SIR COBALOT, “MIGZ” MIGUEL ELLIOTT

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Published on 11/18/2024 by Jason Schwartz

SIR COBALOT, “MIGZ” MIGUEL ELLIOTT, builder of Cob Structures, made of Clay, Sand & Straw; super example of more reasonable building methods, using nature’s materials, spends an hour speaking to Jason about this powerful building ANSWER after the August 2023 Fire that destroyed the town of Lahaina !!!! .  Migz has built over 300 structures around the world. Cob is one of the oldest ways to build houses and more.        11-18-2024

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Summary & Transcript 

  • [00:00 → 05:47] Introduction to Cob and Miguel’s BackgroundMiguel “Migs” Calot introduces himself and shares his extensive background in cob construction, a traditional natural building technique using earth materials:
    • Cob definition and history:
      • Cob is an Old English word meaning a rounded lump of mass.
      • It is similar to adobe construction (sand, clay, straw).
      • Approximately half of the world’s structures historically and currently use earth as a building material.
      • Cob structures in England have lasted over 700 years, with walls about 18 inches thick, plastered with lime for weather protection.
    • Miguel has been building with cob since 1996 and has constructed over 300 cob structures worldwide including Africa, India, Thailand, South America, Mexico, Italy, and the U.S.
    • Early cob houses have no wooden framework; walls are thick earth, supporting a roof directly. However, building inspectors often prefer wooden frames for roof support.
    • In 2012, he built a fast, low-cost cob house in Argentina using pallets, local clay, plastic bottles, and clothes for insulation—a two-story, 120 sq ft house built in one month that withstood rain and remains in use.
  • [05:47 → 13:37] Cob on Maui and Practical Applications
    • Miguel’s websites:
    • Demonstrated cob’s viability in wet areas like Haiku and Hālo with protection using lime plaster and lime wash to waterproof and color the walls.
    • In 2023, Miguel built a “Cobin”—a small, pallet-framed cob cabin in Hālo with a roof overhang to protect walls from rain.
    • The Cobin dries in about a week and uses lime plaster and lime wash for weatherproofing.
    • The structure is lightweight, retains cool temperatures inside, and is fire-resistant—heated even by fires due to clay turning ceramic-like.
    • Miguel shared examples of large-scale pallet-cob buildings including a 5-classroom school in Florida that survived multiple category 4-5 hurricanes.
    • The three key elements for cob longevity: a solid foundation (“boots”), plaster (“jacket”), and roof (“hat”).
    • Cob buildings are also resistant to termites and mold, especially with saltwater additives.
  • [13:37 → 24:45] Lahaina Fire Recovery and Emergency Housing
    • The 2023 Lahaina wildfire created an urgent need for emergency housing.
    • Miguel built a 9×12 ft mobile Cobin as an alternative to shipping containers for temporary or permanent housing on affected properties.
    • The design includes forklift skids for easy transport and is lighter than solid earth walls due to pallet framing.
    • The Cobin is significantly cooler inside compared to metal shipping containers.
    • Building inspectors and government agencies have shown some openness to these alternative structures due to emergency shelter crisis declarations exempting liability and permits for small emergency cabins.
    • Miguel is encouraging community-building through collaborative cob construction to speed up housing rebuilds, suggesting partnerships with organizations like Habitat for Humanity.
    • The labor-intensive nature of cob building is a challenge but also an opportunity for community engagement and mental health benefits—an approach Miguel calls “Earth therapy.”

 

  • [24:45 → 37:48] Community, Education, and Government Collaboration
    • The Lahaina Strong Facebook group showed strong public support for natural building alternatives.
    • Discussions with local government, FEMA, and state agencies are ongoing but not yet formalized.
    • Miguel envisions a certification workshop model where participants build a livable cob structure and become qualified to build their own homes.
    • He stresses the importance of involving Native Hawaiians and respecting cultural values in the adoption of natural building techniques.
    • Miguel cites examples from Argentina, where a movement called “linga” (communal work parties) has enabled over 500 cob homes to be built with government approval after demonstrating safety and durability.
    • This model allows for flexible building codes emphasizing sound framing and safety rather than prescriptive materials, supporting pallets, cob, adobe, straw bale, hemp, etc., as infill materials.
  • [37:48 → 51:49] Technical Advantages and Cultural Relevance
    • Cob and adobe structures provide:
      • Natural insulation and cooling without electricity.
      • Resistance to fire, termites, mold, and toxins.
      • Use of locally sourced earth materials, reducing environmental footprint and cost.
    • Pallet framing allows for air insulation and easy wiring/plumbing installation.
    • Living roofs with garden beds can keep structures cooler and provide edible plants.
    • The cob method is adaptable, fun, and encourages creative expression with sculptural walls and colorful plasters.
    • Miguel highlights the community-building and therapeutic aspects of cob construction; it fosters social connection and mental well-being by involving people in hands-on creation and collaboration.
  • [51:49 → 56:48] Vision for the Future and Practical Considerations
    • Potential for widespread adoption of cob housing in Maui as a low-cost, durable, and environmentally friendly alternative to conventional construction and shipping containers.
    • Estimated cost for building a Cobin with Miguel’s crew: about $100 per square foot (e.g., a 120 sq ft cobin ~ $12,000).
    • Miguel encourages government recognition and financing support for these structures.
    • He promotes education through workshops and online resources (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook).
    • The goal is to create a network of trained builders and community-driven rebuilding efforts post-disaster.
    • Miguel is actively involved in outreach, including invitations to hold workshops in Native Hawaiian communities such as Moloka‘i.
    • The philosophy behind this movement is summarized in two taglines:
      • “Working with the ʻāina (land) to rebuild Lahaina.”
      • “The clay, the climate, and the culture are calling for cob here on Maui.”
    • Miguel emphasizes the unlimited supply of building materials (earth and discarded pallets) and the advantages of local, natural, and non-toxic construction.

