DAVID LITMAN 3-24-2021— Restorative Justice, NVC, counselor & program director at Hale Pono Youth Shelter, NVCnextgen.org, non violent communication Learning center, Maluhia Mediation, parts of Teran James Young Foundation. With organization mission statement oriented towards MORE peace in the world, David is a key to its successful implementation on Maui.
Summary & Transcript
- [00:00 → 03:56]
Introduction and Context
Jason Schwartz, host of The Neutral Zone on KAKU 88.5 FM Maui and via YouTube, introduces the show centered around meaningful conversations and community connections. The episode features David Littman, a longtime acquaintance known for his sharp insight and deep involvement in community work. Jason shares personal anecdotes about David’s family, highlighting his strong character and close-knit family ties, setting a warm and respectful tone for the discussion. David is introduced as a perceptive, multi-dimensional individual actively engaged in serving youth and the Maui community. - [03:56 → 07:46]
Teran James Young Foundation (TJYF) and David Littman’s Role
David explains his current work with the Taran James Young Foundation (TJYF), a nonprofit launched officially on January 1, 2021. The foundation honors the memory of Taran, a child who passed away at birth, through service to youth on Maui. Key points: - TJYF is privately funded primarily by Taran’s parents, Sulaira James and Genesis Young.
- The foundation’s mission is youth empowerment and peace-building, inspired by Genesis’s personal mission to see peace on earth.
- David is involved in multiple programs under the foundation:
- Non-Violent Communication for the Next Generation (NVC NextGen): Teaching peaceful communication and relationship skills in schools.
- Hale Pono Youth Shelter: A short-term sanctuary for teens in crisis or transitional states, filling a critical gap on Maui where no such shelter has existed for years.
- David’s role includes helping run the shelter and managing other youth programs. He shares that this work aligns with his long-term goals and counseling background, as he pursues licensure as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT).
- [07:46 → 12:31]
David’s Broader Engagement and Program Details
David elaborates on his multiple roles: - He maintains a private therapy practice, mainly with youth, while also working part-time with Maui Youth and Family Services on skill-building programs for adolescents.
- He emphasizes the importance of trauma-informed care, assuming many youths have experienced trauma and thus require empathetic, structured support.
- TJYF’s programs are designed to serve all youth voluntarily, not just those in trouble or involved with the justice system.
- The Hale Pono Youth Shelter aims to provide a safe, voluntary, short-term residence for teens aged 12-17, staffed 24/7 by trained adults and equipped for family reunification and referral to other community programs.
- Although the shelter building has been purchased, renovations are delayed due to county permit processes, with hopes to open by fall 2021.
- Meanwhile, TJYF has launched a virtual teen collective program—a group mentoring and social support initiative conducted online, featuring games, mindful moments, check-ins, and open-topic discussions led by teens.
- [12:31 → 19:21]
Virtual Teen Collective and Outreach Efforts - The virtual teen collective is designed to create a welcoming, safe space for youth to connect with vetted adult mentors and peers.
- Activities include:
- Mindful moments and group check-ins.
- Interactive games and breakout rooms.
- Discussions on topics chosen by the youth, ranging from serious issues like climate change and racism to casual interests like video games.
- Special guests for virtual events include local figures such as Paige Aham’s (big-wave surfer) and Sunny Kalama (local performer), who participate in Q&A sessions.
- The group uses circle technology, a structured method ensuring everyone has an opportunity to speak without interruption, fostering equity and connection.
- David stresses that the collective is supportive but not a form of formal therapy or group therapy. The focus is on peer support, relationship-building, and fun.
- [19:21 → 24:55]
Hale Pono Youth Shelter and Other TJYF Programs
David outlines TJYF’s four main projects:
| Program Name | Description | Target Group/Notes |
|---|---|---|
| Hale Pono Youth Shelter | Short-term shelter for teens (12-17) with 13 beds, staffed 24/7, focused on safety and family reunification | Teens in crisis, runaways, voluntary participation |
| NVC NextGen | Nonviolent Communication training in schools promoting trauma-informed and restorative practices | School communities, youth and staff |
| Maluhia Mediation | Conflict resolution service using nonviolent communication for any interpersonal conflicts | Open to all community members on donation basis |
| Restorative Justice Maui | Facilitates restorative justice processes connecting offenders and victims to repair harm | Criminal justice system and community members |
- The Hale Pono Youth Shelter is designed as a respite space for any teen in need, not just those involved with law enforcement or child welfare. It aims to provide a warm, voluntary, trauma-informed environment where youth can receive support and families can be assisted towards reunification.
- David highlights the lack of available short-term sanctuaries for teens on Maui and how this fills a critical community need.
- The mediation service (Maluhia) uses nonviolent communication to resolve conflicts by focusing on underlying universal needs rather than surface issues. David shares a personal testimony about how this approach helped save his marriage.
- The restorative justice program seeks to transform the punitive justice model by allowing offenders and victims to engage in healing dialogues, emphasizing accountability and repair over punishment.
- [24:55 → 33:10]
Philosophy of Nonviolent Communication and Mediation Process - David explains the core of nonviolent communication (NVC), developed by Marshall Rosenberg, as focusing on universal human needs such as love, connection, safety, meaning, and respect.
- The goal is to shift from punitive reactions to collaborative problem-solving, recognizing that conflicts arise from unmet needs and that needs themselves are never in conflict.
- He describes the mediation process as structured and respectful, including agreements such as no interruptions and reflective listening to foster understanding and empathy between parties.
- David emphasizes forgiveness as a personal healing tool, distinguishing it from condoning harmful behavior—allowing individuals to release resentment and move forward.
- He shares how restorative justice offers a deeper level of healing by creating space for victims and offenders to meet safely and constructively, supported by trained facilitators over an extended period.
- [33:10 → 38:04]
Building Connection and Empathy Through Communication - David highlights the power of empathy—not necessarily agreeing with others but sincerely seeking to understand their perspective and underlying needs.
