maui Neutral Zone website and social media channels for more episodes and interconnected discussions on sustainability, culture, and community solutions. The show closes with thanks and an announcement of next week’s guest and topic.

1. 1. 1. Key Insights

• 
• Dreams as Guidance: Dreaming Bear’s life and work are deeply influenced by dreams, both personal and collective, serving as a compass for action and creativity.
• Sustainability as Ancestral Wisdom: Modern sustainability efforts are framed as a return to indigenous knowledge and pioneer self-reliance, emphasizing harmony with nature.
• Community Mobilization: Both guests stress the need for collective, coordinated action akin to wartime mobilization but focused on environmental regeneration and resilience.
• Off-Grid Living Realities: Practical challenges and rewards of living off-grid are discussed candidly, highlighting the cultural shift required to embrace sustainability fully.
• Neutral Zone Philosophy: The show’s ethos promotes open, non-confrontational dialogue to bridge divides and foster cooperation rather than competition.
• Cultural and Personal Resilience: Dreaming Bear’s story illustrates how adversity can be transformed into strength and purpose through education, self-awareness, and supportive community.
• Art as Transformation: Music, poetry, and creative expression are integral to personal and societal transformation, offering beauty and connection amid change..

1. 1. 1. FAQ

Q: What is the “ancient future instrument” Dreaming Bear plays?
A: It’s called the Hang, invented in 2000 in Switzerland, resembling a flying saucer and tuned to Middle Eastern scales, producing resonant melodic sounds.

Q: What inspired Dreaming Bear’s name?
A: His grandmother named him after a dream his mother had during pregnancy, foretelling he would bring beauty to the world.

Q: What is the main message about sustainability in the interview?
A: Sustainability requires action, community mobilization, and a return to ancestral ways of living in harmony with nature, supported by modern green technologies.

Q: How does Dreaming Bear view dreams?
A: Dreams are a multifaceted source of insight, ranging from everyday problem-solving to prophetic glimpses of the future guiding his life and work.

Q: What is The Neutral Zone?
A: A platform for open, respectful dialogue where people set aside conflict to explore ideas collaboratively and creatively.

Q: How does off-grid living impact daily life?
A: It involves a steep learning curve, challenges such as managing waste and water, but offers freedom from dependence on utilities and aligns one more closely with natural cycles.

Q: How does art fit into sustainability and community building?
A: Art, music, and poetry serve as powerful mediums to inspire, heal, and beautify existence, fostering connection and transformation.

This detailed summary captures the richness and depth of the conversation between Jason Schwartz and Dreaming Bear, preserving the structure and key themes of the original transcript.

1. 1. 1. Transcript

00:00

good morning everyone it’s the neutral zone it’s Monday at 11 o’clock this is Jason’s what I’m here with dreaming bear we’re gonna have a great show today hang on just a moment [Music] I know many man sold [Music] that is moment of doubt they nephew his hands [Music] Thank You Mick Jagger and Keith Richards for sympathy for the devil you know and I my theme song here is a little bopping music at the beginning like 13 seconds and actually like a sitcom when you hear it you get it sounds like going all in

01:33

the family right an old-time kind of sitcom intro and it has a bouncing red ball and that red ball is like a cushy easygoing red ball but then here comes this zinger lightning bolt mmm we’re gonna have a contest out here very soon we’re gonna have to figure out the prize because we want animators to feel free you know remember Disney used to have at the end of the Mickey Mouse Club Donald Duck would get up there and there would be this big gong or whatever it was and he would take a stick and hit it and

02:07

every time it would have a different kind of an experience well we’re planning an animated series and you guys see dreaming bear that’s your camera okay what is this we’re on Radio 88.5 FM k hey hey you the voice of Maui that means all of you can be on radio and we hope you’re on radio to express the way you want to express dreaming bear is a wonderful Express or you know when I think about you I I first saw you and you were very striking image when I first saw you hmm and then I said and then I heard you

02:51

speak just don’t and I said this guy has a good speaking voice oh yeah yeah and then I heard you are also a doctor and have experience in different areas and that you were sort of grew up and have traveled widely so I look forward to our conversation because as doing we keep passing through the night we wave and say hi you know mm-hmm but like you said we get to know each other live to the world which is really one little way a better one hiding I’m Jason Schwartz I’m the host of the show and

03:26

that’s just because I’m sitting in the seat regularly but I have a great time because I get to interview different kinds of guests last week we had councilman Mike Moline while I always think about everything but you know I I’m not a guy with a sword I put down my sword I’m a neutral zone where we talk now like that he remember 20 years ago I guess more when I was interviewing him I told him that my style was I lay down my sword hmm and he remembers it to this day and brings it up every almost every

04:03

go I like that because you know I’m not the neutral zone is here so we can talk about all kinds of things we have all kinds of people we were talking about renewable energy and water from air and green waste being power these things that are right now and a relevant reason I’m bringing all this up is when people are going through our library at Maui neutral zone calm they’re going to see guests like dreaming bear who is I want to say an outspoken being whose presence is felt every time I see you I know

