LISA DARCY,  Director of ShareYourMana – CHAMPION

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Jason with LISA DARCY,  Director of ShareYourMana Foundation, helping with resources and action directed helping displaced people, whether living on the streets, in their car, challenges of “slipping through the cracks” in living.  Discussions about post hurricane observations and hopes for the future. 8-27-2018

Summary & Transcript

1. 1. 1.  Interview on Homelessness and Marginalization in Maui with Lisa Darcy

• [00:00 → 02:59] Introduction and Context Setting
  Jason Schwartz opens the program “The Neutral Zone” on Maui’s free speech radio station KAKU 88.5 FM, emphasizing the show’s mission to provide an open platform for dialogue among people with differing views, aiming for integrated, community-driven solutions. He introduces Lisa Darcy, the first female guest on the show, highlighting her extensive work as an advocate for marginalized populations, particularly those facing homelessness and mental health challenges. Lisa is portrayed as an “interpreter” between systems and marginalized individuals, helping bridge understanding between communities and those who have experienced severe difficulties.
•      [02:59 → 07:54] Lisa Darcy’s Background and Experience
  Lisa describes her multifaceted role, spanning decades of experience working within mental health services, homeless outreach, and community alliances on Maui. She has worked with Mental Health Kokua, the State Department of Health, Aloha House, Maui Homeless Alliance, and has directed nonprofits. A key frustration she shares is the compartmentalized nature of services, which treat only parts of people’s needs rather than the whole individual. This fragmentation limits effective solutions, especially for those with complex mental health and social challenges. She stresses the importance of integrated approaches that address the entire “body” of a person’s needs.
• [07:54 → 13:54] Challenges Faced by the Homeless and Marginalized during Emergencies
  Lisa recounts her recent experience checking on unsheltered individuals before a hurricane warning. Many were unaware of the impending danger due to lack of access to information (no data plans or phones), locked public facilities (bathrooms and parks), and mistrust or fear of shelters. She learned the importance of language, noting that the word “shelter” can trigger negative associations, while “Red Cross evacuation center” opens more trust. She describes the practical and emotional barriers faced by people living outdoors, including carrying all their possessions, lack of transportation to safe locations, and the social anxiety shelter environments can cause. This segment highlights the invisibility and vulnerability of many marginalized individuals during crises.
• [13:54 → 17:57] Complexities of Homelessness: Categories and Misconceptions
  Lisa explains that homelessness is often misunderstood as a monolithic issue. There are various categories:
  • Chronic homelessness involving severe mental health issues or addiction, requiring intensive support.
  • Situational homelessness where people cycle in and out due to life events like job loss, divorce, or fires.
  • Hidden homelessness, including those living in cars or temporarily “couch surfing,” who remain largely invisible to public services and society.
    She advocates for more flexible, diversified solutions such as safe parking lots with amenities for people living in vehicles. Lisa stresses that many marginalized individuals are actively working and contributing to the community but lack safe and stable housing.
• [17:57 → 24:22] Systemic Barriers and the Need for Compassionate Outreach
  Lisa discusses systemic barriers within agencies and public perception. Many agencies are overwhelmed and constrained by bureaucracy, limiting their ability to innovate or provide holistic care. She recounts the disconnect between policymakers and the lived realities of the homeless, urging that decision-makers experience shelter intake processes firsthand to understand obstacles. She emphasizes the need for trained outreach workers who can build trust and relationships with unsheltered individuals “in the bushes.” Compassion is abundant in the community, but infrastructure to translate compassion into effective action is lacking. Lisa’s approach includes one-on-one support and mobilizing community contributions in a way that truly meets people’s needs.
• [24:22 → 31:35] Managing Donations and Clarifying Terminology
  The conversation turns to practical issues such as managing donations after disasters. Lisa warns against indiscriminate donations, which can overwhelm agencies and waste resources, advocating for specific requests (e.g., gift cards, baby formula, bottled water). They discuss the importance of language: avoiding the stigmatizing label “homeless” in favor of terms like “houseless” or “unsheltered” to reflect the diversity of situations and reduce stereotypes. Lisa notes the public often conflates homelessness with visible intoxication or mental illness, ignoring the broader spectrum of people in need.
• [31:35 → 39:01] Engaging NIMBYs and Building Community Understanding
  Lisa shares her experience engaging with “NIMBY” (Not In My Backyard) neighbors—people resistant to shelters or homeless camps near their homes. She describes having direct face-to-face conversations, including multiple lunches, as a way to humanize marginalized people and shift perceptions. Through dialogue, Lisa helped transform hostility into practical support, including fundraising for specific individuals. She stresses the importance of recognizing everyone as human beings with dignity and potential, challenging prejudice and fear through personal connection.
• [39:01 → 44:47] The Role of ‘Mana’ and Spiritual Power in Advocacy
  Lisa explains the Hawaiian concept of “mana” as a source of spiritual power, compassion, and self-authorization. She connects this cultural idea to her work, emphasizing that advocacy requires both evidence-based practices and an activated compassion that moves people to act. She laments how society often overlooks marginalized individuals, rendering them invisible. Retraining the public to see and acknowledge these people is crucial for fostering empathy and community action. This segment highlights the blend of cultural values and practical activism underpinning Lisa’s mission.
• [44:47 → 52:31] Voting, Privilege, and Structural Challenges
  Jason raises the question of voting among marginalized populations, pointing out that lack of address and registration often excludes them from participating in democracy. Lisa acknowledges the significant structural challenges such people face, such as transportation, lack of affordable bus passes, and basic needs like access to bathrooms. She stresses that many barriers are underestimated by privileged people who take these basics for granted. The discussion also critiques local emergency response measures, highlighting gaps in shelter accessibility, transportation, and communication during crises. Lisa calls for standardized, comprehensive emergency planning that accommodates marginalized groups’ unique needs.
• [52:31 → 55:25] Leadership and Vision Deficits in Addressing Homelessness
  Lisa asserts that Maui’s efforts to address homelessness are hampered by a lack of top-level leadership with the necessary education, experience, and vision to coordinate effective solutions. While emergencies have been declared, the outcomes have been limited by insufficient expertise in crucial roles. She advocates for valuing professionals with deep knowledge and experience to lead systemic change. This leadership gap contributes to the persistence of chronic homelessness and service fragmentation.
• [55:25 → 56:50] Closing Reflections and Call to Action
  The interview concludes with Lisa reiterating the chronic nature of many individuals’ homelessness, often caused or worsened by cascading life challenges such as fines and legal troubles that spiral out of control. Jason thanks Lisa for her extensive insights and encourages listeners to engage with her organization, Share Your Mana (shareyourmana.org), which aims to mobilize community action and provide tangible support to marginalized individuals. They plan to continue this conversation in future shows to build a comprehensive picture of the issue and potential solutions.

