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Jason Schwartz with Vincent Mina HFUU 2 -21- 21- Vince is a strong advocate for the Farmers on Maui… and everywhere. He and Jason discuss Agriculture and the future of maui, legislation ideas and mention of IMPORTANCE of REPLENISHING THE SOIL as a priority for the FUTURE of Mankind, and Most assuredly Maui. Great conversation
Summary & Full Timestamped Transcript Below…
Introduction and Guest Background
- [00:00 → 01:31]
Jason Schwartz introduces the show and welcomes his guest, Vince Mina, a longstanding farmer on Maui since 1978. Vince is initially described as “the sunflower sprouts guy,” though he clarifies that his work extends far beyond just microgreens and sprouts. Vince explains the regulatory challenges farmers face, especially related to the classification of microgreens versus sprouts, which impacted their business with Whole Foods due to costly certification demands. This highlights the complex landscape farmers navigate, balancing safety, regulations, and practical farming realities.
Farmers’ Advocacy and Agricultural Organization
- [01:31 → 03:55]
Vince talks about his role in organizing farmers on Maui through the Hawaii Farmers Union (HFUU) before larger initiatives like Mahi Pono existed. He discusses the absence of a formal Department of Agriculture on Maui, despite a recent charter amendment to create one, and contrasts this with the existing Hawaii State Department of Agriculture, which primarily functions as a regulatory body. Vince emphasizes the need for advocacy departments that prioritize farmer support and community-driven agriculture.
Impact of COVID-19 on Agriculture and Innovative Responses
- [03:55 → 07:49]
The conversation shifts to the COVID-19 pandemic’s impact on farming. Vince introduces a speaker series featuring Paul Stamets, a mycologist conducting FDA-approved studies on COVID-19 using mycelial networks. Paul’s research with bees demonstrates how mycelium extracts improve hive health, highlighting alternative approaches to health beyond vaccination. Vince shares his personal, nuanced views on vaccinations and the complexities of viruses within human systems, stressing the importance of holistic health and the interconnectedness of nature and human immunity.
Farming Journey and Agricultural Community Climate
- [07:49 → 13:34]
Vince recounts his personal journey into farming, which began at age 40 after transitioning from decorative painting. His exposure to Acres USA conferences and soil health pioneers inspired him. He and his wife launched soil health conferences and started the HFUU chapter to promote sustainable agriculture. Vince acknowledges progress in Maui’s farming community, particularly with many young farmers passionate about healthy, resilient systems. He advises focus on personal impact rather than divisive debates like GMO controversies, emphasizing working in harmony with nature’s architecture.
GMO Debate and Farmer Union Origins
- [13:34 → 18:29]
Vince reflects on the GMO debates on Maui, describing the legislative task force that included diverse agricultural stakeholders aiming to coexist. He shares the organic farmers’ influence in advocating for soil vitality and natural farming methods over chemical inputs. He reminisces about early organic farmer leaders like Roy Smith and Diana Dollar and the challenges of leadership in grassroots movements. Vince stresses pragmatic, grounded efforts in farming rather than idealistic or divisive rhetoric.
Maui Food Hub and Agricultural Politics
- [18:29 → 21:25]
The discussion turns to the Maui Food Hub, which HFUU helped initiate with county funding aimed at supporting farmers and feeding the community. Vince explains how political dynamics and organizational conflicts led to the Food Hub operating independently of HFUU, resulting in funding challenges. He criticizes the internal politics that hinder cooperative progress but remains hopeful about future collaboration.
Soil Health and Cover Crops Explained
- [21:25 → 27:06]
Vince delves into the science and philosophy of soil health, using his own farm and cover crops like sun hemp as examples. He describes the process of using a roller crimper to kill cover crops while preserving roots underground, which build humic substances and foster healthy microbial and mycelial networks. This symbiotic relationship between plants and microbes enhances nutrient availability, supporting resilient, bug-resistant growth. Vince critiques chemical farming’s negative effects on soil calcium and overall fertility, advocating for regenerative practices that rebuild soil naturally.
Large-Scale Farming and Mahi Pono Perspective
- [27:06 → 33:48]
Addressing large-scale farming, specifically Mahi Pono’s acquisition of 40,000 acres, Vince acknowledges initial community resistance but recognizes their potential to be part of the solution. He praises their efforts in planting trees, conducting cover crop trials, and supporting smaller farmers through community farmlands. Vince highlights the importance of practical cooperation over ideological opposition and notes that many critics are not actively farming themselves. He underscores the daily challenges of farming and the need for grounded, hands-on work rather than outside commentary.
Small-Scale Farming Success and Family Legacy
- [33:48 → 38:57]
Vince shares how he and his wife farm on a 2,500-square-foot lot, producing half a million pounds of food over 27 years without chemicals. He honors his wife Irene’s leadership and their late son’s involvement and passion for farming. The story of how their farm began—with Irene purchasing sunflower greens and Vince deciding to grow them himself—illustrates the power of passion and commitment. Vince encourages others to trust their passion and not be limited by land or equipment constraints.
Vision for Maui’s Agricultural Future and Tourism Integration
- [38:57 → 44:50]
Vince reflects on Maui’s agricultural potential as a “Lamborghini sitting in the driveway” that needs to be driven—i.e., actively developed. He envisions an agricultural system integrated with tourism to create a sustainable, abundant economy honoring the environment. He recounts past experiences hosting farm tours that deeply impacted visitors and advocates for a marriage of agriculture and tourism that respects local values. Vince contrasts this with less desirable developments like casinos, emphasizing the importance of aligning tourism with agricultural and environmental priorities.
Whole System Agriculture and Indigenous Wisdom
- [44:50 → 49:55]
Vince explains a holistic agricultural system inspired by indigenous practices, describing how grazing animals like cows contribute to soil health by cycling nutrients and stimulating root growth. He recounts the work of Dr. Weston Price on nutrient-dense traditional diets and connects this to regenerative farming practices such as bone broth production and biochar application. Vince highlights how these practices cycle nutrients back into the soil and promote microbial life, illustrating a closed-loop system that sustains both plant and human health.
