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OLOWALU TDS…Dept of Health Head Lorrin Pang as a private citizen, Eddie Garcia, West Maui Farmer of Living Earth Systems, Liko Martin, Musician, Songwriter, Farmer speaking about Olowalu Temporary Disposal Site, Toxic Dump Site, its issues AND AWESOME potential solutions,
Summary & Transcript
– [00:00 → 06:53] Introduction and Context of Olowalu Temporary Toxic Dump Site
- Host Jason Schwarz welcomes listeners globally, noting time zones and wide audience reach.
- Primary topic: The designation of Olowalu as a temporary disposal site for toxic ash and waste resulting from the August 8 Lahaina fire.
- Public concerns raised:
- Lack of transparency and public review before the county council’s decision.
- Introduction of new toxic substances to the public, such as dioxins and furans, and confusion about their health impacts.
- Discussion of scientific perspectives:
- Some scientists (e.g., from Duke University, McGill) suggest toxic ash exposure already affects areas up to 20–50 km from the fire site, including the entire west side of Maui.
- Criticism of government agencies (EPA, Army Corps of Engineers, FEMA) for applying “blanket” policies and limited local agency autonomy.
- Political difficulties:
- The mayor and governor (both with judicial backgrounds) are constrained by larger institutional and political forces.
- The host emphasizes “Ho’oponopono”, a Hawaiian term meaning balance and open communication despite disagreements.
- Calls for containerization of toxic ash to prevent contamination:
- Questions the logic of mixing toxic ash with clean dirt to expand toxic waste volume.
- Concerns about the toxic dump site’s proximity to sensitive locations such as the main road to major tourist areas.
- Host urges public mobilization to pressure EPA, FEMA, and local government to stop the current dumping practice and adopt safer containment methods.
– [06:53 → 19:47] Broader Vision for Solutions and Community Engagement
- Host shares a vision of integrating cutting-edge waste processing technologies that have existed for decades but remain underutilized locally.
- Mentions MAMA, Maui Arts and Music Association (MAMA) and PAPA as community groups aiming to raise funds and awareness to support innovative environmental solutions.
- Promotes the concept of turning waste into safe building materials and natural soil enhancers (phyto-sudation), offering sustainable ecosystem benefits.
- Highlights the need for private sector involvement, naming wealthy individuals (Larry Ellison, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk) as potential investors to scale these solutions.
- Emphasizes the importance of community cooperation, knowledge-sharing, and positive action in facing environmental and social challenges.
- Host reflects on his long history of community activism (since early 1990s) and integrated resource planning.
- Introduces the Neutral Zone show’s role as a public platform for dialogue, education, and sustained coverage of the toxic waste issue.
– [19:47 → 31:31] Media Platforms and Upcoming Content
- Details about the show’s broadcast on:
- Radio: KAKU 88.5 FM
- TV: Akaku Maui Community Media (Channel 55)
- Streaming services and YouTube
- Encourages audience participation via call-in number: 808-873-3435.
- Preview of upcoming guests and segments:
- Scientists, Department of Health officials, local activists, and environmental experts.
- Topics include new theater projects, environmental technologies, and social justice for houseless populations.
- Shares a song “Unlock the Hope” by Lono God, symbolizing the need to unlock hope and make positive change.
– [31:31 → 38:15] Interview with Dr. Lorrin Pang, Maui Department of Health Head
- Dr. Pang discusses ethical and environmental concerns about relocating toxic waste:
- Moving toxins to less populated areas is not a solution; fewer people does not justify environmental harm.
- Example: Watershed areas and reef near Ola Walo are crucial ecosystems and must be protected.
- Addresses misconceptions on pollution dilution:
- Dilution by rain or water is not effective for ecosystems; total toxin load matters more than concentration alone.
- Toxic substances persist for up to 120 years, threatening long-term reef health.
- Critiques current disposal methods that involve pumping contaminated water back into the environment, questioning their scientific validity.
- Stresses that protecting the reef is paramount regardless of population density nearby.
- Emphasizes he speaks as a private citizen, advocating for transparent and responsible environmental management.
– [38:52 → 42:19] Interview with Eddie Garcia, Farmer and Environmental Advocate
- Eddie highlights international examples of successful waste containment:
- Sites in Germany, South Africa, Oregon, Minnesota, and Minneapolis use bailing and containerization technologies to safely store toxic waste.
- Argues that Maui County’s claims about containerization requiring 40 acres and 12,000 containers are mathematically incorrect.
- His group estimates 7,000 containers would be sufficient to hold 400,000 cubic yards of toxic ash.
- Questions the county’s resistance to containerization, suspecting bureaucratic or political reluctance.
- Calls for immediate halt to dumping at Olowalu and transition to safe, contained storage on or near site.
– [42:19 → 47:39] Overview of Technology Solutions and Their Benefits
- Introduction of Nev Solutions and related technologies:
- Machines that sort, chop, and transform toxic waste.
- Importance of keeping toxic waste dry and contained to prevent spreading through water.
- Clarification on terminology:
- Difference between pyrolysis (low-oxygen heating) and incineration (burning with oxygen).
- High-temperature incineration (>2000°F) can neutralize dioxins, but incomplete burning leaves toxic residues.
- Toxic components of ash include PVC plastics from buildings, which release carcinogenic dioxins and furans.
- Toxic chemicals like dioxins:
- Accumulate in fatty tissue.
- Persist for generations.
- Have no safe allowable exposure levels.
