Genetically Modified Organisms/Genetically Engineered Foods – PRO

GMO/GEO- Part 1- Genetically Modified Organisms/Genetically Engineered Foods–primary focus- Taro & UH patent applications by one of their researchers- Jason Interview with pro-GMO advocates from University of Hawaii, Manoa- Steve Ferreira, PhD., UH Kula Taro researcher John Cho, PhD., and UH cultural liason Buttons Lovell from the Big Island– 4-2006

Summary & Timestamped Transcript Below…

[00:27 → 03:19]
Introduction and Context

• Jason Schwartz from the Maui Arts and Music Association introduces the discussion focused on GMO taro.
• The association’s mission involves promoting environmental solutions, self-sustainability, and cultural cooperation.
• Guests include Dr. Steve Ferreira and Dr. John Cho, both experts involved with agricultural research in Hawaii, particularly related to taro and genetically modified organisms (GMOs).
• The goal is to clarify what GMOs are, dispel misconceptions, and discuss the research and impact on taro cultivation.
• [03:19 → 06:54]
  Guest Introductions and Backgrounds
• Dr. Steve Ferreira: Plant pathology specialist, worked on genetically modified papaya developed by University of Hawaii, Cornell University, and USDA. Has direct experience with GMO papaya, which was released about eight years ago.
• Dr. John Cho: Based on Maui, professor of plant pathology, works mainly on vegetable crops, especially tomatoes, focusing on breeding for disease resistance. Since 1998, involved in taro research after a devastating fungal disease called Phytophthora leaf blight wiped out about 95% of taro crops in American Samoa and Samoa.
• A third expert, Michael Poona (referred to as “Buttons”), retired from forestry and resource management, brings a Hawaiian and Indian cultural perspective. He serves as a liaison to the Hawaiian community, helping to communicate the science and cultural context around GMO and taro.
• [06:54 → 10:07]
  Clarifying GMO vs. Genetic Engineering and the Status of Taro Research
• Definition and distinction between genetically modified organisms (GMOs)and genetic engineering (GE):
  • GMOs broadly include any organism that has undergone genetic modification, which can occur naturally or through various breeding techniques (over 100 ways).
  • Genetic engineering specifically involves precise gene insertion via methods such as gene gun or chemical splicing (about two methods).
• Taro genetic engineering experiments have been attempted on three varieties (Samoan, Chinese, Hawaiian), but only succeeded with Chinese taro.
• A moratorium on GMO taro genetic engineering research has been in place for almost a year, pending community discussion and sensitivity considerations, and this moratorium is being honored.
• Cross-breeding and natural genetic modification through pollination are traditional and ongoing practices; taro historically lacks a natural pollinator in Hawaii, so manual cross-pollination has been used for centuries.
• [10:07 → 14:34]
  Historical and Cultural Context of Taro Varieties
• Hawaiian ancestors brought about 60 taro varieties when they arrived circa 700–800 AD from the Marquesas Islands.
• By Captain Cook’s arrival in 1778, written accounts estimated 150 to 300 taro varieties existed in Hawaii.
• Today, only about 60 varieties remain, with approximately 80% lost or extinct due to changes in agriculture and cultural shifts, such as the introduction of rice and altered ceremonial uses.
• From 1931–1935, University of Hawaii scientists began a conservation effort, collecting around 70–74 varieties still extant. This collection has been curated for over 70 years.
• The decline in taro diversity is linked to disease, cultural changes, and economic challenges faced by farmers.
• [14:34 → 22:34]
  Public Concerns and Scientific Responses
• Public confusion and alarm often stem from misunderstanding the terms GMO vs. genetically engineered organisms (GEO or GE).
• The guests emphasize that the taros currently grown are not genetically engineered; all GE experiments remain confined to labs with no field release, ensuring no environmental contamination.
• Cross-pollination, a form of genetic modification, is natural and has been practiced by ancestors for thousands of years.
• The fear of corporate control over seeds (e.g., Monsanto) is acknowledged; however, the researchers affirm that their work is unpatented and community-focused, aiming to return improved taro varieties to farmers without corporate interference.
• Farmers continue to share taro planting material freely, especially after natural disasters like floods that wipe out crops on islands such as Kauai.
• [22:34 → 27:32]
  University and Research Efforts on Disease Resistance and Crop Improvement
• The University of Hawaii is actively working on improving taro disease resistance through traditional breeding methods, using genetic diversity from Southeast Asian taro varieties (Indonesia, Thailand, Micronesia, Palau).
• This breeding effort has resulted in hybrid taro varieties that:
  • Yield 30% more than commercial varieties
  • Exhibit improved disease resistance
  • Retain good taste and quality
• The research involves cooperation with local farmers, who recognize and appreciate the benefits of these improved hybrids.
• The main diseases impacting taro production are Phytophthora leaf blightand pocket and root rot, which reduce yields by 30-50%.
• Taro production in Hawaii has declined from approximately 20 million pounds to around 2.2–3.2 million pounds annually due to disease and other factors.
• [27:32 → 31:46]
  Misinformation and Cultural Sensitivities Around GMO Taro
• Misinformation has spread partly due to misunderstandings about what Dr. Cho is doing (cross-pollination vs. genetic engineering).
• Indigenous groups such as Maori have raised concerns, sometimes viewing the research as a “rape” of Hawaiian culture.
• Michael Poona explains that the cross-pollination technique used by Dr. Cho is identical to ancient Hawaiian methods, learned from kupuna (elders).
• Once kupuna understand that the research honors tradition and does not create “Frankenstein” plants, their concerns diminish. The greater worry is the decline in poi availability, a staple Hawaiian food.
• The panel emphasizes the importance of open dialogue and education to dispel fears and promote understanding.
• [31:46 → 36:52]
  Broader Context: Genetic Engineering Beyond Taro
• Genetic engineering is also used in other crops, notably papaya, which was nearly wiped out by the papaya ring spot virus in Hawaii in the early 1990s.
• The genetically engineered papaya, developed by public institutions (University of Hawaii, Cornell, USDA), allowed the industry to survive and thrive again.
• Alternatives to radiation treatment for exported papaya (to control fruit flies) exist, such as vapor heat treatment, which is widely used and preferred over irradiation.
• The panel underscores the complexity of agricultural technology and the need to evaluate each case carefully, distinguishing between genetic engineering as a tool and the misconceptions or fears surrounding it.
• [36:52 → 46:30]
  Dialogue, Public Perception, and Sustainability
• The discussion stresses the importance of community engagement, transparency, and respectful conversation around GMOs and genetic engineering.
• The experts reject blanket opposition to genetic engineering and advocate for nuanced understanding based on scientific evidence and cultural respect.
• They note that all stakeholders want sustainable agriculture, reduced pesticide use, and better disease control.
• Polarization and misinformation hinder progress, but dialogue can foster cooperation and shared solutions.
• Personal stories and community involvement (talking directly with kupuna and farmers) help build trust and clarify intentions.
• Monsanto’s historical reputation (DDT, Agent Orange) has contributed to distrust, but the university research on GMO crops like papaya is independent and publicly funded, with no corporate profit motive.
• [46:30 → 52:53]
  Challenges and Hope for Hawaiian Agriculture
• Hawaiian taro faces serious threats from diseases and environmental challenges such as floods leading to crop loss.
• Research efforts are developing hybrids that can resist these threats and help farmers maintain livelihoods.
• Despite challenges, Hawaiian farmers continue to share resources and support each other, resisting notions of privatized seed control.
• The conversation calls for more attention and resources to be directed toward sustainable agricultural solutions in Hawaii, including water management and biodiversity restoration.
• The panelists emphasize their mission to “disarm” fears around GMO and genetic engineering by providing facts and cultural context, encouraging ongoing public education.
• [52:53 → 55:03]
  Closing Remarks and Contact Information
• The experts offer their contact information and encourage viewers to reach out with questions.
• Final messages reinforce:
  • The safety of current genetically engineered food products.
  • The preference for cross-breeding over genetic engineering when possible.
  • The pragmatic approach to using all available tools for agricultural sustainability.
  • The importance of community involvement and consensus in scientific progress.
• [55:03 → 56:19]
  Closing Poetic Message
• The video ends with an uplifting call to action:
  • “The time has come to make a change”
  • Encouragement to unlock hope and stand together for a better future.
  • Emphasis on healing, cooperation, and collective responsibility.

