GENE “MAUKA” SIMPSON — Witnessed Assassination of MALCOLM X

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Published on 02/20/2015 by Jason Schwartz

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Jason Schwartz in Maui, Hawaii, interviews GENE “MAUKA” SIMPSON, top flight radio reporter at WMCA Radio, #1 rated station in NY at the time, during the height of the 1960’s, Beatles, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Robert F Kennedy and many more. Gene has vintage recordings of his interviews with them and has an important part of Americam history to document 2-20-2015

Summary & Transcript Below…

  • Colorful elderly man with glasses, wearing a cap and tropical shirt, in front of green screen background.

    Portrait of a senior man with glasses, wearing a cap and yellow shirt against a green screen backdrop.

    Jason Schwartz introduces his guest, Gene Simpson, also known as Mauka, a well-known figure on Maui, Hawaii. Mauka is recognized both as an artist and as a former reporter. Gene shares that 50 years ago he was a New York City radio reporter and notably present at the Audubon Ballroom during the assassination of Malcolm X. This interview aims to explore Gene’s firsthand experiences and archival materials related to Malcolm X and other civil rights figures

  • Elderly man with gray beard and glasses wearing outdoor gear at Maui Neutral Zone, Hawaii.

    [01:22] Gene Simpson’s Audio Archive and Intentions
    Gene explains that he has maintained a private audio archive spanning over fifty years, containing recordings related to Malcolm X, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Floyd McKissick, and other civil rights and Vietnam War figures. Although he has attempted to develop these materials into educational programs for schools, he has struggled to find support. He expresses a desire to write books and create screenplays based on his extensive experiences, but today the focus will be on the Malcolm X story.

  • [02:44] Role of Radio Journalism in the 1960s and Gene’s Career at WMCA
    Jason notes that during the 1960s, radio was the primary news medium, as television was not yet dominant. Gene worked for WMCA, a leading rock-and-roll and top-rated New York radio station, known for introducing the Beatles to America. He recounts his vibrant career, including his connections with prominent music figures and managers. On February 21, 1965, a Sunday and his day off, Gene independently decided to cover the escalating Malcolm X story, recognizing its significance amidst the tense atmosphere in New York.
  • Colorful green screen background with two men discussing, emphasizing Maui Natural Zone and conservation efforts.

    [04:22] Accessing the Audubon Ballroom and Press Credentials
    Gene describes how he and several other black reporters, who were deeply interested in Malcolm X’s story, went to the Audubon Ballroom to cover the event. Despite holding official press credentials, they were told to remove them upon arrival because Malcolm X and his entourage distrusted the white press, fearing biased or inaccurate coverage. The black reporters were allowed entry only as “brothers” without representing news organizations, highlighting the distrust between Malcolm X’s group and mainstream media at the time.

  • [07:00] Positioning at the Event and the Rising Tension
    Gene chose to sit in the front row near the lectern where Malcolm X was to speak, wanting to witness and hear the event firsthand. He underscores the immense tension surrounding Malcolm X at the time, due in part to his falling out with his mentor Elijah Muhammad and escalating threats to his life. The recent firebombing of Malcolm X’s home in Queens added to the charged atmosphere, making his public address at the ballroom a highly anticipated and dramatic event.
  • [10:16] Covering the Firebombing and Neighborhood Context
    Gene recounts covering the aftermath of the firebombing at Malcolm X’s residence, noting the surprising fact that Malcolm and his family lived in a predominantly white, “lily-white” neighborhood. This highlighted the racial and social dynamics of the era. He arrived with his professional tape recorder to document the scene, emphasizing his dedication to capturing history as it unfolded.
  • [11:39] The Anticipation and Purpose of Malcolm X’s Speech
    Malcolm X had promised to reveal critical information during this speech, including his analysis of the civil rights movement and the future path for the black community in America. Gene was seated, waiting expectantly with the audience for the event to begin, aware that this was not just a routine speech but a pivotal moment.
  • [12:38] Event Commencement and Malcolm X’s Traditional Entrance
    The event began with an emcee introducing Malcolm X, who entered the stage with the customary Muslim greeting “As-salamu alaykum,” to which the audience responded in kind. This ritual underscored the religious and cultural context of Malcolm X’s role as a minister and leader within the Nation of Islam and the broader Muslim community.
  • [14:07] The Incident that Triggered Violence
    The calm was abruptly disrupted when someone in the back of the room shouted “Get your hands out of my pocket,” implying a pickpocketing incident. This caused confusion and alarm in the crowd. Gene explains the context of the venue—Harlem, near Columbia Presbyterian Hospital—and the likelihood of such disturbances. Malcolm X tried to calm the crowd with a gesture akin to “chill out,” but the situation escalated quickly.
  • Man with gray beard and hair in front of green screen at Maui Neutral Zone.

