SAM SMALL Casts a Big Shadow !

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SAM SMALL, host of Maui Causes TV. Conversation Discussion about where he sees Maui going. He brings up some touchy issues we surely will discuss in this next year. 12-10-2018

Summary & Transcript Below
The Neutral Zone with Jason Schwartz and Guest Sam Small
[00:00 → 07:43] Introduction and Background of Sam Small

•    [00:00] The show opens with Jason Schwartz welcoming listeners to The Neutral Zone on KAKU 88.5 FM, thanking sponsors like NaKaOi Motors Maui Car Rentals. The program airs live Mondays and Saturdays.
• [00:44] Sam Small, the guest, is introduced. He is described as the host, director, producer, and chief organizer of Maui Causes, a prominent advocate for Maui’s people.
• [01:32] Sam shares his media background starting from high school, running the morning announcements and playing music as a DJ. He explains how he began his journey in media and speech communications.
• [03:18] Sam recounts the influence of his grandfather, who was involved in the Socialist Movement in New York City and labor unions, fighting against exploitative trusts and monopolies like Rockefeller’s oil trusts. This activism inspired Sam’s commitment to community advocacy.
• [04:33] Sam emphasizes accountability and healing systemic issues, framing his work as a mission inspired by family legacy.
• [05:14] The conversation shifts to current public health issues, especially vaccine mandates. Sam criticizes the Hawaii Department of Health for accepting federal vaccine mandates without public consent or debate, highlighting a lack of community input in important health decisions.
• [07:09] Discussion about the right to informed consent and the lack of public representation in health policy decisions.

1. 1. 1. 1. [07:43 → 27:25] Critique of Local Activism and Shaka Movement History

• [07:43] Sam introduces the concept of “Donald Rumsfeld activists,” describing a toxic pattern among some local activists who avoid accountability by rewriting history and reframing failures to protect their self-image.
• [09:25] He explains the psychological pathology where activists refuse responsibility for failures and manipulate narratives to maintain influence, resulting in community burnout and disillusionment.
• [13:50] Sam reflects on his experience with the Shaka Movement in 2014, a grassroots campaign against Monsanto aimed at placing an initiative on the Maui County ballot.
• [15:27] He describes the success of the movement in gathering signatures and the subsequent public relations battle with Monsanto, which gained media coverage overshadowing their grassroots efforts.
• [17:18] Sam recounts his role as media director for the Shaka Movement, producing content and managing the messaging — leveraging his professional background in media production.
• [19:08] Despite the victory and significant personal and professional investment, including long hours and financial sacrifice, Sam reveals his burnout and health struggles resulting from the intense campaign period.
• [21:13] Shortly after surgery related to these health issues, Sam received a letter from the Shaka Movement’s board dissolving committee structures, effectively pushing him and other key activists out.
• [24:37] Sam explains that the Shaka Movement’s leadership shifted to a closed group, sidelining original members and community participation, turning the organization into a private entity detached from its grassroots origins.
• [26:16] He emphasizes that the current Shaka Movement is not the same organization that won the campaign and that they nonetheless claim credit for those achievements.
• [26:53] The Shaka Action Fund, a political action committee (PAC), also emerged from this shift. Sam gave them assets but was excluded from ongoing community education efforts.
• [27:25] The segment closes with a promise to discuss the personal and community impacts of this deception after a break.

1. 1. 1. 1. [28:02 → 29:45] Station Announcements and Community Events

• 
• [28:02] The show pauses for community announcements, including a free family-friendly Christmas event at the Yale Theater on December 10, organized by the Maui Breakfast Club and others.
• [29:07] Additional announcements include Grateful Dead music programming and encouragement to support listener-funded KAKU 88.5 FM with donations.
• [29:45] The Neutral Zone returns with a brief introduction to Sam Small and the continuation of their discussion.

1. 1. 1. 1. [30:28 → 45:14] Local Political Landscape and County Government Accountability

• [30:28] Sam discusses the political shift after the 2018 Maui County Council election, expressing hope for positive change with a new majority open to reform.
• [32:06] He observes that council members historically do not communicate or coordinate effectively, often operating in silos focused on individual agendas.
• [33:26] The role of the council chair is explained as a facilitator of meetings rather than a political leader, emphasizing the importance of neutral management.
• [34:41] Sam shares his conversations with council members about untapped community assets and knowledge on how municipalities should be run, highlighting best practices in public works and administration.
• [35:28] He underlines the lack of accountability in Maui County’s government, noting that the County Council has never initiated an investigation despite having the power to do so.
• [36:09] The discussion turns to the upcoming announcement of County directors by Mayor Mike Victorino, with anticipation that these selections will indicate the administration’s direction.
• [37:33] Sam notes ongoing issues, such as faulty decisions on infrastructure projects (e.g., injection wells), where Corporation Counsel defends poor decisions, leading to costly lawsuits.
• [38:59] He elaborates on the intimidation tactics used by Corporation Counsel against council members to suppress dissent and accountability.
• [40:13] Sam contrasts Mayor Victorino with past leaders, appreciating his independence and lack of financial motives, comparing him favorably to figures like Michael Bloomberg.
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• [41:21] The hope is expressed that Victorino’s administration will revive important but previously stalled legislation to fix loopholes in Maui’s land development and permitting processes.
• [42:33] Sam explains how developers exploit regulatory gaps, using falsified documents to circumvent proper public scrutiny, especially for shoreline property developments.
• [44:33] He stresses the need for this stalled legislation, originally drafted in 2011 but killed by political maneuvering, to be revived and supported by the current administration.
• [45:14] Sam concludes this section by emphasizing that government’s role is to set standards and frameworks, then allow the private sector to act within those boundaries to address issues like housing.

