Campaign 2022- TNZ#158 Jason Schwartz, County COUNCIL KAHULUI Candidate- HOST: NICK DRANCE, creator of http://TheMauiMiracle.org- 7 4 22
Summary & Timestamped Full Transcript Below…
- [00:00 → 05:39]
Introduction and Context: Neutral Zone and Election Campaign
Jason Schwartz, host of The Neutral Zone, interviews Nick Drance, founder of the Maui Miracle website and a key figure in Maui’s political conversation since 2018. Jason is running for the Kahului council seat in the upcoming election. Nick praises Jason’s candidacy, particularly highlighting his unique qualifications due to his role as a neutral interviewer who has gathered diverse, innovative ideas by speaking with many experts and officials over years. This neutrality and broad knowledge base position Jason well to contribute effectively in a council that requires consensus-building and informed decision-making. - The current incumbent, Tasha Kama, is criticized for voting predominantly with moneyed interests, opposing progressive policies such as the two-year hotel moratorium aimed at limiting visitor accommodations.
- The conversation stresses the importance of a neutral zone where differing opinions can be discussed without confrontation, aiming for solutions benefiting the community.
- Nick and Jason discuss the challenge of understanding why some council members consistently vote against popular progressive measures, noting the lack of transparent, two-way communication between council members and the public due to procedural rules.
- [05:39 → 14:23]
Council Dynamics and Election Landscape - There is strong interest and competition for the Kahului council seat, with seven candidates in the primary. Among them, Jason and Carolee Kamikona stand out as trusted, “salt of the earth” candidates.
- The council members must work collaboratively across committees to share ideas and reach consensus. Jason’s extensive experience interviewing community leaders, scientists, and politicians gives him a significant advantage in bringing innovative, well-informed ideas to the table.
- Nick emphasizes the need for more transparency in council voting, arguing that understanding the rationale behind votes would foster greater public trust and easier decision-making.
- The two-year moratorium on visitor accommodations (hotel moratorium) is a critical issue, with most council members supporting it except a few who vote against it without clear public explanation.
- Jason plans to interview the incumbent, Tasha Kama, to directly ask why she voted against the moratorium, aiming to bring clarity to voters before the election.
- [14:23 → 31:11]
Maui Political History, Key Figures, and Governance Issues - The conversation turns to longtime council members such as Alice Lee and Ricky Hokama, discussing their long tenures and the mystery behind why some continue to run despite term limits or opportunities to pass leadership to new candidates.
- Alice Lee has served multiple terms, with shifts in district representation (upcountry to Wailuku). Yuki Lee Sugimura also holds a seat but votes in ways perceived as aligned with moneyed interests rather than environmental or community welfare.
- The need for new blood and fresh leadership to replace entrenched old guard members who resist progressive growth is emphasized.
- Gabe Johnson and Kelly King are highlighted as exemplary council members who have driven significant progress in affordable housing, climate action, and restructuring council committees into aspirational, issue-focused bodies rather than mirroring county departments.
- Kelly King is running for mayor, bringing a business-savvy, visionary approach rooted in environmental stewardship and community development, backed by her experience running Pacific Biodiesel, an innovative local business.
- The mayoral race is described as highly competitive, with Mike Molina as a reasonable contender and Kelly King as a transformative candidate.
- [31:11 → 41:44]
Challenges of Development, Tourism, and Political Influence - Over-tourism and traffic congestion are major concerns, with many residents opposing further hotel construction and expansion due to infrastructure strain and loss of island character.
- The visitor accommodation moratorium was introduced and passed despite a mayoral veto, aimed at buying time to consider sustainable solutions to over-tourism.
- The conversation critiques candidates aligned with mainland business interests and development agendas, warning that their election could reverse progress and prioritize profit over residents’ welfare and environmental care.
- It is noted that many new candidates are entering politics driven by dissatisfaction with status quo but may lack preparedness or clear platforms, complicating voter decisions in a crowded field.
- The importance of voter education and awareness is stressed to prevent election of candidates who may not uphold community priorities.
- [41:44 → 54:42]
Transparency, Community Engagement, and Innovative Solutions - Nick highlights his Neutral Zone platform as a unique resource for sharing diverse expert perspectives, from environmental technologies to social issues.
- Example innovations discussed include extracting water from the air to reduce dependency on large water diversions and promoting sustainable water use that respects Hawaiian cultural concerns and natural ecosystems.
- The longstanding controversy over East Maui water diversions by large companies (A&B) is noted as a critical environmental and cultural issue influenced by council decisions.
- The interview underscores the need for stewardship and balance between development and preserving Maui’s small-town character and environment.
- Council members like Shane Sinenci (agriculture and sustainability) and Kelly King (climate action and resiliency) are praised for advancing progressive policies and engaging community resources to address climate and economic challenges.
- [54:42 → 55:22]
Closing Remarks and Endorsement - Nick endorses Jason Schwartz as an honest, idea-driven candidate uniquely qualified by his broad knowledge and neutral stance.
- He emphasizes the importance of transparency in government and hopes Jason’s candidacy can bring needed change.
- The conversation ends with mutual respect and optimism for Maui’s political future.