Challenges to Collaboration and the Need to Slow Down
- [49:55 → 52:44]
The conversation touches on broader societal and cultural issues, noting that the fast pace and high alertness of island life inhibit true communication and cooperation. Vince views COVID-19 as an opportunity to slow down, reset, and reconsider how humans collaborate with nature and each other. He stresses respect, collaboration, and cooperation as essential for sustainable progress, echoing his agricultural philosophy on a community level.
Current Initiatives and Future Directions
- [52:44 → 56:56]
Vince shares ongoing work with the Natural Resource Conservation Service (NRCS) and other agencies to establish a cover crop seed industry in Maui County. He outlines how this initiative would build a foundation for a true agricultural system by enhancing soil health and supporting farmers with infrastructure. Vince describes his farm’s operational rhythm—recycling compost, managing microgreens, and balancing production cycles—and stresses the importance of community support and institutional cooperation to maintain this rhythm sustainably.
Closing Thoughts and Call to Action
- [56:56 → 01:02:38]
Vince reflects on the political and social realities of agriculture in Hawaii, acknowledging differences in farming approaches while emphasizing respect and legality. He praises Jason Schwartz for creating a platform that fosters constructive dialogue and expresses hope for continued collaboration. Vince invites viewers to join HFUU as members to strengthen the farmers’ voice in the legislature. He also promotes an upcoming event featuring Paul Stamets and musician Micah Nelson focused on innovative agricultural and health topics. The interview concludes with mutual appreciation and encouragement to stay positive and engaged.
Key Insights and Themes
- Farmers’ Advocacy Is Crucial: Vince’s leadership in HFUU highlights the need for organized farmer voices in policymaking and community support.
- Soil Health Is the Foundation: Regenerative agriculture, especially using cover crops, microbial symbiosis, and biochar, is essential for sustainable farming and nutrient-dense food production.
- Agriculture-Tourism Integration: Maui’s future prosperity depends on blending agriculture with tourism in ways that honor the land, culture, and environment.
- Holistic and Indigenous Wisdom: Traditional farming and dietary knowledge, such as those promoted by Weston Price and indigenous practices, inform modern regenerative agriculture.
- Collaboration Over Division: Both in farming and community life, cooperation, respect, and shared purpose are critical for meaningful progress.
- Practicality and Passion: Vince exemplifies how dedication, adaptability, and focusing on one’s own farm’s impact can create lasting change amidst challenges.
- COVID-19 as a Reset Opportunity: The pandemic offers a chance to slow down, rethink, and strengthen connections with nature and community.
Conclusion
This in-depth conversation with Vince Mina offers a comprehensive view of the challenges, philosophies, and innovations shaping Maui’s agricultural landscape. From grassroots organizing and soil science to large-scale farming and community integration, Vince’s insights provide a hopeful yet realistic roadmap for building a resilient, abundant, and connected agricultural future on the islands.
Transcript
00:00
[Music] aloha my name is jason schwartz i’m the host here at the neutral zone mauineutralzone.com we are on kaku 88.5 fm radio here in mali and we’re on akaku maui community media you’ll find us up on youtube all the time and all of our shows at mauineutralsdone.com today i have a great guest i have someone that has been on maui for a long time and i got here in 78 78 years you can’t no no i got here in 78. i know i know this is vince mina some of you know him and say oh i knew that was vince mina
00:56
but we are a show that’s local but we’re finding that we’re watched by people all over the world and our intention is to have you watch it all over the world because why vince mina how would i describe you i think of you as the uh sunflower sprouts guy but that’s this very limited view well you know what’s interesting about that is uh um i’m very careful politically about that because uh we were basically micro greens politically you know that’s how it is because uh when we were
01:31
we had an account we were original one of the original accounts with whole foods and uh when they changed amazon they came in and told us that we had to get hassub certified which is basically you know put put hazard materials outfits on and uh sterilize our compost and i go what for because you guys are sprouts i said we’re not sprouts we’re microgreens you know federal the federal folks see us as that because we’re a crop we grow in a compost medium we cut it and uh clean it and then you know sell
02:03
it and um and they said no your sprouts and i said well um you’re wrong and uh but obviously they they were trying to limit liability any any kind of liability to me that would hurt the sale going through now but that was a 55 000 a year account we lost because we would not you know play that game um so that whole food safety piece is a real um difficult piece to have our farmers to have to deal with especially when um probably the the safest way to stay healthy is to be in relationship with our farmers in a
02:41
way that you don’t put onerous regulations on them but that’s a subject we can that’s a world we can go down so besides being microgreens i mean i you know the one i think of you i think of you the hawaii farmers union that’s you imagine you were one of the principals if not the principal to start it to get farmers organized to better dress things here this is before we had a mahi pono a giant elephant in the room you were organizing farmers to create a presence for probably one of
03:19
the most important industries in an island community like us truly i don’t know if there is is there a uh a department of farming here is this such a thing no well you know as you know that recently in the elections they had a charter amendment to create a department of agriculture uh on maui and uh so we’re it’s in the very early stages of all that i don’t nobody has contacted me regarding that uh as to where it’s at but um from what i understand you know it it’s setting out to be an advocacy
03:55
department and i sit on the hawaii state department of agriculture and um it’s a regulatory department unfortunately uh in the spirit that that’s how it’s tasked out there’s so many issues around agriculture that you know regulation comes i don’t know a government agency that’s never been about regulation but um you know we’ll see how that all moves so they almost need what we know an advocate that’s why i think about you all the time whenever i have seen you speaking
04:30
you’re speaking for the farmers and you come what do you think right now if i were gonna we are now in covent times which is 2021 i just saw this morning they’re expecting us to be wearing masks into 22. so this thing that is around is around i imagine it’s affected everything in the farming community additionally right well you know covet 19 um we’re going to have a special guest on our speaker series that starts this coming wednesday february 24th uh who spoke at our convention and that’s
05:07
the mycologist out of the northwest paul stamets and paul received fda approval to study covid using the mycelial network through san diego state university and um you know his work is so cutting edge around the fact that you know looking at our immunities how can we best as a human species connect to what the immune system wants and needs and um and so he’s done a great study on the bees using extracts from the mycelial network to uh put into sugar water and put these stations around for bees
05:56
to get this sugar water and take it back to their hives and notice an increase in the health of the hive so you know we’re not hearing about this direction from our national politicians we’re not seeing us going in this direction everything is vaccinate vaccinate vaccinated as if it’s a the panacea for for dealing with covid and we have you know it’s an interesting thing to me that these pharmaceutical which i call cartels these pharmaceutical cartels are making a lot of money uh creating these and then they come out
06:34
