Jason Schwartz explores Maui homelessness with LISA DARCY of Share Your Mana Foundation of Maui, Hawaii. Recent proposed legislation regarding potential fines and more for not helping homeless unless wrap-around services are concurrently provided is the issue. Discussion reviews current plight of the homeless/houseless. 11-12-2020
Summary & Timestamped Transcript Below…
[00:00 → 02:09]
Introduction and Core Issue
Jason Schwartz hosts Lisa Darcy on Maui Neutral Zone to discuss homelessness and systemic failures in Maui. Lisa emphasizes that homelessness is a visible symptom of deeper systemic issues—specifically, how people struggling with poverty, mental health, and addiction cannot access community support services effectively. The conversation highlights the complex interplay of social systems and individual struggles that prevent people from regaining stable livelihoods.
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[02:09 → 05:02]
Meaning Behind “Share Your Mana” and Community Responsibility
Lisa explains that the name “Share Your Mana” reflects a deep cultural and spiritual value, embracing individual responsibility and collective strength rooted in community and spiritual resilience. She ties this to her work as a Buddhist chaplain, emphasizing the importance of keeping an open heart and shoulders strong to support growth and change.
Jason shares his personal observation of homelessness, recounting a friend’s 13-year struggle, illustrating how difficult it is to exit homelessness despite available services, reinforcing Lisa’s point about systemic barriers. -
Maui’s Unique and Outdated System
Lisa describes Maui as having a highly insulated and antiquated systemfor addressing homelessness and mental health, lagging far behind other Hawaiian islands like Oahu. She explains how the island lacks broad-based community education and trained personnel to address mental health challenges effectively. Traditional institutionalization models from the mid-20th century, which transitioned to community-based care elsewhere, have barely been implemented in Maui.
She notes pockets of progress but emphasizes the lack of integrated, modern approaches to mental health and homelessness, resulting in community fear and ineffective policy responses. -
[10:00 → 15:59]
Controversial Bill 12.55 and Political Dysfunction
Lisa critiques Maui County Council Member Tasha Kama’s Bill 12.55, introduced the day before an election, which would prohibit distributing goods and funds in public without mandatory wraparound services. She describes the bill as ill-conceived, legally unvetted, and harmful, effectively criminalizing basic help to unhoused individuals unless tied to system engagement.
Lisa highlights the lack of community and legal vetting, the suspicious timing, and Kama’s absence from frontline engagement with homeless communities. She also notes Kama’s support for shutting down public bathrooms and water access during the pandemic, a decision that exacerbates health risks.
Despite Kama’s purported intentions to help, Lisa asserts the bill’s approach is disconnected from realities on the ground and lacks leadership transparency and accountability. -
[15:59 → 23:42]
Lack of Leadership and Community Disconnect
Lisa details Share Your Mana’s repeated attempts to collaborate with county leadership, including the mayor’s office, with little to no response. She underscores the disconnect between public meetings and actual lived experiences of homeless individuals, who often lack access to technology, transportation, or capacity to participate in bureaucratic processes.
She shares stories of individuals deteriorating mentally and emotionally without effective crisis intervention, underscoring the urgent human cost of systemic failure.
Lisa calls for accountability and a public apology regarding the harmful bill and urges reevaluation of Kama’s leadership role within affordable housing. -
[23:42 → 31:31]
Data Deficiencies and Contradictory Reports
There is a significant lack of coordinated data collection and transparency on homelessness in Maui. Lisa contrasts conflicting statements from county officials about whether homelessness is increasing. The Point-in-Time (PIT) Count process is outdated and inefficient, relying on handwritten forms rather than digital tools used elsewhere.
She also discusses the Maui Homeless Alliance, which she describes as increasingly ineffective, losing membership and cohesion. Attempts to link with more effective groups on Oahu have been rebuffed or ignored.
This fragmentation and lack of objective data hinder effective policy formation and resource allocation. -
[31:31 → 39:58]
Challenges Within the Maui Homeless Alliance and Agency Silos
Lisa details internal dysfunction within the Maui Homeless Alliance, where challenging issues is often perceived as personal attacks, creating a toxic environment that stifles progress. Many agency representatives attend meetings solely to maintain funding rather than to collaborate authentically.
She explains how contractual limitations often restrict agency flexibility, leaving many unable to address holistic needs. This motivated the founding of Share Your Mana as a nimble, community-driven entity not bound by governmental constraints.
Lisa stresses the importance of person-centered recovery models that prioritize individual needs over rigid agency frameworks. -
Community Engagement and Positive Examples
Lisa highlights positive engagement with some council members, such as Shane Sinenci, who has visited encampments to listen directly to residents. This genuine contact provides valuable insight into the harsh living conditions faced by unhoused residents, including lack of shade, water, and sanitation.
She describes the physical hardship and community pride in these vulnerable spaces, noting the importance of respectful, empathetic engagement by officials.
Lisa contrasts this with the lack of follow-through on Maui, where there is no coordinated plan for housing or work programs, and political leadership remains ineffective in advancing solutions. -
[50:40 → 53:41]
Innovative Housing Solutions and Cultural Considerations
Lisa discusses successful models implemented on Oahu such as tiny house villages built through community collaboration and donated resources. She advocates for replicating these models on Maui and emphasizes the need for leadership commitment and land allocation.
She also notes that traditional Hawaiian housing values and connections to the land are often overlooked in current planning, despite the potential for culturally relevant, sustainable shelter solutions using recycled materials and native building techniques. -
[53:41 → 58:58]
Vision for Inclusive, Respectful Dialogue and Action
Lisa articulates her vision for community dialogue that separates issues from personal blame, promoting respectful conversations grounded in health and safety for all residents. She emphasizes the need for open hearts and minds and warns against the reactive, defensive culture that currently dominates policy discussions.
She underscores the pandemic as a moment of clarity stripping away unnecessary layers, enabling Share Your Mana to reach a broader audience and deepen community bonds.
