KURT BUTLER – MOST HATED MAN ON MAUI?

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Jason Schwartz with KURT BUTLER, a guest on the show Mar 4, 2019, is a writer and author of investigative analysis of alternative medicine practices. Self described as “possibly The Most hated man on Maui… in light of COVID19 as a public menace, Kurt had a lot to say. 4-6-20

Summary & Transcript Below

• [00:00 → 01:40]
  Introduction and Context Setting
  Jason Schwartz opens the program from Maui, representing the Dream Makers Foundation and Maui Arts and Music Association. The episode is conducted via Zoom, reflecting the new norms of remote interaction. Jason introduces his guest, Kurt Butler, who has been on the show before and is recognized as a consumer advocate primarily focused on health-related scams, especially amplified during the COVID-19 pandemic. Kurt is described as a self-motivated activist concerned about consumer protection and misinformation.

• [01:40 → 05:25]
  Kurt Butler’s Role and Consumer Health Advocacy
• Kurt Butler confirms his role as a consumer advocate focused on health, medical, and nutritional scams.
• He highlights that COVID-19 has intensified scam activities, with many false claims targeting vulnerable consumers.
• Jason and Kurt discuss the lack of trust in state and federal governments to protect consumers from misleading health products.
• Kurt explains that many companies make unsupported health claims to sell products, often backed by anecdotal or unreliable “studies” (e.g., testimonials or uncontrolled small sample tests).
• They discuss the common practice of returning “new products” instead of refunds, which may mislead consumers.

• [05:25 → 09:18]
  Example of Unregulated Products and Lack of Oversight
• Kurt shares an anecdote about products sold in small cans resembling chewing tobacco containers, claiming to cure bacterial and viral infections.
• These products are locally made in kitchens or garages, lacking proper FDA approval, standard labeling, or sanitation guarantees.
• Kurt sent letters to the State Department of Health and the governor’s office questioning the legitimacy and safety of these products and their manufacturing processes.
• The government agencies ignored repeated inquiries, reflecting a serious gap in consumer protection.
• Kurt contrasts this with a food truck case where a dog contaminating food prep was quickly addressed by health inspectors, implying drug and health product oversight is far weaker than food safety enforcement.

• [09:18 → 15:15]
  Government Inaction and Consumer Protection Failures
• Kurt emphasizes the lack of response from health authorities despite multiple attempts over months, possibly due to understaffing or lack of priority.
• He references specific individuals involved in questionable health product claims, such as Dennis and Mona Jones, who promote vitamins and herbs as cures for serious illnesses like cancer without credentials or scientific backing.
• Kurt criticizes the head of the Maui Department of Health, Dr. Pang, for endorsing conspiracy theories (e.g., chemtrails), which undermines confidence in the agency’s capacity or willingness to regulate health claims properly.
• Kurt is particularly concerned about false claims that vitamins or herbal products can completely cure viral infections like COVID-19, a claim unsupported by decades of medical research.

• [15:15 → 20:58]
  The Danger of Misinformation and Anti-Vaccine Sentiment
• Kurt stresses the danger of anti-vaccine misinformation, citing the example of Samoa’s measles outbreak due to vaccine hesitancy, which led to hundreds of cases and deaths.
• He labels vaccines as one of the greatest public health achievements, including vaccines that prevent cancer (e.g., Hepatitis B vaccine preventing liver cancer).
• Kurt maintains that misinformation regarding vaccines and cures is deadly, and he promotes fact-based knowledge through resources such as killerlies.blogspot.com.
• Jason praises Kurt’s clear and measured approach despite some labeling him “radical,” noting Kurt’s commitment to evidence and rational dialogue.

• [20:58 → 27:12]
  Frustration with Authorities and Theories on Government Passivity
• Kurt describes sending a final letter to the Department of Health stating he would start marketing a fictitious “Aunty COVID-19 cure” to test government response; he received no reply, reinforcing the perception of regulatory indifference.
• He speculates that as long as companies pay taxes, government agencies may be reluctant to intervene to protect consumers from scams, equating it to a “protection racket.”
• Kurt expresses a broader concern about societal morality and systemic failure where agencies and individuals avoid responsibility, passing the buck rather than solving problems.
• Jason and Kurt discuss how false claims about vitamins or supplements are pervasive, with sellers often lacking credible evidence or scientific support but believing in their products nonetheless.