1. 1. 1. Key Insights

• Homelessness is a complex, multifaceted issue requiring integrated, whole-person approaches.
• Language and perception profoundly impact trust, outreach, and community engagement.
• Emergency preparedness for marginalized populations is inadequate and requires more inclusive planning.
• Compassion exists widely but needs effective channels and infrastructure to translate into action.
• Direct dialogue with resistant community members (NIMBYs) can foster understanding and cooperation.
• Voting and civic engagement are critical but often inaccessible for houseless populations without structural reforms.
• Leadership with relevant expertise is essential for driving systemic change in homelessness services.
• Community involvement, from one-on-one support to strategic donations, plays a vital role in addressing homelessness.

1. 1. 1. Resources Mentioned

• Share Your Mana: A nonprofit organization focused on advocacy and community engagement for marginalized populations in Maui. Website: shareyourmana.org
• Mental Health Kokua, Aloha House, Maui Homeless Alliance: Agencies involved in mental health and homelessness services on Maui.
• Local Radio Station: KAKU 88.5 FM – platform for community dialogue and information sharing.

This detailed summary captures the essence of the discussion, highlighting the challenges, nuanced realities, and hopeful strategies for addressing homelessness and marginalization in Maui as articulated by Lisa Darcy and Jason Schwartz.

Transcript

00:00

give to make a donation today thanks for your support Maui’s free speech station kayuu 88.5 FM Kahului mouth the voice of maui [Music] welcome to the [Music] and [Music] [Applause] [Music] hello hon good morning this is Jason Schwartz I am here with a great guest this is the neutral zone which as you’ve discovered is anything but neutral but we like to stay open to talking to all sides of all issues and all people and that’s our trip and we want to be able to be a zone for people to talk about

01:44

things and take people that don’t agree on issues and process them and come out the other end with an integrated solid answer and actions that our government community everybody in the pot you know this is one of those things of let’s not throw away anybody I have a guest today in fact you’re breaking the ice young lady you’re the first woman guest out of 11 shows I was like wow I didn’t realize that you’re the first one this is Lisa Darcy welcome to our show Jason thank

02:22

you very much now we have a very funny animal here in that we’re on radio so are you out there at 88.5 FM can hear us if you’re at the king’s cathedral or closer to the station otherwise tune in which is on the it’s a program that you can find on your phone you can tune in and get these shows you can also find it at Maui neutral zone calm one day after we get up there Lisa we’re here and you know I know you and some people out there in our listening audience hear the word Lisa Darcy and they go oh she’s

02:59

helped me she helped me do this for my friend oh she helped my brother she helped my sister she’s the one she you’ve been an advocate for I don’t want to call it housing let’s say homelessness or mental health people and people that are down on their luck people how do I describe you because I think of you as an angel who happened to jump down here on earth and doing good things and but I used to be a this Easter how would I describe you yeah this is not something that there is a category for which I’m trying to help

03:39

create categories for but I actually see myself as an interpreter and the value that I bring to any position is to be able to share insights from whatever world you’re walking in and the world that I have found myself so deeply entrenched in which is so deeply misunderstood is the world of individuals that have become marginalized for all kinds of reasons and to be able to interpret to someone who’s never experienced their struggles it’s it’s something that I take very seriously but I also take very lightly

04:25

that’s I mean you sound like a politician because I when I asked you I asked to try to get a see I’m trying to for our audience I know you are you’re someone who does great things as an angel well they call me an angel too but you know I the more I find that I diversify the less people have been able to understand who and what I am and what I do and so I think about that with you because when I first met you you were a counselor and I thought you were a counsellor for individuals in mental

04:58

health or mental health Kokua you know but I don’t know how these agencies work here you know when you have challenges like you said you don’t really know which door you’re supposed to go through and who’s in charge of this and who’s in charge of that so you were someone who helped people you were a counselor so that’s why I’m trying to rope it in for our listeners okay so to know who you are a broader perspective on the contributions that I am working on yes I’ve worked for mental with mental