Lisa expresses willingness to engage in direct dialogue with council members, including Kama, to foster understanding and collaborative solutions. -
[58:58 → 01:04:40]
Call to Action and Sustained Community Engagement
Lisa encourages continuous community involvement, no matter how small, to sustain momentum toward solutions. She invites listeners to join Share Your Mana’s alliances and participate in local dialogues and actions.
Lisa stresses that helping the homeless is not foreign or difficult—it starts with seeing those in need and reaching out. She provides contact information (shareyourmana.org) for those wishing to contribute or learn more.
Jason closes by affirming Lisa’s vital role in the community, emphasizing the need to bring homeless individuals back into the community fold with dignity and respect.
Key Insights and Conclusions
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Homelessness in Maui is a symptom of systemic failures in mental health, addiction treatment, poverty alleviation, and community support integration.
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Maui’s political and social systems are antiquated, insulated, and reactive, lagging behind other islands.
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Bill 12.55 exemplifies harmful policy-making disconnected from community realities, introduced without legal vetting or stakeholder engagement.
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There is a critical lack of leadership accountability and transparency in addressing homelessness, with poor communication and exclusion of community voices.
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Data collection on homelessness is inadequate and inconsistent, hindering effective decision-making.
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The Maui Homeless Alliance suffers from dysfunction, lack of cohesion, and agency silos that prevent coordinated action.
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Positive progress can come from direct, empathetic engagement with unhoused individuals and adopting community-based, culturally relevant housing models.
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Share Your Mana champions a person-centered, flexible, and community-driven approach, filling gaps left by government agencies.
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The pandemic has exposed urgent needs and created opportunities for more authentic dialogue and community cohesion.
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Sustained community involvement, education, and advocacy are essential to drive systemic change and support vulnerable populations.
Timeline of Key Events Mentioned
| Timestamp | Event/Topic |
|---|---|
| 10:32 | Introduction of Bill 12.55 by Council Member Tasha Kama (day before election) |
| 26:16 | Council Member Shane Sinenci visits Waihata encampment, listens to residents firsthand |
| 32:41 | Point-in-Time Count criticized for outdated manual data collection on Maui |
| 35:46 | Maui Homeless Alliance declines collaboration with Oahu’s Partners in Care |
| 43:24 | Public reaction and testimony against Bill 12.55, community voices rising |
| 48:37 | Description of Oahu’s tiny home village model and community involvement |
| 58:17 | Lack of public notification about council Q&A regarding Bill 12.55 |
| 01:00:22 | Discussion on agency workers’ perceived inability to challenge the system |
Definitions and Concepts
| Term | Definition/Description |
|---|---|
| Wraparound Services | Comprehensive support services addressing multiple needs (health, housing, counseling) required alongside aid distribution. |
| Point-in-Time Count (PIT) | Annual count of homeless individuals used for data and funding decisions; criticized here for inefficiency. |
| Person-Centered Recovery | Approach prioritizing individual needs and goals over agency-imposed structures. |
| Tiny House Village | Community-based, small-scale housing units providing shelter and basic services, often community-built. |
Recommendations and Calls to Action
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Community members should engage daily, even with small steps like making calls, joining discussions, or volunteering.
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Leadership must prioritize emergency housing with basic services, such as sanitation, shelter, and water access.
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Adopt culturally relevant and innovative housing solutions, including tiny homes and traditional Hawaiian building methods.
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Improve data collection and transparency by modernizing the PIT count and coordinating among agencies.
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Create inclusive alliances that elevate voices of homeless individuals alongside agencies and community members.
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Demand accountability and clarity from elected officials, including reconsidering leadership roles when harmful policies are proposed.
Keywords
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Homelessness
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Maui
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Mental Health
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Addiction
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Wraparound Services
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Bill 12.55
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Community Engagement
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Data Transparency
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Maui Homeless Alliance
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Tiny House Village
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Person-Centered Recovery
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Leadership Accountability
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Emergency Housing
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Cultural Relevance
Summary
This discussion reveals the profound systemic challenges Maui faces in addressing homelessness, rooted in outdated policies, ineffective leadership, poor data practices, and a lack of genuine community collaboration. Lisa Darcy and Jason Schwartz urge a shift toward compassionate, inclusive, and innovative approaches that respect individuals’ dignity and cultural values. They call for urgent leadership accountability, community-driven solutions, and sustained public engagement to transform the current crisis into an opportunity for healing and rebuilding.
Transcript
0:00
[Music] aloha good morning out there i am jason schwartz your host here at the maui neutral zone mauineutralzone.com all over the web but you know um we have guests and we’ve had all kinds of interesting guests this is a guest who you see to my that way we’re on zoom now we’re still in middle of cove at times but that doesn’t stop the world from turning and i have lisa darcy i looked this is lisa darcy lisa darcy was on our show twice that’s because she’s dealing with something that is very important
00:50
and uh not handled yet you know and we like to say once we’re done with it once you’re not a guest that means we’ve solved all the world’s problems well this is one that we’re all going to look at together highly so sorry for doing that little funny introduction we’re on radio and tv so i don’t know what people are seeing how have you been i’m very well thank you so much jason for having share your mana on your show again i appreciate it you have been a guest uh share your mana
01:23
is your non-profit and your subject is homelessness is that right well you know interestingly enough it isn’t homelessness homelessness is kind of the obvious core issue that you can see as a result but the the the real issue is how do people when they begin to have difficulties access the provided services in a community to help them maintain their livelihood and not fall into homelessness but this adventure has gone way beyond trying to address the systems it is actually unfolded into the actual
02:09
lives of the individuals who cannot get out of poverty and mental health addiction any of those just needs that have rendered them really kind of incapable of moving back into the community in in a productive way you’re the name share your mana to me means you’re you’re speaking to the world and say hey wake up or are you talking to the person you’re talking to us in the world who need to kind of step up would that be so jason i didn’t i didn’t come upon this the name of this
02:47
non-profit um quickly or lightly uh i sat for months and months and months and distilled the core value that this movement wanted to embrace and it paralleled with me starting my journey into buddhist chaplaincy and there’s this really essential individual core responsibility to value systems that really are the backbone for any community to decide what kind of laws are made what kind of decisions what kind of programs are supported and it’s really about that that almost divine intervention that
