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JASON SCHWARTZ & AIRIELLE PEARSON INTERVIEW FORMER MAYOR HANNIBAL TAVARES IN 1997 AFTER HE WAS RETIRED; shortly before his passing
[00:22 → 03:05] Introduction and Maui Style Song
The transcript begins with an uplifting song celebrating the spirit of “Maui Style,” emphasizing pride, family, and community love. The repeated exhortation “Maui styling, don’t let me down” serves as a call to embrace and carry the unique culture, values, and positivity of Maui wherever one goes. The song highlights sunshine, renewal, and familial bonds as core elements of the Maui identity, setting a warm, inviting tone for the conversation ahead.
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[03:05 → 07:07] Introduction of Hannibal Tavares and Early Political Context
Jason Schwartz introduces former Mayor Hannibal Tavares alongside Airielle Pearson, framing the interview as a long-anticipated conversation with a beloved Maui figure. Hannibal reflects on his retirement party in 1990, marked by attendance from top state officials, underscoring his respected status. He recounts his 11 years as Mayor (noting that term limits were already in place before his tenure), describing his time in office as a life highlight due to his deep affection for Maui and its people.
Hannibal emphasizes his leadership style centered on community input and participatory governance. Early in his administration, he championed long-term and master planning for Maui, aiming to avoid chaotic, uncoordinated growth. He notes Maui County’s pioneering role in adopting master planning in 1958, which brought more orderly development, although not perfect, but better than unchecked growth.
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[07:07 → 12:23] Land Ownership, Development, and Public Access
Hannibal discusses Maui’s unique land ownership, dominated by a few large owners, which influenced development patterns. He details his involvement with Alexander & Baldwin (A&B), a major landowner, specifically during the development of Wailea. His focus was on ensuring beach access for the public alongside resort development, resulting in public walkways, parking, and amenities along the shore that remain accessible and cherished.
He also highlights the strategy of selling large lots to hotels to allow extensive landscaping, contributing to the lush, tropical environment characteristic of resorts in the area. Hannibal recalls the transformation of dry, barren land into vibrant, green spaces, crediting visionary planning and landscaping efforts. He praises the planting of monkey pot trees as a form of “nature’s acupuncture,” enhancing the beauty of open spaces where trees have room to grow.
Hannibal reiterates the uniqueness of Maui’s people and the importance of continuous community engagement, encouraging debates and sharing of ideas to reach balanced outcomes. His approach was to surround himself with competent, capable staff, prioritizing ability over politics, which helped his administration function effectively despite being the lone Republican among Democrats.
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[12:23 → 17:04] Governance, Bipartisanship, and Public Safety
Hannibal reflects on the political dynamics during his tenure, acknowledging the fluidity and fading distinctions between Republicans and Democrats at the local level. He valued competence and issue-based governance over party identity, building collaborative relationships with council members regardless of political affiliation.
He focused heavily on public safety, including police and fire services, emergency preparedness, and infrastructure like clean water and sewage treatment, which were urgent priorities when he assumed office. He describes the challenges inherited, such as substandard sewer systems in Lahaina, and the pressure from the EPA to resolve them quickly.
Hannibal recounts his proactive approach to addressing these issues, including immediate engagement with federal authorities and prioritizing funding to modernize and improve vital services. He also highlights the foresight in water management, commissioning hydrologists and geologists to study drought solutions, resulting in the construction of large reservoirs for water storage to mitigate drought effects.
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[17:04 → 20:12] Infrastructure Development and Collaboration with A&B
A vivid anecdote illustrates Hannibal’s negotiation skills and determination to enhance Maui’s infrastructure. When proposing a major fire station in Kahului, he confronted Harry Weinberg, a powerful A&B stakeholder resistant to further land donations. Hannibal’s firm but respectful argument emphasized mutual benefit: fire protection was crucial for expensive private properties owned by A&B.
Despite initial resistance, Hannibal secured the land for the station, demonstrating his ability to balance corporate interests with public good. He admits regularly advocating with A&B for parks, housing, and public amenities, underscoring the importance of corporate responsibility in island development.
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[20:12 → 26:21] Political Career Origins and Party Dynamics
Hannibal shares how his political career was unplanned, emerging from circumstances when a predecessor resigned. Despite having no prior political ambitions, he was encouraged to run and won decisively among 18 candidates, securing over 50% in the primary, avoiding a runoff.
He discusses his background of community involvement—Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, PTA, and church—which built his local reputation. He notes the challenges of being a Republican in a predominantly Democratic environment but achieved respect through competence and bipartisanship.
He expresses a pragmatic view of party politics, recognizing the limitations of party labels and emphasizing leadership ability, issue focus, and community service as the core of effective governance.
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[26:21 → 30:46] Green Party Perspective and Community Priorities
The conversation shifts to the Green Party and its challenges in gaining traction compared to established parties. Hannibal acknowledges the difficulty for new parties to gain visibility but supports issue-based politics over partisan divisions.
He highlights key community concerns, including environmental protection, water management, clean air, and recreational facilities. He supports innovative water distribution ideas like dual water systems to optimize resources and reduce treatment costs.
He recognizes the diverse economic realities in Hawaii, noting many work multiple jobs but also that recreation and parks are increasingly valued by residents. The development of regional parks like Kihei Park is seen as a positive step to meet recreational needs.
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[30:46 → 38:11] Family, Community, and Energy Initiatives
Hannibal discusses family involvement in local governance, mentioning Charmaine’s active participation in community affairs and the uncertainty about her future political ambitions.
He recounts personal use of solar water heating and the vision of integrating renewable energy infrastructure into resort developments, emphasizing Maui’s high utility rates as an incentive for self-sufficiency.
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[38:11 → 43:10] Community Engagement and Education Aspirations
Hannibal shares fond memories of participating in local radio Christmas skits and public messaging during his mayoral tenure, reflecting his approachable and personable leadership style.
He underscores his commitment to listening to new ideas and innovation, welcoming community input and fresh perspectives.