04:43

however that you know you walk with certainty and then you have a sense about you that is very powerful very gentle hollow but very I like to I’m a gentle lion you know don’t mistake my gentleness meekness all right but I you know you you seem to walk with a really you know a heartfelt gait mmm I saw you did a little piece with my friend Steve freed you didn’t yes life with Maui yes you’ve been on with Bill best yes these guys are bill best as a radio guy Steve freed is doing life on

05:23

and I guess we don’t say TV anymore but yeah yeah on visual and audio but he’s been doing stuff for years really so we’re gonna have some experience what do you what’s that instrument that pleases the hyung it’s a I call it an ancient future instrument it’s invented in the year 2000 in Bern Switzerland if you’re on radio or if you’re on TV and not see it on the screen it is to thought when was it invented in the year 2000 mm of brass and steel and it sort of creates a

05:58

her molt’s resonator inside flower of life are these actual different notes these are the different notes actually the whole thing is one one sort of imagine a drum that’s also melodic at the same time and so it’s set to west and this is actually set to the scale of the Middle East okay so that part of my heritage my father is from Palestine and so my mother’s Native American but the Palestinians have a scale called the Hejaz scale which is sort of that when you think of ancient Egypt you know and

06:29

I’ll play the scale for you in a little bit but it’s not unique we remember whole whole half whole whole all right right western but this is more pentatonic this is one so but as so that’s great but could I guess it could be made in all kinds of scales this is a rarity the most of them are made in European or American I see things that we would recognize on Western world a hung and see it but it’s probably Oh 20 inches 24 inches and then it’s sort of like it looks looks like a flying saucer

07:06

as the old days this for sure that’s for sure it’s the flying saucer you know I have a picture of a flying saucer in way low and when I had it in the back of this place you don’t see the string coming down and those are the good old days you lived up a twin idea no I did those days twin fall magical well yeah places that the view is not gonna change gonna stay beautiful mm-hmm what are you know is really going at a going at it at a rate that is unprecedented it really is it really is

07:40

you know resources and mm-hmm you’re a different guy you seem to be your name were you born with that as a given name that was the name that my grandmother gave me at Birth I tell you a little bit of the story my mom her name is Jack WETA Fay which is uh means the rebellious fairy and what that whole story was is that when she was 14 she got pregnant with me and she was a runaway she was a teenage truant she got caught by a truancy officer put into a juvenile detention center he they gave her an incoming pregnancy test you’re

08:15

pregnant you know we we think you should have an abortion a child shouldn’t be raising a child but we want you to sleep on it was sort of the story they told her and so she slept on it she had a dream in the night in this dream she saw a bear sitting under a weeping willow tree and the bear said to her you’re going to have a son and this child will bring Beauty into the world do not kill this son and she woke from the dream called my grandmother Marie and Marie whitefeather told her his name is going

08:41

to be dreaming bear so a sort of a premonition that was given to me while I was still in the womb it it definitely you know had a huge impact on my life and and as a result I sort of found dreams as my primary source of information my primary way of making decisions in the world my primary way of communicating everything that comes to me my poetry you know I’d do it all through dream cycles and I think that goes back to that moment when I recognized that if a 14-year old girl can pay attention to a

09:12

dream and I’m here as a result that there must be something to this other world you know how do you access dreams you mean you you remember dreams oh yeah yeah because of the story as a child my mom would tell me this story and so I grew up thinking well what is in dreams and so I would have dreams of the future there’s there’s you know many layers of dreaming there’s housecleaning which is sort of the basic you dream you gotta pee and you got a get a pee or the phone’s ringing there’s

09:39

psychological you’re working out problems with somebody imagined interaction type stuff there’s the mechanical this is where Einstein was dreaming of riding a beam of light and he came up with a theory of relativity as a result and then the most profound layers what they call prophetic dreaming and that is where you get glimpses into the future and so I’ve sort of kept a what I call a dream cartography across a lifetime and just kept a roadmap of where I’ve been places I go back to on

10:06

occasion even this morning you know I’ve been thinking a lot about our coming together what would we talk about and as I dreamt this morning it’s a real quick dream I dreamt that there was a huge tsunami coming towards the islands and there was a great my amount of trepidation the tsunami swept through the streets and it was it was moving ultra-fast but for some reason I had the inclination to jump in and bodysurf the tsunami and so I’m body surfing this tsunami at like what seems like a

10:35

hundred miles an hour going down the main freeway and I’m just enjoying the ride in passing people and it’s just this overwhelming flood and then we come to this part where you know have you been in a street where the rain is real thick and they had those thin slit sewer gutters and the water is just kind of rushing into those gutters well I started to get sucked into one of those and I and then I woke up and I realized that’s more of a metaphor for where we’re at as a society you know