03:36
people feel in whatever spirituality or religion or whatever you in embrace that gives you strength and keeps your heart open but your shoulders up you know that it welcomes new ideas even in their discomfort that’s where you grow so this was i didn’t i did not step into this and i sought counsel on you know even suggesting this name since it is of deep reverence and power and uh it is not to be said or or used um carelessly so thank you for actually bringing that up well you know i now know you a while and i
04:21
have seen you in the field a little bit and we’ve gone to meetings about things uh homelessness has been an issue for me only because sadly i know people that have slipped into that category and uh it’s a very slippery peel it’s been 13 years or more that she’s been homeless this friend of mine and um i watch as she’s had a hard time getting out you just said it right there and um each time we we speak i you know you keep such a bright attitude but i know you’re dealing with subjects that
05:02
are super real and people can’t imagine unless they’re around people they know that have slipped into challenges that this why don’t they just go for services why don’t they just why don’t they why don’t they jason you bring up a bright attitude and that’s one of the core responsibilities that i feel as a human being i have every single day to bring that and to witness how these systems function their equations and to keep a positive attitude about making change maui is a very
05:45
insulated community in terms of politics and the way that they uh the way that they organize their help in their community it is extraordinary how long it has been able to remain this insulated you can go to oahu you can go to every other island and you can see much more progressive ways of addressing these needs and yet maui has a very clear power structure on how this is going to get addressed or not addressed in the silence in almost all meetings for a decade for the 18 years there is so much silence
06:27
in these meetings here in maui it’s deafening and that is a really interesting place to be and it keeps my attitude bright because i realize really it is just a matter of time before maui community really demands that we join the rest of the state and the rest of the nation and moving ahead and being proactive instead of paralyzed or reactive in the way that we help um people who are struggling to expand like what jumps out at you as a difference like i could start naming it but that is a really giant thing you basically
07:11
you’re saying that maui has a unique system it’s called no system well now now it has a system that it’s antiquated it’s very antiquated and it has not kept up with the type of research that is demonstrated in the way that you approach needs and you know you think about people who had mental health issues 100 years ago or locked up even 50 years ago were locked up in institutions we don’t any longer have institutions that said uh at the time the institutions were if you go back to the institutionalization
07:47
in the 1950s um it was all intended to go become community based which meant that there would be satellites in in all the communities where people would go to programs and those programs would have places where people lived and that so they would have group homes and so there were all these spokes and when i got into this type of work it was a magical time and it happened on the east coast where i was part of these programs where people were coming literally coming out of these institutions i went to those
08:18
institutions i saw people in the corners and um you know just staring at the tv over medicated and and i got a chance to work with those people and help them get back into the community and it worked there were pieces of in the institutionalization that worked beautifully maui hasn’t even gotten to the 1950s in terms or like maybe even like let’s move up to the 70s and 80s when you know really community-based and even the 90s maui has never gotten there in fact the reason i came to maui was to bring a program
08:51
that had those core values that help people move that would move from molokini into the day program and then have group homes which you know so people would have a larger community but it was also a community that understood their behavior and wouldn’t be frightened by it because you can understand schizophrenia and you can understand paranoia and you can understand anxiety if you understand it’s an equation if you’ve never if you don’t know how to manage the equation it could be
09:19
frightening but you know somebody who talks to their fingers people are frightened by that but in fact you sometimes just merely have to interrupt that conversation because people are having real conversations they have they hear voices it’s nothing to be frightened of but maui doesn’t even have any trained individuals really um on a large and on a community basis there are pockets in a certain a couple of organizations but they’re very insulated to themselves and it isn’t a broad-based um approach to education
09:53
to the community so people are frightened of it and then we have people who are in very significant levels of of the ability to change they’re in very high level management positions and they don’t have any of this education either so they’re very reactive to policy that they want to um that they want to uh support which just happened this week with uh council member tasha kama well actually last week we didn’t even have a full week to address a a very damaging proposed bill which would have brought
10:32
maui back to the 1900s in terms of or even before that uh do we want to mention the bills specifically because i don’t think it’s been resolved yet right oh well so um on monday the day before the election uh council member comma proposed bill 12.55 which was um it was a proposed bill uh to prohibit the distribution of goods and funds in public areas without provision of wraparound services okay which to me means you you can’t help someone unless you bundle it with going into the system to try to address the problems
11:14
they’ve got you can’t just help them it becomes like it doesn’t first of all this bill doesn’t it doesn’t make any sense for anybody who knows what these terms are okay so um because what what it goes on to do is to explain the things you can and cannot do where you can and cannot do them how many days you have to request permission before you can and cannot do them it is against every nature of being a human being and so i want to there’s there’s a couple of things that are really
11:44
important here is one it was introduced the day before the election i don’t understand why anybody would introduce any legislation the day before an election i i think about the united states how absolutely wild it went when the supreme court nominee happened how many months ahead of time because it was still it was during election time so it is it is so uh it goes against every value system to put any ledges anything in the day before an election because you may win you may not win so that’s another that’s actually another
12:18
competition it speaks to the of course of course really um yes i don’t think of her as a political i i actually think she really wants to help maybe she’s just i don’t this there’s nothing in here that has any guidance from the others in council that said oh this isn’t the right time we should they don’t there was no council taken from anybody else that we can see and she did not vet this through corporation council which every proposed bill is required to go through and make sure that it is a legally
12:55
valuable document and she didn’t do that okay so i i am i’m not the the behavior does not indicate that this was something that was on the up and up okay it’s not and um and there’s been a lot of kindness given to this individual who throughout this entire pandemic has not once stepped down to the encampments which share your mana has been nurturing for all of this time there has been we have had community meetings we have had um open invitations to anybody to come this is her district this is her
13:34
backyard and not once has she come down to talk with people to see what they need she has supported the county turning off the water and closing the bathrooms and people that have no other options so this is that when you look at the series that’s confusing to me only in that i’ve seen her being really compassionate and also super interested i went to a meeting there and it was all it seemed like all different agencies and county people but where was this this was in um in front of the old safeway building in
14:15