1. 1. 1. 1. 
         2. [45:14 → 54:08] Government Dysfunction, Corruption, and Community Impact

• [45:49] Sam criticizes the lack of clear and organized standards in Maui County’s development process, which opens doors to corruption and unchecked discretion by directors.
• [47:27] He mentions recent attempts by Planning Department to push through new rules without adequate scrutiny, increasing director discretion, which he opposes.
• [48:01] Sam highlights a 2016 charter amendment empowering the County Council to get independent legal opinions, bypassing Corporation Counsel, which has been blocked in practice.
• [48:42] He reveals ongoing federal lawsuits naming Corporation Counsel and the Mayor personally for alleged permit violations and document falsifications, describing this as racketeering.
• [49:19] Sam praises community watchdogs like Chris Salem and himself for continuing to expose corruption despite the challenges.
• [50:00] Drawing historical parallels, Sam references Watergate-era prosecutions of government lawyers who falsified documents, arguing that similar accountability is needed locally.
• [51:12] He condemns the election cycle’s emphasis on popularity and catchphrases over substantive issues, which empowers charismatic but uninformed politicians.
• [51:52] Sam criticizes “fake progressive” organizations that run negative ads against other candidates, describing this as an extension of the same toxic activist behaviors that avoid accountability.
• [53:01] He again references the failure of grassroots organizations like Shaka and the Maui Pono Network, which were co-opted into PACs controlled by a few individuals, diluting their grassroots power.
• [54:08] Despite criticism of these organizations, Sam affirms his respect for many individuals backed by them and hopes new council members will show integrity and independent vision.

1. 1. 1. 1. [54:39 → 56:22] Upcoming Vaccine Hearing and Closing Remarks

• [54:39] Sam announces a public hearing on December 14 at the Wailuku State Building for proposed vaccine mandate rule changes in Hawaii schools, urging community members to attend and assert their rights to informed consent.
• [55:21] He explains the deregulation of vaccine manufacturers under Reagan, likening it to the nuclear industry’s immunity, highlighting the lack of liability in vaccine-related harms.
• [56:22] The show wraps up with Jason Schwartz thanking Sam Small for joining and inviting listeners to follow Maui Causes on KAKU and online.

1. 1. 1. Key Insights

• Community Activism and Accountability: Sam Small emphasizes the importance of accountability in activism, critiquing local movements that avoid responsibility and manipulate narratives.
• Government and Regulatory Failures: Maui County suffers from systemic governance issues, including lack of council investigations, corruption, and opaque permitting processes exploited by developers.
• Hope for Political Change: Despite past disappointments, there is cautious optimism about new political leadership fostering transparency and reform.
• Legal and Ethical Concerns: Ongoing lawsuits and allegations expose deep conflicts of interest within Maui’s government legal counsel and planning departments.
• Public Health and Civil Rights: The discussion on vaccine mandates highlights concerns over public consent, government overreach, and pharmaceutical industry protections.
• Media and Messaging: Sam’s background in media underscores the power of strategic communication in shaping social movements and public opinion.

1. 1. 1. Conclusion

This episode of The Neutral Zone presents a detailed examination of Maui’s local political, social, and health-related challenges through the lens of Sam Small’s extensive activism experience. It critically addresses issues of governance, accountability, grassroots movement dynamics, and public health policy, combining personal narrative with broader systemic critique. The conversation aims to inform and galvanize community engagement for a more transparent and responsive Maui County.

00:00

kaku 88.5 sm Kahului now the voice of Maui good morning Aloha it’s Monday at 11:00 so it is the neutral zone I’m Jason Schwartz your host the neutral zone with me Jason Schwartz would like to thank NaKaOi motors Maui car rentals for their support located at 181 dairy Road across from the fire station in Kailua they’ve served the Maui community for more than 30 years with services in used cars and automobile rentals find them online at Maui car rentals net or at 877 3300 the neutral zone has heard Monday is live at

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00:44

11:00 a.m. and again on Saturdays at 7 a.m. on kak u 88.5 FM good morning everyone how are you we are just starting our show and our guest is snuggling into the seat perfect timing I have guests with us that many of you know I hope by heart Sam small is the host director producer chief cook bottle washer for Maui causes and is also a major advocate for the people of Maui hi know welcome to our show Sam I am so happy to be here I’m so happy to have you you know you’re so busy you have enough volume it should be

01:32

over there maybe a little crackle which one should be this one is it looks like it’s on if it’s not well sweet I just needed more game uh-huh hello now we are in radio and radio land wow that’s fabulous you’re a TV guy but radio land I started in radio actually that’s just sure that’s what I was avoiding all my college classes by being in the radio station and so I ended up in in speech communications because they gave me college credit for the time that I was spending at the campus radio