The conversation turns to education, specifically the near-success of establishing a four-year university on Maui through collaboration with Glenn Olds and the University of Alaska. Hannibal laments the failure of the plan due to external opposition but remains hopeful for future development of higher education options to retain local youth and provide accessible degree programs.
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[43:10 → 49:27] Growth, Environmental Concerns, and Agriculture
Hannibal addresses community concerns about Maui’s rapid growth, traffic congestion, and the challenge of balancing progress with preservation.
He stresses the importance of local agriculture, highlighting the potential for papaya and mango production in specific areas like Kihei, where climate conditions are favorable. Hannibal expresses frustration that more local papayas are not grown and consumed on Maui, noting the economic and nutritional benefits of expanding local production.
He also touches on technological innovations like thermoacoustics as alternatives to irradiation for produce treatment, emphasizing the need for scientific advancement to protect Hawaii’s agricultural future.
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[49:27 → 55:29] Papaya Industry and Technological Innovation
Hannibal shares historical insights about A&B’s papaya farming experiments and the challenges of developing a viable papaya export industry.
He envisions rekindling local agriculture and leveraging new technologies to improve crop preservation and pest control, emphasizing Hawaii’s potential for high-quality produce.
He recounts personal anecdotes about buying local papayas and supporting local farmers, portraying a vision of sustainable, community-focused food production.
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[55:29 → 59:06] Closing Reflections, Spirituality, and Community Connection
The interview concludes with touching stories about the power of prayer and community support during Hannibal’s health challenges, including open-heart surgery and a brief clinical death experience.
He shares humorous and heartfelt anecdotes about spiritual encounters and the impact of collective goodwill on healing.
Jason and Ariel express deep appreciation for Hannibal’s presence, leadership, and ongoing contributions. Hannibal reflects on his continued involvement as a mentor and advisor, emphasizing open-door policies and accessibility to all citizens, especially those without other representation.
The program closes by revisiting the “Maui Style” song, reinforcing themes of love, family, resilience, and community spirit that have defined the entire conversation.
Overall Summary:
This transcript is a rich, multifaceted interview with Hannibal Tavares, former Mayor of Maui County, framed by a celebratory Maui-themed song that underscores the island’s cultural identity. Hannibal reflects on his political career, leadership philosophy, and deep commitment to community engagement, highlighting his pioneering role in master planning, infrastructure development, environmental stewardship, and public access to natural resources.
He candidly discusses the political landscape, bipartisanship, and the challenges of balancing growth with preservation. His insights extend to renewable energy, local agriculture, education, and technological innovation, demonstrating a forward-looking vision rooted in sustainability and community well-being.
Personal stories reveal a leader who is approachable, down-to-earth, and deeply connected to his community, spirituality, and the unique character of Maui. Hannibal’s legacy is one of thoughtful planning, inclusive governance, and persistent advocacy for the people and natural beauty of Maui County, inspiring ongoing dialogue about Maui’s future.
03:05
03:29
and our friend Hannibal, Hannibal Tavares. Many of you have asked me, when are you going to get an interview with former Mayor Hannibal Tavares? Yay! We got it! We’re buddying up on the microphone, so you’ll see us going back and forth here. Welcome to our show. Thank you very much. This is very good. I was looking forward to this. Oh, good.
03:55
We have, for a long time, wanted to have you on. Many people have wondered. They know you had some health challenges and are back in action. I imagine you’re not running any marathon this week. No.
04:11
But we’re so happy to be here with you today. Thank you very much. Oh, thank you very much. And we were looking at his beautiful blanket earlier when I came in. And it’s really special. It’s got all these wonderful wishes from many different people on it. What’s it from? Well, it was during my retirement party. We had this quilt spread on the table with some indelible pencils. People came along and wrote little messages all over it.
04:39
Isn’t that wonderful? You know, every once in a while I read them. There’s Chris Hart. I mean, this is like a who’s who of Maui County. Yeah, a big bunch of them. It was 1990, December, and we filled up the hall at Wailuku Community Center, and everybody came out surprised, and we were getting toward the end of the event, and all kinds of
05:06
in walks the Governor, the Lieutenant Governor, the President of the Senate, the Speaker of the House. They all come marching in together. Oh, how wonderful. To attend my retirement party. Well, as I recall, I was here at the tail end of your regime, but you had 12 years as Mayor. Yeah, 11 altogether. Eleven years as Mayor. And you helped pass the rule so that no one can run multiple terms? No, that came in the Charter Amendments earlier, but they weren’t for me.
05:37
two-term limit, which was four years each. When I came along, it was already in place in the charter, but because there was an unfinished term of three years of the prior marriage, he resigned three years ago. Those three years did not count against the eight-year total, so I put in eleven altogether. Wow. Well, I’m sure that you reigned as king wonderfully. Well, it was a good experience, a highlight of my life.
06:07
06:37
on long-term planning, master planning, zoning, et cetera, because I had a feeling that if we don’t do that, we’re going to kind of grow hodgepodge and be chop suey, and you’ll have all kinds of mixes that don’t make sense. So I’ve been reading about it in some other periodicals and found out that a few places had gone to master planning. So I started discussing that with the council, and everybody liked the idea. It really became law.
07:07
I remember I bought a supervisor in 1958, I think it was, where Maui County became the first county in Hawaii and one of the first counties in the nation to have a master plant. It brought about more orderly growth. Not perfect, but better than not. I agree.
07:34
We can always be more perfect. It’s always, I think, a matter of intention. And I think it’s Maui and the islands in general have a unique situation in that they were owned, most of the land is owned by just a very- One particular or two owners. Yeah, a couple owners. It made a big difference. You take like the first big experiment was over in Lahaina with the AMFAC.
08:03
And they did the Kaanapali development, which turned out pretty good, except I felt that there was not enough public places for the people, ordinary folks. So when A&B started Wailea, I was with A&B at the time. I was a corporate vice president in charge of governmental affairs. Who owned that land at the time? And my feeling was that we better make more space available for the people so that they can get down to the beach. And as a result, if you go to Wailea, you see all the beach rights away.
