Jesse Christian – White Buffalo Woman

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Jason Schwartz interviews JESSE CHRISTIAN Holy Vortex Foundation, March 2013 on Maui, Hawaii.. Jesse’s life has been a fascinating and strengthening journey. Our introduction to a most wonderful lady. Aloha.

Summary & Timestamped Transcript Below…

1. 1. 1. Introduction and Background of Hosts and Guest

• The Maui Arts and Music Association (MAMA) is part of the Dream Makers Foundation, focusing on community, family integration, and fostering dreams through collaboration rather than imposition.
• The host introduces Jesse Christian, a guest with a 20-year history of involvement in television shows about self-sustainability, alternative paradigms, and balanced living.
• Jesse was born in Salt Lake City, Utah, into a deeply rooted Latter-day Saints (LDS) or Mormon family, being a fourth or fifth generation member on all sides. This upbringing strongly influenced her early life and belief system.
• [02:18 → 04:57]
  • • Mormonism Overview and Early Life
• Mormonism (LDS) was explained as distinct from mainstream Christianity, emphasizing Joseph Smith as a prophet who restored the “primitive church.”
• The Book of Mormon was described as a history of Native Americans, translated from golden plates revealed by the angel Moroni.
• Joseph Smith’s revelation declared all existing Christian denominations apostate, leading to the establishment of the LDS church as the “true” restored church.
• Jesse shares this religious context as her foundation, highlighting both virtues embraced and questions raised during her youth.
• [04:57 → 07:41]
  • • Departure from Mormonism and Move to Eastern Spirituality
• In high school, Jesse began questioning Mormonism’s validity and eventually left the church.
• She explored Eastern spiritual practices including yoga and Transcendental Meditation ™, which helped her develop a personal connection with the divine beyond institutional religion.
• At 21, pregnant with her first daughter, she was navigating this spiritual transition.
• She was married in a polygamous marriage within the Fundamentalist LDS (FLDS) community, which upheld Joseph Smith’s early teachings on plural marriage as a requirement for the highest celestial kingdom.
• The host and Jesse discuss the controversial theological premise that more wives equate to a greater place in heaven, with Jesse noting that modern mainstream LDS churches reject such doctrines.
• [07:41 → 11:48]
  • • Life in Polygamous Communities and Off-Grid Living
• Jesse’s husband had multiple wives; she was a “sister wife” and part of a polygamous community in Montana, living off-grid on 640 acres called Higher Ground near the National Forest.
• Their lifestyle was rustic—no electricity or telephone, but with a water system, goats, chickens, and gardening for sustainability.
• Jesse had seven children by age 35, homeschooling them due to distrust of public education and healthcare, which they perceived as corrupted by large corporations.
• Prior to Montana, Jesse lived in Pinedale, Montana, a community of 200–300 people modeled around shared schooling, gardening, and community living.
• She lost a son due to complications from a hospital-acquired infection, not whooping cough itself.
• Jesse’s role included teaching yoga, PE, and art at a gathered school in Pinedale.

Community	Location	Population	Features
Higher Ground	Montana	Not specified	Off-grid, rustic, multiple wives
Pinedale Community	Montana	200–300	Gathered school, garden, community

[11:48 → 16:08]

• • • Polyamory, Polygamy, and Legal Battles
• Jesse describes her shift from polygamy to polyamory/polyfidelity, advocating egalitarian relationships where both men and women have multiple partners but remain faithful within those relationships.
• The host references popular media like Big Love and Sister Wives reality TV shows reflecting similar lifestyles.
• Jesse’s sister wife’s brother, Cody Brown, is noted as fighting a legal battle against Utah’s bigamy laws, defending the right to multiple partners.
• Jesse supports pro-choice in relationship structures among consenting adults and challenges societal rules that confine relationships into rigid models, highlighting the imbalance caused by Western civilization’s focus on monogamy.
• [16:08 → 18:41]
  • • Community and Spirituality Perspectives
• Jesse emphasizes the importance of community (or communion) as essential for unity and healing, extending beyond intimate relationships to all levels of human connection.
• She challenges the Western focus on dyadic relationships (self + partner) to include larger family and community dynamics.
• The conversation touches on spiritual concepts like chakras, tantra, and kundalini awakening as tools to deepen self-awareness and communal harmony.
• [18:41 → 23:21]
  • • Books and Personal Journey
• Jesse authored several books including:
  • Heart Song: A semi-fictional exploration of egalitarian polyamory and community living.
  • Heart Wide Open: A personal memoir about leaving polygamy to live in a polyamorous community, addressing jealousy, control, and healing.
  • Becoming One: The Journey Toward God: Focuses on spiritual awakening, exploring universal religious truths and kundalini activation.
  • White Buffalo Woman: Written during incarceration, reflecting on feminine spiritual awakening and connection to Jesus Christ’s experiences.
• Jesse and the host recount her experiences as a lead Watsu (water shiatsu) therapist at the Bellagio in Las Vegas and her training at Harbin Hot Springs, where she integrated tantra, shamanism, and bodywork.
• Watsu is described as a therapeutic aquatic dance in warm water, facilitating deep physical and spiritual release, and can support kundalini awakening.

Book Title	Theme/Focus	Notes
Heart Song	Egalitarian polyamory, community life	Semi-fictional, visionary
Heart Wide Open	Leaving polygamy, personal healing	Memoir, spiritual & relational growth
Becoming One	Spiritual awakening, unity of religions	Kundalini, comparative spirituality
White Buffalo Woman	Feminine spirituality, jail experiences	Written in jail, connection to Christ

[23:21 → 31:32]

• • • Kundalini, Chakras, and Spiritual Practices
• Jesse explains kundalini as a flow of energy along the spine activating the seven chakras, which are energy centers spanning from base (root) to crown (top of head).
• Kundalini awakening is described as a spiral energy that increases in speed and intensity, bringing heightened awareness and spiritual connection.
• She clarifies misconceptions equating kundalini solely with sexuality, emphasizing it as an awakening to life’s possibilities.
• The host shares her personal experience feeling this energetic spiral during aquatic dance (Watsu).
• Yoga, meditation (including TM), and therapeutic bodywork are identified as preparatory practices for kundalini activation.