05:29

health Kokua Iran there they have a day program for individuals who are trying to regain their their footing back in the community I’ve worked with the State Department of Health i’ve run program over that is designed also for individuals with severe and persistent mental health needs I have worked with Aloha house I have been a huge voice at the Maui homeless Alliance all not a very popular one but I’m a voice there I’ve worked with the Alliance that’s good and I’ve worked in agencies and I’ve

06:08

worked with the state in and and what I’ve realized is I you tend to hit a ceiling in what you can do because it’s very all of these agencies that they’re doing good work are compartmentalized and and because they’re compartmentalized I feel like I only get to treat like if you were a doctor the left arm when the rest of the body also might have an infection and if you can only treat one piece of it to me if I felt like I have to go bigger and deeper in order to get to the root cause of why

06:38

we are not as a community networking more more openly and easily and why I can’t treat the whole body and be a part of a discussion that treats the whole body certainly with mental health and marginalization you need to talk about the whole person and all of their all of their needs so okay that’s why I’ve ranched often I start we got into that what I’m I’m trying to do is my shows are out there on kak you radio which has a small listenership because it doesn’t broadcast well yet so we’re creating a

07:15

file and in that file are what I consider champions great people in who and what they are and I haven’t been thinking ahead I’ve been thinking in the moment and here I thought of you and I want our audience later to know lisa Darcy has worked for different agencies for the state and the county and independent you’ve also been director of a non-profit in also working in homelessness and housing and she has I don’t want to make her all but many many not many many years of experience

07:54

decades let’s say it that way how does that that was pretty gentle right by the way you see we’re on Facebook live so someone say holding up fingers she’s got experience and she’s had experience from all levels of this so she’s talking you can hear she’s already jumping into the meat of why isn’t it integrated why can’t I work with the whole thing and as I’m listening I’m thinking to myself God do I have to plug my own thing again this is the Maui neutral zone that’s

08:24

what we want that’s what I did with my nonprofit and what the same thing I wanted all the integrate and I want waste to have nothing at the end of the stream we’re on an island and we’re all together I don’t know why we can’t what’s on your mind today Jason give me you said okay but let’s maybe we can find a specific piece all right well the specific pieces I want to introduce because I one use when you open your mouth here with answers I don’t want I see it in the newspaper oftentimes they

08:58

marginalize people that are speaking and think they don’t have enough experience or now why are they talking they don’t know this and that you know this as well so part of the thing that I’ve done with my life is I’ve intentionally not necessarily I I don’t feel like I to be really good at what I’m doing I have to have a lot of letters or numbers behind my name and while I respect education and it’s extremely valuable the kind of education that I feel that doesn’t

09:29

really have that much grip yet or presence is just the the the amount of experience and hearing people’s stories and having them actually come forward and tell their stories because they’re still so hiding in the shadows and generally that group of people is very weary of people who are not like willing to get really really dirty and I’m willing to get really really dirty and be really really dirty if it means that I can I can walk in their shoes and they’ll allow me to walk in their shoes

10:02

and that doesn’t happen when you have an office job and you’re on the phone and you’re and you’re talking to you you know you have to have somebody who can interpret this who can get really dirty and but you you can’t do both I tried to do both and be in an office and you know you know have leadership roles which are really valuable and I understand that but I also realize that without the actual person having that space to actually be seen to be recognized that you know all the work

10:38

that I’m doing in that office may not be going in the direction it needs to go if not really being driven by the individuals when you’re at work at an office I mean I I’m not I understand what you’re saying you need to be effective and the people that you’re talking about are mostly homeless or have mental health challenges or many times both and more mm-hmm or just plain poor have you ever ran into a maybe you know is it the chicken or the egg which comes first yeah I I mean I’ve seen people that have

11:13

had houses lost their houses end up in their car police let them stay in their car they don’t know where to be what to do there’s no we’re safe they go to homeless shelters they have rules and regulations they can’t deal with that and then they’re suddenly out there sleeping in a bush behind of this behind of that maybe they’ve gotten beaten up I’m just giving you the scenarios that I’m hearing you know well let me give you an example this happened well those are the lucky ones they can

11:43

get into the office there’s just a growing growing number of people that can’t get into the office and there’s a lot of reasons why that’s happening and so I’m really interested in over the last week since we’ve had this hurricane warning and it’s been in our life I spent and I just got back on Island I was off island for a little while so my relationships are you know you have to be up on you have to be face to face with people to have these relationships so I actually went down to

12:12

the beach right before the hurricane and was checking with people and saying hey do you know what’s going on are you aware of what’s happening they a lot of people actually didn’t know what was happening they were unaware they don’t they can’t afford a data plan that allows them to see what’s happening you know and check you know we check our phones we check our emails they don’t have that luxury the bathrooms were locked for days and the parks were locked for days so people were obviously

12:42

having to go to the bathroom in the bushes they didn’t know how bad it was there were no signs posted no one had been around to talk with them and I was horrified thinking everybody’s you know I’m watching people post they’re having you know hurricane parties and all this stuff I’m like oh my god all of their stuff is going to get ruined they’ve got no at the top of my sliders here yeah yeah so I wish people are having parties and not knowing or not caring general public who has access to a home who has

13:21

access to some walls who has access to electricity they don’t understand that we as a community we open shelters but there’s no transportation to get to those shelters so people who don’t have a car you know I mean they’re gonna either have to hitchhike or find a way and then they’ve got to carry all of their belongings and it’s intimidating for people to be around other people in shelters I went out just to do and asked people if I could drive them to the shelter can I Drive you to the shelter