and say well they may not work because there’s variance well you know uh dr zach bush has quoted that there’s 10 to the five viruses we have in our body right now so you know the human system is such a complex and yet a miracle of the systems uh it’s uh you know i personally i have some i have some you know strong views about about vaccinations and uh you know i just uh feel that that’s a that’s a that’s a rabbit hole we’re going down that i don’t uh subscribe to
07:10
a lot of people do i mean i’m also interested when i hear that i’ve seen both far left and far right political people vaccines are not they rise above political interest that’s when suddenly people get personal about things right and i’m not you know whoever wants to go down that road godspeed you know this is not this is not about judging anyone uh what they do this is more about uh what in my own personal interests uh do i want to be connected to while on this plane and i’ve been seeing these pictures
07:49
coming out of mars and it’s really interesting to me and that you know there’s kind of looks like haleakala you know and and being an avid hiker into haleakala you know and and what that represents uh that kind of a barren landscape um has this deafening silence to it that is just feeds the soul and so you wonder you know um these extreme places here on the planet earth uh still are full of life and um and it’s just a it’s a it’s kind of a you know it’ll be interesting to see what comes
08:24
out of all this uh i’m sorry to be jumping in to mars but it’s it’s a it’s it’s it’s this miracle that we live in uh which we call earth and our universes is um notwithstanding uh continuing to be such a wonder for me personally and and that’s why i’m so a hat and have been so uh fortunate to be able to work in the realm of agriculture here in hawaii um no other place in the planet what i want to be right now especially in these times and uh and then also as a laboratory
09:00
to things that uh i feel in my heart and feel with my passion are are important directions to go into and and the results are just astounding and so being a farmer for the past 27 years has really helped me go down these roads and these paths and and i i really feel uh enriched by them um do you think uh there’s anything right now i mean i almost don’t know where to begin when you talk about that it makes me think about all that you’ve learned here 27 years so you’ve been here like me
09:35
long enough to to see we could have gone a different direction with things how is farming doing here in general what do you see as a climate in the the farm community well you know i didn’t get into farming until i was 40. um so when i first came here i was a decorative painter and um and so in 19 this from 78 to 94 i was doing that and in 94 when our daughter was born that’s when i got into farming and um i went to akers usa conference because i had been an acres usa subscriber since 1981 when i got
10:15
uh you know i was gardening basically and um i was blown away by the level of communication that was happening around agriculture from these presenters and conventional all different forms of legal agriculture were at these conferences and their ears were like people were like this you know you look at these midwest farmers and they’re just all about wanting to hear uh uh ways of farming that could be changed the ways that they were doing things in the way they were taught things because they
10:44
just wasn’t working and so i learned so much from people i continue to stand on the shoulders of some icons in agriculture one being the former jerry brunetti who we brought here and who spoke here for seven years with the body and soil conferences my wife and i produced we started we had our first soil health conference in 1998 with the ag park and that was just amazing bob schaefer was an agronomist from big island spoke and michael clapper dr michael clapper so we were looking at this relationship back then
11:19
between this is the body and the soil and then we got a grant through hawaii farmers organic farmers association that i was president in 1998 we got a grant from maui county and and and we started putting on these conferences and looking at this relationship our first big one was at uh maui tropical plantation and that was at the point where they were starting to think about selling that place and and i was after that conference i thought you know this would be a great place to have a soil health institute
11:49
and so obviously a little ahead of our time there um but um you know speaking of the man that you brought in michael smith is that his name michael smith yeah yeah and i mean that that could really uh that you know i can see where that’s that’s going to be more closer to reality than not and having a place to where you can have that kind of a laboratory and put out materials that would really help build rebuild our soils so as far as agriculture here to answer your questioning of my my view of
12:22
agriculture here um being at it for as long as i’ve been at it and and and also in the trench as a family farmer uh i feel like we’ve come a long way um the needle hasn’t moved that much as to where we really need to go as an island community but there’s a lot of great farmers out there people are just you know producing some amazing uh crops and and quantity and and and doing it in a way that’s really healthy and and vibrant and to create resilient systems within their uh farms and and a lot of
13:02
them are young which is great you know we have a lot of great young people who are just uh very excited the millennials very excited about it what i’ve been uh uh guiding i feel uh in that respect is with them is to like don’t get so wrapped up in the uh and the right and wrong uh and don’t get so wrapped up in what other people are doing just be focused in on the difference that you can make personally on your farm and uh so that because at one point when we had this moratorium on gmos here on
13:34
the island you know people are talking about the gmos are going to take over the island and blah blah and that i knew that technology is kind of collapsing on it on its own way uh that you know nature for me nature is um it’s like trying to take two magnets and put them together you know at some point it repels and unless unless we’re um in line in alignment with the architecture of nature and how nature has it set up um and we and we follow those that path and we follow that the the laws of nature
14:09
then it’ll just repel and that’s what gmos were uh that’s where they come to with them you remember they used to ship out 200 000 pounds on a commercial airlines a week of gmo seed to feed the king corn back on the mainland and that was the panacea i mean back in uh you know i sat on the farm bureau board from 2005 to 2008 to make a difference here locally and our our organization maui lahaina that was putting on these conferences uh had a grant under from the county and that went through the farm bureau
14:42
so you know i wanted to make sure that we had kept continue to have that educational outreach available and um you know i couldn’t get soil health on the agenda so that’s where i went out and started the farmers union um jerry burnetti in my frustration and talking with him about all that he said why don’t you get a chapter in the national farmers union and i hadn’t heard about them and so that’s why i wanted looking into it and realized that wow this would be a great organization
15:09
to have here because when i was on the farm bureau board because i was an officer we went and had a year-long meetings of the task force that was created through the legislature because of gmos coming onto the scene so so you know big in agriculture uh the legislature was like we had no idea you know come and tell us and so they were asking farm bureau uh to to guide a device as to uh and we had farm bureau and then we had organic farmers and we had uh conventional farmers and gmo farmers all at the table for a year and that was
15:46
pretty amazing um opportunity to to just you know facilitated work together to see how we could quote coexist and um what came out of it was uh a lot of the input was done by the organic farmers uh and rightfully so because the you know organic isn’t about just taking uh some pebbles out of some granules out of a bag and throwing it around your plant this is like you see behind me this is about you know um covering the soil and building the vitality in the soil and uh and then you know with through
16:24