02:06

station oh that’s a good thing and so it was just a perfect vehicle for me what did you do did you do music or talk or what were you doing then um we did music yeah I was a DJ I was actually programming music in the cafeteria in my high school Wow started way early in in media our Vice prison our vice-principal didn’t know how to control the morning announcement system and so he asked me to run the morning announced no good him I was his engineer and I was a geek you know a media hardware geek I was you

02:47

know I was the projector guy I gave the slideshows when you know in class if there was a see if there was a movie to play I was the guy who came into the projector and played the movies Wow so you got credit for high school at college no no I’m ice you know so I started at this stuff you know at a young age and I was inspired by my grandfather my grandfather was part of the Socialist Movement in New York City with the triangle you know a Shirtwaist Fire and the International woman’s garment

03:18

workers union and so he was a part of that whole that whole Socialist Movement and a community really you know looking to establish that real benefits ongoing benefits for people the citizens you know and as a really you know coming out of the whole trust mentality in in you know and the and the antitrust mentality of when you know Rockefeller and warehouser end and the cotton industry you know had taken over the nation oh boy you know and we’re still feeling the results of that today that’s when

03:57

that’s when they took hemp out of out of the mix so the mix they took hemp out of our lives yeah you know and so my grandfather was part of the community activism to you know protect the people from these you know exploitative trust type yeah you know they had too much control why you have followed his verse that was inspired you know it’s in looking back you know I sit you know sitting and talking with my mom explaining to my mom why I do all this stuff before she passed you know we had long conversations about

04:33

you know why you know she totally understood why I do Maui causes and and you know why we you know would put so much energy into you know looking for solutions to heal the you know heal the system fix the system well I you are a champion I mean I know that it here in Maui you say the hard stuff you say this stuff that someone’s doing something you hold them to task well it’s it’s accountability you know it and accountability is is really you know it’s really the thing because what I’m

05:14

what I’m seeing is really interesting what I’m seeing I hadn’t expected to talk about this I want to get into a couple things there’s some testimony that that folks have an opportunity to give this week about informed consent the state is engaged in the Department of Health is engaged in public hearings over the new vaccine the vaccine mandatory vaccine requirements that are being prescribed they’re being suggested by the federal government and accepted with no discussion by the Department of

05:56

Health well that’s hard for me to even believe it’s it’s it’s astounding the public has absolutely no input into what into no decision-making power whatsoever the power lies directly with the Department of Health and they have the opportunity to simply the federal government makes their recommendations based on all of their panels and all of their their whole you know influence corporate influence system you know the Center for Disease Studies itself owns the patents for many of the vaccines

06:33

and and so they they are driving an entire process and here every state has to do their thing and accept their own rules and here in Hawaii the Department of Health has been empowered to make that decision on behalf of the entire state with no input other than the people that work at the Department of Health I’m sure that Lauren pang is there yes as he opened his he’s like you know people need you people have the right to inform to consent that’s you know the response that you know he’s like yeah

07:09

this is why is that I can’t even imagine there would be any question about that isn’t there’s no one here that’s stepping up I guess you’re stepping up well no there is there and and and I have to plug in my computer yeah you just you’re like to bring that up but what I what I and we’ll get to it to all that so I was teasing all of that we’ll get to it as soon as I can you get at a break you’re gonna give me a chance to get my computer set up but in the meantime I want if I don’t see our

07:43

little monitor here but my glasses good in them in the meantime we started to talk about this this phenomenon that that I’ve seeing in the activist community it’s a bizarre thing okay I call them the Donald Rumsfeld activists who that’s a heavy label because it’s a heavy thing what I’ve experienced on the part of a number of different people in the community who do stuff you know who have you know different organizations and whatnot and and have a voice in influencing certain issues in the

08:32

community be a political or social activism and what that’s about Donald Rumsfeld after 9/11 went on in a television interview I don’t remember where it was said the American public wants us they don’t want to know the specifics they don’t want it rubbed in their face but the American public wants to know that we are you know torturing people that we’re lying they and and it’s okay if we torture people and lie and manipulate the system in every way that we can because we’re doing it for you

09:25

and and that the the and and and I’m the guy I’m enough of a martyr to be willing to accept that responsibility that’s what he said that’s what he said well I’d the martyr part I don’t think he I don’t think he cop to being to the martyr that’s my label that I’m putting on him okay all right because what it what it what he was taking responsibility for all that I’m not ending it right there I’m you know I’m taking really you know you can sleep well at night because I’m doing dirty

09:59

stuff for you for your benefit to to move forward our cause our cause you know the American whatever I’m protecting you and and there are folks in our community who do apply that same mindset to the political activism that they’re engaged with here locally so any means to the end and what that opens the door for is for this particular pathology it’s a psychological pathology it’s a mindset it’s a form of narcissism actually and you know there’s this absolute refusal to accept personal

10:49

responsibility for anything that’s gone south anything that hasn’t worked out in the process you know if you were engaged in a process some things work some things don’t work the things that don’t work however never their fault never ever their fault and they will and they they the the the practice the ongoing practice is when they talk about what went on they rewrite history they reframe everything in a way that shields them from any accountability that’s why we’re talking about this

11:25

because it’s about the accountability they shield themselves from any accountability and they will reframe stuff to say oh what we never you know really intended you know to do that you know whatever it is that they’re recharacterizing they’re reframing they’re they’re telling stories in their head that they themselves believe and and they reframe that history in a way that protects them and then if new people you know get engaged because they burn people out people walk you know