Term	Definition
Kundalini	Dormant energy at base of spine; awakening leads to chakra activation and spiritual growth
Chakras	Seven main energy centers in the body, from base to crown; each associated with colors & life aspects
Watsu	Water-based shiatsu therapy aiding in relaxation, release, and energy flow

[31:32 → 36:35]

• • • Shamanic Experiences and Native American Influence
• Jesse recounts meeting Patrick Corker (Speaking Wind), a Native American shaman who profoundly influenced her spiritual path.
• She read his books on Native American spirituality and became involved in related practices, including living part-time in a teepee and embracing indigenous arts.
• Patrick performed shaktiput, a remote kundalini awakening transmission while Jesse was thousands of miles away, demonstrating spiritual power beyond physical proximity.
• She connects these shamanic practices with her broader spiritual experiences, including those at Harbin Hot Springs and during Watsu training.
• [36:35 → 43:48]
  • • Gnosticism, Holy Vortex Concept, and Interfaith Unity
• Jesse discusses gnosticism—the belief in direct experiential knowledge of God—as opposed to agnosticism (uncertainty about God).
• She relates ancient Christian baptismal rites as activation of spiritual knowledge (gnosis), paralleling kundalini activation practices.
• The Holy Vortex Foundation is introduced as a concept framework integrating diverse spiritual traditions and energy work centered on unity and wholeness.
• The term “holy” is explained as meaning “whole” or “complete,” highlighting the inclusive nature of spiritual awakening across faiths.
• They compare the Holy Vortex to a rainbow encompassing all colors, symbolizing religious and racial diversity converging into white light (unity).
• Jesse stresses the universal presence of similar spiritual concepts (kundalini, chakras, gnosis) across cultures and religions, advocating for cooperation over division.
• [43:48 → 50:48]
  • • Communion, Rituals, and Spiritual Practices
• The discussion covers the role of communion and ritual in various traditions:
  • Native American peace pipe as a communal unifier.
  • Christian use of wine in communion as symbolizing union.
  • Use of sacred herbs and inebriants (entheogens) in Hindu and other traditions for spiritual awakening.
• Jesse cautions about the misuse of sacred substances and stresses setting sacred intentions and boundaries during spiritual ceremonies (“sealing the circle”).
• Her book Becoming One serves as a practical guide for incorporating spiritual truths into intellectual, physical, and spiritual integrity.
• [50:48 → 01:01:33]
  • • Legal Challenges and Religious Freedom Battles
• Jesse shares her experiences practicing Watsu and aquatic dance nude (traditional to the practice) as part of her naturist beliefs and religious expression.
• She was arrested by Utah authorities after a sting operation, charged with crimes related to public nudity and religious practice.
• She fought the case pro se (self-representation) after court-appointed attorneys were withdrawn when filing motions to dismiss.
• Jesse was jailed for 28 days for refusing plea bargains, maintaining her First Amendment rights to religious freedom.
• Court restrictions prevented her from presenting constitutional defenses or witnesses during trial preparation.
• She eventually dropped filings to secure release but continues to fight in civil court for her religious rights.
• The host and Jesse discuss similar cases, such as Tracy Elise’s arrest for running a Goddess Temple practicing tantra in Arizona, highlighting systemic opposition to alternative spiritual practices.

Legal Issue	Description	Status/Outcome
Nude Watsu Practice	Arrested for practicing aquatic dance nude as religious expression in Utah	28 days jail, ongoing legal battle
Constitutional Defense	Court prevented witnesses & constitutional arguments in trial	Filed civil lawsuit
Goddess Temple Case	Arrest and felony charges for practicing tantra and spiritual rites in Arizona	House arrest, ongoing trial

[01:01:33 → 01:12:49]

• • • Call for Community, Support, and Future Collaboration
• Jesse encourages support for individuals like herself and Tracy who face legal challenges defending their spiritual freedoms.
• Half of donations to the Holy Vortex Foundation legal defense fund go to assist such cases.
• The conversation returns to community building, sovereignty, and the importance of networks supporting alternative spiritual paths.
• Jesse’s website (holyvortexfoundation.net) offers resources and information on her books, practices, and ongoing legal efforts.
• The host and Jesse express excitement about Maui as a nurturing energy hub conducive to community building and spiritual growth.
• They plan future shows to explore community aspects and sovereignty issues further.
• Contact information: heartsong.jbird@gmail.com
• [01:12:49 → 01:13:37]
  • • Closing Remarks
• Jesse emphasizes that everyone has a message and is a messenger in their spiritual journey.
• The host affirms the power of collaborative vision, referencing shared goals and spiritual awakening akin to cinematic metaphors (Spielberg’s films).
• The show closes with an invitation for viewers to join the community and embrace unity through diversity.

1. 1. 1. Key Insights and Conclusions

• Religious and spiritual awakening transcends dogma and cultural boundaries, uniting diverse traditions under shared experiences such as kundalini activation and gnosis.
• Community and communion are central to personal and collective healing, extending beyond dyadic relationships to wider social and spiritual networks.
• Alternative relationship models like polyamory/polyfidelity challenge Western monogamous norms and call for greater social acceptance and legal recognition.
• Spiritual practices such as Watsu, tantra, yoga, and shamanism provide tools for energy activation and awakening, often misunderstood or stigmatized.
• Legal systems frequently criminalize alternative spiritual expressions, necessitating ongoing activism and legal defense for religious freedom.
• Integration of body, mind, and spirit through practices and integrity leads to what Jesse calls “celestial integrity,” a key to holistic health and spiritual progress.
• The Holy Vortex Foundation symbolizes a paradigm of unity in diversity, emphasizing sacred geometry, rainbow symbolism, and the universal quest for oneness.

1. 1. 1. Terminology Table

Term	Definition
LDS / Mormonism	A Christian restorationist religious movement founded by Joseph Smith in the 19th century.
FLDS	Fundamentalist LDS sect practicing polygamy as originally taught by Joseph Smith.
Polygamy	Marriage system with multiple wives/husbands simultaneously.
Polyamory/Polyfidelity	Consensual multiple romantic relationships with fidelity to partners.
Kundalini	Dormant energy coiled at the base of the spine; spiritual awakening involves its rising.
Chakras	Seven energy centers aligned along the spine, each associated with specific colors and functions.
Watsu	Water shiatsu therapy combining massage and aquatic movement for healing and energy flow.
Shaktiput	A technique where one person awakens another’s kundalini energy remotely or directly.
Gnosticism	Early Christian belief in direct, experiential knowledge of God (gnosis).
Holy Vortex	Concept combining spiritual energy vortex and sacred wholeness, integrating multiple traditions.
Entheogens	Psychoactive substances used in religious/spiritual rituals to induce altered states.

Summary Timeline

Timeframe	Event/Theme
Birth–High School	Raised in Mormon tradition, began questioning.
Early Adulthood	Polygamous marriage, off-grid sustainable living.
20s–30s	Transition to polyamory, yoga, TM, community living.
Mid 30s	Teaching yoga, homeschooling, community engagement.
Later Years	Watsu training, shamanic experiences, kundalini awakenings.
2011	Arrested for religious/naturist practices; legal battle begins.
Post-2011	Incarceration, book writing, ongoing activism.
Present	Legal defense advocacy, community building on Maui, public education.

Contact and Resources

• Website: holyvortexfoundation.net
• Email: heartsong.jbird@gmail.com
• Books: Heart Song, Heart Wide Open, Becoming One, White Buffalo Woman

This summary faithfully captures the rich, multi-faceted content of the video transcript, highlighting Jesse Christian’s spiritual journey, teachings, legal struggles, and advocacy for community, freedom, and spiritual awakening.