08:33
with parking and restaurants and all. We did that. Thank you very much. I use those walkways and units all the time. It’s owned by the county, but maintained by A&B. I really thank you. People can go anytime they want. Tis true. There have been very few bad experiences. Once in a while somebody gets out of line, but you can take care of those people. Basically, we open up the beaches to everybody. That became a very important part of the plan. The other thing we tried to do is to
09:03
sell the lots to the hotels in fee simple, large enough so that they could do heavy landscaping. So if you look at the hotels down there, you see lush gardens of tropical growth and flowers and trees. That was the result of giving about 25 acres of land to go over the hotel. I see. And that also was a very important point in our planning. It made a big difference. Those were the days, I guess, when things were
09:33
It was, I want to say, a wasteland. Key hay in that area was very dry. Yeah, there was nothing there. There was just cavities and brush. In fact, when I first went down to take a look at it, A&B had hired me to help them with a plan. Boy, what are they going to do with all that stuff? I thought it was almost a mission impossible. But you know, these guys with the ideas and dreams came along, and A&B hired some top flight planners, and they went through about four or five different plans.
10:03
and finally came up with the one that you see there as a master plan. And it turned out very well. The golf course became a very important part of it. It’s all nice and green and landscaped and meticulously kept, so it gives it a beautiful carpet right out front. Right. It’s a beautiful area. Everything kind of blended together.
10:26
And that wonderful walkway that goes all the way down. I walk that almost every night. I love it. It’s wonderful. Yeah, it’s terrific exercise, and it’s beautiful. We put that in there voluntarily because we felt that we didn’t… There was complaints when we started to develop that people were saying, you’re going to take all the beaches away from the people. The people are going to lose their beaches. I said, I don’t think so. That’s what we’re going to do.
10:54
I thank you. I’m glad for that. Owned by the county, so owned by the people. And that’s how it turned out, and I’m kind of proud of that. I’m so thankful to you, and you should be proud of it. We worked hard on that. There was a lot of disagreements and debate on it, but pretty soon they began to see that’s the way you got to go. Well, I think the large plots of land around them, as you say, makes a huge amount of difference. There’s plenty of land there.
11:23
And of course it was beautiful when it was natural, too. I always loved McKenna, even many years ago. Well, I didn’t think much of the sticky kiyabis. The kiyabis. No, I didn’t. When you brought in those huge monkey pot trees. Nature’s acupuncture. And they began to really take shape. Because those monkey pot trees are beautiful. And they’re planted where there’s room for them to spread out. So if you look at the monkey pot trees at Dwyerlea, they’ve got room to grow in.
11:52
makes all the difference in the world. It’s very beautiful. You know, I’ve traveled all over the world, and there is no place like Maui. And the people, as you said before, there’s just no people like the people here. They’re so very special. When you reach out to people and you say, what’s your idea? What would you like to see happen? You’d be surprised how many ideas you get. Absolutely. They come in and they voice themselves, have some very interesting debates.
12:23
And the end result usually is good, and I encourage that. Well, there’s so many brilliant people here. Oh, there are. Brilliant in their own rights and respects. My staff, one of the things I made up in mind right off the beginning, I was going to surround myself with people who were competent. I didn’t pay too much attention to the politics. I wanted to know what is the competence of this person. If I’m going to give him an assignment, is he going to be able to handle it?
12:52
The end result was, yes, I brought in some very good people to be on my cabinet. You did. Turn them loose, you know. Things began to fall into place. There was your brilliance. We started getting along very good with the council. At the beginning, they weren’t too sure about me because I was a lone Republican on the block and all the rest were Democrats. Republican, Democrat, I still don’t know. I’ve always been a Republican, going back to my parents and my uncle. My uncle was a senator.
13:22
What’s the difference between a Democrat and a Republican? Not a heck of a lot anymore. You know, you use the old cliché that a Republican is inclined to be a little bit more conservative. He’s a little bit tighter with his money. Well, maybe so. But with me, it all depended on the issue. And in my administration, there are a couple of things that made the engine go. One was safety. That’s police, fire protection, emergency vehicles.
13:52
having a first-class fire department. We worked on that. That story you told me about- Clean water, sewage treatment, all of those were high priority. Then everything else came. That was a major growth time for Maui. Oh, I tell you, the sewer thing was there. When I came in, we had some real problems with the sewers in Lahaina. A contractor had done a bum job out there. The EPA was breathing down my neck.
14:21
What I did the first couple of weeks- Isn’t it amazing? You become mayor and they suddenly breathe down your neck when it’s- They were waiting for me. They were really waiting for me when I came in and said, we want to see you in San Francisco right away. You’ve got some major problems. So I got my chief engineer in and the two of us went up and they laid out the problems on the table concerning primarily sewage treatment and water. I was flabbergasted. We’re going to have to spend a lot of money on it.
14:50
But that became priority. It had to be done. Well, we still have challenges here, don’t we? Oh, a lot of challenges. I know that we talk about water upcountry here now. Our plan, just before I left office, we had hired some hydrologists and geologists, and my charge to them was, tell me how we can help solve the drought problem upcountry. Right. So about three or four of them went to work.
15:20
And they came out and said, they thought the answer was huge storage capacity, man-made lakes. And so we opted for two. One was at the 4,000 elevation, that’s Waikamoi, and that’s 100 million gallons capacity. And then the second one was supposed to be down at about 3,000 feet, which would have been 300,000 capacity.
15:46
They built the first one, but they haven’t built the second one. I understand they’re talking about the second one now. I wanted that built right away, because if you get those two huge reservoirs going, I think you can hold off a drought for about three months, and our droughts usually don’t last much longer than that.
16:05
Thank God. Well, what do we do in the meantime, I guess? We just have to also maybe bottle up some of our water. How about that? We’re doing a lot of bottling of water. I use bottled water here at home, because bottled water in the pipe is not that clean. That’s right. That bottled water is important. Yeah, and so I use that all the time. I don’t know, Molokai, in the village of Kuala Pu, if you drive up alongside there, you see this huge man-made lake.
