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Jason Schwartz talks with MIKE MOLINA — presently Maui County Councilmember as well as formerly serving 2001-2011 as Councilmember and 2011-19 as Executive Assistant to former Mayor. We discuss all kinds of issues regarding Council and decisions he makes from that office. 12-2-2019
Summary & transcript
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- Interview with Mike Molina, Maui County Council President
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Mike Molina explains the distinct roles between the Mayor and the County Council. The Mayor has a larger executive team, including directors and executive assistants, while most council members have fewer support staff. The Mayor proposes budgets and initiatives, but the council serves as the gatekeeper of public funds and has authority to approve, reject, or scrutinize how money is spent. Molina highlights the checks and balances system, where the council cannot directly order departments but controls funding and oversight. Political dynamics often play a role, but the system is designed to prevent abuses such as quid pro quo. He emphasizes that council members must justify budget increases by holding departments accountable for past spending. 
- [03:53 → 06:57] Changes in Public Climate and Infrastructure Challenges
Molina reflects on his long tenure since 2001 and how priorities have shifted. Initially, Maui’s focus was on tourism growth, particularly attracting high-spending tourists. Over time, tourism expanded to include a wider economic range due to short-term rentals like Airbnb, which strained infrastructure. He cites the North Shore’s traffic problems and the long-delayed state involvement in the permanent Pi‘ilani bypass project. Current efforts aim to have community-driven planning rather than state-imposed solutions, modeled after the Lahaina bypass project. Funding and community consensus remain major hurdles, with estimates of a few more years needed before progress. - [07:33 → 10:36] Council Member Workload and Public Engagement
Council members are technically “part-time” but often dedicate full-time hours, balancing other jobs or personal responsibilities. Molina himself returned to substitute teaching to stay connected with youth and community. He notes how today’s students are much more questioning of authority than in the past, reflecting broader societal changes. On the council, he chairs the Governance, Ethics, and Transparency Committee, which handles confirmations, legal issues, and proposed charter amendments. He stresses his approachable style and commitment to serving the public, contrasting with past experiences of unresponsiveness. - [10:36 → 15:30] Council Committee Process and Housing Initiatives
Molina explains the council committee system as the primary venue for decision-making and vetting priorities before full council votes. Typically, committee votes align with final council votes. Housing is the top issue, with the council able to pass resolutions encouraging the mayor to declare emergencies, but actual emergency declarations rest with the mayor. Molina has championed housing-related charter amendments, including an affordable housing fund and a first-time homebuyers assistance program 
- designed to help overcome down payment barriers. He stresses the importance of a “toolbox” approach, combining multiple strategies to address both housing and homelessness, with state and county cooperation needed.
- [15:30 → 20:15] Public Meetings and Challenges in Homelessness Solutions
Molina recalls a public meeting at the old Safeway parking lot addressing homelessness, noting that despite wide participation, concrete actions were lacking. He has publicly called for decisive action and criticized delays, stressing the need to use county resources and lands more effectively. The council has increased funding for housing, but progress requires collaboration with the administration. He also highlights the severe housing cost crisis on Maui and the tight rental market, where tenants face exploitative situations with little recourse. - [20:15 → 25:43] Zoning Changes and Public Participation
Molina discusses legislative efforts to allow more Ohana (secondary) dwellings by reducing minimum lot sizes and enabling multiple Ohana units on a single property to increase housing supply. He notes the limited public speaking time at council meetings and variable flexibility, but values public input in shaping policy, often incorporating citizens’ suggestions into legislation. He acknowledges the challenge of digesting long council meeting videos and minutes, expressing interest in more accessible summarized documents for public understanding. He encourages ongoing public participation and dialogue as essential to effective governance. - [25:43 → 31:03] Respectful Civic Discourse and Personal Philosophy
Molina advocates for respectful, non-combative conversations in politics, lamenting the recent rise in personal attacks within Maui politics. He maintains a down-to-earth, approachable demeanor and credits his political family background for instilling a sense of public accountability. He stresses that elected officials are there to serve the people, not themselves, and encourages voters to engage constructively and respectfully with government. 
- [31:03 → 34:50] Potential Charter Amendments: City Manager Form of Government
Molina outlines discussions about a possible shift to a city manager government, where a professional manager would handle day-to-day administration, and the mayor’s role would become more ceremonial. This model is contrasted with the current system where the mayor appoints department heads subject to council approval. He notes concerns about accountability, cost (city managers are often highly paid), and shifts in power dynamics, particularly that the council would have more influence over the manager. He supports putting the issue on the ballot for public decision but remains undecided personally. - [34:50 → 40:25] Wailuku Civic Center Redevelopment and Economic Considerations
The Wailuku Civic Center project is a source of debate due to its cost and potential impact on the town’s character. Some residents fear gentrification and rising property values could displace existing residents or small businesses. Molina notes the area’s blight issues and the potential benefits of beautification and economic revitalization, including the possible addition of a small boutique hotel aimed at business travelers. Decisions on zoning and height limits are ongoing, with a focus on balancing growth with community character and affordability. - [40:25 → 46:31] Housing Affordability and Tax Incentives
Molina emphasizes the severity of Maui’s housing affordability crisis, urging innovative approaches such as tax incentives for landlords who keep rents affordable and encourage long-term rentals over short-term vacation rentals. He highlights ongoing county discussions on restructuring real property tax to be more equitable, acknowledging the complexity of comparing Maui’s taxes to mainland systems due to differences in tax structure and services. He warns of growing inequality and the risk of Maui becoming exclusively affordable to the wealthy. He advocates for equity-sharing models where landowners and buyers can share investment to improve affordability. - [46:31 → 48:50] Public Involvement and Contacting Officials
Molina encourages the public to engage both the mayor’s office and council members with ideas and concerns. He stresses the complementary roles of these offices and recounts how constituents sometimes must call multiple offices to get responses. He values transparency and availability, encouraging citizens to not hesitate to reach out to elected officials. - [48:50 → 52:56] Education and Youth Engagement
As a teacher, Molina relates the importance of educating youth about government and civic responsibility. He encourages respectful dialogue and hopes to inspire future leaders to participate constructively. He notes that young people today are more vocal and question authority, which can be a positive force if channeled well. 