1. 1. 1. Key Insights

• GMO vs. Genetic Engineering: GMO is a broad term encompassing many forms of genetic modification, including natural cross-breeding; genetic engineering is a precise, lab-based gene insertion method. This distinction is crucial for public understanding.
• Taro Research: No genetically engineered taro has been released into the environment; research remains in labs under moratorium. Cross-pollination, a natural method, is primarily used to improve taro varieties.
• Cultural Respect: Scientific efforts align with traditional Hawaiian agricultural practices and are accepted by kupuna when properly explained. The main community concern is food availability, not the science itself.
• Disease Threats: Diseases such as Phytophthora leaf blight and papaya ring spot virus have severely impacted Hawaiian crops, necessitating innovative breeding solutions.
• Sustainability Focus: All parties aim for sustainable agriculture, reduced pesticide use, and preservation of biodiversity. Dialogue and cooperation are essential to overcome polarization and misinformation.
• Public Misinformation: Misuse of terms and lack of transparent communication fuel fear and opposition; engagement with scientific experts helps clarify facts.

1. 1. 1. Summary Table: Taro Varieties and Historical Context

Period	Number of Taro Varieties (Approx.)	Notes
Hawaiian arrival (~700 AD)	~60	Brought from Marquesas Islands
Captain Cook’s arrival (1778)	150–300	Recorded by early explorers
1930s University collection	70–74	Conservation efforts to preserve varieties
Present day	~60	Significant loss due to disease and cultural shifts

Summary Table: Main Taro Diseases and Impact

Disease Name	Impact on Crop	Notes
Phytophthora Leaf Blight	Up to 30% reduction in yield	Fungal disease devastating taro crops
Pocket and Root Rot	Up to 50% reduction in yield	Soil-borne disease affecting taro roots
Alomai Buboni Complex (Potential)	Total crop failure if introduced	No current resistance; carried by leafhopper insect

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Question	Answer
Is genetically engineered taro being grown in Hawaiian fields?	No, all genetic engineering experiments have been halted and confined to laboratory settings.
What is the difference between GMO and genetic engineering?	GMO includes all genetic modifications including natural ones; genetic engineering is a specific lab technique involving gene insertion.
Are genetically engineered crops safe to eat?	According to current scientific evidence, yes; no documented safety or environmental problems have been found.
Does the research on taro involve corporate patents or control?	No, the research is publicly funded, unpatented, and aimed at benefiting local communities and farmers.
How is taro traditionally pollinated in Hawaii?	Since no natural pollinator exists in Hawaii, manual cross-pollination by humans has been practiced for centuries.

This comprehensive summary captures the scientific, cultural, and social dimensions of the discussion on GMO and genetically engineered taro in Hawaii, emphasizing clarity, respect, and sustainability.

