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Summary & Timestamped Transcript Below…
[00:03 → 02:32]
Introduction and Context
Jason Schwartz and Scott Bushnell open the show on December 11, 2023, airing on Maui’s local radio and cable TV. They mention upcoming guests, including Dr. Bridget Bongaard from the Maui Cancer Resources organization, and note that the show will pause for the Christmas and New Year holidays. Scott is introduced as a co-host and a swim instructor specializing in helping adults overcome fear and trauma related to swimming. Scott shares a recent success story of teaching two elderly men, both nearly 80, who had lived on Maui’s coast for decades but never learned to swim or snorkel.
Key Insights:
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Scott’s swim lessons focus on overcoming fear and trauma in adults.
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The local marine environment is dynamic, with Scott recently spotting a rare snowflake eel.
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Scott is scheduled for a pacemaker replacement, which he describes as a “new lease on life,” reflecting on the advances in medical technology.
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[03:12 → 07:40]
Discussion on January 6th Events and Media Representation
The hosts debate the January 6 Capitol incident. Scott shares a perspective from friends who were present, describing the event as mostly peaceful with only a few angry individuals. Jason counters with skepticism, noting widespread media coverage showing violence and chaos. Scott suggests the event may have been “staged,” a claim Jason finds novel and surprising.
They discuss the disappearance of some testimonies and evidence related to January 6, referencing a Freedom of Information Act request that reportedly resulted in claims of lost data. Scott explains legal implications: defense attorneys have not been fully supplied with evidence by the government, which is a constitutional breach, and some jailed individuals are appealing based on missing information. Jason expresses disbelief about the lost data but acknowledges the irregularity.
Key Insights:
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Divergent views on January 6: peaceful gathering vs. staged event.
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Allegations of lost or withheld legal evidence complicate the judicial process.
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Media sensationalism influences public perception of events.
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[08:18 → 11:20]
Personal Experiences with Media and Misinformation
Scott reflects on a personal political campaign in the 1990s where he faced malicious attack ads accusing him of harming animals, which were false and emotionally distressing for his family. This experience leads him to distrust negative opinions about individuals unless confirmed personally or by trusted sources. Jason and Scott discuss the complexities of manipulated media narratives and how misinformation can damage reputations and skew public opinion.
Key Insights:
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Personal attacks via media can profoundly impact political careers and personal lives.
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Skepticism toward negative portrayals without firsthand knowledge is warranted.
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Media manipulation remains a persistent challenge in public discourse.
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[11:20 → 16:31]
Political Figures, AI, and Media Consumption
Jason and Scott discuss Donald Trump’s complex public persona, noting Trump’s non-alignment with traditional party politics and his sometimes abrasive communication style. A specific clip is debated where Trump allegedly said he would be a dictator on the first day of a hypothetical presidency; Scott clarifies that Trump’s statements also included intentions to resolve conflicts like the war in Ukraine and Middle East tensions.
The conversation shifts to artificial intelligence (AI) and its growing influence. Scott shares that AI helps him condense and clarify written material, such as client chart notes, but expresses concern about AI’s potential for misuse, including deepfake videos and manipulated audio that blur reality and fiction. They note the shift in news consumption toward short, 15-second clips, which diminishes critical engagement with complex issues.
Key Insights:
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Public figures’ statements can be taken out of context, impacting public trust.
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AI is a powerful tool for productivity but carries risks of misinformation and manipulation.
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The trend toward brief news clips reduces public capacity for nuanced understanding.
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[16:31 → 20:42]
Education, Technology, and Social Skills
The hosts discuss how technology and societal changes are affecting education and interpersonal skills. They note a decline in teaching traditional skills such as cursive writing and basic arithmetic, replaced by reliance on technological tools. Scott highlights how zero-tolerance policies in schools have reduced opportunities for students to engage in conflict resolution, a skill he teaches in jail settings, pointing to a broader social deficit in managing disagreement constructively.
They lament how media sensationalism polarizes society, encouraging people to “dig in” with rigid viewpoints rather than engage in diplomacy or compromise. The importance of slow, detailed political processes—like those broadcasted on C-SPAN—is contrasted with today’s fast-paced, emotionally charged media environment.
Key Insights:
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Overreliance on technology may erode foundational skills and critical thinking.
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Lack of conflict resolution education contributes to social fragmentation.
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Sensationalized media exacerbates political polarization and undermines democratic discourse.
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[20:42 → 23:40]
Science, Advocacy, and Media Narratives
Scott recounts his experience working with biologists during salmon restoration efforts, noting that scientific experts often hold conflicting views but engage in detailed, data-driven discussions. He contrasts this with modern advocacy groups like PETA, which rely heavily on emotional appeals and sensational imagery to shape public opinion, sometimes at odds with scientific findings. The mass media’s role in amplifying emotional narratives often eclipses balanced, fact-based lobbying, affecting policymaking and public understanding.
Key Insights:
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Science-based policy discussions are complex and nuanced but often overshadowed by emotional advocacy.
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Mass media prioritizes compelling narratives over balanced information, influencing public opinion and political decisions.
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[23:40 → 29:51]
Current Political and Economic Concerns
The conversation turns to broader political dissatisfaction, including skepticism about major party candidates and the hope for alternative leaders like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Scott notes that political parties have lost touch with the electorate, and that Trump represents a disruptive figure who doesn’t fully align with either party.
They express doubts about the feasibility of a “magic bullet” solution to international conflicts such as the war in Ukraine, emphasizing the complexity of global diplomacy traditionally requiring patient negotiation by figures like Henry Kissinger. The financial and political support for Ukraine, including $50 billion in aid, is questioned in terms of domestic priorities like education and homelessness.
Key Insights:
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Growing public disillusionment with traditional political parties.
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Complex geopolitical issues resist quick or simplistic solutions.
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Domestic social needs often compete with foreign aid priorities amid constrained resources.
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[29:51 → 36:00]
Historical Power Structures and Economic Inequality
The hosts discuss the historical consolidation of power by wealthy families like the Rockefellers, who controlled oil, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, and education systems over the last century. They question whether society can realign towards equality and peace given entrenched interests.
Jason shares personal financial impacts of inflation, noting how his monthly expenses for oil and electricity have more than doubled in three years, severely affecting his fixed income. Scott echoes similar economic struggles and highlights the widening gap between the wealthy and working class, exemplified by stark contrasts in real estate ownership and income.