- [52:56 → 53:37] Corporation Counsel and Legal Conflicts
Molina discusses the challenge of the Corporation Counsel office serving both the mayor and council, which can lead to conflicts of interest, citing the Lahaina injection wall legal dispute as an example. He supports a charter amendment to provide the council with its own legal counsel to avoid such conflicts and improve accountability. - [53:37 → 53:57] Final Message: Voter Participation and Collaboration
Molina’s closing message stresses the importance of voter turnout, noting that close elections prove every vote counts. He encourages respectful cooperation among officials and citizens, inviting the public to remain engaged and involved in shaping Maui’s future.
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- Key Highlights and Core Insights:
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- The Mayor-Council relationship is balanced by checks and balances, with the council controlling financial oversight.
- Infrastructure and housing remain critical challenges amid Maui’s rapid growth and changing tourism dynamics.
- Public participation is vital, but current engagement methods (e.g., 3-minute testimony) can limit deeper input.
- Housing initiatives include affordable housing funds, first-time buyer assistance, and zoning reforms to increase density.
- Homelessness remains a pressing issue requiring coordination between county and state, plus political will.
- Proposed charter amendments, such as moving to a city manager form of government, present complex trade-offs.
- Economic development projects like Wailuku Civic Center face tension between revitalization and gentrification fears.
- Tax incentives for landlords and equity-sharing models offer potential pathways to improve housing affordability.
- Transparency, availability, and respectful civic discourse are essential to effective governance.
- Legal conflicts between council and mayor offices suggest a need for independent legal counsel for the council.
- Voter engagement and education, especially among youth, are crucial for sustained democratic health on Maui.
This comprehensive summary preserves the original structure and content depth, providing a clear, detailed understanding of the interview with Council President Mike Molina on Maui governance, housing, and community challenges.
Transcript
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[Music] and so you have now a whole bunch of people working for you whereas on council typically most council members you have maybe two or three executive assistants whereas the mayor you have executive assistants plus directors and it’s a tremendous undertaking and I give credit to whoever has been or currently is mayor it is a tough job do you feel like you’re being on council gives you a or gives him also a better handling of being the mayor I would think so yeah I think so it does I guess he pretty much
00:46
can’t anticipate what may be our concern so he’ll try to uh it’s a it’s a give-and-take if you would like to call it that he you know proposes something to us because we’re the gatekeepers with the public dollar so hearing he may propose funding for this that and everything else and then it’s up to us to you know supported or not supported amongst the many other decisions he has to make and gatekeeper for the public dollar so he can say what he wants but has less discretion then he doesn’t have
01:19
does he have executive ordered power like our president he he may mean in some areas yeah and actually with the department some council members cannot dictate to the directors what they want done they can ask but ultimately that call is the mayor if I were to say to the department the director for Public Works fix that road that’s up to the mayor you know but because of the checks and balances we have more authority with their funding so if for example the department doesn’t do something that a
01:50
council member or their community wanted done then the council will certainly put the department or the mayor through a lot of scrutiny as to here why didn’t you get it done we gave you money to do this and that’s where sometimes politics gets involved so it’s somewhat complicated but no but it’s you know I mean I’m not a given our national headline yeah we can’t help but recognize no one ever understood what quid pro quo you go hurry up man and now until now hey scratch my back I
02:21
scratch your back they’ll take it out a Latin turn to Dingle sure zombie I can’t imagine that kind of stuff doesn’t happen kind of naturally mm-hmm I guess if you’re sitting in certain seats you can’t make promises or withhold funds and things like that yeah well that’s that’s the beauty of our system of checks and balances you know so you know we cannot dictate to the administration what we want then we can ask but then again if the administration wants authorization for
02:52
funding that’s where we have a little leverage to we can say well if you want this X amount of dollars what are you going to do with it you know and then you have to they have to justify it so that’s why every budget when the department comes up and ask us what funds will we’ll review the previous year okay you’re asking for more money but we gave you this amount what did you do with it and if you didn’t spend it or you spend it elsewhere and didn’t spend it like you’re supposed to in one area that’s
03:18
where they can come under a lot of scrutiny and we can you know council can just say you know what we’ll just either leave your funding level flat or maybe even reduce your funding so there’s a lot of little pieces that go into this whole budget budgeting process with a lot of jockeying back and forth now you’ve been on count when did you first start on the council the year the year 2001 I took office okay so that’s let’s call it 18 18 19 years ago and your first council group I don’t know if I
03:53
like to describe it as you know a hawk kind of a group that was aggressively interested in construction and getting a lot of things done in a different way than now is like a very different public climate very different a lot I find a lot more transparent and new of course as time has progressed the issues have changed and I think people’s mindset I at the time when I first came onto Council it was all about tourism let’s do whatever it takes get the tours here well now here we are 18 19 years later
04:27
we have a lot of tourists and maybe a little bit too much and at the time the type of tourists we’re targeting was more with the spenders you know but now with air beam bees and all these short-term rentals now you’re bringing in tourists from all economic levels and it’s having an impact on our infrastructure and we haven’t kept up that’s the hard part as Maui’s grown you know it’s been hard to keep up with the infrastructure our road system and you know there are in my area we’ve been
04:57
waiting for how many years before the state to help us with the long-awaited permanent pyre bypass we did a temporary fix back in back in two thousand seven or eight a little mini bypass but we’ve outgrown that and popularity of the North Shore it’s just you know I’m hoping in my lifetime we get a draw well well we’re currently in the process I’m working with the community to see what we can do maybe to have it more driven by the community rather than the state telling us what’s best for us that’s my
05:26
father is this may be the county should take a more active role and a lot of our stakeholders working with the folks on Maui tomorrow haiku community association playa Merchants Association so have it really being driven by the community much like the Lahaina bypass they had that bypass group you know i i’d like to see a model like that where we can kind of you know drive it ourselves instead of having it more the state telling us this is what’s better for you that’s what we did how is this