Transcript

00:27

aloha welcome to another mama presents as you know i’m jason schwartz and the maui arts and music association which promotes visual art and healing art and music and culture we’re trying to educate people about environmental solutions toward creating self-sustainability and an example to the world of what we can do through cooperation right you’ve heard my mission a lot of times well today we’re going to be talking with some very wonderful gentlemen that

03:19

i think you’ll say well what’s the subject we’re sitting here at maui community college and i’m sitting with dr steve ferreira and dr john cho and should i give you doctor buttons Lovell now these gentlemen will explain who they are a little bit more detail but the subject that we’re going to be talking about is gmo tarot now gmo we’ll all have conversation and definition um gmo we know is genetically modified organisms we watch a lot of television and

03:54

genetically modified organisms probably by itself has a lot of you know visions of what it is so these gentlemen will help make it clear and understandable about what it is and what they’ve been working on and then we’ll have some questions about it but i just want you to get up close and personal i’m going to start with whoever wants to be starting who wants to start to talk to him okay forever my name is steve ferreira and i don’t work with taro but i’ve worked with the genetically modified papaya that was

04:27

produced by the university of hawaii and cornell university and the usda it was developed released about eight years ago so i’ve got some experience in the papaya area as it’s related potentially to tarot so okay so we’ll get that and you’re dr john show you’re here on maui yes i’m located here in maui i’m part of manila campus but our college has experiment stations on each island they have one here in kula and there’s a lab in office that i work out of up there and we work on

05:00

i’ve been working well i’ve been mainly working on vegetable crops and tomatoes i’ve been doing some breeding for improved disease resistance but i got involved in terrell maybe about 1998 i did some a lot of consulting work in in the south pacific in samoa tonga fiji and this disease fungal disease was uh introduced into the country in american some more firsts called phytophthora leaf blight then there was the first time introduced in american samoan then into samoa then called western samoa and it wiped out

05:37

that crop introduced in 1993 in 1994 95 of that crop was decimated and gone and so i decided then that i would work on trying to to put my talents of breeding for disease resistance into um developing resistant material for the the terror brewers in in in the south pacific as well as in hawaii so are you an independent you’re working for the university i’m with the university i’m professor of plant pathology i see and what about you what do you do steve i’m always known as a specialist in

06:13

plant pathology it means i have a research and an extension also out of the college also out of the college and i’m housed at manoa i see yeah and uh i’m sorry um what about your buddies what’s your background well um i retired from my last occupation to be hired by the college of forestry and resource management and i basically address problems or anything that needs an explanation or solution like this problem with tarot so because i have a hawaiian cultural background and an indian cultural

06:54

background um i was asked to come down and assist you know in putting the the word out to the hawaiian people about what genetically modified organism is and also what dr cho is doing with tara basically the take on it is is genetically modified organism is everything that is around us it’s the thing that fuels evolution everything around us is genetically modified so i think you know the i don’t pretend to be an expert in any way but i’ve heard a lot of people that are complaining about gmo one of the

07:38

things they talk about it is that vision car were laughing with me rat corn we are seeing these images of somehow someone manipulating and playing with genes and taking the genes of a rat and injecting it into corn in some way and manipulating to try to lower use of pesticides and creating these hybrid frankenstein plants and products we hear about things with papaya and all kinds of visions of modifications that are creating problems so that’s what i’m concerned is what uh what does my pmo mean to you it means my

08:16

take is an organism that’s been genetically modified doesn’t say how it just is when i ask the phd exactly how many ways are there to genetically modify an organism and they said there was over a hundred but let’s just take a hundred just to make it simple i also asked this doctor how many ways is there to genetically engineer an organism and basically the response was two there are two ways to genetically engineer roughly about 98 ways to genetically modify i don’t think the engineers and uh steve

08:55

or dr cho could explain it better but either by gene gunn or chemical splicing you take a gene from one and you put it into another two ways that’s the genetic engineering it doesn’t correct genetic uh engineering on these processes in term yeah uh it’s been attempted in tarot uh in three different kinds of tarot one from samoa a chinese tarot and a hawaiian tarot but it was only successfully concluded in uh in the chinese town it did not work in hawaiian or samoan carolinas and so is it being

09:32

pursued as a for experimentation about a year not quite a year ago that uh andy hashibot was the dean of our college agreed to a moratorium on this kind of research until a further discussion within the hawaiian community could occur so we could understand what various sensitivities might be before we would make a decision about pursuing further work in this area and that moratorium has been honored there’s been no further genetic engineering well that’s good to hear i’m sure a lot of

10:07

people like hearing that but to modify there’s you know cross-breeding cross-pollination any any type of uh problem that that shows up uh nature or man wise can can genetically modify an organism like um there’s an article that i just read on zucchini squash being grown by organic farmers that no pesticide was used to keep the insects off the zucchini and the zucchini is modifying itself by putting forth a poisonous flower and a toxin to ward off insects now that’s a genetic modification done within nature

10:49

and the plants trying to protect itself what dr cho is doing is the same thing that our ancestors have done for thousands of years and that’s the cross pollination down in the south pacific is a pollinator insect that’s found in indonesia and borneo that we don’t have here in hawaii and that insect could actually bore into the the female capsule of the flower and cross-pollinate it doesn’t happen here in hawaii there is no insect that can pollinate a taro so it was man that cross-pollinated to get the different

11:23

varieties i say to take the six to twelve to make almost 300 varieties but out of the 300 varieties we’ve already lost 80 percent of them lost lost they’re gone they’re extinct you have to back up i’m sorry when the hawaiians first came they they postulated that they brought you know they brought these different food plants to planted because it was they didn’t know what to expect when they arrived wherever they arrived so they they arrived here maybe about 700 a.d based on archaeological records