Transcript

00:19

aloha welcome to another mama presents you know the maui arts and music association is part of the dream makers foundation which has maui arts and music association mama and people aligned in positive action papa mama and papa that’s an integrated planned future where we encourage and warm the family and papas out forging and we create the foundation for dreams to happen not by making them happen but by working with people to have them happen and in this 20-year journey it’s been rare that i’ve met someone

01:01

who was walking a similar path in that vision and had a totally different kind of life than me you know sometimes you see a picture and you say whoa isn’t that so much like this and that this is me i’ve got these couple of drawings and i then saw what happened here with jesse this is jesse christian hey aloha those are my friends and family and all our friends and family because um we have been doing television shows for 20 years and talking about self-sustainability and we’ve been talking about

01:39

balance and just a different i like to say a different paradigm you’ve been living a different paradigm and we came to lots of similar i wouldn’t say conclusions there’s a similar path where there’s something really special happening so that’s why she’s here i was born in salt lake city utah and i was born to an lds family um lds to those of you that don’t know that means latter-day saints mormon right mormon yes okay yeah nickname mormon so yeah we we all you know we all come into

02:18

this world you know in a certain construct and i was born in the mormon construct and it was actually a fourth generation now fifth generation on all four sides of my family so it was hard for me to get away from that uh mormon upbringing and so i was raised with a mormon tradition i was taught the mormon uh belief system um and you know with any religion there’s pros and cons you know and i embrace a lot of the virtues of the mormon uh religion there are some amazing things that i learned in mormonism

02:59

actually is it very different than christianity very different is it very different because jesus is still a focus right yeah yeah well basically for those that don’t know really much about mormonism is joseph smith was a prophet and you know he he claimed to have found these golden blades that he translated as the history of the native americans on this continent and that that was what i was taught growing up and that he restored what he called the primitive church which was the the christian church as it was when jesus

03:39

was or jesus established it um and so you know this is kind of the the the line that they tell you when you know that the missionaries come to your door and they want to teach you about mormonism they knock on your door and say hi we’re mormons and we’d like to teach you about the mormon religion and they they tell you that joseph smith uh wanted to join a church and he was told by um an angelic visitor that he was to join no religions that all of them had apostasized that all the christian

04:15

religions had actually fallen away or apostasized from the true religion and so it was his calling or message that he was to restore or establish a new church which he then named the latter-day saint or lds church and it got to be nicknamed mormon because the angelic visitors name was angel moroni who got these uh records from mormon wow you know all the good stuff well of course of course it’s just what i was here here you are in the middle of mormonism yes yes and you grew up and you were a young woman

04:57

you got married i did yes and i left i i kind of left my mormon background i started actually questioning a lot about the validity of mormonism uh into high school you know when i started you know finding some of the facts about it and so i kind of left mormonism and got into a more um eastern religious path i started doing yoga and tm and training and dental medicine there’s only three of you that didn’t know that’s pretty good there you go so and it really really helped me to get a little bit more grounding into some

05:39

some spiritual more awareness you know getting more in me in touch with with god and the divine as a direct um connection with the divine and that really helped me to uh navigate really some of the the turbulent waters married at the time no actually i was this is actually when i was pregnant with my first daughter um she’s 34 right now yeah well i was 21. okay i was 21 when i started doing you only be 39 now you’re looking so young how old do you think this girl is he looks like a young girl he is a young

06:17

man oh yes so but your wisdom comes through and what i keep seeing so they are 21 going through changes looking at tm exploring yoga kind of reaching out a little bit inside a very confined it seems a very confined and restricted society and i don’t want to say moral practice because some people would say wait a minute christians who want to practice don’t they have many wives all of them have many wives and that’s a whole we can go into that if you’d like you had one husband yes who had

07:01

more than one one yes eventually we got into um flds which is a fundamental mormonism which uh they still embrace the idea that joseph smith taught that men should have more than one wife in order to gain celestial celestial kingdom to be able to reach the highest kingdom in heaven so i’m gonna put a hole in that one myself how can celestial kingdom be based on physical uh beings more physical beings gives you more place in celestial kingdom is that what you’re saying well it’s one of the

07:41

principles it’s one of the principles that joseph smith taught you know in some of the mormon doctrines that these were like i said these were fundamental principles of mormon doctrines and and the modern-day church has left off some of these fundamental principles because they don’t practice polygamy or united order or any of those um teachings that joseph smith restored as part of the primitive church which was you know an interesting dialogue actually if you want to go into that but um no here’s what i’m looking

08:13

for okay i’m touching on this to go somewhere i’m not worried about the mormons i mean i can pick on them a little bit or try i put a hole in but that wasn’t my intention my intention is to talk about you were in a mormon marriage right and you were one of a number of wives and you started to get kids and you were breaking out of a mold and something happened and then that’s where i was going to jump from well yeah i’ll give you a platform to jump from because i explained up front

08:41

that you and i live very different lives and yet here we are coming up and seeing the same vision like first thing uh what was it first encounter of the third kind steven spielberg you have to correct me third encounter of the some kind there was something with kind someone was kind well that sounds like my relationship i call it the close encounters of the weird kind because we ended up you make a long story short and this is actually in my first book heart song is kind of my history of my mormon

09:19

you know journey we actually lived off the grid this was as multiple ones yes yes yes and this is my wife my first blue card song and it’s gotta be a different experience it was it was very different it was very um expansive i mean i can’t deny some of the benefits that i got from it i mean like i said everything has its pros and cons you know i had a lot of children at the time that christy joined me um in my polygamous relationship but we were living off the grid she’s the second wife she was the second wife we call

09:57

them wives she was my sister wife so she was the second wife and she joined us um in a place we called higher ground which was uh 640 acres that were off the ground up in montana and we were you know we were clear back in the national forest i mean we our closest neighbor was two and a half miles away so we didn’t have electricity we didn’t have telephone we did have a water system so we were pretty rustic um and by that time i had seven children so i was basically barefoot and pregnant in

10:34

the backwoods of montana and maybe 30. uh yeah yeah so you had 35. when did you get your second wife somewhere alone yeah about 35. so yeah she’s about 35 and she was quite young she was like 21 and she had a son that she had from another relationship so you know we had been investigating you know the fundamentalist mormon religion and i actually lived in a community called pinestyle for about seven years up until that time so i got kind of a taste of community living in a polygamous uh community called

11:14

pines now it wasn’t quite sustainability and i want to say not a primitive form but you wouldn’t say would you say you live primitively or did you live differently well no in pinesdale it was a beautiful community uh model because they had a gathered school and i worked at the school i actually was a yoga and pe teacher there and did art classes there at a gather school they had a gathered garden they had about 200 to 300 people that lived there in pinesville and it was a it was a beautiful

11:48

community um environment yes yes it’s there yes it’s up there in pinestone montana and i actually buried one of my sons there on their property i lost a son due to you with the um how consequences of whooping cough he actually didn’t die a whooping cough actually he got a staph infection in the hospital and that again is another story okay we’re we’re exploring things although i’m i’m happy to share about this yeah what i’m looking to share about is from a totally different place and me or

12:28

probably many of our viewers you know have lived a different kind of a life and um out of this something happened in you that made you want to leave and you now you guys don’t know yet except if you know this is janae thornberg and you also know that this is a lady who has gone through so many things that she’s going to get into with some of them she’s written a number of books give us a couple of titles just so these guys can start looking yeah yeah and they’re available on my website as well

