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Jason Schwartz and Jim Kimmel speak about Urantia… -take 1 on 6-14-2012– starting to develop concept of live call in talk show about Urantia and Jason & Jim talking, plus DreamMakers Foundation, Maui Arts & Music Association, People Aligned in Positive Action, Urantia Book, Peace
Summary & Transcript Below
Jason Schwartz hosts a discussion with Jim Kimmel about The Urantia Book, a spiritually revelatory text which Jim has studied and frequently reads from. The book is described as a modern ethical revelation of God and man, akin to what Jesus represented in his time. It consists of four parts, covering cosmology, the local universe, history, and the life and teachings of Jesus. The book’s origin is extraordinary: it was authored by a commission of superhuman beings, including celestial personalities such as Melchizedeks and angels, who transmitted the material during 1934-1935 in Chicago. The identity of the human contact person in Chicago remains secret, and the method of transmission is unknown. The book presents a vast framework of the universe, divinity, and human purpose, challenging traditional religious narratives.
- [05:15 → 08:35] The Structure of the Universe According to The Urantia Book
The second part of the book deals with the “Local Universe,” explaining that our local universe, called Nevadon, is one among 100,000 local universes that constitute the Milky Way superuniverse. Each local universe is governed by a pair of creator beings—a father and a mother—with Michael of Nevadon (Jesus) as the creator father of our universe. The book describes three dimensions of reality: physical, mindal (mental), and spiritual. Beyond the inhabited grand universe, there exists uninhabited outer space, forming new universes. The scope is vast, encompassing multiple universes and dimensions, providing a cosmological model that integrates spirit and matter.
- [08:35 → 15:42] Personal Journey and The Urantia Book’s Role
Jim shares his personal story of rediscovering God after years as an atheist, disillusioned by institutional Christianity’s fear-based teachings. He emphasizes that the religion Jesus taught was a personal relationship with God, not institutional dogma. The Urantia Book offers a spiritual foundation that transcends traditional religions and addresses the division among faiths. It reveals that Jesus (also known as Michael) incarnated by choice in this universe and that God the Supreme is an evolving deity within time and space, which contrasts with static traditional views of God. The book introduces a fourth dimension—personality—that unifies the physical, mental, and spiritual realities. Part four of the book is dedicated entirely to Jesus’s life and teachings, highlighting its value as a manual for understanding spiritual life.
- [15:42 → 22:22] Mansion Worlds and Resurrection
The discussion touches on the concept of “Mansion Worlds,” where resurrected mortal survivors continue their lives with new bodies, retaining personality and individuality. This aligns with Jesus’s statement “In my Father’s house are many mansions,” and introduces ideas about post-mortal existence and soul development. The book’s teachings suggest continuity beyond physical death and a gradual evolution of the soul. Despite the profound insights, many Christians reject the book due to entrenched beliefs and fear of new revelations, equating them with deception or devilry. This resistance extends across religious lines, including Jewish communities.
- [22:22 → 31:00] Challenges of Acceptance and Religious Division
Jim explains that the initial rejection of Jesus by his contemporaries parallels modern rejection of The Urantia Book’s revelations. He notes that many Christians, Jews, and other religious groups are wary or hostile toward new spiritual truths that diverge from orthodox teachings. The book is often misunderstood or dismissed despite its depth and potential to unify spiritual understanding. Jim recounts efforts to share the book with Jews and Christians, often met with silence or resistance. The conversation reflects on how religious beliefs—often based on incomplete or misinterpreted scriptures—can cause division and conflict rather than unity.
The Urantia Book contains 2,097 pages divided into 197 “papers,” which can be read sequentially or selectively. Jim has read the book aloud in group sessions over several months, facilitating discussion and deeper understanding. The book is accessible online, complete with a comprehensive concordance (index), allowing readers to search for topics of interest easily. The conversation highlights the practical use of the book for study groups and individual exploration, emphasizing its role as a comprehensive spiritual manual.
- [38:58 → 47:58] Cosmology, History, and Religious Evolution
The book covers the evolution of religious concepts, including the development of monotheism among the Hebrews and other ancient peoples. It explains how early humans synthesized polytheistic beliefs into the worship of one supreme deity, with influences from figures such as Melchizedek. The text delves into the history and development of God concepts among Semitic peoples, providing a scholarly perspective that could intrigue religious scholars and seekers alike. The discussion expresses surprise that such profound material is not more widely embraced or studied by religious institutions.
- [47:58 → 53:41] Potential for Broader Cultural Impact
The hosts discuss the potential for The Urantia Book’s content to inspire films, television series, and other media projects. Jim mentions the idea of producing a multi-part cinematic portrayal of Jesus’s life based on the book’s teachings, contrasting it with less accurate portrayals like Mel Gibson’s film. The book’s narrative offers a rich scriptwriter’s dream with epic spiritual and cosmic themes. However, so far, no such projects have been initiated, though there is hope that future efforts could bring the book’s revelations to a broader audience.