- Current testing and classification:
- Toxic vs. hazardous waste distinctions are unclear and problematic.
- Potential uses for processed toxic waste:
- Conversion into nano-particles sealed in concrete.
- Creation of hurricane-proof building materials.
- Recycling waste into safe construction panels, reducing dependence on imported lumber.
- Host expresses frustration that proven solutions are being ignored by authorities.
– [47:39 → 50:58] Proposal from Clean Harbors for Off-Island Waste Disposal
- Clean Harbors, a major U.S. waste disposal company, has submitted a proposal to the county and mayor’s office:
- Remove all toxic ash and debris.
- Containerize and ship it off-island (mainland U.S., Utah) for safe incineration and disposal.
- Estimated cost: $160 million (~$400 per cubic yard).
- This is significantly less than FEMA’s $4 billion estimated cleanup cost.
- Host questions why this option is not being seriously considered or acted upon.
- Raises concerns about cultural respect and environmental justice:
- Dumping toxic waste onsite at Ola Walo harms ocean, reef, and local communities.
- Shipping off-island could protect Maui’s environment and public health.
- Urges community members to demand transparency and action from local officials.
– [50:58 → 56:51] Closing Remarks and Call to Action
- Additional questions about logistics and sources of clean dirt being mixed with toxic ash.
- Recap of the urgency to find better solutions than expanding toxic dumps.
- Preview of upcoming guests for future shows: scientists, environmental experts from University of Oregon, Clean Harbors representatives.
- Closing with thanks to guests Leo Martin and Eddie Garcia, both emphasizing the political and environmental complexity of the issue.
- Encouragement to watch the full “People’s Council of Maui” meeting on Akaku Maui Stream.
- Host thanks the audience and signs off with aloha and peace.
Key Insights and Conclusions
- Olowalu’s current use as a temporary toxic waste dump is highly controversial and environmentally risky, especially due to proximity to sensitive reefs and communities.
- Public transparency and meaningful consultation have been lacking, leading to frustration and distrust.
- There are proven, safer alternatives such as containerization and off-island disposal that are being ignored or delayed.
- Toxic ash contains dangerous substances like dioxins and furans, which are persistent, bioaccumulative, and carcinogenic.
- Dilution of toxins in the environment is insufficient to protect fragile ecosystems.
- There is a strong call for community activism and pressure on local, state, and federal authorities to halt current practices and explore innovative solutions.
- Maui’s history of environmental activism and cultural values (e.g., Ho’oponopono) provide a foundation for collaborative problem-solving.
- Integration of cutting-edge waste technologies with community arts and culture efforts offers a hopeful path forward.
Timeline Table of Key Events and Topics
| Timestamp | Event/Topic |
|---|---|
| 00:00 – 06:53 | Introduction; Olowalu dump site controversy; toxic ash details |
| 06:53 – 19:47 | Vision for integrated tech solutions and community engagement |
| 19:47 – 31:31 | Media platforms overview; show previews; community call-in info |
| 31:31 – 38:15 | Interview: Dr. Lauren Pang on environmental and ethical concerns |
| 38:52 – 42:19 | Interview: Eddie Garcia on containerization & international examples |
| 42:19 – 47:39 | Explanation of waste processing technologies and benefits |
| 47:39 – 50:58 | Clean Harbors’ $160 million off-island disposal proposal |
| 50:58 – 56:51 | Closing remarks; call to action; preview of next shows |
Glossary of Key Terms
| Term | Definition / Explanation |
|---|---|
| Ola Walo | Temporary toxic waste dump site in West Maui |
| Dioxins & Furans | Toxic, persistent chemical compounds released from burning PVC and other materials |
| Containerization | Process of safely storing toxic waste in sealed containers to prevent contamination |
| Pyrolysis | Thermal decomposition of materials at high temperatures in low oxygen |
| Incineration | Burning waste with oxygen, reaching very high temperatures |
| EPA | Environmental Protection Agency, US federal environmental regulator |
| FEMA | Federal Emergency Management Agency, responsible for disaster response funding |
| Ho’oponopono | Hawaiian practice of reconciliation, balance, and open communication |
| Phyto-sudation | Natural process or product that enhances plant growth from waste materials |
| Clean Harbors | Large US hazardous waste disposal company |
Call to Action
- Engage with local and federal agencies (EPA, FEMA, Maui County officials) to demand safer waste management practices.
- Support community organizations like MAMA Maui Arts and Music Association working to fund innovative environmental technologies.
- Stay informed through platforms like Maui Neutral Zone and participate in public forums.
- Advocate for transparent decision-making and explore international best practices in toxic waste containment.
This summary is strictly based on the content of the video transcript provided and reflects the views and information shared by the host and guests during the broadcast.
