Jason Schwartz interviews LAMA LODRO of Karme Ling Monastery in Delhi, NY, 2009
Summary & Transcript
[00:01 → 02:25]
Introduction to the Karme Ling Retreat Center and the Three-Year Retreat
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The Karme LingRetreat Center in Delhi, New York, is a Tibetan Buddhist retreat facility linked to the Karma Kagyu lineage, where practitioners engage in intensive retreats.
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The center hosts a traditional three-year, three-month retreat, a long-term practice period. Currently, 15 people are in retreat, which started November 1, 2004, and ends February 2008.
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The retreat participants remain inside a fenced compound to minimize distractions and fully commit to their practice. No visitors enter, and retreatants do not leave the enclosed area.
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The duration relates to the biological cycle of body cell renewal—by the end, the body is physically different, symbolizing deep transformation.
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Most participants have prior experience with Buddhism, though exceptions exist (e.g., a woman in her late 20s started practicing two to three years before entering retreat). Men and women retreat separately in different buildings.
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[02:25 → 05:54]
Key Figures and Lineage Overview -
Lama Karma Lodro is the retreat master at Karme Ling, an accomplished lama who was Abbot of the main monastery in Woodstock, New York—the North American seat of the Karma Kagyu lineage.
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Born in Tibet, he entered monastic life at 12, completed his own three-year retreat, and became tutor to the previous Karmapa, who is the head of the Karma Kagyu lineage.
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The Karmapa lineage is distinct from the Dalai Lama lineage; both are important Tibetan Buddhist traditions but represent different schools.
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The Karmapa is considered the first recognized reincarnate lama in Tibet. Each Karmapa remembers previous lives and writes a letter or poem predicting details of their next incarnation, enabling followers to identify the new Karmapa.
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The current (17th) Karmapa is 22 years old and famously escaped Tibet at age 15, eluding Chinese security checkpoints to reach India, where he could connect with traditional teachers.
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[05:54 → 10:35]
Tibetan Buddhist Schools and Karma Kagyu Lineage -
Tibetan Buddhism comprises four main schools or lineages, somewhat analogous to Christian denominations, differing mainly in teaching methods and emphasis on study versus meditation.
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The oldest school is the Nyingma (“the old ones”), representing original teachings brought to Tibet by Guru Rinpoche (Padmasambhava).
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The newer schools include Kagyu, Sakya, and Gelug (the Dalai Lama’s lineage).
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The Karma Kagyu lineage maintains a presence in Woodstock, New York, from which the Karme Ling Retreat Center operates.
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The retreat master at Karme Ling, Karma Lhro, oversees retreats and provides teachings, which are transmitted personally rather than solely from texts, emphasizing a living, experiential lineage.
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The teachings from the most recent three-year retreat have been meticulously recorded, transcribed, and translated into Tibetan, English, and Chinese, serving as a commentary and foundation for retreats worldwide.
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[10:35 → 14:24]
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While the three-year retreat is traditional in Karma Kagyu, some sub-schools like the Dunkagyu practice even longer retreats lasting nine years, reflecting a phased approach to learning, practicing, and perfecting meditation.
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This rigorous commitment reflects a profound deepening of understanding and appreciation of Buddhism over many years.
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[14:24 → 21:16]
Defining Buddhism and Personal Motivation for Practice -
Buddhism is based on the teachings of the historical Buddha, who lived about 2,500 years ago. He sought to understand and alleviate suffering through insight and meditation.
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Enlightenment involves a non-conceptual understanding of the nature of reality, akin to firsthand experience of a taste no words can fully describe.
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The speaker shares a personal journey: moving from a life of conventional goals (e.g., marriage, work) to seeking a purpose centered on benefiting all sentient beings.
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They recognized that superficial acts of kindness often do not alleviate deeper suffering, prompting them to pursue Buddhism seriously.
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Buddhism’s concept of reincarnation involves rebirth in various forms based on karma, emphasizing continuity of consciousness and ethical cause and effect.
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Many Western Buddhists feel drawn to the tradition due to karmic connections from past lives. The speaker completed the three-year retreat before becoming retreat manager as a fulfillment of earlier aspirations.