11:59

eventually people walk away from them because ultimately they see this conflict I don’t want to compare it to Trump it just sounds like like what’s going on at a national level they’re a totally different ideology they’re adopting the same what do we call technique it’s not even it’s a set of behaviors yes it’s it’s a set of behaviors yeah let’s say and then they tell half-truths so the people keep going and coming through and going and you know people come in and they tell

12:29

them half-truths and so the new people never get the full story you know and and so they and their charismatic so there’s a there’s you know they’re able to move you know some stuff forward by their charisma but part of what part of the the the the whole that’s their the problem is that because they they’re basically you know that they’re in this delusion that this this self you know the they’re in a bubble you know they’re in there in their own bubble and they believe you know they they reframe this

13:14

history and they convince themselves that that’s the true history you know when it’s not but they’ve convinced themselves so for them everything’s okay and they’re totally justified they sleep at night you know they’re totally justified in doing what they and obviously we’re not getting into specifics here but do you want to I you know you think that it’s important that we should are just to have people be aware of more scrutiny of all the things they’re getting involved with well it’s

13:50

yeah you know I’ve been Manan a challenge you know I was involved in you know local politics in 2014 with the shaka movement right and there was a transition that took place after the election with regard to control of the shaka movement and that’s not a publicly known process what went on there is not widely known and I do believe that the community deserves an understanding of what took place after 2014 and after we we as a community you know truly as a community we manifested a miracle here

14:34

in Maui you know and there was a tremendous amount of value that that that was generated with that community energy and I was a big part of that I was the media director for the shaka movement you know and I was absolutely proud you know to be and joyful to be able to go up against Monsanto you know when when there was this great moment when the KITV news covered the first media event that Monsanto that that that AM be staged we as a community delivered our signatures we had an event on the lawn

15:27

in front of the County Building and wheat and we delivered our first round of signatures to be able to for the first time in history get a ballot a public initiative like California’s propositions we got a proposition on the ballot here in Maui County for the first time in history it had been tried before nobody ever got enough signatures so now we were on the path to having enough signatures right and so Monsanto staged an event on the lawn the next day and they had everybody in you know t-shirts they were all

16:02

wearing you know different colored t-shirts of I forget whether his a and B or Monsanto directly and so kitv covered their event they didn’t cover our event they could the next day that covered Monsanto’s event and and the line that she came up with the newscaster she says the big dogs in in marketing are in public relations the big dogs in public relations are out in Maui County because here’s Monsanto staging this event you know in reaction to yeah but that’s how they that’s how they opened the story

16:45

the big dogs in public relations are out and I’m at this point I am the media director for the shaka movement I’ve been empowered by the entire community organization the people that created the you know Bruce Douglas Joe marsala Satya Douglas that that that hub I was the fourth person who got involved in the shaka movement once we once they had long media our I you know because and and you know somebody had to pay attention to what the messaging was and that’s what I do right you know it’s a history and

17:18

background it’s you know it’s what I’ve done you know I I mean I did it for Prudential Financial for eight years I was the director producer director and editor of all of their national television commercials based on on interviews that I conducted with real people and I would craft those into into 30-second commercial national television commercials so I’m well practiced in in honing down that message and bringing it down to its essence that it can communicate through mass media to the

17:50

public I’ve seen tremendous results from different things you’ve done banks and and you know it’s it’s my joy to be able to do it and what joy you know to be able to do it you know in that setting when when she said that when she said the big dogs are out I just I just i sat back and I smiled and I said because I was the big on our side of the equation I was the public relations arms I was the public relations company my company small wonder video services was the production arm being paid you know

18:35

by the shaka movement to produce a tremendous amount of content and all of that content people can still see to this day at vote yes maui dot-com that all of everything that we ask maui dot-com ok everything that we did dear excuse me for seeming distracted no no I can’t he’s got to take my him and this monitor up above is off I’m just wanna make sure what 1119 oh we’re good okay we got another eight minutes before we have some station stuff okay so that was 2014 and you’ve been well directly after 2014

19:08

after the the November election oh boy you know we were also burnt out to have to you know I mean it was a shock that we won you know I Monsanto spent over 12 million dollars and I think we raised and spent like 86 you know and like and and and and a chunk of that I think I think I burned for like 18 months of work of my time full-time way more than full time and all of my equipment and and freelancers helping and stuff I think they paid me thirty six thousand dollars I earned $36,000 worth four times that

19:52

sure you know the the value that the the chaka organization has shocked a movement received from myself in small wonder video services which was the most that anybody made you know but I’m providing professional services I appreciate that you know and hey I got to make a living right I’m not retired I’m not rich I understand it you know I so you were you were giving more than 24/7 Oh God – it was easier for everything we all got it and and all of us got sick all of us got hurt I actually lost I had bronchitis and you

20:34

know I have a history of I’ve had I had had three neck operations disc fusion discs removed from my neck and because I was working you know these insane hours doing the Shaka movement I had bronchitis and and I didn’t tend to myself well enough and I look quite literally coughed myself into a additional damage done to a nerve in my neck and I lost you know a significant portion of the use of my left hand and that happened like right you know at the end of that political campaign and I ended up in surgery on December 12th one