11:03

environmentally speaking this confluence of tipping points that we’re all going through where everything seems to be about to explode or on the verge of losing balance and I feel like I was riding that wave and that the metaphor for me from the dream was is that that wave leads to a drain it leads to a ditch and if you’re not careful if you don’t get off the wave you might get sucked into that and that seemed to me a message about where we’re headed as a as a society you know somehow that we’re

11:32

riding this great technological innovative wave but simultaneously the cracks in our foundations are starting to appear and some of us are gonna get sucked into those holes you know you know as you were telling that story I was envisioning as you were dreaming and then when you got to the point of the drain to me that’s the point where you had a chance and still do mm-hmm you caught yourself in you again you just took off again in a positive direction so I’m not going down the drain but did

12:06

you know that your anything about my company there are my organs in Ellen do you know we have a company non-profit very nonprofit called mama Maui Arts and Music Association hmm Maui Arts and Music Association promotion of art music culture of the islands educate people about environmental solutions so we can create a self sustainability model Maui being an example mm-hmm that was 1991 hmm Wow here we are now it’s like you were talking about dreaming the other name for us is Poppa people aligned in positive action mama

12:49

and papa I love it has another name that thing that’s dream makers foundation of Maui and the notion being dream is very powerful mm-hmm action step not us do it but together we can create and so I’ve been envisioning in fact in 1994 I ran a long time ago 25 years that’s when I met my partner Ariel for years who loves you by the way Mahalo I ran for Green Party candidate for mayor of Maui and council and so I’ve had these ideas and now 25 years later that 2020 vision in 2020 the

13:39

technologies that I was while thinking about and dreaming of I can actually talk about a tsunami products mmm it’s not magic they condense water from the air 125 gallon 500-gallon these things exist there was from the air means you can build anywhere leave open fields you can build in places but you don’t have to bring in power because not only can you create power now independently but you can do it through green waste yes and turn it into power and create biochar that has marketable value as a pro and it creates

14:21

like Jurassic Park growth on Maui as an example to the world these are visions I know it sounds like a lot no to some but it sounds like the future the dream we’re headed to it someone who sees a dream I’m in a men’s group and they said yes you think differently than many people you know like your whole life you don’t have much going on around you financially anymore I got exploded by that mortgage mmm-hmm but I get excited because of these dreams yeah I see and I don’t see any

14:54

reason that they can’t happen in fact I feel like I’m walking into my own dream mmm so when I meet someone who honors dreams like you you opened up a little doorway on the doorway and where I come that’s beautiful I love that I love that the dream maker so I love that 20/20 vision in 2020 I like that as well because I say hindsight is 20/20 but we’re really gonna need 20/20 to see where we’re headed you know as a as a relating point I about three years ago I decided to really go for the sustainable vision you

15:31

know we talked about it we espouse it but I said I’m going to live this and I took my house that I had worked very hard to get sold it and went for the dream I bought 25 acres and started from the ground up just with nothing I mean talking about just building solar building houses from the from you know with own two hands kind of a thing me and my partner out there running barbed wire and and realizing that what it really takes to start from nothing is a he huge learning curve I mean sustainability sounds like a great thing

16:05

and people talk about it but the reality of it especially if you’re doing it on a budget is that first the reality of it is it’s much more difficult than you think because it’s almost like society has become addicted to convenience and comfortability to the extent that composting toilets seem like a real far-out idea to people from the mainland especially you know but then but then you know we have PhDs which I have one of masters degree I have one a BA I have one but then the real education comes

16:35

when you start to put sticks together an element screws and you’d have to dig a ditch line and know how water irrigates itself and how to capture it and how to grow your own food and how to do all of this completely sustainable and now I’m on the other side of having you know what I call a three phase approach my first phase was the pupa phase you know I’m getting ready I’m in the cocoon I’m building the cocoon as it were and then after that we’re doing gardening and then we’re going to do a whole other

17:05

sustainable wind farm type thing but right now we’re at the end of phase one so I’ve built three structures they’re all sustainable they’re all off the grid and we’re doing their real work of what it means to live with the earth having animals having land and trying to make what seems like the step of modernity which is to leave behind this this addiction to the societal conveniences and to learn how to do things for ourselves to become not just sustainable but self-sufficient I think that’s a

17:39

thing and what I realized is as much as I think of it as a future thing it’s really an ancestor thing you know it’s really going back to indigenous ways because what I’m doing is the same thing that homesteaders were doing several hundred years ago pioneers several hundred years ago thousands of years ago people who were who were just human living on the planet were doing sustainability as a matter of fact as a matter of a way of life and so now that I’m a year deep into that project of having you know spent my my

18:12

my nest egg but it seemed like just throwing money into the earth you know it for a while because you’re trying to do infrastructure type stuff like plumbing and electrical and these are things that I think you know we need a mobilization for right now you know like in World War two there was a there was a mobilization like people mobilized and we we got prepared for that as a whole country we said we’re going to do this together and people gave up certain conveniences you know people did things that they wouldn’t