- [53:41 → 56:00] Closing Remarks
The conversation ends with an invitation for further exploration and dialogue about The Urantia Book. The hosts express enthusiasm for continuing the conversation in future shows, including live call-ins that could deepen public understanding. They emphasize that truth brings light and clarity, and that open inquiry is essential for spiritual growth and healing the divisions caused by misunderstanding and dogma.
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- Key Points and Insights
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- Cosmology: The universe is structured into multiple levels—local universes, superuniverses, and the grand universe—with God residing at the center (Isle of Paradise).
- Jesus/Michael: Identified as the creator father of our local universe, incarnated by choice, and a central figure in spiritual evolution.
- Dimensions of Reality: Physical, mindal (mental), spiritual, plus a unique personality dimension that is the cause behind universe effects.
- Personal Spirituality: Emphasizes a personal relationship with God beyond institutional religion, which often causes division.
- Mansion Worlds: A post-mortal realm where resurrected beings continue their lives, supporting beliefs in continuity after death.
- Religious Critique: Traditional Christianity and other faiths often resist or reject new revelations, sometimes equating them with evil.
- Accessibility: The book is lengthy but can be studied in segments, with online availability and an extensive index enabling focused study.
- Religious History: Provides insight into the evolution of monotheism and religious ideas throughout ancient civilizations.
- Cultural Potential: Offers a rich narrative suitable for media adaptations, which could promote wider understanding and acceptance.
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- Conclusion
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This transcript provides a comprehensive overview of The Urantia Book’s teachings, cosmology, and spiritual philosophy, along with reflections on its reception and potential impact. It highlights the book’s role as a profound spiritual manual that challenges orthodox religious views and invites personal exploration of divinity, universe structure, and the life of Jesus. Despite resistance from established religious groups, the book continues to inspire seekers worldwide and offers a foundation for deeper spiritual understanding and unity.
This is my clapperboard. That’s our time signal. Okay. Three, two, one. Aloha. Aloha, everybody. I am here. I’m Jason Schwartz, and I have a guest. And this is Jim Kimmel, and he has a guest. I guess we decided to come together and do a television show where I interview someone who has spoken to you directly
00:30
But now this starts a question and answer kind of a program where I’ll be talking with you, and we can interchange, but also we were talking about rules of the show. One of the rules of our show is we want inquiry and input from you. If you have questions, what did you call it, Jim?
00:53
The way people ask questions? Oh, asking to receive, seeking to find. There you go. The law of the universe. The law of the universe, as biblical as it is. And we’re going to be talking about subjects. Many of you have seen Jim. You’ve been pretty well reading from a book, right? Yes, right. What is that book that you read from? The book I read from is the Urantia book. The Urantia book. That’s a well-viewed book. Wow.
And how did that come into being? There’s quite a story to this book. I could say this book is to our day and age what Jesus was for his day and age. That is, Jesus was an ethical revelation of God to man and for man. Okay. This book is an ethical revelation of God to man
01:48
as he lives now in the 20th century. And how did it get written? I know there’s a short version, sort of. Well, I don’t know of any short version. The book consists of four parts. Okay. The first part deals with the central and the super universes. And the central universe, right in the middle of which, is the Isle of Paradise. This is where God resides. It’s the geographic center of infinity. Okay.
02:19
And… Was this written by an individual, a human being? No, no, no. No humans wrote it. This book is a product of a truth-revealing commission. A truth-revealing commission made up of superhuman personalities of diverse celestial origins
02:50
of being, different orders of being, such as Melchizedeks and angels and material suns and those high authority and divine counselors. Anyhow, there’s some 24 authors to the book. They came to the planet in 1934 and 1935 in Chicago. I see. They transmitted the information that was in this book
03:20
How they did it is a mystery. Nobody really knows. There’s nobody alive anymore now that was in on the original contact of the superhuman rulers of the world with people in Chicago. A man by the name of Dr. Sadler, William S. Sadler, he was a psychiatrist in the early part of the 19th century.
03:50
and became the president of the American Psychiatric Association. And the person that is referred to in the book as the contact personality, whose identity has been kept secret, they had to swear to never identify the person, the people involved in the inner circle, so to speak, point of origin.