05:55
such a thing as fast-track something like that the bottom line is uh money and years and you’re talking how much time we couple years easy couple if we’re lucky yeah I was every time I go to that direction you really have to time it or you just wait well we had an opportunity I think a couple of years ago but um it was the community is really split on the design so the state I guess pulled the plug on that design that they had so now it’s back to the drawing board so now with stakeholders
06:30
in the community and elected officials like myself and Senator English and representative decoite and even represent Yamashita trying to put our heads together to see what’s the best route that everybody can live with but we need something I’d say it’s an half a loaf is better than going on oh the state that we still my understanding is they still got an appropriation out there for us and the state from what I heard they’re looking at taxing rental vehicles adding a maybe an additional
06:57
one or two dollar surcharge so that’ll help pay for sort of like isn’t paying for that rental facility at the airport somewhat similar from what I understand kind of a yeah a per unit charge to raise the money exactly I said have you enjoyed your seat do I mean these are read and fool you got to be reading every time I see you’re off ready to another meeting almost immediately a heavy schedule of work it can’t it’s all a matter how come the amount of work you wanna put put on yourself as strange as
07:33
it may sound council members job it’s classified as part-time by the county there’s there’s no sick leave or vacation like your normal civil service job so some council members in the past and I think even our current mayor he has a side business so the Council meets every other week normally and during that off week it’s up to the member if they choose to stay in their office and meet with constituents during off week or go off and do their other jobs so you know we’ve had council members that were in
08:01
the hotel industry the insurance industry and I was a public school teacher but I gave myself full time to the job but it’s ironic how now dreamily there’s a shorty well you were a teacher to Jason right that substitute teacher a long while ago yeah I went back into substitute teaching I there’s a big need in my area and I wanted to just engage with the young folks and so I do it maybe one or two days in my off weekend I tell you Jason the kids have sure changed since I last thought yes you
08:30
know we didn’t have all of these cell phones and social media stuff Facebook’s it’s it’s quite a change there’s an adjustment for me but it’s it’s all good it’s all part of evolution and learning to adapt to change you ever ask those kids if they have any I good ideas for you yeah I have and you’d be surprised I would typically work with seventh sixth seventh and eighth graders and they’ve got some interesting things to say they do question a lot I remember at that age
08:56
you’d never question authority you know but these kids are questioning authority on a lot of things and especially on the national level so isn’t that very funny that’s not that funny I am not sure how anyone takes this but our president the big guy at the moment Trump for him to not be understanding or appreciating climate change the way the whole world is I don’t know if that trickles down here because it seems like it is clearly on the minds of the local council and I imagine the kids in school we’re all
09:32
leaving them a world that is way way out of balance and I don’t think we want to leave yet because we haven’t done our job to put things back on track we’re getting things are you what committee are you on here now you’re on a number of committees yet which one I had the government’s at governance ethics and transparency committee we deal with the confirmations of boards and commission members directors and of course any type of legal issues especially some very high-profile ones like the Lahaina
10:06
injection well issue so it’s been a busy committee and of course we’re going to be dealing with proposed charter amendments coming up so I got a full plate but I really appreciate it I enjoy it and I asked for that committee and I appreciate chair King and a fellow members support for giving me the chairmanship of that exciting committee you have such an easygoing style I very much appreciate that you’re very approachable and can people can ask you a question really straight you know
10:36
you’re not one to deflect yeah I try I try but but you know I guess so that’s part of the whole impetus as to why I ran years ago I’d asked my area council member to look into a problem never got a phone call back never got a letter or nothing and I I told my wife I remember I said you know if I ever decide to run out I will never would conduct myself like that because you’re there to serve the people you’re not there to serve yourself you’re there to serve others and I look at it as
11:06
the server so I encourage folks even if they’re not in my district if you know you can’t get ahold of your councilmember call me we’ll we’ll see what we can do to assist right well I could start off in issues and go in all kinds of different directions do you sit on numbers of committees and those committees let’s see if I understand the process in the committees is really where you decide which of the priorities in this area that need to go before the council can you guys make decisions
11:40
there at that level in any way to move things along without having to go to a full council yeah I don’t say most of the issues are settled pretty much settled in committee and by the time he gets to council its I don’t want to use it at the term formality but nothing is final until the vote is taken at council but most issues pretty much everybody will hold their vote the vote that they took in committee it usually carries over to council but of course I’ve seen instances where people have changed
12:10
their votes in committees they voted yes for something committee then when it came to council they voted knowing and vice versa so it on occasion it does happen but I would say 90% of the time the votes that are taking in committee will generally carry over into the full council I see we’ve had some really exciting things going on this year things that the council is saying we’re going to show our power and we’re gonna show our intention and have you you know I keep going back to the fact that
12:44
present mayor Victorino was on council when I spoke to one of the assistants the council they said housing is the biggest you know what kind of things can you do before it gets to a vote on council for example can you want council declare an emergency to build tents and crew take an area of land and that has to be the mayor yeah we could do a resolution encouraging the mayor to you know declare a state of emergency to the governor but yeah ultimately we’ll be the mayor who would have to declare an
13:23
emergency but but we on the council can encourage him through resolution other ways we can well it’s this is the number one issue yeah and so what we well what I did when I was on a council previously I initiated the affordable housing fund through a charter amendment and the public voted for it and that became law so that’s a funding resource for housing there and I also initiated the first-time homebuyers fun which basically if it’s set up as a lottery system if you get selected you be
13:58
eligible for a I think it was at the time maybe a $20,000 down payment that’s the hardest part for folks it’s coming up with that down to get into a house and every little bit helps I the way I see it you we have a tool box and we need to put as many tools as we can into the box to address the housing issue and then of course there’s the homeless issue as well I believe the Department right now they’re doing a the best they can with what they got what council can do is provide them the