Key Insights and Terms

Term/Concept Explanation
Cob A natural building material made from clay, sand, straw, and earth.
Pallet-framed Cob Using wooden pallets as a framework for cob walls to speed construction and reduce weight.
Lime Plaster & Wash Protective coating applied over cob to waterproof and add aesthetic color.
Cobin Miguel’s term for a small cob cabin, typically pallet-framed and mobile.
Earth Therapy Therapeutic benefit of working with earth materials and community in building homes.
Minga / Linga Communal work party tradition from Argentina to build cob homes together.
Living Roof A roof with a garden bed that helps insulate and cool the structure.

Timeline Table: Key Milestones in Miguel’s Cob Journey

Year Event/Activity
1996 Miguel begins working with cob structures.
2012 Builds fast pallet-cob house in Argentina for a family in need.
Early 2023 Starts building the “Cobin” in Hālo, Maui, demonstrating cob’s viability in wet climates.
2023 Builds a 9×12 ft mobile cob cabin in Lahaina burn zone as emergency housing post-wildfire.
Ongoing Hosts workshops, promotes community building, partners with local and international projects.

Benefits of Cob Construction (As Discussed)

  • Durability: Structures lasting 700+ years, fire and hurricane resistant.
  • Environmental: Uses local, abundant, natural materials; reduces carbon footprint.
  • Cost-effective: Material costs low, labor is main expense but can be community-supported.
  • Thermal performance: Keeps interiors cooler in summer, warmer in winter without electricity.
  • Non-toxic: No chemicals or synthetic materials used, improving indoor air quality.
  • Aesthetic and creative: Allows for artistic expression with sculptural shapes and colors.
  • Community and mental health: Building together fosters connection, healing, and empowerment.
  • Adaptability: Can be built mobile or stationary, single or multi-story, with modern amenities.

Contact and Resources

  • Websites:
  • Social Media:
    • Instagram: @sircalot
    • Facebook: Migs Cobalot / Cob on Maui group
    • YouTube: Migs Cobalot channel
  • Workshops and Certification: Miguel offers hands-on workshops to train people in cob building and certifies builders for safe construction.

Final Thoughts

Miguel “Migs” Elliot presents cob construction as a viable, sustainable, and community-driven solution for housing needs, especially in disaster recovery contexts like Lahaina, Maui. His work demonstrates that using local earth materials combined with recycled pallets can create durable, fire-resistant, affordable, and comfortable homes. The approach not only addresses physical shelter but also promotes social cohesion and mental wellness through collaborative building efforts. Miguel envisions a future where cob and natural building methods are integrated into local codes and rebuilding efforts, supported by education, government acceptance, and community participation, especially involving Native Hawaiians and local residents.

This interview offers a comprehensive introduction to cob construction’s practical applications, cultural relevance, and potential role in resilient housing strategies in Hawaii and beyond.

Transcript

00:00
[Music] good morning everyone aloh high it’s Monday November 18th wow hey hello hi everyone this is Jason Schwarz here at the neutral zone Maui neutral zone.com you can find us up on the web there you can also find us on YouTube at dream Maui and the number one and um I have a really terrific guest today you know many of you on radio are missing the visual part of this and today’s one of those days where you’re going to want to look at the internet afterwards not only to hear the show again but to see

 

00:44
the images of these structors I have Miguel Elliot with me migs is that a nickname you’ve been using that’s right migs my I like nicknames migs is my nickname uhuh migs you have been doing uh building of of structures and many people that hear about this immediately light up they’re like wow uh some of you have ever heard of a cob well uh we’re going to let Miguel give you a picture of what he’s been doing here on Maui okay good let’s have a conversation uh so yeah thanks for

01:24
inviting me in to share the the wonderful world of cob happy to share it um so first of all let’s just jump right into what Cobb is um just to kind of educate you all about that so um the word Cobb um it’s uh similar to Adobe right so most people know what Adobe construction is right so it’s sand clay straw you know um it’s estimated that you know about half of the structures built on the planet um even still are built out of Earth out of clay and so um so what cob is actually an Old English

 

01:59
word means a rounded lump of mass that’s the definition of cob so back in Old England 700 years ago there were whole Villages towns all built out of Cobb the rich people the poor people they all had Cobb homes right and so they would form these round balls together um and then throw them up on the people to the people standing in the wall they’ put it into the wall the walls would be about 18 in thick and then uh it dries in the Sun and then when it dries they do a lime plaster over to protect it from the

 

02:31
water and uh and many of these structures are still being lived in 700 years later right wow yeah yeah so kind of longer than any wood or cement structures so these these structures are really built to last right they’re they um they’re they’re super super durable and so I’ve been uh doing this since the mid 90s really uh since 96 I started um uh down the the path of Cobb and I’ve been pretty much doing it non-stop since since then so i’ I’ve built at least probably now about over