Key Insights and Themes
- Neutrality and Objectivity: Jason Schwartz’s role as a neutral interviewer positions him uniquely to synthesize diverse expert insights and promote balanced, well-informed council decisions.
- Political Landscape: The Kahului council seat is highly contested, with incumbent Tasha Kama criticized for voting against progressive policies; other longtime council members also show entrenched voting patterns aligned with moneyed interests.
- Community Priorities: Preservation of Maui’s small-town character, environmental stewardship, and sustainable economic diversification are core community desires as reflected in extensive public surveys and planning documents (Maui Island Plan, County Plan).
- Transparency Deficit: Lack of transparent communication explaining council members’ voting choices undermines trust and hinders public understanding and engagement.
- Tourism and Development Pressure: Over-tourism, traffic congestion, and unchecked hotel development threaten island infrastructure and quality of life. The visitor accommodation moratorium is a critical tool to manage this challenge.
- Leadership and Innovation: New leaders like Kelly King and Gabe Johnson have catalyzed progressive reforms in affordable housing, climate action, and council structure, demonstrating the impact fresh leadership can have.
- Environmental and Cultural Stewardship: Water resource management and respect for native Hawaiian cultural practices are pivotal issues influenced by council policy decisions.
- Voter Engagement and Education: The crowded candidate field and influence of mainland business interests complicate elections, making voter knowledge and participation crucial for shaping Maui’s future.
Timeline of Key Events and Political Developments
| Timestamp | Event / Topic |
|---|---|
| 2018 | Nick Drance creates Maui Miracle website, sparking political engagement |
| 2017 | Maui Miracle founded with goal to increase voter involvement |
| Current (2024) | Kahului council seat contested by 7 candidates including Jason Schwartz and incumbent Tasha Kama |
| Past years | Kelly King restructures council committees; pushes affordable housing and climate action |
| Last years | Visitor accommodation (hotel) moratorium passed after mayoral veto overridden |
| Ongoing | Longstanding water diversion controversy by A&B and East Maui Water District |
Important Figures and Roles
| Name | Role / Description |
|---|---|
| Jason Schwartz | Host of The Neutral Zone, candidate for Kahului council seat, advocate for neutral, informed governance |
| Nick Drance | Founder of Maui Miracle website, political commentator, supporter of Jason |
| Tasha Kama | Incumbent Kahului council member, criticized for voting with moneyed interests and against progressive measures |
| Carolee Kamikona | Candidate for Kahului, trusted community member alongside Jason |
| Kelly King | Council member, chair of Climate Action & Resiliency Committee, mayoral candidate, business owner of Pacific Biodiesel |
| Gabe Johnson | Council member, chair of Agriculture and Sustainability Committee, progressive leader in affordable housing |
| Shane Sinenci | Council member, chair of Agriculture and Sustainability Committee |
| Alice Lee | Longtime council member, perceived as part of old guard with differing vision |
| Ricky Hokama | Longtime council member, reportedly exceeded term limits, associated with traditional development interests |
| Mike Molina | Current mayor, running for re-election, considered reasonable and pragmatic |
| Yuki Lee Sugimura | Council member with voting record aligned with moneyed interests |
Definitions and Concepts
| Term | Definition / Explanation |
|---|---|
| The Neutral Zone | Jason Schwartz’s platform for neutral, balanced dialogue among diverse Maui community voices and experts |
| Maui Miracle | Website and movement founded by Nick Drantce aiming to empower voters and promote progressive governance |
| Visitor Accommodation Moratorium | A two-year ban on new hotel or visitor accommodation developments to manage over-tourism and infrastructure strain |
| Council Committee Restructuring | Change initiated by Kelly King to focus committees around aspirational goals like environment, housing, economic development instead of mirroring county departments |
| Water Diversion Controversy | Issue involving East Maui water being diverted by corporations, impacting native Hawaiian taro farming and ecosystems |
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Q: Why is the Kahului council seat so contested?
A: The incumbent, Tasha Kama, has opposed many progressive measures, prompting multiple challengers, including Jason Schwartz and Carolee Kamikona, to run for change.
Q: What is the visitor accommodation moratorium?
A: It is a two-year ban on new hotel and transient accommodation development aimed at controlling over-tourism and allowing time to find sustainable solutions.
Q: How does Jason Schwartz’s experience benefit his candidacy?
A: His role as a neutral host interviewing hundreds of experts provides him with broad knowledge and innovative ideas, enabling him to foster consensus and informed decisions on the council.
Q: What are the main concerns about Maui’s development?
A: Over-tourism, traffic congestion, unchecked hotel construction, loss of island character, and environmental degradation are the primary concerns addressed.
Q: How does transparency affect Maui’s governance?
A: Lack of open dialogue and explanations for council votes reduces public trust and understanding, hindering accountability and progress.
Q: What role do longtime council members play?
A: Some longtime members are seen as resistant to change and aligned with business interests, while others, like Kelly King and Gabe Johnson, have driven positive reforms.
Conclusion
This interview provides a comprehensive, nuanced look into Maui’s current political environment, emphasizing the importance of transparency, community engagement, and innovative leadership to address urgent issues such as over-tourism, environmental stewardship, and sustainable development. Jason Schwartz emerges as a candidate uniquely positioned to leverage broad expert knowledge and neutrality to help Maui realize the “Maui Miracle” — a governance model that truly reflects residents’ priorities and preserves the island’s character for future generations.