• [27:12 → 33:55]
  Chiropractic Claims and Health Misrepresentations
• Kurt and Jason discuss the problematic claims made by some chiropractors that spinal manipulation can boost the immune system or prevent COVID-19 infection.
• Kurt firmly states these claims are 100% false and misleading, although he acknowledges some chiropractors offer legitimate pain relief similar to physical therapy.
• Kurt suggests chiropractic colleges should be closed, and practitioners retrained as physical therapists, reflecting his skepticism of the profession’s broader health claims.
• Jason and Kurt agree that not all chiropractors are fraudulent, but the promotion of unproven immune-boosting treatments during a pandemic is dangerous misinformation.
• Kurt shares his Twitter handle (@MauiLiberty) as a platform where he actively counters false health claims and misinformation.

• [33:55 → 39:03]
  Skepticism Toward Energetic Healing and Alternative Medicine
• Jason asks Kurt about his views on energetic bodies, mind-body connections, and alternative medical theories such as German New Medicine, which connects trauma to physical illness via the autonomic nervous system.
• Kurt expresses some openness to alternative perspectives if they are backed by concrete, testable evidence, but remains cautious.
• He stresses the importance of scientific validation and controlled studies for any health claims, distinguishing between anecdotal or spiritual beliefs and medical facts.

• [39:03 → 40:26]
  Acupuncture Skepticism
• Kurt critiques acupuncture, stating that no acupuncture points or meridians have ever been scientifically identified or measured, despite advanced technology like electron microscopes.
• He points out that even within acupuncture circles, there is disagreement about the number and location of points, implying a lack of consistent scientific basis.
• Kurt emphasizes that modern Chinese scientists largely reject the traditional acupuncture model as myth, underscoring his view that acupuncture’s efficacy is unproven.

• [40:26 → 43:01]
  Program Sponsorship and Closing Remarks
• Jason acknowledges sponsors such as Maui Arts and Music Association and Dream Makers Foundation, highlighting their long-standing support of sustainability and community efforts on Maui.
• The show invites public service announcements and community involvement.
• Jason thanks Kurt Butler for his participation and encourages viewers to explore Kurt’s websites and works, emphasizing the value of diverse viewpoints and critical thinking in consumer protection and health information.

1. 1. 1. Key Insights and Themes

• Consumer advocacy in health is critical, especially during crises like COVID-19, to combat misinformation and scams.
• Government agencies may be inadequately staffed or reluctant to enforce health product regulations, enabling dangerous products to reach consumers.
• False health claims, particularly those promising cures for serious diseases or viral infections, pose serious public health risks.
• Anti-vaccine misinformation has deadly consequences and undermines decades of public health progress.
• Some alternative health claims, including immune-boosting chiropractic adjustments and unproven supplements, lack scientific evidence and can mislead vulnerable populations.
• Skepticism is warranted toward traditional alternative medicine claims (e.g., acupuncture points, energetic healing) when lacking scientific validation.
• Open dialogue and evidence-based inquiry are necessary to protect consumers and support public health.

1. 1. 1. Quantitative/Comparative Table: Regulatory Responses

Terminology and Definitions

Summary

This interview with Kurt Butler on Maui’s Neutral Zone program exposes critical gaps in consumer protection related to health products during the COVID-19 pandemic. Kurt highlights the proliferation of unregulated and falsely advertised health remedies, the failure of local health authorities to respond to consumer concerns, and the dangerous spread of misinformation, particularly anti-vaccine propaganda. The discussion extends to skepticism about chiropractic claims for immune support, acupuncture’s scientific validity, and broader issues of regulatory neglect and societal morality. Kurt advocates for rigorous evidence-based scrutiny of health claims and transparent government oversight to safeguard public health, emphasizing the need for informed consumer vigilance in a complex and often misleading health marketplace.