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[21:16 → 28:56]
Community Life at the Retreat Center and Recognition of the Karmapa -
The retreat center community is welcoming and open, involving visitors in prayers and teachings in a warm environment.
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There is an ongoing effort to raise awareness and support for the Karmapa, who is actively building a presence in the U.S. and is gaining recognition, especially among younger practitioners.
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The Karmapa is not only a spiritual leader but also an artist and musician, balancing traditional prayer responsibilities with modern expressions.
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His role is to maintain the lineage connection to the original Buddha, providing teachings and practices that sustain their tradition.
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The Karma Kagyu lineage includes 17 successive Karmapas, each considered the same enlightened being reborn, with teachings and texts authored by various Karmapas throughout history.
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The retreat master, Karma Lhro, was the tutor to the previous Karmapa, similar to the role he now has with the present Karmapa as a spiritual guide and mentor.
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[28:56 → 32:04]
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Websites provide information about the Karma Kagyu lineage and its institutions:
| kagyud.org | North American seat of His Holiness the Karmapa, Woodstock, NY |
| rmtekr.org | Seat of the Karmapa in India with photos and updates (travel restricted due to politics) |
| Karme Ling Retreat Center info can be found via links on kagyud.org, but the exact location is not publicly disclosed to protect retreat privacy | -
The retreat center discourages casual visitors to maintain the sanctity and focus of the retreat environment.
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[32:04 → 39:34]
Daily Life, Meditation Practice, and Mental Training -
Participants renounce worldly distractions—no magazines, TV, or newspapers; radio is minimal and often ignored.
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The focus is on self-improvement and mental training to prepare for helping all beings.
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Meditation aims to develop one-pointed concentration, initially difficult as thoughts flood the mind like a waterfall.
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Over time, meditation deepens until there is a blissful gap between thoughts, described metaphorically as a smooth stream entering the ocean without a ripple.
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Practitioners learn to observe thoughts as passing phenomena, gaining insight into the nature of mind and reality.
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This mental training cultivates tranquility and equanimity, especially evident during crises (e.g., 9/11), when the community prayed impartially for victims and perpetrators alike.
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[39:34 → 41:30 (end)]
Ethical Foundations: The Five Poisons and Motivation -
Buddhist ethics focus on overcoming the five poisons that cause suffering:
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Attachment
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Aversion
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Ignorance
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Pride
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Jealousy
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These poisons drive conflict, suffering, and confusion.
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The path emphasizes balancing awareness and motivation:
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Actions motivated by selfishness lead to future suffering.
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Actions motivated by compassion and benefit for all beings lead to genuine happiness and liberation.
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The practice integrates both inner transformation and outward care for others, rooted in the understanding of karma and countless past lives shared with all sentient beings.
Key Insights
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Three-year retreat is a profound traditional practice involving complete physical and mental transformation.
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The Karmapa lineage is a distinct and historically significant Tibetan Buddhist tradition with a living, reincarnate head.
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Tibetan Buddhism’s diversity includes multiple schools with varying emphases, but all share core teachings of the Buddha.
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Meditation practice is rigorous, aiming to develop deep concentration and insight into the nature of mind.
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Ethical practice and motivation are central, with the purpose of benefiting all sentient beings.
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The retreat center balances strict renunciation with warmth and community openness.
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The current Karmapa is a young, dynamic figure working to expand the lineage’s presence globally.
Summary Table: Tibetan Buddhist Schools and Characteristics
| School (Lineage) | Approximate Age | Emphasis | Notable Features | Relation to Karmapa |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nyingma (Old Ones) | Oldest | Original teachings, emphasis on early transmission | Founded by Guru Rinpoche | Separate lineage |
| Kagyu (including Karma Kagyu) | Newer | Meditation, practice-based | Karmapa lineage | Karmapa is head |
| Sakya | Newer | Study and scholarship | Known for academic rigor | Separate lineage |
| Gelug (Dalai Lama) | Newest | Study and monastic discipline | Dalai Lama lineage | Separate lineage |
Important Terms
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Karmapa: Reincarnate lama, head of Karma Kagyu lineage, “Man of Action.”