kahului this was last year mayor victorino was there i did not get an invitation or i was not made aware of this meeting well and and it was a public open meeting about it but then nothing ever really happened from that i almost felt like it was all the agencies saying okay we all have to work together on this and it was put together by tasha and i thought that there would be more so i was shocked to see this bill and then to hear you digest it this way just doesn’t fit something’s wrong maybe i i really don’t
14:48
want to defend her but i know that she would like to get it right i’m sure after this this is so far beyond getting it right that everybody i i hear so much tasha is doing that and i i you know i have asked council member comma i have put forward share your mana has put a lot of time into trying to work together and yet um it got no response silence rate absolute silence and every time that share your mana has tried to coordinate something it is i’m we don’t get the invitation we don’t know what’s
15:26
going on we’re not considered part of the team so i just need you to understand from the point of view from somebody who has been working you know sometimes 18 hours a day to provide health and safety for community members um i’m not seeing any of it get to these this these individuals and like i said how can this council member support cutting off bathrooms and water during a pandemic that doesn’t sound possible but i don’t believe it is possible it’s unbelievable and we have to make
15:59
videos to demand to get it back and send it out on public me on public media to is she the decision maker or was that the kind of like the mayor who says close the bathrooms in parks and rec well so that’s another piece of bringing um more interesting uh dialogue into this is um sure your mana has probably i don’t even know how many times we’ve contacted the mayor’s office i don’t know how many times we’ve we’ve submitted petitions we’ve requested assistance i’ve put in
16:31
suggestions and never once during this entire pandemic has shared your monogatan a reply back okay not even a thank you for your call we are looking into it i i don’t want to say i’m shocked i know we live in a world that uh uh i’m afraid falls painfully short of showing their mana sharing their mana well the the what i’m trying to illustrate is if this is leadership that is dedicated to bringing community input share your mana is the only one who has also made videos because people don’t have like we’re on
17:12
zoom people don’t have the capacity to be on any of these meetings they don’t have the capacity to go online and fill applications out they don’t have the capacity so they are completely left behind completely left behind and share your mana has been out i have hundreds of videos i have shared them with council i have shared them on on the the facebook page i’ve shared them so that their voice can be heard and i can tell you what they experience compared to what you are hearing is
17:41
shocking shocking the those sound bites in the nice little meetings that our county is is putting forward to say oh we’re doing everything it is not what these individuals are experiencing and that’s why you know i turned up the the volume on this and um i you know again invite and welcome council member kama she apparently is going to have a talk story but you have to email her to get on the invitation list and i don’t even know if people even know that this press release went out i got it
18:17
the day before the meeting and i couldn’t make it the next day and then the following day i saw the newspaper article about it but the council that was the council meeting this is no no no there’s actually a so in that in that open in that letter that came the evening before which i did receive there was a line which i responded to saying yeah i’d like to go to that question and answer i thought that was a little odd that there was a question and answer after it was in front of the council but
18:49
right right i didn’t particularly understand that but yeah i mean hidden in this letter i’m not really hidden but in a letter it was you had to read two pages to get to this and um it’s and you have to like i said you you have to request being a part of it it isn’t something made available to everyone so now do i know if the email goes through do i know if they re you know do the what if they just don’t respond to me it doesn’t have a date or time on when this proposed question and answer is
19:20
we have no information you know that kind of stuff um when i’m you know like when you you’re in even high school students know that you put a date and a time when you have a meeting and that you it is open like these are these are i cannot believe that this is an accident that this is this information is not shared and all of these extra steps are put in to make you have to follow up and that is cumbersome that is not good i’m surprised just like you said that it wasn’t put in front of
19:52
the corporation council before it was brought up i don’t know where the help why the help if you will that has had experience didn’t counsel her to to put something more meaty in the letter it does seem a little odd i i always wonder about intent i know i’m i’ve been confused before i was thinking really that she’s she’s reached out to me personally again there’s been not effective help there’s been no help and i’ve spoken to the director of this and the director of
20:28
that and the assistant director and sometimes when i spoke to them they say i think i spoke to you before a year and a half or two years ago the problems are still existing they keep on and i wonder i mean you talk about this letter how i can’t imagine someone would put out a letter talking about a question and answer thing after it already was sitting at council once talking about it and not tell people about it and not be made public in a bigger way and it becomes very uncomfortable to bring these points up as if you’re
21:08
criticizing someone and i’m not criticizing but what i’m trying to get everyone to pay attention to is equations there are ways that all of us know to do things efficiently and with um with welcomeness and encompassing all needs and there are ways to make it look like you’re doing that and being ineffective and it is the responsibility once you you’re an elected office to check these boxes this is not just some little club that you know you do on the side these are people’s lives this is the
21:44
health and safety of individuals that have been so far um even marginalized during these times their their lives i am watching people deteriorate in front of my eyes i had three people last week that were suicidal that i had to sit in their pain their refusal to call anybody they’re they’re so far deteriorated that i can sit and try and call the access line which i have done with the last time i did it uh about four months ago ended up in the person hanging up being so frustrated with the person on the other end
22:21
that no help came um which you are familiar with uh that you know i i there’s just fire everywhere and there are you know i’m trying to i think the community is starting to become extinguishers by by looking at things more critically and not defending um behavior that is not helpful that is actually dangerous to people’s health and so by the community showing up in literally like four days to voice their opinion on this bill this proposed bill goes to the testimony that people are starting to
23:01
understand these equations and that we are we want healthy equations in our community we do we do not have any time uh to support or even allow this this type of uh yeah behavior all right yeah and it needs accountability and there needs to be there needs to be a public apology how far off base and how actually dangerous this bill was there needs to be a public statement by her office what happened like why why did you try to move this through during an election week why you know where every there’s so much
23:42
this isn’t even just a normal election our presidential election weighed heavily this isn’t just politics anymore it has gone into these very difficult personal um levels so it wasn’t just an average year where i voted and i’m like oh yay or oh no i mean people are hinged on their their health their personal health with this that said there is i there’s just too many things that are so really um unacceptable about this that it it it requires i mean sure your mana is is looking into asking
24:23
um council member tama to comma to step down from the chairmanship of the affordable housing committee because she is in charge of the care of this community and this is reckless this was reckless um not just poor it wasn’t poorly worded it’s it was dangerous and so i’m we’re going to seek and um move forward on requesting that she either stepped down or that um she’s removed from the chairmanship this is this we cannot this is not the kind of leadership that it is inclusive
24:57