18:42

that didn’t seem like America’s freedoms today but I feel like we need to mobilize now not towards war but towards sustainability towards these things that you’re talking about water out of the atmosphere why DreamMaker not just dreamer that’s why you are a Dream Maker exactly Mahalo Baba you too you too that’s what it that’s exactly what I mean yes talk is talk yeah take that step let’s move forward because that is Thomas Paine’s I quoted it yesterday Thomas Paine said and I got this from

19:16

Nancy Pelosi speaking but only is that for those of you that don’t know and what year we’re in we’re in 2019 in the times of the peach mint of President Donald Trump in the United States you know you might be watching this in the future or in the past one but in the future that’s one and she was quoting and talking about Thomas Paine Thomas Paine said The Times have found us it’s not like we woke up and said I’m gonna do something great I’m gonna make a commitment and I’m gonna do something

19:52

hard but I’m gonna get self-sustainable and I’m gonna pull things together and I’m gonna work in a different way and I’m gonna share in a different way and nest egg for later means nothing if there is nobody and nothing left so let’s mobilize and let’s recognize brothers and sisters together we have all the answers we can make all this work not only that if you know as we go we’ll recognize just how powerful this is hmm that’s big my big little speech like it but it’s genuine yes

20:28

genuinely what the world needs is the show recognize how to cooperate euros it’s possible but it takes action action it’s easy it’s it’s really easy to talk about it it’s not so easy to leave the comfort zone that says this is where we as a society get anchored into the being so comfortable I mean I loved my house I did not want to sell it but everything anything was saying if you’re talking about sustainability be about sustainability and it reminds me of Maya Angelou she had a great quote where she

20:58

said everyone loves the butterfly but few people are aware of what it had to go through to become the butterfly and we’re not focused on on the the story of how it became the butterfly we just see the end result but we’re at that moment now where we’re going to have to go through some things I I went you know I went through with when I first the first three months off-grid I was like a baby like oh my god I got it you know I did not I didn’t I was I was I can’t regret it for exactly I can’t flush my toilet I

21:29

you know there were all these like I could feel it almost felt like a drug addict you know losing its its what is it worth the withdrawal symptoms of you know not being sustainable as withdrawal yeah exactly but on the other side of it there’s this freedom and now having lived it for a year I’m planning on never coming back to the world of the grid it’s been such a relief to not have to give money to the hell company hELCO and to not have to rely on someone for the basic necessities of life you know fortunately

22:04

I was able to pay off all the land so now we’re just focusing on what we call the Center for metamorphosis this is my next phase where we’re gonna have people come and cocoon themselves for one two three month cycles and and and this is where we come back to what you’re talking about dream making people people are dreamers but they’ve rarely have the courage to give themselves the permission they need to go through what they have to go through to become the being that they envisioned themselves to

22:30

be so what I want to do is give people a place in nature it’s off the grid to forget what they were taught and to learn what they were born to and to really cultivate themselves you know and then to offer that that to the world in a certain way well you know it sounds like we’re very aligned mm-hmm indeed we are aligned we are obviously and I just very happy to hear that you’re doing that step malam and there’s anything that I can do I mean I know that that to me I was mentioning to you

23:03

I think off camera here you know it’s like many times I need help I really need help but I’m not big at asking for help but when people say you know of anything I can do that’s the kind of help that I’m looking for when someone reaches out to help like someone broke into my car and stole everything hmm I’m told that stirred my brother and he sending me an iPad you know that he’s got meaning I wouldn’t ask him right he gave it Brian’s like I go and do things like I go visit someone and I have

23:40

people say things to me like oh that was so beautiful it’s that taking the action step it’s really a it’s sort of small it’s true but it stands out from things it’s like turning once you get off the grid with you like you say once you get out of this matrix more you find you shift things just a little bit and the world that dream world it’s as if my wife making a shift the whole world shifts I was giving food that was given to me through a feed my sheep food bank thing and giving it to a family that had

24:20

you know a couple of kids and they said to me you know our cupboards were bare and now they’re full and what you do like now we find ourselves doing good things and helping each other mmm change of attitude little shift yeah it’s so powerful – 25 acres yeah yeah ant ass and it’s right on the ocean so we have a we’re about 600 feet elevation weird love it a little bit above the ocean but it’s in a beautiful spot you know it brings me but what I’ve learned most of this time

24:53

is that if we’re talking about truth that there if there is such a thing as capital T truth for me nature is it and if there is such a thing as capital s sacrilege defiling nature would be or taking it for granted or not somehow being in alignment with it would be a form if we had to come up with a new form of a higher standard for Humanity you know the word culture originally meant people who who care for their environment that’s the word culture and then the word competition as a poet I

25:26

look these things up originally met people who strive together towards a common intent so if culture and competition have been lost that the true meanings of those things what else have we lost and that’s what we need to get back to well that’s powerful because I always say cooperation Trump’s competition but it is the same it’s driving together toward true competition is striving together like gather you making me better I make you better and how what’s the best version of humanity