that resiliency be able to grow our food so uh what came out of it was a the majority in the room wanted to we brought forward that we wanted to have an alternative report and they they wanted to call it a minority report you know the subtlety will knock you over and uh and so we had a report that basically you know stated that you know you don’t need all this chemical inputs you don’t need to have um the uh what with the path that they were going down you don’t need to go to war with nature
16:57
um you just need to understand this architecture and emulate that and uh but you know having the political will and support that around that is another another thing i hope that’s changing i mean it when you say the word gmo now everybody knows that means genetically modified organism and they think i used to think of getting maui organic but uh you know i remember when we talked about the organic farmers was that like roy smith that kind of time yeah roy you know roy was uh him and diana dollar
17:27
founders of hawaii or farmers yeah organic farmers association and roy i call them pentium you know that guy’s got an amazing brain and you know a lot though because you’re you know look let’s be real here you know back in the day of organic farming in the early 80s and such you know when when on maui here hopeful was being formed and such um when i became president nobody wanted to be president i mean i got on the board and nobody wanted to be president and so they went around the room and all
17:59
the people that have been on the boards and no no no no no no i want to do it and so i said well i’ll do it you know and i never been president of but i knew what i wanted to see a car and the first thing that they did when we had a board meeting was light up a joint i’m going nah then guys you know i mean i don’t want to get into pipe dreams here i want us to be able to come up with things that we can pragmatically see occur um and i think that’s been the failing of uh you know folks that that just you know
18:29
live in this world of oh you know maui is just blissful place and whatever you know and which it is but at the same time it still involves getting into the trench and waxing on and waxing off every day for like you know like our family’s done for the past 27 years to to be able to feed community in a way that you know is healthy for people and yourself you know that’s basically what we did it for was to you know be healthy ourselves and live walk the talk of what we felt is possible here on maui well we’re you
19:02
know uh these these times have created giant steps at a time how is maui hub doing maybe you want to describe maui well they’re an independent uh operation uh farmers unions uh was responsible for getting that off the ground as a matter of fact when the county came to me and said we have money for you folks to be able to give to the farmers buy food from the farmers and give it to the food bank that was when the maui hub was just just starting and so i went to the county and said you know would you be
19:37
open for us to take that money and instead of you know you know give it uh buying food from the farm to get to the food bank can we buy food for the farmers and then sell it to the people who have the wherewithal to buy it so we can take that money and put it back into the system and recreate you know to get this thing going to get this plane off the ground because it’s such a great concept and we’ve uh hfuu has had a strategic initiative for developing food hubs since our strategic planning in 2016. and so
20:09
we are all about you know creating a agricultural system here in the islands and part of that system is food hubs but they you know the the some nonsensical politics went on that you know when people can’t negotiate with one another then you got problems um and so there was an organization that was funding one of the farmers farms who was involved in that hub and uh and so there was some there was some you know decisions made through that because that that money that was invested i feel that
20:49
money was invested in the farmers decisions made to that to leaning towards that uh organization and so you know it’s it’s it’s it’s nonsense it’s just nonsense and unfortunately you know um they went they went independent i say unfortunately because uh you know hfu has nothing to do with it now and uh and there was money that was uh removed from one of our chapters that hasn’t been replaced and so you know it’s that kind of stuff um it’s just not it’s not good wow
21:25
so what do you think right now if you were to you know i was going to talk about the michael smith michael smith has got this it’s hard to claim to put wrap your arms around it in two words but if you can take our weight our green waste and turn it into uh power and turn it into products that can make things growing you know get tremendous great yield how was i last about a year ago right before covert michael smith came here and the initial response was like wow and kovitz kind of changed the
22:06
mood here but um you you talk about soil health i hope our audience out there after a while i wonder sometimes if our audience isn’t getting smarter and smarter you guys out there knows that means that the soil’s been depleted and how are you you’re gonna grow food if you don’t have nutrients in soils so all that stuff behind vince right now by example going back into the soil to replenish it and then get it into the cycle have you i guess when michael’s coming here again very soon so you’ll see him soon
22:44
we’re going to bring him by you because i think that order to see him again yeah good guy you’re probably a doorway to our large growers you know i mean when i talk about my hipono we talk about to me you know someone that has a lot of waste that could use it and can double their yield and have so much land i would think they’d be right there yeah well you know there’s no such thing as waste and and uh but the to deal with the the waste products that you’re talking about the products that you’re talking about
23:54
and this is right above where this is right where they’re going to be putting houses um up uh mauka of uh tropical plantation there and um but this was an amazing stand of uh sun hemp and what we did was we rolled and crimped it and as you can see behind me that that’s like the natural weed mat and this roller crimper goes on the front of the tractor and it has this chevron design this these metal blades in the sense that are about a half inch thick um that sit on the the roller crimper and so when you when
24:31
you drive it down the cover crop every seven inches it crimps it and and lays it down so this way the the cover crop is dead it ends up dying but the roots are in place in the ground and what that when when the cover crop dies these roots sloth off in the ground and and that organic matter begins to build humic substances because of all the biology that’s working on the breakdown of those roots and at the same time when you cut into this wheat mat natural weed mat and you plant into that and that that you can have on
25:10
the back of the tractor as you lay your drip line you can then grow a crop that in soil that hasn’t been disturbed because underneath that when that when that sun hip was growing it’s a nitrogen fixer that is establishing a mycelial network in the ground that fixes nitrogen for the plant to be able to take up now the plant roots when they go into the ground they’re exuding pulsing proteins and sugars from photosynthesis from the sun where those proteins and sugars going they’re feeding the microbes and the
25:52
microbes what’s amazing about the microbes and these microcellular network of fungi of hyphae of roots basically fungal roots that go through the soil they’re small enough that they can fit in between the platelets of the soil now the platelets of the soil they say a million colloidal you know from clay platelets can fit on a grain of sand you know so that’s how microscopic we’re talking about and these mycelial network these mycelial roots go on to those platelets all the the you
26:30
know the um elements uh there’s elements that are magnetized to these platelets these these microbial roots can pull those elements off of the platelets they bring it back to the plant roots and they go here we have some minerals for you available minerals for you to take up into your into your plant and thank you very much for your pulsing of the proteins and sugars because that’s like cookies and ice cream does and so there’s that symbiotic relationship that goes on with the mycelial with the microbial