13:02

um what’s your website holyfortextfoundation.net vortexfoundation.net that’ll be a story i’ll tell later okay and on the website what kind of books uh well heart sound like i mentioned is the story kind of it’s kind of a fictional um i call it a fantasy of how i see community actually working where it’s egalitarian where you know we can have multiple partners but it’s across the board that women as well as men get to embrace the the concept of what i call polyamory which is kind of a

13:38

new age concept but i like that or poly fidelity is also a really great couch word which is you know we’re we’re we have other partners but we are faithful to those partners and so it’s a very expansive um lifestyle choice and so it’s kind of we’ve had a couple of different people on the show that have explored these subjects so i imagine many of our viewers are open and understanding more than you may think and understand that uh that we in the western christian world with single partner whenever

14:14

we make things illegal and things still happen and then society gets this whole drama around multiple partners and all kinds of vicious hatred and weirdness between people because of things like sex because of things like uh intimacy of relationship that even isn’t even sex you know so there’s a lot of growth and we have an audience that’s been growing out here right you guys are growing we have some interesting subjects so well i do a little little bit to add to that um you know there’s been a lot of

14:48

tv shows that’s kind of introducing people to the mormon concept of polygamy like um big love which is if you want to know that was my story really i mean it is it’s so true to life to deform as far as how i live my life it was big love and then sister wives actually uh no this is a reality show um yeah a lot of you may know about sister wives it’s it’s a reality show and actually cody brown is uh christy brown my second wife or kurt’s second wife my sister wife’s brother

15:32

and he actually um is fighting a legal battle because they wanted to come after him which is really a turn of events the state of utah was going to come after him and and charge him with um bigamy because he went public with his uh lifestyle of having i think he’s got four or five wives and i know all the wives they’re wonderful beautiful people so he’s actually filed a lawsuit against the state of utah civil lawsuit to um to fight the right for people to have um multiple partners if that’s their choice

16:08

and i’m i’m all for you know pro-choice as far as you know partnering and you know these are our bodies and we we should be able to determine what we do you know with consenting adults and when i hear that i always go back to that thing about sex because what consulting adults that becomes a social and moral issue instead of another more personal issue of why can’t people all co-operate you know we somehow get lost on this sometimes you hear it broken into i’m sure you made to first dynamic second dynamic you know

16:47

first is self second is you and a partner and then there’s a family unit that’s a group and then there’s mankind anything so somehow we get stuck on rules and regulations in the personal and forget that there’s a larger and more significant self-sustainability than just in an intimate twosome it can be very very unbalancing which is the way the western civilization and i guess some of the eastern civilizations set their models up which is why we have these kind of funny shows huh yeah because uh we’re trying

17:27

to look at what works and what is and try to bring i at least i do i know i can hear it from your heart peace into the world cooperation this is i call it community yeah yes we call it communion which is coming coming into unity by living in community which is kind of the bylaw to my it’s nice coming into unity living in community and community is everywhere i mean it’s everyone and every everyone and everywhere that we look is community and it’s whether or not we want to engage in a community on

18:03

all levels you know you know we’re talking you know we can go into the chakra levels or tantra which is really what tantra is about but i’d like to kind of go back to you know when you’re talking about my books um heart wide open is really a book of me attempting to live in a polyamorous community after i left my polygamous relationship because i i fought for my rights as a woman’s you um engage in other relationships um and wanted you know i i basically sent the other two wives away and we tried to heal some

18:41

of the issues that were coming up for me in not having the same or equal rights as my husband and so um i ended up leaving my relationship with him and actually my 10 children i left behind and the second wife kristi ended up raising them and it was a really tough choice but i did ten shoes yes now that’s either a very wealthy family where you lived and learned to to value different things than money and things exactly exactly and you know it was great lifestyle for these children we were in the back of

19:24

the woods we were pretty sustainable we had you know goats and chickens and grow a huge garden and you know i considered my children as great helpers you know they went out and gathered eggs and milk goats i mean my two daughters they brag you know they’re the best goat milkers around you know they are they are from school did you teach them yes and i home schooled them um part of my our belief system is that the public schools uh have been corrupted um and the health care system has been corrupted and we didn’t want to

20:05

expose our children to that type of corruption well that a lot of huge corporations are really running the um the curriculums of the school system as well as as in health care you know the um so you just didn’t want to be supportive of that yeah we didn’t i actually had my kids at home my home birth my children so we kind of avoided you know going the modern medical route and i learned to be an herbalist i i practiced under dr christopher and got my master herbalist under him and and we eventually wrote some books my my

20:46

ex-husband curt was a teacher there and my first book i wrote actually was herbs to the rescue which was done as a commissioned work for dr christopher’s school of natural healing and i also wrote a book thank you mother nature which is kind of a handbook for home birth so we did a lot a lot of work with the school yeah god i know yeah i’ve been really busy having a busy life and you have another one about buffalo woman well yeah let me talk about so the second book heart wide open which on the cover is me nude because

21:23

i’m a naturist and i embrace naturism and it’s actually a depiction of me and a vision quest that i had on top of higher ground where i got some some very profound answers and you know i do embrace a lot of shamanic practices you know go out i invite all of you to go out and do vision questing you know if you want to go directly to god you know create a sacred circle on top of a mountain fast and pray and you’ll get your answers you know god hears you and god will answer you and and so and that vision is part

21:55

of the first part of both of my books i um uh talk about my vision quest up there on higher ground which i left unfortunately and so heart wide open is really about some of the experiences good and bad of living in a polyamorous um community in utah and a lot of the people were ex-mormons that really you know gotten past the whole mormon doctrine but believed that there were certain principles that were potent you know i call them correct principles and i i really do think in community we we expand ourselves in relationships and

22:41

i experienced that in in my polygamous relationship of really expanding through my jealousy and possessiveness issues and my need to control another person and so i landed with a really you know um evolved group of friends in salt lake and you know that’s kind of my experience and also my experiences um at the bellagio where i became larger yeah yeah i became one of the league therapists in the bellagio and i learned uh lotsu through my experience that’s the experience i had here with you

23:21

would you as i was going through it i remember just relaxing into it and feeling i don’t know like i was swimming in the water like a just in a way that i’ve never felt before yeah do people do a series of these they can i recommend it it really takes you back into sometimes into the mother’s womb it can take you back that far because you’re in warm water the same temperature as the womb and you’re cradled a lot of it is cradling you like when you’re a child so you can feel safe you can feel safe to

24:09

release you know a lot of uh the impact that our bodies and mind body mind and spirit has had through this lifetime that we’ve been here it almost felt like a womb-like or you know a way primitive experience yeah it’s it does some deep releasing as well as i do a lot of deep cranial sacral work and spinal adjustments so there you are at the bellagio it’s all right okay but as you can see a woman of many facets like a diamond or a ruby you know the fact is no but you know that’s the thing i think

24:49

we we find about people isn’t it that if we make a judgment we put them in a box but if we just relax and be observant and interact gently colors and sparkles come off there’s so much more to our life than that when we rush through it and don’t take the time to look and share so i hope that’s what we’re doing so here we are i’m going back we’re past the first two books yes and now we’re at the bellagio so all this you did training and obviously all kinds of things to be now one of the lead