Key Insights:
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Historical concentration of power in economic and political realms persists today.
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Inflation and rising living costs disproportionately impact fixed-income and working-class individuals.
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Economic inequality continues to deepen locally and nationally.
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[36:00 → 39:41]
Community Support and Cancer Discussion
Jason reminds listeners about the show’s availability on local radio and cable, as well as online. He previews next week’s guest, Dr. Bridget Bongard from the Maui Cancer Resources, emphasizing the importance of cancer prevention and treatment discussions.
Both hosts share personal health experiences, including ongoing cancer treatments and the promise of new technologies improving outcomes. Scott stresses the role of food quality and environmental factors in cancer development, expressing concern over processed and genetically modified foods.
Key Insights:
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Local media platforms provide access to community-oriented discussions.
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Advances in cancer treatment offer hope, but prevention and lifestyle factors remain critical.
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Concerns over food quality and environmental contributors to disease.
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[39:41 → 42:05]
Health Observations and Personal Reflections
Scott highlights the sudden deaths of several healthy friends due to carditis, an infection of the heart lining, underscoring the unpredictability of health issues. He expresses gratitude for his upcoming pacemaker replacement and reflects on his physical activity history as a former swimmer and water polo player.
Key Insights:
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Carditis poses a sudden health risk even to otherwise healthy individuals.
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Medical technology advancements provide life extensions and improved quality of life.
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[42:05 → 44:58]
Philosophy, Critical Thinking, and Media Literacy
Jason recounts a memorable college philosophy course focused on contemplating simple objects (an apple, melting butter) to illustrate how different perspectives shape understanding. This segues into a broader call for audiences to think critically, question media narratives, and engage in respectful dialogue despite disagreements.
Scott emphasizes the dual nature of technology as a tool that can be used for constructive or destructive purposes, highlighting the importance of personal responsibility and discernment in an age of rapidly evolving digital tools.
Key Insights:
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Critical thinking and perspective-taking are essential skills for navigating complex information.
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Technology is neutral; its impact depends on user intent and ethical application.
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[44:58 → 48:58]
Concerns about AI and Social Responsibility
Scott voices deep concerns about AI development, referencing a Microsoft AI division head who warned about AI’s potential to harm humanity and was subsequently dismissed, illustrating the tension between innovation and caution. They worry about AI’s irreversible integration into society and the difficulty of regulating it post-deployment.
Jason and Scott conclude that enjoying the present moment and fostering personal responsibility are crucial amid technological and societal upheavals. They reiterate the importance of thoughtful communication, especially on social media, to counteract division and negativity.
Key Insights:
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AI presents both unprecedented opportunities and existential risks.
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Ethical oversight and public awareness lag behind technological advancement.
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Individual mindset and communication style can influence social cohesion.
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[48:58 → 53:37]
Local Politics and Media Influence
The hosts discuss the perceived invisibility and limited media coverage of the current Maui mayor, contrasting it with past administrations. They note a recent controversy where FEMA funds intended for rent assistance were used for mayoral security, highlighting issues of transparency and public trust.
They express frustration with sensationalism and negativity dominating discourse and briefly joke about shifting to lighter content like nursery rhymes to ease tension.
Key Insights:
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Local political leadership may be underreported, reducing accountability.
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Misallocation of public funds fuels public skepticism.
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Humor and lighter topics can provide relief amid heavy discussions.
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[53:37 → 55:13]
Community Engagement and Holiday Wishes
Jason and Scott close with holiday greetings and reflections on the importance of generosity, peace, and appreciating family and friends during the holiday season. They emphasize embracing imperfections and enjoying communal moments despite challenges.
Jason announces a community event on December 15 where local businesses and fire-affected residents can offer greetings and support. They encourage kindness and connection, wishing listeners a joyful holiday and a hopeful new year.
Key Insights:
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Holiday season as a time for generosity, reflection, and unity.
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Community events foster connection and healing after local crises.
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Embracing imperfection strengthens social bonds.
Timeline Table of Key Topics
| Timestamp | Topic | Key Points Summary |
|---|---|---|
| 00:03– 02:32 | Introduction, Swim Lessons, Marine Life | Show setup, adult swim lessons, rare snowflake eel sighting. |
| 03:12– 07:40 | January 6 Discussion & Evidence Controversy | Divergent views on Capitol event, lost FOIA evidence, legal issues. |
| 08:18– 11:20 | Media Manipulation & Personal Political Attacks | Experience with false smear campaigns, distrust of media narratives. |
| 11:20– 16:31 | Trump, AI, and Modern News Consumption | Contextualizing Trump clips, AI’s dual role, 15-second news clips. |
| 16:31– 20:42 | Education and Social Skills Decline | Loss of foundational skills, lack of conflict resolution, media polarization. |
| 20:42– 23:40 | Science vs. Advocacy & Media Influence | Science complexity vs emotional advocacy, media shaping policy. |
| 23:40– 29:51 | Political Disillusionment & Geopolitical Realities | Voter dissatisfaction, complexity of war diplomacy, aid controversies. |
| 29:51– 36:00 | Economic Inequality & Inflation Impact | Historical power structures, personal inflation impact, wealth disparity. |
| 36:00– 39:41 | Cancer Prevention & Treatment Advances | Upcoming cancer show, food quality concerns, treatment progress. |
| 39:41– 42:05 | Sudden Health Issues & Medical Technology | Carditis deaths, pacemaker replacement benefits. |
| 42:05– 44:58 | Philosophy & Critical Thinking | College experience on perspective, technology as a tool. |
| 44:58– 48:58 | AI Ethics & Social Responsibility | AI risks, ethical challenges, importance of mindful communication. |
| 48:58– 53:37 | Local Politics & Media Coverage | Mayor’s low profile, FEMA fund misuse, media sensationalism. |
| 53:37– 55:13 | Community Engagement & Holiday Wishes | Event announcement, holiday goodwill, unity and generosity. |
Summary of Key Themes and Insights
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Media and Information: The show critically examines how media shapes public perception, often through sensationalism, leading to polarization and misinformation. Personal experiences illustrate the damaging effects of false narratives. The shift to brief news clips reduces depth of understanding.