His identity has been preserved as far as I know. Nobody really knows who it was and it doesn’t really matter. What matters was that he was just naturally suited to serve the need having to do with infrastructure, let’s say, that has to do with transmitting information from a spiritual level of reality through the mindal and to the physical level of reality where
04:45
we can enjoy what’s invisible otherwise. This book, among other things, I guess you’d say, is a character that I would call Jesus, that you call Michael and Jesus? The same person. Okay. The reason I’m giving this introduction is I’m hoping you’ll pull out some of the key points that will let all you guys get a feeling for…
05:15
The incredible amount of information in here that lays a foundation pretty well for the life of Jesus before and after, is that right? Well, part two of the book is titled The Local Universe. And the local universe is where we’re sitting. We’re sitting in what is known as a local universe. And to put it in perspective, let’s say there’s 100,000 people
05:42
local universes that make up the whole Milky Way galactic star system. Okay. And each local universe has a pair of rulers, sovereigns, a creator father and a creator mother. And the creator father of our local universe is known as Michael
06:12
06:43
The dimension of mind is another dimension. It’s not like physical. It’s mind-al. So mind-al energy and mind-al reality is another dimension. And then purposeful or spiritual reality is another dimension. So these three dimensions cover all things, all meanings, and all values to a person.
07:12
So in our local universe, there are 100,000 in our Milky Way, and there are many universes like our Milky Way, right? Seven. There are seven? Seven super universes. And past that is infinity? No, past that is uninhabited space. Okay. The limits of the inhabited universe is known as the grand universe.
07:43
when you take into account the outer and uninhabited universes that are now forming by the millions. If you see all the galaxy photos of the Hubble telescope, it’s phenomenal. And so the book describes those are uninhabited creations in outer space, uninhabited outer space.
08:08
and they’re in the process of evolution, getting ready for the next universe phase of activity. So, I’m going to try to put this in perspective that our audience, you’ve heard Jim read regularly and probably, do you have the whole book already in tape? Yeah, I’ve got it all on DVD. Okay, alright. Well, and so,
08:35
09:04
inconsistencies that were in the Christian sect that I grew up in. The group I grew up in, the Assemblies of God, the teachers and the preachers and all the visiting ministers, they scared me out of believing in God. Yeah, they were so far off track. They weren’t representing Jesus. They were representing something that they believed about him.
09:35
They weren’t revealing the religion of Jesus. The religion of Jesus is not what all these Christians out there believe. They’ve got different, they’ve got their own religion. The religion of Jesus was his personal relationship with God within himself. There’s no higher religion than personal religion. Institutional religion
10:03
has brought us to where we’re at, a spiritually divided world. There isn’t a single church or faith that’s good enough for everybody. The Christians aren’t good enough for the Muslims, aren’t good enough for the Jews, aren’t good enough for… You dig what I’m saying? They’re divided because of the fact that…
10:32
Jesus was rejected 2,000 years ago. And the people of our planet haven’t the foggiest idea of what’s going on now, and they didn’t know what’s going on then. I mean, less than now by far. So… I’m trying to understand this if I can. Sure. So… I’m going to start from the beginning. We are one
11:01
local universe. We had Michael who incarnated by choice. He’s the sovereign. The sovereign creator of our universe. Of our universe. And the master. So in that the Christians were correct? In this universe he is the supreme being? No, he’s not the supreme being. He’s helping evolve
11:26
the Supreme Being, as you and I are as well. God the Supreme is the God of time and space in process of evolution. Evolutionary development. That’s quite a concept. God the Supreme is an evolving process of our… God of time and space. We have a finite origin. His level of deity has a finite origin. The Supreme is the maximum finite possibility.
11:57
Supreme level of reality is maximum possible. And here in the universe that exists for all of us, there are physical, mindal, and spiritual. Those three dimensions. Three dimensions. As they are unified and utilized by the fourth personality. The dimension of personality is a different dimension altogether.
12:25
Is there all that kind of stuff in here? Oh, yeah, sure. So it teaches about that? It just teaches everything about everything. When we were born, we didn’t know anything about everything. No manual. This is the manual? We didn’t know anything about everything. Think about it. We had no idea there’s an Indonesia verse when we come down the chute. Had no idea what we were poking our head out to.
12:52
13:23
All these other relativities, mind, spirit, matter, those are effects. Personality is the dimension of cause. The universe is an infinite effect of an infinite cause. And that’s the personality, which is…
13:50
Not really identified as the universe, is it? Well, it’s a living universe. It by itself is. The infinite creation is a super-living organism. It’s living, it’s not living, it’s an integrated whole. Where we would all say… What I’m going to is… So, the Christian doctrines that they’re sharing,
14:20
Truth in the words that were said by Jesus or not? Well, some are relative. Some are close, but most of it isn’t. There’s a lot of truth in the Bible, but there’s an awful lot of error and misinterpretation, misunderstanding. So this might help enhance a lover in Jesus’ understanding of their own, they call…
14:47
God the Father, Jesus, the Son of God, and we must go through Him, right? So are they going to drop that? Are they going to feel blasphemed through this? I’m curious how this all works together and the religiosity of it all. Well, it’s real easy at base level. Let me put it this way.