21:13

to two to a my fourth neck operation I coughed my way into that that trouble and that was December 12th on December 23rd I got a letter from Beth sabot of the shock a movement who had been president you know we had we had you know Joe Bruce and Sasha had had you know created this kernel I jumped on board other people came and followed in and we built a community based organization a you know a real grassroots thing but we needed a structure you know and and and a couple of people step forward mark Sheehan was

21:55

already involved we were able to tap him as one of the five citizens and that whole thing needed a you know corporate structure you know somebody to file the papers and and handle the the bank accounts and stuff who is that mark Beth sabot so became the president and by the way we’re here on kak you with Sam small I’m Jason Schwartz on the neutral zone go ahead Sam and so I got this letter from December 23rd I think it was ten days like after this spinal cord surgery I got a letter that

22:33

informed me that the prior just prior to the November election that the shock aboard which had been a silent board we were running you know Joe Bruce Sasha and myself we you know in terms of certainly the media there were other things going on but in in terms of the messaging and what we were communicating to the public and the strategy of the entire campaign we were running the campaign they were running the back office I get it you know I get this letter that it performs me that as in November the chaka board has decided

23:14

to take it upon themselves to empower themselves to now be active participants in the organization and that the committees that had been engaged and I was the chairperson of that communal committee of the media production and media content and production I was there production content committee and that all committees were dissolved and that the chair people of those committees were informed of this long ago at the time and and that they were going to you know pursue the legal stuff only and we

23:59

weren’t going to do you know any any of the public education stuff that I was doing as we had a shoujo Marcella and I had a show here on a Kaku television a weekly television show that shaka shaka movement and we were educating the community on all these issues and that community that community education process was supposed to that was the agreement that that the community education initiative would continue after the election and they chose to go a different path that’s the kindest words that i’ve been able to find in it

24:37

but and I continued on doing that that’s when I created now he causes and they didn’t want any of the it was bizarre to me because they didn’t want any of the assets that we had created in creating the shaka movement you know they they were you know I got instructions to shut down the Facebook page you know and it’s like well that’s pretty strange it was nuts and and and and I thought that was the beginning of the movement after getting a win in the election you think that’s when you start to really reach

25:11

out into the community further we were supposed to gear that up but that was too complicated and apparently they didn’t want to work with me which is fine they don’t you know it’s like okay I know I they they pushed everybody out they pushed Joe Marshawn out they pushed Bruce and such a Douglass out and that pushed me out as well we were all homeless we were all cast aside and they took that organization and essentially turned it into their own private hobby you know and and and have and have done

25:43

what they wanted to do with the shaka movement the thing that we all created as a community you know all of these others really know continuity between then and now that’s correct what we’re talking about is correct that is that the name Jacques there it’s like the Beatles with all kinds of different people than the ones we know yeah it’s it’s it’s it is not today’s Shaka movement is absolutely not the same organization that won the campaign here on Maui and yet they have

26:16

the nerve to take root 2 take credit for it and are they do they have any kind of public image now that we there’s you know the Shaka movement is still persisting and that’s also here and hey and that’s also the safe the the Shaka action fund for the environment so Marc sheehan’s entire political 5oc for super PAC I created that I turned all of the you know we needed we were looking to build that and continue that on you know as part of the Shaka movement and when I was asked you know when I was shut out

26:53

of the Shaka movement I was asked to give them you know those asked those assets they wanted and I gave it to them we’re gonna take a break here for a few minutes and then we’ll come back give you a chance to set up computer yeah cuz let’s go back we’ll talk about that thank you for giving us will pick that subject though it’s a you know it’s so different to be living with this deception because it’s affected me personally and I see it affecting the community in lots of lot

27:25

so we’ll get to that when we get back let me get to the the neutral zone with me Jason Schwartz would like to thank Naoko motors Maui car rentals for their support located at 181 dairy Road across from the fire station in Kailua they’ve served the Maui community for more than 30 years with services and used cars and automobile rentals find them online at Maui car rentals dotnet or at 877 3300 the neutral zone has heard Monday’s live at 11 a.m. and again on Saturdays at 7 a.m. on kak u 88.5 FM

28:02

I’m flutter tow barge and I’m Tom black for mud Regas please join us on Monday night December 10th at the historic Yale theater for a free family-friendly one night only oh no Christmas celebration the Malians stage program begins at 6:30 with doors opening at 6:15 and will consist of Christmas songs performed by 9 Madrid on a reading of Truman Capote’s of Christmas memory performed by Paul James Brown followed by rich Sneiderman with his outstanding presentation of the Dylan Thomas poem a child’s Christmas in

28:32

Wales before the show the Friends of the children’s Justice Center will be collecting unwrapped Christmas toys for older children who have been victims of abuse your unwrapped toy donations gratefully accepted but not required for admission to the Yale theatre a Monday night December 10th doors open 6:15 open seating no tickets or reservations required produced by the Maui Breakfast Club and Tom Blackburn Rodriguez & Associates [Music] Saturday night at 8:00 and Sunday night at 9:00 on kak you 88.5 FM we experience