Full Timestamped Transcript
00:00
[Music] well hello good morning this is Jason Schwartz I’m your host here at the neutral zone Mau neutral zone.com it’s 11 o’clock on Monday here in Hawaii Standard Time uh so if you’re in New Zealand you’re tomorrow an now hour or two ahead and if you’re in New York I think it’s 6 hours you’re 6 hours ahead California 3 hours ahead we have listeners from all over the world and we hope that you will share this with people wherever they are because we talk about subjects Maui based and more like
00:50
today we’re going to be talking about OloWalu as a temporary di dump site for toxic waste after the lahina fire of last year August 8th and I’m going to be bringing on scientist presentations and the Department of Health and others that share their uh views that they tried to share with the county but the county when at least according to what we’ve hear from the people no one read it before a public meeting where it was decided by the council um to choose olalo as a temporary dump site or disposal site and
01:37
um questions about the Ash and how toxic it is and things that suddenly the public hears of dioxin and furan and things they’ve never heard before about toxicity and disease and um different levels of understanding about that and there’s different levels of understanding about what to do with this Sash and what it means right now even right now like for example if you were to go to Duke University or Mcgill and speak to scientists there you’d be told that 20 to 50 kilometers that’s the example someone
02:17
talked to me of the ash being toxic and already that the public is already being exposed right now all over the whole west side of Mali for example well if no one checks in and the Department of Health and doesn’t have a way of um presenting it publicly in any way superior to the Army Corps of Engineers or the um Environmental Protection Agency or FEMA with it’s like a blanket and that the monies go for pro approved programs and many things that might be reviewed locally can’t even be acted on imagine
03:00
you’re a mayor and you lived your whole adult life as a judge so you relied on institutions and the correctness of what they were doing for your verdicts for your whole career and now suddenly in a major crisis where everything going on same with Dr Josh Green who’s now our governor these decisions have others that are pulling the strings if we want to get the support that many think that we need and all the politics that goes on with this and all the uh stuff going on of blame blame blame blame blame you know I I say leave
03:40
blame aside in in Hawaiian I learned that hoponopono not only means balance but when you’re there and we don’t agree ca ca I never heard those words before that means we agree to still be in in communication but we don’t agree on something you know but communication is open like here like the neutral zone anyway today that’s what I’m going to do I’m going to talk about something like I had a conversation with the head of the Department of Health who’s going to be on this show here at
04:13
some fut he was on a Saturday the um people’s Council of Maui show they had um I think it was 1:00 to five o’clock or six o’clock a five hour kind of a deal four hour on a Saturday and everyone was invited if you weren’t there you miss something that I didn’t think it was really a good idea to miss and so I asked akaku for a copy of that tape that I’d be able to use portions on this show not to commercialize but to be able to pass on information to the public because public will make it like right
04:53
now we’re still waiting to hear I heard in the news that there was no decision on the final moving and approvals for land whatever is going on here and without getting into details while all this is happening more material Ash and waste is being brought to olalo mixed with other dirt there now if that’s temporary and now you’re going to be moving it you’ve created even more moving and then you’re going to move it to somewhere and nowhere in here did someone say to you hey this stuff is
05:34
already toxic in the air what’s going on and been going on since the fire is toxic and the whole west side and no one announces that because tourism would kind of what tumble would you want to be living there or knowing that this Ash has to be that’s the question why don’t you put it into box cars into storage containers then you can decide whether you want them on island moved and not in some temporary burrito soft plastic shell to then why are you putting it in a temporary site and making more waste
06:13
more toxic waste taking pure perfectly Clean and Clear dirt we hope from somewhere else land dirt ground dirt and and making more volume and then you’re going to put it on a little skinny Roose that’s your link your virtually only link to your major tourist location in L on the West Side the SK what are you doing why why are you continuing to do this now that you know you have a a permanent site why don’t you get some empty containers do all your bundling with your plastic if you want and then put them somewhere
06:53
temporary you’ve got temporary control and can immediately with help I’m sure and cooperation put containers stack them as high and wide as you need to until this final site and then there make it a recycling refurbishment when you start to hear some of the things that have been already shared that could be an alternative to what’s been going on you might be outraged then you might realize how the mayor’s hands maybe he has control maybe he does maybe he could immediately allocate money and get
07:30
containers well maybe FEMA won’t pay for that piece I don’t know what FEMA will pay for but what is the cost for losing tourism and people and their lives you tell me I don’t have to even ask I know the answer and so do you you know if if you want to be in a politician and you want to talk with money that comes from a major source your hands are restricted because of the incredible demands from people and maybe justly so you know that they need help a lot of people now need help more than ever before and they
08:08
weren’t in the burn Zone but their rents are still going up they still need housing before the fire before this and no matter who caused it and no matter what is the reason it happened I believe we all recognize put this stuff in containers containerize so whoever is listening if you ever want to talk to someone that has the capacity and the authority to stop things from going into olalo temporary dump deposit disposal site uh stop them tell them to stop it now and start accumulating on or near
08:53
site or even onsite do these things in steps I don’t really understand or have The Authority or capacity to give you reasons why for or against but I can tell you in every scenario anything in your own world if you have a toxin you box it you contain it you don’t decide and mix it with something clean and create more volume of waste so if the EPA is the reason then we we need to get enough of you voices that are here in Hawaii in MA and all over the world please United States and all over to make a direct
09:35
contact with the EPA EPA the Environmental Protection Agency or FEMA or you know the governor or if you know the mayor or if you know the president or someone in anywhere that can make an influence and maybe attract the affluence maybe it’s private money that recog izes in time that these things we’re talking about are Cutting Edge Technologies you’re going to see it as I start sharing these clips these are Cutting Edge technologies that I myself personally know have been around for a