13:54

and people were worried because i used the word shelter and they’ve had experiences with our local shelters and and and this is a two-way street it is not a one-way street it’s a two-way street with experience but i learned that i had to change my language and I needed to say a Red Cross evacuation center and not use the word shelter and that would bring a little bit more space for me to build up some trust with people to go so you’re saying this is what I hear mm-hmm the local homeless

14:27

that we see all over have things they carry with they can’t just leave them that’s all their things they don’t have anything in storage they don’t have any communication things when things get closed down for the world their bathrooms are taken away they’re very solutions that are on the street so they are forced into this unusual situation perception of the public is obviously unclear about who and what these people are I mean there are all kinds of people on the street that are doctors and engineers and there

15:05

are people all kinds of problems all mixed in this huge pot but when we have this kind of hurricane by the way we also had a fire ikkaku wants to let you know that we are a drop off place for things that people need if they want to contribute to the people that have experienced the challenge and will lost their homes but here we’re talking about another group just as needy well so here’s the overlap I’ve worked with people who are living on the beach who had lost their homes in fires in

15:37

different places in the United States and through a series of events and for them not being able to get back on their feet over a certain amount of time they’ve ended up homeless like like hardcore homeless and here’s the thing about homeless unsheltered houseless there are so many different types of needs and I we we have to be more flexible in our approach instead of thinking that everybody has a drug addiction and is unpredictable in their behavior we have to start seeing that there are so many people living in their

16:17

cars working and I think if Maui started to have parking lots where there was a bathroom and people could just hook up a little electricity or shower we would see how many people are really living in a circumstance and are you know contributing to the community and are getting back in but but they’re living out of their cars and we don’t even know who that group is because we don’t provide an opportunity for them to have safety to do that so they may not be this perception of homeless or house lists or unsheltered

16:50

that is has behavioral challenges you know your point being that my identifying that people on the street is really not even opening the lid to see of all the people that are homeless right that are on the street so there’s there’s different categories people homeless people yeah there’s generally three categories and one is chronic which is a you know maybe some people has a drug addiction or really has just unable to function well and those are the people that have a lot of needs and

17:28

physical needs and mental health needs generally as well then you kind of have situational you have people that go back and forth in and out of homelessness maybe maybe they have mental health issues and they can be stable for a little while or maybe they’re in construction and they get jobs and then they don’t get jobs I’ve seen quite a few construction workers that are living in this state of you know I’ve got a gig then I don’t have a gig and then there is the that I have a house fire or

17:57

there’s a number or people get a divorce and one person ends up on the short end of problems and and the shelter is somehow not appealing what’s not appealing I mean I can imagine I know people that have houses that weren’t homeless in different categories that also just have a real arm’s length from going to a shelter well I wouldn’t I would like to come back with somebody who’s gone through an experience but and and it’s I don’t think that anything’s wrong with the

18:24

shelter but what I like to say is that we need a more diversified approach to actually helping people in in living I would when I was working with a task force so I said to somebody who was on a task force to solve this on Maui a couple years ago and I said have you ever been into what we provide here I need the two the two programs and he said no and I said well you should probably spend a couple of nights just you know take it back back and try it it see what it’s like I said if you’re

18:58

gonna represent a group of people that are using this and I said you need to go in through intake you need to go in through all that and see what it’s like well yeah that didn’t happen I didn’t the person didn’t do it and I think it over thought of it actually overwhelmed them and and I said you’ve got to understand that you know this happens to people just normal to everybody you know it’s not like you just end up in a horrible chronic state I mean this is a things in your life

19:24

dissolves slowly painfully in front of your eyes unless it’s a mental health issue which can just really kind of kind of crash down or a physical probably if you have physical health and you lose your insurance and you don’t have you know people are kind of like oh we tried to help them and there’s also this strange paradigm that people are are not trying you mean there’s this perception that people aren’t trying yeah and there are some people that have given up absolutely given up well wouldn’t when

19:53

we say not trying then we start to look back at okay what kind of jobs can you find so you can work full-time at a job and still be living in your car jobs aren’t paying enough money right and some of the people that’s why I asked about the chicken and the egg right you might get up and say I don’t want to do anything I’ve had it but that could because you’ve gone nine months to all the agencies all of these all of those someone pumps you in your car you’ve been holding it in for three

20:23

days because you can’t go to the bathroom I mean I’m just right pulling out of them but that’s what I see right when you sit down and speak with people there are fantastic people and resources out there right right which is why I go back to thinking that you know you’re in all these alliances and all these brain trusts to figure this out I don’t know if this is a top-down solution it’s I’ve seen I had two people on this show one guy has gone through the process a lot

20:55

and he talked about process and agencies his name is Ron Fogle you probably don’t you may have met him and the other guy was a brad Cosman who has 28 people 28 people homeless people and all kinds of people in key a until one of the neighbors didn’t like it I mean it’s the NIMBY thing and also the people involved start to feel comfortable and have ownership to this we solution camp you know and we have to find a way I think to take someone who has an all inclusive approach and a varied approach and put this out in

21:35

public view where we can all say okay I’m public that’s my role that’s my role you do it you get out there and involved I’m a big fan of the fact that these agencies are so overwhelmed with the number of people they have to serve even if they had resources they’re all taken even if they want to help someone after a while they get gritty and difficult and they don’t know if they’re coming or going there’s a a Netflix thing called the orange is the new black I don’t you’ve ever seen that show it’s