 

03:04
300 structures um out of out of Cobb and all over the world all over the world I’ve done it in Africa I’ve done it in yeah India I’ve done in Thailand South America Central America Mexico Italy all over uhhuh and the United States oh yeah yeah yeah Chic foret those guys yeah I I built an organic nightclub in Chicago called The Butterfly Social Club um yeah built a yoga studio in Chicago yeah I do a lot of workshops too so I I teach people how to use the the local Earth to to build structures and so for so for

 

03:38
many years I was just doing solid Cob Houses and so you know a cob house doesn’t have any wooden framework right so you just pile up the the cob and um the walls would be really thick and then you put the roof right over these thick Earth and walls you know and that’s it’s great it’s a great way to build um it just it takes a lot of material and a lot of people and it takes a lot of time and um you know building inspects don’t really like structures where the roof is sitting you know right on the the the

04:10
Earth and walls you know they like to have some kind of wooden frame to support it so um yeah so back in 2012 I was down in Argentina and a friend of mine had a sister and her three kids and her were sleeping in a tent and uh the rainy season was a month away and they had no money at all and so my friend and I spent a month building his sister um a house um and we just like hey we got to build her a house and as fast as we can cheap we didn’t have much money at all and so we got some pallets we put those upright and uh we

 

04:47
got the local clay put that over the pallets and put plastic bottles and some clothes and the walls for insulation and in a month we had a we had a house uh built for her and she was able to move in and the first night moved in it just pouring pouring rain and um so it was so then I was like oh this is so much faster um to do than a full-on cob or adobe house and I could do this with one other guy and we have a house built in a month for not very much money at all and that was that was 2012 and she’s still living in it i’ I’ve

 

05:19
gotten an update about six months ago and she sent me a picture of the house and it’s doing great you know no no problem at all and the kids actually helped build it and things how big kind of structure so that was small I mean so that was a two story structure it was about it was about 120 square ft or so uhhuh two stor so you can build this to a second story if you want yeah yeah we had a loft big Loft uhhuh and I’ve seen pictures in your book you have um what’s your web address let everyone know I

 

05:47
have two two websites okay so my service for years has been Living Earth structures right livinge structures.com and that that website’s still up and that that goes into all the stuff I was doing you know in California and more International projects uh my current website is cob on Maui you know and cob is 1B Co so cob on maui.com and so that that shows uh you know pictures of the the house that just built in lahina as well as um uh various a lot a lot of structures I’ve been doing in Haiku you

 

06:19
know and it’s good to be able to demonstrate that this is possible in Haiku and Helo because it rains a lot more there you know and so most people wouldn’t think that they could put up clay and sand and straw and it resists Rin what is that that is that the lime plaster it’s the lime plaster yeah so um yeah so like beginning of this year January 1 the first day of this year um I worked on starting to build a little Co I call it a Cobin right so I started building a Cobin in Hau and I just I

 

06:52
worked on I I framed it first got my uprights in I got my pallets in and then I I framed in my windows and then I put in the did the roof you know with a nice overhang and um and then and then so then I was protected from the rain and so there were many days that it would be pouring rain but I was inside putting the cob on the walls and I wasn’t affected by the rain at all and then outside i’ wait for it was a sunny day put the cob on the wall and then it would take about a week for it to dry um

 

07:21
because it’s I’m only putting about an inch of the earth and plaster over the pallets right and then once it’s dry then um then I do my lime plaster and a a lime wash and then that protects it from the water and you can also just for aesthetically uh aesthetic purposes to get whatever color you like um and to help protect it you can also do a regular paint over the lime plaster too you know and most natural Builders don’t do that and you’re kind of breaking some of the rules of natural building because

 

07:51
then you’re kind of you know using you know some chemicals which I usually try to avoid um but it does protect the structure forever and um it is compatible with a lime wash too for the inside I always do a clay plaster like a nice you earn clay plaster and just energetically the vibrations of that feels really nice and the walls is the texture of it nice and smooth and it’s it feels really it’s very comforting and very warm feeling so yeah M so to me that when you talk about lahina I think all of us on Maui know we

 

08:27
had a wildfire last year I call it wild no political commentary fire uh in August of 20123 and L is a special case in that it’s an emergency zone so with construction you know construction is everywhere but in that area thinking to build structures mean if we have all the construction going on and we need more workers when you bring them in you have to have structures yeah so it’s like wait a minute what are we GNA do and not keep bringing in people and and this seems like a never- ending

09:08
problem so this could be really interesting as a solution definitely definitely so like the one that you built in Lina now it’s what maybe how many square feet oh it’s small it’s a tiny house it’s 9 by 12 you know it’s basically an alternative to a shipping container but I made it this small so that it can actually be picked up and moved right so um I built a village in Oakland years ago called cobon wood and so this is the designs that I did and and on that that I’m kind of duplicating

 

09:37
that design for in the Hy and so I I made I made them so they they have a skid you know like a space below for a forklift to pick it up and put it on a trailer and make it mobile if it needs to be so that’s doesn’t have a problem with braking no no no no i’ I’ve had these on trailers driving around the back of my truck for years without any issue at all mhm yeah wow so because of the pallets inside and not being solid it’s lighter uh-huh right exactly that too uhhuh that that too yeah and you

 