Transcript

00:00

[Music] [Music] [Music] no doubt made a few the car his hand [Music] please leave you but what good morning Aloha this is Jason Schwartz from Maui I am here in the studio’s of the dream makers foundation Mama and Papa that’s me Maui Arts and Music Association people aligned in positive action we are home recording this is my home and office and I have guests that have cordially come to my home through the medium of zoom and zoom has an option where we can record it and so for now this format you

01:40

see is the new world that we’re gonna live in and so let me introduce you to a wonderful guest today I have Kurt Butler Kurt Butler has been on our show before how long has it been now Kurt year and a half maybe almost year for a month and for a long time keeps running away when last we were speaking I think I introduced you as an activist and a self-generated activist someone who’s a concerned citizen who cares about himself and others and has been in dialogue both through the media and

02:22

through the powers that be like the state and the feds and local whatever to get clarification on subject of labeling and the idea that many things out there are a sham but someone wants to make a buck and they’re putting things out there am I in the right vicinity yeah I’m a consumer advocate mostly in the health field there are a lot of health and medical and nutrition scams out there and at this time with this kovin 19 crisis we have these scammers are all the more active and so I feel that this is a good to remind

03:17

people that they cannot rely on the government to protect them either the state or federal government your sound is going in and we’ll see if I can it’s just that your sound quality on a Wi-Fi cable or what is your connection cable I’m on Wi-Fi so a mine okay well somewhere in our signal we’re not using telephone anyway okay so anyway so you’re saying that trusting the state government in the federal government is like someone saying oh yes we are here for your best interests and later to

04:08

discover that it was either self-interest or no interest and just wanted you to go away and so you’re really not doing the job of protecting the consumers because these people are out there saying look we have these pills we’re passionate about them this that and the other thing do this that and the other thing for you and we want your money and even though we’ll give you your money back you won’t want your money back but then later you might discover there there are they’re not there

04:46

they’ll give you your money back no no no they’ll give you a new product so and there’s all kinds of people that legitimately back up with their do but you’re aware a lot I’ve seen you very visible that you’re aware that there are a lot of scammers out there and a lot of companies even the vitamin companies and things some of them make direct claims some of those claims I I know from my own research have sort of testing and then some of those testings is you know yeah Mickey and Minnie and

05:25

goofy we had these people and this is what happened to them or some of them said oh no no we’ve documented and the difference in this is because now we have 20 people ten didn’t get it ten did in other words you watching I know I’m talking a lot you need to jump in because I’ll just keep talking let me start with an anecdote that spark my most recent interest at certain craft fairs and small stores I would see these products in these ten these little cans that look like chewing tobacco cans and

06:20

then there were little flyers that go with them and the Flyers say that the these products are effective against a wide range of health issues and I was most concerned and I saw the claim that these products were effective against bacterial and viral infections and I noticed that there these are locally made they’re apparently made in someone’s kitchen or garage there was no kind of the kind of labeling you see on most products that if you go into so-called health food store it says on the label exactly what’s in it and that

07:24

the FDA has not approved that this product is not inspected and sozin nothing like that it just says that it’s a effective for these and therefore internal use or you can rub them on your skin so I wrote a letter to the State Department of Health and a copy to the governor’s office with a copy of this flyer and then I said here is this product making his claims can the consumer rely on the accuracy of these claims are the manufacturing facilities inspected in any way is the Sanitation guaranteed they’re there you know all

08:27

the usual things that consumer would want to know if someone’s make any viral and bacterial infections can kill you so if someone is just selling these things and they’re rather expensive actually you’d want to know that there is some kind of government inspection I mean the government inspects the kitchens for these food trucks you know the food trucks have to be inspected by the farm and they have to get a pass and so you’d think that for drugs there would be at least that much of government keeping

09:18

tabs on what’s going on okay so yeah I saw I sent a letter to the winners office and to the Department of Health the the same letter with the same flyer and I asked them I asked them a bunch of questions about this kind of stuff and they just ignore me so a month later to do it again and they ignore me to it again and again and they just completely and so it’s it’s a matter of we don’t have any consumer protection from did you call them no I don’t follow with me but I get no reply to those

10:19

either as a blind guy I’m trying to think of the viewer busy you’re the Department of Health and you have eight workers I’m making it up but let’s not this doesn’t condone it it basically says aren’t we understaffed it seems to me that no response from a government agency on repeated attempts through conventional sources that they provide email and phone that’s why I’m asking because I have problems like this in different areas trying to help people that are homeless or a struggling or the