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therapists at the bellagio hotel in las vegas nevada doing watsu aqua dance this is on maui so this is available now it is it is right it absolutely yes so my experience was one of hopefully many of you will get to enjoy this experience we’ll put numbers and stuff up you’ll have no problem finding so here we are back in the bellagio and you’ve now evolved to this independent therapist were you still in the polyamorous relationship or no no i actually had left that and i was i remarried uh actually pretty soon

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afterwards to brad bird and i became janae thornbird which is what a lot of my books are under the authorship shane thornbird and i i wrote another book which is called uh becoming one the journey towards god and actually um i wrote it twice i did a rewrite on it because i had written that when i was actually in a polygamous relationship because i was getting a lot of downloads from god i actually was going to name that book conversations with god like i told you then i then i heard about neil knows a

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lot yeah siri i’m like wow we already stole my title so shucks sorry to rename it and so you know that name came to me becoming one um the journey toward god and it really was i was looking at all the religions at that time and seeing the consistencies i was seeing the similarities rather than the differences and i realized that there were there there was a few things they all had in common and one was the idea that we’re all one you know we’re all one in spirit and and some of them talked about this

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activation of our divine self that reconnects us with our memory of being one and being one with god and so it really started me on a journey to find answers on some of these practices that would um activate what i learned later to be kundalini uh in the eastern scientific religion or now i’m sort of looking at the timeline are we at the bellagio this is also building up it is actually actually when i went to take my uh watsi training i got a lot you know how you connect the dots and you get these aha moments

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well it was when i was at harbin and studying uh this this watsu training carbon hot springs harbin hot springs and they did a lot of taunts were there i learned a lot of tantra at harbin and uh harold dole who was the one who founded and invented watsu was a zen shiatsu master and i realized that the real underlying purpose of the uh watsi was to activate kundalini energy and i know kundalini is such a mystical name you know and my first husband thought oh yeah i got a big kundalini you know and

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i’m like no it has nothing to do with sex kundalini you know so those of you who are christians who have never gotten outside the box of words kundalini i’m going to give you my quick definition let me hear yourself yes is a flow of energy that goes uh through your body that’s focused on the in my mind in the spine area that goes through different points that that together a rainbow of colors or these different points that have different energetic and tied to all kinds of different aspects of life so when you

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awaken your kundalini it’s like being more awakened to the possibilities of life i don’t know if that’s that’s a great definition absolutely um but people think sex that’s what all people think and i don’t know why because you know sex involves the second chakra and you know we’ll just talk briefly about chakras they’re energy centers of the body and we have seven that are noted you know we do have others that are in the etheric state but uh the seven physical chakras you know are the base

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to the crown chakra and you know you can go and research that on your own but it basically is we are a rainbow of color and you know to have a full awakening kundalini is to activate and balance all of the chakras in the chakra system so that it can they integrate and they start to vibrate or um they actually spiral as i i have this kundalini awakening and it spirals slowly at the base and then it actually gets faster and faster until it’s just spinning up through the crown and you actually see these bright

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lights when you have this activation it’s amazing experience and by all of you dude i’m breaking in again because i’m going back to my my uh wants to experience my that spiral feeling i know i was going around in the water with you but i could feel my energy building so i when i was feeling like i was going on the road to hana except ten times faster that’s what was happening because it’s really opening up a lot of receptor sites in the brain and i warned you about that well i felt good because

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it meant to me that i was open to the experience that i was available to the experience that was happening and i look forward to doing more and if there’s no guarantees in doing a watsu’s gonna do it actually just i’m just gonna go i’m just gonna go back a minute in time because i thought i was gonna get this great kundalini awakening through my yoga practice and my transcendental meditation and i was vigilant about i was a disciple i was a yoga practitioner and a yogi and i did i practiced yoga religiously

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for probably 20 years and then i met this shaman named patrick corker speaking wind his native american name was speaking wind and we had this amazing encounter i mean it was divinely inspired there’s no doubt about it it was it was divinely orchestrated and so i met patrick and i read uh his first book this is one of his books and there’s i don’t know if you can zoom in on that but um being that we have no camera guy we ain’t a human but here’s a picture of patrick yes patrick

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cork the message speaking wind okay and i actually read his his first volume which i don’t have with me but it was called when spirits touched the red path and i was very very interested in native american folklore because growing up mormon you know we were taught that the book of mormon was the history of the native americans and you know that again is a long story but my family was very um well they they wanted to assist the native americans with some of the financial needs and so i got really entrained in

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the native american lifestyle and actually lived in a teepee at one time and learned a lot of the native american arts and crafts i was very um like i say very interested and attracted to the native american spiritual traditions so when i met patrick and i’d read his book when spirits touched the red path he talked about this experience of becoming spiritually one and it was very intriguing as he described it in his book uh because i was actually writing a book that talked about how we were all

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spiritually one in our pre-existence or in the spirit world and that we do have this incredible intimacy or oneness that we can’t experience and i believe that we can experience that in this life and i knew that patrick had some of those answers for me and so i met him when he was doing a a conference in linden utah and met him and it was it was um my you know it was just a life-changing experience with patrick but um you know and a lot of that’s in my books but to make a long story short is um he

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actually did what’s called shaktiput which is um somebody else that that has their kundalini awake and can actually awaken somebody else’s kundalini and what was so interesting about it is he was actually in alabama and i was in salt lake city utah when this occurred when this activation happened so that’s how powerful the spirit world is and um and i learned so much from uh patrick he was the real deal he was the real kind of shaman i mean he could remote view like no other i’ve ever seen which you

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know remote viewing is that you can see past and future and you know you can spirit journey which is what true shamans can do and so it was an incredible experience when he activated my kundalini it was like i understood what was going on you know i understood that the spinning was my chakras activating and awakening and moving up through my um chakra system out through my head and then as let’s go back to so when i was at harbin hot springs and doing my watsui training and yeah i recognized that

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this was yeah during my stay at the bellagio i recognized that there was that sound movement outside as the things were talking it got louder and boomier so you were at harvard and you’re recognized well i i was recognizing that there were certain techniques especially um therapeutic or you know bodywork techniques that help to get the body let’s say prepared for an activation and part of the body work that i was doing at the time was massage which is i call it you know hands-on hands-on healing

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do you guys know what an activation is give us a definition activation preparing for an activation well our our kundalini energy actually lies dormant in um kind of this bowl the perineum bowl perineal bowl yeah physically and um yeah and and and so mystics teach uh you know that we can prepare for an activation by doing yoga yoga is a great way to to prepare the bodies for this activation and also um meditation is great tm transcendental meditation as well as certain types of body work um really

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releases some of the restrictions in the body that prevent our full experience of energy activation and it’s all about energy you know our bodies are simply a vehicle of energy and so we can we all can have this experience it’s not just for the mystics it’s not just for the yogi’s it’s not just for the gnostics so i do want to talk about gnostics because that really takes me back to mormon roots glaston g-n-o-s-t-i-c gnostic okay yes i’m just giving you guys a little bit of

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you know uh road map because as you can see this experience is so complex and woven and yet here we are like i said we came to a very similar place from two different places absolutely which is really what the holy vortex is about the holy vortex is bringing all of those paths of our spiritual and religious powers we know what holy is holy means special and revere right or it can mean whole wholesome healed holy can it comes actually from the greek word kalos holy comes from beautiful or it means