15:12
Part four of this book is the entire life and all the teachings of Jesus, which is phenomenal. Way back in the back end it says, of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it. So part four of the book is the life and teachings of Jesus. How many parts in the book? Four. Four parts. And I’m sure the print is small unless you get it on the internet, right? It’s available on the internet.
15:42
Oh, it’s readable. With glasses, of course. I don’t need them up close. I need glasses just to see beyond. Oh, I need them. I need them. We just happen to open this page up that says, The First Mansion World. On the mansion worlds, the resurrected mortal survivors resumed their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death. When you go from your ranches of the First Mansion World,
16:12
you will notice considerable change. But if you had come from a more normal and progressive sphere of time, you would hardly notice the difference except for the fact that you were in possession of a different body. The tabernacle of flesh and blood has been left behind on the world of nativity. Wow. Now, that’s in section what? Section what? That’s part two. Part two. It deals with the local universe. Page 532 of this book.
16:42
Now, that is a huge revelation. So, on the mansion worlds, we still have yet to understand what that means. Jesus said, in my Father’s house are many mansions. So, on the mansion worlds, the resurrected mortal survivors resume their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death. That’s a big line.
17:12
When you go from your rancher, now your rancher is Earth? That’s the name of this world. The name of this physical world? Mm-hmm. We call it Earth. Okay. So, when you go from your rancher to the first mentioned world, you will notice considerable change. But if you would come from a more normal and progressive sphere of time, you would hardly notice the difference except the fact that you are in possession of a different body. Right.
17:39
When Jesus walked down the road and the two brothers came upon him, or he came on the two brothers, he was in his new form, the super-physical form. He grew a soul just like we’re growing souls. And that’s what survives, and that’s what provides the form for the next level of existence. So just what we read here opens a gateway of knowledge, and someone that loves Jesus
18:06
would probably say, oh, I really want to read this book. You would think so. How has that been? Well, the Christians have become predisposed to reject anything that goes beyond or doesn’t exist within the confines of the Bible. They take anything new, new revelation, oh, the devil’s…
18:33
They’re devil worshipers in a lot of ways because they think the devil’s trying to screw everything up. It’s their thinking that’s got everything screwed up. Oh, I see. So they think that this is somehow the work of the devil? I had a Jesuit priest tell me one time after I gave him a copy back in, I don’t know, years ago, 1970 maybe,
18:57
His opinion was it was a masterpiece of the devil. That’s how far off base he was in his consciousness as a Jesuit priest. Now, I can see where people of different religions might have a little apprehension. Are they mentioned in here as well? Well, all the different religions?
19:27 
What I mean is, when you said that, if someone takes Jesus as their Savior, I would think they’d be the first ones to want to read this. They’re the last, brother. The Christians are the hardest people on earth that I’ve tried to share this book with for the last 40 years. Well, maybe we can make a difference here, because I think that the fact is… See, it’s all what you believe. If you believe a lot of things to be true that aren’t true…
19:57
And the Bible’s loaded with that. If you believe everything in the Bible is true, then you are setting yourself up for disappointment because it’s not true. There’s a lot of false truths in it. There’s a lot of lies. It’s just misinterpretations, misunderstandings. Does this share that in such a way that someone would understand that? How the Bible came into existence is all revealed in here, in part three. Part three is the history of it.
20:26
our world which is priceless Wow Wow the history of our world this book is better than any other is that blasphemy and not just a book of the history of our world well I mean why is it interpreted the way that because of a presentation of how someone is introduced to the book maybe how you react to you can scare yourself people scare themselves because they believe things might be coming from the devil it’s just that thought terrorizes a good Christian
20:56
People have read a history book. This is broken in four parts. When Jesus was here, he was exactly what this book is to our day and age. And they killed him. And this book has already been burned by people who truly believe they’re doing God’s service. See, it’s all not what you know.
21:26
It’s what you believe that determines conduct and determines personal performances. So if you’re void of facts and you believe 1500 Santa Claus stories, all different versions of Santa Claus, you’ve got an empty head and you don’t know it. And anything new that comes along tends to disturb your status quo.
21:52
You might have to admit you’ve been wrong all your life. How are you going to handle that? Well, I think the reason it’s such a foreign thing that you’re mentioning it to me is because from where I come from, I feel that this is only something that someone would devour in anticipation of finding out more about their local universe and the man that they so adore.
22:22
Absolutely. What do you think? I think the only way we’re going to know that… Jesus said the first will be last and the last will be… The first ones you’d expect to accept him, see, was the leaders of the people of his day. They were the last. They killed him. They should have been the first. Oh, my God, the promised son is here. The creator of the universe has finally made it. Oh, hey, what a different reaction.