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Political Discourse: There is widespread dissatisfaction with traditional political parties and skepticism about political figures, including Donald Trump. Complex geopolitical issues like the Ukraine war require patient diplomacy, not quick fixes.
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Technology and AI: AI is a powerful but double-edged tool, assisting productivity while posing risks of misinformation and ethical dilemmas. The rapid integration of AI into society may outpace regulatory and societal readiness.
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Social and Educational Challenges: Foundational skills such as writing, arithmetic, and conflict resolution are declining due to technological reliance and zero-tolerance policies, negatively affecting social cohesion and critical thinking.
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Health and Environment: Advances in medical technology provide hope, but lifestyle, environmental factors, and food quality remain crucial in disease prevention. Sudden health issues like carditis highlight ongoing vulnerabilities.
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Economic and Social Inequality: Inflation and economic stratification are profound, with rising costs disproportionately impacting those on fixed incomes or lower wages. Historical power structures continue to influence present-day inequalities.
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Community and Personal Responsibility: Despite global challenges, the hosts emphasize individual responsibility, kindness, and community engagement as pathways toward peace and understanding. The holiday season is invoked as a symbolic time for generosity and connection.
This comprehensive summary reflects the nuanced conversation between Jason Schwartz and Scott Bushnell on Maui Neutral Zone, grounded strictly in the provided transcript content.
00:03
well there it is it’s Monday December 11th 2023 I’m Jason Schwartz I’m here with Scott Bushnell and this is the neutral zone Maui neutral zone.com we’re on 88.5 FM k a kuu the voice of Maui and simoc cast on akaku Maui Community media TV on cable channel 55 and you can find this show and all our past shows and a bunch of things at Maui neutral zone.com welcome everyone to our show um I am just looking here at things uh Scott welcome back good morning uh you know um it may seem like December 11th
00:51
is a bit early to talk about Merry Christmas and happy New Year happy Hanukkah Merry Christmas but next week I have actually a gal that’s named I shouldn’t call her maybe it’ be nice Dr Bridget bongard who’s the head of the cancer resources um yeah organization here in Maui and uh that’s when I wanted to schedule her in awesome before the end of the year and um then the following Monday is Christmas and everybody takes off here and um I guess we’re off and then the following one is New Year’s so
01:24
that’s yet another one so we going to miss a couple of weeks so this is our end of the year show and I wanted you to be here rather than sweating out there in the field and delivering content from large you know Scott has been a wonderful wonderful not only friend and co-host here with me but uh Aloha swim lessons.com if you want to um learn how to swim or you have you you deal with everybody but I I guess you have I do I I I’m very specialized in adults who have had fear trauma in their childhood
02:02
and just never got around to like learning to swim I had a couple this this time there actually I just heard from this morning uh they’re both they were both 79 turning 80 they had a condo on the beach here for 30 years and never learned to swim and never snorkel in Maui gosh really yeah and I taught him to swim last uh the last holidays and they’ll be back we’ll be going out and do some more Turtle stuff as long as the water uh looks good so how is the water doing well looks really nice yeah you
02:32
know it it’s time of year it’s like a light switch it can go from beautiful to yeah overnight last week oh my goodness I don’t usually see something I haven’t seen uh Andrew and I were out um scouting some new country and I saw a snowflake eel I have never seen a snowflake eel it’s beautiful it has like a white snowflake pattern on the side of it and it’s dark skinned beautiful e oh my and I I mean I think I’ve seen every sort of sea life in the last in the last Millennia yeah so I was like wow that
03:12
was something new well you know I’m going to miss going in the water on the 20th of this month I get a I want to call it a new lease on life oh yeah I get a replacement paac maker that means these last 11 and a half years this has been a bonus already nice but now I’m going to be given another bonus the new ones are going to be lasting they say 13 to 15 years before they need to be changed I I’ve saw I watched an article where they’re going to have one that’s kind of like your phone where you just
03:43
press it up against your chest and it will charge it once a year I was like well that’s good I was the I asked the heart doctor about that he said actually you really want to get the new model because they keep coming up new things oh yeah yeah maybe AI can turn me into Superman that would be fun oh yeah and I know you’re on the list to get cloned I I saw that when I was at the clinic I said oh Jason wants to get cloned too that’s really really cool speaking of clones I wish someone would clone Donald
04:16
Trump Oh Lordy and reprogram this new one oh I like Don you do I I have friends that have known him their whole life and they and I have friends that I went to college all these things that are going on what do you think of that what things Jason well um how about the January 6th uh episode well I had two friends there and I don’t know what these other media sources are talking about what do you mean I had friends that were there on January 6 and everything was nice and peaceful they were where in Washington DC at the
04:55
capital well that’s I don’t know there were six people that were angry but other than that you get 100,000 people together and only have six angry ones that’s pretty amazing well I I either think that they were there on January 5th no Jason they were not there on Janu I’ve known these people they’re my age no but I mean when you say there’re only a few people there no a few angry people well how did we get all that activity it looks like someone stive media coverage well that’s a really
05:25
interesting perspective I’ve never even heard before oh my goodness Jason that that was all uh a staged I believe so well if you just watched the weather forecast these days and I was talking to my brother this morning he’ll be here next week and I’m really excited but on the Oregon coast we get horrible floods they call it the Pineapple Express there’s this line of wet weather that comes from Hawaii all the way to the Oregon coast and Washington coast and causes floods year after year after
05:55
year and nothing historical about them I mean the last historical flood was in 96 and I I happened to be there at that time but the media comes out and this is what we we’ve talked about in the past if it doesn’t bleed it doesn’t lead they’ve got to sensationalize everything or they don’t have a story well I I just find it very hard this is just me very hard to believe that with all the individual testimonies about what happened what testimony it’s gone they somehow lost it I’m not sure what you
06:30
mean you’re not sure what I mean no what they well the Freedom of Information Act got requested and they said they accidentally deleted it I’m not sure we’re talking about the same thing we’re talking about January 6 all those hearings you think that all those hearings are not findable they should be I’m sure they are they sure because the the attorneys that were uh uh representing some of those men that were there if you go to trial the opposition or the state or the the federal
07:03
government if you’re going up against the federal government or you’ve created a felony or done something like that you’re the opposing Council has to provide you with all possible information opposing Council never supplied the attorneys of the men that have been sitting in jail now for two years with all that information even though they were bound to under our constitution and Juris Prudence for the state or the for the District of columia Washington DC were bound under those law
07:40