14:25
resources and combining with the state we can help you know to reduce the housing a homeless issue and you were at that meeting at the what was that at the old Safeway oh yeah at the old Safeway out in the parking lot right and what I found interesting about that meeting was everyone around everyone around and said why they were there but nothing really moves forward I hear a lot of discussion on the surface but I didn’t hear any concrete and someone said hey what about declaring a state of emergency what
15:02
about taking a piece of land here no discussion of that kind of stuff where does that happen what was I writing you mentioned that Jason earlier in the year I my I did a piece in the Maui News I basically said it’s a call to action to the mayor is actually telling him Eric mayor we we’ve talked about this thing long enough whether it be affordable housing or housing for the homeless we got the resources we got the county land let’s start building now enough talk and enough of summits and everything else
15:30
and I’m hoping that you know my comments are used constructively and it’s not a personal attack on the administration it’s more just to lets you know it’s like the old proverbial border collie nipping at the heels of the cattle trying to keep the cattle going in a forward in the right direction even at that meeting mayor Victorino you know he mentioned so he was trying to push everyone forward but he didn’t direct it anywhere but it was a very odd well you know it’s funny I bet you base
16:00
it because at that meaty – he also put the council on notice that you know you guys are gonna help us and I think the mayor forgot that during this past budget session we added another six million so we’ve been doing our part for the administration so now we’ve given the administration of resources now taken you know run with it now so why do you have an executive assistant in charge of housing I’m pretty sure he has one might I’m not sure who it is but I would guess he’d have an EI overseeing
16:27
housing matters and homelessness you know I it’s just my opinion that’s all we are here but homelessness is one issue and a very serious issue but affordable housing we so desperately needs housing supply it’s not even that using the term affordable as an you know make sense anymore it’s just more about attainable just getting some type of shelter here on Maui who would have dreamed the cost of housing would go this also it’s through the rules for ordinary I mean and in the rental market
16:59
la the rental market is so tight people are paying extraordinary amounts of money yeah room in a house and you have landlords that are taking advantage of folks or just exploiting and I mean I mean I understand people wanting to make a dollar but my goodness try not to go so extreme and the sad part is if you have a tenant that complains or want something fixed I’ve heard their stories about landlord saying okay if you’re gonna complain too much I got ten other people waiting in line so take it or
17:28
leave it you know so the tenant is left at a real disadvantage in in this current time in Maui colony so and you guys did something by the ability for people to build more Ohayou it’s okay exactly Lucy Mercer I think the public should hear it from you yeah I think oh this is legislation that I initiated on my last term in 2010 and it wasn’t fully addressed until I believe it was last term I think but we used to it started it and who carried over into councilmember Carol’s committee but basically the old law was
18:02
you have in order to build an Ohana your lot sites had to be at least 7,500 square feet my proposal was to reduce the lot size to 6,000 so you could put in Ohana so will provide an opportunity for more people to put in Ohana and shelter people or there’d be family and what about a second Ohana is that how does that work there’s recent I thought it was recent that if you have a property you can put 200 on is now a certain size mm-hmm you know that maybe I understand it right but I assure you he’ll if we are
18:36
not gonna in if we’re not increasing the footprint and people from scratch trying to build a house now at this climate of everything is super expensive that existing rules were changed so then someone with so many square foot of property could build two separate Ohana’s and basically increase the square footage that were potentially available and have two rentals I thought that was yeah make them and that’s all I think that we’re gonna you know I keep thinking that there’s got to be more
19:12
open public discussion three minutes in front of the council you end up seeing a lot of people outside of those three minute things they’re not much yes there’s a few yeah most people would pretty much say what they have to say within that three minutes and of course depending on you have some committee chairs that are flexible some that are very rigid but it’s obvious is it you you just have to gauge it and just see how the flow of discussion goes and as long as to me the testifiers on topic you know they go
19:43
over a few seconds and it mostly get like what they think of what you’re doing or do you from the audience solutions a little both um sometimes come up with some pretty good ideas and I believe we’ve used some of their suggestions in our legislation or when formulating our own decisions whether we vote for something or not but yet we get a lot of opinions too and but that’s people’s right you know to say what they feel if they think we’re doing a lousy job by all means tell us and and
20:15
ultimately our jobs are you know hinge upon our performance and if the public wants us back they’ll show it in in the voting booth yeah I just think they need more a little bit more information I think I asked one of the assistants maybe you know the answer you know I don’t have the time to watch all the meetings and committee but what happens there someone said there’s something called dronicus what is ground oh yeah yeah that’s uh I didn’t have this this it’s basically we’ve been giving
20:47
computers or tablets on our on our desk now back in the old days we had to have these big binders full of paperwork Granicus is a system where it’s all electronic it’s all on your computer now so it’s just they say now here’s a meeting we had a meeting of the XYZ committee and it’s been on ikkaku television thank you for that kind of service but who has time to watch all these meetings it’s like is there any water someone’s taking notes on what’s going on where it can be in written
21:17
outline form for quicker digestion I haven’t seen that and I’m looking for that for exams ingestion yeah well you know I may not make it easy doing it in that I don’t know if there is a is there so much yeah there’s um yeah we do have secretaries that take minutes and of course you have the videotape of the meeting so if for the sake of keeping accurate minutes the secretary can go back and look at the videotape or the recording itself they do record no with that secretary maybe that’s the one
21:48
we’re talking about if those notes can then be either cleaned up or as they are available so someone can digest it quicker than ours and Alice bag Martha Marlen summarized minutes rather than verbatim minutes write summarize but for example test the moment by mr. or mrs. X or music and they proposed this and they say it can do that the public I mean I’m wondering at what point I always wondered do the council know these but these technologies like I honor this for example here I was talking to a shainsa
22:31