29:07

dead air not that kind of dead air we’re talking Grateful Dead Grateful Dead music for an entire hour Saturday night at 8:00 and Sunday night at 9:00 with me Cory Daniels on kak u 88.5 FM hi I’m Vince Bodie co-host at the biscuits and gravy show kku as a listener-supported station this means that all of the great programs you hear like mime are supported by you as well as our underwriters if you would like to help keep the voice of the Maui talking loud and clear go to kak UF m dot org slash donate today and give and

29:45

don’t miss the biscuits and gravy show wednesdays at 11 a.m. on 88.5 FM the voice of gravy well here we are we’re back on the neutral zone with Sam small Sam is the chief cook and bottle washer and everything from Maui causes and we were talking about the post-2014 I don’t want to call it conditioned direction but what was a transition transition of the shaka movement and all it came on and then there was another election in the middle and then there was 2018 and we got a real shift perceived shift in

30:28

the mental attitude i guess the direction of the people on maui county council would that be what you see i’m hopeful that that’s the case and i oh and and i am also very hopeful that it extends into the mayor’s office I have great anticipation of this afternoon at 4 o’clock Mike Victorino is going to announce the his choices for directors and I think that that will show a tremendous indication on the part of the administration what direction they’re going to go in the county council

31:18

members you know we got yeah there’s there’s consolidated well you know consolidate it’s the wrong word there there is a majority now of council members five council members that seem to have a an open mind and a willingness to facilitate change in the existing system and they are and what can they do with that attitude is yet to be seen exactly okay so how do you take that and lots of fees they don’t you know in my experience of the council members is that they don’t communicate much with

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each other historically historically and I don’t know that they’re that they’re doing much of it now that even though the new the new folks that are coming on there they’re all it seems creating their own organizations and their own energy around their chair their seat on the council and there’s not a lot of coordination now Kelly King actually asked for that she put out a call and said you know we had her on the Maui causes show and I’ve posted that sub clip from that show on Maui causes of of

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Kelly King asking the council members please don’t make any any front door deals do not be discussing upfront who is going to be the chair the council chair let’s please all come in on January 2nd with a completely clean slate no preconceived a campaign for all kinds of issues that are important to them in the community but then the question is so now what are you going to do with it well there’s lots of speculation as to who would go – what chair positions you know when it comes down to how does the council divvy

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up its power you know first there’s the chairperson and the chairperson you know is really supposed to be a facilitator of Robert’s Rules of Order and the chairperson it’s not a president you know it’s this is not a corporation and you’re not the president of the County Council so your personal agenda is not supposed to be involved with your chair position as the chair position you know your job is to facilitate through council services what the different committees need you got it

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you’re a manager and it’s not supposed to be politically driven well you know just like Joe Marshall let’s say and Bruce and whoever drafted the Shaka thing those there any kind of things that are being created I don’t know I haven’t spoken to any of the council people about things that they think they can create that would make a shift well I don’t you know I’ve given I’ve had a lot of conversations with some of the council members and and some of the new council members has historically and

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I’ve downloaded to them as much of what my understanding of some of this is and the amazing assets that we have in this community that have been buried over the years you know we’ve we’ve had people in our community who who have the knowledge and understanding of for instance how public works as a department is supposed to work how the rest of the civilized world runs their municipalities there are standards and practices there are best practices on how a municipality is supposed to conduct itself as an

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organization as a business you know this is an 800 million dollar business Maui County and it needs to be managed in an appropriate way and we’re not currently we haven’t been in forever and that’s totally evidenced in the the count in the council that the the our charter gives the council the County Council the power to launch an investigation into any issue that comes before the county they have never once in the history of Maui County initiated an investigation and this goes back to

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where we started accountability there is no accountability in the county of Maui administration is it going to be any better with the council approving directors I don’t know I don’t know if the County Council has enough knowledge of who’s there and what these people are I mean I want to agree with you and that’s why I’ve been focusing that’s why I’ve been focusing on educating Mike Victorino as much as I can okay have you spoken to him after the election I think they have okay I have and I’ve tried and

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like I say with great anticipation will we see this afternoon yeah of who his directors are because I think that will tell us a lot you know if if he carries over some of the people that have been there in public works in corporation council in planning if some if those people are carried over then you know we got some issues but by all indications you know there’s there appears to be a willingness to do to make the hard decisions and hard choices to solve these ongoing really deep-seated issues in Maui County you

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know we’re and and it goes you know for instance the office of court counsel so you know it’s like the injection wells injection wells are a great example of it you know Paloma Drive is a great example of it those are the bad decisions that were made by county directors and and the the they ended up in lawsuits and rather than acknowledge the bad decision because there isn’t zero accountability here in Maui County Corporation Counsel takes it upon themselves to defend the faulty decisions and so we end up

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spending millions of dollars in court and losing and this practice has been going on for decades right and and and I truly believe that Mike understands this he’s he’s he has as a council member I believe that he has received the same kind of intimidation that all the other council members receive from corporation Council where they’re they’re pulled aside and they’re told that if you speak up on issues that cause the county that that undermine our defense of the county and cause us to lose if you

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speed is something that cause that weakens our position that will cause the county money more money and we’re gonna hold you responsible for that money we’re not gonna back you if you don’t do what we say we’re not gonna defend you in court we’re gonna defend the directors who make faulty decisions but if you councilmembers speak out about it we’re not going to defend you and we’re going to hold you responsible for the additional costs and that is reason for dismissal under the Charter so they’re