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Three-year retreat: Intensive meditative retreat lasting three years and three months.
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Five Poisons: Mental afflictions causing suffering—attachment, aversion, ignorance, pride, jealousy.
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Lineage: Transmission of teachings and realizations from master to student, ensuring authenticity.
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Meditation: Mental training to develop concentration and insight into the nature of mind.
This summary captures the key information and context about the Tibetan Buddhist retreat, the Karma Kagyu lineage, meditation practice, and ethical foundations as presented in the video transcript.
00:01
Aloha welcome to another Mama presents today I have a great pleasure for all of you and for me normally I’m on Maui but I’ve had the opportunity to go to Delhi New York to The Karme Ling Retreat Center many of you uh have seen that we have a Dharma Center on Maui in Paia on Baldwin Avenue and um I am now here with Lama Lodro, yes yes and um he’s been generous enough to give us some time to sit and talk um this Retreat Center here is just that it’s a retreat center where
00:49
people that are uh practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism come to retreat how does does that work well it was originally founded uh for the traditional three year Retreat so that the the U we have at the moment 15 people doing the long-term retreat they went into Retreat uh the 1 of November in 2004 and the end of February of 2008 they Wille in the meantime they will um see only one another there’s a 10-ft fence that goes around the building um and they don’t go outside that fence nobody else comes
01:40
in and I guess that’s so that they can really embrace the practice it’s to reduce distraction so uh the the time period has to do with uh the different cycles of the body in the course of three years and three months um every cell in the body has been um replaced so when you come out you’ve actually um are physically a different person than one in but uh more sign but it’s a more significantly it’s a um a chunk of time to um traditional chunk of time to uh dedicate to this kind of
02:25
activity I see well that takes a serious commitment so uh do you find that most of the people that go into this activity have been practicing Buddhism for a long time before they go in most of them but not in all cases we have one woman in Retreat now that’s actually in her um late 20s and she only began practicing two or three years before coming and doing the three-year Retreat W and so men are in one one facility right men in one building women in another and uh we have a I would say a very famous and very accomplished ret
03:12
here let me have you share yeah uh karur R was the he the Abbot of of katrian dakra which is the main Monastery in Woodstock New York the seed of his Holiness Karmapa um in North America um is the retreat Master here he’s in his mid 80s was born in a uh Yakir tent um on the plains of uh K in um in Tibet now part of China of course and uh entered entered the monastery of trango mon trango r at the age of 12 and um after doing retreat and um his own threee Retreat and studying in the monastic College uh he was asked to be the tutor
04:11
for trango ret and um so he traveled with him and um studied with him um and Trang is uh currently the um holding the same position with the uh 17th car arapa so he’s sort of the Kapa tutor’s tutor I don’t know if um all of you are familiar with the karmapa um why don’t you give us a bit of an idea because I know I never understood that the Dalai Lama and the karmapa were separate lineages I want to compare it with um Protestant and um Methodist in other words a SE the same Buddhism but different
05:01
lines that’s true uh the Kapa was actually the first recognized uh incarnate llama in Tibet in a way began the tradition uh the first kop was Duan Kempa which um in tibetan means nor of the three times because uh he basically he remembers his previous lives and he knows his future lives so before he dies he writes a a letter most often a poem the first kop was Duan Kempa which um in tibetan means nor of the three times because uh he basically he remembers his previous lives and he knows his future lives so before he dies
05:54
he writes a a letter most often a poem that describes when and where he will be be will be born and who his parents are wow so it it’s sometimes a little difficult to understand because it’s uh um you know the the method will be Logan and the um wisdom will be that which represent the mother and father but um when interpreted um one can go uh follow the directions and find The Reincarnation of the Kapa that way this is the 17th Kapa uh who is 22 at the moment in um 2000 when we were all celebrating the
06:41
turn of the Millennium he um told the uh people at his Monastery um outside of Lassa that he was going to do a um weeklong Retreat and in the middle of the night he uh jumped out his window on to the kitchen roof and from there down to the ground and they uh took off ac across Tibet for two days um skirting around security checkpoints and all that until they got to a a spot on the edge of the Himalayas and then he walked out of Tibet wow so at the age of 15 so that he could he did this because uh he was unable to go and