11:55

700 800 a.d coming from the marquises first um they brought along some of these plants in the hall and carol they they postulated they probably brought maybe only 60 different varieties of course there’s no records of it but this is what they thought now when when the white man caucasians came into hawaii and won captain cook first in 1778 there were some written accounts of how many different varieties were in hawaii and they postulated they were between 150 and 300 different varieties so they felt and this is what button says

12:35

there was this huge amount of different varieties that was written about and today there’s only about 60 a lot of them have been lost when when things changed terrell was not as important rice came in different types of starches took over as easier and cheaper to produce and so that there was a lack of care of the the taro varieties a lot of them were used for many different things like ceremonial uses for forgiving for the gods and that probably changed when the missionaries came all these celebrations uh for

13:17

some reserve for the league special types of red tarots and a lot of them have been lost and in 1931-35 university of hawaii scientists started collecting to try to save some of these important what they thought were important varieties before they were lost to the to the hawaiian community and the people here and they only could they only could find i think 70 to 74 varieties that were remaining out of the 150 to 300 varieties and that that that collection has been curated by the university of hawaii for

13:54

over 70 years today wow so i’m going to just ask simplify so what i’m hearing so far is the words genetically modified organism may not be technically what the public is understanding as the demon the demon might be genetically engineered organism first of all it might be called uh geo instead of gmo and we’d be closer to at least understanding what is the alarm that’s one and again you guys will help me understand better but that’s my first understanding what i’m hearing

14:34

and you have been honoring the moratorium and another concern the public has i almost wish you were the monsanto group from molokai we’d have a little more interesting conversation because people ask me how can we trust a company that has brought us ddt and agent orange and later tell us all these test results that they found 20 years before and then say oops we really knew and why there are no tests on things but you’re doing tests am i correct that you’re not doing it in an open atmosphere to mix with other

15:10

tarot so that things are isolated in a lab condition that that’s correct that’s the biggest concern i’m hearing that is the one and the initial work that was done with tarot was to develop the methodology the methods for doing genetic engineering in cairo and there was completed in this at this point on hold and has been only confined to the laboratory there’s been no release to greenhouses or to the field so there’s been no release of any kind into the environment so when i hear people talking for

15:43

example papaya yeah i don’t know but i hear this huge percentage of papaya is all genetically modified what does that mean what does that mean to you well i think most people are referring to the fact it’s been genetically engineered i agree with buttons i think we ought to distinguish between genetic modification or gmo and so that’s why i say and just terms interchangeably even in the same sentence it’s used but it really is a different animal very clearly i think uh people are opposed to the

16:13

technology generally mean what you and i refer to as genetic engineering where a specific gene has been isolated and specifically inserted into into a host plant uh using the methods that buttons referred to they’re basically two approaches for doing this and and they’re they’re people are that have expressed some concerns about this process but the but the bottom line is that all of the reservations that have been expressed are are speculations about potential problems there are absolutely no

16:47

problems there is no doc there are no there’s no documentation that there are any problems helped food safety wise environmental wise that have resulted from the experience with genetically modified organisms the concerns are all speculations there’s and there is a record of uh testing to see that there are no problems right and what am i right well i mean when i hear dr pang for sure dr peng i have not met i saw him at a panel talking sure and when the head of the department of health is standing up strongly against

17:25

something along with others definitely brings alarm sure the tarot the tarot issue has nothing it is a genetically modified organism because of cross pollination that’s not what mendel did when they started originally absolutely heredity that’s right so i mean we all know we’ve all learned in school x and y and all the rest of them yeah that’s what the basics you see the the label the moniker that was put down was genetically modified organism i see just like with that wrong identification you just created a

17:59

broader alarms what you’re saying basically broader alarm because they interchange the word with ge now the tarot that dr cho is working on is genetically modified cross policy and they are out in the field because this is the same thing that our ancestors did for two thousand three thousand four thousand years tarot is forty eight thousand years old and was brought out from the indonesian peninsula into the solomon islands about forty thousand twenty eight thousand people twenty eight thousand bc so let’s

18:34

say now changes are happening and you come with with solutions and i’d say solutions and you have now are those seeds going to be available to everyone are they controlled in some way a lot of concern about changing uh you know who’s the source again i i say i wish you a monsanto okay excuse me that biggest concern is that someone is going to control the food source and manipulate and control the ability of things to reproduce except through their own breed anyway well no no i i understand that

19:13

completely and i know i understand you know dr joe could probably jump on the plane i just bring it up so you can have something there’s some differences of opinion on that i i believe that because i’ve worked a lot all the material we’ve used to bring in disease resistance have come from other countries because that’s where the diversity of genetic material is so we’ve used uh terrell that through crossbreeding from indonesia from thailand from micronesia and palau and to work and to develop and identify

19:48

things that do well on the farm we have to work with the farming community we have to work with the public and they’ve helped us identify what’s useful i’ve always felt that because of this no patenting should be done on this i’d give it back to the community at this point we’re it’s it’s a little restricted because we only have so much planting material uh we’re trying to bulk it up and and develop the ones that we identified that does well out yields and we see it

20:17

out yielding the commercial varieties by 30 and it’s disease resistant and it takes tastes good do these things you know the old thing are they labeled packaged so that someone who’s getting them as a farmer for example knows what this is that it’s all the material we’re giving that the farmers are working with they know what it is we have numbers on them right now we haven’t named them we will in in the future and so there’s no again i’m i’m back to my that alarm

20:52

thing of the scenes well floating within the hawaiian culture just within the hawaiian culture by itself right now kauai having has a problem because of three repeated floods they’ve lost all of their taro what huli was in the loyale has now floated away what was almost ready to harvest has to be harvested otherwise it’ll rot in the field it was underwater for about 18 hours now that they’re looking to replant there’s no huli to replant everything is basically gone if the floodwaters laid the plant down