25:53

we can come to an agreement upon between us and that’s what I love about this conversation is the impromptu moment of two beings coming together and say where does that this iron sharpen this iron and where can where can we find sparks you know we’re gonna take a break I’m here with dreaming bear I’m Jason Schwartz on the neutral zone if you are up on the Internet you can go to Facebook live and find us so you can find us in the air 88.5 FM kak you the voice of mal we will be back in a couple

26:23

minutes we’ll let me put on our station identification and a couple of sponsors the neutral zone with me Jason Schwartz would like to sincerely thank David Bryan for his support whose founder and head of school at new road school in Santa Monica California and as the board chaired the Ojai Foundation and on the board for brave new films the neutral zone is heard live Mondays at 11:00 a.m. here on Kak you 88.5 FM the voice of maui and again on saturdays at 7:00 a.m. as well as on TV and on Maui neutral zone calm

27:11

the 50s the 60s the 70s hi this is Steve summers welcoming you aboard the oldies time machine right here on kha you enjoy special features like the diner tune the Motown memory the duo upper and the elvis moment come on spend an hour inside the oldies time machine sunday mornings at 1:00 and 10:00 a.m. right here on the voice of maui kak u it’s important to buckle up your kids I know sometimes car seats can be complicated I know and if your child’s in the wrong seat and you get into a crash I know it could lead to a serious

27:47

injury I know so you’re 100% sure you have the right car seat for your child’s age and size I don’t know don’t think you know no you know car crashes are a leading killer of children 1 to 13 make sure you have the right car seat visit safercar.gov/therightseat a message from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Ad Council from everyone here at ikkaku to you we wish you joy cheer and aloha this holiday season please be safe don’t drive under the influence be kind to one

28:18

another enjoy the company of your family and friends take time and enjoy your meals think of how you can help others reflect on your past and plan for a healthy and positive future wishing you all a very happy holiday season and a wonderful new year hi I’m Jason Schwartz host of the neutral zone kak u is a listener-supported station this means that all the great programs you hear like mine a sponsored by you as well as our underwriters if you would like to help keep the voice of Maui looking loud and clear go to kak UF m

28:55

dot org slash donate today and give and don’t miss the neutrals on mondays at 11:00 a.m. on 88.5 FM to voice of flower [Music] all others is Jason Schwartz I am back with dreaming bear on the neutral zone Maui neutral zone calm the neutral zone was taken by the University of think it was University of Alabama hmm and so here Maui neutral zone calm but the idea is we’re a neutral zone the neutral zone and we can talk about anything with anyone and really I I think that putting down the sword thing

29:37

that just is very graphic and visual yeah I don’t have I love that I love that I love that you know when you say the neutral zone it reminds me of when you go to the Big Island and you go in the way the volcano there’s a place there’s signs that say no fault zone and I always joke to the people in the car I always say oh no one’s at fault werden we’re not place where no one can be at fault that that’s sort of what the neutral zone is a place where a free exchange of ideas yeah

30:01

where we can really discuss with me where we talk about and you know things have gone on with the council the mayor and someone has a thing I’m much more interested in what’s behind there what is it that we’re trying to come to understand and appreciate about so that we aren’t on sides at all mmm-hmm somehow that always feels like it’s gonna work better yeah I think it’s more interesting too because people are bored with the status quo I mean who cares and it’s an inclusive model it says we

30:36

doesn’t say you and me exactly exactly um you’re out there as a poet what are you a doctor of what is your man what is your interest level no no I get I got my BA in communications and I got a master’s degree in communications as well and with an emphasis on performance at Cal State and then I got the PhD and religion philosophy of religion basically and I taught philosophy and I taught communications at Cal State for a few years and that was a great time you know I loved it I did it more as a you know for me my

31:16

father being Palestinian my mother being Cherokee I grew up in sort of a disparate world the sort of inherited collective displacement of those two cultures influenced my life and so for me education was the only way out knowledge you know really honing my mind so when I was young looking around me seeing all the poverty I said to myself I’m not going to end up like this and for me the way to not end up like that was instead of drinking doing drugs going to parties I was reading and I was mastering instruments and trying to

31:46

master several languages and trying to invest in the creative aspects because my early thought was I saw all the people around me addicted alcohol cigarettes all kinds of stuff and I thought well what if I could get addicted to good habits like working out and and reading and and then memorizing and you know so what I did early on as a very young man as I would be being poor I would go to the library and I would and I couldn’t afford to buy a book so I would just memorize the book in the store I would just read it and memorize

32:17

the best parts and keep that with me and I did that with the row with Emerson with Twain with all my all the great American literary artists and then I started branching out and looking at you know Buddhism Christianity Islam and having this mixed culture gave me the perspective of being able to look at very diluted that spark inside does that come from just coming from you were you influenced by someone in your life that got you I mean that’s an exciting thing as a child to get go in and move our