07:27
see his traditional teachers were all in India and they weren’t allowed to come to see him and so I’m going to try to put it together so I remember 1959 something like that that’s when the Dalai Lama who was the sitting ruler of Tibet the head of the Tibetan government okay and also the um senior most blama um in hierarchy wise and all of to that yeah the Dal Lama left in 1959 the 16th carapa the previous Kapa um had already left to bet by that time I see and so the karmapa is this I don’t want to say the
08:20
spiritual head someone was explaining the Buddha line I’m I’m not exactly understanding but I’m trying I’m really doing this for uh for your benefit to to understand because like when we’re on Maui and we have a Dharma Center I don’t know if anyone has really thought oh this is of this line or that line you well in in Tibetan Buddhism there are four General um lineages or schools of Buddhism like you said somewhat like different denominations of Christianity or something on this order I see um the
08:56
overall meaning is the same the difference is the method of teaching um method of teaching and um the emphasis um in some school in some schools the emphasis is on study and others on meditation they not to say that that they don’t all meditate and they don’t all study but some put more emphasis in one place or the other the um original um originally when Buddhism came came uh it was uh brought by um P PMA Baba known as Guru Rush um after several a 100 years later a Tibetan King came who
09:46
attempted to suppress Buddhism and bring the native religion he was eventually assassinated and Buddhism was um sort of revitalized but that original group um forms the nigma uh lineage which means the old ones the the original teachings as they came and then among the newer Traditions um is the uh the kagu uh the Sakia and the newest of them the glupa and the glupa is the uh the Dal Lama lineage I see so I mean I’ve see in uh here in Maui or in Maui I can say here in Maui but I’m not in Maui I’m here that’s a whole
10:35
other story for another day um so the karmapa and the lineage of the karmapa have a center in Woodstock New York yes and from Woodstock New York there’s a retreat center here in delh high New York which is an hour and a half away and um the rachet is here and kind of oversees the Retreats um he he’s the retreat Master which means that he would um give all of the teachings um there are a lot of different practices that are done and the examination of the meaning of those practice and how they’re done um needs
11:28
to come from somebody who’s already done it the the concept of lineage is really that the information and the in some cases the realization but that is transmitted from one person to the next um they say it’s like um pouring one PCT a picture of water from uh from one picture into another picture so um teaching by not really from a book but from an individual to an individual is it written down I mean is that um yeah he’s actually often teaching from a book um in our case um [Music]
12:12
r on the we we’re currently in the fourth three-year Retreat on the second Retreat uh he decided to to do everything in great de detail and get the best translator because ker and pet um speaks a little bit of English but not much so we brought in the best translator and we actually videotaped all of the teachings for the threeyear retreat I see and those tapes are now being watched by um other Retreat other Retreats two our Retreats have watched those they are uh the the TR they have been transcribed and those transcripts have
12:55
in turn been um sent um over sees the original Ker’s original teachings have been transcribed in tibetan for the monks in India and Nepal um there is a a pro a program right now to translate all of it into Chinese for um the Chinese retreats in fact he went to such detail that it’s now sort of the uh becoming the um the commentary is the basis of information for Retreats around the world I see wow and um would this kind of a retreat be similar to what would be done in other lineages or no um similar they would do
13:43
different practices but it would be similar um uh there is the uh another another lineage the dun kagu which is a different you know sub School within the kagu that is said to do nine-year retreats because they feel it takes three years to learn how to do Retreat three years to learn the practices and then an additional three years to actually perform the practices so that would be in Retreat for nine years the uh wow that’s a little bit beyond my uh I can’t almost comprehend taking nine
14:24
years of your life but it’s really a deepening in the understanding and appreciation of Buddhism and is there an easy definition for what Buddhism is I don’t know how many people some people know but how many of you really understand you know like you’re you were American right and yet here you are fully practicing llama and how maybe you can give me some idea of it both of what Buddhism is and then maybe how it attracted you and what God got you into this well Buddhism is it’s uh I’m not sure if I can come up
15:04