21:30

and they replant it chances are it won’t grow so in the past when one farmer had a problem he would go to his next door neighbor you know i’m having a hard time do you have some pulleys that i can plant in my lawyer and there would be sharing and they’re still going on now they’re sharing between farmers if they need help i’m pretty sure there’s farmers in kauai calling maui we need help we need huli the idea or the concept of a patent stopping this is just beyond me there’s no way to stop

22:02

it local people will share just to make sure that their neighbor is taken care of and in return when that neighbor has a hard time his other neighbors will come and help him so there’s been no genetically engineered organisms that are being given to the public that is suddenly like a disease like a bird flu right that’s correct but that’s the difference i want to establish right not in tarot right talking tarots that have ended up in anyone’s farm true okay never left the laboratory this is

22:34

gmo yeah that’s why that’s right now it brings up that other question so what things are i mean when you’re using what was it well the universities has or the college has been has several projects involved with many different crops you know papaya is one of the crops that’s been genetically engineered uh it’s been commercialized since 1998 we’re working on additional papaya lines that have been modified uh engineered to provide broader better resistance really better resistance to these funguses and things

23:03

i’ve seen viruses from other areas of the world our papaya variety is highly resistant to the strains of from hawaii the virus strains from hawaii but if but completely susceptible to strains from other countries so we’re working on approaches to broaden that resistance to make it you know to indemnify our growers from potential threats should new strains of the virus end up in hawaii somehow the world is getting to be a smaller and smaller place yeah we’re talking about tarot just this

23:33

morning about tara that was brought in fresh an article in the west hawaii today newspaper a few weeks ago talked about all the new insects that are coming in in produce including organic produce especially that are bringing in insects that have not yet been identified in the kona station and there was a big article in the west hawaii today i think it was about three four weeks ago but even then these diseases that are keep coming in there’s a disease down in the south pacific called alomai buboni

24:06

complex if it comes here all tara will die it’s carried by the leaf hopper insect which we have here if alumai comes here our tara will die there is no resistance to the halami buboni complex at all so what dr cho did because of the the pocket rod the soft rod the phytophthora leaf blight is he went back to the home of the tariff and that’s in the indonesian peninsula and to bring back um a stronger gene line from the same family of tarot when you look at the alii of hawaii they basically bred

24:48

within themselves to maintain the royal hawaiian line and because there was not too many branches on the tree and their gene line became thin when western diseases came they were the first to die same thing with terror terror was taken bred back upon itself and their gene lines got real thin when disease came to hit they’re having a hard time the best thing that dr cho decided to do was to take the parent gene line to breed it back onto the youngster or the caking and to to rebuild this gene

25:25

you guys know what chain lines are well what’s what i’m guessing i’m gonna get let me make a guess a gene line means that if you keep uh the frail ones and something that hasn’t been exposed to different resistances it becomes weaker because it hasn’t had to fight because it hasn’t had a resistance and so it becomes weaker and weaker it’s one that’s standing and never had wind then a brush of wind that kills it whereas if it had a little wind all the time it would get stronger and be able

25:57

to withstand so is that what i’m saying so here you take this the parent and the child getting together so that there can get to be more strength to resist is that what that means i guess well that’s well that’s that’s a big technique well that was the basic but what he looked for was yeah the resistance to phytophthora resistance to different diseases and those are the ones that he took to breed with our hawaiian variety how are you going to jump back to what you’re doing i mean you’ve had

26:27

conversations i’m sure uh yeah i’ve had some conversations i’ve given talks with a lot of these uh like honor carol festival has one every year again talks there every every year except this this year in the kawaii tarot festival and um the growers hawaiian growers i work with appreciate it because they can see the difference their the yield increase they’re also they can see the value in this less disease problems and and less other problems they get a bigger bigger crop to take out of the

26:58

ground they they are very defending of the new hybrids they say that’s where our future is and they don’t feel any disrespect for their culture that that comes to be an issue that people brought up but from what we’re talking about cross-pollination i mean i don’t really see cross-pollination as genetic engineering i don’t see any dishonoring going on in fact where did all this come from this i mean it’s become very alarming to people what have you perceived we’re not going to name names maybe but

27:32

where did all this come from why has there been this kind of information out there well this first came i think i gave a talk in maybe two years ago at the haunted or three years ago at the haunted tarot festival and one of the individuals there took it wrongly that it was you know they felt it was cross pollination but they when they said it was uh dr cho is working on cross-pollination it came out that he was working on gm ontario he said gmo when he meant cross-pollination is that subtle you know it’s like when you learn

28:09

a language the word no is only two letters but boy you’re not i that came think and then that started the talks all over with maori’s coming over here and giving talks with uh and their talk started out with the rape of hallowah and that’s how i got involved because i became very the maoris came here yesterday maori paiute indians they they all came in here and they did a whirlwind tour between big island maui molokai and wobble because i attended the one in the big island and the title of this was the

28:45

rape of hallowa and i became very concerned because that’s my culture that’s my culture and then i went to see dr cho i said exactly what are you doing with terror and he showed me and i identified this as michael poona telling me the same thing that his grandfather had taught him how to breathe tarot it was the same technique that dr cho was using my kupuna could be basically my father he’s about 80 years old and his grandfather showed him out across pollinate tarot and i told dr joel well that’s the same

29:21

thing that our components say they did and he said yes it is and i said so what’s the problem and dr cho responded i don’t know and that was his honest to god i came up to kula to see him because i was concerned and when i speak to the kupuna on the big island and when i speak to the kupuna on maui and i just spoke to kupuna in waimanalo on oahu i explained to them just like i’m explaining it to you and they understand they truly understand as soon as they find out that it’s the