    [16:40] The Assassination and Weapons Used
    Suddenly, shots rang out. A police investigation later determined that three types of weapons were used: a .45 caliber handgun, a .38 caliber handgun, and a sawed-off shotgun. Malcolm X was shot multiple times, with bullet holes discovered both in the room’s walls and in his chest. He fell backward at the lectern as chaos erupted.

  • [17:54] Venue Conditions and Aftermath
    The Audubon Ballroom was primarily a dance hall, described as shabby and makeshift, with collapsing wooden chairs. Shockingly, ballroom dancing continued in the same room that night. Gene recalls that the black community took ballroom dancing seriously, and Malcolm X himself had been known for his stylishness and dancing skills earlier in life. Despite the gravity of the assassination, police response was delayed, possibly due to warnings to stay away from the event.
  • [19:51] Transport to Hospital and Medical Response
    Malcolm X lay wounded on stage for an extended period before medical help arrived. Eventually, some attendees improvised by “bogarting” a stretcher and carrying him through a nearby park to Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, a respected medical institution. Gene notes how this improvised rescue reflected the chaotic and informal nature of the response.
  • [21:31] Malcolm X’s Lack of Police Protection and Threats
    During the break, Gene elaborates on Malcolm X’s frustrations with the New York Police Department, whom he and his supporters believed were indifferent or hostile toward his safety. Malcolm had received direct death threats, including a chilling phone call at the New York Hilton Hotel. The NYPD’s reluctance to provide protection helps explain the paucity of officers at the scene during the assassination.
  • [23:15] The Killers and Immediate Aftermath
    Gene recalls that the killers fled the scene in a cowboy-like, unrestrained manner. The crowd managed to apprehend one assailant, who was severely beaten and later imprisoned. No weapons were reportedly recovered at the scene, suggesting the shooters planned a quick escape. This chaotic aftermath underscored the violence and confusion surrounding the event.
  • [25:22] Gene’s Professionalism and Live Reporting
    Despite the turmoil, Gene maintained professionalism, focusing on moving through the panicked crowd to a coin-operated telephone to report live to WMCA. His broadcast was patched through quickly, reflecting the station’s trust in his credibility. This live report is now considered a classic moment in broadcast journalism.
  • Native Hawaiian man with glasses and a cap in front of a green screen.

    [28:20] Witness Interviews and Preservation of Truth
    Gene immediately collected witness testimonies using his state-of-the-art Stancil Hoffman tape recorder while the smell of gun smoke still lingered. These interviews, which remain in his possession, form a crucial part of the historical record and educational potential to illuminate the true events surrounding Malcolm X’s assassination.

  • [29:04] Call for Support to Preserve Archives
    Gene appeals to the public and interested parties to assist in preserving and developing his archival materials into educational programs. He faces financial difficulties maintaining the archive, risking its sale or loss, as had previously happened with valuable tapes by John Lennon and Yoko Ono. He invites collaboration to ensure these precious historical resources are not lost.
  • [30:15] Gene’s Multifaceted Life and Future Plans
    Jason expresses interest in exploring Gene’s wider life and current work beyond this historic moment. Gene reflects on his rich and ongoing life as a poet, writer, and chronicler of American history. He sees himself as a quintessential American writer, having lived through and reported on significant moments, though his story remains untold in book form. He hopes to find publishers and collaborators to bring his stories to a wider audience.
  • [31:42] Conclusion and Invitation for Contact
    The interview concludes with thanks and an open invitation for those interested in Gene’s work to reach out through the Dream Makers Foundation, protecting his privacy. Gene affirms his vibrant present and ongoing contributions, leaving the door open for future conversations and projects.

This interview provides a rare, detailed eyewitness account of Malcolm X’s assassination, contextualized within the social and political tensions of 1960s America, preserving vital audio history and calling for recognition and preservation of these essential narratives.