with a good definition of it okay um but um obviously it’s the um the teachings that are uh that came from the Buddha who was uh an actual person who lived 2500 years ago um became disenchanted with um with the world and with with the suffering in the world and that um he felt there must be some way to alleviate the suffering to get Beyond it and he he practiced very very practiced in very different ways until he um sat down under the bodh tree in bodaya India and decided that he would remain
15:54
on that seat until he became enlightened and um in the early Dawn um it happened he became enlightened which is to say that um uh he understood his um he understood the um the nature of everything it came to uh understand um the um he said to be omnicient to know um the variety of things and the qualities of all things but in a non-conceptual way um the actual um in a way it’s like somebody who’s never um tasted anything sweet in their life and somebody’s trying to describe it to them ultimately the only
16:52
way to understand it is to do it to taste something like that in the same way with Buddhism you actually have to do it in my case I was um getting sort of um tired of working I felt I’d take the uh winter off and go skiing but uh um I never actually went skiing because I realized that I was going to use a ball of my savings and I began to realize that I wanted to take more time off than that so I sort of think in my mind it was the first time that I retired and as I thought I recogniz you know for years my goal in life was you
17:40
know I figured I’ll get married and then things happen or something well I never seemed to be getting married or even particularly doing much about it so I decided I needed a new goal and then about this time i’ started reading um different religions and I decided that that if I had a goal in life it should be to benefit all sentient beings benefit people but then I said but how you know somebody comes up to you on the street and they say um somebody stole my wallet I need $145 to um get home on the
18:20
train very specific so you give them a dollar and a half or something you walk down the the street you turn around and he’s talking to some somebody else giving them the same line You’ never really you haven’t helped anybody um or have you you know it’s if you give money to an alcoholic what is he going to do you know so I I recognized that um I could do things on the surface maybe give something give something to somebody I mean I started giving blood because I figured blood was would be
18:55
useful in any way but I wanted to find out find some way that I could tell how I could actually be helpful to people and that’s when I became a Buddhist and you know some people say Well then why didn’t you just become a a priest or a Christian or Judaism or whatever something about it actually obviously struck a cord well in in my survey of different religions reading as much as possible I could sort of source books I like I read the the Bible and the Quran at the same time and then I read the da
19:39
and then something else I was reading um Buddhism was what make made the most sense to me it was somehow it um I connected with it uh the the Buddhists believe in reincarnation that um after you die you will be reborn in some fashion um someplace else not necessarily this world maybe a different world a different Universe not necessarily as human you could be re reborn as a snail or or almost anything but the the general feeling is that for particular people in the west who find Buddhism it’s so unlikely that we become
20:28
Buddhists that probably were um Buddhists in the past um so um I did the three-year Retreat here before I um became the manager and I my my feeling is that the reason um I wanted to do that was that in previous lives I had you know made aspirations and sort of dedicated myself to do it sometime in some life and this is the time that um the Carmen ripened and I became um did the three-year Retreat I see so I think that pretty pretty well I understand I you know I mean some of us it gets to be a confusion because
21:16
sometimes we see people out there doing namoh Q there’s that group and sooka gagay these are all different forms different lines of Buddhism right that’s correct from I’ve been here now a few days now obviously I’m not in the retreat I’m in the what do we call this this is the Llama house right right and uh I want you to know I’ve had a really wonderful time here I have really found that everyone here has really just opened up their heart and been really open and accepting of me and and uh
21:54
shared with me different aspects of what’s going on I’ve had the opportunity be uh involved in in some of the uh prayers that are going on and things and want to do more and really have appreciated that time here um I know that probably people don’t know and I’m bringing it up probably for a reason and that is that the the karmapa really they’re trying to build a facility here for him to visit and maybe stay here in the United States possibly right and when we see the Dalai Lama I don’t know if people
22:36
really understand that all the giving that goes on around the Dal Lama has nothing to do with giving as it relates to the karmapa so uh maybe we can I guess Kindle uh an energy and an effort for people to be aware of the karmapa and see what we might do to to uh be helpful to bring more to light his teachings now he’s 22 years old someone said he’s becoming sort of like a rock star which is funny I guess he writes music and has done some really great music and uh I saw that he’s really also an artist very