22:08

about women in prison but when you go through that and recognize bureaucracy and I can talk to people and they say oh no no no that’s not what it is but sadly bureaucracy is looking at its numbers and I don’t like so it what I am here to do and what I tried to do at every meeting and every opportunity to speak is to evolve my experience is that Maui has is not evolving nearly quickly enough to meet the needs okay so that’s not a really far out statement and and what what what they were there are some

22:47

pieces that have to happen if Maui is going to turn the canoe and one is that there’s got to be a larger outreach I’ve said this for years I’ve been an advocate for people who go out and like what I do is actually just walk around in the bushes and go walk around it and build relationships you’re brave I don’t know that’s know the beauty that’s out there either they only see these and then and they have a bad experience and and those are legitimate bad experiences but

23:23

there’s a whole skill set you can bring I have been in places where someone has come up to me and said you need to get them out of here right now and I say okay that’s cool I’m gonna go and I want to thank you for letting me stay and they keep it and it would be like because I can’t take care of you I can’t take care of you and to me that was so beautiful that whatever is going on inside of him or around that he’s where whatever it is he’s saying just go and I said that’s

23:48

great I said wonderful you know so you have to have a skill set to do this you can’t just be a do-gooder and say oh I’m gonna go out and you have to have a skill set we need trained skilled individuals that know how to manage different situations go together if you you know and we but we don’t have that we haven’t had it and as many trained individuals as we need mm-hmm I’m trying to reach out to the public to say you don’t have to be trained to have some food and help someone well that’s you don’t have to be

24:22

trained to show compassion you don’t have to be trained so I think Maui has tons of compassion and I really do what I’ve seen it however we don’t have the conduits to change the compassion into the action that needs to happen or to actually create the change if it block it gets blocked and there aren’t these paths and I do it one-on-one and in with small groups because I’m a one-person army and I like I picked up stuff from a gentleman that I met a year and a half ago in the point-in-time count when it

24:53

was longer than that he now has an apartment it took a year and a half for him to get a place and I had somebody who I know who donated pots and went to Target and bought a kitchen set because he’s getting you get a keys to a place but he got nothing so I actually picked up dishes today I’m gonna drive him to his house okay we need a lot more of those conduits for the community to be able to pitch in and we don’t have those because it all goes through agencies which is exhaust or like here I’m this Kokua you know

25:27

well and you know they only need certain things now because they’ve got an overwhelming amount of donations and so they’ve already got so much stuff that you should definitely check the website see what they need versus just dropping anything off if you can see it whether you wear with this business too ikkaku they’re saying if you have anything you want to donate not just anything I think gift cards and lisas talking about this thing for the Westside I’m talking if you have anything you want to

25:59

donate please donate it come on down in fact then you can say your two cents on taka-kun we’re gonna take a break and come back and get into some more specifics okay so hang on we’re gonna have three minutes at least of commercials and you know my sponsors the Maui miracle org and comma line alone cash for gold here we go let’s go with some commercials and I guess we don’t call them commercials we call them our sponsors it’s shaggy Finkle things are problem solver guy just left of normal insane but always

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28:28

foundation org you they may be done with commercials oh maybe not we’ll find out soon I’m back here with Lisa Darcy here on the neutral zone on Jason Schwartz and we’re on 88.5 FM k-o-k aku which is Kaku okay you’re looking for a patent for pen we just got a little help on the donations we need baby clothes and baby formula and non-perishable foods and water that’s bottled if you have it and Lisa you were just mentioning you had a non-profit and when people bring donations sometimes if

29:18

you have excess donations it can create a problem because now you have extra work well yeah so I I’ve been watching and participating in the the way that people are generously helping out everybody affected by the hurricane and I know from experience that when the people will rise to the occasion and there was like I said Maui has a lot of Aloha in that capacity for looking out for everybody else and then you say hey we need things that you can end up with a lot of stuff and it’s really important

29:57

and I’m glad that they’re saying now that they give cards baby clothes and formula and water they getting really specific because otherwise you’ll just have containers and containers and and and then you know what do you then you’re gonna it’s just time and energy that you want to you know be putting towards helping people and not just certain through clothes and I don’t know they’re there’s so many wonderful people that will do that but you know like I said I’ve I’ve been through that before

30:23

let me ask you a question from way out here do almost people vote so you know I am really really interested in getting away from the word homeless first of all because there are people that are houseless there are people that are unsheltered there are people that are on the list because there is been a massive stigma over my experience that when you say homeless it goes straight to a person sitting with a bottle on a sidewalk drunk and or and and there’s this image and it is that is only a very small

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portion of people that are in need and without shelter and without living in a car so is living in a car Oh homeless yeah yeah well some people would actually say no they’ve got they’re actually get somewhere they can sleep I mean it’s weird with what happens I’m the public I’m defining it as anyone that doesn’t have a place that they can go home close the door and have a house you can say houseless I’m not trying to define them right or people that are just living on someone’s couch

31:35

you know well because they’re just they’re just like okay maybe next month I’ll have enough money and I’ll get a put you know I mean it’s it’s just there you also people are very hopeful like okay maybe I can just get a little you know me if I just get a hand up or maybe if I just do this and yeah it just with the cost of living the way it has gone in the last couple of years on Maui there III see this is only getting much more severe if many agencies we can direct people to that are having