16:35
That’s one and a half billion gallons capacity. They’ve never filled it, but it’s there. So when I talk to our geologists, I’m jealous of that in Molokai. I want something like that, too. Can we just get a long straw? Well, there’s ways of doing it. They came out with a plan. It’s all written somewhere. It’s in somebody’s drawer. Someone’s drawer, huh? But there were a lot of challenges. There still are.
17:04
I was concerned about law and order. I was a former police captain. Crime has always been very important to me. Well, no crime is very important to you. The police department was right on top of it. And I think we’ve got a darn good police department. I like Tiger Moore. He does a good job. So whenever they needed more equipment, I’d find the money somehow.
17:28
I like the story that you tell me about the fire station down in Kahului. Uh-oh. You’ve heard of the name Harry Weinberg. Harry Weinberg was the controlling owner of Alexander and Baldwin. He owned about twenty-five percent of the stock. And I wanted to build a major station in Kahului because that’s where all the big buildings were and so forth. So I talked to the president of
17:57
A&B Bobby Piper, the classmate of mine, and he says, I want you guys to donate me some land so I can build a good fire station. Oh, yeah, I think that’s a good idea. He called me back and he says, Weinberg is against it. I said, how come? He said, we’ve given too much to the county already. So the only thing we can do is you’ve got to come talk to me yourself. Okay, so I go down there one day.
18:26
He’s a very gruff guy, and I can be too, so I put on my acting shoes. And I told him, Mr. Weinberg, you have a lot of expensive property coming up in Kahui that needs fire protection. I want you to provide it. The county will do its part. You give us the land mobilization. He looked at me and said, Mr. Mayor, what you probably don’t realize is
18:55
Every dollar you get from me, 25 cents is mine. I said, yes, but you get your money’s worth. And then so. Whose buildings are we talking about? Not the county’s. We’re talking about your buildings. And the forest is going to protect them more than anybody else. We had quite an argument. So I walked up in the house. When I got back to Maui, my phone was ringing. Bobby Fife was on. I said, what did you do to Weinberg? So I didn’t do much.
19:25
Oh, he’s all worried because you were angry. I said, well, you give him my message, and you can be as diplomatic as you want to be. My message is very simple. You say that Hannibal says we’re going to go to hell. Well, I can’t tell him that. I go, you do it any way you want. Half an hour later, I have the land. We have a nice station down there, a very nice station.
19:49
And I’m sure the people of Maui appreciate it. You know, it’s true, you work for A&B, and sometimes I hear people talk on occasion that you kind of lean to them, but I think also what you said is true. You’ve gotten from A&B a tremendous amount for the county of Maui. Oh, yeah, we’ve got parks, we’ve got housing areas, we’ve got all kinds of things.
20:12
I was not ashamed to ask. See, you orchestrated a lot. I appreciate it. I was knocking on that door all the time. And I would say things like, well, you know, Bobby, you have a corporate responsibility. Well, you know, if you own all the land on an island and you know you got it because there was a missionary family way back when, it does seem that they would be very, not only willing, but… We had some darn good presidents at A&B. Outstanding one was Larry Pritchard.
20:40
And then along comes my classmate Bobby Pfeiffer and they really did a lot of good work with A&B and they didn’t leave the county holding the bag either. So that was good. I think we should take a first break if we’re okay with you guys. We’ll be back soon with Hannibal Tavares and Ariel and me on Mama Presents. Breathe a little bit, stretch a little. Mama has a great future.
21:07
No question about it. A lot of things still to be done, and they will be done. Well, I hope to carry the flag, you know. I think so. You’ll find that people are aware of their potential, I think. And our people as citizens are very alert. They let you know how they feel, and I like that. Because in my office, I had one policy. That door stays open to everybody. Right. Especially the small guy.
21:36
I’m his man. Come and talk to me anytime.” And that word got down the line. I think that’s why you were so well-respected, what you did. A lot of people always have. I just had a feeling that you take the businessman who’s got the Chamber of Commerce, unions have their union leaders, but a lot of people out there have nobody. I want to be that guy. Did you think about being mayor long ago? No. As a matter of fact, I didn’t.
22:06
It’s funny how your life goes, you know. Sometimes being in the right place at the right time, I ended up, I was A and B, I had no idea that I would be a vice president there. And they appointed me and gave me that promotion, and I liked my job very much. And then when Cavaglia resigned, everybody was surprised. So I started getting calls and visitations to run for that office.
22:35
Really hadn’t given it much thought. And as I began to talk about it and talk about it, finally I came to the conclusion, well, I’ve got nothing to lose. Let’s give it a whirl and see what happens. But the funny thing was when I put my name in there, we ended up with 18 candidates. 18? Whoa. 18 candidates. So I kind of made light of it. I said, well, obviously there were 17 trombones and one tuba, because the tuba made better sound.
23:05
Wow. So did they all go through primaries and get down to two for the finals? Is that what happened? It could have been that way, except without charter. If in the primary you get 50% of the vote, you don’t have a runoff. You’re elected outright. So I ended up with 51% the first round. Out of 18 people? Yeah, out of 18 people. So I didn’t have to go to a two. That’s amazing. That is amazing. Well, I was more surprised than anybody else. It would be very hard for a so-called company man to
23:36
But I’d give my whole life to the public, you know. I was with the Boy Scouts and even Girl Scouts. What did you do with the Girl Scouts? I was on their board. I helped with their camp up here in Piajolo. And I was PTA, I was the president of every PTA that my kids went to school at. So all of a sudden you get involved, involved with the church. Pretty soon they begin to fall together.
24:06
And people know you. Well, I’m glad that we had all those years here with you. I don’t want to go into some of our former mayors and all the different things going on, but I know you had a hard job. It was tough. I put in long hours. I used to work about 16, 18 hours a day, really, and quite often come home with my little satchel for homework, because I tried to be current every day.