23:18
talented guy and he also is doing all the prayers that right he’s doing all these prayers that I see you and the others here doing that’s a very full life um what is his role really I mean as the leader of this lineage he is the um in a way our our connection to the uh um original Buddha it’s through the kopa that one that we are connected to him um the um everything that everything that happens in our lineage is a result of his activity ity kopa actually means Man of Action and so uh the
24:08
um when um you know when the karma when the first karmapa um studied and um became a teacher uh he went and established a monastery called seru which is outside of Lassa and began teaching and his style of teaching um the prayers that he wrote um formed the basis of um the karma kagu there’s actually um 12 different originally 12 different subsect of of the kagu but the karma kagu is the one we’re part of so Tibet was um at that time um very isolated from the world and isolated from itself
24:57
so then every region um there would be a monastery and a l or a teacher and monks and uh each in each area they grew up um the the practices grew up a little bit different but the thread that tied many of them together was the the monastery that the monks came from that started the new monasteries or whatever so that the the the Kama the Kapa is in a way the Common Thread to all of our practices he’s also um in many cases written the um written the texts practices that we do the um the books
25:42
that we study um but remembering that um there have been 17 of them um so different chopus wrote different things and it’s um indeed considered it he’s considered to be the the same person coming back and and again I’m this I’m just pulling from what I’m understanding uh Kempo rishe is a teacher of the karmapa how does that not really not really um he was uh there are uh what are known as um incarnate llamas like the Kapa um teachers who are said to have um come back in most cases in fact they don’t
26:33
remember anything of previous lives and they um will basically say um I’m told by people that I respect that I’m this The Reincarnation of this person so I will accept that but you know I don’t see it myself something in that order um but with one of these um the the tlos are um extra extraordinary beings in most cases and to ensure that the toou sort of um lives up to his potential they they had the tradition of putting a um you know a monk with a Brant mind or a sharp mind somebody who’s really to to
27:21
um you know to Spur to to press him to um um make him live up so that he would live up to his potential and that was Ker’s relationship to Trang now when the Kapa made it out of Tibet um the first place he went was to daram Salah to see the Dal Lama and the Dal Lama at that point asked Trang who was then the um senior teacher of the of the lineage to be the Kapa tutor to in fact do the same sort of thing that um kerop did so he’s not a teacher of the Kapa he’s indeed um met the Kapa
28:11
um at least once back when he was first discovered at the age of uh seven in Tibet R was there um I’m not sure that R’s been because because R’s age he doesn’t travel too much he probably hasn’t seen the Kapa in person since then but uh we’re hoping to hoping that the Kapa will come to the US um maybe next year oh great well you know I I could go on probably if someone wanted to get more in touch with this information and with the organization any couple of websites we might uh give to them you may see them
28:56
at the bottom of the screen we going to put them up yeah um the website for um the his Holiness and seat in North America is um KAG you.org k a yu. g okay and that’s the Woodstock location that’s the wood Woodstock um uh location there’s another one which is room Tech R mte k.org which is his um seat in India which also has um pictures um pictures and information on the goings on at that Monastery though the kop himself hasn’t actually been able to go there yet due to Indian politics or something politics we’ve
29:49
heard of that huh and what about here there’s a website also for here uh Karme Ling doesn’t have a a website okay we have uh if you look if you look at the right place you can find um a web page for us at uh on cag.org for car Ling which is uh which explains the center and they have a few pictures since we’re Retreat Center we don’t really want um visitors so we um the website the the one thing that isn’t in the website is exactly where we are oh I’m not telling you know we’ve had a couple of days here
30:32
and I’ve really gotten to know you personally and uh I’m besides finding you to be extremely charming and a a great host uh you’ve had so many fun stories um do you have any things that might be different than amusing that you might want to share with these people that be just sort of a different aspect of things cuz um things aren’t always exactly prim and proper I mean I’m sure there’s more relaxing times yeah yeah um I mean I I just have found uh everyone here seems to have such a light
31:13
and happy heart it’s really been a really exciting experience I I never would have thought that coming here to a retreat center you know and just spending the time with with you and the others here would be such a beautiful and satisfying break from uh my regular Pace you know well uh what it really is is that we have um renounced most of um most of the world in a way very we have um no magazines no ra uh we have no television um um coverage I think we can get a ra get we get get a radio station