11:05

police did this or did that to them are any we live in quite a world here and I can’t acknowledge well let me tell you about a kind of a somewhat related experience showing the vaguely different standard when it comes to foods and drugs I noticed that this one food truck had a little dog Organa and this dog would run around in the food truck it would go outside it would go back in it would jump up on the tool your food prep was going on and when I reported that to the health department they got on it

11:59

and you know within days that problem was solved you never saw that dog at food truck again well why are drugs held to a different standard you would think that drugs claiming to be what getting cures for bacterial and viral infections would be even much more stringently controlled no question and suave what what is what is ignore me and so I you know I thought about it why do they do this why don’t they care and and sure they may be busy they may not have a lot of people their office but given that

12:51

they’ve had months and months you know you think it at least call me or write me and say we’re looking into it but now they just completely ignore me and and I’ve had a similar problem with a so-called health food store I call it a health fraud or were these people claim that their vitamins and herbs can cure everything anything that that ails you and that they’ll name the diseases that they’ll say that that we have products that will cure against stage four cancers that these people have no

13:40

credentials in any health related field all day man well second because I know them a long time Dennis and Mona Jones you’re talking about alive and well right yeah so like they were students or whatever they were students of but not nutritional medicine at a level that meets your scrutiny so let’s say I’m using them as a great example because has anyone ever asked them that you can’t make claims about things how does it what’s happened oh I challenge them for years and have any authorities given

14:25

them I contact the authorities I’ll contact the head of the head of the local to Maui Department of Health dr. pang and he’s kind of a crackpot as far as doctors go he believes in the Kim trends you know this chemtrail conspiracy theory about I mean that this is just jet exhaust as all it is but he thinks that there that there’s some nefarious entity out there that is spraying chemicals on us there so no matter what I look at that whether or not there’s some nefarious group or whether it’s just the back of a donkey

15:15

up there or a train or a plane I’m most concerned about this is a health so if the silver or whatever nitrate in the sky and that’s all here and there that’s all science I hope hopefully science-based maybe he throws his weight around as the head of the Department of Health and you could probably ask him to cite more specifically but he must have some reason but again whether he does or he doesn’t still doesn’t get down to what you said to me that’s why I’m bringing it up which is if the people

15:57

are alive and well are claiming these things about vitamins how are they supporting it and that piece is a good piece because that’s the piece that can make to get you satisfaction and maybe they can still sell the same stuff but support it in a way that is blocked they even claim that they can they even claim that they that their products can cure a which is a very very funny well they claim that they that they have a product that will totally wipe up the virus from your body now that’s been a holy grail

16:39

of the medical profession in that area for decades ever since the epidemic started and there there has never been there may be one case of the millions of cases reported their medications actually cleared the virus from a body and now they’re saying that there are herbs can do that I mean it is just so preposterous and what you’re open are you open to to seeing results right I mean I’m sure that your cards if they really have put together disinvited vitamins and earth to do that they could win a Nobel Prize

17:30

well I’m asking it this way because to me sounds like as a citizen and as a concern consumer you know after a while when you start talking about things that are quote they’re controversial because they challenged things the way they go on you can get a reputation I know I people say Jason’s angry he is irrational I don’t hear the word irrational but that’s why I’m talking to you in the measured way that I am Kurt because I’ve always found you to be very clear about what you’re asking for

18:09

and if I if I think that raise from the sky Q or something I may tell you what I alleged but I don’t tell you it’s fact your concern is that someone’s telling you and not supporting it and there’s crackpots out there that are taking stricted am i right I hope that’s what I’m saying yes what their their vehemently anti-vaccine which is a very dangerous thing to be these days I mean vaccines are one of the greatest public health triumphs in the history of humanity with Wyatt

18:55

supplied smallpox off the face of the earth there are much lower incidence of wide range of killer diseases vaccines are actually anti-cancer vaccines for example the hepatitis B vaccine is an instance of a cancer vaccine because most people who get hepatitis B end up with liver cancer so people who get to have B vaccine they’re preventing liver cancer when the anti-vaccine people managed to persuade the population Samoa that the measles vaccine was terrible well we ended up with hundreds of cases

19:55

of measles and 200 children died so this kind of misinformation is really killer misinformation and I think of me Lanisha let me show this is a wet little website blog killer lies dot blog spot.com as a lot more digitized killer lies lies so you forgot the yes what ethics it to her lies oh sorry ok we’ll we’ll put that one at the bottom she under now we have this new thing called our lies dot block and it has a lot more detail than we can cover in this short interview well well first of all I want to thank