29:57

way their ancestors had done things they don’t have a problem with it it’s their bigger problem is going to the store and not finding poi that’s the biggest concern of the kupuna is that there isn’t poi and it’s what they were raised with it’s part of their culture and when they find out that dr cho is doing it this way then there is no problem now that we’ve solved the gmo tarot problem we should we should probably uh ask your opinions about things and maybe what you know i mean i think

30:33

it sounds like we’ve disarmed the bomb i hope that many of you will understand that i’d like conversation like us all to have discussion about this but as far as genetic engineering of tarot i think all of us are recognizing and honoring hawaiian culture and wanting to maintain that and wanting to make things better and not creating a frankenstein at all but taking the best of what already is here in natural the genetically engineered oriental tarot i can understand where someone would say

31:08

what is this and where is it but then as far as its future you know if we all get wiped out i mean it’s like where do we understand where we’re brothers we’re all on this planet together if all the terror was wiped out because the the leaf i didn’t follow my all of my virus yeah and this other hopping leaf hopper insect is here already we have that dog here so a leaf hopper you know what that means hops leafs so okay i’m the technical advisor but now that that one i understand and i

31:46

appreciate it i as far as for me genetic engineering is another hot topic unfortunately ge is not with the tarot problem at all well and so i thought to take i’m sitting here with three people that are well acquainted with the subjects and everything but then ge okay it depends on on what we’re talking about is it all bad no or is it is there could be some good in it now for a person like me that has diabetes okay and for a lot of native hawaiians that have diabetes it would be surprising to find out that

32:26

all the insulin that’s supplied in this country is genetically engineered that was my next thing i was going to mention genetic engineering there shouldn’t be a blanket you know abolishment without looking absolutely what has really alarmed me and i don’t know how you feel is when i hear about things being put into the fields that have not been tested where there’s no nothing that’s been tracked i find it hard to understand how that’s been okay well so that’s why i mean when i was in

32:59

molokai and i saw and hear of the word monsanto everyone keeps reminding me again and again and again that’s ddt and agent orange and that’s like hearing that and then hearing this is a different animal to me i can understand if someone’s manipulating something and it’s blown in the wind and has a free reign to whatever we call it in fact infect cross-pollinate whatever that i have a problem with and i’d like to think that there’d be more tests done in a closed environment

33:32

if at all but you know things that we found it’s the the parent and the child being cross-bred that gets the strength if we genetically engineer and modify everything is different i guess but i mean i’m wondering really i wonder if that would be stronger than something that we naturally create and that’s what you’re trying to do in in the tarot world right and papaya world needed something different sure what was that i had a very comparable situation it was threatened by a virus disease

34:03

called papaya ring spot virus that was came very close to wiping out the industry as we know it in hawaii wow um 90 of our papayas are produced in the big island where buttons is from and and the virus did not occur in a commercial area until 1992. three years later no one in pune in the kapoho area in puna could grow up could establish a papaya planting and expect to get a commercial harvest off of it three years it became impossible to grow papayas commercially and and people were some people offered all kinds of

34:42

alternatives um some many of these were looked at there were no viable alternatives to virus control except for genetic engineering and in fact the work had been started years before anticipating a time when a solution to this problem would be needed on the big island because the virus had occurred on oahu and we felt it was only a matter of time before it would show up on the big island in the commercial areas that if we had started the work in 1992 and the virus showed up we’d have no problems having buyers today there’d

35:13

be no solution in place and it did wipe out all of our crop it did i have friends that grow papaya or used to at that time and they were they were wiped out what about radiation of while we’re talking about that for produce to be exported it has to be irradiated still for papaya one alternative is to eradiate papaya it has to do with controlling fruit fly yeah infestations so we don’t spread through twice to california say where they serve me because i i had a product you know came to me thermo

35:48

acoustic cooler dryer using the sun to excite a gas in a closed chamber as it was forced through a passive engine it created cooling and the waste heat if harnessed could create large dryers to dry papaya to avoid radiation i don’t i don’t know if you’ve ever explored that but uh i’m not aware of that well i went to this department of business and economic development with this guy with his patents and all these was doing through the naval research i couldn’t get anyone’s

36:23

attention so maybe after this show we’ll get some attention but i mean there was a solution for people who didn’t want radiation where we could grow the crops and there’s an alternate alternative also which is called vapor heat treatment we use hot vapor steam basically to heat the fruit up the surface of the fruit or just under the skin surface where the eggs the fruit fly eggs are made to kill those eggs so that they can be exported so that’s still available that’s that’s most of the

36:52

fruit that’s produced and why it is exported from hawaii is subject to the vapor heat treatment and i was involved in that and prior to that it was a big huge vats i’d have to heat up the propane and to get these big metal racks it would put the skip of papayas and loaded in with with a forklift and that was a pain then we went to that vapor steam i’m liking the fact that i’m hearing that you chose vapor stream steam over radiation i think the public really doesn’t get a complete

37:27

understanding of what’s going on it’s just like here when we’re talking you sit here with buttons and john and steve doctor doctor just kidding and uh you know we’re the fact that people there’s people involved here there is not an asset of them and surely shouldn’t be in us unto them because it’s in us all of us you know i mean i i hope that the kind of dialogue that we share here can happen at some point with people that are anti but i felt important that we talk without

38:09

an interruption if you will and you know a lot of people may say i’m not asking those good questions i’d like them to ask those good questions i think that’s fine but i would like to think that there’s so much information that we all agree on you know i always wonder that when i was running for politics i don’t know if you know but here on maui i ran for council and mayor one time here as the green party candidate and i think people thought green meant somehow a sword to go chopping and i’m