by PR if you be dispart if you don’t supply all the information you have they did not and now because of the pellet Court some of the people that are in jail for January 6 are appealing and the attorneys have requested that information and the response they’ve gotten is that information does no longer exist we’ve lost it um I believe that that’s what you believe but I can hardly imagine I can hardly imagine it too Jason because if that is true copy of absolutely right no question I do not question that at all
08:18
something’s something’s not right something’s screwy but put that aside and put everything else aside I still want a clone of Donald Trump because every time I see him maybe you like him and you know people that like him as a person that’s maybe and I don’t doubt that he can be personable yeah I haven’t really understood his approach let me let me take let me take you back let me take you back to a fun story um and and this is something that that my dad taught me he says you know
08:50
never judge a man that you have not met I’ve never met Donald Trump okay I haven’t either yeah so to rely on somebody that I don’t know to give me an P an opinion on someone back in the 19 early 1990s I was running for the Oregon legislature I had served on a committee for the restoration of SE restoration of the salmon after Mount St Helens exploded I remember and it was a joint committee and we listened to testimony about this and that excuse me and so I started I said I’m just going to run for the State
09:25
House during that time I was the shoe in winner at one point and because during that time sitting on that committee the sea mammals act came into play to protect seals and sea lions right that here we go this happens about 1979 that was passed I totally was on board with it made sense here we are we have this catastrophic event we lose all the estuaries where salmon eggs salmon spawn now we have seals and sea lines I proposed a suspension of the sea mammals Act so that they would they would man
10:01
manage seal and seal and populations in the estuaries to help the salmon recover certain organizations that generally speaking I don’t really disagree with a lot but sometimes decided to run an attack ad attack ads on me they created pictures of me killing baby seals with Spike baseball bats they put on a campaign to call people and tell them that I was killing baby seals up in the Arctic and on the beaches they called my mother who was 80 some years old at the time and convinced her that I was killing baby
10:43
seals that’s the kind of thing so if I hear someone say anything bad about someone I will absolutely categorically disbelieve it until I hear it directly from that person or someone I trust that’s interesting and I don’t deny that kind of a thing yeah I’m that is horrible and I’m sorry that happened and so in that situation I’m guessing you didn’t get into the no I did not no but I learned so much you learned that a manipulated Media or manipulated direct calling anything it’s really a complex
11:20
World we’re living in right well I’m just right now I mean then maybe we should put that subject aside but I personally I remember before there was a trump president there was a trump in New York yeah and I remember sadly construction people that were working that never got paid and all that goes can we can we get them on the phone not now we can’t but again but before we go to those lengths okay there’s a lot more current things that have been happening that um I I don’t think anything is
11:55
going to be a bigger story than on election that nobody wants either of the major candidates and that’s why I’m working on I’m working on Kennedy’s Kennedy election how’s that for a surprise move oh it’s fun I like the guy no but it’s really an interesting experience we’re coming into a time where the world we’re going to have another telt last and before that it was Lincoln everybody’s that the party’s lost touch with the people both parties have completely lost there’s no doubt
12:34
we’ve got a Donald Trump who has doesn’t really agree with anything on either party he’s like half Democrat half Republican and you never know where he’s at well you always know exactly where he’s at but you know he doesn’t have a nice way of letting you know that so that’s what I mean that’s what I talk about a trump 2.0 I really wonder about his very costic uh delivery well feels like it feels like he’s ready to take down everyone and then he uses words and and
13:06
stands upon them that he’ll only be a dictator for the first day of his pres what kind of thing is that even to say I’ve never heard him say that Jason that’s here say again I heard it but I heard it i i instead of the dictator we’ve had the last three years no I just heard I heard the clip and and then I heard when he when he was trying to explain the clip and he basically repeated that the first day he had real strong stand on the wall and on drilling for oil and not starting any
13:36
new Wars well that was I’m talking about the day one when he said he’d be a dick he could have persuaded anyone and do those things did you hear in that same clip how he said I’ll have I’ll be on the phone with Putin and we’re going to finish this War I will go to the Middle East and I will get this settled are those things you disagree with I never heard that one wow you need to listen and read the whole thing no no no I’m not reading I was looking at a clip where they were saying I say
14:03
Donald you said that on the first day of your uh new presidency were you to win the election that you would be a dictator only for the first day what kind of a way is that even to talk we know the interesting thing I’m seeing and this is uh this is kind of scary world we’re living in and I actually I have taught so many lessons to people um that I I have friends from India that I taught to swim cuz they ended up stuck here during covid and they’re both very intelligent highly specialized people
14:38
and the reality is and actually they’re citizens the United States but we now I can take 30 minute video of you Jason if I can’t they can word I know that and you cannot tell it apart I saw a story on CBS yesterday where they were showing Mark Zuckerberg oh yeah and and words and that they all now we see we’ve watched this AI thing coming and why is it that when we have decisions about what to do with AI uh why we don’t get much more aware that this thing is already out of the it
15:17
I love my AI I have it on my phone it’s Heavenly what do you use it for I use it for uh you no no I don’t replace me but when I like write papers and I dictate for my chart note sometimes and I kind of get lost in my words and I actually ask it to condense it a little bit or you know because I have a tendency to get wordy me get wordy no no not possible but I actually you know if I write two three paragraphs uh chart notes on a client and I go wow I can’t put that in I mean I’m supposed to just you mean to
15:53
be diplomatic as why no not diplomatic I just need to condense what I’m saying sometimes well there’s no question that things like that are very very helpful my concern is what you referenced which is very clear yeah that someone can manipulate a voice U both phys uh what do we say visually everything and audio and create something that for all intents and purposes they talk about the Tom Cruz exam Tom Crow couple years ago they did this thing no one could tell the difference of which was real and which
16:31
was it’s scary so that’s what’s scary that we’re now moving we’re getting 15c Clips they have realized now with all these new platforms are out there and there’s a lot that these 15sec clips are how most people are getting their news now so they never really like okay I’m going to click on a story in the New York Times I’m going to read it now now now let me digest that no it’s 15 seconds is the attention span of the American public so where are we going where are we going
17:02
Jason you know right I know it’s crazy well so then why when I think about that yeah and I think about the world we live in okay I’m very concerned I’m we’re taking instead of writing something and realizing that okay it’ll be a little clumsy but I want the polished version to go in for me and then everybody’s using these tools so that when you look at where is the real aptitude of individuals right it’s almost like we don’t teach people how to write uh in script in cursive only printing uh we
17:43
don’t really have to have people understand how to add subtract multiply and divide they can use a device so right we’re starting to be we’re replacing our skills as beings with skills to use tools with tools right and we’re replacing all the things are going to replace our jobs now that might be really great if when their jobs are replaced the people that are this has been since the Industrial Revolution this hasn’t stopped this isn’t new no but it’s not but cyclative it is