- He illustrates how mediation helps parties articulate and reflect each other’s needs, bridging divides and fostering collaboration.
- The approach aims to transform adversarial relationships into cooperative problem solving, fostering peace and connection.
- This aligns with the ethos of The Neutral Zone—a space for non-combative, constructive dialogue where “miracles can happen.”
- David stresses that this work is about creating compassionate, trauma-informed environments where all voices are heard and valued.
- [38:04 → 45:10]
Approach to Mentoring and Therapy: Flexibility Within Structure - David discusses his mentoring philosophy summarized by two acronyms:
- LLAMA: Listen, Accept, Model, Appreciate – foundational behaviors for effective mentoring and connection.
- FARP: Fix, Advise, Rescue, Project – behaviors to avoid as they often alienate or disempower youth.
- He advocates for listening more than speaking, offering unconditional positive regard, and modeling healthy behavior rather than trying to fix or control.
- David compares therapeutic approaches to music genres:
- Classical music (rigid, structured) versus jazz (flexible, improvisational).
- He prefers a “jazz-like” approach in therapy and mentoring—having structure but adapting dynamically to individual needs.
- This approach acknowledges human complexity and the need for responsiveness rather than one-size-fits-all methods.
- [45:10 → 47:24]
Personal Reflections and Final Message - David reflects on his personal growth journey, including martial arts training, and how learning to “move with energy” instead of resisting it informs his relational style.
- He shares insights from neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) and Stephen Covey’s principle to “seek first to understand, then to be understood” as keys to building rapport and effective communication.
- David’s closing advice to the audience is:
“Seek first to understand and seek to be understood. Go for empathy first.” - He highlights empathy as a sincere desire to understand others’ perspectives and needs, which he believes can lead to a more peaceful world.
- [47:24 → 48:30]
Closing and Invitation
Jason thanks David for sharing his wisdom and contributions, noting that David embodies the values discussed in the show. David is described as a role model and a resource for Maui’s youth and community. The episode closes with an invitation for listeners to explore TJYF’s programs and reach out for support or involvement.
Key Insights and Takeaways
- Teran James Young Foundation (TJYF) provides critical, trauma-informed youth services on Maui, including a soon-to-open short-term shelter for teens and programs promoting nonviolent communication and restorative justice.
- The foundation’s work is funded privately, enabling a focus on service delivery rather than funding struggles.
- The Hale Pono Youth Shelter fills a longstanding community gap, offering voluntary, safe, short-term residence for youth in crisis, with a goal of family reunification and community referrals.
- Nonviolent Communication (NVC) and restorative justice are central approaches, focusing on universal human needs, empathy, connection, and healing rather than punishment.
- Programs such as the virtual teen collective provide innovative, flexible, and youth-led spaces for connection and support, especially important during COVID-19 restrictions.
- David’s mentoring philosophy emphasizes listening, acceptance, modeling, and appreciation (LLAMA) rather than fixing or advising (FARP), offering freedom within structure.
- The mediation and restorative justice processes are highly structured, trauma-informed, and collaborative, helping individuals transform conflict and repair harm.
- The work aims to build peace, empathy, and understanding across generations, with a hopeful vision for societal transformation beginning with youth.
Terminology and Definitions
| Term | Definition |
|---|---|
| Nonviolent Communication (NVC) | A communication method developed by Marshall Rosenberg focusing on expressing and meeting universal human needs. |
| Trauma-Informed Care | An approach that assumes individuals may have experienced trauma and emphasizes safety, empathy, and compassion. |
| Restorative Justice | A justice process emphasizing accountability and repairing harm through facilitated dialogue between victims and offenders. |
| LLAMA | Acronym for Listen, Accept, Model, Appreciate – mentoring behaviors encouraging connection and respect. |
| FARP | Acronym for Fix, Advise, Rescue, Project – mentoring behaviors to avoid which can disempower or alienate youth. |
| Circle Technology | A structured group process where participants speak in turn, ensuring equity and respect in conversations. |
Timeline of Key Events and Programs
| Date/Period | Event/Program Description |
|---|---|
| January 1, 2021 | Official launch of Taran James Young Foundation (TJYF). |
| December 2019 | Submission of renovation plans for Hale Pono Youth Shelter to Maui County. |
| Early 2021 | Launch of virtual teen collective mentoring program due to COVID-19. |
| Anticipated Fall 2021 | Expected opening of Hale Pono Youth Shelter after permits and renovations. |
| March 27, 2021 | Planned virtual party event to introduce teens to the collective program. |
00:00
[Music] aloha welcome to the neutral zone mauineutralzone.com i’m jason schwartz your host we are on kaku 88.5 fm the voice of maui we’re also seen on akaku maui community media and we also live on youtube all the shows live on youtube you can go to mauineutralzone.com and watch all our shows and get dizzy because there’s so many of them um we are now in 2021 we are in month number three i can count three and um i think we’re up to show like 120 121 and many of you have heard that uh
01:01
over the last while i started getting guests and i then i realized oh these people are in my my mankind project group and i thought well i maybe should start a thing called mankind project guys or whatever but i have found that mankind is a men’s group if you will women get together all the time men not so often so something that is um us looking at the future and looking at ourselves and how the future goes that’s what that was and in that group i found some great people and there’s one
01:40
guy that i knew before i’ve known for a number of years and i’ve seen i want to say i’ve seen him grown up but he’s a grown guy he’s he’s big like me and you although i hope children are watching i think this is an adult show because they i was told you can’t have more than 15 or 20 seconds and the kids are changing channels so for all the you that keep your attention i am with a gentleman that some of you know for years david lippman now i could talk about him but he’s
02:14
right here so let’s talk to him hi david good morning good morning how you doing i’m good how are you good got my coffee ready to go oh yeah perfect now as i’m looking at your screen you know everyone knows now in this covered time everyone’s on zoom i see t unless i have my glasses t-j-y-f that sounds too good it’s friday no no no right no nothing to do with nothing to do with friday unfortunately so i know that you’re going to tell us about that but i want our audience to know david littman
02:50
is really a wonderful guy i met him and i thought and this guy’s really sharp i don’t know what he does for a living he was doing all kinds of things but i thought this guy is really perceptive and i like the way he puts pieces together just an observation and over the years then i met this beautiful woman and i said oh she’s a littman too it’s not his sister that’s his wife wow good choice his wife christina and then i met his daughter and his son i said wow this guy is amazing what a beautiful
03:23
man with a great family and um well then you met my mother-in-law then i met your mother-in-law she’s a force she was a force of nature yeah he was a force of nature too so it was just uh you know a great thing but you always stood out as somebody i thought you know there’s a great family he’s a great guy but this guy has a lot of sharp and now you’re working with tjyf yeah yeah i’m laughing when i say that but why don’t you tell us david um what you’re doing now because
03:56