10:14
decade but people that have been studying have been studying for a decade and two and three decades the early 90s I remember early Technologies I call them early some people found them late when I was talking about soul co-generation in early 1990s to the Maui Electric integrated resource planning board we could have we should have but here we are now we’re God 30 years later good ideas don’t have to go away and be not used good ideas and technology that over time has been shown and proven need to be implemented even
10:58
it’s if it’s the private sector that funds it and many of you who know me know that the idea of Mama Maui Arts and Music Association and papa people aligned in positive action participatory action patrons of the Arts What A Great Notion to enjoy our art and music and culture and through that allocate big numbers money toward development of technologies that cause and create solutions that make our Island one of the leaders in the world in getting rid of their landfills and being able to
11:38
take some of the waste and use it for building materials that are 100% safe to be able to take the resources green waste and process it and create all kinds of phyto sudal that means um natural good things that can help our plants grow like I call it Jurassic Park gigantic growth out of waste products that we normally are just wasting and not using wisely so many things that could happen these systems integrate and create solutions that an entrepreneur with vision and money if Larry Ellison or Jeff Bezos or um Elon Musk I mean I
12:26
only use the names that I know I know that there are many people that are wealthy that could be part of our vision and help us Implement multi-million dollar solutions for problems that can be solved but our government and the system that is don’t have money or don’t unless you want to keep going in debt forever but some people have the resources and have the ability to finance something that in scale can change the world they already have accumulated resources and they could help Propel whether it’s Larry Ellison
13:08
who who has his own island or owns 90 something percent imagine that as an example imagine Maui we didn’t create this problem unless those of you believe that we did create it that’s another story for another day I have people that are not able to sleep because because all the things they’ve been hearing about all these years they now see how all the pieces fit together and they get alarming and I say alarming that’s something that for someone else to address more specifically than me but solutions that
13:49
can find a way from where we are now forward that should be um I say a politician that should be a government that is responsive to the people I mean after this show uh my good friend and engineer Tony midnight has a guest on Lisa Dary you’ve seen her on our show I don’t want to give away the the show but you should be tuning in after we’re off here today and if not look it up and find it because Lisa’s been for the houseless a champion only in that she’s very vocal and very clear and very
14:27
Charming very clear knows her stuff helps people a real blessing to our community a lot of these agencies I somehow they fear a person like Lisa they they don’t know what to do with a person like Jason who’s up and talking we I’d like to see people coming here to our show this neutral zone call in you can see at the bottom right we’re a Callin 808 873 3435 if you’re on the radio you can’t see through the radio 80 8873 3435 is our Callin talk show number and we also have um television component and
15:11
that were simoc cast like when I bring on things today you’re going to be able to see those clips that I’m going to play uh and Visually see them at this people’s Council of Maui’s I want to say first meeting CAO Martin and John Cruz and Leo Martin uh K’s father and others in the olala community and elders and kapuna and interested citizens and uh well there was an interested environmental uh department worker from Maui County there and there was um the head of the Department of Health in Maui
15:50
there and scientists from well three four five scientists so all of that we’re going to bring in little Clips here and keeping this issue constant and if someone wants to look at this issue from many aspects they can watch our go to Maui neutral zone.com and see we have numbers of shows and we’re going to have some more here until we resolve this issue it’s front and center until we raise money for an alternative so the Maui Arts and Music Association component organizing shows we’re not
16:24
interested in diminishing we’re interested in elevating and expanding our reach into the world and branding all of these things under mama and papa to the world and then all these organizations from Maui still get to have their own glory and light and can raise money through all that they’re doing including their affiliation through us but if money is allocated on shows different categories different shows into specific technologies that me and our board and a growing board by the way if you think you’d like to be on our
17:04
board or our Board of advisors please reach out 808 874 5900 888745 900 those of you watching the simoc cast are seeing that here at K kuu 88.5 FM and akaku Maui Community media television I still called television channel 55 they time will cast these radio shows but we also have them up on the web they live on YouTube and they also live here at the akaku dorg uh stream they have Maui stream as an app on the phone how easy is that three of the channels can you imagine how much goes on here public education
17:52
and government are given money from the cable subscriber bills and however else they scr to be making or I say scr however they raise their money well we’re going to be independent of all that and raising money for important technology growth so we can show something works to attract investors some of them may want to get involved uh right from here and I say the beginning this started 33 years ago when I started this nonprofit of Maui Arts and Music Association and you know I can’t tell you how much um I
18:34
appreciate the people that come up to me and say you’re that guy that’s been doing this and did that and did this you were here and standing for this and that you know I may be Hawaiian but I never felt any distance from you you’re very respectful yeah I hope to be and if I’m not please point it out but do it in a loving way because you know I have nothing but Good Will and that good will if we extend it outward to the world that’s how we impact how we each treat each other and
19:11
everything with Aloha which the Hawaiian are global leaders and will be more especially when Mama and Papa words that are used in many cultures in many languages centered around saving our Earth SA leaving our Island and you know these aren’t created things these are things that yeah we should have would have could have started when I was doing this should have started before that but that’s how I got involved in integrated resource planning in the early 90s as an independent who had technology to create
19:47
Solutions before the problems were like they are now we can still handle them but wouldn’t you like to get ahead of a problem be there to solve a problem before the wave gobbles up the shore before we have an ash and we watch some Antiquated system and Antiquated decisions of what’s good and what’s bad uh control us and stop us from doing the best well what a big opening wow I’m looking at the clock so I can see right well I talked a long time that’s good this is K KU 88.5 FM
20:31