22:52
But they believed. No, no, no. He’d come from a different… So did that just get passed on through generations, that disbelief? Other Jews… I mean, what about this? Has it brought this to the Jews? How many years have people believed in Santa Claus until they found out it was a false fact? I still think Santa Claus is real. Yeah, well, a lot of people do, but again…
23:15
That’s part of the superstition. So the Christians rejected it wholesale. And that’s not fair for every Christian. No, no. But a lot of them rejected because they might be blessed men. The hardest to… They’ve been the hardest to try to share new truth. Okay. How about the Jews? How are they doing? They’ve got a great fear also, but at the same time,
23:41
They love what they read. What about the Jews for Jesus? Are there a lot of Christians there? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I’ve tried. There’s a website, Brother Nathaniel, and he’s a Jewish Christian, and he’s an anti-Zionist. I mean, he’s a full-on anti-Zionist Jewish brother, Nathaniel.
24:11
I’ve sent him email after email, and my son has too, and he won’t have anything to do with it. The Jews for Jesus, they sent no, no way, oh no, no. Has any of this been put into motion picture form and stories? No, not yet. Okay. This is a script writer’s dream. I would think so. A script writer worth his salt could do that.
24:41
come up with the greatest movies ever made. I mean, I told Willie Nelson years ago, the life of Jesus should be made in three parts. I asked him, hey, Willie, you want to make a billion dollars? Because this is just after Mel Gibson came out with that terrible misrepresentation of Jesus in Christianity bullshit. I mean, it was terrible, and he made over half a billion dollars in that. Yeah, over half a billion. So I told Willie, you want to make a billion?
25:11
25:38
This provides the truth in all the teachings of Jesus that far transcend what the Christians have been able to discover through the writings of the scriptures. Well, I’m listening to you, and I think the reason I’m in such amazement… Now, I haven’t read it, right? It’s been around. It’s a lot to read. How many pages is this?
26:06
2097. 2097. Yeah. And how long has it taken you to read it to someone? Many hours? Well, on Molokai, on Kauai and Molokai years ago, we divided the year up into three parts. The first trimester, the second trimester, the third trimester. The first trimester we read parts one and two.
26:34
Take a break for a week or two. Come back, read part three in the second trimester, the history of the world. Take another break. Come back 10, 8, 10, 12 days. Start part four, the life and teachings of Jesus. And in that, by doing that, one paper a day, five days a week. One paper means one section. One chapter. There’s 197 chapters, papers they call them. I see.
27:03
So, reading it like that as a group, you can take a group of people through the book, starting in say early or mid January, you’ll be through the book by early December. Discussion groups come from that? Oh God, fabulous. The greatest times of my life have been the experiences on Kauai and Molokai and other places where
27:29
groups of people who have discovered this book are thrilled with it, and they’re just loaded with questions. I mean, it’s fabulous. It’s the greatest thing that ever happened to me, in terms of the discovery. So it’s like revelation, revelation, revelation, revelation, wow, wow, wow. It’s an epical revelation.
27:53
Jesus is the standard. He’s an everlasting revelation of God to man, whereby God had incarnated to become man to show what it’s like to be perfect. We can be perfect as he was perfect because we can make the same basic choices that he made to come out the way he came out. And we’ve all got the equivalent of a God gene and a Jesus gene.
28:35
which is pre-spiritual and pre-personal. It’s pure deity. God is deity. The Spirit of God in us is the presence of God. So that the real you, speaking to anybody out there, the real you is God. God within you.
29:01
So, without our realizing it or understanding it, we have gone through a process of getting born, you live a few years, and maybe about five or six years of age, you’ve grown up enough and you make your very first moral choice. At that point in any human being’s life, anywhere on the globe, God sends what His Spirit has known as a thought adjuster.
29:31
The thought adjuster is a fragment of the will of God. For all practical purposes, the thought adjuster is God to each and every one of us. Through Jesus? No, this is within the enshrouding presence of the spirit of Jesus, the spirit of truth. But the thought adjuster is the father of each person’s soul. I see.
30:00
the soul is born in the mind of each person that makes his free will moral choice. That’s done within oneself. Our first moral choice is made within ourselves and that marks the point of our birth and potentially the beginning of our eternal existence as a human, as a personality. So… Wow. So every…
30:31
person born is the beginning of a new personality that becomes part of an eternal, unique existence as part of the God, part of God. How did you get involved with something? I mean, I’m sitting here. When I think of it, remember this is a question and answer show, right? So notice how I ask questions.