or healthy for our entire community do we have anyone in our community that in your opinion has an awareness of this equation that could help make things better that you yeah so um over the course of the pandemic there have been several council members who have reached out to share your mana and have welcomed share your mana reaching out to them and it has resulted in some really wonderful events councilmember shane sinensi uh came to the very first before waihata was swept and there were probably about 15 20
25:36
people living in that area there’s a there’s a company waihata that has a building um on lower beach road near uh i guess that whatever let me rephrase it it was an encampment it doesn’t matter it was cleared out by the police there was a major event yeah you’re on maui okay yeah and uh that was before it was before that it was yeah so we invited and um and coordinated councilmember sinensi coming down with his assistant gary and i ask them to come listen and come just listen to how people are
26:16
living and to pay attention to your body when you walk in to their home it’s their home they don’t own it you know i don’t believe in owning land i believe we are caretakers i do believe in that i’m culturally based that way a bit but this is their space that that that provides them a little bit of sanctuary and everybody knows each other so they came and they brought of course some food which would have been illegal under councilmember kama’s proposed bill and um we sat and ate lunch together in the
26:51
dirt in the whipping wind i mean the wind whips across it um it is really dirty it is hot it must have been 90 plus degrees the sun is beating there’s no shade anywhere there’s no shade and um remember this is actually where the uh county has a line for the sewage treatment the sewage treatment trucks are coming in all the time it’s uh it’s it’s a it’s a difficult place to physically be and they sat for about two hours and listened to people’s needs and they paid attention to how their
27:30
bodies felt in in this space and that they were aware that people were had no shade that you would you would climb into an abandoned car to get shade if you lived there or you would sleep there um but there’s no water you have to like how do you get water and it’s so dry and it’s so uh dirty like how do you wash your dishes how do you do any of your laundry how do you like how do you cook in and they sat and they listened and they left going wow wow and they left saying thank you thank
28:03
you thank you and as a result it has opened up a lot of dialogue and the amount of hope that they brought to those community members still goes on we i took notes we have we had a formal agenda and they have so much pride in that day and it was it was an exchange of pride and that we’re inviting you into the space and you are receiving us into this space and vice versa and to to be somebody who can um be the connector of those very very um vulnerable spaces it was gorgeous and so i have to say
28:43
that that has inspired a lot of dialogue with that um council member council member senancy’s office so that’s that’s really really exciting that that happened also that go ahead yeah okay no go ahead those residents yes i when i hear that i i think to myself that was beef a while ago and now but what’s happened to help those people find a place to be you kick them out and tell them to go where walk into the ocean until you can’t stand anymore and then just let go it doesn’t seem like there’s any way
29:23
that i see that they’re helping people it it’s an overflow there’s not enough services the the things they have don’t fit together there’s no work program housing program a plan any of that i don’t see any of that yeah and i don’t think i’m not qualified but surely this problem there’s some input that could happen i i know shane senancy i know how passionate he is what happened from that or i i don’t know what’s going on after it is there is that why we need a new head
29:58
to this department exactly because the council member comma is the one who is charged with moving all of these issues forward these issues have all been brought forward to her since even before the pandemic okay so we have been in this pandemic for how many months now nine months good long while like i’m going to call it february march yeah exactly so and what has really what has happened since then what what kind of legislation is is moving forward who are the players in those dialogues and again
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one of the things that i mentioned earlier was silence and i we were i was on a meeting uh a statewide meeting on monday and on the statewide meeting our department of housing and human concerns david nakama who never ever everyone puts their pictures on they never put their picture on like they they either are only their voice or sometimes they call it it’s the strangest they don’t you can’t even see them which i think is metaphorical for the silence is you don’t if you can’t
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even see me you can’t hear me it’s it’s it’s a very interesting thing you’ll you’ll notice you go to these meetings oh you mean at the meeting they don’t have they’re they’re not up there they won’t put their picture up yeah no all the other islands have their representatives in talking like we are and you have your picture you have your video but they don’t show up um but he he did manage to use his voice and in in his voice he said very clearly that there is no um
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there doesn’t seem to be any increase in homelessness and in tasha kama’s bill and council member thomas bill as the affordable housing chair which encompasses unsheltered she states that there is an increase in homelessness so how in the same week can you have the agencies that are supposed to be working closely together saying completely opposite things yeah okay so these are the kinds of things that um people don’t follow share your mono follows all of this because trends and equations are the basis for
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data which can inform us to help make better decisions and we don’t have any department we don’t have any agency really um that i can find noting this type of you know data or even creating like having um really objective ways of of capturing data so that’s another um dynamic in this is that you can’t make informed decisions if we don’t have data and we all know the point in time count is coming up and the point in time count has in on maui flawed in so many ways on oahu for years they’ve
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got you know they use tablets they go out and they talk to people they put the data in immediately into the sites we on maui have page papers that we have to hand write out and we actually have to go drive them in every day and then somebody inputs it and you know like the amount of time and energy that is put in and waste and wasted continually wasted when we have footprints on how to do this efficiently and effectively and that will move us into the century that are and you know for a year for
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years i’ve been advocating for this and um it has not been well received in the maui homeless alliance that you know we i have to stop right there that is the biggest i don’t know maui homeless alliance was i it was a joke i had to stop going because i thought what an impotent group isn’t someone doing something here well again so there is no um there is no oversight this uh the my homeless alliance has over the years continued to lose membership um significantly i actually looked i i
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counted from even the last couple of years and that is because it you know um like 10 years ago when i really started getting into and developing share your before i would even share your mana i developed and chaired i believe almost every single um committee and um really worked towards doing community education two times we did those community we had like 90 100 people i did community education on you know the different types of homelessness how people interact with those different how the agencies and then i became so
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exhausted and frustrated with every time i put a suggestion together for example when i was the advocacy committee chair and advocated to have two of our um homeless alliance um members go over to the oahu the meeting that they have every month their monthly meeting their their homeless alliance meeting which is called pick partners in care and it was you know a 300 investment i had spoken to everybody at pick they would not only they were going to drive us to and from the airport they were going to provide lunch