Transcript
00:00
[Music] aloha i’m jason schwartz normally your host here at the neutral zone but i’m a candidate and i’ve been interviewing other candidates i thought it appropriate to bring in my original sponsor for the show uh nick Drance. nick Drance created a major impact here in 2018 when he created a lot of conversation excitement about his website the maui miracle and um nick thank you for being here with me i would hope that you would treat me like a candidate and ask me questions and uh please as we’re going any positions
00:57
you want to uh offer and establish please do i respect you and that’s the reason i brought you here to give the public a chance to revisit with you and if it’s almost like catching up to date from all that you’ve been okay i’ll put my uh let me interview the candidate hat on uh but uh in any case well jason you know you’re you’re running for the kahului uh council seat and uh i you know i’ve known you for so many years uh you know i know a lot about you and so to you know endorse you as a candidate
01:35
is you know pretty easy uh thank you and that seat actually is is interesting because uh it tasha kama is the incumbent and i fought very hard for uh to get her elected uh among others as part of you know a new beginning on maui which has been fabulously successful but to my surprise and the surprise of many many others it turned out that she pretty much voted in lockstep with what i consider to be money interest the the admin administration developers you know anything that was uh you know progressive related to you know uh the
02:19
future of maui and bold innovative ideas that help the island and people she she and joined the other two and just you know voted against those things including the two-year hotel moratorium which is now expanded so that’s the state that you are running that’s why i have five others challenging also it’s a seven person primary so but that’s a lot to say yeah a lot of interest in hersey yeah and the only you know the only other person i like you the most but the only other my second best is carolee
03:01
kamikona uh because you’re both salt of the earth uh i completely trust you know both of you uh you know what the the other the difference uh is that because you are uh you have the akaku program the neutral zone and this is something that fascinates me and i think makes you you know uniquely qualified for you know this council seat is that over these many years you have interviewed uh you know the mayor council members uh dignitaries uh scientists uh hundreds of people over the years and so you have gotten so
03:43
much information and a lot of it innovative uh innovative stuff this is one of the things that makes you uniquely qualified for that position because unlike anyone else you can contribute ideas that you’ve heard from the best of the best and not and because this is the clincher because you’re neutral and you’re objective you’re not particularly pushing an agenda you’re getting along with people uh and and putting forth ideas that everybody should consider because who can make a good decision if they
04:19
don’t have all of the information so your uh neutral zone which you’ve dedicated many years to uh gives you a tremendous edge in your candidacy well thank you i i think that the idea of a neutral zone it is good for help for everything but imagine in sales situation where you’re if someone’s there their job is to listen to you but say no your job is to get them to say yes so one of the early things i learned in sales was to create a rapport and one way is not be confronting someone
05:01
slide around and be on their side of the table so a round table a neutral zone where people come in and talk about things where we leave our swords at the door we’re not interested in slicing each other and discovering our differences as much as we’re looking to see what we can agree on what we do agree on and then those differences can either fall away or again now both parties all parties are interested in finding a solution to serve everyone sounds a little um like but i think it really has shown
05:39
over the years to be a really effective tool well this is a sore point with me because there are three council members that constantly without balance uh they vote against anything progressive anything related to you know serious environmental stuff you know the ocean even some of the innovative you know job programs and and and other things it so consistently vote along with what i consider money interests at the administration and so forth there’s no balance there but other than other than this just to
06:18
follow up on the comment that you made uh the the the council being comprised of members from all the districts and they all have to work together as you say uh and come to a consensus and share their various ideas you know some people are chair of this committee in that committee but generally most committee members council members are on most committees so they all have to share ideas and this is where this is a bright spot for you because you have all those ideas you’ve gained so many ideas and you uh sit at the same
06:55
side of the table with everybody to to put forth those ideas in a neutral way and this is the way the council is supposed to work together uh what i haven’t seen of the of those positions you’re talking about that are voted against i think that the transparency of government demands someone to explain their positions more so that we can understand why they would vote i mean we all come to understand why would someone be consistently voting against these issues that we hold and embrace as
07:32
really important that i think is what’s needed because then the voting gets easier you’re you’re absolutely right and i think it’s strange that the system doesn’t allow communication public communication to the council members i’ve testified at like numerous council meetings and you can hear the public say things to the council but you never have a conversation and you’re according to you know protocol robert’s rules of order they’re not allowed to have a conversation with you unless they want
08:08
to clarify something so this issue about and i’m fascinated by it i’d be i’d be very curious to ask those three people why are you voting against the uh uh visitor accommodation moratorium that’s so-called hotel moratorium for the two years if everybody else is voting for it and it’s popular among residents why are you voting against it wouldn’t that be a fair thing to understand and hear it would and uh but we’re not allowed to according to protocol so that’s why you
08:42
know during election time uh you know that’s a great time for the public to actually ask them but anyway actually just so you should know i only have one more interview in my interview series and that is with the incumbent which is a very different thing you’ll see done because i’m going to ask those kind of questions exactly why did you vote against it and we’ll see if the answer satisfies anybody it can’t if it still gave you the wrong answer if you’re voting against the moratorium when you
09:19
know we’re up to here with things there’s got to be some reason i don’t know how it’s going to satisfy anyone well that’s a fascinating scenario because you’re interviewing an opponent yeah but on the other hand you’re the neutral zone so you’re just simply objectively asking the question but not with not with an agenda not with an attack basically really asking why would you vote against something like that i mean and they’ll say well there was some detail i asked her once before