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challenges or are there ways to to do this I know there’s a thing that you’re informing that’s sort of independent I’m happy to hear yeah share your mana and I’ve done this and again I stepped away from having a really significant and hopeful experience with hamona and to being able to work on a level politically to inspire people to look and to learn about this this very large issue versus just seeing homeless as being somebody drinking on a sidewalk but Moana there was a foundation is

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nation that was focused on these issues that you were well it’s a very specific issue which is the individual who founded it is interested in actually kind of making alternative living style which would be campsites and the public of course has had waited on this and and it created a lot of good dialogue and a really really energetic dialogue NIMBY problem not in my backyard yeah you know but maybe I like how do you how do you sit next to NIMBY how do you how do you welcome NIMBY into a conversation

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because NIMBY is still somebody and it’s still somebody who thinks and feels and we’re trying to say you know we are all people and you have to look at the people that you think are homeless and a house listen and don’t get that stereotype in your head and realize that the people in these situations have real need and you shouldn’t have an reason to hold them at arm’s length so I actually invited me to lunch I I have hadn’t in be come at me Oh many times that means she sat with the angry

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neighbors very much so and I looked them in the eye and I said when this is all done we’re we’re gonna we’re gonna we’re gonna be on the same page with something and we’re gonna do this and you you can you can insult me you can you know criticize me you can do whatever you want saying they don’t understand and I can’t be angry with people that don’t fully understand but I can be a little frustrated when people are not willing to try to understand so there’s a

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there’s a difference there too so it’s important to sit with people that have and have never experienced this and and and help them to understand that you have success in those NIMBY meetings yeah I I believe I have because I’ve walked out and actually had lunch with NIMBY about four times and thanks NIMBY for buying lunch and like this week well you know it’s the same way of reason you call somebody homeless you know there’s a name but they can be you know sometimes it’s racist

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sometimes it’s prejudiced against homo know how every you want to decide well and they’re not necessarily hand-in-hand I always want to I want to sit with whoever whatever to see and tease out which is which because you can’t be effective in a solution if you don’t understand the issues and I am I’m constantly learning so I sit in those meetings so that I can learn and be open but I’ve I actually after four lunches with NIMBY NIMBY was interested in willing to actually start a small fund

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for a specific person who we booth both knew and help that person out so that it would took a lot of time and energy to create that one little you know piece of headway but it went from being the person being angry at me to actually working into a solution for the community and for an individual so I know it can happen it’s just how do we create these platforms so that people can come in with whatever they need and however they come in but they leave feeling connected to the solution let me ask an odd question again I hear

36:20

what you’re saying and I think it’s absolutely important we’re all looking for those mechanisms I’m glad that your nonprofit I’m just going to make sure that the websites read clearly share your mana ma-na dot org here in Hawaii we know what mana is I guess everyone should know it from the Bible those that read the Bible but that means share what does mana mean here to you so when I talked to some kupunas and some Hawaiian descendants and and and researched it I you know a lot of the Hawaiian language

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is contextual as I understand and and and I’m not perfect at this but but the whole point of it is it’s your spirit it’s your divine power it’s you’re yeah yes you’re a synthetic Center it’s a way that you authorize yourself and and the goodness in you is how I understand it and and I think that that gets lost and I’m a big fan of evidence-based practices you know you know you figure out okay 22 people need this to get this you know I think everything in life is an equation but

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there is this piece that is non equational to I can’t actually create the equation but it’s your mana it’s your you can call it many different things around the world people call it there’s you know their power base their spiritual if you don’t know the compassion component and and it’s got to be activated it isn’t just about sitting around and wishing good things it’s about in a cup of cold water does this which I love them that’s a group a cup of cold water yeah here on Maui and

38:04

because they’re like okay you prayed now get up and go do something you know it’s kind of it’s along those lines and I’ve always respected them and so yes that’s the dimana so it’s it’s also about just being seen and and this group of people which is getting bigger and bigger we walk by them we who have things can walk by people you don’t even see them I walk I go to walk down the street with somebody go did you see that person they’re like I didn’t see him and it was

38:31

like sitting through the person was sitting right like did you not notice that but they noticed the nice car or something like we’re trained to look at certain things in a certain way because of habits I’m asking and I’m trying so hard to help people retrain the way they see and understand things so that they actually can collect more of a more objective picture of what’s right in front of them and then we can create action and we need to do community or meetings through trainings through

39:01

changing our language and not just calling everybody who’s marginalized homeless because it’s it creates these categories all right well now you guys who are watching can see me but I am I’m aware maybe you’re not thinking about it I’m aware that I triggered you I said homeless and you jumped on it because I was asking a different question totally okay my question was to homeless people houseless people marginalized people vote because if they don’t have a they have to register to vote have an address

39:41

right have anything been done about those kind of thing that’s why I can’t even get that though I’m getting to it because if you want to see change happen you vote if people are sitting on the sidelines and way to say oh look at that 36 people 36% of malli people voted that’s up from the 24 last time it’s like excuse me if you want to see things happen to vote and so I’m looking at the poor downtrodden last week we had the Hawaiians on and the thing is you may be Hawaiian but you also hold the power of

40:15

a vote did you realize that you could vote and actually help move things forward and that’s why I mentioning and I’m mentioning it here specifically right is there you’re looking to create a drop-off points you know for showers and take care of knick-knack things they need to do to be able to deal with you say is there a male thing if they figured out some notions no and and so it’s voting there’s no getting out of that spot and I’m gonna you know I respect you Jason very much so I when I