18:20
cyclative and now it’s at a point where it could you know it could shift the want I say balance of power it has balance and power are words that go together but anyway it’s the Rockefellers back in the 1800s they this is this is not a new story it’s cyclative so we just have to keep up and if we’re not parting to keep up then we just get pushed aside we have a generation coming up and you were just on it the school the whole thing like that we have taken something away from our schools and this is something that I
18:55
get constant constant conf conflict with teachers that I know with it said we put in this Zero Tolerance in schools makes sense nobody should be bullied nothing like that but when kids are so afraid to have any kind of conflict with their peers then they never learn conflict resolution that’s what I teach at the jail is conflict sad you have to get to a jail before you learn a skill you should have been learning yeah because kids aren’t allowed to argue or have disagreements cuz teachers just calm
19:30
that down but I can disagree I have some of my best friends that I’ve never agreed with anything ever ever and we get in these huge heated debates and we still have dinner it’s just like but that’s fun but they don’t but that’s gone away because you can State your points and be very much in disagreement and not be disagreeable and they quit teaching that it is the same thing with like I was talking about the weather it’s sensationalized everything’s sensationalized so that you just want to
20:06
you know plant your flag dig your ground and now we’re in the now our country is we have a flag planted here for one person a flag planted here for another person and nobody realizes that the statesmanship and the diplomacy that goes on to make a republic work because the media remember that station it might still be on cable that station um C-SPAN where you just sit there and watch the proceedings of the Senate and the house boring is oh my God I found it riveting I was just going to remind you about the seven words but I
20:42
think you caught yourself in the middle of sentence but it’s riveting it’s absolutely riveting to for me as a political scientist I loved it because that’s how you know and and that’s and that was a great takeaway the seal comment I made about how I was attacked by the the people who love animals which I love animals no okay when I was on that Council to help salmon restoration I had some of the best they were some of the best biologists from Oregon State and Washington State these guys had
21:13
incredible educations and they had an absolute opposite way of wanting to solve the problem it was boring listening to all this but it was yet riveting but you take biologists now who have great science on both sides of the issue and all of a sudden they’re having to turn into salesmen and that’s what the lobby does basically or used to do before the lobby now is the mass media we’ve replaced our lobby where if you told a senator or representative something and it came out to be a lie
21:48
bam your lobby card is gone and you can no longer speak or go inside Chambers but with mass media we convince the people in this on our in our country of something and then they flood Senators offices and now the senator is thinking oh my God my con constituency is thinking this way instead of having somebody from the lobby who has facts and figures from both sides and that’s what a lobbyist would do if I work for the beef Council or I work for PETA I’ll have two different separate opinions but
22:22
somewhere in the middle and that’s what a representative does and that’s what a senator does takes what the beef Council wants takes what Peta wants and then in that snoring slow boring world of C-SPAN not not ESPN Not c not CNN C-SPAN they would work that out and that’s the negotiative state and how things move forward in this country but now we have we have Peta going to the National Geographic Society peta’s going to all this and they have well meaning I mean I’ve been a member of the Pacific well
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foundation since its beginning I absolutely believe in their cause but when it gets sensationalized and then nobody goes well what’s going on here and then they create beautiful pictures of how horrible things are happening with people that are fishing and they can move the narrative without science because there’s science that Peta has their science that the fishing industry has and somehow they’re supposed to meet but if you can control the big media picture sure bam now you don’t need a
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lobbyist you don’t need real facts you need a beautiful presentation that moves the heart and makes you want to hug that puppy and that’s baby seal so science was gone but I guess then um I don’t know what we’re even arguing about because basically you know you talk about sitting down and having dinner and smiling and being I don’t like Donald Trump I am sorry whatever pieces I’ve seen I believe and I’m sorry because before everything when he was in New York and it didn’t matter when
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people weren’t getting paid that was really on the street when it got it got sensationalized in many ways but I just don’t know what to say I I’m concerned that the general I I don’t think I’m unique in any way that the world is that thing about going to hell in a hand basket the world is at such a fragile point for us to be able to see I think people are fragile I don’t think the world’s fragile not at all well I think that the world is fragile the way it’s going at it like
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right now for example I’ll give you in my idea it’s fragile in that people are fighting each other when when you try to look behind what is it that each of these groups want as a people they want to be able to live their lives have gainful employment feed their families have a general good quality of living I for everyone I don’t think there’s any shortages so that’s how I look at but yet I see the polarization based on Greed and fear here and you just talk about manipulation of the media and it’s just
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horrible the media is creating stories I let’s let’s draw this back okay let’s get back to Ukraine for just a short minute I wasn’t sure we were there oh I know we’ve got to go there so okay uh last November not this last November year before I had you a huge Ukrainian family part of them lived in New York and the rest had come from Kev and I had them their kids and swim lessons I had we all went snorkeling I spent two weeks with this family and they were shocked that no one was telling anybody
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that half the Ukrainian population wanted Putin to come in well I I heard that in the media well yeah and and they were just like we were really looking forward to that because of the corruption in cuz they they had to close their church and they were so angry that this gentleman over there now had closed their churches again yeah fir no no again that’s why I’m saying where is our world going I don’t really think that anyone’s going to come in no I don’t think a trump could go talk to Putin and say
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okay War’s over what are we kidding who’s going to you think those other countries that are involved are going to be listening to Donald Trump and letting him take the lead when he pulled out of agreements on climate we the only one one in the world that said no no no was America and on and on well I don’t want to go down the list but I mean why is now going to be any different where a Magic Bullet will come out of someone like that you’ve got to you know it took Kissinger to go to
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China why somebody’s got to have the konas and now be it Donald Trump be it uh uh Mr Kennedy somebody’s got to go and just sit down and they got to Hash it out we can’t sit here I mean the news the news stations right now are going broke because they have to sensationalize everything to sell anything we’ve watched Fox News has lost 80% of its market share CNN has closed 3/4 of its buildings because they’re going broke all the major news corporations are going broke well that’s
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an interesting people are just stepping away and then there’s some people who focus on one news organization and I have some beautiful friends I love and I I can tell which news they’re watching by what their blogs are saying and it’s just like it’s real easy and it’s like you got to listen to everything and take it all in if you’re afraid to watch Fox or if you’re afraid to listen to uh some some of the jewi podcasters who I find very disdainful but I podcasters what does