10:05
know but it has just enough Earth on the walls so it has some Mass to keep it cool in the summertime you know so that that few inches of Earth that are over the pallets it does keep out the heat so it really helps a lot so people are always amazed at how much cooler the structure in the H is we have a shipping container on the property you go inside that and it’s just hot as an oven it’s just so uncomfortable and you go inside the Cobin and it’s comfortably cool inside yeah yeah you came you came out

 

10:31
there to I went out to see it and I was like wow I want this on the show for everyone right right you on radio you’re going to have to go to konm maui.com and take a look or you can call migs and such also we are very fortunate so when I was out there and looking my first reaction was wow this is great if let’s now say I’m going to roll the thing here now time has gone on and someone who wanted to build on their property but they can’t find a construction team out and available and things are going to

 

11:07
take forever and they don’t particularly want to be in these if they’re fortunate enough to get a place to live and they don’t particularly like the fact they feel like they’re gypsies sort of and rag tag and they like to get back to their property this could be a terrific right yeah exactly thanks for bringing that up so this is actually a a great solution for somebody who wants to have a temporary house while they’re waiting for their main house to be built right and even if later they said hey this

 

11:36
could be our our hopefully if that can actually become yeah or maybe even their permanent residence I mean if it’s yeah so and I’ve been to some of the meetings out there um in lahina some of the community meetings where that question has been asked like hey do I need a permit to build a little tiny house on my property while I’m waiting for my main house to be built and the person facilitating the meeting said no we’re not we’re not going to be regulating that you know so it’s a really good

 

12:03
opportunity now to to demonstrate some good alternative building techniques and also because of the emergency shelter crisis declaration that was passed after the fires um you know the it basically makes the government exempt from any liability associated with the construction and so so people can build small little emergency sleeping cabins um you know without without the permits well someone might wonder whether this is the kind of thing that could collapse on them but no it’s yeah yeah no if if

 

12:37
you look at my website um there’s pictures of the the school I built in Florida um you know it’s five we built five classrooms 320 Square ft each and each one was uh you know framed out of pallets and we put the clay over it and those have already survived three hurricanes now wow strong like category four or five hurricanes like so yeah so they’re they’re definitely built to last if you protect them right kind of the three rules to ensure a cob structure’s longevity is needs a good good pair of

 

13:08
boots a good jacket and a good hat right if it’s got all those three things that the foundation a plaster and a roof there’s no reason why it won’t last forever you know and and it’s great because they and it’s also fire resilient too so a fire just makes the well stronger really it makes it it turns into ceramic right so I I build you know clay ovens all the time time Wood Fired ovens and you know the hotter it gets the more exposed it gets to fire the the stronger it gets wow yeah and I

 

13:37
saw you built kind with a bathtub all kinds of way to heat water it’s exactly I in in Florida I built a restaurant where you have an oven and then we have this big canal with a currant and you can put the pizzas cooked in the oven on a on the water on a boat and it floats on the moat in a big circle and so people can sit around the circle and have a nice communal dining experience instead of sitting at Separate Tables um yeah and I’ve done hot tubs out of the materials very exciting to see and I

 

14:08
think once you see it you can unsee it’s like wait a minute why AR we doing more of these exactly you know I mean I was exposed to this back in 96 um I saw a video it was called building with the Earth right it was by the Cobb Cottage company out of Oregon and really it was put out by the you know the kind of the pioneer of cob Construction in America is a man named to Evans he’s from England he’s from Wales and he came over and he brought this technique of building that they’ve been doing in

 

14:36
Wales for hundreds of years to Oregon and he started doing workshops and and so I was exposed to his work through a video called building with the Earth and that was my first exposure to to cob and so then I I would take this video you know put it in people’s VCRs and say hey check this out isn’t this amazing and um and so yeah once I was exposed to it then I was I call it cob verted and I’ve been doing it since um in my book I list the 50 reasons of why it’s good to cob uh yeah and I was I was actually kned as

 

15:09
Sir calot uh back in 2012 when I declared my dedication to promoting the natural building movement and and I’d say I’ve I’ve pretty much stayed true to my vow yeah and so I’m very I’d say committed to the cob uhhuh well and uh the fact that these structures are so strong and can last so long yeah is uh really great and the fact that they are in in my mind in like a lahina area I can’t imagine why this wouldn’t be um I don’t know how the government works what they’re doing with their money but I

 

15:44
sure know this could be yeah I mean we could yeah Jason I me we could even actually do fullon Adobe structures in Laina because it doesn’t rain very much there so if we had a crew of people making clay bricks we could and there’s so the clay in the high is so good for building too actually most most parts of Maui all the in Haiku and Pia and Helo um in keii it’s it’s it’s all it’s good all over and so we could but especially good in Laina and we could be making bricks we could have hold brick yards

 

16:17
and people can come out and buy a brick for three bucks a brick or something and then you know once you have all the bricks made I’ve built a house in in Thailand I built a house for about $80 in materials and it took us about four hours to put the walls up wow and this was a house for a man his wife and two kids and it’s still there that was over 20 years ago you know and so um you know and the great thing about the Adobe bricks is that of course you know it’s it’s super well insulated because it has

 

16:44
all the mass you have all that natural air conditioning so you don’t need electricity for the air conditioning um you know it’s it’s uh antimicrobial so mold isn’t an issue which you know in the high that’s not an issue but in hiou area it is so but it’s it doesn’t mold termites don’t like it termites don’t really can’t really and once you put your your plaster over it especially it has a little salt water if you can get some salt water from the ocean and add