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it was all set up and the maui homeless alliance and mod especially said this isn’t a good time for it this was years ago and i said what this was when there was so much legislation going through about um you know criminalizing homelessness and the sweeps and it to be able to have been aligned with pip on that level would have been specular and and in fact by the time the um the vote went up even my committee members voted it down and and i said why would you even we put hours and hours into this i spent you
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know connecting with pic asking for their support and then you would you know back down during the meeting and because it was you know mod was clear that she didn’t think and so ever people just fell into place and i know i’m speaking out but the the public needs to understand the dynamics and why these decisions are being made and um and that it is really my experience in if you challenge an issue it is seen as challenging the person so there’s there’s this lack of um of decorum in meetings where bringing
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up an issue that is um controversial is seen as a personal attack and it’s not seen as let’s identify the issue and so it becomes somehow it becomes personal and people become you know how could you say that or do that and it really becomes i mean there’s enormous anxiety in that meaning i couldn’t i couldn’t be there because i found it very hollow i would stare across the room and you were up there in the front talking and we’d see things going on it just didn’t seem possible that these people
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were somehow meant to be the ones to help eliminate homelessness and to coordinate it was a it was a joke to me it was a sad joke but a joke because i was new and who am i this outsider to this circle of agencies that were talking was just uh it was it was a very well that also brings up the issue that um certain agencies that are really bound by contracts that have very narrow limits you see this all day long they tie their hands and they say we can’t do anything because it’s not in our contract that is
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exactly why share your mono was founded is that i we i see all of these limitations that agencies have and that they don’t work to have um a flexible arm uh and that’s why and i thought sure everybody was such a great idea because then i’m not bound by i don’t have any government or county and i don’t i’m not seeking or interested in any type of monies other than community um monies because then we can be nimble and then we can say okay you don’t have this let’s help with
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it you know like how do we how do we support that but it has not been it is not um been seen that way and it hasn’t necessarily been welcomed that way so i i continually work at trying to get the message that this is about really um and all the people in the community that want to help and have the ability to help they have we have an obligation to make this a fabric of professional community individuals who are going through it where is their voice um governmental like how do we weave all of this together
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for strength and um i don’t think that that is a goal of that group of people so they’re not going to be your target audience that i i i can’t forget when i was at that meeting when as i was told that you see all these people here their agencies demand their be here and if they don’t be at these meetings they’re gonna lose funding there was just it was like okay here’s our meeting it was just a horrible experience it made me and can you imagine if you were a homeless person coming to a meeting
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like that because you were interested in what’s going on there it was very difficult to get anyone in that wasn’t somehow i don’t want to say corporate was it was crazy well that’s why i share your mana always when i you know would bring people and sit side by side and um prep them beforehand prep them after because the language that’s used in that meeting is very off-puttish especially it’s a very us and them dialogue and again i don’t think that people are aware that our language has
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evolved to be more encompassing and to be more person-centered and and and that that there’s not that that group doesn’t there’s nothing that they’re not emerging into anything they’re maintaining what they have so in that perspective it isn’t a it’s probably not the best use of your time which is why i’m going to invite you to come to join an alliance that share your mana is um rolling out actually this week and it is going to be based on the voices of the individuals who are going through
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this and then we will invite community members and then we will invite agencies but first and foremost um we’re going to create a platform uh where people get their voice out and um that is i think central and to the equations that share your mana and i know that you have a core value in which is person-centered recovery and not agency center like you don’t have to fit into what the agency is offering the agency needs to fit into what your needs are so we’re really going to focus on
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that in the next several weeks uh i always at this point yeah i mean i say at this point what always gets to me is all these meetings but these people every day you know it they’re suffering every day and it’s like what this is a crisis an emergency why aren’t we dealing with it like an emergency why if we go to war in a rock we can build a camp even for the enemy in two days put tents up and bathroom facilities why aren’t we dealing with this crisis why aren’t we doing that may i ask you why do you
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think where do you think the buck stops where do you think the ultimate leadership lies in this dialogue where do i think it is the mayor is like i i’m the king let me make some directives if the president can make executive orders why isn’t someone thinking of this as an emergency that’s what to me it is i don’t go to the mayor’s office to talk i try to be respectful and talk to all these people and i end up seeing you a lot because you’re there you’re there with people that the
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public is afraid many of them to go near some of these homeless people when they’re some of the most giving and wonderful people that we have in our community they can have nothing and share it with you yeah most people will share there’s a lot of boundary issues yeah but shocking to me and i know i’m a little off subject here maybe but i’m seeing people suffering where it’s a nightmare every day it’s like being at war constantly trying to just survive a day and people are looking at them like
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they’re some problem instead of helping them why jason i do believe share your mana is seeing we are seeing the fruits of the efforts of all the years that you have worked and all the years that i have worked in all the year there’s there are so many good people in the community who quietly go about assisting very quietly and i think that’s why we all came out hard fast on this proposed bill is those are the people that aren’t going to show up on these meetings those are the people
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they’ll just go out they’ll they’ll quietly break the law at night or something you know like they’ll do they’ll find a way there are maui has a very very generous heart and what it needs is the education to understand why this issue is not being championed as how do we help and what we you had a fringe on top like a circle yeah i’m in a shed sorry and so i think i i want to get back to this being um a sound by that we don’t hear from our leadership whether it’s mayor victorino whether it’s lori suhako
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who is the director of housing and human concerns and she was going to be her department was going to be the the overseers of this bill they were going to be the ones that you have to go to to get permission to do so they are they are just as aligned and culpable on this then and then and anybody and so i we really need to examine and demand that our leadership take this seriously and um like the amount of time and energy it takes to survive under the conditions people are in people who make judgments about people
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using drugs and i’m like when they go into shelter wherever you’re not allowed to drink you’re not allowed to smoke anything i don’t really know too many people on maui that don’t have a beer and don’t smoke something once in a while and if that is something that you have to completely give up after being in trauma and that is a way that you medicated yourself it is in direct conflict with physiologically even what you’re you’re going to go through you’re going to go