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that mean people that have got hundred millions millions of followers um who I’m a Jew you mean this oh yeah and they and they have a total distake from what the rest Fox News and CNN and CS CBS completely different you know I did not know that the Israelis had broken a peace deal right before we sent $50 billion to Ukraine what the hell we could have given all of our teachers raises we could have made sure all the homeless 80 80 freaking billion dollars you know what that would do for the homeless
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population across this country we could have bought everybody a house well but we wouldn’t we even if we had the money we wouldn’t let’s not forget that part yeah okay but now when when I hear those things I I find it I find it difficult we go back to where we were last week yeah they went off the gold standard and the world is printing money printing money and plan you just talk about 80 billion to build houses and this and that yeah there’s no reality here cuz no it’s Monopoly
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money and it’s still the same game it’s Monopoly it’s the game that the Rockefellers and oh say let’s let’s let’s look back Rockefeller knew that if he controlled the oil back in the early days of the automobile he’d control everything and then they realized okay we control the oil if we control the chemicals oh now we have more control hey what if we control the Pharmaceuticals bam what if we discovered and created the education system and we had one that bril American
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Medical Association we can go all over so yeah we understand that the power control is the of few that were the Brokers of power at that time so here we are 100 years later however many years later is there any way to get this train back on a track toward equality peace peace and peace and peace I think that lays in the heart of each American because we are the government I am the government you are the government and as long as we speak out and speak from our heart it’s good well how we not we are we are
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a colletive you just talked about the 84 billion that went to the Ukraine right um I just I’m very concerned that we can’t deescalate you know it’s like it’s like our inflation it’s just a shock when you if you don’t go to McDonald’s it’s worth going in to see that this little hamburger used to be able to feed the Homeless 99 cent burgers are now $3 or three some and everything is escalating to a point where and the wages surely aren’t so what’s happening we’re getting a working
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class that is just scraping to survive never mind luxuries and then those that are the the ones that have are doing really good I have a friend that was crying she didn’t have any real estate deals then someone walks into the office and says I I want to buy a three-bedroom in my building I already own two others MH for three plus million dollar cash and yet we hear the interest rates are high so those that have having a nothing’s changed nothing’s changed no but it’s getting worse that’s my
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consideration here like here on our Island when when the Wildfire it isn’t Wild maybe whatever is going on happened everyone is affected not only the people in that area you I really have a hard time when you get down to homeless and you get down to to the place where people at the very basic level of subsistence aren’t helped across the board but only if you were in that area and you were specifically in the Wildfire by a definition that they Define are you getting help but there are still people
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suffering horribly there are and there’s insufficiency in our housing May is that being clouded by the fact that we had this fire and now we need so many things we needed so many things before there was a fire and now things have gone up there’s no way to bring these you’re going to see these rents coming down I I I see an I see a large adjustment all the economists that I follow that I trust that are really really controversial generally speaking um and the one fellow that I followed I get a I
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get a mail from him uh one of those newsletters and right before the crash of 2008 I had three I owned three properties at once at that time I was flipping properties and I bought two of them on arms so that I could get real low right off the bat small payment small pay not small pay those were in New Mexico see I also I had 11 houses that caboi yeah so what happened to your situation my situation was I I could have short sold those on his his not he didn’t tell me directly but I read it and I he said if you’re holding
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assets and they’re on an arm if you can’t convert the arm and hold the interest rate down unload them right now and I held off and I held off and next thing you know interest rates went up I couldn’t roll them oh it was brutal just brutal right so yeah yeah we both made we’ I’ve I’ve we’ve I’ve made some incredibly great mistakes in my life me too what are they mistakes maybe these are the lessons we’ve been meant to learn yeah they are every day there’s a
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something learn look how much you appreciate your life all that stuff it’s almost like a a lifting of a burden you know sometimes people can spend all their eny tracking and building their assets and forget what it means to experience you know so so here on Maui I I I was thinking this the other day I I got the bills uh for for uh November and basically I spend about $554 giving that to the oil companies each month uh 256 goes to Maui Electric who buys diesel to makes us oil to makes us electricity and the other one goes to
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Maui Oil which I absolutely love I’ve been member that Co-op forever and I was like wow okay so and I was looking CU I had the the the thing I have all my Mai oil things I like I use the exact same amount of gallons that I did three years ago my bill three years ago was $139 so now that 554 which used to be $225 and I’m going like okay I’m on a fixed income and it’s like okay so inflation infected me by 118% so everything is basically doubled in a little of what I have left after I
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pay rent pay car insurance no no doubt and the two big bills are gas in the cars and utility yeah electricity so I’m like okay so that means comparatively to back just a few years ago I inflation has hit me by 118% well and I have similar situation and I’m sure we’re not even close to being alone no God no go I’m just lucky I have a partner it’s still in the working Community but by the way I just want to break in and do the official we are 88.5 FM k a KU the voice of Maui and akaku Maui
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Community media television channel 55 on cable you can find this show and all the other shows and more at Maui neutral zone.com where we have a search engine there you can search literally hundreds and hundreds of shows and I just wanted to break that in you know as we speak I think to myself you know boy we talk and we just we talk about our opinions and stuff and this is fun and I think that’s why I’m next week doing it’ll be opinion also but talking with the head of a cancer thing yeah I mean that that’s an area we
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used to have a lady here um Mary Marg that did shows with medical people I don’t think she’s doing stuff here at K kuu at the moment that uh Co thing blew but I met this lady When I Was Here There was an event outside and um I thought it would be a good subject so that’s the reason we’re not going to be here by the way merry Christmas happy New Year everyone oh yeah 202 can you believe 2024 I wasn’t supposed to live this speaking of cancer I wasn’t supposed to live this long I moved home
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and I was set up for hospice you were yeah when I moved back uh 10 years ago I had hospice all dialed in my blood couldn’t get my uh blood figured out Dr at Taho down over here ataha over here at the Cancer Institute in Wu got me dialed in all of a sudden I’m like wow I feel better he started he looked at my medications that with Dr Wolf who used to be in La she she retired and she’s gone they got me dialed in and next thing you know I was like okay I spent all my savings I’m on Maui um