 

17:10
that to the mix that actually helps to prevent it from termites wow and and also the magnesium in the ocean actually helps us strengthen the cob also and then um yeah and so uh and so you know that my tagline is is working with the local AA to rebuild lahina right so it’s um yeah and it’s and it’s just using all locally sourced building materials too know we we don’t want to be importing cinder blocks from the mainland and you know paying all that money and um you know and it’s and the cinder blocks burn

 

17:41
too you know um you know there was a lot of concrete houses that that burned in the fires wow I don’t know if I even knew that concrete Burns MH yeah yeah yeah it does it crumbled just falls apart you know but actually in in California where I was living you know back in 2018 we had 19 we had the the tubs fire you know the big tubs fire in somoma county and there most of the houses you know in you know kind of the western side of Santa Rosa burned but there was a couple houses out of straw bale straw Bell houses I know the people

 

18:13
who built them and the fire went right up to the porch burnt they burnt the porch and the wood post on the porch but it didn’t burn the house the walls are completely intact you know because of the the the clay plaster the lime you know the fire the straw Bells non-combustible uh you know so it’s uh yeah so so that that’s a pretty good testimony so I think after after a fire like this you know where there’s so much conversation about how the toxicity of these houses that that are burning and

 

18:42
all the remediation that has to happen um to kind of clear out to clean out those sites or toxic sites now you would think that there would be some considerations of oh let’s let’s maybe you know try using other materials other than these toxic um from alah lace wood and um you know the chemicals that are in the insulation and the cement and the paints and like um you know whereas the the structures that I’m building there’s absolutely nothing toxic about toxic about them at all you

 

19:11
know they’re all all natural and uh and so I I think it’d be amazing if we could actually have you know like a neighborhood in Laina that was dedicated to demonstrating some of these good you know Innovative smart building designs and and besides that kind of special imagine if a whole neighborhood of uh people built these while they’re waiting for their right other structures a great model and that’s actually something I wanted to bring up too the um a disadvantage I would say of

 

19:48
these structures is that it’s labor intensive right so it does take labor the biggest cost of the structure of the project is the labor involved so when I was doing this in the I was pretty much doing it by myself I a couple times people came out to help a little bit but um you know if I had a crew of people if I had 10 people working with me it would go up way faster we could probably get the whole thing cobbed in a weekend right so that’s what we were doing in Oakland when I was building a village

 

20:15
there it was amazing how fast we were building these structures and so I would love to partner up with a group like Habitat for Humanity there you go um or some kind of organization you know we could call it hobitat hobitat for Humanity you but um some organization that has you know connections with a volunteer Workforce um that that want to help um even tourists who want to come and and help and um you know uh be involved in some of the rebuilding efforts and basically and if you know have a system in place where if you

 

20:48
participate and help somebody build their house and do that Sweat Equity then you’re guaranteed to have help building your house when when you’re ready right and just kind of have a a that to me could be a really terrific thing thing and also you know because there’s going to be so much building going on a lot of the younger people that are here could learn this kind of a thing through you and really keep doing this for right build more calots right yeah yeah and it’s also there’s there’s

 

21:18
a whole mental health component to it also right so a lot of the people who’ve been you know lost their homes are struggling with you know a lot of mental health issues and and just depression and all the all the struggles that goes with losing your home and losing everything and having to bounce around from hotels and Tents and vans I mean it’s it’s stressful so you know being involved in a process an activity where they’re actually participating and helping to build their own house with

 

21:43
other people you know it can break some of those cycles of alienation a lot of people have and you know and it can be fair they’re very therapeutic and healing so I I actually I call it Earth therapy right Earth therapy because I in the process of working with the Earth it’s a therapeutic modal you know activity and it just feels really good so it’s it’s addressing some of the um some of the mental health issues people might have while building the house so it’s not just building houses it’s also

 

22:11
building community and and um you know building character development and um you know so it it’s all encompassing um and it’s very very you know good for the body and and again I I list this in my my book and I I have the list of 50 reasons of why it’s good to to build on my website ite you know cobon maui.com and also on the The Living Earth structures website well you know you I’m going to read from this list a little bit there are so many good reasons to do this it’s almost it just amazes me I

 

22:45
imagine that have you talked to any government um like FEMA those people I know they take forever an EPA to approve things TW there are solutions that people have had for things that are 20 5 years old and the EPA and they haven’t done approvals on these things right I mean after after disasters there’s always such an abundance of pallets everywhere you know and and here on Maui I drive by and I see piles of pallets everywhere and businesses are trying to you know get rid of them and so I’m

 

23:15
actually doing businesses a favor by taking them right so yeah so we could uh you know yeah so I think I haven’t actually talked to FEMA yet um I’ve been kind of waiting to have the the house in Lina complete which it is it’s finished now you know at least the the sleeping space is complete and so um yeah so now now I’m ready to to start sharing it and I imagine you’re going to have help as people discover what you’re doing they can come and assist you in that process cuz uh we’ve been immersed in this issue

 

23:47
this problem now better than a year so I bet we have some local people that know how to navigate through FEMA yeah well I did a post uh you know last week on the lahina strong Facebook group and it has got over 70,000 likes and you know 8,000 shares and thousands of comments and isn’t that extraordinary yeah so there’s clearly a lot of interest I mean I could basically take that as a petition and present that to any government official and say hey look there’s clearly public support you know for demonstrating this