00:14
Aloha, I’m Jason Schwartz and I’m here with a very special guest. I’ll let him introduce himself to you. My name is Gene Simpson. Many of you in Hawaii, on Maui especially, will know me as Mauka, which is the same person. But I assume that Mauka
00:35
name just generally. I’m very well known by it here on Maui and when I perform as an artist, which is another aspect of my character. I see. This seems like once my line, but it’s not. Gene was in fact a reporter in New York City 50 years ago
00:59
and not only captured the sound, but was the specific reporter on the spot when Malcolm X was assassinated at theElderly men in a discussion against a green screen, emphasizing Native Hawaiian culture and community heritage.

Audubon Ballroom in New York City. And Gene, why is it now that you’re coming out and sharing this information?

01:22
Well, I’ve been in a position to share this information for all of that time. As a matter of fact, one of the things I want to make a point of in this interview is that I still have and maintain a private archive of audio tapes, not video tapes. Video was not current during that time.
01:44
again fifty years ago but uh… i have uh… an extensive audio archive having to do with uh…
01:52
Malcolm X, a little bit of Dr. King, Floyd McKissick and other names you may not know, persons both high and low in and around the civil rights movement and the Vietnam War and so forth. So I have for many years now been trying to get somebody to pick up on me in that archive so I can go into studio and fashion it into programs for schools.

02:20
And I’ve not had too much success with that for reasons that I don’t understand. I also need and want to write a book, maybe several. I have a screenplay. I’m a poet. I’m poised to move on all of those things. But I think today we want to focus on the Malcolm X story. Is that it? Yeah, I think that would be a good idea.

02:44
This is going to be shown on television, but it’s also going to be on radio. So I hope as we’re talking, you were a radio reporter at the time, and you were pretty well, because there was no television really at that stage it is now. Radio was really the way news was being delivered.
03:05
Yeah, I worked for a station that was very well known, WMCA. It happened to have been the so-called number one station in New York City, which is saying something, because New York is a pretty big city, and they were very much deep off into rock and roll, especially, as I was telling Jason just yesterday, we introduced the Beatles to America. They’re in New York City, so I had the privilege of being around those guys and their managers

03:32
sometimes during that career so it was a pretty successful bustling operation WMCA and I was working with and for them on that Sunday which was a day off the 21st of February 1965 when I decided on my own
03:52
that this Malcolm X story was a big deal, that I wanted to be there to see how it was going to resolve, what was going to happen, what was going to take place, because truthfully in New York at that time there was almost nothing else to talk about in the news but this tension and evolving story of Malcolm X and what was going on around him. And so you went up on this fateful Sunday to the Audubon Ballroom?

04:22
Yeah, I didn’t know it would be fateful. Now there’s something that you folks might want to know to get a better picture of how and why I was there. I and several other news reporters, and I would have to say black news reporters because that’s the way they were looked at, who also looked at this story as electrifying, went up to the Audubon ballroom

Elderly man with grey beard and glasses against green screen, Maui cultural ambassador.

04:49

to check it out, what was going on. Now, we all had, in New York City, if you’re a news reporter, you’re cleared by the police department, not just New York City, any place across the country, and you’re given credentials. So we had these press credentials
05:06
that we went up there with like you would go to any other news event. And the idea of the press credentials was to, you know, identify you as the real thing, as bona fide, and to give you entrance and egress, as the case may be, you know, so you could do your job. Well, as we approached the security area for entering this place,

05:37
We were told this, you can’t come in here with that kind of ID on. Because at the time, Malcolm and the folks around him were taking a pretty strict look at what they called the white press. They weren’t trusting them because, as I myself have seen sometimes, you’d go to a news event and
06:06
something would happen but by the time you read about it in the newspaper it’s almost like a different story so here we come representing some of those same organizations who by the way knew that white men especially if they were sent up there would really not be that welcome so it actually presented a job opportunity for black news reporters

06:34
But we went up there, and we were told, take those credentials off, and then you can come in here as black men, not representing any news organization, but just as brothers, like we’d let anyone else in. You come in here, and you can witness what’s going on.
07:00
So it was on that basis that I got in and some of the others, who I can name in a while, as news reporters, went in with me. I see. And I don’t think we, do we want to tell a recounting of that event? Anything specific that you’d like to tell? I know there are stories out about it.
07:24
Yeah, as you know, I was on CNN Worldwide recently in their show Witnessed with an E.D. And it will be that retelling of events will be rotated. CNN has been telling me in about 100, maybe 200 different nations. So, you know, I’ll be pretty well known all over the world for having
07:51
been associated with that circumstance. At any rate, to tell you a little bit more about this, since that’s what’s flowing within me, we got sent in. One brother whom I love, his name was Stan Scott. His parents owned a newspaper somewhere in the South, and he was operating as a news reporter and later became press secretary under Richard Nixon.