09:53
privately and she said there were some details in it that i didn’t really feel comfortable with what details that’s right it’s like and the public is squawking you got to tell somebody what those details were anyway yeah and i i know more about uh you know that situation but uh i can tell you that tasha i love tasha combat i i she’s like a wonderful wonderful person very much i don’t like the way she votes i don’t like her politics you know none of that and i don’t think she’s right for that
10:32
job but as a person and a human being she’s fabulous and that’s why i supported her candidacy so strong and i too and um you may not recall but i moved aside from running then to clear the path and not make a muddy kind of situation it’s so muddy now with six and seven people can you imagine all of us before the primary trying to figure out how to get our message out somehow to the public how are they going to vote when they don’t know who these people are it’s it’s a stranger
11:05
well it’s tough you know it’s tough on maui and this has been one of the challenges with the maui miracle.org uh where you know my faith level uh kind of comes and goes uh you know in 2017 when it it was founded if the idea objective was to get a greater number of voters involved so that they felt empowered to you know make the future the way they envisioned it because i think a lot of people feel disenfranchised and they don’t realize that the miracle is all you have to do is show up and vote
11:45
in great numbers and generally i think residents want uh you know the health of the island and their own welfare to come ahead of uh you know looking at maui as the goose with the golden egg uh and uh you know for deve and development and a place to build luxury homes for people that don’t live here while we have you know a housing problem so you know these these issues have been long-standing and this cycle of elections that’s two years keeps a pattern of them deferring for many years important
12:29
issues because in a blink they were out of that job they weren’t given enough runway to take off with some of these ideas is what they’ll tell you but they’ve left all those problems for now so thank goodness we’re still on it and without that like you say without the hope and the feeling like there’s something good people won’t go and vote they don’t want to feel like they’re they think they have no way that they can make a difference but it is huge if they step up and vote
13:05
that’s what turns the boat well and what what i have to step back and look at as founder of the maui miracle is actually we are so close to the maui miracle being a reality uh i mean i suppose it was always an ideal pie in the sky you know i hope this happens i want it to happen but when i step back and realize so much progress has been made since that 2018 election uh it’s it’s astounding and those uh uh council members who are uh you know responsible for that uh well they’ve done a great job when we
13:45
think about kelly king and shane sinensi and gabe johnson and tamara paulton and you know we can keep going but like you say we run into it it’s not even like a voting block but it sure appears that way and you wonder why are these people voting against things that are moving so swiftly because they’re the right things many see and then they’re not well that’s why and that’s why i say this this election we’re this close to the maui miracle coming almost to complete fruition which is like an
14:23
unimaginable thing where you know the voters the great number of residents actually see the county uh establishing priorities that match theirs which you know the county uh maui island plan and maui county plan have a mission statement and core principles which came from one of the largest uh you know sort of like research for lack of a better term survey of 1800 people on the island years ago and that’s where the policy of the county came from embodied in these poor principles and mission statement
15:01
and by and large residents wanted preservation of the small town atmosphere uh the integrity of the island it’s the character and nature of the island i mean that’s what it’s documented that’s what they want and like well why would a long-term resident want a bunch more hotels a bunch more traffic a bunch more shopping centers you know and a bunch more luxury home for people that live here what’s in it for them why would they want that well they don’t so this election is critical because
15:34
there’s three or four seats yours included that’s pivotal so let me ask a question that you you may wonder why is alice lee after being on council so long still running why isn’t she operating as a magnanimous citizen and coming down and testifying and having the wisdom of her experience but passing the baton to someone else why is ricky hokama after running and running and running deciding to run again when the man in his seat gabe johnson has been such a fantastic leader in being able to create this dream that we
16:17
talk about that’s the questions today well there are a lot of mysteries with maui county government uh the nepali debacle is one of them it’s so it’s so unimaginable that things happen with impunity but as far as ricky goes uh this was reported in uh you know the maui news and maui now uh that he has already exceeded his term limits you know the council added this to the charter that they want term limits and he’s already exceeded his so i don’t even understand how he can run
16:53
were you saying that alice lee didn’t reach her term then did she when i was starting the maui arts and music association way back in the early 90s alice lee was on council that’s 30 years ago do you want to talk about how many terms alice lee has been on maybe four here and three there maybe that earned five in a row but she took a break came back she’s been a constant really well but then one day there was dane connay who ran for mayor right and then when dane kane ran for mayor mike victorino slipped into the wailiku
17:31
seat and then from the wailuku seat he went toward where he is now oh so that’s how that happened that’s how that happened you see and and alice lee used to be up country now she’s in wailuku well you know that’s an interesting thing because the representative and up country uh which is ukulele sugimura and again she her voting position is completely opposite of what i think is healthy for the island and residents welfare and so forth i mean to me she votes with money interest which the administration does
18:08
so that’s that and it’s interesting that those two switched i had no knowledge of that well i think she was a makawa paella high coup but up country but but also um it used to be that that seat you’re talking about yuki was charmaine tavares for a while and you’re right though um but i just think that people that are on the council for a long time still have all their great wisdom they could be diplomats and statesmen instead they want to stay elected representatives and stop the growth of
18:44
new gro new strong growth which i don’t understand it’s like keeping an old forest knowing that they’re they’re blocking the shade of new things to growth it’s like the old thing about how do you to make this thing move forward you have to put some new blood in and the new blood has proven themselves that they’ve shown it like i’m i’m talking specifically about gabe johnson has been an extraordinary powerful positive job care of the uh what is it it’s not housing and human