i think you keep adding levels of greatness in your resume and then you will hope to talk about you but what are you doing on tuesdays well thanks no i appreciate that yeah it’s funny i hadn’t really thought about the fact that it’s kind of like the thank god it’s friday vibe you know with tjyf um it certainly uh is a lot more um meaningful than that right it’s so terran james young foundation uh it’s a privately funded nonprofit uh that we technically we just were officially
04:26
launched on january 1st this year it took takes a long time to get a non-profit established just as we found out uh it’s it’s primarily uh funded by a woman named sulaira james and her husband genesis young and they had a child named taran who unfortunately uh passed away at birth and still though his presence is such a big force and influence you know the spirit of him is such a big force and influence in their lives and solaris is still in contact with that energy and so they wanted to honor him by
05:01
naming the non-profit after him so we honor we honor his his memory and his continued presence in a different form if you will and it’s all about serving youth that’s really their primary purpose you know genesis has a mission statement you know mankind project we all have missions right his mission is to see peace on earth before he dies you know and it’s a big mission and so we have a number of projects that we do a number of programs under the foundation one of them is non-violent communication
05:30
for the next generation so trying to teach the next generation how to be peaceful and how to have better relationships we do that in the schools i’ve been involved with that program uh but as in in the course of doing that they realized that um there was a meeting where all the different agencies a bunch of different agencies local agencies and non-profits got together and uh in the course of conversing they realize you know there’s no short-term sanctuary for teens on the island you know so let’s say
05:59
teen runs away from home police pick them up there’s nowhere to bring them on maui they used to be uh years ago but it for various reasons apparently it was closed down and every never reopened and uh and that was many years ago and so celerian genesis said well what if we build one you know so and they had the resources stepped up and and decided to buy a building and and hire people and and let’s create a short-term sanctuary for for teens you know so it’s a program that they and then they genesis and i know each other
06:31
mankind project and he basically asked me to help out and help run the shelter so that’s our other program and the idea is that the teams are only there for a short period of time but because they’re going to come get to know us we’ll build a relationship have trust with them ideally that we can be a hub for other services and other programs so we can be a source for referral to all the wonderful programs that maui offers youth but if those programs if those needs aren’t being met we could also
06:57
step up and create those programs to help meet those needs and it was a great opportunity for me as you know i’ve you know i’ve lived on maui for almost 11 years now and done a variety of things as many people do on the island to be able to live here uh and this is the first time in my life i really felt like my my job is you know fully in line i’ve done some part-time work with other nonprofits but this is now full-time and in line with my mission and my vision so it’s so wonderful to be
07:20
able to come to work every day and feel like i’m doing something that contributes and it’s really of value to me and to the community and allows me to go also allows me to get my licensure finally i got my degree in counseling psychology about gosh 20 years ago and i’ve worked in you know the fields but never really gotten the formal lmft you know licensed marriage and family therapist license so i’m in the process of doing that now as well and seeing clients on the side yeah so it’s been a
07:46
wonderful journey so far well and you know you it’s interesting that i didn’t realize so that was your degree because you have the you have that form down you know it’s like you listen like you’re gathering information you deliver it in really good way well so you are you you do therapy for people as well i do yeah private practice yeah oh independent of the yeah on the side independently so it keeps me really busy unfortunately because i have a full-time job and then i’m trying to do clients and get my
08:19
hours towards licensure i also do some contract work for maui youth and family services i work with teens they have a program that they do funded by the child and adolescent mental health division called intensive independent living skills so work with the youth to help them develop skills to adult essentially so that’s kind of fun too i do that part time too so yeah i’m wearing a few hats right now and uh very very busy and it’s in the sort of i want to say in the in the vein of a mankind project because
08:49
we all as we grow through our lives and hopefully gain wisdom and insights and we’re there to be able to be the foundation for those that come after us and be that level of support so you’re doing it with with the younger generation that are getting toward full adulthood so yeah yeah exactly yeah adolescence that that awkward rough period of anybody’s life really you know that sometimes one of the hardest times in some ways in the most transformative though and we’re the greatest opportunities too in some ways
09:23
too you’re right yeah we always say in the meetings at the start of our meetings that we you know we stand on the shoulders right of those who came before us and then they’re standing on our shoulders and we you know we have that kind of continuity into the future hopefully and i’m sure in your work also so do you find do you do group things as well as individual and how do you yeah i mean i think about all that stuff i know i’ve seen people that are in different situations here on maui and
09:52
when it comes to support services you know i don’t want to knock anyone but neither they fall short because they don’t have the skills or they don’t have the space and they don’t have the money to hire the people it’s a monster here so yeah i know what you’re doing is super important well and we’re so blessed that souler has stepped up to really you know fund it so that money is not an issue we don’t we can focus on the delivery of services you know we don’t have to
10:19
constantly be scrambling to find out where we’re going to get funded next you know well that’s really really good i mean i’m sure that uh both the teens and the parents and support of those teens like to know that they’re working with a group that isn’t driven by money many of these other things they’d say okay we’ve put half a million dollars into this program and when you look at the budget you see that 385 thousand is salaries yeah fifty thousand is equipment and shares
10:50
and uh ten thousand is the actual services wait that was a half a million dollars how do we get down to ten thousand yeah it does cost a lot to operate these things that is not you guys that is really good yeah are you really grateful yet or when is that no no unfortunately we purchased the building uh for the shelter and we need to do renovations on it and of course uh unfortunately we submitted our plans to the county of maui for renovations in december 2019 and we have still not received approval
11:19
yet um and not to and again i don’t want to knock anybody or anything i understand the process and the needs but so uh although you know we had a really good meeting with with the mayor actually this week and it sounds like you know we may be able to get some more motion on that soon and then we have about once we get the permit approval we’ll probably about another four or five months of actual construction and renovation work to make the shelter suitable for the youth and then you know so i’m
11:40
kind of hoping we’ll be open you know by fall at the latest in the meantime there’s a lot of work to get ready you know we have to design our policies procedures you know work on our training programs for the staff but in the meantime also we don’t want to wait so we’ve been starting some other programs you talk about group programs we started a teen collective virtual program it’s a kind of a group mentoring program if you will with where the teens ideally will lead it and so of course the challenge of