40:46

want to hear a question like that it also comes from a position of being privileged you and I are extraordinarily privileged in that we have places we can we can access we have transportation so I’m still trying to fight the horrendous you know amounts that the bus could go you know the fares can go up and things like that I’m just trying to help people even get a bus pass forget necessarily even having an address yeah you’re the trenches and and then when you say you respect me I respect you but what I also really am

41:21

looking to do is try to let the know just how many of these things that we mr. privileged I have a place to live but most of the people have a place to live that are listening to this but they have to understand just how challenging in so many areas for the very basic easy things that aren’t there like you know qualify to get a bus pass you can’t think about these things if you can’t even find a bathroom during the day the part parts and are the way that we treat anybody who has to use a bathroom on

41:57

Maui and you have to go into a shop I mean even I was you know just going down and walking along the beach I had to go to the bathroom so you have to go in the bushes there’s I mean like if you have to go and if our parks and places that we’re gonna be are gonna be locked it I am so baffled by the lack of willingness to work on helping people’s biologic I don’t care who you’re a human being and and to not have you know a useable bathroom and I know people only get dirty I’ll clean them I will get people

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will clean them but we do have to set them up and even porta-potties are locked these days so I mean it’s like it’s if you can’t even well you and what I hear you say you’ll do it you’ll have it done I’ve done it oh I’m not saying no what I’m saying is I’m looking to clone Lisa darzee the reason that I brought you on is because you are a model of an involved person I brought on Ron Fogle I brought on Brad because they’re people that get involved talking about homelessness being marginalized

43:05

all I don’t know what word to use here what you’re do use but all that stuff brings out in me a need for the public to feel more compassion like you just said you can’t put compassion and something else together with a NIMBY thing I keep wondering where is the compassion we all stand every Sunday or Saturday or whatever day is your favorite religious day and everything well that’s you well you know people are very hypocritical you know I’m I know people that were standing out in the hurricane by

43:41

themselves I’m sure you know you know I hold this to that couldn’t find a bathroom couldn’t find food couldn’t find a place to be sheltered all the few things they have are out in the elements they’re trying to deal with things that requires the public to have more convention well it also requires our agencies and our local government to value individuals as individuals because a Wahoo sent out busses Oahu opened up shelters with unique needs and they you know had low barrier

44:14

you know if somebody was drinking they did all of these sent buses out with people to gold that’s a really we you know we responded by locking everything up and not telling you know and and yeah if you have facebook or if you have a data plan that’s fine but if you don’t and there are people that really don’t and and and then we just said good luck with you know good luck and I yeah I was pretty I’ve been pretty disturbed by our our and we don’t even I don’t always know which shelters you know which high

44:47

schools or elementary schools you never know until the event comes up like which ones are gonna be open we need standardized you know ok Baldwin’s gonna be this is this is and which ones are gonna be pet friendly which ones are gonna be allow people that maybe have a drink or you know or have more space in between cots because they’re they’re um they’re really unable to function really close proximity with a lot of other people or people they don’t know it’s really of anxiety they have a Norma’s

45:16

anxiety and if we don’t have anybody and we don’t have these things set up before the event happens which is this is just basic life stuff then then people won’t and aren’t going to access if we don’t have a bus or a van or people saying hey I’ll take you up there because the buses don’t go there I mean like these are just basic things that I think that we have to structure private that’s why I’m going to the public again yours requires money requires hiring someone or to do it but if people

45:50

recognize and have compassion they can reach up that’s my thing and so you’re here to try to D Sigma ties and tell us what we can do as an agency but I am constantly I don’t find that battering you but I feel like I am constantly at the public to reach out out of their comfort zone yeah and have compassion no and there are like I said I never would have been as involved in this issue except suddenly someone I knew for many years was in this circumstance and it’s now been a decade a decade that she’s

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been challenged and I am beside myself when I reach out to the public and I say many of you they’re helping but we need more just like we need more people to vote and that’s again why I brought up voting I’m looking for people to be involved get engaged make believe you’re not neutral this is the neutral zone but it is what it is neutral this is an unnatural statement and we’re going to you and I are asking people to set aside their prejudices and their their stigmas yes and see people is just actually

47:11

human beings and if if you’re you’re unable to do that because if you’ve had an experience and you know you think that people are just taking off the system and there are people that are just taking off the system there are it happens of course it happens but if you see everybody in that light then you’re actually part of the problem and we really do need people too but I don’t even say we can’t I didn’t I’m not putting this just on somebody to wake up one day and go oh I feel compassionate

47:39

you you got to be stimulated by something that can inspires you and I am actually part of a women’s prison mentoring group and we had a meeting the day that hurricane was supposed to hit and I was talking about what I think needs to happen cuz they were asking me how I was feeling I told them I said I’m I’m I’m shaking because I know people are writing this out in in the woods and in the bushes and I I find it I find out you’re having trouble breathing I can go to a house and I can do this

48:13

but I I know they don’t anyway so one of the gentlemen just said do you need help I’ll go and I’ll Drive people I’ll Drive people he didn’t just wake up one morning and say oh there are people in the bushes I’ll go it was because I shared that so I have a responsibility all of us have a responsibility to share the needs and then that’s when people I think get inspired and compassion can also be inspired I’m glad that you have those kinds of experiences I have had