08:20
But anyway, Richard, rather Stan Scott, and some of the others, you know, I don’t know where else they went in the room, but me being me and wanting to see everything as close up and as clearly as possible and hear as much as I could, I went to the front row.
08:42
like right in front of the lectern where, I will call him, Minister Malcolm X was supposed to address the crowd.
08:52
Because I wanted to see this. I wanted to hear it all because you can’t understand now, 50 years later, the amount of tension and interest that had been built up given the differences between Malcolm X and his mentor Elijah Muhammad and the various, I have to use the word, threats and warnings that had been issued by either side in that controversy.

09:22
And also, to bring you up to date with the Stasis then, Malcolm X’s home in Elmhurst, Queens had just been firebombed with he, his wife, and daughters inside in an early morning, you know, sort of dawn event.
09:46
So all of those things were building a fire of its own in terms not only of public interest, but the drama. How would this all be resolved? That was what, the evening before? Just a couple of days before? I don’t exactly remember now, but it was pretty close. And I don’t remember now either why or how, but I was…

10:16
awakened and went out there to the house, you know, after the bombing and covered the aftermath. It’s pretty cold. And one of the things that you may not find real important but interested me was I was amazed that Malcolm and the Muslims were able to get a house in that neighborhood because this is what you’d call a lily-white neighborhood.

10:45
you know, sort of all-white community. And given the politics of the time, I was just amazed that any black people lived there at all, you know, because that was like unheard of. But I think I must have arrived in a taxi. In New York, you take taxis a lot. And I had my tape recorder, which was, you know, like a part of your body in my trade.

11:11
big professional machine and went out and covered the story again for WMCA in that professional capacity. Now it’s got to be made clear that on this day that I’m up in the Audubon ballroom to hear Malcolm disclose the latest that he was going to have to say because as I already told you everybody was on edge of their seats about whether this was going next.

11:39
And he had promised that on this day he was going to, like, pull the covers off everything. And even more important, he was going to indicate where he thought the black community and America should go next. So it was in that context that I was sitting there. Yeah. As I’ve said on CNN, and I’ll say again, I think about the…

12:08
third seat in from the middle aisle, waiting for things to begin. Do you want to say something to this one? Well, you’re doing good. You’re telling the story. And then what happened? I mean, I’m sure our audience wants to know. Well, I’m sitting there like you would in a theater, you know, fidgeting a little bit. There was no popcorn or anything like that, but you’re kind of waiting for things to start. And they did start.

12:38
Malcolm always had, I don’t want to say a flunky, but somebody, you know, like an emcee who would come out and say some things about, some laudatory things about him and his path. And so someone did that.
13:04
I’d seen that guy around before, but I don’t remember his name right now. Anyway, he gave a little speech and then introduced the august minister, Malcolm X, who then walked out in a customary way. I say customary by then because these events at the Audubon were a series, an ongoing series of appearances by Malcolm when he was in town and not over in Africa like he had been recently.

13:34
And so for the audience, they had seen this kind of routine before.
13:42
He came out and greeted his audience in a traditional Muslim greeting, As-salamu alaykum. And I believe, because again, it’s been a long time, they responded accordingly, Wa alaykum as-salam. It’s like a ritual, as there are rituals in the Catholic Church or whatever. So this was said.
14:07
But where the train went off the track, so to speak, to use that term, is when somebody shouted out, get your, and they might have said, da-da, get your hands out of my pocket very loud.
14:28
Now you’re sitting there, this is behind you. It would be normal instinct for anybody to begin to turn around and so people did to find out what the heck is going on back there because this is an unexpected disturbance, not one that you anticipate when you go to sit down to hear somebody speak.
14:54
What was inferred by that and the message that was carried was there’s like a pickpocketing going on. Now, you’ve got to remember, we’re in Harlem, and that area is far more Harlem now than it used to be then. Like I said, they were like, I don’t want to say segregated, but this was an area close to Columbia Hospital.

15:21
Columbia Presbyterian Hospital. Forgive me, it’s been a while. And, you know, an upscale area. At any rate, we’re in an area where pickpockets might operate and something like that might happen. And then, you know, people would probably turn around and get involved. So anyway, the inference was carried that there was a pickpocketing or theft going on with get your hand out of my pocket.