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whole and complete okay so holy means complete whole and vortex you know i don’t know if you’ve read any of the abraham um translation or um transcriptions yeah from uh esther and jerry hicks esther and jerry hicks they wrote a great book called the vortex and you know the vortex is really a kundalini is a vortexing of energy you know and the holy vortex i would call a kundalini awakening a little vortex is sort of like a doorway yes absolutely okay so it’s a it’s a energy doorway to exploration of

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in your portrayal the rainbow the seven chakras is it interesting that i’m working with companies called rainbow right that’s what i’m saying we’re talking about the rainbow temple which i’ve been talking about for 20 years and here you are coming from a whole different place and here we are and those drawings that you showed you look wait till you look at the holy vortex foundation.net website you’ll see that the core of ideas and how they work together when we i’m very excited about that

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that from totally different places we can come to the same idea like i said excuse me idea steven seal work if you’re out there come on in this is one of those we’re all building the same mountain we’re all here on the same few notes we’re coming here from all different ways to this to the holy vortex this holy vortex yes because that is it’s embracing all of the rainbow colors it’s because we all you know are transmitting a different color and you know we can call them races or

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religions beliefs but you know we all emit a certain vibration or color and when we activate our holy vortex it becomes white light and white light contains it all you know white light contains all of the colors and that’s really what we’re coming to i really believe that this is the paradigm that we are entering into is the oneness without the oneness i mean the native americans they’re so simplistic they just call it the oneness which is was basically what patrick called what we i experienced as

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a kundalini awakening and what the gnostics so let’s go back to gnostic now gnostic as opposed to agnostic agnostic means to not know and some people say i’m an agnostic because i don’t know god directly gnostics believe they could have a direct experience with god and they would actually in if you go back to some of the naga mahdi uh scriptures that are gnostic scriptures you will find that they did this ordinance where they would take people out in water and they would do this called baptism

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they would take them out and activate their gnosis well you know it was like i was trying to connect all the dots you know well maybe that’s what they were doing out here in harmony doing this watson practices they were activating gnosis well this is an ancient tradition this is what the primitive church the primitive christians would do and once they activated their gnosis you know that’s all they needed you know they were connected to god they didn’t need anybody else they didn’t need that was

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julian yes yes he found the spot in the river and that’s what he did absolutely he may have activated jesus’s noses and that’s when you know the white dove came down how does that make you christians feel i hope it makes you feel suddenly freed that there’s more information out there it puts all of what is in the core of your belief and gives you more understanding and you know i don’t know where where is the word kundalini is that hindu i think it’s a hindu i think it’s sanskrit

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a sanskrit hindu word in the middle of gnostic which is american indian and native no no gnostic is a primitive church word that is a primitive christian look at that i mean look how that ties together so isn’t that exciting it’s a rainbow and all these different religions have these ideas they all circle around and call it different things isn’t that great to realize that we’re all one we’re all seeing the same vision well we’re all saying the same thing we’re basically telling the same story

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we’re just using different words and different concepts you know where it’s a concept that is pervasive in every culture and every religion every spiritual practice and so you know if we let go of all the the terms and meanings and labels that we’ve labeled this to be this certain and then we have to do all these practices and we have to do all these rituals around this in order to achieve this you know and i think every religion was started because somebody had this amazing awakened experience and they

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wanted to replicate that and have everybody have that which is what i wanted i wanted to replicate my experience for you because it was so incredibly um mind-changing it was life-changing and so um you know all religions the christians you know they wanted to activate people’s noses so they took people out into the water and activated it and then they wanted to own that experience so that they created these mystery schools and they created a religion around that and then they created politics around giving certain people

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the right to have that experience or information for that experience does that make sense to you yeah i mean i’m i’m the reason i was ready to jump in is when you talked about the christians and the gnosis it just came to me i think it’s important for the jews to know there were no christians at the time these were i’m sure john the baptist what was he is he jewish i’m sure he was jewish jesus was jewish so see how it all ties together we’re all trying to find the differences and

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separations instead of finding what we agree on how we can co-operate community give me that little sign that thing you said again coming into unity by living in community and and community and let and just take that word and break it down commune or communion you know so many religions have all of these uh rights or communion practices you know the native americans brought the peace pipe the white buffalo woman brought the peace pipe as a type of communion celebration she used that as a tool of

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communion and all of the treaties in the name you know with the white men were done on this communion practice of of smoking the peace pipe and she was a powerful messenger to the native americans and that’s of course that will bring me to the next book white buffalo white buffalo woman but um and yet we use these tools like tobacco instead of as a tool of communion of bringing people into unity or or coming into union we actually use them as um addictive drugs you know and see what jesus like

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uh he brought the wine and the sacrament as a form of communion you know and so the wine was used as a means to come into union and and you know the catholics still use that practice of communion and you know the the name again um the hindus and the you know all these they will use different herbs to bring them into higher states and you know they can call them in theogens which means uh god within but what’s happened is we’ve taken these in theogens and we’ve we’ve kind of um abused them and have made them the path

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to our awakening and so you know i just caution people when they are doing sacred ceremony and using these strong and theogens that they you know at least seal their circle and make it sacred and make the objective to come into community or communion with those substances some of you guys don’t know what seal this circle means but you know that’s where you’re to go and enjoy and your books must be filled with lots of ritual absolutely and lots of explanation of of um i guess practice practices yes i do

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becoming one is definitely a guidebook to uh do some of these practices that we we actually incorporate truth on all of our our intellectual our physical and our spiritual bodies and my one of the first chapters which is in becoming one is how we can gain our own integrity which is actually um incorporating which incorporate means to embody truth on all of all of those levels and so really the objective in our life is to find correct principles and to lift those correct principles and then you gain what i call

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celestial integrity and it’s you know it’s valuable for health for instance you know that we are in our own integrity um so let me ask you a question i know i’m hearing this as a two-part show you probably also if not more because now we’ve we’ve gotten a little bit of exploration into who you are and i think that um we could talk about each of these areas and probably that would be a good idea to have uh jesse how do you get the name jesse or is that a whole other story here we

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can talk about how i got the name jessie um we’ll have to go into some some interesting experiences that i had back in utah um i had i actually um established four healing centers in utah one was living stream which is in logan utah and then i had a heart song healing center in st george utah and then i had a higher ground in draper and then i established a fabulous healing center and holiday called hearthstone healing center and i actually uh built a an above ground watsi pool that was absolutely beautiful

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it was in one of these older mansions and i had a bunch of therapists working for me and you know it was very high-end i i had modeled it after the bellagio and harbin and harbin was a clothing optional spiritual retreat so i really wanted to incorporate uh some of the the tantric and gnostic and shamanic practices and so i established myself as a church there in in holiday from from my vision quest that i did and i called it the church of the gathering of what is real and i know that sounds like a really

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corny name i don’t know but that’s what i got on top of the mountain in my vision quest that you know we have this misnomer that it’s the gathering of these tribes of israel but it really the gathering is people that really see what is real it’s right here right now what we’re experiencing the love that we share between us the energy that we share between us and that’s really what this idea of the gathering of what is real and that we see the truth that we actually are willing to open our eyes and see the