48:43

stories just told to me repeatedly about the cold shoulder it is it’s hard for me to say it a lot but it just is the truth I mean I repeat it because it’s it maybe our society is just getting so so standoffish from challenges or somehow desensitizing through not being belly-to-belly we now have computers we can sit in our room and never see another live human being but um compassion and getting involved you see a problem get involved I mean I know that’s what you do I know that’s what I

49:19

do so part of it I said well the thing that I want to really inspire people with their language how do I get involved just start asking you people you train us again to learn to ask a question how do I get involved what does it take to be involved you can just talk to anybody what does that look like how do i how do i do that what is it we just have to really challenge ourselves every day to ask five times how do I get involved what does that look like and that just that can open up so much dialog and solutions but you have to

49:53

have a thick skin you have to have a very thick skin this is not you know if this is this is for people that you know can learn to professionally put things aside not take these personally Lissie you know even good therapist you better have a very good therapist well but see even as you’re talking about it I’m thinking you’re jumping into the deep water with houseless people in the bushes and the but there are people in their cars there are many people that many of us know and we know that they’re living in there the

50:25

North Shore was littered with cars and people in their cars hunkering down in all kinds of places where general I mean that’s the kind of compassion I’m talking about when people we know are working and living in their car and have two kids in daycare and I mean I know guy working at a restaurant and he has his kids because he’s his wife is in prison mm-hmm he’s has his kids in the back of his truck each day those kids are selling drugs for their extra money right and he’s working hard

50:54

and he’s living in the truck and things go on I mean it’s just crazy so I’m saying if you know of situations out there where people are hurting give strong thought to and action to compassion and reach out I mean maybe we’re talking about something that is so big in our society and such a pervasive problem that a you know I’m saying well you know bring Jesus back and it’s gonna change things people have to walk this talk that we all been talking about goodness and and no prejudice and all

51:29

these things but now here is a chance where we can actually do something and I don’t know island will see the difference I always wondered here’s me I don’t know why I wear it fits into this conversation but maybe you can tell me we have a homeless problem we have a houseless problem now however I’m tell I don’t know word this is an emergency condition when I go down all the maja Street in Kailua and I see there’s no one there I say well wow there’s no people there that used to be homeless

52:01

oh no there’s a couple there’s a couple they keep sweeping things off the street yeah how about emergency you talked about when the hurricane comes knowing how to put the COTS so far away from each other why is there no why isn’t this a condition of emergency I like this as a standard procedure we’re allowed to say balls so I’m gonna use the word here why does the mayor have the balls to declare an emergency who is it that declares there has been but this is the thing this is an emergency

52:31

so there have been many emergencies declared but what are the outcomes of those right well my my objective experience propels me to say that there are compels me to say there are not a lot of people and some of the most critical positions that have a significant base of education and experience in order to drive a vision and if we don’t have that at the very top we don’t have that experience then we can’t expect any of these other pieces to fall into place so we really as a community and as a county and as a

53:14

state have to value people who actually have valid experience in this field and have got education that it requires and can can put a vision together and if we don’t have that which is where we’re right now well then what do we do you know you and I will just keep chatting on the radio you know there are people that maybe don’t require a salary that to do a little more help yeah no no getting that organized that’s what that’s what share your mind is trying to do through Community Association there

53:47

is someone like you doing that by the way I’ve just got another update here the families on the west side here’s a more specific list this is like Christmas list gas tanks pop-up tents generators lanterns picnic tables tarps propane tanks coolers twenty by twenty tenths five-gallon buckets water pump chainsaw shovels picks gift cards from some of this you know stores like Costco Home Depot waterproof containers cooking utensils pots pans I look at this list and I think that’s valid these people need

54:28

that but I keep thinking about all these other people I mean I don’t mean to just constantly go back there but just like you when you know someone that’s in challenge and that situation hasn’t changed it becomes chronic they started out as a person that was marginal their house is in foreclosure they thought they’d get it together and now they’re two decades like you said there’s people in these agencies and watching these things they’re tracking and doing the same thing with the person in the seat

54:57

for 25 years they’re still getting help from the same people that is still giving them the you know and I started to track I started to track when people got a ticket on their car and they were just getting by and they got one ticket and then they couldn’t pay that ticket and then that pentacle the fines and then it goes to the one of the agencies the collection agency and that and before you know it in a matter of months somebody could who is just getting by and had you know a maui beater they were

55:25

doing their best they have like eight grand on their tallied up and then now you know then they’re then they can get they get arrested and they get which once you get a record game over game over okay and and that can happen so easily here it’s some we have left I mean we can talk obviously we should have this again share your mana share your mana org really important to recognize Lisa Darcy and her organization check in and see what you can do to help there I hope you’ll come back here we’re gonna do

56:04

some TV shows also as I told you we’re setting a chronology of shows so that we can then present them as a bunch to someone and show them what’s going on around in our county I am going to close off my thing with a closing jingle thank you Lisa for being here I also thank you to everybody that does pitch in that didn’t get quite a lot enough time that I could voice for them but thank you for everybody that does pitch in thank you guys and thank you all for joining us on the neutral zone

56:50

I’m a 40 year old man that walked in there to get his high school diploma very hard for me but miss Araceli she gave me directions at age 47 Marco finished his high school diploma 50% of getting your high school diploma is walking through those doors the other 50% is doing the work no one gets a diploma alone if you’re thinking of finishing your high school diploma you have help find free adult education classes near you I finish our diploma org that’s finish your diploma or brought to you by the Dollar General

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Literacy Foundation and the Ad Council [Music]