12:06
that because we have initially the idea was well the teams would come in we get to know them then we can continue to do stuff with them now we have to try to get the teens to get to know us and somehow you know feel comfortable enough to actually hang out with us and do stuff you know these are all when i say us i mean we’ve got a very diverse group of different ages cultural backgrounds we try to make a really nice group of adults who are well trained background checked vetted you know safe people that can support the teens
12:31
and getting together and then doing what they think is important and getting support supporting each other but also getting support from the adults and the ideas you know we gather we we do a mindful moment we check in we you know we do a circle check-in we do some games you know have some fun and then maybe take it a little deeper if they’re willing you know what’s a topic that we should maybe talk about today or maybe someone’s having a hard day how can we give them support you know
12:52
and take that forward and do that week to week so we could be a constant consistent resource for the teens so to get that kicked off uh and again we mentioned i think by the time this airs it will have already happened but on uh march 27th we’re doing like a virtual party just to kind of you know get the teens in so they can get to know us and see us and have some fun with us and then hopefully from there they’ll be interested in taking it further and actually meeting and getting support
13:14
in the form of the teen collective and your events are uh i’ve seen you know the flyer for the event i am sure that um you have all kinds of people what kind of do you have quote staff or is it just you’re going to have a party basically uh yeah well we have you know we have um with mentors who are volunteering already right so they’re already online yeah this is all virtual because of kovid right so it’s all a big zoom party basically uh so we’re going to do games on zoom we’re going to do giveaways of amazon
13:44
gift cards and we got special speak we got paige aham’s is coming and she’s a surfer a big wave surfer and then we’ve got sunny kalama who’s a local performer and she’s going to perform and do some q a they’re both going to do q a and then all kinds of you know different breakout rooms for games and then we’re going to do something called an open space with the youth if they’re interested where the idea is again they pick the topics they’re interested in right and then we create rooms for each
14:09
topic and then they self-select themselves into those rooms to talk and do stuff with it you know so it could be something like it could be as serious as climate change or racism or it could be you know a video game that everybody likes or something you know but they could do something in that room together talk about it maybe come up with an action plan you know then come back to the main group and talk about what they talked about so it’s a way for them to kind of explore in their own in a facilitated
14:31
way what uh kind of uh so this i don’t want to call it therapy this is more like just fun just creating an environment first for people and kind of i don’t want to say structured talk but maybe that’s what it is it’s like yeah somewhat we we use we use circle technology we call it you know people have been gathering in circles for thousands of years just like mankind project we gather in a circle right of course on zoom it’s a virtual circle you just pick an order you know but the
15:02
idea is that you have equity that way everybody everybody gets a chance to speak people don’t interrupt each other you know so we all get heard we can all share you know and then pass the talking piece to the next person they get to share that’s generally the format we use for when it comes to like more you know meaningful or serious so just how we check in and it’s how we deal with like talking about something serious you know but then you know we have games where it’s just all all heck breaks
15:25
loose and we just kind of have fun too uh because you know you don’t want to be serious all the time and it’s not really therap it’s therapeutic but it’s not therapy right so ideally it’s providing support but it’s not like group therapy or anything like that it’s not that you know it’s not designed for that well it’s interesting when i listen to you i hear um you’re even in the way you’re uh you’re expressing it now you’re very organized you’re you’re there you’re uh
15:52
i don’t want to say it’s compartmentalized i can really feel a sense of overall organization uh that is structured but you give people beautiful room to to be in a i guess to express themselves do you find that that um you’re uh i don’t they’re not really clients your guests kind of open up and uh exp are getting um they’re liking it you know i mean well again we’re just at the at the early stages you know we’ve only got had a few teens come so far but they do seem to like it and they do
16:31
they have sort of opened up a little bit and and uh it takes time you know to establish trust and rapport so we’re at the early stages of that for with this program i mean on the other programs though um yeah i think it’s important to have like consistency you know structure especially for anybody who’s undergone any kind of trauma you know we try to be what’s called trauma informed right so we kind of assume and it’s nice because you know you can kind of assume everybody has some kind of trauma in
16:55
their life and even if they don’t by being trauma informed what what that means is that you’re just being kind of you know making sure there’s kind of a safety and structure that we’re gentle that we’re accepting that we’re empathic that we’re compassionate that can’t hurt any anyway right so even if someone even if someone hasn’t had trauma that still feels good so we just sort of assume that there may be trauma in the room and then and then approach it that way with
17:18
an open an open-hearted structure but a very open-hearted flexible kind of a space and people do generally i’ve seen teams respond to that really really well yeah well as i’m sitting here the thing that i’m aware of is because you’re doing this and that and this i’m i’m trying to get a cl clarity so oh sorry yeah no i’m well it’s okay i’m just thinking as a young person or anybody listen to the shows like whoa so what do these guys do see they if so yeah into trouble
17:49
and uh they’re in the kind of court system how do they’re gonna be uh able to have a place like a breathing space after their incidents oh thanks for asking it that way because i want to clarify it’s not just for people who are in trouble or in the court system like in fact we’re not and we’re not a holding facility right we’re a voluntary place to be youth don’t have to be here ever i mean we have an open door you know they can now of course if they leave because they have guardians we’d
18:13
have to let the guardians know right obviously we you know we can’t just they can’t just wander out wander the streets um but we’re not holding them there we’re not restraining them or restricted you know i mean it’s completely voluntary that’s why we want to create such a warm welcoming space we want them to want to be there and it’s not just it could be for any teen like i know you know you’ve met my son and you know that when he was a teen he had we have some serious challenges with him
18:33
he’s a strong personality which serves him well in the world but when you’re raising someone like that it led to a lot of this you know when we were growing up especially between him my wife he’s also a very strong woman and uh yeah so there were times where it would have been great if he could have like gone somewhere you know for when he was 16 17 you know gone somewhere for a few days got some support you know we we could have gotten support as a family to reunify the family then in a
18:56