19:18
concerns uh i forget the name of the committee uh well i think affordable housing you may have affordable housing and uh interestingly enough uh in the last since the last few years uh we have made significant progress towards affordable housing uh to the point where i’m astounded in kelly king just to mention you talking about uh people who are you know dedicated moving on kelly came responsible for a tremendous amount of affordable housing initiatives in uh south kihei but when you were mentioning
19:54
uh alice lee and these other people uh and and by the way alice lee is an honest person we just like yuki we just disagree but i don’t think that she’s dishonest at all she just has a different you know vision for maui but kelly king uh you know she really revolutionized the council structure by completely changing the committee structure you know the committees used to be they mirrored county departments and then the councils their activities were you know pretty tame without going into a big detail so kelly
20:31
changed the uh committee structure so that they were aspirational and i said they’re inspirational but she’s the one that said okay let’s focus on a committee for the environment one for affordable housing you know one for economic development one for culture however i don’t have the committees in front of you right she broke it into uh functional committees based on important issues in the community and not an old structure that was locked into keeping the old way i mean that’s what we keep seeing that the old
21:07
way likes to stay the old way but we’re kelly king and breaking through the the aspirational goals of the council to aspire to greatness along the lines of something important to the community is is such a much better way to go i’ve assumed that that she’s running for um mayor this has become a very interesting and highly contested mayoral race i’m i’m fascinated by it because you know mike molina doesn’t always you know i don’t always see eye to eye with him but i think he’s level-headed
21:46
and he’s reasonable and he has his voting record i think has moved a little bit more towards you know things that relate to the health of the island and maybe against uh things that are not you know for money interests and mainland things and stuff like that so you know i don’t think he would be a bad mayor but kelly has a track record uh in the council of phenomenal success in major major things and imagine her being mayor uh well again and a lot of people have imagined you can imagine
22:22
when i did an interview with her she said uh jason there’s people that are coming at me and they want me to run for mayor if they can get that kind of enthusiasm that i need obviously she is motivating people in our community to be their greatest selves and to continue that kind of effort uh with her being mayor who knows what good things you know you know she she she is that way but you know she was running for uh state government and i think it was tina wildberger’s uh state house representative position
22:58
and as i understand it uh a group of uh people came to her at the last minute they should have done it maybe earlier but and they absolutely insisted that she run for mayor and you know she was going to run for state house position and their arguments were so compelling she said okay i’m going to do it and i hope you know i hope she wins because if she does um whoa that’s like uh you know being being a business owner not only is she knowledgeable about the this is now um campaigning for her
23:36
that’s right not only is she proactive with you know climate change protecting the island the environment you know really forward-looking which is something that you and i talked about let’s get back to that not only that but she is a business owner so it’s not all like pie in the sky and stuff she and her husband have had pacific biodiesel for years and that’s an award-winning company that has done amazing innovative things so you know she’s you know she’s not only visionary
24:41
action i’ve spoken to people that have been on my show that talked about taking our green waste and turning it into power i’m using broad example or a couple of different ways to create water take water from the air and purify purified so that we don’t have to distribute water don’t have to distribute power change the idea of what can happen in open space we don’t we can now use different areas that were never possible to be considered for living and leaving open space things like growing you know
25:20
etc um there are our world now with all its technological advances mean that many of our people instead of having to be get into a local work environment can work more globally so take the burden off to having to keep building out this infrastructure to create jobs here to be able to diversify our economy to be able to let our people enjoy a greater pool with their work as we give them more skills through again helping the education get better i think that that’s important that’s important the
26:02
maui economic board their sole purpose is to help provide uh you know opportunities for economic development and this is one of the interesting things that segways into you know people’s positions on the on the council because like for example uh more hotels okay you know i think we need diversity look what happened you know during covet these people can so many moved off the island they can’t even you know afford to live here so a bunch of new hotels creating you know not high-paying jobs
26:42
you know with a future i don’t know that that’s the long-term sustainable future for maui well and what you know when i think of hotels i all i immediately focus on is the west side traffic craziness to me you know where would we put these hotels we’re going to stack them are we going to create a multi-level highway to try to deal with it and it’s crazy it’s like there’s nobody can deny over tourism we have too many bodies we don’t have enough we don’t have enough infrastructure nor
27:20
island space to to build why would we think to build more well well uh you’re right when this uh when kelly king introduced this uh moratorium and its visitor and transient uh accommodations is technically what it is people call the hotel more more trying but it’s visitor and transient accommodations when that uh was being debated both in committee and in the council uh a number of people said look this business about over tourism it’s something that you know uh uh university of hawaii has talked about
27:59
the u.n you know even the maui tourism uh bureau of all people um it’s so well documented and there’s additional uh academic studies about this where it’s not just some like oh i’m a liberal i’m like you know pie in the sky i want this to happen no it’s coming from the highest levels of government and academia uh about this thing that you’re talking about over tourism and uh uh it’s so s you know it’s documented it’s not just like some oh i just feel like
28:33
this for that so when kelly introduced that and then you know kayani did it in a different way and it ended up passing the mayor vetoed it and then they vetoed his veto and so now it’s it’s you know now it’s a reality but you’re talking about the traffic and solutions the original purpose of it was just to buy us time to find solutions yeah and and uh which i mean you know to me i think well the solution is for building you know new hotels and focus on you know diversified economy you know and
29:06