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through withdrawals i am in contact with somebody who thank god named me as their next of kin and it was in you know the icu over the last nine days from they went they got help and they had um alcohol uh detox and it was so severe that they were like they were in a coma and if they didn’t have the icu 24 7 for nine days um they wouldn’t be here and they are actually very lucky to be here the general public and even our agencies don’t in my opinion address the real physical needs of the in even the
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emotional trauma that you go through every day just trying to find bathroom shower drinking water hope someone’s gonna show up with some food or you can you know how do you get to the food bank and if your food gets stolen and and people steal it give it to other people too that’s i mean when you start to see the cycles of how people operate under these conditions it’s it’s it’s both um heartwarming and uh like so frustrating uh because a lot of people steal to give to other people to help them
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but they don’t realize that now they’ve jeopardized somebody else and it’s this their cycles that go on but if you don’t address those root issues when housing or shelter is offered to people and recognize how deeply ingrained people are in these behaviors to survive and they don’t just evaporate when there is a roof over you those kinds of behaviors don’t just go away or those needs or those cravings don’t just go away just because there’s a roof over your head and there needs to be and talk about
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wrap around services there are no like there are no wraparound services that are done efficiently or effectively here on this island that i can see anywhere so what can we do in the short term i know you’re going to talk about changing of legislation but what can we do right now i keep thinking i mean i see someone who can’t walk is getting no help is being told to shoo shoo shoo leave because the public doesn’t want you here and the the police if they have nowhere to go it’s like
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what do we do in the short term i know that’s why i call it an emergency i expect somebody to take charge and help people really get and i don’t know what to do what would you like to do what would you like to do i’d like to immediately start building emergency housing and basic services so there’s a place to go to the bathroom and shower and stay clean a place to be clean and safe where the people there are often out of the elements and then give them some training on basic things in what
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directions and a feeling of responsibility and community and then shift it into something more permanent where they feel like they’re contributing and can rebuild their lives that’s what i’d like to see happen that doesn’t take a lot of money i don’t know why they keep saying it doesn’t actually and and you know um there are uh so many different entry points on oahu anybody who even just spends a little bit of time looking over how oahu over the last five years has really ramped up its efforts to
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reach so many different types of needs uh you you’ll see that you know they even started a tiny house village that went up in in it went so it went up so quickly and it was kind of one of the things that share your motto keeps asking for and asking lieutenant governor josh green and um others is to help this happen on maui got it turned into a competition where different agencies and groups of people decided they were all going to pitch in for a tiny home so say you got five of your friends and you
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were all you know they were doing it for less than twenty thousand dollars and they were kind of competing against you know another group of friends that you have that came together or an agency you know or a business that said we’ll sponsor and they all got together they’re building these tiny homes you know they have basic specs they’ve got to maintain but they were they were it was being donated the time the resources and that stuff was all being donated by the community they were
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physically doing it they were showing up and building this home on on this on whoever’s piece of and then they would you know drive it over to where it was going to be on this designated land and it it went it it it was like it was on fire how beautiful and how community uh based it was in terms of supporting it because it’s a great footprint and um and we can’t seem to i i can’t seem to get going here on maui because we have leadership that is not that is not looking at this we we don’t
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have a department of housing and human concerns that actually um seems to recognize this so i think you’re right the the the energy has to be put on asking the mayor and human concerns to step up and let’s do this we need to do this find the land and we’ll do the rest and share your mana will happily help coordinate all of this and happily communicate with um the agencies on oahu that made this successful and they’re you know they’re successfully doing this and we could do this in every moku we
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could do it at every region and don’t forget about molokai and lanai that never get brought up in conversation you know and that they are just kind of like oh we just don’t even talk about their needs well you know i’m afraid to talk about these neighbor islands because it’s uh well they’re not they’re our county they’re not even neighbor islands right it’s our they’re our neighbors there are there are the levels of services on molokai and the people i i don’t
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people that are suffering there and that the community wants gone and they’re struggling and the agencies and the the interpersonal things that happen there you know i don’t want to point it but i can’t help it these council people that are there that are part of the problem it’s just such a weak well even on a smaller at a more really tactile level um there are several encampments that have used tires and so one of the um discussions that we’ve had is we want to start even just mini gardens
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so maybe help organize some a couple of groups that could get a truckload of dirt and help fill these tires and people can plant some vegetables you know or some leafy green anything and then but we would also have to recognize that they need water so we would have to have volunteers come down and bring some water or i’m gonna stop you because there are technologies in fact i’m gonna have a guy i’m gonna speak to saturday he was on our show before you can get water from the air you can
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he’s talking about right housing they do with with concrete and other crete you can put up housing in no time at all so we don’t have to rely on the old model there are new models like you said it’s like nobody’s well and there are actually traditional models that hawaii culturally has not included in the vision which is i there are so many individuals that i have met that um born and raised maui and they are so connected to the land to the aina and it is not a part of their fabric
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to live in an ohana or live in an apartment it is not part of their culture and that never gets any credence and that is the piece that uh also needs to be recognized in this is that you can make shelter safety places to live out of recycled materials out of materials from the land um shane nancy’s uncle was training people how to build places in hawaiian style for years yeah so there’s rich important solutions that are just within our grasp if we would like you say i don’t know maybe that’s
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what your job is how do we start this how do we stop our accusing and have everyone that’s right in this feel like they can be part of the solution they’re in place how can we create a a little bit of more love in the way we approach i don’t know what do you think what what are you going to do i think that that has been um my personal vision for the entire time that i’ve been on maui is how to approach issues as issues and not as a personal this is a personal flaw or failing and um and i’m still learning i’m always