31:00
uh… the book by itself obviously is deliverable but a lot of words so i can see where discussion groups with you would be credibly filled with questions and answers to questions good but i’m not doing a good football game well i’d like to sign up for that i think that like that doesn’t seem like it very interesting so what if someone wanted to set well look i’m a christian
31:28
Before I start learning about other universes, I want to know more about what do you say about Jesus? He’s my hero. My hero. So, could they start with a part three? They can start wherever they want. Okay. Is it a recommended or has that been tried as a way of getting people to look at it? I mean, you can open that book to any page and something will attract your attention.
31:58
You can look at the index. The index is 47 pages long. Just reading the titles of these papers is a revelation. And you cannot help but look at the names of the papers, one after the other, without sooner or later, I’ve got to look at this. What’s it saying? Because you’re going to find something that you think you know everything about, or close to it, you know. And check it out. Because…
32:27
Guaranteed, it’s the greatest discovery. How did you come upon this book? What launched you into looking at this? Well, that goes back to the spring of 1969. Okay. And in February of 1969, I had gone through an incredible experience.
32:57
I mean, it was like a total transformation from atheist to theist. I would argue with people there is no God. Always I would argue with anybody anywhere against the reality of God because, like I say, the Christians, what they taught me, if they were right, then everything I believed was wrong. And I didn’t want to buy their concepts of God. It was a God of fear.
33:26
Hell, fire, brimstone, that’s terrible. I would be swimming in my dad’s lakes out there in the farm, worrying about the end of the world coming because the lakes are going to turn to blood. Revelations say so. We’re talking about the religion of fear. And where does fear come from? Don’t people take it as…
33:52
the rivers are going to turn to blood as meaning that we’re going to be at war? No, no, just literally in the last days they were worried that the moon, the ocean, everything’s going to turn to blood. This is just some crazy superstitious belief. I think of this and I think to myself, now I’m a Jewish kid, so obviously I haven’t read the Bible to that degree that I can’t, even unless I’ve read a new abridged version, God knows, that’s what they believe?
34:22
They believe a lot of stuff. Listen, listen, listen. The very first book of Genesis was to say something about God created the heavens and the earth in seven days. Something like that. It’s not true. It’s not a fact. That’s a superstitious belief that comes from the mind of people years ago before they knew what we know today. What we understand today.
34:52
They were trying to explain the unexplainable in words that they could understand, not the people 2,000 years later. A little further it says something about Eve. How’d she come into it? Somebody lost her rib? Well, it’s all superstitious belief. It’s not factual at all. It’s a misrepresentation of reality.
But if you believe it’s a fact, you’ll die for it, you’ll fight for it. Look at the Christians today, right now as we speak. They’re doing to other people in other sections of the world what they would never want done to themselves or their country or their people. They’re killing them. They’re hunting and killing the sons and daughters of God. And they don’t know what they’re doing. They believe what they’re doing is right.
35:49
But then they have the problem of discovering, hey, that they’re wrong. And then what do you do? A lot of them commit suicide. A high military suicide rate. Big time. When you do to others what you wouldn’t want done to you, and that’s some pretty extreme stuff. How do you live with yourself? Once you come to realize you were wrong, what are you going to do?
36:21
hit the bottle what are you gonna do when you realize holy shit man I did all that and I mean I’ve talked with a lot of brothers and sisters who have gone to hell literally and found out that that was the wrong place to go and then they were fearful that God wouldn’t forgive them for what they did and I’m trying to tell them look at God love
36:54
and considers you to be of infinite value well you know you did wrong and you accept that and you admit it and God forgives you for that because you have to be able to love yourself and that includes forgiving yourself and never do it again because you’ve been forgiven and you’ll know that as you forgive your other brothers and sisters as you go from day to day
37:22
God has forgiven all of us before we’ve even thought of asking for forgiveness. His infinite love is so great and so good that forgiveness is inevitable, unless you reject it. Now, in what you’ve said, me, in preserving,
37:39
Isn’t that the message that Christians talk about, God through Jesus? The answer is yes. So then, is it just hypocrisy? I’m just saying, this is an upgrade, but that just means the world is living in total hypocrisy. Obviously. I’m only bringing it up because we have an audience here. You know what makes a show? What’s that?
38:04
an audience. So, when we do this and we’re talking now, we’re talking about subjects that demand. I mean, obviously there are people out there that want to ask questions. And so, what’s probably going to evolve from this will be you and I doing some shows about this, and then might be a live call-in talk show. That’d be fun. That’d be a lot of fun. Well, not only would it be fun, think of how much good we can do. That’s what’s fun.