27:06
world and the plant world that’s just invaluable because there was this work that was done by francis chicos so back in um he died in 85 i believe so he did a 50-year thesis on this and he was basically blacklisted by the cartoon pharmaceutical cartel but his theory and the work that he did said that when you flood the plant with available um with water soluble not available the water-soluble nutrients when you flood the plant with water-soluble nutrients it inhibits protein synthesis so you know what does that mean that means
27:46
basically you’re keeping the plant from expressing itself as a complete protein and think about us humans when we eat food we want complete proteins we don’t want incomplete proteins and so that being those that that being inhibited basically to happen then that’s when the bugs come in because the bugs have evolved to eat incomplete protein not complete protein so when you see a plant that isn’t being attacked by a bug that’s the plant you want to eat the ones that are being attacked by the
28:20
by the bug it’s compost to go again to see if you can get get you know grow those plants to where they’re expressing themselves as a complete protein so when they’re incomplete protein and the bugs come in that’s when the chemicals come in you know there was an interesting thing that occurred back in the day when um they were using anhydrous ammonia in warfare i think back in the 40s and um and that anhydrous ammonia was basically used to defoliate because it’s so high in nitrogen
28:51
to defoliate and make runways for plants planes to land during the war well when you put that kind of a high nitrogen into the soil it drives out calcium now that’s why that’s why the ground comes so hard and um and so after the war effort they had all this anhydrous ammonia left over and i said what are we going to do with it oh well wait a second it’s high in nitrogen the farmers can need nitrogen so they give it to the farmers the plants jump out on the ground and the farmers are like
29:22
wow this is great you know but because it jumps out of the ground and there’s a there’s calcium being depleted in the soil at the same time um they develop problems just think about our bodies if we drive calcium out of our bodies it’s osteoporosis you know and so calcium’s such an important player in the soil and so uh you know because of that that’s when the chemicals companies came in that they were given the anhydrous ammonia went well here we have something to fix that and
29:54
it got and it got farmers on this train of this this wheel of being addicted basically to these things and uh and then you have farmers who are so big that they can’t do without it you know there because their trajectory already started on going using this paradigm instead of a trajectory of building resiliency and the soil growing your soil first and then before you grow plants and that that that has not been the case do you see that i mean i don’t want to get too specific but someone that just acquires 40 000 acres
30:33
of land my pono it was a lot of time where people were looking and saying they’re not doing anything and then you say wait a minute first thing to do is build the soil so they’re preparing for the growing that’s a part that people need to better understand you just explain it really well that you’ve got to prepare the ground before you’re able to get a yield and then keep the things in the ground and like you say build the soil back by the nature of how you plant and what you plant
31:06
you’ve been involved i know with our large grower my opponent do you see that things like that are happening large yeah well you know i mean you know the answer that my opponent was such an easy target because it’s so big right and people people had an aversion to big i get it you know you really think that their target in my mind i’m thinking they could be a great solution i mean oh well yeah let me let me you know articulate what i’m talking there in the spirit that um they’re an easy target because when
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they came on the scene people were just all over them you know all this kind of stuff and i’ve been involved i you know i had a nice sit down with the leadership there and um you know i had my thoughts as that if i had 262 million dollars to buy the isthmus what would i do kind of thing but i didn’t have the 262 million dollars and uh and so it doesn’t really matter what i would do because i don’t i’m not the one that’s you know put the fork and the money out um and that’s an amazing thing when you
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think about 262 million just to buy the land let alone you haven’t done anything on it yet so they’re they’re putting out major money um uh to bring forth an operation uh would i do it differently than they’re doing yeah i do it differently and yet at the same time though i truly applaud and appreciate that they’re doing it that they’re actually committed to doing agriculture um and they planted their they should i’m hearing they should have a million trees in place um at the end of the year um that are
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planted there they are growing cover crop trials um they’re very interested in an initiative that i’m bringing forward around cover crops and supporting that um i’m on i’m a volunteer uh on the advisory board of their community farmlands uh me and three other farmers and that’s been a wonderful thing to get farmers local farmers two acres of land beautiful you know flat land on the smiths that’s that they’re putting fencing in that they’re putting wind breaks in that they
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stub out for water at 150 an acre per year uh plus water uh is just an amazing opportunity for farmers that i never had when i got into farming uh and so they’re you know they’re one they want to build community and they’re acting out that uh intention to build community it’s just that you know if there’s it’s it’s real sexy for people to be anti uh i don’t know whether what it is you know i think it’s it keeps yeah my my theory is that people that are really anti
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in the spirit of um not not actually wanting to hear oh you know or to talk or to just work together it’s because they they’re not really wanting to work in the trench you know they want to stand outside the trench and point fingers as to what people should be doing in the trench and so um i don’t have much time for that a lot of the noise is what i call it comes from a community that isn’t farming for a living if they were farming for a living then uh then i think they’re their mana will be a little bit tempered
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uh because nature basically kicks kicks me in the butt as a farmer every day i haven’t arrived anywhere uh and yet you know we still we stick to the tenants of our farm that it was that it was founded on and we have amazing results in that respect and yet you know nature doesn’t want to see me going to meetings and what have you nature wants me on my farm and lets me know when i’m not on my farm enough that i need to get back to it you know when i think of you i i you’ve been able to take small space and
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create big production yeah yeah right we produced on our postage stamp we live on a 9 000 square foot lot and 2500 of it is our farm and the reason why we farmed here was because i didn’t have land or equipment and it was zoned as a truck farm where we live and so um we’ve produced the past 27 years a half a million pounds of food off this postage stamp and we haven’t done it with any chemicals we recycle all of our media back onto the farm and reuse it we amend it we balance it and reuse it and
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um it’s a beautiful thing we’re so we so love our farm and uh my wife irene has been such a leader and she’s kanaka she was born in the owl valley uh and um and so you know one plus one equals three and if it wasn’t for irene we would not you know i would not be able to do the work i do in the community and you know our son kate kai when he was alive he started working on the farm when he was 10. he so loved the farm and he used to run in between tasks on a farm he wouldn’t walk he’d