24:35
I’d be up until 2 or 3 o’clock in the morning, finishing my paper so that it wouldn’t stack up. So you were there when Linda Lingle was on council. Why did she and Goro fight so much? I don’t know. They had a real clash of personality. While they were both on council? They were both on the council. They seemed to disagree with each other a lot. She disagreed with me, too. You think Goro’s going to come around this time and try to be mayor again? I don’t know. He must be getting some pressure from Lanai.
25:04
Because they like him on Lanai. He’s popular. So whether or not they’re going to talk him running, I don’t know. But we’re interested to see if he does, because he’s an old Warhol. When he first got elected, that was his first year in 1956, I think it was, and he was only twenty-five years old, I think. And he and I served in the Board of Supervisors together. He was very good. We got along real well together.
25:33
Well, as the years went on, I mean, he was there in his term for, what, 15 terms or something? Yeah, he served a long time. I was surprised that he ran for mayor. I didn’t think he would do that. But I just kept finding him and Linda bickering, and I always wondered. Yeah, and it was kind of small stuff that should not have been.
25:54
We have another situation that’s going to be, I don’t know, about 18 people, but now that Linda can’t run, it’s like an open field now. There’s going to be a lot of candidates. I predict there’ll be probably over 10. It’s going to be wide open. You want to pick anyone? No. You know, between Republicans and Democrats and Greens and Independents,
26:21
It’s very hard for me to really hear what’s really different. I guess we have to look at the personalities and what their ability to lead is, I think. I would say especially on a local county level, your party identity kind of gets lost in the shuffle.
26:39
You’re the only one, I think, that beat the Republican rap, mostly around here. If you have a Democrat, you have so many votes on the way into the gate, you have to do something wrong to lose. It’s different. I know that on the council level, it’s more issue-oriented, and you find yourself taking positions on issues and not on political party stuff.
27:06
At the legislature, at the state level, maybe you do more of that. But not at the local level. In fact, a lot of local governments, they run nonpartisan. All over the mainland, they run nonpartisan. So when I got elected to the Board of Civil War, I was the only Republican elected. But I got along fine with the Democrats. Many voters come out 6-3, you know, 7-2. So the Republicans gave you the hard time.
27:35
It worked out very well. I had some good Democrat friends who backed me up all the time. I would back them up, they’d back me up. Any feeling about the Green Party? Well, I think you ran on the Green Party, and I think you made a good showing. You let people know where you are. Now, I think I told you before that I know it’s awfully hard for a new party to get off the ground.
28:00
It’s easier to be part of the Republican or the Democrat Party that’s already established. I figured I’ve had offers from both Democrats and Republicans to run, and if that’s the case, I just sort of, I don’t know. To me, I just want to help make a difference, you know? And you never know until you try. You can’t do it, you can’t do it. Well, that’s what they told me, they said I could never be elected mayor. I said, okay, we’ll see what happens. And I got elected, I was more surprised than anybody else.
28:29
But, you know, you just never know. So you try. If it doesn’t work, then you analyze, regroup, and see what you want to do the next time. Well, you see, and I’m a little funny in that my interest is not finding out where we have differences, but find out what we have that are the same so that we might move forward. That’s important. I think when I wave my green flag, I’ve been doing it to try to get people to see that there’s a lot of issues that we can agree on
28:58
What’s interested in you as a candidate? What do you have to say? What are you for? What are your priorities? That will attract the vote more than anything else, whether it’s green, purple, or red. Getting visibility. Yeah, red is a challenge. Getting press visibility as a green was a challenge. That was a challenge.
29:22
I know that we’ve had conversations off screen here about all the things that are happening here and all the changes that are happening. Do you have any area of Maui that you say that there’s something we should focus on now? Anything that’s important? I think we still need a lot of work on water and environmental control so that we don’t mess up what we have here. We’ve got to keep the air clean and unpolluted.
29:51
We’ve got to do a better job with our water. We need a good distribution system. One of the plans for our country was a dual system, where you would treat drinking water, but not treat irrigation water. The carrots don’t have treated water. They can grow without it. So you could do the dual system. It would be expensive to begin with. But once you have a dual system in, you’ll end up saving a lot of money, because you’d be treating only the drinking water, you see.
30:21
So I think all these challenges are there and the field of recreation is wide open because the people are finding more time for recreation and they want the parks, they want the playgrounds. Which people? All over. Oh, you mean in general? In general. Here in Hawaii I keep seeing more and more people working two and three jobs trying to figure out how to stay afloat. Yeah, I feel sorry for them who do that.
30:46
But on the other hand, there are a lot of them that do have time for recreation. Well, it’s nice. You know, we keep making more people. Until we stop doing that, we need- When you get down to Wailuku and you see so many things going, soccer and baseball and so many athletic events going, and people just love it. Charmaine, we talked about this regional Kihei Park. How’s that going? Any thoughts on that? I think it’s going to go. It’ll take some time, but I think it’ll come out good. She has some good plans, yeah.
31:12
Yeah. So, you know, it’s interesting. When you hear the name Tavares, everybody I speak to says the same thing. Ask Hannibal if Charmaine’s running. And your answer is? She won’t say. Ask Charmaine. She doesn’t know herself. You know, I have a question. I know she’s enjoying everything, every part of it.
31:39
She attends all the meetings, very conscientious. We see less of her now than we did before, but she’s just enjoying what she’s doing. Well, you know, nothing but good things to say about Chauvin. I remember when I first came to see you.
31:58
I was talking to you about my idea about promoting the arts with a disc. Remember that? A CD and promote tourism and environment. All these years have gone by and I’m hoping that maybe that can be rekindled. Things were, what do they say, we were too fat and happy at the time. Now things are ahead of my time.
32:18
Now things are a little leaner. I’ve had a real good experience at the advisory board for Maui Electric for our 20-year energy future. Any feelings for solar energy and how we’re going to do renewable development? I think the potential is there. I went to a place in California. What’s the name of the place that had the windmills?