 

24:18
kind of alternative building you know and you know um I’m pretty sure that structure that I did is the first completed livable you know habitable structure in Lina that was built you know it’s small it’s a tiny house so it’s not you know one of like the big house you know but somebody’s sleeping In it now and they’re using it and it’s just you know it’s right smack in the middle of the lahina Luna burn Zone yeah so it really kind of stands out um when I went there I just happened to be there

 

24:45
the day that uh the day before they opened up Lina lunar Road and made let it let people go all the way down and up so this is right at I want to say the epicenter MH it was yeah I mean while we were constructing they they still had Army cor engineer crews out there removing burnt cars and trucks and garbage and right right next to us you know so yeah it’s pretty dramatic um yeah so um yeah so it’s um you know but already uh people are definitely taking interest you know there are new houses being you know

 

25:22
popped up around there now and some of the construction Crews have been you know checking it out you know showing their interest and kind of um uh yeah just seeing how much fun I’m having over there working and I have friends coming over and we sculpt trees on the walls and to paint flowers on it and you know um you know it’s not your typical construction site yeah it’s it’s uh we’re we’re playing when we’re working and that actually in my book um I I do list the uh the number one reason that I

 

25:50
do it is that it’s fun um that’s in my other book actually um you know and and it is I mean and I think we need to be putting that kind of energy in into the structures um because it really is an opportunity to help you know bring yeah Bridge people together and you know is a nice Community activity and I also often build ovens I do like wood fired pizza ovens um and then that’s a you know just using the local clay and that’s a great way of um you know bringing people together and and work and then we can

 

26:22
celebrate what I call our accomplishments um with some pizza you know that we are cooking in a Clay Oven that we built I really like the idea that as it heats up it gets stronger that is huge to me right and there there’s ovens hundreds of years old that are in Europe that are still being used now there’s absolutely nothing that would destroy a Clay Oven you know I can think of all kinds of people that would love to have an outdoor Clay Oven and have that as part of their world yeah for any Farm um you know you have a your

 

26:56
you got your Tomatoes you got your peppers your basil your garlic like whatever you know you you cook your pizza yeah exactly and you can cook squash potatoes anything you bake in a regular oven you can cook in a wood fired oven it’ll just come out tasting way better and have a lot more soul and uh so yeah for outdoor you know people here on Maui love their outdoor entertaining and dining and so and I often do benches around the oven so it’s a nice you know kind of seating area everything I’ve seen you do has taste

 

27:23
and real class I really just have appreciated you people who are on uh radio or TV uh either don’t have pictures we’re going to inter what do we call it intersperse some pictures so you’re going to see as we’re going yeah one of my favorite designs is I call it a cob Zebo so um yeah yeah this is a fun one yeah so that’s I don’t know if you can see but we’re going to put pictures up of Imagine a structure with a roof on top garden yeah so you can put flowers and vegetables and herbs on the roof and you

 

27:56
know by doing that you know it actually stays um cooler in the summertime and um yeah there’s a wow yeah you guys will want to look at all this stuff yeah raised garden bed and there’s also I I created a Facebook group too there’s a cob on Maui Facebook group and so um yeah I invite people to to check that out you know you can go to uh the cop on Maui and and on on Instagram I’m sir kobot on Instagram and so you can check out my stuff there and um on YouTube I have hundreds of videos on on YouTube um it’s

 

28:31
migs migs calot is my station and uh and I do instructional videos showing people how to do it you know from start to finish uh but yeah I I am available to uh to to build these you know that’s and I would like you’ve done so many to me is really good I don’t know if people want to go out and start doing it themselves if they haven’t done it before I would surely want someone like yourself well what would be amazing is if if they we could actually standardize this design if the county does approve

 

29:01
say hey you know what yeah we agree it makes a lot of sense to build structures using recycled wood using the local AA to to use especially if it’s fireproof and waterproof and well insulated and cheap and dirt cheap I call it you know and so um you know if they do approve it well if somebody then somebody could get the um you know say okay yes you can build one of these but you have to be trained and and and I would encourage that so then they come to me we could have a place ideally in laa where people

 

29:32
can come and we do a maybe a two- we long Workshop where we build one and then that becomes a livable space for somebody and then the person you know the people participating they are then then certified to be able to build their own you know so it’s kind of a certification program and then the product of our Workshop would be a livable space and so if we can get something like that going that would be great and then we you standardize the design um they could be made mobile um or stationary ideally we do stationary

 

30:04
so then if we do stationary then we could do round houses which I prefer to do because it just feels really nice to be in a round space opposed a square um but if it’s round then it’s harder to make it mobile and you have to um you know have it on the ground and you know which is yeah so but if it’s Square then you could actually pick it up and move it right um so uh yeah but I’m I’m hoping that we can actually if we get enough people in Laina that are supportive of this design then we can

 

30:33
have you know a bunch of these in Lina instead of shipping container no nobody wants to see a bunch of shipping containers and mobile homes you know on empty lots but if we had a bunch of cins then um it would just be it would be beautiful and it would give it a real you know a real sense of hope and create a really I was going to say a sense of hope yeah and also that it could become I I don’t know because every time we want to build something we and we don’t have enough labor here that that we have

 