32:48

through literature and reading and exploring yes I hope that kids now with the internet have that same I hope they do how could I not everything’s at their fingertips that seems to me like I hope so I’m hoping that it doesn’t become but a lot of em I’m a business information of their the the truth not easy to sell what’s the true and what’s not true right where our way that’s why I say truth with a capital T for me the only one is nature otherwise that’s when we can all at

33:16

least agree on you know the primacy of it for me I didn’t have I didn’t have a person driving me to do these things I was fortunate and unfortunate at the age of 8 my brother was killed and my sister was taken she was kidnapped and I was I was the one who was bearing witness to those today I was the older brother my sister was I was 8 she was 6 my brother was 4 and my brother was killed this is all happening within a six-month period and so my brother and I were just sitting in our front yard a guy lost

33:45

control of his car and he ran over my brother like literally as close as this home is like in and you know when you’re 8 you don’t know what death is that got me really really recognizing at 8 that there’s a thing called death and I might die you know my sister was taken a few months later and without going into the details of the story that really turned me into an introspective praça I became an introvert I didn’t want to talk to people I didn’t have which was contrary to everything that I am now now I’m an

34:14

outspoken person but all that all that voice comes from isolation and from going within so having to deal with the death of my brother that the loss of my sister turned me in word and that got me to thinking how do I not turn into the people the statistical people around me and here’s where it all came to a head one day my grandmother who named me my mother my aunts and uncles were all they had used to have these these uh what I called cigarette coffee conversations where they would all sit around the

34:44

circular table and they would talk about the family and smoke cigarettes and drink coffee and it was at night the kids weren’t supposed to be there but being the dreaming bear I was I would sneak down the hall and I would record with a little tape recorder of their conversations and then playing for the kids the next day and we would hear them cussing and you know we just we I thought it was fun one night I was recording and they they started talking about all the kids in the family oh what’s he gonna do what’s he gonna do

35:06

what’s he gonna do oh he’s gonna be a doctor all he’s gonna be a police officer and then they came up to Dreaming bear what’s oh I never got quiet like oh and then my grandmother this is my grandmother the one who named me the one who said he this boy’s meant for great things she said I’m afraid he’s gonna end up dead or in prison and I don’t think there’s any hope for this boy because at that point my sister had been taking my rather been killed my father was in

35:30

prison for selling marijuana and eventually he was deported back to Palestine he had to serve out a sentence and so I at that point I heard them say that I had report was recording them saying I was gonna be the one that would turn out bad so I broke down on the inside I crawled back to my room and I started crying and then something inside of me said no no I will not be that I’m going to do whatever I can to not be that and so really it was hearing that I couldn’t do it the kind of and since

36:01

then it’s sort of become a trend that if someone says no you can’t do that then I’m like I’m going to do that you know for me something said that future if my grandmother who believes in me more than anyone thinks that that’s my future I’m in trouble I need to do something and so that turns me around hearing that actually turns me around almost overnight I became a different person you know within a few weeks I was making straight A’s in school I got scholarships I went on to be the only

36:28

person in my family to graduate high school to go on to college to even get degrees elevated by by being quote set out to be your own it’s funny mm-hmm like you say you turned within the God within you recognized that for your life it was gonna be you yes yes was gonna take an action exactly or or end up like the like they said see yeah yeah so it was a wake-up call you know at the time I was really hurt by her but in retrospect you know we’re talking about hindsight being 20/20 you looked at this

37:09

I’m sure before yeah for sure but it’s a powerful thing that happens in this day and age you know we see all around those kids and families and things that are going on there’s so much beauty here on Maui you know I here now 30 years Wow and I’ve had a wonderful partner in Ariel for 25 years mmm so I’ve lived in a community that leads with love in the most part you know I’ve lived reo I want to say his new age yes I’m the way but instead of a bridge guy and I yeah I still am

37:48

conservative and knowing that you have to add a total financial right that’s correct so I’m a balance but um because there’s no swords we all talk together yes this island is so rich in beautiful people that’s what I was saying just living here if you when if you aren’t from on Maui and you come to Maui you’re gonna feel it in the air people you say no matter where they go in the world there’s something really special about here I really is I came here 20 years ago so you being here 30 years you’ve

38:23

seen that the change I mean how what Maui was 20 years ago is completely almost different to the animal that it is today and then it’s some of its scary some of its some of its exciting you know just just the thirty-five thousand tourists a day in Lahaina alone kind of a thing the bulging you know for me Maui has always been my sanctuary it’s been my home and I agree with you it’s it’s a magical place and Maui no kawaii simultaneous that I feel like now he is almost at that that across world yeah

38:55

yeah and something’s about if there’s a great exodus off of Maui for people who can’t afford housing for people who can’t be in the scene of millionaires you know because we could have gone left to right they went left right exactly when I was running 25 years ago a lot of the things that we see now that everyone’s saying we should do I was talking about then and then wasn’t just me you know the things that were going on where we looking over the horizon a little bit larai the future and that’s why your