Nancy and talking about water from air units and that there’s a green power house that you can take bio waste the green waste and turn it into power for a hundred homes and I always wonder if those two if that was in the testimony or we’re doing it here where does it get kind of boiled down to when you go into an Environmental Committee meeting has someone taken the things that were being offered and digested them down sort of simplified a useable um I believe there were I’m sure a couple of instances I
23:07
can’t just recall off the top of my head I’m just trying to wonder because I like anything we as public and we’re gonna go to a break here in a minute yes public maybe I’ll talk about it more when I come back may have ideas to be able to help but there’s besides a couple of minutes in front of the council or at going on some kind of paper to someone to review it’s like where does that kind of get hashed out and penciled out and possible budget it out that’s what I’m
23:38
kind of wondering cuz as public for us to rely on the people on council to do it all i think that’s unreasonable oh no giant public that has many of the answers or could conceive of answers and to then give help to the council like you say we’re all on the same team mm-hmm and I guess the same kind of thing like then the council might recommend the mayor or maybe the public could do that also but I that’s why I’m asking it fine in this way is well I have ideas and wonder what do I do with him how do
24:15
I get it well I’ll definitely give credit to the public on some of the legislation I spoke of earlier for example the charter amendment for the affordable housing fund now we were we worked with people like Tom Blackburn Rodriguez people who are very active in the housing community the plastic bag legislation that I initiated well if it weren’t for the help from the Sierra Club and Surfrider Foundation organizations like that that helped crap they helped us craft a very good sound legislation so yes it’s hard for any
24:47
elected official to take it on take on everything because I don’t think any man or a woman though has individually has the answers to everything so which is important for our elected officials to engage with the public so we can have legislation that sound and it’s fair and a lot of the successful legislation is because of that interaction between the public and elected officials so I certainly agree with you on that point Jason so and that’s why I encourage a lot of public participation yeah I’m
25:13
thinking and also meeting people on your off week a little bit oh yeah yeah exactly you have to make time to talk talk story with people very similar and I know your time is extremely precious when that happens but I somehow I’ve seen so many people talking about solutions out there that I never want I never think how do we get this in a non combative way exactly well as used to say before let’s everybody put down your swords and let’s work together I never forgot that that’s a good one
25:43
Mason that’s a good well you know it’s really true that’s what this show is really intended to be about to talk about subjects that are sometimes a little heated but we’re not here to strike each other and and you know call someone names yeah not personalize things yeah that’s unfortunate and you know I’ve seen a lot of that in Maui politics of recently over the last several years it’s become very personal and people calling each other names and you’re not gonna get anything done that
26:12
way if you man your Molly’s still basically a small place because you who you’re insulting you know if you decided to go that route tonight that’s my cousin’s brother and sister exactly we’re gonna be back with Mike Molina our president councilman one of the nine but clearly one of the most available of the council Pete thank you accessible yeah accessible and available and you know you can I really feel very comfortable when speaking with you Mike we’re gonna be back we’re gonna start this sponsored
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ozone with me Jason Schwartz would like to sincerely thank David Bryan for his support David was founder and head of school at new Road School in Santa Monica California and as the board chair at the Ojai Foundation and on the board for brave new films the neutral zone has heard live Mondays at 11:00 a.m. here on Kak you 88.5 FM the voice of maui and again on saturdays at 7:00 a.m. as well as on TV and on Maui neutral zone dot-com get a jump of protecting Maui’s coral reefs no need to wait for Hawaii’s
27:22
new sunscreen water go in effect this is Archie kelapa asking you to make the switch today to sunscreens that do not contain reef harming oxybenzone or octane oxy find out about better choices at maui reefs argh slash sunscreen sponsored with aloha by maui nui marine resource council maui visitor’s bureau and the county of Maui office of economic development [Music] man do I love card night you ready boys you got a king come on this is the BWT Superstar titus o’neil it only takes a moment to make a moment
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take time to be a dad today learn more at 877 for dad for 1:1 or visit fatherhood.gov brought to you by the US Department of Health and Human Services in the ad code Saturday night at 8:00 and Sunday night at 9:00 on Kak you 88.5 FM we experienced dead air not that kind of dead air we’re talking Grateful Dead Grateful Dead music for an entire hour Saturday night at 8:00 and Sunday night at 9:00 with me Cory Daniels on kak u 88.5 FM hi I’m Jason Schwartz host of the neutral zone hey aku is a
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listener-supported station this means that all the great programs you hear like mine are sponsored by you as well as our underwriters if you would like to help keep the voice of Maui looking loud and clear go to kak UF m dot org slash donate today and give and don’t miss the neutral zone Mondays at 11 a.m. one 88.5 FM the voice of Maui [Music] we are back this is the neutral zone Maui neutral zone calm you can listen to this show again it’ll be up there by tonight and all the other 60 something
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shows Maui neutral zone calm you can find us on Facebook live under kak u FM the voice of Maui 88.5 you can also if you just look in YouTube and you say Jason Schwartz Mike Molina you’ll see oh I just looked up there myself I saw our interviews from way back yeah man I had a heck of a lot more hair and I was a lot lighter too those were the days in a similar hair program the lighter thing and then funny as we get older and eat the same amount don’t know if we’re not exercising our body metabolism I don’t know I looked in
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the mirror the other day and and I looked at my face and I said I don’t know if my ears are getting bigger and my face is getting smaller or what what’s going on here you know we’re just going through these physical and life changes but you know what I’m just glad the good Lord gives me a chance to wake up every day to make fun of myself well make fun of others or whatever you have a very I really very much admire you you’ve kept your very personal and social attitude and persona even though
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you’re another thing I mean sometimes people in these seats take on a whole different air than you’ve ever seen the time before yeah I’ve seen it and heard about it happening to some folks but that’s just it’s all matter of how you handle it the way I decided to handle this is just it’s not the end of the world if you have a bad day and and when you’ve been given by the grace of God this authority to serve as an elected official it’s I’ve always believed you serve the people it’s not about you