healthier way right so it’s like a respite kind of a space too for any teen really who might want it or any family who might find that valuable and uh it’s it’s so it could be for i imagine we’re going to get people from getting referrals from all walks of life all different sources you know i think initially you know the the impetus was from the police saying you know we pick up these runaways and it’d be nice if they had a short-term place to stay while we work out what’s best for them and the
19:21
families but um and we might get referrals from child welfare services you know might be sending people our way you know uh but i think really any any um buddy and that’s why i wanted to be a short-term facility the idea is to resolve whatever the issues are you know for the for the youth and their families and ideally we go for family reunification you know bringing the families back together using with offerings that we can direct them to in terms of referrals or with programs that we could offer you
19:47
know like using our nonviolent communication skills or mediation skills know that we offer um but yeah again it’s more broad-based but that’s why short term is that we can serve a wide range of youth you know not just um we’ll have 13 beds but we don’t want to just serve 13 youth for 12 years you know that kind of thing or whatever that would be like eight years i guess from 12 to 18. um so we want to rotate people through and really you know have an impact a broader impact on the community that way
20:15
and then but so that program is called that’s called jalepono youth shelter yeah let’s see what i mean about i know that with my organization they don’t know one of my mama papa dream oh thank you so let me start let me start at the top i appreciate it as the non-profit determinant so projects exactly so we’ve got different projects right so we’ve got the halle pono teen shelter that’s that project i just described 30 30 30 days or less uh youth shelter for teens 12 to 17 boys or girls
20:47
um and that program is the that’s the shelter that’s the one i’m actually primarily running and i’ll be hiring a lot of staff you know so we’re staffed with at least three adults well trained there 24 7 very safe environment then we have our nvc next next-gen which stands for very big mouthful non-violent communication for the next generation and uh you could look up you could google non-violent communication it’s actually not about non-violence or communication so much it’s really more
21:14
about how to create better relationships i think is how i look at it it’s the work of marshall rosenberg uh bringing that into the school system and really that beyond that though it’s um it’s about creating what we call restorative schools so schools that are trauma informed like we talked about before schools that are using like restorative principles it’s restorative versus punitive you know so trauma informed those are interesting words yeah it’s a buzz word now in the community yeah which means
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means being aware that there might be trauma so the theory is that instead of looking at things like when kids have behavioral issues in school the tendency is to think well it’s a motivation issue right but if you look at researchers like dr ross green you know he says no kids do well if they can and they’re able to it’s more of an ability issue oftentimes they just don’t have the skills or they’ve been or they’ve had traumatic experiences you know we want to ask what’s going on with
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the youth that’s preventing them from being able to do well as opposed to try to punish them which would be kind of productive because if they you could punish them all you like but if they can’t do it you know if they don’t have the emotional capacity or skills or resources to to to thrive you know then you’re just it’s really cruel it’s really kind of cruel to punish him right because you’re punishing based on something when it’s not about motivation it’s about ability so
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yeah we want to try to bring more of that away that’s what trauma informed awareness is partly about so of someone bringing a youth to this program or allowing you to this program so you your education pieces initially to the big people yes exactly we’re not teaching the kids we’re actually when we go into the schools we sometimes we will as a way to kind of gain an entry into the school we’ll run some classes for the kids and the teachers get to see it but our main goal is to get the whole
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school engaged in changing its culture its practices to be more compassionate to be more connected to have resource you know to be able to serve everybody better that’s really the goal so holly pono youth shelter and then nvc nextgen restorative schools which is out in the environment in the schools going into the schools exactly right and then we have maluhia so there’s four entities there’s halepono nbc next gen which is the restorative schools how they pronounce the use shelter then we
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because what we notice is when you can bring people back into connection they can collaborate and they can solve problems like that it’s it’s magical it really is we we never even focus in our mediation we don’t really focus so much on the content of the issue you know we get them underneath it to the underlying universal human needs that they’re trying to meet and when they meet at that level they can connect and when we connect problems resolve it’s it’s i use you know you know i think i mentioned
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that saved my marriage five years ago when we were having a really hard patch and we went to see an nbc mediator and named joey manske who’s here on the island and she you know we walked in to mediate a sort of a temporary separation to try that out walked in there to mediate that walked out back together again you know and moved on and have been wonderfully together ever since and it’s a great process so so we have the mediation services and that’s offered on a donation basis you know so
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anybody can take advantage of it um and then we um also have and then final program we run is something called restorative justice maui and um restorative justice is our efforts to um bring this principle of restorative justice to the island in the system where again it’s it’s anyway let’s grab that in a nutshell it’s it’s uh the idea of of uh if you ever watch like van jones has a show called the redemption project where you know you bring victims and offenders together um of course in a safe very structured way
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but uh you it is predicated on the idea that if people are willing to sort of take accountability for what they’ve done rather than just punishing let’s work towards actually helping them repair the harm that was done let’s take it one step further yeah i had my car broken into yeah not only did that guy get jail they gave him an option one of them i guess was just like you’re talking restorative justice service often i’m getting a check he’s it’s surely not uh but it’s in that direction of trying to get
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someone to take a more full responsibility for their actions and understand it besides the restorative justice incidents that i see our whole world needs that brain it really and a lot of a lot of countries have employed it i think it’s the primary way of just mode of justice in new zealand for example um and in other countries you see a lot more of it and there’s actually there’s already been a push towards it um on the big island the prosecutor’s office runs a restorative justice unit
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uh there and and offers you know the opportunity because if you think about it if if the way our system works right now if you when you when you had your car broken into that was criminal charge right you were then pushed out of the system in a way right the state takes over and prosecutes and punishes on your behalf so where does that leave you you know not with a lot of closure you know and wouldn’t it have been wonderful what if you could have sat down with the guy who did that right and he got the opportunity to sort