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learning and i will continue on the path that encompasses health and safety for all residents that’s just always going to be the vision and i’m not afraid to ask those tough questions or the questions that i know are going to be perceived as an attack and they’re perceived they are not an attack i’ve even asked people many times what language would you like me to use to convey this thought that is that that feels more natural to you and i get silence i get silence you gotta people have got to come to the
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table with an open mind and an open heart and um the ability to be governed by both of them in a very respectful way that has healthy outcomes and we will just keep i do believe that this pandemic has been an extraordinary opportunity and it has allowed share your mana to engage a much broader audience because it has taken away the fluff in our life and helped people get down to the basics and that has been a absolutely gorgeous experience all of the tears and all of the the frightening being in the hurricane
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and getting the gary who’s a double amputee out of the tent on the right you know getting him into a van like it was whipping rain and he had nowhere to go and i mean we are forever bonded in such a beautiful way that um the dedication that i am feeling now towards this vision and mission is so much stronger and healthier and we just have to keep being that beacon of when something doesn’t feel right or isn’t right we just have to respectfully speak up and we have to respectfully acknowledge the people who are
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in these roles are responsible for this care and if they are not acknowledging it we must ask them and if they cannot do it then we need to find somebody that can do it and that is that isn’t i i feel very strongly about that responsibility so i i know we’ve we’re talking a lot here what are some important points you want to be sure to hit when we’re sitting here to our audience and then i’d like to really get an idea of what we can do all of us to help this problem with no agencies
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what can we do well i think it’s really important to engage each day knowing that maui has a big heart and it does and it also requires once your heart is open to take action steps and no matter how radical it may seem for this environment i can assure you it’s already been done somewhere it’s already been said somewhere it’s not radical to the world but it may be in your household or it may be in your community but i would like to assure you that um it’s really important to address it in within your
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community within your church within whatever um however you interact with the community if you don’t interact with the community please sign up and please email lisa it’s shareyourmana.org so that we can welcome you into our community dialogues discussion and action steps um jason as well if you can even inspire one person today to talk about or to get on and listen to your show about how to capture water and that they could maybe be a liaison to share your mana and that we can you know try this out in
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one of the encampments like that right there that connection and and to stay on the trail of your vision you know don’t you please stay engaged every day if you need to rest rest but please come back to your vision and stay active in the goal no matter what that even if it’s just one phone call to council member comma or if it’s to the you know to the mayor and again you may not get calls back but what do you do about that that’s where creativity will well that’s where i you know i mean that’s where
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this show uh why are we controversial we’re controversial because if we had someone here with us like tasha kama we could get into dialogue and we’re not i don’t like attacking without finding solutions and that’s what you do you like to come together and find solutions so well i’m very happy i share your mana would be honored to be on a zoom with councilmember kama to ask her any of these questions or get her inside and maybe give her some counsel and direction that’s why i keep
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thinking that the people that are involved have a heart i mean i’m talking specifically her i know she cares so how this is getting to be such a challenging bill and that it could come out like this shocks me and i guess it shocks me only because for example before elected into office she was out helping people all the time how that this could suddenly be get twisted in this way and guide i don’t get that i don’t really understand we need to hear from her and we have not heard from her and in fact
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during the entire council meeting she did not speak really yep she didn’t say why she didn’t and nobody asked other council members spoke on her behalf she didn’t speak silence silence silence is an action wow and anybody who supports that silence is complicit and we i need to understand the significance of that that’s pretty it’s it’s very heavy and it’s a blanket that is invisible but it informs decisions so it’s i would i would pay attention to that what if people uh out there that
01:00:22
uh are in these agencies can they do anything more or are they stuck by the system well my experience is a there’s they they say they’re stuck by the system nobody’s stuck by the system i have left many jobs because i’ve seen i as a human being i do not want to be stuck by a system and um the the flip side to that is people are really dependent upon these incomes in their lives the the everyone everyone is aware of the terror if you don’t have income on this island that you are going to end up
01:00:55
out there out there and it is filled with terror it is not filled with joy and love and light and i see a lot of the unbelievable joy and love and light but there is this terror on becoming homeless here it’s you know you’re going to get citations you’re going to get harassed by the mpd you’re going to you know you’re going to end up in jail you’re going to get stolen from and beat up it’s just this horrible challenges you can’t handle it’s just yeah you’re gonna anyway and and then
01:01:26
you know you’re probably gonna end up with such acute anxiety and depression and that’s not gonna get backed so um your family’s going to i mean like there’s this whole like automatic assumption of how horrible your life so people are gonna do whatever it takes to keep their jobs and let me tell you you don’t challenge the system and this is not a healthy system you don’t challenge the system if you want to keep your job to bottom line well we can’t really do justice in this short time to
01:01:58
all the solutions but i hope you’ll come back um and talk with me and if we have others that can join in in some kind of discussion um you are such a gift to our community and thank you for holding that pillar you know i mean i go and do all kinds of other stuff but this is your focus and uh i don’t know how i respect you so totally um thank you jason i still don’t know what i want to be when i grow up so i’m with that i’m on that list also i don’t know except a good person yeah right on
01:02:41
thank you we get away from these things and we have a hole in our heart because we we want so much more to happen i hope everyone listening to this can share with lisa and me and so many others who want to do our thing if you see someone hurting help them don’t it’s not foreign if you see someone that’s needy please remember there’s think you can help them or you can reach out to share your mana reach out to me and you know like i said go to the website www.the and or email lisa shareyourmana.org
01:03:24
and ask how do i help i i get i feel calls and emails all week long from people i’ve never met even people not even from maui like what do i do how do i deal with this what do you recommend just reach out to each other and you know that’s it how do they hear about you through facebook coconut wireless is alive and well oh good lisa darcy i don’t know how to put it into simple words except i love you you are a gift to our community i know that all the people that are out there appreciate your
01:04:00
honest loving heart and that you’re standing up and starting you know us here to be more interactive and really solving the problem make those people bring them on back into our community and be feeling like they have value which they do exactly thank you jason thank you lisa i hope you’ll join us again be a pleasure all you out there please uh listen to this again and see what you want to do and call including and she’s going to get a lot of emails but that’s good because that means you guys are going to get
01:04:40
interactive lisa share your mana dot org thank you everyone we’ll see you again aloha you