stuff like that but you talk about traffic on the west side i live on the south side it’s like traffic jams down south key hey road as far as the eye can see uh i see people uh standing in line for kihei cafe and there must be like a hundred people all the way around and why why do they wait in line the traffic i mean it goes from uh uh from the park all the way back to cam three from cam one to cam three and then pi ilani highway of course now with this roundabout and all this other stuff there are traffic jams from people
29:49
leaving their hotel jobs in uh wailea uh going towards other places you know up country wherever and peolani looks like the mainland already so you know when i talk to visionary people like you who are not necessarily tied into mainland business model you know and all of that more oriented towards you know stewardship over the island and residents you know i think you’re the guy that would really help the health of the island i think so also and i think you know a lot of the things that i’ve
30:31
seen happen have happened because people were sitting on their heels and didn’t think it was important for them to be involved so right now this is critical we’re at a really critical place we’ve come so far toward it but we could easily fall backward just by a regime that holds that status quo position right now or at the end of a moratorium period aren’t going to hold to what is important before they lift it and suddenly allow for another window of more tourism growth it’s got to be real
31:11
continuity here very important time well you know you’re right i don’t know uh a lot of the people that are running i know uh i know the incumbents of course and i know you know those people that i uh like yourself or carol lee people that i really believe in but from what i can tell without doing a whole like research project i think a great number of the people that are running for these seats are running because big business mainland business interests you know a mainland business model is
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something that they believe in and they want to get on the council in order to promote that well i don’t know i think a lot of this climate that’s happened nationally and the thing with the vaccination and no vaccination has emboldened is that the right word a lot of people that maybe never even wanted or thought they could be or are potentially good candidates for politics are jumping in and they because they don’t like the the status quo and they’re not being careful on what they’re jumping in
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they’re just jumping in and there are so many people running now and there’s really hardly any way to know who they are before the the primary election yeah that’s that’s true well you know uh uh yuki lee sugimura is up for re-election alice lee i think as you mentioned uh ricky is you know from the old guard uh wanting to uh replace gabe uh and then of course you know the kahului see uh with you and these really these races are the most important because they will uh determine whether uh developers
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and marco alpa haiku i mean mike molina leaving that seat create a possibility of a of a very conservative very strong development advocate suddenly getting in because his name is known and then no one knows anybody else it’s scary what lack of of appropriate media coverage or can do by omission i think that’s the part some of these names of people that have been around have been around a long time different than me they’ve been in very conservative supportive positions and around here if you don’t know the name
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you’re looking for a name you know or something way to know who these people are well what do you mean by conservative because conservatives isn’t you know necessarily bad i mean i i feel like i have a balanced point of view you know i’m neither conservative nor liberal but you’re are you associating questions i’m bringing it to uh i just don’t name names here but development someone that is pro development more development of the tourism industry a very strong uh supporter and
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support staff for others that were very strong in development of the tourist industry that’s like it’s like going from a government position rick perry is a good example going from a government position or in his case actually private industry in the energy sector with oil and then becoming secretary of uh energy uh in in the government and and then you know and now what you’re talking about is a reverse thing where you know you have business executives from either real estate or developers or something like
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that and then they get on the council and you know what how they’re going to vote uh they’re going and every opportunity just like those three that i mentioned they’re going to promote you know additional development and as you say this is piv this is a pivotal time right we have to basically it’s it’s like holding back the dam uh holding back the water long enough to build a strong a wall to block that um i think it’s very critical that up country seat in makwa haiku to me has no
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identifiable leader except the names we know and that concerns me but um there’s some interesting and young creative people that are running in that seat again i am you know i i imagine that once you sit in that seat all what all the things you thought about it change a little bit because you’re in this well that’s what happened to your opponent yeah as i say uh i worked very hard for her and i like her very much privately we share very similar uh family values spiritual values uh you know we
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i i call her my sister we’re you know we like each other very much but uh when she was campaigning she appeared to have a certain position and then once she took office uh all her she completely changed and she gave an explanation for that which you know okay uh but you know we are so close to the maui miracle where residents and voters really are in charge of what happens on the island instead of you know mainland business interests and developers we’re so close to residents being the ones
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that call the shots uh we’re this close to it and if kelly king became mayor you know she’s not beholden to anybody and she as a business owner she i mean this current council these people are so-called liberals our budget the county budget is balanced it’s healthy the tax code was revamped you know in favor of residents uh to put a proper burden on uh you know hotels and so forth but not unreasonably so uh and so fiscally these guys that people refer to as liberals have done a spectacular job
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but she’s she’s voted against a lot of those things uh it you know it’s very strange but the maui miracle includes fiscal responsibility and uh forward thinking which you were talking about visionary forward thinking uh that relates to the stewardship of the island and residents i was thinking about it when someone asked about what do you do diversify things and i thought about tax incentives when you create tax incentives you got to find where are you going to get those dollars that you need to run things from