31:02
to bring it in this would be a really terrific solution and build community like probably many people have never done before when I was little just a few years ago of course um you know we knew all our neighbors in the area now people have more and more isolated this is a great way to get that social thing and if everyone’s helping each other build their structures and then if in time you know they’re building this community out the way that either the way it was or now with the new revelations in a better

 

31:37
way isn’t that what we’re trying to do build back better know we I I don’t oh God I almost said the word Trump oh no by the way we have a new president coming up we are at that time but there is Kennedy and Kennedy you know he’s been here to Laina he’s been to alalu he’s you know so that that’s a great thing that he’s in there tells the gabri he’s fantastic you know so we we have some some allies you know yeah and what’s really exciting is that when they were moving the toxic dirt from lahina

 

32:11
they decided where to put it and they put it in a excuse me a ridiculous spot in olalo above where you have uh I can’t even tell you many of you who already know we’ve done like seven or eight shows so the fact that Kennedy is in there in the department of health and he’s seen this problem close up that is to me a giant and he’s probably aware on how toxic most houses are right and he’ probably you know because of the health component of the the process of building these uh you know he would probably

 

32:45
understand that too and advocate so that could be a real big plus for for Hawaii yeah for for Hawaii and everywhere I mean I I’m pretty sure that um you know not to toot my own horn but I’m pretty sure this is the best design I’ve come across for super lowcost housing yeah because really it’s quick to build it’s well insulated it’s all natural it’s beautiful involves Community participation um you know there’s there’s so so many benefits to it and you know we’re not going to run out of

 

33:13
Earth you know to build with you know it’s Unlimited Supply of that yeah right no shipping needed right right right yeah yeah you know all the all the materials are just brought to us and it’s it’s a basically they’re going to be discarded I mean it’s estimated that 20 Mill milon pallets are thrown away every year in America and and people are building things with pallets you know Furniture mostly and maybe like Little barns but they don’t know that they can put the clay the cob over the pallets

 

33:40
once you know you can do that it opens up a whole world of possibilities you know and structurally you know most buildings like this one we’re in right now it’s framed with studs you know you got your 2×4 Framing and then your insulation inside and your drywall on the inside and then wood siding on the out side and you all these unnecessary uh M materials and and steps and costs but with the pallets it’s just pallets and Clay you don’t even need to insulate the walls with air is a fine insulator

 

34:12
I’m actually not putting anything in the inside the walls here um because because you got that three and a half inches of air space which actually provides an insulation uh you know from the Heat and the cold um but it would be interesting to see how would it be to to put maybe like rocks or something or mass Earth into the pallets just to have it more density um you know so has more mass um but but really actually I think just the the couple inches of Earth that it has on the walls is enough to keep it cool I

 

34:42
mean that’s that’s what my experience has been and also the living roof you know with a few inches of Earth on the roof of the garden that also helps to keep it cool too to me that’s a great topper mhm have a garden up there uhhuh yeah I also call these a gingerbread house cuz you have Edibles like strawberries and things on on the on the roof so if you were billbo bagin you’d say home right right or The Flintstones you know yeah kab kabu but you could also have been Shakespeare you could be

 

35:10
anywhere because the world has been using building interesting You’ bring that up actually yeah yeah The Shakespearean the the tutor houses back in The Shakespearean days back in the 1640s those are all it’s called the waddle and dob where you have a weave of you like Willow or some kind of branch and then you put the the cob you know the Earth over it and so basically the pallets is a is a modern version of the traditional way of a waddle and do right so instead of taking the time to do your

 

35:41
weave and put the Earth over it you’re just putting at your pallets which are already basically uh in place and also I can imagine that in this modern time if someone wants electricity or other things sure you can easy yeah drill yeah yeah it’s easy you just get a drill you put it through the wall and you put your conduit through the wall and then you just yeah so my my Cobin you know I live in you know it has electricity has has water you know all that um yeah so that’s that’s not an issue um so it’s

 

36:14
certainly doable and and I I I’m hoping that this will just I’m calling my structures now it’s pre-legal you know it’s pre-legal so I’m I’m I’m sure that in you know it’ll soon become mandatory that if locally sourced building material are available those need to be used over something manufactured in a factory far away that are toxic and costly um you know and so I actually worked down in Argentina a lot and uh and down there they have this movement called linga linga and linga it’s a work

 

36:45
party it’s like a Amish barn raising and so I worked on building a school in 2001 down there Waldo kindergarten school and that was really the first Earth in structure down there and then it created this all this interest and all this momentum and so then they started doing these work parties you know these mingas helping to build each other houses and I went back 10 years later and uh there had been over 500 houses built in this one little village of elosan wow actually no it was like 250 then is

 

37:15
probably up to at least 500 now yeah so it’s it’s really become a huge movement and um and a committee formed and they wrote a proclamation listing all the benefits of natural building and how it was with withstands a test of time and and um a very well articulated kind of proclamation and they did submitted it to the local municipality and they signed it um allowing this process of Earth and building to be uh to be implemented so they kind of change policy so now if somebody wants to build

 

37:48
a house and I think this is actually a really good model that we should follow if somebody wants to build a house then they need to show their plans how they’re going to build it uh to show that with to the building department um and show how they’re going to do the foundation how they’re doing the framing and how they’re doing the plumbing and the electrical and show that it’s a very sound and and durable house and all the electrical is all you done safely um but it doesn’t necessarily have to follow a

 