I’m Jason Schwarz your host of the neutral zone ma neutral zone.com you can find also on YouTube you can find us at akaku AK a.org you can find us simcast right now and on Saturday morning at 7 a.m. following democracy Now on channel 55 here at akaku Maui Community TV and I believe that it’s on radio at the same time k kuu k kuu 88.5 needs a marketing arm and that may mean that it’s going to be uh us at Mama putting uh doing shows and including Public Access television and radio to be
21:14
able to show what we do there’s this man radio and I take off my hat to them they’re bursting at the seams well this is a public access station and I imagine there’s some difference in some ways about the our starters and what you can and can’t do but people need to know and see the tremendous programming this I think is Pacifica based uh streaming they get Pacifica shows and we don’t have local shows but we have some really committed local people Tony midnight for one does his
21:48
show four days a week here at one in the afternoon and uh I mean my friend de Mora St John who has a Friday show gutsy women they just did a show at the proarts theater well you know and then you know this this is a small community here and so when we show to the world and I can talk about proarts and the musicians and the shows that are going on there and there are people coming from all over the world and can be interact even before they come here or if they come here or never come here to help create
22:25
Solutions here by enjoying music and art that they may not even step on the ground or if they do they already are kind of preet up to go see they want to go see Gretchen roads or maybe they want to go see Lenny Castellanos or Mick Fleetwood they heard is going to do something special or maybe it’s Pat Pat Tillman Jr or senior or maybe we have a really rich maybe it’s Alice Cooper Michael McDonald you know there are things happening here on Maui Stephen Tyler George Benson Jim Neighbors some
23:01
of these people are here some are gone some are dead and there are new people too our whole world would love to know what’s going on in Maui because it has been a Mecca and a Haven for talented artists I was singing I I came up to sing one song with Patricia Watson at a place I think it’s changed his name in keii and when I was done standing room only crowd they said you know Paul Simon was at the bar really you don’t know what’s going on here on Maui and there are lots of people here that if they
23:33
hear the word maybe they hearing this show now and they say I know someone who should hear about this uh there’s someone I know who has similar interest and maybe that thing they did in Germany or in Minneapolis or they’re doing it in Oregon or they’re doing it in Texas or they’re doing it in South America or they’re doing it they’re doing it and we’re on an island we need some of these things more than anybody else and anyway that was too much of an introduction I’m
24:01
going to play some clips for you and do a little more of that and maybe play a piece of music or two in the meantime let’s see this song was competing as I was trying to do my opening today so you may not hear it because the BR rebroadcast will have the uh the opening credits differently of just the opening song but here’s a song written by Lono God almost 25 years ago unlock the Hope oh it’s me singing but it’s lono’s song Good song the time has come to make a change the time has come to unlock the
24:50
hope that lives in each and every one of us and we must to our part we hold the Visions God dreams of our hands can heal the ones we love let’s gather around and let us make a stand for you and me unlock the hope and there’s a better life unlock the hope there’ll be no turning back but nothing changes unless we unlock the [Music] hole the time has come to make a change the time has come to unlock the hope that lives in each and every one of us and we must do our part we hold the Visions God dreams
26:03
of our hands can heal the ones we love let’s gather around and let us make a stand for you and me unlock the hope and there’s a better life unlock the hope there’ll be no turning back but nothing changes unless we unlock the whole but nothing changes unless we unlock the whole but nothing changes [Music] oo unless we unlock the whole unless we unlock the Hope unlock the Hope unless we unlock Jack Leen was the head of the Department of Health here in the state of Hawaii un thank you you know um Lono was living in
27:35
Maui Meadows Lono is over in um mikay now LOM music.com and um we he was living in Maui Meadows and there was this political rally at Dr Rick Perry’s house across the street on um kopala Drive in Maui Meadows and we went cross the street and there was a little gathering with Jack Luen who was running for governor at the time early in the race and Lono went home and wrote this song and and um gave me a chance to sing it and um then I went in the studio with you know studios in Maui at least back then
28:21
there was a drummer Nam rato and he’s also many people know him as that wonderful Italian guy with the beautiful wife Patty but he um for drummers to be able to rehearse they need some kind of padding because neighbors kind of get a little crazy so I’ve seen a couple of triple three or four Studios on Maui over time that started by musicians who their neighbors needed quiet and so they built these rooms that became Studios or maybe were built to be Studios but um at Renato’s Studio I got a chance to
29:01
sing and then wow unlock the hope we need to unlock the hope now for the people in olalo for the people in Hawaii for the people in the world who have things that they find to be major obstacles that they can’t overcome we need to be working together and cooperating together and sharing information and standing up and not standing up with anger staring up up with standing up with knowledge and experience and recommendations so that even those that are on most high will explore and use and allow solutions that are already
29:44
Technologies here and we need to get our private sector Champions and our lovers of music and art around the world including Maui to help these dreams come true and save Maui or Hawaii or surely Maui and its West Maui travel destination as knowledge happens over time uh we’ll be pointing to more fingers of why it wasn’t done right and why when we had a choice we didn’t choose differently couple of rainfalls and already what’s being created in olalo will overflow past the systems that have been
30:26
put in place and toxify forever and you know these areas it’s like come on and you know we don’t even this moment well let me just get some more science on let me stop yapping all right we have time now I have all kinds of clips that you’re going to be seeing and hearing over the next show and I have guests that I want to bring on one David Johnston from Maui Academy will talk about the new theater that they’re building and his donor and and I’m going to talk and bring on ideas about them
31:01
and proarts and the mac and E theater and more coming together on a different level which you’re hearing about in pieces and if you look at Maui artsand music.org you can see more of it well boy all these clips were really good Lauren Pang from the Department of Health uh we’re goingon to have him on but what he said was such good Common Sense I’d like to start with that Lauren Pang um I think he wants to come up here and say a few words so we’re going to hand him you can just take my mic right
31:31