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run and uh he was an amazing an amazing bright light on the farm and uh and yet the pressures of doing the advocacy work that i was doing in the community played on him he couldn’t understand why i was off the farm you know um i was basically setting it up for him to succeed the farm and uh you know there was other other things came to play to where he’s no longer on this plane unfortunately uh to do that but at the same time the farm continues and with his support from the other side um it was just his birthday yesterday’s
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37th birthday and so uh you know we’re we’re a fortunate family and it was interesting the start of that by the way uh was my daughter in the womb uh you know hearing her dad talk to his wife going you know honey i want to farm for a living i don’t want to paint anymore and uh kanu was saying here dad i’ll show you the way through mom and mom went to the store and came home with all these sunflower greens all these bags she bought everything off the shelf back when the farmer that was growing them and she would eat
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it all up and then go back the next day and you know be we knew all about that there was nothing it wasn’t there yet and so i said what do you keep buying it for i could grow them because i had i had let go of my painting trade i realized i realized at that point uh before you know as as as irene became pregnant with khanu i i realized that i’m swinging on this trapeze that i don’t want to be on and the trapeze that i want to be on is out there but i have to let go of the trapeze i’m on in order to get to the
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trapeze that i want to i want to be on and so that was farming and so i let go of my painting trade with a pregnant wife and she was very supportive knowing the passion i had around working the land and then so when she came home with all these sunflowers i mean i said why are you are you buying i might be growing why aren’t you growing them and that’s what started our farm 27 years ago so little did i realize that we could make a living on this postage stamp that we’re on great example for a lot of
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people i know well it’s been a great example for us i’ll tell you and i we you know i’m so fortunate because at 67 you know now i’m thinking wow had i not let go of that trapeze and trusted my passion and trusted the the values that i have around working the land uh then i’d still be in you know grumbling about not being able to farm and you you know using not having land or not having equipment is an excuse but and we so we’ve come a long way i feel here on maui agriculturally it’s just uh
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um and it’s not just from me of course i mean there’s so many amazing farmers out there i’m just happy to be part of it all well to me you’ve been very the most visible and your manner is not a fronting and not put off to a lot of people so i’m i’m thinking that a lot of people have heard your voice as a voice of stability in this whole thing moving forward i always think of you as if i have get an opinion about someone something with ag no matter what it is i think about you because oh that’s
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funny thank you yeah you know being on a show with you and god knows a handful of years ago i don’t know how they picked us to be together as guests together on that all right that’s right we did that yeah what brought us on uh yeah i remember that yeah that was great but um well you’ve done you’ve done you’ve done you know and you continue to do great work in the community i love your the title of the neutral zone because look it isn’t i i don’t consider myself neutral but at the same time
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it’s not us versus them i mean until people get out of this paradigm of the us versus them then we’re not going to go anywhere of substance and so basically you want to hear what i’m doing now um going forward i um knowing full well that we don’t have an agricultural system here in hawaii um i call it it’s a lamborghini sitting in the driveway you know agriculturally we we have we have to take it out for an agricultural spin we haven’t done that we are in a place on this planet that
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that can grow and does grow amazing plant specimens just amazing plants specimens and um and if we had the political will to exercise what this island could do we would be so abundant our economy would be abundantly thriving and uh and yet you know in order to get there what it takes is getting in the trench and waxing on and waxing off every day into an agricultural system that’s set up as an agrarian system you know tourism thankfully the council was had the courage to take money and apply it to agriculture in this last
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session and i’m not saying i’m against tourism you know it’s interesting when our sun passed the community supported my family and i to go to italy i took my family and we circled the wagons for a month we went to italy and the reason why we went to italy’s because my roots are from sicily and i visited there’s family living in sicily that are first cousins and but i basically wanted to get into an unfamiliar place an unfamiliar language and circle the wagons with my family and be able to just process what we’ve
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just gone through uh and we did that for a month it’s the first time in 27 years we were able to shut the farm down to do that it was just kind of ironic you know but um when i came back i basically was going to drop out of everything that i was doing in the community i didn’t feel like i had the i don’t know the drive i guess it was the wind got knocked out of my sails and um and so i um was in a strategic planning with our organization a week afterwards and i sat around that table
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and realized that this is my tribe you know this is people that value the same values that i have and and they look to me uh in leadership and i look to them in leadership and so i realized that that was important to to continue this work and irene has been so supportive in that respect um the point being though with this is that like i mentioned we haven’t had we don’t have an agricultural system i don’t say that to be against tourism because had we not had tourism in italy i wouldn’t have been able to visit
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my family you know and see the amazing places and experience the amazing things that we experience so but i feel like our tourism here could be built around you know uh this marriage between agriculture and tourism in a way that honors our environment honors our ability to say look guys when you come in here this is what we value if you don’t like it you know if you can’t abide by what we have going on here well then you know that’s your choice you’d go somewhere else too um but you know some people come
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here just for the beaches and for the you know they want to talk they’re talking about putting casinos in and stuff i mean it’s catering to a a a portion of the population that you know doesn’t really i’m not interested in farms and stuff and all that and i i get all that uh but at the same time um you know if we continue to put our focus to agriculture and start creating these um opportunities for the tours that do come in and value it uh it could be a wonderful marriage uh in that respect
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we used to have a tour company come here called destination america they came to our farm uh 35 weeks out of 52 and they spent an hour on our farm 45 people at a time and uh and it was amazing they that we had i had this one lady mail me back an apple book that had all the pictures that she took with the story of what what the they experienced and it was just a beautiful it’s just a beautiful thing uh that people were so affected by you know what we were sharing and i was talking to them about a whole system of