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serving yourself and and I have came from a political family and I remember when my uncles and dad we’re alive they always told me that they get into office you make sure you do what you’re supposed to do otherwise we’re going to get you before the public gets you so that’s that old-school European thought you know yeah you know we can talk about all kinds of subjects oh I’m gonna just bring one up because I know I know it’s a year away but there’s a potential for charter in them yeah good you kind of
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explore them well a couple of interesting ones that could potentially get on the ballot is the city manager format and so I believe there’s a number of folks probably on has to understand city manager means someone separate than the mayor that basically runs runs the show sure and the mayor’s power is more ceremonial so basically the city man is sort of like when you look at the country of England you have the king and the queen but then you have the Prime Minister and so the way I see this
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current format will make them mayor’s position more ceremonial but the day-to-day decision can rest with the city manager and some folks who have question having a city manager say well it’s going to cost more if you want a good city manager you’re looking at double potentially double the salary of the of the mayor so what would the mayor do in that case you know that’s a good question I’m I haven’t fully studied this stuff but I mean to me if we cannot manage your elected know
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the city manager so a ceremonial mayor and council they’re all elected but the city manager is not elected in the current model as I understand you the council will decide who will disapprove everything exactly and the question where is accountability to you know some who have argued against having the city manager format say well the the at least the public has a bigger say on who they want as their mayor or chief executive whereas the city manager format it’s I mean I I the liminal I see good in both
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the whole did the mayor have a city manager type person as a managing director right now who is the managing director and Sandy boss mhm mhm so some can argue in every different way would he have different skill set than a city manager uh again it all depends on what you’re looking for Oh same role basically yeah I mean you you make the day-to-day decisions with the department you you you the I guess the goal between the the directors and the mayor so although it’s in cheaper Sinhalese should be on the ballot let the public
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decide if they want to change they want this current system change folks who want to change our you know maybe dissatisfied with the current system and I guess it depends on who’s who’s the mayor and that’s why I had a very interesting situation I mean if we went to the new system and the council is basically the council appointing the managing director as opposed to the mayor appointed yeah the managing it’s almost like while confirming yet confirming or denying I’m saying it’s like and that shifts the
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power to the council it’s a lot like what we’re doing with the directors now we the mayor submits his nom his nominee for whatever department and we decide their fate right so with the city manager 4matic I believe that’s the same you know process very muddy yeah yeah very muddy so but but I think it’s high time for it’s been discussed a number of times but I’m okay with putting it on the ballot now how I will vote I’m not sure at that point but I think the public deserves a chance to express
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their thoughts on it and we’ll go from there well in England speaking of public and expressing thoughts like brexit oh yeah yeah I don’t know of any one kind of gets the feeling there that the public decides we want this that happens a lot here we all we want this but then when it gets down to the realities of what it’s doing it changes the system so much that it creates a logjam unattended consequence that’s gigant unintended consequences times a hundred or a thousand so I always wonder if the
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public it is you know that fun thing when Jefferson used to we talk about our founding fathers they gave a lot of power to people that were in control because they didn’t trust the public’s judgment now I almost feel like things myself it’s not that I’m an authority but I recognize that the public is quick to get them upset and riled for example I’m going to give you a very specific example about the Wailuku thing Oh Civic Center the Civic Center and the parking lot and a lot of people talking about
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what’s changing in there and how it’s going to change the complexion of Wailuku and we want to I myself have been at meetings over 20 years talking about it in public input and lots and lots and lots of discussion and here at the 11th hour they’re concerned about the changing the look and feel of while Luca Wenhua who has been looking at this a long time and saying this is what we need and now at the 11th hour public opinion gets riled on madam like you say there everyone’s allowed their own
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opinion but I’ve seen so much work going in to get to where we are now to make these hard last decisions knowing it would change the complexion but the public’s at the last minute at last a minute after all the time energy money spent years people’s dedication to finding a really solid idea plan well I knew that yeah anything in this particular instance with the what local Civic Center project and some have argued that they were misled or that they weren’t in on the process early
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enough so it’s a lot of sometimes he said versus she said but there is a it is costly I mean the I’m personally I’m ok with the parking improvements and everything else but as far as the Civic Center that’s where I guess you know I don’t say the council split on it but it’s the prohibitive cost of the Civic Center some have argued why do we want something so expensive in the town and do we want to really totally change the face of Wailuku some of our fearing that it could be another Kakaako where
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eventually you’re gonna have you know homes or property values just gonna skyrocket in the area and for those of those who are on you know unlimited means with their income it could have an impact on them so that’s kind of the big big fear out there too along with and and then again you know from the others aspect it’s like it’s a nice you know cleaning up the town and making it more presentable if you will I know I look good town for at was some years ago was really suffering from blight you know
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what’s really getting looking to really run down so it this is still a work in progress but I think the bottom line is the cost and what the neighboring residents are willing to accept and I guess some property owners business owners are gonna benefit from this and the question is now what are they gonna give back so and of course you’ve heard to talk about a hotel although the area is zoned for a hotel the question is uh how big is this hotel gonna be and I’ve heard it’s maybe 150 to 200 room hotel and so