39:28

powerful thing about you going out there and starting your community and going from the ground up to me is a great example to people some people don’t need to be starting at that level and we love the technologies there are all kinds of things that can happen exactly making those giant changes exactly like here’s a funny one as a giant a little quick giant change people say well right now if you want to create listen how funny I think if you want to create power and water in your own structure then you

40:02

don’t need a building permit well really is that right okay so but now we can create water from air and power from solar or other ways and that means we can build a community on a piece of land in a new and different way without having any Authority waiting if we learn how to undo how to deal with and process our waste it’s that kind of example now if someone did that and then shared it with whoever it mean and then that’s where the act of conversion of existing if we’re gonna save our world all of you

40:44

out there that think that you’ll just be in your little house and won’t do anything to hurt that’s not gonna save our now that’s the drain that’s the drain we were headed towards you stop and will replenish carbon rubra we have to all of us do things that aren’t that always easy it’s not always the easiest that’s the best yeah I was written in my high school yearbook by my 10th grade science teacher wise as true too but here we are we’re at that crossroad so to once again go back to Thomas Paine

41:19

these are the times they found us maybe you don’t want to take that and use the cup and clean the cup you rather use a paper cup well we have to start all of us me included it’s not doing things to realize that we all have to be in law yes look big steps are big steps and everybody step they’re all big steps to all exactly yeah hundred percent it’s easier though I can say after a year yeah yeah I don’t want to go back exactly exactly I’ve gotten so used so the main problem is getting

41:54

comfortable with confronting your own waste product that’s a that’s a big problem for humans in America I mean we were like whoa I want to see it I don’t want to smell it I want to think about it but we’ve actually found a way to turn it into we plant coconut trees we dig holes we put it in the holes and then we plant coconut trees on top of them and reuse it to grow food and to grow trees I mean that’s acid which is the way you should we not there’s not any part of our lives that doesn’t go

42:18

back into the earth and recycle itself which is it’s a good feeling once you’re in it for a while you’re like now I feel like I’m because I before when I had a house I was spending like 3,000 gallons a month just flushing the toilet and you start thinking that’s 15 gallons of water every time I want to use the restroom even if it’s just number one now the earth gets renewed with nitrous week we call it watering the earth and then we were able to turn our actual waste product into compost for trees it

42:47

just feels like you’re really stepping back into us I mean this is something that is simple you know it’s a simple way but getting comfortable again with the natural processes of being human I think that’s part of returning to nature sounds like we could handle the homeless problem just by having a different perspective on what a home is and what means home exactly and feeling like a community and it isn’t really an alternative we don’t have an alternative this is the world that we’re in this is

43:19

the there is no alternative or maybe there is but what it’s like what is our choice this is where we don’t reach for greatness it comes to us we are embodying a time that requires us to be the great beings that we are yes I know I I don’t know if I talked to everybody this way but somehow I feel very I love it well because we lay down the sword and that reminds me you know when you say you lay down the sword it reminds me of Voltaire even your intro song kind of reminded me of Voltaire he says you know

43:54

on his deathbed you can tell a lot about a person by their last moments on planet on his deathbed he’s approached by a Catholic priest and the priest says Voltaire would you like to renounce Satan at this time and Voltaire says now now my good man this is no time to go making new enemies and and then he went on to say you know this is before he died he went on to say he had said if this is the best of all possible worlds what then are the others and I think that that’s the question that we’re

44:24

trying to get to is you know we have an opportunity to create the best of possible worlds and that’s sort of what the neutral zone is representative of but why aren’t we is a question like when you look at the world and you see most beautiful possible outcome and and least beautiful possible outcome living side-by-side and humans consistently choosing things and and actions that lead to the same predictable bad outcomes you have to ask yourself in a world of infinite possibilities why would we keep choosing that kind of a

44:55

path and and and really it’s just about taking the initiative within yourself forgetting about what people think about you what you think about yourself what your standing is financially and otherwise and just saying my life has to count for something this is what it’s going to count for and so having the courage to step into that I think that’s the call that’s upon us all right now very well said hmm you know we only have 11 minutes left and I could keep talking but I’m sitting here looking at this

45:27

this hung yes and I know that you have a relationship with it I do I don’t know if any of its going to be visually available on the air but I’m not worried about that that’s alright they’ll be able to hear this is he Neos this is very interesting and I don’t see why okay there you go perfect this is Helios the Hejaz hung in the Hejaz scale and you know when I first got this hung I had a dream the first night I got it I slept with it next to me in the bed and I had a dream that I had discovered it

45:56

embedded in lava rock on the islands and I had somehow cut it out and then when I in my dream when I started to play it it created a time warp bubble around me and I appeared on a train in the sky traveling faster than the speed of light having anti-gravity tea with Albert Einstein and as Einstein and I are sitting there on top of this train traveling in the sky faster than the speed of light with with time immemorial happening around us there’s there’s cowboys and Indians over here there’s