20:58

you for realizing the interview is short we still have a bunch more time I’m fooling in the same breath the truth is what I am well the reason that I speak to you so comfortably over these years is I’ve had a lot of people say to me because you’ve been doing this for a while that this guy is radical whenever I speak to you I don’t hear radical I hear clear and yeah I know Dennison moon I like Dennison Moniz people and when I ask them about things I ask those harder questions of them like do you have any

21:41

facts that show this I don’t have myself and a health thing but people that are in health thing need to get the source of information and you’d hope that backstop was the Department of Health so that’s one area that you’ve shared with me you have questions big questions about the follow-through the Department of Health on the most significant area going on which to me is what you’re taking in our way different than other things that they check on the dog in the food truck that they got but checking to

22:18

see if this accusation or this claim that vitamin a ten thousand milligrams a day coupled with chlorophyll and three drops of this will make your stomach better and you’d like to see that some more on that when I write what you’re saying well let me just tell you yeah let me just say one brief kind of that whole story at when I gave up on the Department of Health I sent him one last letter I said since you apparently have no objection to this kind of people making drugs in their garages or their

22:59

kitchen I am going to cook up a batch of aunty Ovid 19 kir and I’m going to start marketing it in this state and they had happily again no reply they have no restrictions here what enough favor Cheers so what what here you are you create your own tins and you say you know kovat solutions and you have them available with a flyer if someone came to them with that maybe they think it’s more important because people are dying they heard the word kovat in it but if if it was a flyer that had an angel on it and

23:48

beautiful colors and they talked about vitamin Z with a you know to the 12th power they wouldn’t dress it because it’s over their head not in their jurisdiction I think that’s the biggest thing going on that the buck gets passed in our current situation now I don’t want to say who’s to blame they’re all to blame but the biggest thing is people don’t know and pass the ball pass the buck the Chinese did it the French did it that’s because we didn’t close this who cares

24:27

what are we gonna do to solve the problem and if you’re gonna sell me lotions and potions to solve this problem you would like them to stand up and do their part of checking what is being sold on the market why didn’t I how long ago was this Kurt oh my last letter to them was maybe three weeks ago but you know it’s gone it it’s gone over three or four months where I’ve sent letters and they haven’t replied but I have a theory about why they won’t do anything about these

25:04

things today RM damn as long as people pay their taxes it’s like you know the state gets its cut and this the taxes help pay for their salaries so they’re not going to do anything to hinder the income the state taxes if if is so it’s sort of like a protection racket as long as you pay you and we’re gonna let you run this scam I don’t know how else to say it the way I see it is I hear the echo there that’s the nature of man and woman sadly it’s the morality piece now we have a problem with them it’s so

26:02

pervasive in our society and the way people are with each other and it’s the whole policy by that it’s like a being who says well why should I take care of this it’s gonna eliminate the need for my job it’s like when you go to the airliner there’s this thing that says well why don’t you do your ticket at this machine hey you guys are pushing us to use this machine that’s eliminating your job now we don’t need anyone to stand back there now now you got to be home with your kids but we’re not gonna

26:39

pay you anymore because we have a computer that replaced you so by we were able to lower our healthcare costs and you had pre-existing conditions by not but if you go to that store they’ll tell you take this and take that and they’re trying to make money and they think that their information is good enough for them and I’m not saying that I believe they actually believe what they say I don’t think that they’re thinking like I’m talking Dennis and Mona by example but they think that they’re

27:12

trying to hurt anyone but they don’t support it enough to be able to like you say to make you satisfied that they’re supporting it with truth and that these advertisements need to be clearer when I talk to my own and have another guest avid you know dr. Doug price he met him I mentioned you to him yesterday and I told them there’s a gentleman that comes on his name is Kurt Butler you’re a doctor he deals with this guy scaler and I’m you know I’m talking about studying modalities

27:56

different things but even in that lieutenant doctor a lot of people are calling in those doctor and they have this is a chiropractor forty years he’s been a chiropractor I know others that deal with different technologies like I don’t think chiropractor it should be should legally be able to call themselves doctors I crack knuckles is this is this gonna improve and cracking my knuckles there are all these ads and tweets on online now where these chiropractors are saying never mind the social distancing