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agriculture so when i say that let me give you an example okay can we go down this road here um uh you take a cow and uh a cow is an amazing animal and when it when it goes and eats grasses you know when the buffalo roamed they ate the perennial the seed tops off the perennial grasses of the plains or the prairies and when after they would eat those seed tops they would then trump down the ligament of the plant and doo-doo and shishi and move on and that’s what built the humic levels and those soils to where roots just kept
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going down deeper deeper and deeper and when you have that kind of a situation you’re having the aquifers being recharged so when the cows eat that that turns that lignin into fats into the cow so when we so it’s interesting too when the cow grabs on those proteinase heads it rips them off well that rips off roots in the ground they slough off and new roots grow and cows have this if you look at a cow this nose is is moist that’s not that’s not sweat that’s an exudate they’re exuding nutrients so when
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they’re eating the grass that that nutrient feeds the grass yeah pretty amazing yeah and and so so the cow is the only animal that can process lignin and turn it into fat and so what i would do when i was telling the folks this story i was saying so you know indigenous cultures what they used to do is they used to harvest the animal they would eat the organ meats first the fatty meats and then they would give the lean meats to their animals and and so uh dr weston a price did did this uh work back in the 20s to where he went
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around the world because he was interested in why people’s teeth were collapsing and jaws were collapsing and he found that what they would they were focused in on these indigenous cultures were fermented foods and that’s how they would eat their animals and so the point being is that you know when the cows then uh go through this and they they mob graze basically and then move on they’re building the soil and and then the cows when you harvest the animal what we do is we then take the bones and we cook
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the bones into bone broth soup well my parents back in the day that’s what that’s what they would make was bone broth soup that’s that was a inexpensive way to feed your family nutrient-rich food with the marrow and the collagen and they were you know people my mom lived to be 93 my dad now 93 you know drinking raw milk i mean they were raised on nutrient density and so you know the uh the bone broth we make this here at home i call it my flu shot you know our kids are craving our family craves it and and
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so the the bone broth um after we make the bone broth we take them bones and we charcoal the bones and then we make them into what was taught to us by master cho korean natural farming calcium phosphate yeah when you when you charcoal the bones and you soak it in brown rice vinegar it extracts the calcium and phosphate from the bones into a liquid to where you use only 20 milliliters per 5 gallons to give your plants and your soil calcium phosphate now calcium phosphate it’s interesting in cultures
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when women get pregnant they take calcium phosphate for the transition period you hear morning sickness well it’s because of calcium phosphate depletion and they take calcium phosphate to seamlessly make that transition from not being pregnant to being pregnant well the same thing goes for plants when plants start to flower in the fruit that’s when you use calcium phosphate so it’s interesting how it mirrors in nature mirrors our our own presence here so the point being around i would tell
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this story to the folks after the uh after the bones were charcoaled and we make it into a cow foss now i give those bones to the worms and the worm bin and so it all goes back to the soil so that whole cycle from when the cow eats the protein asia’s tops off off the grasses to it going back into the soil then is the whole system of agriculture and michael smith’s work in creating biochar is a wonderful thing because it basically speaks to the same thing when you’re putting biochar into the soil especially when you
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inoculate it because it needs to be inoculated before it goes into the soil with microbial activity when it’s inoculated with microbial activity it becomes a condominiums for the microbes we make this beautiful biochar here out of chiavi chiavi is an amazing wood as we all know and and the cells it’s stable in other words you make it into charcoal the cells if you look under a microscope it looks like these you know vessels that microbes and water can inhabit and um and so when you put that in the
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soil then you’re actually creating an environment to help bolster microbial activity and moisture in the soil holding moisture capacity uh moisture capacity in the soil and that in essence helps you rebuild your soils so that’s a beautiful thing so that the whole story of a whole system of agriculture and starting down this path there’s a reason why i wanted to share with you that the tourists loved it they just loved hearing about this because you know they’re seeking rhyme and reason in their own life
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and then being well and being able to enjoy their life and and stay on this plane in a way that they can ex you know have this wonderful experience while we’re here on this planet yeah instead of being in disease process now when you speak about this i think so many people when hearing you i’m sure that they’re brightening up then they’re excited to hear this i just don’t think that uh this whole thing has been as represented as it should be because when you speak about it i
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imagine people rally up behind this who could be what do they say when some if you’re for this how can you how could you be against this what you speak about a lot of it has to do with respect you know having respect for other human beings in a way that that is is like i said earlier you know to collaborate and cooperate with one another and and we don’t slow down as a species enough to do that we really need to slow down and i you know i the the phenomena i think that happens out here in the islands
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is that as i sit here you know calmly talking to you and everything my nervous system is on high alert i mean we’re in the middle of the pacific for god’s sake you know and so if you take all this population that we have here in the islands being on high alert you know it doesn’t lend itself to slowing down enough to just truly communicate that’s where kovit has been a blessing in a lot of respects because it has slowed us down uh and uh it’s almost like nature’s going you know get back in your room you
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still haven’t gotten this straight um and uh you know our chance this is our chance to reset isn’t it yeah we always had the chance i mean you know and now it’s really in our face it’s in our face big time truly and uh and you know uh i yeah i mean i’m um the only thing i know as true is that the body doesn’t lie our physical our bodies don’t lie and the soil doesn’t lie uh and so uh emulating the health and well-being of our bodies in the soil is a direction that i’m committed to and
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a direction i’ve lived you know walk the talk of going into in my life and want to continue to do so i want to be around to see some of these things come to fruition and um and you know it’s exciting to know that right now i’m working with nrcs uh the federal uh is a federal national conservation service here natural resource and conservation service it’s a federal agency well the pacific region head travis thomason who spoke at our convention is very excited about an initiative