32:04
or two but I don’t listen to the radio no newspapers so we don’t really know you know we don’t really know what’s going on in the world um we know in general what’s going on in the world we’re concentrating more on uh improving ourselves training our minds uh to uh so that we can be in a position to um help all beings um in a way uh the the person who is most sane at carel Ling is ret and the rest of it you know the rest of us are still having our uh um our little psych our own little psychosis
32:52
and um catching yourselves on things you know I’m constantly sort of um Can constantly catching myself doing um silly thing but uh a lot of it I think has to do with um I like to think of it as not thinking so much because with meditation uh what you’re really doing is trying to concentrate on one thing develop the one-pointed concentration leaving um all the other thoughts out and at first it’s it’s like a um waterfall you’re not you you one thought doesn’t even come to an
33:44
end before the next one begins yeah one thought tumbling over the other and as one continues to um meditate in this case um one would probably be meditating on something such as watching the breath um and the meditation the the purpose of that is simply to let you know when one is when you are distracted and as time goes on it becomes more like a raging River it’s like one thought at a time but they there isn’t any gaps between them and slowly one gets to the point where there’s a a gap between and
34:27
that Gap when it first happens um it’s very Blissful in fact and you immediately oh that’s wonderful which of course causes you to lose that one moment but eventually it’s um said to be like um a stream entering into the ocean without a ripple so that uh one gets to the point where um there is not only a gap between thoughts but you sit there and a thought arises somewhat like a cloud floating across the sky then you can look at that thought and say where did it come from where is it where is it
35:13
going and in this way learn the true nature of your mind and the entire process um yields a a degree a high degree of Tranquility which eventually um permeates your uh entire life so that uh you know you’re not quite as uh excited about things as other people uh it comes in it’s most noticeable in in in times of Crisis or something when everybody like got 911 when the the building the the planes hit uh the uh World Trade Center I mean we had we had somebody coming out here you know that we had somebody calling us to tell
36:07
us that these things were happening and you know everybody else was running around and um and all that and we were you know um praying not only for the victims but for the um hijackers themselves because of considering what what confusion must been in their minds to do something so unspeakable yeah and um believing in in karma that what you do is going to affect what you experience in the future um the worst thing one the the absolute worst thing one can do is to commit suicide so they not only committed
36:55
suicide but then they killed thousands of people yeah I got you so um but it’s um looking at it being able to look at that impartially without getting emotional um a lot of it has to do with um what what drives uh drives us most often um we call the five poisons attachment aversion ignorance pride and jealousy and if you look at you know it’s like people um um you you naturally like something so you want to hold on to it and so you fight other people so they won’t get it from you um there are other things you
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dislike so you try and um avoid them get rid of them uh ignorance meaning that you don’t really know what you you don’t really know the the nature of things you don’t really know what’s going on um pride and jealousy has gotten us all into trouble um so that we strive to be balanced and aware and um I guess I guess I’m still learning too which is good yeah yeah I got it now many people also talk about the Buddhist way the darma path of of um coming from a heartfelt and warm nature instead of
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being selfish and self-focused as much as Buddha Buddhism is I want to say an inside job working on the inside of you uh I’ve also come to understand that focusing in the world or being in the world and thoughtful of other people is also considered a high regard how how does that integrate with it all well the um there’s really two aspects to everything we do one aspect is the act itself and the other aspect is why our motivation what it’s not doesn’t matter it’s not only what it is we do but why we do
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it um helping ourselves making ourselves better making you we do if we do it for selfish reasons this is going to lead to suffering in the long term versus doing it for more humanitarian reasons which will benefit all beings so that uh um it grows out of this feeling that at you know with reincarnation one feels that one has been born a nearly infinite number of times and then in that time every person every bug everything that any any organism