38:41

not really looking to see what we disagree on i’m looking to see what we agree on and then can from that common base move forward because i think that a lot could happen if we all sit in dialogue and really hear each other there’s been so much talk about gmo that before three words come out you guys are you know i have to avoid the tomatoes and i don’t really and tomatoes are good i hope you have a good one coming up to address no question there were some problems with with the corporation you know back

39:23

a number of years in the late 50s early 60s okay it doesn’t mean that those kinds of problems continue to persist i can understand that people are reluctant uh or make some assumptions about how bad monsanto might be but monsanto is not the only player in this game the papayas that we developed have no relationship to monsanto we used a piece of their technology to in order to engineer the papayas we we needed to use some of the technology that they had developed they gave that technology to the fire

39:55

industry it was give it free of color at no cost for use in in the in the development of papaya it took some years for this to occur because we had we need to find the right people within monsanto to speak to but once we got to the right people they gave the technology away and there’s no there’s no large corporation associated with the development of papayas this is the first public we’re the first public institution cornell and the university of hawaii usda to develop the genetically modified uh

40:28

variety i’m sorry a genetically engineered variety of some sort you know we’re not we that’s good we don’t like to be i don’t like to have us label is being part we’re not an arm or or a puppet of monsanto i like hearing that how much you’re writing yeah and there’s been not a penny made by any of us who developed the genetic asian amphiplane right let’s go back to what you were saying because i when i think about monsanto yeah this new regime and just like you

41:03

know you could use words like in insurance and everyone here’s the name now there’s a new consequence totally new but still has that name right okay now that might have been or the hawaiians it was the people that aren’t even alive that did all this don’t destroy and fight with this person because they’re not hawaiian let’s say exactly let’s d desensitize this issue but um what i think of the monsanto issue i think of corn in a field i think of this rat gene thing that i told you about i

41:40

mean i’d like to i’ve seen a compilation about gmo i’m really going to revisit this and try to understand it better and again get some anti-gmo people on and then hopefully maybe we can create dialogue and come back and do this again in a cooperative way where we now can maybe move forward it would be a wonderful thing if without government and without any other involvement that somehow the public could better understand all that’s going on and you know desensitize this and maybe

42:17

you know create solutions from what appeared to be enemies in the water problem here on this aisle i’ll give you a funny thing i was coming out of a restaurant someone thought i was a somebody else and they thought it was my building and they thought then they found i do these tv shows oh yeah i’ve seen you this guy is an engineer and he wants to develop subdivisions and studies flows of water and he lives next to eos stream and he said to me i’m not putting his name out there he said

42:45

you know i measure flow rates so when we have a storm and i’m seeing all this water going out to sea we have this problem with sailing in the eo aquifer to be easily handled just reroute this on to a area where it can seep back in how come if we know all these solutions isn’t he mentioning it to someone and having to be acted upon how come when we have all this greater revenue coming into the county we’re not taking huge chunks of money that’s here because of these values and routing them

43:18

into solutions for other problems why aren’t we and i think it’s because there’s just too much heat around certain subjects and uh the public hears about it you know it’s like building well they don’t want development so they hear about it after it’s already three stages into it and they’re screaming it’s like wait why come we didn’t talk about that way back here when we could have planned and done things differently i hope that’s the same thing that we’re

43:44

going to avoid in areas that we’re trying to all of us develop livable usable solutions like you heard in our organization mission self-sustainability and something that works for everyone in cooperation i hope is going to be an example to the planet of what we can do if we just take off that extra edge of fight and uh create dialogue you know we’ll see if there’s a rat in the corn or a rat in the in the the group because i think that we all really are playing from that same place we’re not

44:20

playing we’re all really coming from a heart space i feel nothing but good will here and i hope that people watching can understand and approach these three gentlemen with an understanding that they’re really they’re really here to make things better that’s in fact that’s what you do huh you’re the disalarmer that’s well no what i what i do is i go around and i talk to the kupuna and that’s basically what i do i talk to the kupuna and ask them what their concerns are

44:53

and their concern right now is for tarot so i go out and i talk to them about tara and i bring dr cho and i bring stephen along and another of the doctors on you and have the people relate directly to the doctors do you have a question here are the men that can give you the answer do you ever videotape and share that with anyone no just i mean i should but i don’t have your your qualities with the camera um i got a little tiny sony but uh that’s what i like to use tell you but it’s um

45:27

it’s it’s really interesting when the people actually talk to the doctors and get the answers that they’re looking for directly instead of going to somebody and getting misinformation it’s not what we’re trying to do here that’s what we’re trying to do so i i commend you for being here with me and one final comment is from my perspective yeah you talked about sustainability and i think all of us here are very concerned about sustainability i think i think one of the largest

45:54

crimes so to speak in this discussion is the polarization around sustainability that’s occurring and to me that’s what i’m about when i talk about genetic engineering i cannot think of anything more sustainable or more natural than using a gene we want the same things we want to we want to reduce pesticide usage we want to solve problems that don’t have straightforward solutions we want more sustainable solutions to problems we really want the same things yet we appear to be on opposite sides of the issue right now

46:30

and i see your sides that’s right you know i don’t feel that i agree but my biggest concern is that there’s some agenda i don’t know what that agenda is yeah no plan agenda here right man i’m not from you i mean i’m not sure as the attacks are coming i’m not sure there’s concern that we’re going to be manipulated you know we watched a lot of science fiction and i’m sure a lot of it is science fact and there are lots of things going on in this world but surely from the group of

46:59

people we’re looking at here come and meet people come and see that’s the purpose of this when you see buttons or you see dr cho john there we go steve steve say hi see if you can get a simple answer to what you need and you know maybe there won’t be that difficulty in developing open conversation so that we can move forward and together get even greater results because someone’s input that’s why i brought up that water thing someone’s input might be good to mix in but you were afraid to