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somewhere else so that is quite a game trying to be fiscally responsible and yet and not pull money out of the game because you need that money so how do you create an incentive without that’s an interesting thing well like you sure you shared those that have will have to bear the burden more that i think is the way to do it it’s not very popular with those that have more that feel they’re going to be bearing an unfair burden but i think we’ve you know you and i have a very popular opinion it’s called you
38:45
have to take care of her we’re all in this together on an island yeah well you’re you know you’re absolutely right about that uh but a lot of a lot of the people that you’re talking about have second and third homes here uh and whether they’re you know some of them are residents some of them are not uh but uh you know if somebody is who is a resident is wealthy i don’t think necessary or a business owner i don’t think necessarily no they have anything to worry about and
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certainly uh you know county government and the admin policy has done more to hurt everybody but business people so you know i think uh you know something that’s fair and equitable balance that’s the most important thing that i care about is balance and that’s the issue that i have with those three council members therefore sometimes uh because they just always vote with the same pro development pro uh mainland business model without exception almost so and you’ve heard now people complaining
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that are in businesses that the mayor shut them down so they’ve been upset that the mayor has shut down the business so it’s a very funny and fickle public you don’t really know in a given moment what they’re going to think is their priority well you know you have to remain neutral i don’t and uh in in this last well i mean it’s your philosophy you know well the meaning i’m not going to hear stabbing like i don’t want to name it but yeah i try to be a little bit off the pedal well you’re out
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there giving it to him good well you have to work with everybody and you choose to and that’s a you know very you’re very you know diplomatic uh but speaking of the mayor uh i looked at where his campaign donations were coming from and a tremendous amount of dollars came from honolulu and the mainland and and i was like horrified it’s like well you know who are you uh uh who are you who’s your allegiance to you know honolulu and the mainland that’s business interest and that’s why
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you know county administration uh the county policy is largely uh oriented towards their benefit rather than residents and you know stewardship over the island and they’re not the only one that has big money coming from the mainlander honolulu not only is it our present mayor but a couple of the candidates running oh glenn you you wonder on the way in where who are they beholding to yeah it’s that’s uh a really depressing thing is that if voters are unaware uh i i want people to vote and i on the
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marry miracle website there’s a section about government that says how’s the structure of our government who’s in there now what are the committees you know how all all kinds of information how to testify council here absolutely uh but that’s to make people knowledgeable but if people vote for people who just have more signs or more money you know or something like that if they don’t vote wisely uh then you know then we shoot ourselves in the foot but in any case uh just to get back to you know
42:16
your uh attributes your uh the thing that you have that nobody else has is that you’ve listened to hundreds of experts in like such diversified like give me some examples you you’ve it’s been like from one extreme to the other of the spectrum of experts from different areas you know the way i’ve gotten guests from my show are based on things that interest me that would solve problems with things that have come to me over time exactly they came to me many of them come toward me because they see i have that open
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attitude i like to talk about the water one there are so many solutions for the water that i haven’t heard one that i didn’t hear at all which has nothing to do with new technology the largest lens like an underwater lake of fresh water under haiku larger than the water in oahu why i didn’t know that well because i was gonna buy a property out there some years ago we found that there was a lake a freshwater lake down there and it came to be understood that people whoever is in the water area knew about
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it but they didn’t want to talk about it because they were afraid it would allow rampant development to happen and point that they have enough water to do that development so i appreciate but that kind of water supply might if added into the thing into the system could provide water for all the food that gets created on this island allow the natural flow of water to then pull from a source like i say when i talk about enough water larger than oahu larger than the the fresh water supply of a
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place with 10 times the population etc this might be a time to really take a look at all our resources well this is where stewardship over the environment has a real you know direct impact uh you know over you know what go what goes on the uh east maui what’s the name of east maui water district it’s like it’s yeah and then there’s east maui and that has a long history with a and b and then uh taking of the water and moving that water all that and redistributing it and of course the hawaiians are never happy
44:53
about the fact that this they are part of the aina and their culture their uh taro fields all that stuff stream diversions that that interrupt you know their natural habitat and things like that like they they have a tough battle to fight and so what people don’t realize is that what happens to that big huge water supply is largely determined about what is said in the council so you know this but we also know that if we take and reclaim all the water and control the water and let all the food
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die that’s not going to be so clever either but we have solutions right now and i talk about water from air people think that’s like some new thing condensation of water out of the air is not something new but the fact that they can do it efficiently now and bring it down to in a modular size to be able to handle a single residence or a group of residents yeah is that allows us to leave open space open space it leads us to use water wherever else it’s being used and not have to create these giant siphons the more the
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more development the more water is being needed well that’s another reason for uh development we we have drought years sometimes sometimes not talking about you know the way the water is and i don’t want to dwell on it too much yeah but you know because the island is only 742 square miles right and it it’s not miami beach and it’s not orange county and that’s not what maui’s a relatively sacred uh island a lot people come from around the world to pray because they feel that maui is sacred as