38:33
There’s nothing more fun than sharing what God has given us to share with one another because it’s just beautiful. So we might find that churches are sponsoring. Different people would sponsor this kind of show because this show, I mean, I know you’ve said they’ve stayed away. You talk about the Jews. I’m Jewish, and I grew up thinking that…
38:58
where God’s chosen people. Chosen for what? I still don’t exactly know. There’s a good one. The chosen people doctrine or belief. In here? Oh, it’s all in here. The origin of all the things that is part of our history. Have you ever taken like the chosen people doctrine and sent it to Jews? Yeah, I have. What kind of reaction do you get? I don’t get it. Nobody ever replies. What if we did shows like that? We took some of these pieces and
39:28
Not only did we share what they mean, and people can read it by themselves, but the conversations people could have about this could be enlightening to a lot of people. It could be. It would be, no question about it, because truth is about light. Truth is light, and the more you get, the lighter it becomes. Speaking on, sort of, I don’t know what made me think, I think it was the chicken crowing. I thought of Willie Nelson again. Okay. Now…
39:58
You did a thing that I listened to. It had the war prayer from Mark Twain on it. That’s a great, isn’t that a great poem? Which is, if you haven’t visited or revisited that one, that’s worth it. And the first song is called Jimmy’s Road. Jimmy’s Road. What did you think of that? Well, you know, I looked at it and I thought, this looks like Vietnam Memorial.
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And people dying. And little Jimmy who used to play. And now Jimmy’s dead. Yeah. He’s become a soldier. He became a soldier. And there’s a white cross on the ground where he used to play. I wonder how people… Sad, sad, sad, sad, sad. What else was on there? On Jimmy’s road? On that disc. Oh, um… Whatever happened to…
40:59
Peace on Earth. And that’s a poem? That’s a poem I wrote on Christmas Day, oh, four or five years ago, I forget when it was. He called me one day and he said, I just wrote this poem about world peace and I was thinking about you. So he called me and he read it to me over the phone. And I said, oh man, that’s powerful. That’s powerful. Mind if we include that on this? Not at all.
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maybe we’re going to ask Willie again if he wants to help us get the production of the life of Jesus in fact maybe we’ll talk about it together that seems like an interesting project especially in the world that it is now I mean how much God timing is there to do things maybe that’s what it’s been waiting for I’ll tell you this I feel I’m in a race and have been in a race to save the human race for a long time
41:59
I mean, when I was going to Ohio State, at the height of my years as an atheist, I mean, I didn’t believe in God, that’s the most, I mean, the fact of God is like, the fundamental fact of all creation is the sovereignty of God. Okay, so, by my throwing out the baby with the bathwater when I was, you know, about 12, 13,
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I made the biggest mistake in my life, but it took me to discover the truth in my life, the spirit of the Prince of Peace, the spirit of the sovereign creator of our universe, the spirit of Jesus, the spirit of truth. The spirit of truth led me away from, let’s say,
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the dangers of getting trapped in the gauntlets of Christianity or institutional religion. It’s a trap for a lot of people because unfortunately they believe all things in the Bible to be true and it isn’t, so they end up with polluted minds if they read carefully. If you believe fiction to be reality, you’ve got yourself twisted around a little bit. You don’t know.
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When you’re crazy, you don’t know you’re crazy. That’s the sad part, isn’t it? In today’s world, it’s the dangerous part of reality. Well, I’m very turned on by this. Just before we even talk about different parts of the book, I think that discussion about the book should create people… I guess they can buy the book, right? Yes, online even. They can see it online. All books online. With a concordance. Right?
43:51
Yeah, yeah. We’ll go in there with him. Excuse me, I’ve got a scratch in my head. I’m sorry. But a concordance, for those of you that don’t know, means something that references where in the book things are. Whatever subject you’re interested in, there’s an alphabetical… Sort of like a Google search. Just for example, if you wanted to know what Jesus thought about the Bible or the Scriptures…
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You look under Jesus in A through Z and get to Scriptures. And you come out to 1767. Here’s a talk with Nathanael relative to Nathanael’s asking Jesus, Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings, the best as I view it.
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And I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the scriptures? When Jesus heard the question of his devoted apostle, he answered, and there’s his answer.
45:09
Well, you know, I would think that, like I say, remember when Flash Gordon was on TV years ago? And you get to the end of the series and you go, you leave him up there, what’s going to happen to old Mel? Well, that’s what you just did right here. You just said, well, so what does Jesus say about the Scriptures? And then, and then, that is what I think will be…
45:39
a really good tool for us. Now, we may tell you what it says, but you can look it up on the Internet. What is this? This is the talk with Nathaniel. Okay? It’s chapter one, paper 159. Paper 159, section four. See, now, what’s nice about the days of the Internet and this being on the Internet… Yeah.
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that people can go and look at that and go, wow. They don’t have to go through a 2,097-page book to say, wow. So this is part three. So it’s like, yes, it isn’t the Bible, but the Bible is a collection of books. You’re saying that the Christians would think that this isn’t worth reading, even if they’re reading it as fiction and just thought, wow, that’s great. I mean…
46:38
Well… I just don’t understand. I guess what I don’t understand is why wouldn’t Jews and Christians and Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus and all the religions that I’m not mentioning now want to see something like this? Does Urantia have a lot of people that are reading it? All over the world. In many different languages. Millions of people? No. Well, by now, probably.