47:35

talk or you didn’t think someone was available or approachable they see me on tv interviewing different politicians and i wonder how can i sit with this one when i know he’s not that’s funny when they’re when they’re against biodiversity the research on tarot being done by the university of hawaii is actually making it more diverse by coming up with with new breeds that will will live now you know with the diseases that we have present if we can’t get rid of the disease then let’s bring up a tarot that

48:11

that can resist a disease that brings more diversity instead of bringing in less diversity when when they they hit the newspapers and i say they and you know accuse the university dr chill and susan miyasaka of breeding inferior tarot with our food tarot where is this coming from inferior tower no where is the accusation coming from um from someone that’s doing testing in science no no i can send you the article so i oh that’s i won’t bring up media can be alarming or disarming hopefully we’re

48:50

disarming use of so their their use of inferior tarot coming from the south pacific is basically the line of tarot originally it’s like our kupuna looking at their kupuna and saying that they were inferior this is the same line of kalo from halo out to the hawaiian varieties he’s not using inferior taro he’s he’s creating biodiversity and he’s not breeding poisonous taro into our food tarot and all these accusations were brought out by supposedly learned people people that have degrees

49:33

and i i don’t understand it you know what biodiversity they know what biodiversity is to have biologically i mean from nothing how are we defined for them i just want to make sure the public is understanding we want lots of different things the more difference sure and it refers to the comment i think buttons made a while a while back about the thinning of the line okay diversity gives you the the building blocks to strengthen any line that you’re interested in any crop or crop line that

50:05

you’re interested in from biodiversity you have strength i’m glad to hear that i i don’t know if you ever heard of an area in south america called gaviotis in colombia in 1976 the united nations awarded them one of the awards for the greatest example of self-sustainability they took a fully bio a full barren wasteland that turned into a biodiverse rainforest planting sterile maritime pine trees harvesting the sap so that they could then create revenue to continue more of what they’re doing let the pine needles fall

50:42

change the humus cap and it’s now a fully biodiverse rainforest 39 000 acres right now now we wanted to talk about doing that here i can’t get anyone’s attention you know these people are willing to work with us and these are fantastic tools that have been around a generation already here we’re hopefully hearing those same words biodiversity trying to find solutions for the future i hope that we can take off that edge and try to work together if nothing else comes from this then more discussion

51:18

then to me that was a good thing but i think so we’ve accomplished some things some of your viewers might be wondering why this is being done because of the diseases but tarot production has been reduced to 2.2 million pounds from about 20 million pounds three three point three three point two million oh right okay yeah so that’s envelope one of the the green looking at our time so one of the green organizations came up with 2.2 for last year but i know you came up with 3.2 okay but they were showing how it’s

51:52

declining at a rapid rate this is the same thing that’s been going on in the south pacific and the reason why is because disease like phythoptera will reduce the production of plant by 30 percent uh pocket and root rot reduces by 50 percent of production so that’s the production keeps going down and our farmers are having a hard time making ends meet to feed their families and that’s why dr cho and and um dr ferrer got into this not to create any kind of a a problem or a hassle but to actually see if they could help the

52:24

people you know to to make it easier for the farmers to be able to send their kids to school and and make a living right now more and more carol farmers are leaving the low e because they put all their work into a one acre loyal and they only harvest half because the other half is rotten i don’t want to cut this discussion but i’m looking at our time and realizing i’m sorry uh no no no this is terrific i hope that this brings more dialogue and i hope that you’ll come back to church

52:53

and bring some good talent because i know some people obviously that would love to see in here good tale and good thoughts and thank you very much all three of you for coming to join me here today thank you i hope we’re bringing some light and we’ll bring some more thank you thank you let me introduce them again let’s put some web addresses up here what’s a couple of good ways to find information or contact any gentleman you want to tell them sure we’re going to put these up you’re watching right

53:20

now you’ve probably seen them all through the show okay anything very important that you want to say before we leave well i i think the the message i’d like to leave people regarding genetic engineering is the food products that have been produced and are available out there are safe there are no known problems that we know about okay and you’ve been looking and we’ve been looking yes well my my take on genetic engineering if you don’t have to use it and if you can get the genes from from other plants

53:58

and use crossbreeding that it’s not required but there probably are some there are probably some diseases and some crops there’s no resistance on natural resistance and you have to look at a way of trying to circumvent those losses that you need i see that flash is not that’s good or not absolutely i agree with john i got you oh i’m glad to hear and my take is look at all and find out what is best in each don’t there’s always good and bad in everything just pick out what’s good

54:29

and leave out what’s bad if cross-breeding is good fine if genetic engineering is needed that’s fine too long as you do with the being careful of what we’re doing as well as the people agree right absolutely the community as a whole of greece thank you very much gentlemen i don’t know where this should be thank you thank you lisa thank you and thank you for watching i hope to hear from comments and get some of these gentlemen back again love to be back okay aloha the time has come

55:03

to make a change but time has come to unlock a hope that lives in each and every one of us and we must do our part we hold the visions god dreams of our hands can heal the ones we love let’s gather round and let us make a stand for you and me unlock the hope and there’s a better life unlock the hope there’ll be no turning back but nothing changes unless we unlock the hole the time has come to make a change the time has come to unlock the hope that lives in each and every one of us and we must do our part

56:19

we hold the visions god dreams up our hands can heal the ones we love let’s gather round and let us make a stand for you and me unlock the hope and there’s a better life unlock the hope there’ll be no turning back but nothing changes unless we unlock the hole but nothing changes unless we unlock the hole but nothing changes unless we unlock the home unless we unlock the hope unless we unlock the whole unless we unlock the hope you