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i do uh so it’s not miami beach and it’s not meant to build more shopping centers hotels luxury homes for people that don’t live here and that’s why this election is so important because we have some you know progress as you mentioned uh uh kayani uh rollins fernandez tamara uh gabe johnson uh just to name a few uh shane sinancy of course and he’s in charge he’s chair of the uh agriculture and what is sustainability committee i believe to me they that’s a blurry line between
47:23
economic climate change and sustainability to me they get they’re very overlapping well he’s done great things as chair of that committee and actually kelly king has done spectacular things as chair of the climate action uh and resiliency environment committee you know care for short they all have acronyms and as chair of that committee she’s done unbelievable things and and like you uh she has hosted people right on on panels uh uh too so she has lots of potential resources to solve problems that aren’t
48:06
being looked at yeah just like you and she’s open uh to sharing all of these ideas um you know so these these are good things well jason i wish you the best thank you in this endeavor uh i’ve i’ve known you for a long time i know that you’re an honest man uh full of ideas and i i think as you and maya my ideas i’m cutting you off only in that i am not the ideas i am just a vessel i mean i have original ideas but a lot of what i think is because i’ve been exposed to so many
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things that don’t seem like they fit together but we know they all fit together they’re all important well in one way or the other but you can help others to make balanced decisions and you yourself can make a balanced decision and it’s all you know based on uh you know good information so uh in any case i think that your desire for public service course you uh have you know you have previously run for office uh you were worked with uh maui electric on oh yeah well you know when i got here in
49:20
the late 80s with a high-tech equipment to make a co-generation solar system i started digging in and looking and found in fact i came here because utility rates were high and when i went and talked to the utilities they were just coming upon a an advisory board to plan the 20-year energy future of the island and i’ve been involved in solar energy on the mainland and this group this integrated resource planning advisory board were shown in detail many of the technologies that we now looking at here
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today 20 years ago 30 years ago you mentioned solar and now solar and wind provide a great deal of you know energy for us and i think you know i think we are paying like it’s probably about 38 cents a kilowatt now and on the mainland different places it’s 13 cents so i mean obviously if you’re put if you were pushing solar 20 or 30 years ago you know that was so innovative but well and what happened is as you can imagine the status quo the powers that be that were making money in a usual and
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regular way didn’t want to hear of it you know they didn’t want to hear of it i don’t like to be negative so i won’t go into detail but it’s not an unusual scenario but it’s even more critical on an island i mean it should have been embraced 20 and 30 years ago i mean don’t you find it funny that around the world when they look about which county in the united states is the most significantly advanced it’s maui county about solar although no one will point and say it’s
51:02
jason schwartz i’ve been talking about it a long time you know you’ve uh you’ve helped that but in any case you’re you’ve taken years of advocacy by getting the word out and you know giving giving people a platform to share their ideas your advocacy now uh as a public servant now you’ve switched and you’re running for this council seat because i think you feel like you could do more good i was just gonna say i talking is great but when you see the people you’re talking to aren’t taking these ideas
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to the logical next steps i feel that it’s time for me to move into a seat at the table to to move things forward directly and i i i agree with you especially in the kahului seat well it’ll make a big difference in that balance you talk about that is a very very important race so uh jason i wish you well and i i hope that uh you are able to get your message out to more people so that they know what you stand for and what you’re capable of doing uh and the good contributions that you can
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make not only for your own district but for all districts so i wish you the best thank you you have been you’re a great you’re a great host and a questioner i don’t know if i gave you as many uh area detailed answers as you need but i like to think that the most important thing is how someone thinks i think that transparency piece is something’s got to be changed there if we don’t know why someone votes the work they do then things can stay the way they are and we’re never gonna be putting their
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feet to the fire to clear the air and see what is it that’s holding important aggressive things back interesting that you mentioned that and i’m trying to help you us sign off but mike molina who’s running for mayor and i do like him he’s a reasonable man uh he’s chair of the government ethics and transparency committee get g-e-t government and it’s interesting that this subject which we’re talking about transparency which is so important to everybody this thing about two-way conversation
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between the public in public uh that has never come up on the other hand i will say that this nepali debacle way way way way way months late almost a year but there’s finally a little bit of visibility official visibility through his uh through his committee uh so you know i you know those those are good things but and and i like to take my hat off to private citizens like a sam small who’s been a champion and staying on these issues when they’re not popular to have people keep talking about well
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that’s a whole other subject about uh people who have been advocates for you know the stewardship on maui for up to 30 years devoting their life but that’s another subject and when getting when on council the ability to pull from those resources that’s a really important important piece that i i don’t think can be put aside the ability to talk to and reach into the already rich maui community to find those answers that are already here contributions that need a little help in what they’re doing to
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make what they’re doing more broad right well you’re just the man you’re just the man for the job and i uh i i believe in you and i believe in your ability to really make a difference so like i say i wish you the best of luck and i hope you can get your message out to a great number of people well thank you nick and thank you for being our guest co-host i think that um we may have a spin-off and call it the uh neutral zone you know a nick a nick of time oh that’s a whole other story all right all right anyway i wish
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you aloha thank you my brother mahalo [Music] you