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running the farm for the family I said I can’t do the farm thing I don’t want to work 24/7 7 days a week okay move move to keii to a tiny little apartment on just across the street from the beach but it’s like no cancer is a lifechanger it really is and I mean I had cancer back in my college Years and then again and then uh you know I’ve been going for blood work over at the infusion center here uh the last four weeks but they’ve got it dialed into to the point with the new technologies that
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you know they just give me a cocktail mix and I’m gotten so used to it it’s like we’re good to go and I’m I’m sure there are all kinds of ways to address cancer situations the one that I’m interested in which I will see if our uh director of the cancer is the one about prevention food the one about what are we putting in to create this monster how is Honey Boo Boo’s sister at 29 years Honey Boo Boo yeah that’s a media thingy no nobody do you know anyone here named
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Honey Boo Boo no not that probably isn’t working the street [Laughter] 20 I you children out there you don’t understand that yeah traffic traffic traffic 29 years old having carcinoma I mean pretty common yeah but the food that we’re food that we’re eating Jason is horrible unbelievable my one of my thinks to do today after leaving here is I’m going to go over here to the uh the market which has amazingly good stuff and try to find flour that has not been processed or not been genetically modified or put fed all
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these things that they keep treating our food with yeah why is it that all of these things that we’ve gotten bloated with diabetes they don’t exist in Africa they don’t exist in India well you know why because if you put these things on crops yeah and then they get processed it’s less expensive I don’t think it was done nethery though I think they did it because they wanted to make sure everybody got fed and there again is a chance then they couldn’t undo it so I could talk about all they didn’t
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know the outcome like my 11 friends who have dial from have died from carditis in the last 18 months what is carditis it’s some kind of a heart problem that just comes on suddenly and they just di wow yeah they’re all my age they’re all um very active no nothing they just boom gone my one friend used to ride his bike up to the crater and back when he had visit a couple times a week these are really healthy guys I I was going to say you have friends that drive up and down on a bicycle who yeah I’m the I’m the
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old fat one of the group I was a swimmer and a water polo player in college some of my friends never lost their Edge man they look good and then they Dro dead just all of a sudden they thought they had indigestion and blah blah blah and they go in and then all of a sudden there’s an infection in the lining of the heart and poof wow yeah well I’m I’m real happy to be getting a a pacemaker oh I know I was hoping you get a labotomy but you know I can only CR my fingers crossed on that one you still got a
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shot put in your put in your bid see what they they come at me and this is Jason’s old brain we have it on the Shelf over here in from the high yeah my brain has been pretty well I almost feel like you know I’m retired from really taking hard punches but I don’t think I’ve made any hard punches okay I was like you you live you were a teenager in the 60s I was just a child a very young child in the 60s you must have had a wild time back then well let me see where was I you were in New York yeah I
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was in New York 1969 I gr what studio whatever that was that was a little I was a little too young for Studio 54 that was 54th Street in in New York City I did not know it was on 54th Street I just thought it was the name of Studio I learned something today Jason I will go home a happier man oh I knew that that’s why I brought you here I just here to please you when we sit here I know you’re having fun and so am I but do you have a desired out come when we do these shows I know I do I actually want to get our
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audiences to start thinking about some of the things that we’re saying get more active Ina in being more critically thinking about the news that they’re digesting yeah and and starting to treat each other better yeah and and realize that if you’re going to say something on social media just dial it back 20 years and walk up and think about walking up to somebody and saying that to their face wow that would sure change how a lot of people post today no but it’s It’s upsetting to me
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that it doesn’t stop and it’s not slowing down I I think we’ve reached a saturation point and that’s with any social change um it’s so as a a someone who studies social science and things of that nature we go through these cycl cycles and so right now we’re in this cycle where we all have our cell phones I mean and we’re not young and we can operate these very well it’s a new tool and like any tool you can either cut your hand off with it if if you’re not using it right or it can become the
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most amazing thing that you can do wonderful things with that same tool that may have been in a car it might have been in the tool shed 150 years ago you could carve a beautiful carving or you could cut your hand cut your leg and kill yourself so it’s a tool and you use that word earlier and it was a brilliant brilliant analogy of what we’ve got we’ve got new tools and we’re all just learning how to carve and we’re all learning how to make something hope y beautiful with these new tools but we
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got to realize there’s people that are carving stuff up that’s really ugly and they have an agenda and they’re trying to manipulate us so take everything with a grain of salt I do but I’m I’m very concerned I mean when I heard that thing about Microsoft not Microsoft chairman their they had an AI Division and that the the head guy said something at the board that he lied to them that he really is concerned that this is something that could you know destroy Mankind and then they let him go and
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then everyone screamed and then he went back on again it’s Skynet I’m very concerned that that by the time we get to even make a choice about things it’s already locked in and it’s difficult to undo right so I know what that means except we better be very much enjoying the present moment mhm and learning to make this moment a good moment and what we do a good thing like you talked about all this personal responsibility people might take if they recognize that if they said that 20
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years ago they’d have to really tone it down because someone’s liable to come at them with a right it’s not just not randomly off the cuff watch something they see on TV or on a 10c flip but if they don’t that’s my thing if we don’t that’s the thing about AI if we don’t the tendency again that’s just my conclusion the tendency is a ball rolling downhill I think who was that Newton one of them uh will continue and will continue to roll downhill unless there’s an equal
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and opposite Force coming at it right there is no equal and opposite Force things are rolling down the hill but when it comes to AI and I I going back to my dad again he told me about this and I it blew my mind when my dad was very young uh they got a radio you know my father be 106 years old now something like that and um my when my grandfather brought the radio home and they would listen to it my grandmother made my grandfather when my dad was very small in the 1920s take the radio and put it in the