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truth are you 114 you have so much life backed into you here you guys are going to be sitting and reading a lot but i think you’re going to need to get in touch with this young lady to be able to find out more about watsu about aquatic dance and to understand this holy vortex foundation and we’re going to do another show i hope you will about how the holy vortex foundation and the dream makers foundation really are similarly linked and a chain of these i see you wearing a a six sided yes that’s it’s a rainbow actually

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hexagon which is a it’s a rainbow quartz and yeah i was given to that or by a friend of mine i was actually doing that well i think a hexagon i think of i don’t know i think of the jewish star that’s funny star of david yes it’s a very powerful uh sacred geometry and it’s you know in many different religions and all over i’m sure that that i don’t know why i always look out there and i’m thinking there are lots of christians maybe because i’m here in america that i hope will jump for joy

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that there are people out there they want everyone to believe in jesus in the life of jesus and here we are there are people that are living things that can help make that life real and relative to many more people than you thought you had to convert someone you just have to open up and be aware of these different energy centers and let that information in and embrace it i don’t think we could have war if we absolutely yes if we look at the similarities rather than our differences and you know in my

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book becoming one i i talk about the tree of life which is a part of the jewish tradition and it’s a beautiful mystical tradition of the tree of life or the sephirah and it it even models the chakra system quite well it is in alignment with the chakra system so i do take all of the religions in my book becoming one the journey toward god and you know i just i do comparatives and say you know look we’re really talking about the same thing we’re just using different language we’re just using a different way of

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explaining things you know model some of us here on maui some of you are on maui in fact come on down um but we on maui are very fortunate to have people like jesse who hasn’t told us where she got that name yet but because we have an extra don’t we have an extraordinary island something else oh my god it’s magical it i’ll tell you you will have manifestations of the divine every day you will just put out what you want and it will just come to you i mean it’s just almost immediately here in maui

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and i think it’s just because it’s such a mother energy here there’s just such a nurturing mother magical mystical energy that i that’s why i’m here i love all right and so do i have a little bit of time to talk so back to um so i established my church there in the holiday utah and i was incorporating some of the gnostic and tantra practices that i had learned at harbin and um unfortunately the mormon community didn’t appreciate my spreading my gospel to uh so you know the people there in holiday and

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they they decided to do a sting operation after i went public about my listing after i went public about my naturist um ideas and practices because uh watsu is normally done or traditionally done in the nude and that’s how i learned it at harbin and so i had a very private pool and i i was doing some of my practices nude and i am a naturist and i believe that nudity is kind of a metaphor for just showing up authentic and so they got wind of it and then i had the whole vice squad in there and i got arrested

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and they hauled me off to jail and so i fought i fought the system i stood up for my constitutional rights my first amendment rights for uh being able to practice my religion which incorporated you know these practices of shamanic and gnostic and tantric practices and so i’ve been fighting um the utah court system since it happened in january of 2011. eventually because i would not back down i would not take a plea bargain um and i started i realized that all of my court appointed attorneys were being

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withdrawn every time they would try to file a motion to dismiss they would get withdrawn and i was becoming very suspicious about it and finally i fired all of them and went pro se and filed um some filings you know my own uh motion to dismiss on so many variables so many grounds for dismissal i mean it was phenomenal that they even were pursuing it anymore and after i fired all my attorneys went pro se and filed these motions the judge threw me in jail for no reason and i spent 28 days in jail

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because i would not back down on my right to practice my religion and so um you mean because you were doing your practice in the nude yeah that was this 28 days in general yes and i never sure i have never they never found me guilty of anything she just wanted a strong army into and to clean out and you know i kind of was getting their game plan and so while i was in there i you know i was in jail i didn’t know what to do i’d never done anything i felt my life wrong you know i followed all the you know

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traffic you know laws everything and so after three days of fasting you know i thought it was going to be like gandhi or throne and i was going to fast my way out on the third day i had this this impression and i’m a big wayne dyer fan i love when he’s one of my practitioners and here on island uh i this saying that he says all the time came to mind this is if you if you change the way you look at things the things you look at change so i like wow it was kind of like a little message this little aha in my

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mind i’m like okay well maybe i’m looking at this differently maybe this is just a great opportunity for me a quiet space i can use in a positive way absolutely so what’d you do so i wrote a book and i did i’m a writer in fact i was thinking that it was time for me to write a new book what was the name of the book it’s called white buffalo woman white buffalo woman yes white bubble was the author well it was during that time i felt i felt like a feminine emissary of jesus christ

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i felt that i was thrown in jail had the same types of experiences that my master jesus had gone through and i felt so akin to him and being a minister there in the depths of jail and the depths of hell really and i had some great awakenings actually i spent 11 11 11 in jail so you know those are significant numbers i had a powerful powerful experience on eleven eleven but you’ll have to read my book to find out about that powerful you were in jail and then you were writing a book i was writing my book i had to use

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these golf pencils i had to use golf pencils that were this big and this is just a pad of paper i got in jail and i went through like two pads of paper and you know i just write every day and it wasn’t really just about my experiences it was really um documenting a lot of the experiences of the women that were in jail so here came the name because i’m still looking for a writer yes so so then i just had this grand awakening that i needed to change my name because i had such a change of heart and so i

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decided to take on the feminine component of jesus christ and call myself jesse christian now jesse christian wrote white buffalo woman so and also yeah because i’m kind of a little bit of a renegade right now i’m uh to tell you the truth i’m on the lab i still have to fight my uh court battle in utah um i actually after being released i had to withdraw all of my filings my paperwork in order for me to get released it was kind of a blackmail thing and then they tried to force me into

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jury trial in the next few months and they would not let me bring any witnesses and they would not let me defend myself on any constitutional principles i could not bring the constitution this was the story this is the state of utah this is the same state of utah that’s there now right yes state of utah we’d like to hear your uh feelings about this where is it appropriate to do that i think i’d like to hear from a lot of people about that continue yes so um they were going to force me into a jury

01:00:22

trial i didn’t get to pick any of my jurors and they forced me to have an attorney who i knew had been bought because i told him i didn’t feel i could get a fair trial a fair trial in that jurisdiction in the state of utah because they had all already shown that i was being prejudiced against because of my religion so i i walked away i just said i can’t do this i you know i know what their game plan was and so the day before i was to go to trial and my the judge ruled that i could not

01:01:00

bring any constitutional arguments or witnesses i had a list of like five professional witnesses i had a doctor that did tantra that was going to go to witness i had james mooney who established the aqlavon native american church who was on my side he was he was going to back me up all the way i had a whole list of witnesses you were blocked from your right to defend yourself absolutely absolutely so we’re happy to have you here it’s good to be here actually i love utah that’s where my peeps are

01:01:33

all my peeps because my family’s there i’ve got most of my children that are still in utah and i have a warrant out for my arrest because i would refuse to go to my jury trials so and that’s another reason i’ve changed my name so if there are any attorneys out here would like to be helpful in this i hope that you’ll feel free to get in touch with me or with uh jessie direct yes and a little note too um they did the same thing in arizona to a very very dear friend of mine tracy