28:41

necessities come into our office and I get these final installations to boost your immune system is he yeah it’s not a word of truth to it well again first of all you and I would agree that one chiropractor doing that number one it isn’t all of them and many would say to that guy or gal what are you doing why are you getting close to people create the distance here what’s with you we’re gonna give you a five thousand dollar ticket a day I’m making up but there but you’re saying that there are claims that

29:22

back manipulation is going to improve your immune system enough for you to feel stronger than God when you’re out there and prevent confident in that is the implication that’s why there’s I have that you saw that that is horrible if that’s how I’ll go on Twitter there’s a lot of them well so 180th if you want and if you if you want my gift a Twitter account this is my handle at Maui liberty did you have a good account and you want to see where I’m saying on Twitter I have thousands of tweets and

30:02

replies to other people’s alright you can put it down because I’m gonna be putting it remember our screen we’re looking at right under you it’s gonna say Kurt Butler and you’ll tell me what email addresses you want it and then at Miley Liberty and that other killer lies but the only way we can get this information out is what we’re doing some people might say but this guy he was accusing all chiropractors of being hoaxsters know that’s why I’m measuring what you’re saying because I don’t want

30:37

people to think that I don’t think it’s fair to them or you especially when I have I’ve seen that you are only asking for things that you believe truly will be protecting you respond and you punch a lot well when people are pummeling you on social media I can’t help but think you gotta get a little crusty on it and before there was social media when you have the one-on-one confrontations can an odd confrontation about important issues are confrontational what if I have hundreds of followers on Twitter and a lot of

31:18

friends a lot of people who agree with me I understand that’s why I’m bringing it up in such a hopefully a good way because I like you I appreciate what you’re doing I can have friends that are Dennison motive Jones I see once in a while when I go in to buy something there I have no problem but when I see claims going on I myself know that I’ve been involved in in marketing things and when people put out things that aren’t true it upsets me sets me in my life and career where I’ve left more than one

31:53

more than 10 companies because there are shad they put out a lot of bull and they think that there is no problem with that when in fact there is a problem with that now again I don’t want to get too personal but when I was doing the sale of real estate education and told people this information doesn’t walk on its own you have to do something with information you’re not buying a program some people were selling a program and acting as if they were Realtors and knew what they were doing that was a problem

32:31

and then the Realtors who wanted to be involved didn’t know squat about real estate that whole thing or Donald Trump putting his name out there before he was Donald Trump the president and he was the you’re fired queen whatever his show was I’m just bringing it up that’s the world we live in Kurt and I only hope they run make a quick comment about chiropractors people don’t get the wrong idea sure yeah I think I all what kind of names that their spinal manipulations can help with any kind of systemic

33:12

disease any kind of disease of any organ these claims are totally 100% false however I’m not saying that chiropractors never Purdue anybody any good but the good that they do is mostly in the in the area of relieving pain and the good that they do is really not very different from the good that physical therapists do and if I had my way all the chiropractic colleges would be closed down practice would be retrained to be physical therapists sometimes in my understanding and experience over the years of knowing

33:55

I know chiropractors for years I don’t have much physical pain and I haven’t gone to chiropractors for a relief of pain but I have a friend for example who after working for so many years in manipulation of bodies for physical pain thing there’s this device that would get into certain key points that would allow again it can be tested and shown maybe you have or haven’t seen allow the energy to flow it will be measured oh come on again you see that person chiropractors are forgetting about the

34:38

autonomic nervous system this is a string of nerves that run alongside the spine that are where to keep chiropractors pay no attention to these are the nerves that actually influence modulate the functioning of the oil the spinal nerves only modulate the function of the muscular skeletal system have nothing to do internal organs you and I right now and like on the bottles we’re what’s called fake news to me which means you can tell me that and if someone’s listening certain and that

35:19

sounded really convincing you and I are like Dennis and Mona but in a different direction so I say Anatomy anybody can pick like for example when I have physical pain do you believe again believe not from the hocus-pocus do you believe that there are other kinds of energetic bodies there or a brain which is controlled by a psyche and emotion do you have any feeling for that I don’t really know what I mean is for example I listen to a lecture by a lady named Carol and Marklin who is a PhD in