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in the old days I remember the a I’d the old Wailuku Grand Hotel and I think it was maybe 150 when when Jonathan start bought that property many many years ago I’m sure I was part of his original plan because they looked at what was going on and and saw the potential and he was working all these years planning commission he dots his eyes crosses his T’s but but I can’t even want to admit I think there is a need for a small boutique style hotel in the area for business travelers people who come to
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the County Building or State Building to do some business so and it’s already zoned now the question is I think they’re looking at extending the height limit now too so there’s a lot of you know discussion in heart I guess our decision-making it’s gonna have to be done point is to hammer out the prices of housing going up things are just so completely out of control now I don’t know how development of our lucu could specifically anything specific about why lucu the prices aren’t cheap there now
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yeah and and what the question is are you going to attract a lot of business in that area with the so-called improvements you know Kahului is still a hub the economic hub of Yoe now do you want big box type of stores from national franchise type stores in Wailuku tone now if you get if not then what small businesses can you bring in and can they afford to pay the rents because once a private landowner makes all these improvements you know that rents are going to be high so can a small bits off or dit can the businesses that are there
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even afford it now yeah yeah that’s true me right to the point I mean the things like I said I keep wondering why I don’t hear the word emergency this is a pretty crazy thing when the item not sure again this is just personal when I hear the numbers on how many homeless there are and whatever I think there are more homeless than we’re giving them oh yeah I think the numbers we have our way not a real oh yeah and I I really also have challenged with the the rentals rates are so high what I’m hoping we can do on the council
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is provide some tax breaks for landowners property owners who are willing to keep their rents at a reasonable and affordable rate provide them some incentive instead of property owners doing short-term rentals let’s do long term and reward those who are doing long term rentals by providing them some property tax relief so I’m hoping that mitten is some that’s an upcoming discussion for us in County Rawlins Fernandez Budget Committee and she’s part of that tere group that they’re
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looking at restructuring a real property tax system to make it more equitable and fair it’s still a work in progress and I know it made news the other day some people said there’s still a lot of questions at this point the tig committee the investigative group made up of kyani Alice Lee and Tasha comma and Tamar Paulin they’ve just established a framework so nothing’s etched in stone yet it’s just establishing the framework and we have the option to go back taxing people at the old using the current system we have
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so nothing is fully etched in stone at this point but you know we welcome everyone’s input but yeah you know but you know I’ve been told our real property tax rates are low compared to other you know jurisdiction I always am told that also that people on the mainland pay really such so much higher and they often say well here in Hawaii education is the state and so that’s the reason we’ve been able to keep it low well well you know a lot of jurisdictions on the mainland why their
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property taxes are high they’re including school taxes and I think probably the rubbish picked up so that’s why I may seem a little high it’s just that we’ve got our our system is just divvied up a little more you know we have our state taxes which covers a payment our schools and then we have the slip slipping by – oh well then we were paying our separate rubbish bills and sewer bills so if you incorporated all that into one building yeah we’d have a you know big real property big tax bill
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but we also don’t have you know again wages oh yeah I exist if you look at when you are uncounseled the first time which I could go back to 88 I look at the the wages that people get for jobs and they have nowhere near kept up with phone now there’s an awesome a year remember the old thing that you should never spend more than 25% of your income on your housing and now you have people that are spending 75 it’s all the other income and people who live in Survivor you know other than pouring everything
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into your rent or more why I think of the word emergency line yeah I mean and I think we’re it’s I look at this as a a gentrification of society it’s gonna be a bigger gap between the rich and the less fortunate and eventually where Maui County could turn into a fantasy island where it’s only the rich can live here you know sort of like low-noise yeah a good example good exam is the island yeah yeah man but yeah who woulda you des and I and the day’s gonna come where the average median house price in
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malecon is gonna be a million dollars I mean it’s right now it’s what 750 thousand seven hundred fifty thousand we could take a walk on the street and see how many people can afford a house here yeah I mean I hope I never see that that number ever you know but it could happen well I always think about the idea of equity sharing where whether it’s the state or whether it’s the county or whether it’s the landowners do equity sharing with the new buyer to make it affordable the equity that the landowner
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that holds is still workable in the system for them as a resource to get more loans to create more of the things that we need we have a lot of the resources in the land and in the people that are building to make things affordable if it was an attitude that was adopted by some of the people that have these yes exactly so how do we do that do we have a open forum about that too we go to these landowners and or I go to and be or go to I don’t want to say that word a and B a and B or whoever the landowners doesn’t have well I think
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I think we got away from a big carrot on the stick give me an incentive and that’s that’s that’s why you’re talking about coming up with doing sending you have little rules right to give them incentives right exactly so yeah that’s our challenge and which is why it’s important for us an elected official to engage with folks out there who you mentioned earlier have a lot of great ideas and you know the way I see it it’s a reciprocal process from the public and elected officials we learn from each
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other and we benefit if we all work together without you know demonizing each other you know right lay down the sue lay down the sword you got it it was talking about that meeting that we were out there that publicly the attacks that were happening between the mayor I mean I really was I was really taken aback a little bit it was almost like his time to express and push at the council and in a very awkward way I almost thought it was for show because that meeting came away with a feeling of nothing