01:02:04

elise and she had a beautiful goddess temple the phoenix goddess temple and they actually arrested her and 32 goddesses that same year in september of 2011 and they actually char or filed felony charges against tracy and her goddesses uh for syndicated crime for running a syndicated crime circuit even though they were practicing what they did what were they doing what they were doing for work tantra you know tantra has kind of gotten a bad name over the years because we we consider tantra as sexual healing or you know having a

01:02:45

sexual experience and you know i i believe that people should have whatever the experience they want between consenting adults and so i support tracy and what she was doing in other words at the the phoenix goddess temple and yet you know she was charged with prostitution you know rocketeering syndicated crime you know all these horrendous crimes and all she in her heart of hearts was practicing was was tantra which is to uh weave with all of the chakras which includes a sexual chakra which includes

01:03:20

the the second chakra because we are a rainbow color of light and if we eliminate sexuality you know do we have a rainbow that’s what i was talking about earlier when i’m talking about our society is focused on second dynamic on that sexual thing yeah instead of a bigger picture well i always have to talk about that is that still ongoing yes yes i was actually down there with tracy um in uh oh september or this past september and she was continuing to practice she was actually um on house arrest and she had

01:03:57

to wear one of those monitors on her ankle and you know she was having a lot of health problems because of it and you know she’d been on house arrest for 15 months waiting trial and they were just really pressing pressuring her to to plea out and uh she was going to stand firm she wanted to take it all the way to a jury trial and uh you know i was supporting her in every aspect and she did go go to court one one time when i was there and that judge ruled that she could bring in constitutional arguments that she was

01:04:37

able to bring into her case the constitutional argument i applaud that judgment first i wouldn’t let you bring arguments yes and so that was a huge um step in the direction of for my case to to you know be retrialed there actually i have actually filed a civil lawsuit against the state of utah so i’m waiting to hear back from the state of utah because i i filed a huge uh so she says she’s a fugitive but they’re in communication yeah very funny i did i filed a civil lawsuit it’s in the federal and supreme

01:05:17

court of the united talk about states next time we get together because i want to show you but let me let me just finish with tracy so while i was down there she actually got charged again and put in jail and she’s in jail right now and i want everybody who’s hearing this to pray for treason this is the beginning of march 2013. yes and she got put in jail again with a quarter of a million dollar cash only bond on her head no she can’t get out until somebody puts up a quarter of a million dollar cash

01:05:56

for practicing tantra for practicing tantra for for claiming her right to practice what she believes in her heart is a true religion it’s such an in-depth problem we have here and how our old society has created this thing that and i was going to put out my opinion you obviously can tell my opinion i think our society needs to adjust its view of what does community mean and what is freedom and what what choices do we have of our own life and self are we going to dictate that people can only do this and that

01:06:37

you know our society is changing in lots of ways and somehow people like to enforce their way as the only way um i really like to think that more of us will understand that if we work on our own temple in our way that is as a lifetime experience by itself why we have to force people into different things in different ways i really don’t i don’t know and appreciate i sure hope we grow past that um absolutely so those are amazing years inviting people to give her support yes just yeah i’m inviting people to give

01:07:23

tracy some support um how can they do that well if you go onto my website only vortex foundation and you do want to donate to to the holy vortex foundation half of that is going towards a legal defense fund for people like tracy like me that are defending their rights to practice their relationships so that’s a that’s something that is uh what’s the word um i’ll totally separate apart from this is if you look into this a lot of people when we see things on this show they bring up all kinds of stuff the only

01:08:05

reason i’m identifying a separation is we’re not pitching for your money no we’re talking about different things look at this situation here with a legal defense fund needed for somebody who’s a quarter of a million dollars cash bond yeah well we’re not trying to give the bond we’re just actually trying to get a decent attorney for for tracy she can’t afford an attorney she’s got a court appointed attorney who is really uh jacking her up i mean he’s really not on

01:08:36

her team we decided after seeing you know the history of what she’s been having to go through and it’s the same as what i experienced that you know the court-appointed attorneys are working for the court and so they they have to support uh you know the the court energy of what they’re you know the movement that they’re moving into we’ve covered a lot of ground here today a lot of different stuff but all of it is your life and you are now and um there’s a lot i know that you guys are

01:09:13

going to probably want to listen to this again and again to get so much out of it because you’ve really expressed a lot of truths and i think people can feel a lot more comfortable and closer to concepts that you’ve brought forth you’ve been a very good spokesperson i bet you we want to hear your uh comments and things please um will you come back and talk with me i want to talk to you about absolutely well i want to get more more into really the community aspect of what the holy vortex is and really it is about um

01:09:52

establishing and networking in central communities and also um sovereignty is an important issue and that could be a we could have a whole segment on sovereignty issues and that you know we really do need to gain back our sovereignty personal personal sovereignty our god-given rights yeah absolutely yes so as you can see how we came together we came together with an intentional community that’s what happened the picture that i saw from your website triggered in me a picture of a building in maui

01:10:29

that i had envisioned another building and i think and suddenly i looked at this picture and i went well look at that and then i looked at your other picture you’ll see a picture on there about the the different chakras and the comfortable length the rainbow light singers and we were talking about the rainbow temple i have a picture in 1980 that’s great with multi levels and all kinds of things of a way of of building an education and living community that’s what’s really fun and i i think

01:11:00

that we’re very fortunate we’re on maui where this possibility not only exists absolutely i think it’s right on the green groundbreaking surgeons right now so why we want all of you out there to know and we want you involved with us and we aren’t us and the dream makers foundation isn’t just jason you see it’s it’s on us and the holy vortex foundation isn’t just jesse christian it’s in us this is our chance to be community this is our chance to grow there are

01:11:35

many other chances and people doing this but that’s what i want to talk about too but i thought it was important to go through a lot of this to number one i wanted to let people know that you do this watsu this awkward dance right here so that would be a really good entrance into this whole thing and you really enjoy seeing some of these books and i’m meeting a wonderful lady who has really a warm and loving spirit and um i think it’s a really good thing and that’s why i thought you should be on

01:12:09

our show so thank you for watching thank you for being here with me i i appreciate it absolutely yeah you’ve got my number you call me up but i’d love to do it and i love to share my stories i really do i feel like everybody has a message and we’re all messengers do you have an easy email for people to sense i do yes um it’s heartsong jaybird gmail.com h-e-a-r-t s-o-n-g j-b-i-r-d at gmail at gmail which emails podcasts that’s easy yeah okay and we’re gonna see here on the

01:12:49

screen one and you’ll see all kinds of stuff you know i have appreciated this time and i know we’ve been a little run on and we’ve been jumping subjects and stuff but there are a lot of people out there that now will look closely at who you are and i’m sure we’ll give you a warm reception here thank you for joining our community i appreciate it jason i really do i think you know when we work together for one purpose there is so much power it’s exponential and when two people come with the vision

01:13:22

you know it has to come into being god’s behind it and you do you can read that and it’s been a vision a joint vision it sounds like for many many years for both of us to bring this into permission and steven spielberg i’m picking on you only because you saw that we all have this years ago many of us have but you made a movie about it we welcome you to our community absolutely and everybody else and everybody who wants to join the community thank you aloha aloha you