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of explain what was going on to to and to try to make amends right and to and to the very least take accountability in front of you you know to so you guys can connect to the human level again and and have a healing opportunity yeah it is a major step of confrontation for me as quote the stuckey know it’s big for everybody it is a major step forward in growth it is for me to sit in the room with someone that broke into my car and and lacerated my life i’m gonna grow quite a bit there myself yeah and i should i
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should mention we wouldn’t just throw you two together right obviously if this process is a very speaking of structure it’s a very structured product it can take sometimes you know six months to a year for a really intense uh where you meet privately with people you know you really get underneath you you you help a lot so that when you get together it’s done in a very sort of structured way so it’s safe you know and uh you have a chance to process through the feelings beforehand
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and really get to the place of yeah my favorite definition of forgiveness that someone taught me a guy named john james who created a grief recovery program in la years ago and uh he said your forgiveness is it’s saying i acknowledge that what you did hurt me and i’m not going to let it hurt me anymore like in other words me holding on to anger and resentment another funny expression i heard is that resentment anger holding on to things it’s like drinking poison hoping the other guy is going to die
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you know so it’s really more for my benefit to not to not forget or condone right but forgiving doesn’t mean that forgiving means kind of moving on coming back into sort of recognition that we are none of us are perfect you know that we also are doing the best we can with what we have in a given moment and that you know just because someone does something regrettable in one moment doesn’t define their whole life ideally who they are you know it’s healing the kind of uh thing you’re bringing to just by by
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hearing your sharing you bring a level of compassion that i would like to see out there oh trust me i have my moments i know but i think about um recently genesis uh was letting us know that he’s been working with uh others but tina wildberger and our state house here in hawaii to bring restorative justice really uh much more prominently which to the fullest and in fact just to i think it was just two days ago yesterday now um the the the house and the senate both passed a resolution um that stated that we were going to
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bring restorative this restorative justice concept into the school system right so that rather than just punishing kids you know we try to do more in terms of repairing and like we say it the kids is one thing it’s the big people you know i mean i think our whole society that needs you know more than a dose of this you know we need to jump in the pool and not get out you know it’s like we have to which is why we’re focusing on the next generation right because ideally if they if they if they grow up with that
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experience of having that you know they’re going to want it more and then that’ll permeate hopefully into our society because they’re the future leaders of the world you know and a great example of just like we talk about in mankind project and yeah you that we are the shoulders that yeah the future will stand on so what are we what are we serving up here and so what you’re serving up is building blocks for life and and a really the words restorative justice i mean hopefully that brings air into your life
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you know the whole idea of it is yeah it’s it’s this idea is it really you know some i i don’t know who was telling me this bit that when they said it not nonviolent communication it’s really about like just love you know but in their in the sense of love in the sense of um my definition of love is wanting the best for you know so loving myself means wanting the best for myself but loving others means wanting the best for the other person and and ideally we want that equally not
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more or less you know if i if i love others more than myself i’m i’m codependent and i’m hurting myself right that’s not because i’m healthy but if i love myself more than others that i’m selfish and that’s not necessarily healthy either it’s that balance right that harmony of of caring about and that’s why i like nbc because it focuses on our universal human needs love connection meaning purpose safety you know sustenance those things that make that enrich and sustain life
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um and and we all have the same needs they’re universal you know and they connect us and when we can meet at that level versus our the problem doesn’t come in the knees needs are never in conflict right in other words classic one with parents and children you know kids need what we call autonomy autonomy means i decide i have my choice my freedom you know i decide i want to choose what i do and and that there’s that need right and that’s a strong need to make life more wonderful for people everybody has that
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need to some degree parents though there’s this need for safety that they’re thinking about right so you know they want to make sure that their safety and protection for the youth and those two things seem at odds a lot of the time but it’s not it’s just the strategies that we’re employing to get those needs met right so when we can forget about we can loosen up our attachment to like what i want to do to get that need met do i want to go to the kid wants to go drink at the party you know for example
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or you know drive his car at 110 miles an hour down a back road uh you know whatever it is right that’s a strategy right and the parents want you know the parents sometimes if they had their way those kids would never leave the house you know they’d be there forever um but not that that strategy meets one knee but it doesn’t meet the other right so but when we can collaborate when we get together and recognize okay let’s talk about this you want choice and freedom i want your safety
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what’s gonna what can we kind of come up with that’s gonna meet both those needs right then we’re collaborating right we’re getting creative to find strategies that meet all the needs and that’s kind of world i want to live you have to establish uh the rapport between the two parties openly when they do that i mean well that’s how the mediation process works to be honest that when you come into an nvc meeting i just walk you through it when you come into an mvc mediation you only have to make
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two agreements one is that we’re not going to interrupt each other you know so you have some kind of order right which is tempting sometimes right an argument so we’re just going to have one person talk at a time and the other agreement we have to make is that i’m going to kind of listen to the one person catch a phrase that sort of summarizes what they’re saying and then i have the other person repeat that phrase are you willing to do that usually they say yes fine well what i’m doing really is i’m
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listening underneath what they’re saying to what is that need that they’re expressing oh so what you’re saying is you really just want some safety right you’re usually valuing safety right now is that right and they say yes they say great james can you please say that susan really values safety right now and what that does is it connects him to her at that level well you can’t argue that you know what i mean you could argue the strategies but the idea is we’re building connection we’re