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really they were threatening so we’re hoping to see some change all of that can go away if so if Mike is who Mike seems to be if he is that guy who wants you know really what’s right for Maui County and he doesn’t you know hey thank God gonna look at his son I mean he raised he raised a great son his you know and the family has you know they have no financial they’re not worried for about their finances now you know so you know I that I lived in New York City for many years and we had a billionaire Mike

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Bloomberg was the mayor of New York City and I didn’t like everything that he did but I really appreciated that I knew that that guy could not be bought he didn’t need that you know well how come we have another guy that can’t be bought sitting in Washington they I just saw 62% of Trump staff has been there’s been a turnover percent what kind of craziness oh that’s that stay well you know this is the pathology this he’s a guy that you’d think couldn’t be bought what’s the digit the brain isn’t

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connected there Bloomberg is still like well that’s the difference it’s that this is the difference because the ones that come to that place because of their charisma and narcissism do a shitty job because they believe their own BS and they don’t do their homework and they don’t really care because they don’t have empathy that’s one of the things that a narcissist lacks is empathy Mike Bloomberg wasn’t that well it’s not that way and I believe that Mike Victorino is not that way right so

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that’s a good thing that’s a good thing that’s really encouraging then if we have because there’s legislation that was legislation that was delivered to that with it so the solutions are in hand there’s legislation that was written in 2011 and given to the infrastructure given to Ellie Cochran’s office was engaged in in in in writing legislation to solve a lot of the loopholes that are in our land development system these chasms of permitting process where you know planning and and public works don’t

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communicate with one another and a developer is able to work through the system and fall through the cracks if you know how you can fall through the cracks and if you commit fraud you can easily fall through the cracks because you can get yourself an SMA minor permit instead of an SMA major permit because you paid a civil engineer enough money to illegally put his stamp on falsified numbers and then you go under the radar on a project that should have public scrutiny on a project that should have conditions put on it to

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protect the shoreline and often these are six 14 million dollar shoreline homes you know in this that whole range of three lot or less these are small large money small projects so is that what I’m saying here we now have a new council with a new leaning direction are there any I hope that they have well I guess with each of them are going to be somehow introducing something to help make that system better I don’t know I’m hoping that they’re on a whole slew of these issues I’m actually hoping that

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mike is the source of the new legislation that he will be able to come forward and and draw on this tremendous amount of resources that that have been developed by by a guy on the west side Chris Salem has done a phenomenal phenomenal work on behalf of the county for decades and submitted you know help right this this legislation that was create that was offered to the council in 2011 and killed it was it was it was taken away from infrastructure and le let it go without a peep and it was given to Don couch and Don couch simply

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said well corporation council this is legislation that was already vetted by council services and in fact council services went out of their way to say that this is excellently written legislation council services said this is excellently written legislation but spat Wong simply told Don couch that it’s not legal and Don couch killed it I see and so those solutions still exist and I’m hoping I’m hoping I’m hoping I’m hoping that that legislation comes back to the council through the mayor’s

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office this time not from a council member I got you and and that that can be the beginning of bringing Maui County into a modern municipality with appropriate levels of transparency and the thing that we’ve never ever ever ever had before accountability well we shall see here coming up soon what I I’d like to bring up I’m it’s sort of my passion it may sound funny the government does government I think of it as like electricians and plumbers there’s a system here and it needs to be working

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like the rest of the world and functioning so we have all these things but many of our solutions a lot of people think the government is going to solve the housing problem the government is going to solve these problem what in fact the government doesn’t have resources to be addressing that the government has a responsibility to get set things up in an appropriate way so the CEO to decide what can seed what can be appropriately seeded and then get out of the way well the get out of the way part I get

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but I need the I think the public needs to understand more it does all of these that’s my god that’s why we do this Jason I mean you do it I do it because we know that I want understand there are people in our community that a private sector that could move on these you know that they could move on the housing thing these guys on the land this people move the land one of the points about one of the problems that needs to be solved and the solutions exist and and it impacts what you’re talking about

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directly is that this county has no organized standards okay public were if a developer comes forward and wants to do something in Maui County they come and they think you know what do we have to do what terms and conditions do your and the answer here is well let’s see what you got and then we’ll figure something out I see and the reason there’s a reason for that because that’s the open door to corruption I was gonna say that’s if there are no standards and nowhere to aim for everything has to be personally

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everything is a discretion of the director and and planning you know is minoo came forward with new rules they’re trying to slam through new rules before the end of this administration and you know that for planning and it’s completely inappropriate you know as a process it’s completely inappropriate there’s not enough scrutiny being made to it and too many of the things that they are asking for increase the discretion of the director and that’s wrong there’s other things that are that

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are that have solutions there are that are readily available to it in 2016 we voted for a charter amendment to empower the County Council to have a legal opinion that does not come from Pat Wong that does not come from corporation counsel we as citizens all voted for that and it in two years corporation council has not allowed it to happen the County Council has not been able to get a legal opinion that does not come from corporation council even though we were we voted in that even though we voted in

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that into place they have been able to stifle that that that that process and not only corporation council very few people know Corporation Council and the mayor are all being sued personally in federal court they’re all named as individuals in federal court on these infrastructure manipulations on permit violations on you know even to the extent of of what I see as I mean it I look at the documents I’ve looked at a you know tremendous amount of time goes into reading these documents I’ve looked