47:06
Okay. But no one’s put it into any kind of movies? Not yet. No. Not yet. Not yet? Not yet, bro. Okay, all producers out there and writers, we’re going to have a contest, okay? And we’re going to find ways, not only are we going to find ways to fund it, there are going to be people that are going to come and say, well, that’s a great story.
47:30
And they may come to us and hire the writers and put together the talent and do it. That would be a great thing. Yeah, sure. Okay. So, now, see, you turn the page. So you’re going to have to go and look at paper number, what paper ever that was, and find out about Jesus’ talk with Nathaniel to discover what Jesus thought of the Scriptures. Right, exactly.
47:58
See that now? To me, that’s what television is all about. These are called cliffhangers. You know, it’s not always the… We’re creating action scenes where you want to know what’s going on. When I was a kid, I watched Dynasty. And I was always curious to see what was going to happen between Blake and Alexis. Were they going to fight? All those shows. But now we’ve got… What’s this?
48:28
This is a little flyer, Discover the Urantia Book. And it’s got all the titles. It’s the whole table of contents. It’s got just the titles of the papers. See, for example, here now, Paper 96, God of the Hebrews. And Paper 97, Evolution of the God Concept Among the Hebrews.
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So now that’s a revelation to all the Jews of their origin. What was the number of that? Ninety-seven. Ninety-six and ninety-seven. Ninety-seven. Evolution of the God concept among the Hebrews. Here we go. So here’s the Yahweh, paper 96, Yahweh, God of the Hebrews. Let me see how much time we have. Yeah. Bright a little bit.
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We’ve got another ten minutes before we break off this time. There are still things yet to be discovered. We brought them up. I mean, we didn’t bring them up. You just flipped the page and we came upon a subject that clearly you’d think, boy, people would want to read this book. What I’ve found is that all of my life the spirit of truth in me has been revealing truth to me in response to my hunger for and discovery of
49:47
The more facts I discovered, the more truth was revealed to me. I didn’t know I had a spirit of truth in me. I didn’t know I was a sinner. I didn’t know I was a sinner, God. I had the foggiest idea, especially as an atheist. I was looking for facts. So you were a scientist. A scientist. I was a scientist. I was searching for truth about everything. I wanted to know the facts of life. I’ve been taught all the lies.
50:14
that I was taught by people putting me on or misteaching me intentionally or, you know, believing they’re doing a good thing. Jump in here. Yahweh, God of the Hebrews. What do you want to show us? Wow. Well, it’s just the first sentence. In conceiving of deity, man first includes all gods.
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then subordinates all foreign gods to his tribal deity, and finally excludes all but the one God of final and supreme value. The Jews synthesized all gods into their more subtle, sublime concept of the Lord God of Israel. Which is the supreme God. That’s right. When it says synthesized all gods into the…
51:03
into their sublime concept of the Lord God of Israel. So that’s just a… There was a lot of gods in existence in those days, a lot of false gods. I see. A lot of tribal gods. I got it. Okay.
51:19
The Hindus likewise combined their multifarious deities into the one spirituality of the gods portrayed in the Rig Veda, while the Mesopotamians reduced their gods to the more centralized concept of Belmarduk. These ideas of monotheism matured all over the world not long after the appearance of Makaventa Melchizedek at Salem in Palestine. Salem became Jerusalem. Jerusalem, right.
51:48
But the Melchizedek concept of deity was unlike that of the evolutionary philosophy of inclusion, subordination, and exclusion. It was based exclusively on creative power and very soon influenced the highest deity concepts of Mesopotamia, India, and Egypt. So then it gets into the deity concepts among the Semites. Well, that’s interesting. I would think that
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religious scholars the world over. But be thrilled to discover this. That’s what I don’t understand. If they ever allow themselves to discover it, that’s what they would. Anybody with a good mind, curious spirit, hey, it’s the greatest discovery one can make. It’s got more in this book, brother, than any good, the best of the five-year colleges on earth. There’s more here than there is in any of them.
52:45
This is the I-got-light-in-my-eyes bridge. Well, you know, I think we’ve got something here. I think, for example, people could ask a question. It could result in taking out a paper. We don’t have to read them the paper. We just talk about the paper and have people read about it. It’s about the submitting peoples, the matchless Moses.
53:11
The beginning of the evolution of the Hebraic concepts and ideals of a supreme creator dates from the departure of the Semites from Egypt under that great leader, teacher, and organizer, Moses. There we go. So they talk about the scriptures, talking about Moses. Excuse the interruption.
53:41
Oh, there you are.