15:51
Now, in that moment, Malcolm, being the kind of person he was, I would say sort of parental, held up his hand and was saying something like, now wait a minute, brothers, and in modern parlance it would be like, chill out, you know, like.
16:11
no need for anything like that. This was again not said but inferred and read so by me. This is my interpretation. But he was saying like, you know, cool it. Then things really got nasty when somebody, I remember, shouted out in a very loud, peremptory command,
16:40
And at that point, shots rang out. A police investigation later said, and I’ll put it that way, that the weapons used were a .45, a .38, and a sawed-off shotgun.
17:10
After the murder, I’m told, because he was on a proscenium or stage at a lectern about to speak, even behind there in the walls, bullet holes were discovered, probably from the sawed-off shotgun, but there was a pattern of bullet holes back there, and of course,
17:35
As later revealed, I didn’t know this at the time, but a pattern of bullet holes in Mr. X’s chest. He fell backwards. And pandemonium broke loose. See…
17:54
This was, you might almost say, a shabby hall. It was a dance hall, in fact. Something that was told to me that I find odious is the same night of this killing,
18:06
they went ahead with a ballroom dance in the same room. No kidding. I’ve just learned this recently. I don’t even know if it’s true. But ballroom dancing was taken very seriously by the black community. In fact, Malcolm himself, not to wander too far off from the immediate subject, but
18:24
You’ve seen pictures where he was very much into being a hep cat and dancing in a zoot suit and all that. So this was the venue where it was taking place. There would be speeches and formal meetings, but at night the place was wild for dancing. At any rate, one of the things that I now remember, that I now recall in recounting this, is that

18:54
And some people have even complained in my tape recorder. I still have the recording. They didn’t see why it either should take or did take so long for the cops to get there. Now, to balance that out, you’ve got to remember, they didn’t even want news reporter credentials coming near. And I’d be pretty sure the cops had been told or warned, like,

19:24
we don’t want you around here okay unless it’s something really drastic so that may have been why there was such a long delay but um mixed mr x had been shot seriously fatally as it turns out and lay there on the stage for quite a while before any police arrived more or less
19:51
medical help. In fact, I just learned from watching a documentary, I believe on CNN, that it was people there, and I remember it because they used this word, who bogarted a stretcher. They like got one from someplace and then carried
20:13
Malcolm X across to what I remember as at least a block and a half. There was like a little park, you know, mainly for feeding pigeons and stuff, which happens in New York. And they carted him by hand.
20:31
over to the Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, which is one of the more prestigious and thought of as one of the more professional hospitals in New York City. So, I’m sure I may be leaving some things out, but that’s a sketch. I see. We’re going to go for a quick break and we’ll be right back.
21:02
We’re back with Gene Simpson. Is that best to call you Gene? Malka, I’m so used to calling you Malka. A rose by any name is just as sweet as a saint spirit, so either one is fine. Well, let’s continue that story, because during the break we had a little conversation. Take it up. Yeah, I was just telling Peter that part of what was the fact at the time…

21:31
was Malcolm complaining that he was getting no help or attention at all from the New York Police Department. He was getting dire threats. In fact, there’s something you can research about him, you know, in his autobiography and so forth, where he had actually been telephoned, how somebody got through to him to his room,

21:58
in the New York Hilton Hotel and threatened him, which is another sort of amazing thing for me and us at the time that
22:09
A black guy was able to get into the New York Hilton in a sort of, I don’t know if it was a penthouse, but a very elegant situation. But anyway, somebody got through to his room, and when he picked up the phone, made dire threats. Stuff like, are you ready to die today, or whatever they were going to say to him. But he felt, and the people with him felt and were convinced,

22:35
that the NYPD, the New York Police Department, was averse to them, no help to them at all. And what was also duplicated is that, as I told you, they made no secret to the New York Police Department and others like them that they really didn’t care to have them around.
23:03
It’s not that much of a mystery to me that when the event happened, there were not that many cops right there on hand.
23:15
And you figured there’s at least a couple of people that did the shooting and more, right? Was there any way to track them or was it just too much pandemonium? How did that play out? As far as your question is concerned, when the shooting happened and immediately after, I remember being quoted
23:43
because afterwards Ike Pappas from CBS and some other very well-known news reporters showed up. And since we knew each other as colleagues from other stories, they wanted to interview me. And I remember one of the things I told them was that the killers were –
24:08
like cowboys, you know, just running, jumping over stuff and getting out of there. But the crowd, I didn’t see this part because this happened way in the back of the Audubon ballroom, got hold of the one guy and to say that they were beating him would be an understatement. He later was named and sent to prison along with some others. But at that time,

24:38
Whoever did the killing, I don’t think they dropped their weapons because no weapons, to my knowledge, were found there. But it may have been part of their plan. They took off, except for the one guy who was caught. And again, I don’t remember clearly. He may have been shot in the leg or something like that.