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garage because she was worried that they were going the radio they could hear them and what they were talking about in their house and things this was in the 1920s perceptive it is and that and that was a hundred years ago and there and we’re still these are the same questions we’re looking at today you sound like somebody changing subjects I love the way you work it’s really good oh we have you should you should come to the pool and walk with us when we walk we just and Jason used to walk
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with me I walk you know from from W all all the way through the beaches and key I try to do that every day to keep healthy that is just amazing and we would just talk and talk and talk I want to be back doing it again but I’m not ready I can’t even come into the pool at least know it sucks a month after I’m going to have to swim oh my God you know I have so much fun talking to you but we’re talking about subjects that have such I think critical importance to the way the world is
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developing but I know that our president is not reaching out to listen to me or you even no I know and you know you’ve got like you say you have an a lot of reach through the people you know I do I used to think oh I know all these people on Maui I’m interviewing all these people on Maui I’m going to really be able to make a difference because I’ll be able to talk to them personally where if I never got involved I wouldn’t be able to get up close and really give them and then I
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get really up close and now they’re not looking to see me they don’t have time for me and or they uh find and I guess that’s often true they find reasons to um find other things more important and I feel and you’re stuck with Scott and all you do is just shake your head going oh god I’ve got Scott another day I can’t get the mar I like having you on because no I I don’t even when I say the mayor somehow this mayor has been more invisible than previous Mayors and again
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that’s a product of how much the media is covering the mayor is still the mayor doing the same kind of things he was doing right I mean a mayor does Mayor things mayor things and that’s busy life these days yeah did you hear the recent one that money that could have gone to helping pay the rent $100,000 worth of money and the FEMA money went to extra security for the mayor I did not know that I would Happ to see that no no that was just in the last day so everyone wants to tell everyone how
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they’re spending what they’re doing what they’re doing it and the sensationalism of things and so much negativity maybe we should just go on here and do Nursery rides for now oh that would be fun Jason you’re a great you’re a great writer I mean you could make a oh dude yeah you know how do you write nursery rhymes with AI that sounds take some Jason you’re from That 70s era you know just isn’t that what they did back then they sat around and like talked and you know smoked and like d and talked
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about things I don’t know just I’m messing with you I’m messing you’ve met people who done that nursery rhyme writers oh sh I I’ll tell you you know I went to a so I went to a social science school it wasn’t an engineering school or anything but it was like yeah I had this one Professor uh Dr tangar and Alexander I loved her to death what’s her first name tangren Alexander and I I was in college in the 80s and she I took the one class that was more than one class I took
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Philosophy from her and she came in one day and put an apple on the table got on the table sat their cross leg and she was staring at the Apple was we’re going to contemplate an Apple today and the conversation that was derived off of that amazing and then the next day she brought in a tub of butter and she put it on a plate and this was early in the fall so it was still warm out and we all sat around for two and a half hours watching the butter melt we talk and we create stories and we we just go in our mind and do all
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these kind of things I was like that was the weirdest period in my my college career I will tell you but I still have stories from it because it was like how to think outside the box how to see how other people see things completely different than you do you know it’s pretty amazing that we can all look at the exact same thing and see something different well one thing that I think we all see is that in four minutes boy I can’t really look is that right I I can’t even see yeah my wife says stand
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up oh so and in handful of minutes we’re going to be off the air and I why don’t we get out of all this controversy and merry Christmas happy New Year happy H I hope that everyone out there can find some Joy this holiday season and you know remember there was a song um Save a Horse Ride a Cowboy well I think yeah they played that in San Francisco bars I’m sure I’m sure they [Music] did well but I would like to think that if people out there have this is a season to be generous and I really hope
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that everyone around the world but surely here on Maui can put down their swords and their attack mode and start to appreciate the moment and each other in a healthy way healthy way healthy way I mean that used to be that used to be the measure of a family is how they did it the holidays cuz you’ve always got one one uncle that was drunk and passed out by 2: in the afternoon you got one aunt that’s going to tell Grandma how to cook I mean it’s just it’s that’s the beauty of the holidays though embrace it
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enjoy it you know it’s a it’s it’s just it’s beautiful I have to think back do I remember any ants that were drinking and cooking yeah I guess so you know it’s it’s been a long time because I don’t have any kids and I haven’t in my adult life I haven’t been able to really have that family experience except with friends oh yeah the friends around here on Mau you know is a a large group of I want to say orphan stepchildren there are a lot of a lot of people that have um grown kids
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and they here on solo we only have a oh God is that I can’t see Scott can you see does that say two minutes or does that say one minute or 12 minutes that’s what this shows ises that s oh yeah we got a couple of minutes only wow yeah you know you are always a good guest because you never make it boring you always break it up Scott AR Bush now our co-host private swim lesson have a very Merry Christmas and Happ Merry Christmas Jason happy Hanukkah today’s Hanukkah yeah I think we’re on the yeah we’re on
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the second day of light third day of light lighting yeah we’re there we’re even further along in I know one of my one of my my oldest child converted to Judaism back when he got married I want to also announce that on December member 15th from noon till 6 the public can come in if you’re a business or affected by the fire it’s free otherwise a $50 donation you can come and offer up a greeting so come on down to akaku and be in touch and you’ll be able to find out about that we got enough time for some
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music what is that music R closing come on is that right happy New Year everyone Aloha we’ll see see you again next year
Key Themes and Insights
- Media Skepticism and Critical Thinking: The hosts emphasize the importance of questioning mainstream narratives, seeking multiple sources, and maintaining personal judgment.
- Political and Social Polarization: A recurring concern is the deepening divide in society fueled by media, sensationalism, and loss of civil discourse.
- Technology’s Double-Edged Sword: AI and social media offer tremendous benefits but also pose threats to truth, privacy, and human skills. Responsible use and regulation are critical.
- Economic Inequality and Inflation: Rising living costs and systemic inequities underscore the fragility facing many families, especially in isolated communities like Maui.
- Health and Longevity: Personal stories highlight advances in medical care but also raise awareness about lifestyle, environment, and prevention.
- Community and Connection: Despite challenges, the hosts advocate for kindness, dialogue, and collective civic responsibility as foundations for a better future.
ne host Jason Schwartz welcomes his First co-host Scott R Bushnell for the last time in 2023. Conversation goes from Maui Mayor to Trump to news media spin to… watch & see.