here Lauren you can come right next to you Edie uh thank you I am not an elder at least I don’t want to think of I I used to be a young guy now I’m getting there and some people say in 10 years when you’re really a Elder you would have lost it so say it now uh I want to comment on a couple things you say um remember me there’s two points I might get one is that if somebody some Community has a problem and generated a lot of toxins well should we just move it to somebody else well maybe we could if
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5,000 people has some problem for whatever reason never mind the blame why don’t we move it to where there’s five guys then less guys to complain uh I grew up in nanu my mother’s from Maui my grandmother’s from Maui her others from Maui but I grew up in nanu and above me there’s nobody should we just move the stuff there nobody to complain whoa we were told that is where the Watershed water comes from Honolulu if we didn’t Jew the aquafer we’re going to take from the
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reservoir nobody goes up there so the point is just because there’s less people doesn’t give you the right I didn’t know until I went to A’s first farm that that was so crucial to the Olu Reef now maybe we don’t drink the water but it’s going to The Reef I I had no idea I I dove olao I see the reef and I I hit some of those cold spots but I didn’t realize it was coming so close from his farm so once again the take-home message is hey just cuz fewer people are there if there’s nobody there
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you don’t put it there when it’s going to really ruin a big system next is a little bit different you’re going to hear very soon that there’s a problem here but you know what when I take my samples of the water it’s not that bad maybe it’s not that bad uh first of all it is bad and nobody knows how bad it can be there are too many chemicals and toxins at Once In The Water some people said hey hopeless already the ocean got so many microplastics this is the form of microplastics or what’s a little more I
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don’t think Olu has that much microplastics as what could wash down but nonetheless they’re going to say we we sample and you’re going to say Hey you sampled the wrong part um isn’t it true Dr Pang that the solution to pollution is delution so if you get a high concentration of stuff and I diluted it out isn’t that like okay and you think about it that’s what we were taught and that’s for a individual person look if I can drink if I’m only going to drink one quart of water I’d rather have it
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diluted so there’s less per quart of water that’s for the individual but for a ecosystem like The olal Reef I don’t care how much you dilute it now it rains so it’s going to be diluted hey it’s being diluted but it’s to total amount coming into your area that he showed with brown you know the reef so that thing about delusion and the rain’s going to dute it first of all you’re supposed to contain a whole thing but as it comes in and it will keep coming in these things will last
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about my calculation 120 years average well that’s enough to kill a reef but you get it right if the the toxins whether it’s in Lao or ol if it went worldwide spread worldwide W okay okay that’s quite a dilution but to dilute it and say well now it’s diluted to the old hu Reef that ain’t enough of a dilution by the way there was a guy I can’t remember his name he talked about his Cesspool okay now about the Cesspool now I know that about that when we use the cess pool it is from us you got to lower
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that weight based product nitrate quite a lot in order to drink the water to drink the water oh I don’t we just dilute them out that’s good cuz we’re drinking the water but that same pollutant nitrates do you know how much you have to lower it to not affect the reef the injection WS of L that’s why they stop the injection WS less than 1% when you attack an ecosystem you really got to get to lower levels and I don’t care if you temporarily dilute it with the rainfall it’s just
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going to come in I was hoping for total containment and I don’t quite understand where’s Donna where’s Donna yeah Donna you remember I helped you set up aquariums at look when the aquarium leaks you’re going to pump it back into the aquarium that it’s not leaking but overflowing I just don’t get it how you g to Pump It Up and hope that it what I just don’t get the math okay and besides it’s not your little aquarium you’re draining from this whole Basin coming in but you’re going to
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recirculate what does that do I mean really what does that do so I I kind of got like problems with it but I wasn’t really alarmed about the reef I I had no idea that the pot to The Reef was so important I had no idea olalo Reef was so important usually the most important re is where I dive I dive in uh camalo camalo defend that reef and I live on the white ha side I think it’s called kapuna or kapuna the Springs at the head of the Y ha stream and when I di I don’t see any spring they said go in the ocean and sure
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enough it’s cold and that’s what feeds it so everyone like I’m only aware of where I go so I go visit edans like wow that’s worrisome but it I I I’m come to believe from what I saw mokai that olalo reef is so important fine then I don’t I I don’t mean to say this but I don’t care if nobody lives up there to complain don’t put it up there you’re going to kill the reef thank you oh I speak as a private citizen I speak as a private citizen I got big sculling when I they said that some guy
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said I could never speak again as a private citizen because I use my position for state government and my MD degree to hide behind I’m not hid me on anything okay let’s have a discussion good that was Lauren Pang the Department of Health head here in Maui who’s outspoken and also incredible Global Experience in crisis around the world uh he’s doctor Pang graduated from uh important universities here in United States Canada and um I’m I’m going to go back because I mean this was
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quite a show when I think about what I saw there was a a guy has a farm you’ve saw him here on our show Living Earth Systems that’s Eddie Garcia now Eddie has a farm and never mind that here’s a little bit of Eddie Garcia uh where can we see examples of the successful use of some of the Technologies were put forward um as you heard from Phillip you can go to Hamburg Germany you can go to South Africa uh if you’ve heard from some of the other guys you can go to Oregon State you can go to
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I forget Minneapolis or Minnesota as well where there are sites that are up and working and we have already invited the county and the state and the County Council to come visit these sites they did not think that it was important enough to look at these Avenues and again so that’s why we put it out to you the public do you feel like it’s important enough or there’s enough that our um Administration should be taking the time to look at these possible solutions that’s what it’s basically