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really got accomplished they would have there was talk at the end that everyone’s gonna go back and evaluate what they saw and heard here but where it is its surface again to take the action exactly yeah I mean I think I believe it was initiated between the administration and council Murakawa to have the meeting at the site which I you know I come into mall for doing which is good to get everybody out to the site and and discuss so now the ball is now in the administration’s court okay we’ve
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had the talk now okay now we need to see some real action so I’m keeping my fingers crossed and I’m hoping that the administration will continue to move forward and if it were there be myself or others being that border collie nipping at the heels of the the herd to keep it going well we’ll do what we got to do so if someone has ideas that they go to the mayor and look for their special assistant or rather than the council because now it’s well the mayor they can do both well whichever is comfortable I
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think the more proper I don’t want to may be proper is not the right word but the the better way first is go to the contact the mayor’s office with your ideas and then if the mayor buys into it or the administration buys into it and they need funding and that’s where they can present it to the council for funding approval but by all means I would tell anyone out there come to the council too if you like I mean don’t limit yourself to just going to the mayor’s office and and it’s interesting
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because when I worked in the mayor’s office a lot of people would call the mayor’s office which they should but some actually told me I might have just supposed to call my councilmember no no you can call you can call both you know so I think it’s a incumbent upon ourselves to educate the public about how to do and what to do with regard to your concern so don’t be afraid to call your council as well as the mayor’s office and if you and sometimes so I would get calls in the mayor’s office
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because they call a council members office and they never got a return call so they call the mayor’s office and vice versa it’s happened the other way too when I was on the council I would get calls from a constituent saying I call the mayor’s office they never returned my calls oh can you help me so we help each other right and you were always available you’re very you be really very open and how you’re doing I prefer Thank You Jason well it’s good a great working with citizens like you you know you have
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programs like this how helping to get the word out and educate the public that’s a real important component of democracy tools but you as the Constituent do in helping educate everyone with the whole process of government and I try to instill that in my kids at UH at the intermediate level can be a challenge but it’s it’s fun and kids kids got great ideas too well maybe you should start working in the high school those are gonna be voters that group oh you know laughing there are so many Elliot’s that are they
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have all their opinions oh yeah and you know as a teacher yourself teacher makes an impact on kids and food is oh and you know what we all hope to do is make a positive impact and you know I I try to tell my students that this is gonna be you’re gonna be future leaders some of you are gonna be you know where I sit or where some of our other folks sit like the mayor and it’s important for you to engage and but the biggest thing I try to impress upon the kids do it in a respectful way and Doyle with the
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name-calling just work together so we can achieve what we need to do you know hope I’m not stepping on too many feet toes we got like four minutes with my goodness time is fine this thing about one attorney group oh yes corporation counsel that serves the mayor and the council and yet when they have differences it’s like which direction does this counsel go well this is why we need a charter amendment for the public to decide I think it’s high time for the council to have their own attorneys like
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using the issue of the Lahaina injection wall as an example yeah the council decided to drop the matter going before the Supreme Court was the mayor disagree any Senate Ford so there’s this conflict and corporation counsel who was Corporation Counsel serving in this case are they serving the mayor’s interests or the council’s interest they’re supposed to represent both of our interests so they’re sort of stuck in a you know compromise position so which is why I think the only way to really
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resolve this is we need to have our own attorney and and there’s the the interpretation of law now according to a corporation council they said if the mayor and council is not an agreement I guess the the merit resumes Authority so it’s a tough now what happens if there’s a city manager that’s gonna be a whole other it’s gonna add layers of oh my good oh I think about that chaser at all yeah yeah it’s just we got about two I’d say two minutes left what look at your own crystal ball any issues that use
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specific we would like to or things you want to say to the public well I think the most important thing is just get out there to vote at the neck in the next election we it’s really disturbing to see every election year our voter turnouts are down I think if you want to make some change or make a difference get out there and vote I know some people say it doesn’t make a difference well some of the races on Wow for example we’re decided by a couple of votes so you know folks can make a difference but work
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respectfully with each other and you know I encourage you to talk to your government officials and if you’re not getting a response let us know if you your era council member does not get back to you call another council member and call my office whatever is on your mind and some some of the legislation I talked about with you earlier that we initiate it was actually driven by the public first they kind of planted a seed in me and then I took the ball and ran with it when I was a teacher the old
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recycling center up by Kalama intermediate that was a a student that brought that whole idea up and and another teacher and so took it and ran with it and we got a recycling center it’s all driven by the kids and parents and us and then the mayor and the governor got involved with it so it was just a great example of everybody putting their heads together it’s amazing to say we have 30 seconds left i’m here with mike molina president sitting councilman of doing a great job for us here in Maui I think you Jason
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thank you for being here with us thank you guys in out there for being here with us on the neutral zone make sure to go up there and check out this show again and all the other shows at Maui neutral zone calm have a wonderful week we’ll see you next week thank you everyone thank you so much thank you [Music] the neutral zone with me Jason Schwartz would like to thank Maui Arts and Music Association DreamMakers Foundation of Maui for their support since 1991 hundreds of television shows and their
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Maui arts and music .com website they have champion self sustainability on Maui the neutral zone has earned live Mondays at 11 a.m. and replayed Saturday at 7 a.m. on kaku 88.5 FM the voice is now