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bringing them together we’re starting to get some connection collaboration going you know so that when we start getting all the needs identified marshall said that marshall rosenberg the guy who created this stuff said you know once you get people if they can express each other’s needs when they’re at that level resolution is about 20 minutes or less away you know because they’re going to start getting creative in how they meet those needs it’s like imagine we’re on opposite ends of the
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opposite sides of the table and we’re doing this right by sort of when i start getting into what are the needs it kind of moves me around to your side of the table and now we’re moving together in the same direction you know and to me it’s magical it really is but it works it’s great i’m sure you might imagine that’s why this show is called the neutral zone yeah right exactly it is oh it wasn’t it wasn’t mutual it wasn’t a romulan reference jason once we don’t go fighting each other and
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we’re in an environment where we kind of relate to each other miracles can happen you know exactly you caught the essence of it that’s beautiful you missed my star trek joke there didn’t you oh let me hear it are you a star trek fan at all i’m sure how could one not well in star trek there’s a place called the neutral zone it was between romulan and federation space so just made me think of that too i’m a total geek i should mention that up front well and i i saw uh the man in the high castle have you seen
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that i love that show that was great yeah that was a really i didn’t even think about that when i thought about the neutral zone i was just thinking of when i was doing politics like why are we always combative why don’t we just come and really share issues in in a new and collaborative way where there is no adversary and it’s a beautiful vision yeah and uh seems to be the world needs that you know it’s well especially with how social media reinforces what you already like right
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and so it just builds these bubbles of truth you know that that and reinforcing and re-entrenching us into separate camps so yeah so now more than ever it’s important to come together in a space of like and that’s again what needs do right because we all have the same needs so that’s what unifies us you know and so when we vote when we have what we call needs consciousness you know we come into that space of neutrality where we need consciousness and then we want to come back to our natural
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marshall rosenberg said our natural state of being is to be compassionately giving and receiving that’s what we want you know we’re tribal creatures in a way right we we are group creatures and we want to relate and give treat it feels good i mean you know i worry sometimes that like sometimes people worry like well what’s their agenda you know what are they really after what are they what are they doing with these kids you know it’s like it’s pretty simple you know we have a need
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to contribute and to have purpose and meaning and you know what i mean that’s a need of everybody really to some degree and this fulfills that you know we really do just want to be of service you know there’s a value to that and it’s kind of selfish right i like doing this because it feels good to help people you know it may sound silly but it really i think everybody’s had that experience when they help someone you know it’s a bigger or lesser degree it feels good and then you want more of it you know that’s
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really the motivation well and i i very much appreciate that um in you thanks it’s like you’re what i feel with you is tremendous freedom like and freedom inside a structure you know yeah yeah really i don’t know if that’s makes sense that’s the goal of parenting i think create freedom within structure yeah i have two kids right so i’ve raised two you exude that if i was a kid listening to this show i’d say how do i get to see this david lyndon yeah hopefully i do i mean it seems to
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work well you know it’s funny what we say in the mentoring world is um we want a llama and not farp right we say this in the men’s work too remember llama is an acronym and farp is an acronym so llama stands for listen just listen not you know listen more than i speak accept just unconditional positive regard for who they are as a person you know model certainly be a model of healthy behavior right speak from the i language though you know not you right and just be the change i want to see in the world
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right model and then appreciate and celebrate you know with them right that’s how i try to work with youth mostly and they respond to that versus what a lot of people do which is we call farp which kind of sounds horrible and it is it says f stands for fixing you know like well there’s something wrong with you i’m going to fix you you know i’m going to give you and then a stands for advice right giving advice you know which i think unsolicited advice is kind of abusive in a way so versus if it’s asked for that’s one
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thing right but unsolicited advice you know we don’t want to do that so fixing advising rescuing thinking we have to rescue you know or projecting my stuff so farp farp fix advise rescue project you know we want to stay away from that and just listen accept model and appreciate and i i didn’t make up that but i i try to embody it as much as i can and as a coach and therapist like it seems like that would be i don’t want to say a step above let’s say a very uh available and uh people coming into your
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environment aren’t being threatened they’re being given a freedom that’s exactly you said freedom within structure you know it’s like it’s important you know i tend to think of oh sorry i i tend to think of um like therapy i had a friend who was a corporate consultant and he wrote this doctorate about consulting as jazz and i think it could be applied to this work too because he said you know some like some approaches are very much like classical music you know it’s very
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structured right everything’s very rigid and structured and procedural and methodology and you adhere to that you know and it’s and that does provide some people a professional sense of safety and structure and you can sort of measure it be scientific but to be honest i think humans are too complex for a one-size-fits-all modality so jazz he said is a little different in jazz there’s a theme people are playing a song there’s a general core musical you know thing being played but
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everybody’s riffing off each other they’re responding to the needs of the moment they’re being flexible they’re bringing new things in you know way more dynamic and alive and that’s how i like to do work with people you know well it’s interesting you bring up uh you music as your example um you also are a multi-faceted being i mean when i say the word music i know david littman also plays guitar and sings and rice yeah music’s a big part of our life yeah and my daughter’s really taking that to
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the next level for me it’s always been a hobby i kind of toyed with that idea right in my young years you know should i go should i do the music thing you know should i go for it and i just i love music and i i just for me i knew it was always going to be a big part of my life but always as a more of a hobby you know it’s something i do to to connect to unwind to express you know and i enjoy it but never enough to like make a career out of it you know but my daughter she’s uh she’s she