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at these documents I’ve read this stuff these people have and you factored false public documents that is like a federal fence that’s like a felony that’s what you know it it there is there is this level of racketeering that is taking place here that is you know maybe that’s what goes on at the federal level maybe that’s what goes on in in other communities here as well but here in Maui we got this we got the benefit of having this really really small community and you can hide and people like Kris Salem are

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not going away people like myself we’re not going away we have you know we’ve got the documents you know we can show all of this stuff and there is this massive conflict you know if there are there are the whole slew of issues important issues that in executive session in the Maui Council they absolutely there is absolutely no place for Pat Wong to be in that room in those discussions whatsoever because he’s already conflicted because he’s named in federal lawsuits for doing that stuff

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that’s where people went to jail in Watergate they that lawyers went to jail the lawyers who worked for the federal government who paid themselves they took their wages and what they were engaged in was defending themselves in court for what they had done for faulty for faulty documents that they had filed and those are the people that went to jail so we’re gonna hear some of this stuff after the change in regime I imagine we’ll see some of it some of it I mean you know there’s ways that a lot of it

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you know can can can go away can a lot of it can be fixed like really simply to really simply – and we’ll see you know this afternoon who the P I’m so happy to know there are people like you and Kris Salem and others who are out there really scrutinizing what’s going on because as public I don’t think that we have real any clue no people don’t they want you know all of the wealthy the consultants that came in to Maui County for this election cycle they all towed told all of the candidates avoid issues

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just find yourself a couple of catchphrases and and stay with those catchphrases let it be a popularity contest and that turns my stomach of course it’s because it’s that popularity contest that allows candidates who thrive in this in in in is in this charismatic ill-informed place who don’t do their homework who do rewrite history it empowers those people to to do their thing and how are you ever going to get to the result that we want that we really deserve here in Maui County by lying the you know it’s

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extraordinary to me the only organizations in this past election cycle that went negative in their advertising that attacked other candidates with the progressive organizations I call them the fake progressive organizations those are the those are the the the Donald Rumsfeld activists they rewrite history they reframe it and make it okay for a progressive organization to be running negative advertisements about another candidate nobody else Indyk and they were in the and in this local election process did that other than the Center

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for Food Safety safe with with Sheehan and and and and and and and and and even you know I mean there’s a whole story and the pono Network I had to walk away from creating the pono Network because they did the same thing as as as was done with Shaka maybe they were inspired but you know we created an organization telling the community that we were going to build something like the Farmers Union that’s a membership organization that’s the mistake that we made back in Chaka in the beginning we allow Beth Sava to

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write the bylaws and it didn’t become a membership organization in the Farmers Union the membership once a year has the opportunity the board is dissolved the board loses complete power the the the authority goes fully over to the members and the members establish a new board well that doesn’t take place with Shaka you know and and the Maui pono Network ended up in the same place because they Bruce Douglas and Paul deloria took that organization and registered it as a standard pack a political action

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committee and we told the community that it was going to be a grassroots membership organization and it’s not so they took the same thing they took this community energy and they consolidated it into something that only they have control over well let me say because I think it’s important for me to say no matter what they did we have the people that they backed I liked a lot of the people that they backed and I don’t think that any of the people that are candidates or have taken the seats should feel many

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people who want to bunch them all together because they were under a pono or someone all endorsed them they’re all individuals and I hope that they each establish their own personal integrity and direction well that’s you know it’s it’s it’s finding that level of integrity that’s the that’s the you know that’s really the challenge well I’m not three minutes no no we’ve got to move on to the vaccines look folks on Friday this week December 14th from 2 to 4 p.m.

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at the Wailuku State Building 54 South High Street this is at the Department of Health they are having hearings on proposed rule changes to include new vaccine requirements area that mandate vaccines for Hawaii school attending children’s Friday at Friday at from 2:00 to 4:00 p.m. we need to crowd those rooms we need to overpower their process with our process and assert your rights for informed consent they are the you know the the federal vaccination program was deregulated by Ronald Reagan the

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same way as the nuclear industry was deregulated and the people who manufacture biologics vaccines are not pharmaceutical pharmaceuticals vaccines are biologics they’re in a unique category and the companies that manufacture and distribute biologics were exempted by Ronald Reagan from any liability it’s the same thing with the nuclear industry if if they actually blow the place up we can’t hold them responsible same thing with vaccines they can push and force vaccines on your kid do harm to your kid

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and no one is held with spines hearing that loudly so Friday 54 high street that’s at the corner there two to four and one lucre two to four department self thank you for being with our show you know I would like to see you coming back regularly and kind of checking in with us you have your own show but you’re always welcome here thank you Jason your two cents and your three cents are welcome I don’t have a counter so I don’t know how close we are to the last second Michael my you thinks 1156

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and how many seconds well that I do that I don’t know either so we’re going to kind of wrap it up Sam small and Jason Schwartz are here on the neutral zone 88.5 FM you can go to Maui Maui cause this org and look for us on a kaku’s we air Mondays at 7 p.m. and Sundays at 7 p.m. right well thank you all for joining us we hope to see you again here next week or check you out on the net Maui neutral zone calm [Music]