36:08

Germany who’s been studying and working with a doctor in Norway for many years named dr. hamer who died in 2007 there’s a thing called new German medicine or German new medicine that proposes that and again they have studies that’s what I say I think that’s the part that’s interesting to me that share that they can track major illnesses and activity as it related to a psychic DJ what do we call it a death conflict trauma that affects and is controlled by a certain area of the brain and that brain

36:55

connects to through the automatic node of the nervous system to the physical body so that relief of that trauma can create healing now those are those are the kind of things that add what I want to say in testing I don’t know how what controls are but those are the kind of claims may be a little different because you’re talking about a pill and a potion but those kind of claims this guy I was a chiropractor has studied that’s why I’m talking about energetic and other systems or the

37:32

Chinese medicine where when you talk to a doctor in China and he tells you about occupancy points as they treat with with conventional Western things in different ways than you and I maybe have experienced maybe you have but I’m watching and learning that there’s so much that we don’t know so I’m open to it and but I like to really see it in a more concrete way well let me tell you something about acupuncture and in all of the countries that it has supposedly existed or that it has been

38:11

practiced in China there is an urban no one has ever found an acupuncture point it has never been proved that an acupuncture point or an acupuncture for in exists we have instruments now we have electron microscopes that can see that can photograph in dual molecules and even atoms and yet no one has ever photographed an acupuncture point or an acupuncture Meridian no one has ever measured or proved that the so-called chi or key exists it has find that hard to believe I could bring it up acupuncturist themselves disagree about

39:03

how many acupuncture points there are and where they are exactly you can find in anatomy in real enemy and and by the way the Chinese are very good at real science and and most of them do not accept ancient myth of these acupuncture points also then totally ignore it this is a holiday I’m gonna stop because I want to continue one lemon let me quickly take a break if you have to take a break those we’re running on I need to leave a little bit of room that we right back in a second well we’re talking

39:46

about with Kirk Butler Kirk Butler is a consumer advocate here on Maui talking abou talking about among other things we were talking about whether acupuncture points exist in whatever well we’ll be right back after we visit with our sponsors zone with me Jason Schwartz would like to thank Maui Arts and Music Association three makers Foundation of Maui for their support since 1991 the hundreds of television shows and their Maui arts and music comm website they have champion self sustainability on Maui the neutral

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zone is heard live Mondays at 11:00 a.m. have replayed Saturday at 7 a.m. on kak u 88.5 FM the voice of Maui the neutral zone with me Jason Schwartz would like to sincerely thank David Bryan for his support David was founder and head of school at new Road School in Santa Monica California and as the board chair at the Ojai Foundation and on the board for brave new films the neutral zone is heard live Mondays at 11:00 a.m. here on kak u 88.5 FM the voice of maui and again on saturdays at 7 a.m. as well as

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on TV and on Maui neutral zone dot-com do you have a non-profit event coming up that you would like the public to know about is there an important social issue for each would like to raise awareness I think you can help you get the word out you can come in and record a one-minute public service announcement for the subject of your choice at no cost to you slots are available Mondays and Wednesdays between 1 and 3 remember it’s free so call eight seven one five five five four and reserve your spot today

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man do I love card nights you ready boys you got a king Superstar titus o’neil it only takes a moment to make a moment take time to be a dad today learn more at 877 for dad for 1-1 or visit fatherhood.gov brought to you by the US Department of Health and Human Services in the Ad Council loja I’m a Mora st. John inviting you to join me every Friday at 11 a.m. will now be talking story to some very gutsy women women going for their dreams women who have children and grandchildren and the wisdom of the ages women who are

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courageous and filled with spirit that’s gutsy women radio Fridays at 11 a.m. and replays on Saturdays at 2:00 p.m. here on kak you radio 88.5 FM Kurt hit a button and somehow the whole thing stopped so I just want to make an ending I want to thank her brother for joining us today on the show you know we have a lot of people on the show and we like to bring all kinds of viewpoints and all kinds of people take a look at some of his websites and his ideas and his theories and who he is in his books and

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we hope that you’ll check in on all that we do here we have a lot of interesting guests a lot of interesting subjects that may well very well relate to your life I hope you stay safe I’m Jason Schwartz it’s in Maui neutral zone Aloha and see you next time [Music]