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started right she took my guitar at age 13 and started writing songs you know and so uh she’s really trying to get herself launched as a musical artist and uh she’s got some pretty pretty strong talent we just did that show at the empanada lady a couple of weeks ago and it was great it was fun but yeah it’s we’re definitely a musical family and in our time of course my wife’s a painter artist you know and uh she’s you know so we we love we always we’re kind of the opposite a lot of
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families you know they want their kids to grow up to be doctors and lawyers and we wanted our kids to grow up to be like artists and actors and spiritual teachers and you know that kind of thing and we’ll see where they end up you know hopefully they’re whatever they do we’re going to support them of course but i think that they’ve got great role models in you and you yeah thanks and you know [Music] i remember when i grew up my parents not so much but aunt and uncle they thought i should work at the post office
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a real stable job with benefits yes and you know why for some people that’s again it’s really kind of what strategies to me needs you know never in those years when people would work go to a job work 40 years and then that was their life you know so not typical anymore though right in today’s world now it’s like how many times per year do you move you know it’s like flexible society yeah it’s very different yeah and you know who’s safe it’s better or worse it’s just different
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strategies to meet needs and you know some people do still i was just talking to a woman we met one of my wife’s high school uh classmates came out to the island and she hadn’t seen her in 32 years you know so we met up with him last night on the beach in in west side and just hung out with them and she’s worked in the same school system for 25 years you know as a counselor and and and was very happy about that but her husband has been like bumbling all over the place you know so both
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paths are equally valid potentially well you are i mean i’m saying this what’s really exciting about when i speak to you i maybe it’s just me you know i’ve known you so long i look at it when someone comes at you to try to hit you it’s not that you avoid it you have a way of smoothing out the edges of yes thank you for putting it that way and framing it in a way that is you’re responsive and you make room for someone’s comment it’s it’s a really i don’t know if you
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identify it that way but i can totally do i totally do you know it’s funny yes forgive me i love analogies i’m a huge analogy guy uh but it’s it’s just you know seems to be effective sometimes to teach that way and to explain things but uh if you if you know if you look at certain martial arts right um when i was a kid i took karate class you know because i was bullied and i wanted to fight back and um so i took karate and it was very like linear karate is very linear martial art taekwondo karate
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very linear martial arts kick kick punch punch but you block right force blocks force they’re very direct but then i um then you i started i haven’t studied this yet but i really want to learn aikido or tai chi those are circular martial arts right so when a punch comes in in aikido you don’t block it you move with the energy right and then redirect and there’s this thing called neuro-linguistic programming it’s a structured way of doing therapeutic approaches and more of a cognitive behavioral approach for
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therapy and they’ve got different techniques you know but a big thing in um nlp is all about building rapport you know building that rapport right moving is is pacing they call it pacing like moving with somebody first you pace then you lead you know that and it comes back to stephen covey you know seven habits of highly effective people guy right he said seek first to understand then seek to be understood right so it just makes us more effective when we can sort of match someone’s where they you know meeting people where
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they are and then gently you know guiding as opposed to being abrasive there is a place at times like to be abrasive too it can there’s something in nlp called a pattern interrupt where you know people get in these patterns right and they get stuck in these habits and patterns and sometimes if you can just do something drastic to break it it’s like when someone has hiccups you scare them right they shock them out of it you know kind of that that modality that can work and there’s a place for that too but i
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think more often it’s effective to to move with somebody and then you know what about this you know ben franklin was a master at that actually he would you know gently suggest changes as opposed to be people over the head of them now you probably as we’re talking think we’ve just been talking a few minutes can you believe we’ve been talking almost an hour but sir oh my gosh when i’m listening to you i you know it’s just my opinion but i hear so much meat in this structure in when you’re
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bringing up people it shows me if i were a parent well this guy is really flexible he’s really aware of the range of things and yet he leaves room i could see where i could put my child my youth in this environment and they might really get some great insights in fact so might i i i will i hope you know be we’re going to put your name and and things up on the screen i know you got it there behind the whole time but we’ll put it bigger because i think that um the more that people will look at you
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and the work that you’re doing the more they’re going to see multiple opportunities for themselves and their family in many ways or people they know yeah thank you we look forward to being in service for sure you know yeah i i think genesis was quite wise in finding you and you know i’m grateful for sure and um any important things like if if we got through this hour and i said oh i really wanted to say anything that comes to mind that you want to deliver to an audience wow uh yeah seek first to understand and seek
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to be understood if you want to improve your life you know go for empathy first and empathy is not agreeing with people empathy is not feeling what they’re feeling even it’s just simply having a sincere desire to understand their side of things you know understand what their universal needs are and if we can approach things that way i think you know we just have a much more peaceful world you know i’m with you that’s such a beautiful and of all the things to say that was the perfect thing david
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thanks man yeah i really appreciate the opportunity to be here and chat with you your uh uh your your as we say in judaism you’re a mensch well i try to be a host sometimes i get on my laps and go out so that someone can put out you know when i do all these interviews all these years of people with politicians i’m different than that i’m not there attacking i’m going to receive and let someone be more and more of who they are and share yeah you’re a wonderful model to what we’ve
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been talking about really i think thank you well thank you well world you have seen a doorway into david littman and a host of wonderful services i i could name them here but i think you should go up to the website and check it out more for sure david it’s really been a pleasure here with you i hope that if there’s anything that you ever want to share you always have an open door here with me ah thank you brother appreciate it yeah and all you people out there in radio tv do we have tv anymore
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i think we still have tv and in the media it’s wonderful when you spend this time here with me i’m very appreciative i’m your host jason schwartz and uh david littman it has been a pleasure thank you for being here thanks again and all you out there we will see you again have a wonderful week aloha