25:00
But I know he got walloped and stomped on and, you know, maybe worse. So, well, so there you are. That was an event. That’s only one of many things you as a news reporter during that time
25:22
When you reflect on that day, anything that specifically you know that this audience would like to know that hasn’t been known? No, because I’d like them to know that I performed excellently in that situation in terms of professionalism because I was describing before the shabby
25:53
makeshift meeting place where the seats were all collapsing wooden chairs and from time to time i can still remember the sound of all of those chairs collapsing as people went to the floor and started scrambling trying to hide anywhere they could protecting their children whatever but my immediate
26:21
Focus became getting from where we were to way in the back of the room. You know, you’re talking about a cavernous room. Estimates say there were 400 people there. I’m no good at estimating crowds, but there were a lot of people in panic.
26:45
I set my mind on getting to the back of the room to a coin drop telephone, you remember those, because my obsession at the time was to call up WMCA, even though this is my day off and I’m operating on my own time,
27:05
They knew me, and there must have been something in my tone of voice when I told them to get me on the air. Yes. That it wasn’t long. I’d say maybe 30 seconds before they patched me right in to live New York City air, which you know is…
27:23
It’s expensive and it’s not easy to do, but they trusted me. They trusted it was me. And my report over the air is now a classic. As a matter of fact, one police officer type person told me the other day that he heard that report that I made in a training class to become a protective officer.
27:52
You know, I’m kind of glad that I was able to do that, but also what you don’t know and what I’m trying to get you folks to hear are these interviews that I did. While the smell of gun smoke was still in the air, I also called after the radio station a buddy of mine and
28:20
pretty much ordered him to get down there with my Stancil Hoffman tape recorder, which was a state-of-the-art professional tape recorder, and I went around the room interviewing people who had also been witnesses. I have those in my possession, and they’re part of what I want to develop into programs for schools, colleges, and so forth.

28:46
That’s very commendable and it’s such a precious thing to have. I imagine it’s going to create a lot of truth and a lot of people listening to it will really have a much better idea what was really going on. I would hope so. Yeah.
29:04
But I’m also being very subtle about inviting. This is an invitation to any persons out there who would be motivated to help create that to get in touch because I’m in a situation now.
29:20
Just about broke from supporting, you know, with storage fees that never end, you know, keeping that archive. One of the things I’m afraid of is that at some point it may be sold at public auction. People don’t even know what it is. They may just buy it. Something like that has already happened to me here on Maui with tapes by John Lennon and Yoko Ono that vanished.

29:50
out of my archive, so you see what I’m saying. I can use some help on this. Well, we’re going to come back on another day and we’re going to talk about different things that have gone on and that you’ve experienced and shared. And also I’d like to explore some of what you do now, because like you say, it’s many years.

30:15
that you’ve been a poet and a writer and you have many facets. I’m sure there are going to be a lot of people out there that will want to be getting more information from you and I’d hope many of them, or some of you, whoever the right people are, will come forward and you can contact Jean directly through me.

30:38
Or I think that’s probably the best way. We’ll keep his privacy, right? You don’t particularly want to give it out. So get in touch through Dream Makers Foundation and we’ll get in touch with you.
30:52
So you must have really had a very fascinating life. Were you busy all the time? Well, don’t use the past tense if you notice I’m still alive. Yeah, you’re alive, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I’ve had one of the greatest pasts imaginable. In fact, I kind of think of myself at this point as…
31:13
the quintessential American writer in the sense that I’ve lived a life, although I can’t seem to get it told in a book or anything like that, but, you know, you guys celebrate Hemingway, Steinbeck, everybody who has lived a piece of America. Well, I’ve really done that. And reported it. I would think that there would be a publisher out there that would be interested in this. We’re going to find out. We’re going to find out.

31:42
Thank you for joining us today, and we will see you again. Aloha.
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