32:39
A whole field of windmills. On the way to Palm Springs they have them. They also have them at Livermore, on the way up to Livermore Labs. I stopped and watched that. It’s awesome. And they generate a lot of electricity through the wind. Here on Maui, on the island of Molokai, at Ho’olihua, it’s probably one of the windiest places in the whole state. And there was a scientist who was interested in putting up windmills. They never got off the ground.
33:09
Well, I heard Richard Cameron from, I guess now the Maui News, at the time, Campolua told me they got involved a little bit with those guys. I think the potential in solar, because I have a solar heater here in this house. My hot water is all by solar and it’s fine. So you get quite a bit of money. My whole plan is to attract, it’s funny, way back, I think it was about 1989 or 90,
33:35
when I spoke to Clark Champion over there in Wailea, and we talked about running lines under the then not developed golf course to be able to put modules out on the land Cebu owns and have power supplementing the need from all the hotels. Still can be done. I know that
33:58
the ability to do some of these alternative programs, where else would we think they’re doing them? But right here where our utility rates are high and we want to be self-sufficient, it’s exciting. I think that’s a whole avenue that’s wide open. I think so. We were just during the break talking years ago, I don’t know how many years ago. Almost 20 years, I guess.
34:23
Well, was it when you started doing that thing? Yeah. The station manager at KMBI, Dick Mawson, a very talented man, got the idea of putting on a Christmas skit during that holiday season, and he wrote the script, and he wrote it in such a way that every episode was a catastrophe. Santa Claus’s
34:52
The equipment was breaking down. The sled was broken. The reindeer was sick. All kinds of situations like that, you know. And they had a bunch of us acting, and I was Santa Claus. So we had a script to read, and we’d continue the story. And people got all wrapped up in the story because they wondered, well, what’s going to happen next?
35:19
Are those reindeer going to get well and pull that sled and all that kind of stuff. You were on council at the time? What were you doing at the time? Yeah, I was a member of the council then. Late in the afternoon I rushed down to the station and we just read it once and go. And Nora Cooper was in the play also. And then at the end of the play, about the last fifteen minutes, I read letters from the kids to Santa.
35:49
Santa, I’m a good boy, I want so and so and so.” I would read those letters. So one day, I’m at home having dinner with the family, Charmaine and the other two kids were there, and this program came on the air. And Charmaine says to Mother, you know, Mom, that sounds like Dad. And Mother, well, how can it be? He’s right here. She says, yeah, but really, it should sound like that.
36:18
But then the matter passed. Years later, she found out that I was the guy. She said, that’s the first time my father ever lied to me. And the last. And the last. That’s right. Now, you did this radio thing a lot. I had a friend, Gabrielle Olivier, who went to your office. You tell the story so good. I love the way you tell the story. Well, she came in one day and she said,
36:48
say anything at Christmas time. Do you have a Christmas message?” This was when you were the mayor? Yeah, I was the mayor. I said, well, I would like to, but I haven’t given it much thought. She said, well, I have one for you. There you go. She reaches into the bag and brings out this printed statement, and it was very well done. She’s got a gift of words, and I read it. I said, gee, okay, let’s do it. All right, I’ll make arrangements. She goes out to the station. She talks to people down there.
37:15
Next thing you know, I’m down there with music in the background and everything else, and we put on the message. And you kept doing it all the time. Made a big hit. I was surprised. Did you ever think about putting out a record? No. I had a lot of fun doing it. Well, you know, I think what I remember most, when you were mayor and I came to you, what I appreciated so much was how down to earth you were.
37:41
And how realistic. I remember I was dealing on that energy thing, and there were some people in Australia, and then there was the people here, and I think you told me, we have a little too much red tape here to get this thing done. Get over to Australia, which I did, and in fact the chief engineer over there passed away, and so it changed the results of things, which may open up this window of opportunity back here on Maui again for the people of Maui.
38:11
how open you were to just being down there. Well, I always had this attitude that some day some guy will walk in there with an idea that you never dreamed of. Listen to him. See what he has to say. Well, I’ve always appreciated that in you. Anything that you’d like to say to the people of Maui that you know they’ve been interested in? Anything that you want to say? Well, I would say that as citizens, be alert.
38:42
Keep up what’s going on. Read the newspapers. Attend the meetings whenever possible. Talk to your elected officials. Let them know how you feel about things that are important to you, because it will make a difference. Well spoken. Are you still active doing stuff at all? Yeah, I talk to a lot of people, and the phone rings all the time.
39:10
Some people think I’m still the mayor. There’s a little story about that. Do we call you mayor? I don’t think there’s anything written anywhere, but it’s kind of an unwritten policy that if you’re no longer the mayor because your term ran out, you can always be called mayor.
39:31
But if you are defeated, you’re finished. You lose a title. So you’re still mayor of Tavares? I’m still mayor. I don’t know how I got into that policy. Well, do you have any plans for getting away? No, I think I’ll stay in the background and help people. I’m in a position to give advice, I think, based upon years of being in the firing line.
39:59
And I’m always willing to sit down. Every election, there’s some new candidates who ask to come and talk to me about plans, how to put the campaign together. And I’ll spend the time of day. I think it’s important. You know, when we first sat down, I guess it was maybe a handful of months ago, when we had lunch with Dr. Glenn Olds and his wife. Oh, yeah. I love that. And Virginia and the whole group.
40:26
quite exciting for me. I wonder how many people here really knew how close you were to having that Capstone University here. We came very close. I had dreams about a four-year college on Maui so that a youngster could go out and get his bachelor’s degree. And Glenn O. happened to come to the scene. We met. We started talking, one thing leads to another. He said, gee, maybe he could have an extension of
40:55
University of Alaska, come right here to Manolo in Makawa. Where now Job Corps is. Yeah, where Job Corps is. We went down, we took a look, the potential was there, and we started moving along that direction, and then his plan got dinged by his church. I guess they felt that there’d be too much money going out. Yeah, and taken away from the glory of their deal. I felt bad about that.
41:23
The Maui kids can get their two years of college at MCC, and then they’re stuck. And to go to the campus of Manoa costs a fortune. And there’s something to be said about the media television. You can get it from a distance. But I know I myself couldn’t replace sitting in class with all those beautiful girls. I don’t just want to be alone watching a television screen.