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about so they had this meeting was long and unless you were there on Saturday you didn’t get to hear a couple more questions then I’m going to bring on a scientist or two or more but we have more than for this show here’s more of Eddie Garcia another nine minutes worth listen to these questions and answers um is that the one I want to play the one that to me just jumps out always is this one so I’ll start it’s a minute 24 seconds about containerization we talk about containerization
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um putting all of our material in one place and containing it in a safe area where it doesn’t get wet um there’s bailing technology when I was in South Africa I watched them put something in an avocado sort of a container spin it with plastic wrap around it and they were bonding toxic material and stuffing it in containers for a problem that existed there so so I know personally I’ve seen it so now we’re putting it to other folks this is some bailing technology here it’s a fraction of
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landfilling and some of the other companies can still use what it’s wrapped in and turn it into fuel containers County told us that there’s no way we could put it in containers they told us it would take 40 acres and 12,000 containers well guess right their math is wrong and we’ve proven this beyond the shadow of a doubt for the amount of material if it is in fact 400,000 cubic yards it will sit in 7,000 containers 7,45 ft containers which we have been in talks with Mattson Paca these guys are ready to step up they’re
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ready to make these containers available why is the county so against this why do they not want to they’re M they’re using every excuse in the world to put it in the landfill instead of contain it it makes me wonder but again again I I keep going back to the EPA and the decision makers we need at that level wherever it’s not the EPA whoever it is that can stop it from continuing to go to olalo and start storing it nearby in containers right now right now right today today right now until you move it
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to wherever you’re going to move it to stop making it worse in Olu Alo that would be my first request I hope that others you will speak up and out now is good into no more and that was Nev that we were talking to before uh transforming uh Solid Waste we’re going to just skip through this pretty quick here but the machines that he talks about you can see up on here sort repurpose transform in order to make this happen you need a clean facility to do it so that you’re not um contaminating the environment around you
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there’s nowhere on the planet it that they take toxic material and add water to it that’s like a no no you want to keep the water out of it you don’t want to add something that could make it more transportable through a liquid scenario so one we know we want to keep it dry we want to keep it contained we want to keep it out of the elements so yes containment is super important and all of these things focus on that it needs to be contained so we can try any of these uh Technologies out so to bring it
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into some somewhere and contain it um some pretty fancy machines there that do some sorting uh we’re hearing some confusion about what pyrolysis is and what um gasification which is pyrolysis or incineration we talk about burning something with oxygen that’s your incineration so you can reach high temperatures with that dioxin actually becomes non-toxic over 2,000 de and it’s part of the County’s argument oh this stuff is burned at such high temperatures it’s not toxic anymore here
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here’s the caveat to that everything that you see in lahina that is not burnt that is still super toxic people are unaware that PVC uh polyvinyl chloride uh PVC is found in water pipes around electrical wiring around conduit in vinyl siding and so the average household for 2 feet of square footage on a house is on a conservative level one square foot of PVC material it actually brings the number in Lina to the uh mount on there and I don’t have the math in front of me but it’s basically uh
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333 million uh cubic feet of PVC in lahina L linear feet excuse me um so how much of that is burned at high temperatures and how much of that can you still tell what it is if you can still tell what it is it’s t toxic one of my gripes on my farm all of my pvc pipe burned and I haven’t had any help anywhere to clean it up I don’t want to touch it because I know how toxic it is you can’t touch it taste it you can’t smell it but it soaks into your body into your fatty tissues and it will stay
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with you for five generations if it accumulates enough in your system it will change your DNA it will literally cause mutations not to mention cancer there are no allowable levels for dioxin and furans why are why isn’t it our number one testing it should be at the very highest part of our list to test for dioxins and furans and whatnot we know about the Arsenic we know about the heavy metals we know about all that so again back to that question if it’s not hazardous it’s considered toxic we can
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all take the toxic stuff but not the Hazardous stuff if it’s toxic isn’t it hazardous won’t it still hurt us how can they separate that on on a piece of paper and tell us no no no that’s not hazardous wait a second if I breathe it I’m going to die it’s going to kill my kid that’s not hazardous so there needs to be some serious um discussion about this lingo um that’s out there because hazardous is hazardous I don’t care if it’s toxic or Hazard it is so and we
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need to treat it that way we know what’s in it um so we’re still talking about uh neb solution here and like I said this is a multitude of technologies that all work together sorted it split it chop it um we’re also talking with the other teams and all the other technologies that are available to do this but they all come down to one thing containing it Nev uh process also turns it into Nano particles which then can be sealed in concrete um and are basically pretty harmless to the environment and can be
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used as building materials wow we have to ship in all of our building materials nowadays and we’re chopping down trees to do it why wouldn’t we turn our trash into houses who’s going to throw house away I mean it’s like seriously there’s so many answers that are potentially available with us for looking at some of these Solutions why would we turn to Blind Eye turn a blind eye to it and say no we’re not even going to look at it so we’re going to skip past here now these
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are some of the Nano particles that they create with one of the Nev Solutions and some of that they’re actually showing through years down the road can actually grow plants and whatnot in it some of the area is also Nev also builds these amazing houses that are uh hurricane proof they’ve been put all over the world they encapsulate some of the material make it into panels and now you have a building solution to perhaps rebuild Lina as well um so that’s just within those Solutions and the people