46:23

dinosaurs over here there’s the future happening over there and and hovering in lotus position drinking anti-gravity tea Einstein asks me do you remember who you were five years ago and I said yeah he says so you remember what you thought how you felt I said of course he says then why can’t you remember who you will be five years from now and I said oh and that’s sort of that’s sort of the beginning of where this instrument how it introduced itself to me okay that’s great so what I do is I I used to

47:01

do before I stepped into this world of sustainability you know I used this instrument as sort of a magic carpet bed of music and I traveled the world sharing conscious poetics and I was able to go into a lot of places so I got a lot of different people I’ll just give you a two-minute introduction to what this is like here is life here is life an experiment to a great extent untried by most I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately to suck all the marrow out of life and not when I

48:32

come to die discover that I never actually lived because living dear just a little taste of what this instrument is and and the specialness of this creature it really became my lover for nine months you know learning to play it my fingers bled my knuckles swole I played it so long for nine months trying to learn how to to do a complicated rhythm and share actual words that means something you know and to find that place where word and music became one you know where I could now I could do it in my sleep I could do it

49:41

with my eyes closed I could I could do it underwater I could do it in any way that’s that’s what the kind of dedication I’m talking about the society needs now where we have to find what we’re good at or what we love and become so good at it that it’s a part of us that it exudes from us wherever we go and that it’s a that it’s an aspect of who we are and it also here’s my here’s my motto in life I exist in order to beautify and that my goal is to give existence the cosmic equivalent of

50:09

goosebumps if I’m able to if I’m able to maybe maybe if we’re watching shooting stars and going huh maybe they’re watching us and waiting to not be bored by our existences and if we can just live lives that give ourselves goosebumps I think that that by proxy gives existence goosebumps so that’s sort of that’s sort of my motto and life is follow your goosebumps you know well said Mahalo how long I would love to hear another piece and then we’ll have a close yeah a couple of minutes is something

50:46

else yeah definitely something I can appreciate this I don’t think I’ve ever seen anywhere else your plant I’ve seen them around or heard them hmm yeah that’s that middle of Middle Eastern scale you familiar with I’ll give you a little poem by one of my favorite poets little by little little by little you will turn into stars even then my friend even then you will only be crawling infant skinning your knees on God Oh little by little little by little you will turn into the whole

52:00

sweet amorous universe in heat on a wild spring night and become so free and conscious one-pointed infinite need for light even then even then the universe will have fulfilled only a fraction just a fraction of a promise that the sky wrote upon your heart as your soul began to never bloom and laugh and spin an eternal ecstasy because little by little little by little you will turn into stars that is one of my favorite pieces by a man named Hafiz maybe you’re familiar with her fees right the

53:16

Palestinian in me loves those great Sufi mystics they have so much beauty to offer the world well I have been a wonderful guest I um you have your own show is on the weekend that’s true mostly conscious dance music and philosophical holiday people find that it’s on Fridays and Saturday nights on 88.5 FM ka ka you the voice of Maui it is called the Maui mystic radio show 7 to 8 p.m. every Friday and Saturday great yeah it’s on tune in and unfortunately I don’t have the studio like you guys do but we’re

53:51

gonna find a way to figure that and that will be awesome and there will be a how become part of that solution I’d be honored thank you for not yes I’m really glad we got to meet me too over to our off-camera can see how we can cross pollinate yes you’re a dream maker and you know you are a welcome part of the vision I see and I can tell you know we’re already together models I think that you know what do we say we’re the perfect time to show each of us that we are together blue and green and black

54:27

and white and pink we all are looking I think we’re all looking for something that being in cooperation can only make it easier and better even on the route to healing just learning to cooperate rather it’s just a real change of heart you’re open hearted you know giving nature is very clear and obvious hello Milo yours too brother well thank you for being here with me I’m honored thank you you know we are this is K aku 88.5 FM radio you can find it on Facebook live you can find it on

55:10

Maui neutral zone dot-com you can find it on YouTube it’s up there with all our shows and while you’re up there look at other shows because all of this fits together mmm some we’re gonna have a show soon we’re all put the pieces together and show you some of the guests that you’ve already seen and how they fit into these solutions like to emails I got a lot right in case your listeners are interested I do have thirteen books and 11 albums that are published and out there dreaming bear net oh great well

55:41

perfect timing because we are gonna say goodbye to you thank you all for joining us here it’s been a pleasure thank you my from oh thank you for listening don’t you well everyone we will see you next week at the neutral zone next week we’re gonna talk about Oh show with Jeff hustle we’re gonna talk about that whole thing that you go to a wild wild country on Netflix check it out we’ll see you next week thank you all for joining us it’s really been a pleasure thank you so much

56:12

and you for being the voice of Maui