41:49
You get a lot more education hands-on, I think. Oh, of course, yeah. And then you get to know the professor. He gets to know you, and he’s right there to answer your questions, and it’s live and it’s real, you know? And I was hoping that would happen, and Glenn was all for it. Right. He’s still passionate about it. He wanted to come and live over here. He bought that house, I remember. Well, you know, I still think it can happen. I’m always lost. I see with Linda, Lingo.
42:19
It’s still very much in favor of a four-year college, and I wish something happens along the line there because our kids are getting shortchanged. I thought Glenn’s idea and your idea about a university that had years three and four. That’s all we needed. And not to try to duplicate the one and the two. Don’t reinvent the wheel. We’ve got the first two. All we need is a second two. I thought that was really a good idea. He was all for it. He thought it could be done.
42:47
I’d like to see it happen. I’d still like to see it happen. Well, I think there still is, I’m sure, meetings about the development of the university. But I wonder if they’re keeping that in mind, that they don’t have to develop a four-year school. Well, every time I talk anywhere, I’ve always talked about two more years is all we need. Right. Good. Junior and senior year. And if they want to go to graduate work, that’s something else.
43:10
Sure. So do you feel that there’s anything that the people of Maui need to hear that they don’t want to hear? How’s that question? Some kind of thing. I think the people are very much concerned about Maui’s rapid growth. And they see evidence of a lot of traffic on the highway. And at certain times of the day, it bothers them a lot.
43:39
And so you hear them remarking things. Maui is going too fast. Maui is not Maui. But how do you stop progress? Well, I think that my goal is, I don’t think we can stop progress, but it’d be nice to do it in a way that walks gently on the land. Yeah, that’s where master planning came into play. Use that as a proper tool. You can control a lot of growth.
44:07
You’ve heard about this EIS thing for planning. It’s an environmental- Oh, yeah. Yeah. You think we’re close to that, maybe? I thought we were just about there, and I don’t know what happened after that. Just the money thing? When Chris was still there, we were ready to go, you know? Wow. I was all for it. So they’ve been talking about it that long? A long time, yeah, a long time. Wow. Chris was a good planner.
44:34
There are so many people in the community, as you know, who are absolutely sensitive to what we’re doing with the land. I know, I know. Sometimes I would wish that people would come out before the fact. You know, it’s very easy to criticize after the fact. You say, well, look, if we were going to do it your way, there would be no jobs. Your kids would finish high school and they’d try to get a job at a plantation.
45:01
There’d be no jobs available there. So they go away. You lose them. Chances are you lose them forever. They never come back. Is that what you want? We’re trying to stop that. We’re trying to create jobs here in Maui so the family can stay together if they want to. Well, a lot of them don’t even think of that. They don’t realize how true that is.
45:22
Well, you watch. You’re going to see me. I’m going to be active out there. I can’t seem to get away from it, because I keep thinking that we can diversify our economy, create jobs developing environmental products, do things here that will show off to the whole world, get jobs here. Lots of jobs. Look what’s happening in Kauai with their coffee. They’re growing great guns. They’re producing a darn good coffee in the west end of the island. Now with plantations closing down, you’ve got some prime land available.
45:51
of all kinds. I’m a little bit chagrined that we don’t have enough Maui papayas. I eat a papaya every day. I’ve got to get mine from the Big Island. I’d rather get one from here. Why do you get them from the Big Island? Those are the only ones that supply us. Oh, that’s a good reason. Well, we just have to grow more. Now, I just met him the other day. Right.
46:15
Charles Borner. Chuck Borner with Ono Farms. With Ono Farms. He’s got some darn good papayas. I buy that at his farmer’s market in Kahului. He’s in Kipahulu. Yeah, in Kipahulu. He’s in Kipahulu, but farmer’s market in Kahului as well. Yeah, he comes in every Wednesday. So I just wrote him a letter about his papaya. Well, you know, I am very interested in the papaya because we have a source.
46:43
that’s on the mainland that we’ll buy if we want to create them. All the papayas we can create. And there’s all kinds of new technology for cooling and drying and things. Papayas are a great target of a product that can be really valuable. You’ve got to be able to take care of the bugs in it. Talking about irradiation, there’s a piece in the paper this morning, a big island counter has approved it. Well, that’s dangerous for the future of all produce from these islands. Well, there’s a lot of disagreement on that.
47:13
Well, I know that, again, maybe now isn’t the subject, but this thermoacoustics, the ability to use a heat to generate a sound that will create cooling and use the waste heat for steam drying and cleaning instead of irradiation, I’ve been getting- Anybody working on that? Well, it’s like, I just talked to Senator Akaka’s office, because I’ve put it out to
47:38
I don’t want to name names here, but all of our Senate and House state representatives, and they’re so busy. What’s the expression? Sometimes it’s difficult to remember that your original intention is to drain the swamp when you’re up to your eyes in alligators. But I’ve told these people all this idea, and now we have to take it another step. This is an important technology that could be incredibly valuable here.
48:05
You watch out, we’re going to have a show about it, but I think these are the kind of things that we need to have happen here. Because if they find some way of getting the bugs in that papaya, you can’t beat the Hawaii papaya. That’s right. They’ve got good papaya in Mexico, but they can’t compare with ours. We’ve got the best papaya. Papa papaya, we call it. Well, you know, some years ago, A&B experimented with papaya in Puna Nei.
48:32
And their objective was to have a large crop of papaya properly treated and sent back on the Matson freighter, because Matson was coming loaded and going back empty. Right. And it just did not pan out, but the papaya was good quality. They called it Princess Papaya, the little solo papaya, sweet as can be. And they powdered it all under and gave it up. Well, we can unpowder it. I felt bad when they did that.
49:00
My feeling was they should have given it to some farmer and let the farmer do it. Because they had the picking equipment, they had the elevated platform, and all of it was done scientifically by the engineering group. Well, maybe we can rekindle it. You know, there’s a growing realization that we need to be self-sufficient here and grow more of our crops locally for all our food.