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that he’s working with and then we’re going to get to the big one that um I say the big one because we’ve all been told it can’t be taken off Island we’ve been told by FEMA that it is a 4 billion price tag this is on their material we have it here somewhere um but you can find it on the County uh slides they basically say a $4 billion problem well if it’s a $4 billion problem for FEMA then how come clean harbers has a proposal on their desk right now in fact this is the email to leomi and myself
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and all of us in the group and this has already been delivered to the mayor’s office to the Corp of Engineers everybody 100 people on this list were all emailed this and we have receipts that they have it so basically they’re saying look we will remove all of this material containerize it put it on a boat and take it to Utah and burn it in an incinerator not only that besides an incinerator they have other Technologies these are one of the largest waste disposal companies in America and
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they’ve said look for $400 a yard we will take it all off the island and get it taken care of properly why are we not doing that Mr Mayor Mr Governor County why are we not doing that we’ve heard the excuse of Eevee and with all due respect uh we want to Define what exactly that means right now why can we not ship this to the mainland when we have a company that will do it for $160 million that’s less than 4% of a $4 billion price tag are you telling me my children and my grandchildren are not worth $4 billion
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they’re not worth $160 million they’re not worth you taking the time to look at and actually just entertain the thought for us as a community when we’ve been asking you why we can’t take it somewhere else so if there’s a reason culturally that we can’t take it somewhere else then we want to hear from you if you’re out there right now whoever you are then explain to us the difference between the Eevee the difference between the earns and what stops us from taking it to the mainland
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is it respectful to our ancestors to put them in a pit roll them over with bulldozers contaminate non-c contam ated AA and then let it seep into the ocean and blow into the air on another Community I don’t think one wrong or one justifies another so I asked this question seriously to my community and I think we’re all asking this question so that’s something that has to be answered so these guys at Clean Harbors they’re these are Big players in this and they just need the county to
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get back in touch with them and acknowledge these uh proposal have been put on their desk and they’ve been waiting now for weeks for them just to answer them and so they can give them more comprehensive reports and bring it back down to the exact numbers but their rough estimates put it about $160 million a $40 million landfill that the count is telling us is the answer at olalo which they’re now combining with three times the amount of material how much does it cost to bring the 50 trucks a day and where is that
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material coming from this is another County for the qu question for the county where are you bringing this material that’s coming in as clean dirt mixing it with some of the most toxic materials known to man and then saying you’re going to move it again so like how does that make any sense anywhere to me it doesn’t so I’m asking you everyone out there in the group we want your input in this and we want to know how this makes sense yeah I think those were that was Eddie Garcia who has a farmed out there in um West
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Maui he and our group put um a lot of money into trying to find solutions that made sense and um they’re important they is why I’m bringing these pieces on the show here’s a couple more questions from Eddie Garcia I was going to play Nev or uh the guy from Clean Harbors well we’ll do that on either the next show or the one after after maybe the next show um Jim Hol Homer they call him from Clean Harbors there on the mainland talking about what they able to do with plastics and Kevin DT from PDO Technologies and
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Skip Rochford who’s a leads a team of scientists at the University of Oregon for 20 years and more coming up in our next show and again if you want want to get this show to the mayor or people that work responsibly that can make an influence on the governor or the EPA to be able to Halt what’s going on now change the what they’re doing now be able to stop until they go to their next step and not further pollute olalo and cause even more potential real crisis and horror from what this is doing never mind that the
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ash already is traveling huge distances and causing problems that we’re not identifying here I’ll bring some scientist from a university that’s done study to be able to show you you know now I look at the clock I really think I’ve got it looks like every time I look up it looks like eight minutes and if I look from over here is it eight it might be eight it might be eight well here’s about 4 minutes worth from Leo Martin Leo you saw in the show doing music but listen to his wisdom prioritizing right get to a yard
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and say okay what what who are the suspects who who do I first round up because as U wallu is at sub the place where all of this is occurring in life haa to me it is obvious that the issue of the political situation in the Hawaiian islands is at the top is at the top of all of this and as I’ve held that position um you know I’m just saying that this is this is important so important because not to say that oh because if you’re going to restore government that that you’re not going to have corruption you’re not
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going to have things like that but that you will have a mechanism of of of you have a a a foundation of agreements or or you know political stuff that you can follow up and you work with and that because just because olalo is a Target now tomorrow where’s the next Target there will be more targets and there are more targets already on the books because the issue of the political situation in the Hawaiian islands has been avoided and this avoidance is is is obvious they’ve left the trail something
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you can follow up on when the Congress 9 says we we’re going to to acknowledge ramifications it has not been the fires in White in in in the H is a ramification that has not been what is happening in Olu walu is a more severe now it’s compounded to if that’s what is going to allowed to just Leo has more to say but we’re running out of time so we’re going to have it on the next show thank you Leo thank you um to Eddie Garcia and to um all the other guests I brought here that were there at that uh people’s Council
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of Maui you can watch the whole thing on akaku Maui stream you’ll find it and akak who.org we got 20 seconds left thank you all of you for watching from a distance and live and in color Maui neutral zone.com you can find this show even tomorrow morning and uh all the other shows and shows from before we became Maui neutral zone where we were Mama presents and will be again we only have a little bit of time left that means it’s time for the jingle thank you for joining us everyone been a
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pleasure we love you Aloha peace