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that i’ve been talking to about bringing him forward and has to do with what i have behind me in cover crops uh to create you know in our in our maui county plan it has support the seed industry well let’s create a cover crop seed industry and i feel that would be a step towards developing a agricultural system here in the islands um because we don’t have one like i said earlier and everybody says it’s every everybody out for their own kind of thing you know instead of let’s
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look at agriculture as a complete system that you know and i’ve created that on our farm you know we have uh we have for instance you know when we grow our flats and microgreens when we cut and harvest those flats it gets composted and that compost gets recycled back onto the land to be used again at our farm we then cut and process the greens we put those greens in a walk-in chill we have so we chill them down before delivery but that time and temperature gives us the opportunity to if a crop is
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ready to be harvested and our markets are full and we can back off you know we can put them in there and it slows their growth down to the point where we put them in that chill to you know put our foot on or off the accelerator to be able to you know have a market our food and uh and so having that whole system in place gives us the ability to create a rhythm and that was the whole point of when i was talking about and developing the hub to have the money be able to be used to um uh put back into the system right
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make it a a whole repeatable thing yeah so the farmer’s rhythm would not be interrupted okay so because we as farmers need to have this rhythm of production in a way that it’s not that it’s not interrupted uh in a way that it’s that we’re conscious of this the the the soil’s ability to sustain or that to be resilient enough to grow again you know so to have a system in place to where you know we create that rhythm and that rhythm then affords us the ability to have the plants do their best
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and so that requires a lot of infrastructurals support from the community and a buy-in from the community that they will support local agriculture and that also requires agencies like nrcs and college of tropical agriculture and hawaii department of agriculture in oahu r c and d these are all agencies that i’m working with right now to bring forth this initiative and have it be facilitated so we can bring also farmers that value cover crops to the table and just get at the table sit down and discuss okay so how can we
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um create this cover crop seed initiative whether it be through a cover crop seed industry or programs associated with cover crops that assist farmers to be able to to utilize this medium so then this way we can then start to build this agricultural system that we hear people wanting to you know to bring forward but don’t really have a plan on how to bring it forward and to me that’s that’s the basis of it is in soil health so that there’s the plan right there you guys let’s get our soils healthy
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and you know i spoke with uh shannon mahi pono and he’s all about it he’s all about supporting it he’s very excited about it so yeah yeah so you know there’s uh it’s a thing where um return on investment could be a [ __ ] especially when you’ve invested 262 million dollars in start yeah so you know i i um i only applaud their efforts going forward um people have said to me well you support big ag and it’s like it’s so ridiculous you know these judgments that people have
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before they really understand what’s at play here i recognize legal forms of agriculture here in the united states i recognize that there’s legal forms of agriculture that i don’t subscribe to but yet at the same time that doesn’t mean i support them that just means that i recognize them in a way that they’re legal and you know god’s speed but i just know that you know when i go down a path that doesn’t emulate uh nature’s architecture i’m not going to get the results on a
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consistent basis that i know to be true you know we’ve just been here an hour i could probably stay here longer but uh i hope you’ll come back and as things that you’re doing are important you come to me to share because um i think of you as a voice of sanity in the in the thing and there may be a lot of people on maui that talk about food but somehow i resonate with you that’s why i wanted to hear uh well thank you jason i appreciate that these shows i think of as a library some
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people find them now some will find them later and as a body of work um i’m hoping that we can do exactly what you’re saying maintain this attitude to do what you’re talking i have never uh seen someone as dedicated ever as you well thank you so much i i i’m fortunate to be able like i said to stand on the shoulders of some amazing icons in agriculture and i’ve learned a lot along the way with my own experience too and um you know putting that together and and then like you say you know having a
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voice that is uh you know you just we got to keep the wheels on the bus folks you know we we’re not i’m not here to make anyone or anything wrong it’s really about us working together and collaboration and cooperation you know the neutral zone that’s why we’re here there you go great work jason and thank you so much for you know holding the space and you’re creating a whole system of communication in that respect so i love it thank you vince i’m going to let you get back to your
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uh farm thank you for taking your precious time my loved irene and your family you know you’ve been an inspirational blessing through the challenges that you’ve had and just i don’t know what to say you’re one of my heroes so that’s your heart thank you so much and and please folks you know become a member of hfuuu you don’t have to be a farmer to be a member you can be a gardener or a foodie if you eat food you can be a member hfu but basically that voice at legislature the more members we have the
01:00:12
bigger the voice we have and and then also this wednesday you know come see what we do uh with paul stamets and micah nelson’s gonna do the music so we’re really excited about that duo yeah so this wednesday at 6 30 and you go to our website hfu.org and find out more information on that but it’s a live zoom and you have to get an eventbrite it’s a free event but there’s only as limited amount of people that are going to be able to get on so get to eventbrite and you can get on and and by the time
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people may or may not see this that may be in the past you record it and put stuff up on the website and things like that yes yes we do for our membership yeah yeah well um vince mina you are a wonderful person well bless your heart you too jason i appreciate your your like i said holding the space and it was great great time to spend with you i know there’s a big subject and and uh i haven’t arrived anywhere so i’ll continue to work at it and share whatever i can along the way and here when michael smith is here
01:01:15
there’s no question we’re going to get yeah looking forward to seeing michael probably find some way to get in with like you say with the my pono group in a responsible low-key way so that they can see it you know like you say the big elephant in the room will see whether they lead or follow but you know i i i keep thinking that you’re the influence you’re the i want i give you more credit than you want to take maybe but i give you you’re the presence that can walk uh in many places and bring the
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ideas together i i hope so i hope it’s it’s collaborative and that scene is collaborative in that respect because that’s where i’m coming from and uh so we’ll see how it all moves um yeah we’ll just uh continue to go down the road of work wanting to work together with others and uh yeah thank you for being here and all you out there radio and tv land we are really happy you stuck with us also and we will see you again vincent well aloha man thank you everyone be well stay positive test negative