49:27
is one of the best places in the whole state for papaya. Really? Because the rainfall is just about right. Hana has too much rain, and that rain kind of interferes with the tree, and the roots begin to deteriorate. But a place like Kihei, you’ve got a lot of sun all day long. You have more sun in Kihei than almost any place else. Right. And they produce a beautiful papaya.
49:56
Papaya and mango. Just excellent. I was hoping that somebody would take a couple hundred acres and do it. Well, not this century. Well, Peter Bowen has a lot of land available. There’s a lot of land available. Peter, take heed. I’ll buy you papayas.
50:21
Yeah, you know, I’m sure that a lot of ideas hopefully will come, like you say. People have to be receptive. Maybe them seeing you and me here and knowing we don’t really have disagreements. I could call you Green easy. Want to change parties? You know, when you come up with a product like a good papaya and put it on the market and people buy it and it tastes good, before you know it, there’s a run on it. They all want it. That’s what happened at Kīpahulu.
50:50
You know, when I first tasted it, I was having dinner with Olds and you. Oh, yeah, yeah. At the lodge. Oh, with the sticker on it. I remember. And they came out with this papaya, and I looked at the papaya. I said, I want half of that. So I got half of it, and it was so good, I came back and tried to find out who the guy was, and I called him. And he got all excited. He said, great papaya.
51:17
We can do commercials. We’ll do them on ABC. We’ll have Maya Tavares with Ono Papayas. Okay. That’s a good one, huh? Yeah. You don’t go wrong with that. And you won’t go wrong with that, boy. That’s for sure. I’m going to take a quick break so we can bring Ariel in and we’ll say goodbye to everyone. How’s that sound? We’ll be back in a moment. And it’s sweet.
51:40
I got a sweet tooth as long as it tastes sweet. That’s because you’re so sweet. Well, it’s been so wonderful to have you here today. I know that all these wonderful people here have enjoyed having your presence. You know the thing that really hit home one day was when I ended up in the hospital and there was a story in the paper that I had a slight heart attack.
52:10
Practically every church came to my room, Buddhists, Mormons, Catholics, Protestants. I couldn’t believe it. They all came to pray for me. Wow, yeah. That’s so wonderful. It helped. Prayer is, you know, they now have scientific studies done on the power of prayer.
52:33
I love that. That’s true. I’ve always believed that. Yes. I’ve always believed that. Yes. It’s so effective. You know, like when I had my open-heart surgery, I died on the operating table for eight seconds. Wow. They massaged my heart and it started going again. It’s been going ever since. They put a pacer in. Everything’s fine.
52:57
And I have not a doubt that all those people praying for you made all that difference. All those prayers began to make a difference. Absolutely. You know, I have a little story that…
53:12
Someone I know tells that her workshops that had happened, an actual story about the power of prayer. And this woman was in a car accident, a pretty bad car accident. And she went out of her body. And she could see all of these cars around her. She could hear what was going on in these other cars.
53:34
And she could hear people saying things like, oh, no, not now, I have to get to work, oh, this is just what I need, you know, all this stuff that people do when this kind of traffic jam happens. And from this one car, there was this incredible light radiating. And she was attracted to it, and she, like, was attracted to this light. And this woman in the car was praying for her. I remember that.
53:58
and she was so touched and and she said that it made the difference in her life and somehow i guess she was conscious enough to get the license plate of this woman the surgeon was telling me about you know my heart stopping and he said did you experience anything so i kind of put on my acting face and i said yeah as a matter of fact i did experience that what was that well i found myself in
54:27
talking to St. Peter. And he brought out his big book, and he was going down the list, and he says, Tavares, Hannibal? He asked. Oh, it says that you used to be the mayor of Maui County. I said, yeah, that’s right. He said, well, we’re sending you back
54:44
Because we don’t want any mares up here you guys want to take over. The doctor looked at me and said, did he say that? That’s so funny.
55:01
Very powerful. The outcome of this story is she healed, and she went to this lady’s house through her license plate and brought her flowers and thanked her, and this lady was blown away. She felt that it made a big difference. That reminds me. Every June, I send a bouquet of flowers to my surgeon in Honolulu, and let us have a short note saying, thanks for saving my life.
55:29
He wrote back to me and said, the first guy would do that. How wonderful. We’ve enjoyed having you here with us. I wish we had more time to go on. And you’re a welcome guest. If you’d ever like to come back, we’d love to have you. In fact, we would even make you our third host. Moe, Larry, and Curly. I don’t know which is which. That’s us.
55:57
Well, thank you, everyone, for being here with us with Mayor Tavares and Arielle and myself here on Mama Presents. We hope to see you again. Aloha. Aloha. I got a sheet for you this morning. You look beautiful.
56:23
No matter where you go, no matter what you do, take that Maui style with you. Cause if you ain’t Maui styling, you just living on an island. Maui styling, don’t let me down. Maui styling, don’t let me down. Maui styling, don’t let me down. Maui styling, don’t let me down. There is sunshine in Maui.
56:48
In your heart It’s been with you From the start Lift your head Look to the heavens Then you will feel Brand new again Don’t stop me now My waist I lift Don’t let me down My waist I lift Don’t let me down
57:17
My waist tight, don’t let me down Reach out your hand and help each other Your mother, your father, your sister and brother There is love in this family
57:41
Pick yourself up and get on your feet. Don’t stop me now. Maui’s Thailand. Don’t let me down. Maui’s Thailand. Don’t let me down. Maui’s Thailand. Don’t let me down. Maui’s Thailand.
57:58
Don’t let me down.
58:26
Maui Stylin’ don’t let me down Maui Stylin’ don’t let me down Maui Stylin’ don’t let me down Maui Stylin’ don’t let me down Maui Stylin’ don’t let me down Maui Stylin’ Maui Stylin’ Maui Stylin’ Maui Stylin’ don’t let me down Maui Stylin’
59:06
THE END