38:17
code they basically understand that if a structure is has a strong frame is a post and beam frame to support the roof and the the frame of it is strong then it doesn’t really matter what kind of infill you do you can do you know the pallets with the Earth you could do Adobe you can do Cobb you can do straw Bell you can do straw clay you could do hemp you whatever whatever is clever really whatever you want and so because they’ve they’d seen enough examples of these structures that have been built

 

38:47
that um and these are big houses not just small little Huts like I’m doing these are like big houses for whole families a two-story and everything and so there is still a process that people have to go through through where they have a relationship you know with the building inspector and they uh they you know pay some money and they go through a process they they still have to come out and inspect and and see how it’s done um so there is and I think that’s important I think that should be done um

 

39:13
you know because because fires do happen with uh in where where electrical wiring is not done safely and um or if if something is not framed right you know there could be problems um you know but again I think if some body was to you know come to one of my workshops I could teach them how to frame something durable say do not try this at home without instruction MH yeah well I am so thankful that you’re here well you know I met uh migs migs good shortcut uh when we were in a group they I you’ve seen some of the guests on my

 

39:51
show they came out of this mankind project group in fact one of the guys I had here sitting here has another show going at this exact time with yet another brother from mankind project there are some really interesting things that are going on around here and when I I was sitting next to this guy and I he was new to to the island and I heard what he said and I thought wow that’s really interesting and then as the year progressed your structures are going up here and there and all this promotion I

 

40:25
have never seen a movement like this that has picked up so much energy so quickly I’m really thrilled to hear that the line of strong video got that kind of a viewership and sharing ship that’s very great yeah yeah yeah no it it’s uh it’s a pioneering effort you know and and I think people are are excited to see this new Innovative uh you know kind of uh design and solution um for and and yes I do hope that it it reaches the um you know kind of the uh municipality level and the government you know kind

 

41:06
of takes notice and I also hope that from here you know the Hawaiian you can imagine the Hawaiian effort over these years yeah if it got understood by the traditional Hawaiians and their structure building yeah I I hope that there’s some Hawaiians out there listening to this now because I I I yeah that’s really important to me is is that have some Hawaiian participation and support you know for for this effort yeah because that’s that’s that’s really important and I I don’t want it to be

 

41:36
this you know this guy from California coming in and kind of yeah you know but but if if we if we have some Hawaiians you know advocating for it that’s that’s really important and imagine you can imagine I can imagine the the Hawaiians show a community Spirit uh very unlike what maybe when we were kids we had more of it I feel but now with all the separate the Hawaiian culture is really a very together and supportive culture intergenerational all kinds of things I think that would be a really great thing

 

42:10
to see happen yeah I was just invited actually last week somebody contacted me asked if I could do a workshop in Malachi there’s a Hawaiian person out there and they want me to do you know because they out there in Malai access to materials are very limited you know so and but they do get pallets because they get men things and they have the clay and um so I I might do a workshop over at Malachi and straw just means grass cut and dry that’s like that’s not a problem right no it’s easy

 

42:38
and and actually out in the H they have all these straw Waddles now you know that were used for preventing erosion but now all the Lots all have gravel on them they don’t really need those STW Waddles so those are being thrown away now so I and those are perfectly man garbage is another man exactly exactly yeah cuz because straw is actually expensive to buy straw here um you know and it doesn’t it doesn’t actually grow here so yeah you can use grass you can use dried grass that’s fine i’ I’ve done

 

43:08
that no problem um so uh it’s all exciting when I see I went out to the Temple of Peace before I was aware and suddenly I saw this structure a beautiful structure right there in front of the M Reverend kar’s door that’s right yeah the the cob the cob Zebo and uh yeah fantastic you guys are going to have to look at all this stuff I’m having fun looking at this book IE candy that’s right it is very amazing because you don’t want to stop you keep seeing amazing structures that are built and personalized that’s

 

43:50
why I think you’re right about people in communities growing and doing this can personalize these really I I also call it a Eco structure and ECO stands for Earth and composite Originals right so each one is unique you can have whatever color and shape and design and size and you know you want and you know so you’re not limited to white square walled you know little boxes to live in you know you can you have a lot of fun and you know really the the intention of when I create a living space is to

 

44:23
create a space where people really enjoy being inside of so when inside they look around and they see all the curves and the shapes and the rounded you know design and and it just feels right it just feels really good to be inside it’s very comfortable and um and if we can actually get to the point where somebody who’s lost their home unnown we can get to the point where somebody who’s lost their home in the fire can actually you know sit inside of an earth and structure and say oh I am

 

44:53
so appreciative of being in this space and if it wasn’t for the fire I would wouldn’t have the opportunity to be in this beautiful structure that I help build you know with my friends and um you know so if we can somehow try to turn this crisis into an opportunity yeah well and isn’t that what we say in life right either you take something that was a lemon and turn it into lemonade exactly uhhuh yeah well this is a great example I like the way you use the word cob in so many ways a Cobin a

 

45:24
Cobo C cob on wood a whole community so this was really under a bridge for homeless people yes and so that there’s a lot of media coverage about that too if you go online to cob on wood there’s YouTubes it that that project kind of went viral also actually I mean there there’s a lot of media coverage about that because you know in just a couple months we built this whole Little Village Under the freeway uh for a fraction of the cost of what it takes government entities you to try to pull

 

45:54
something like this off and we had some of the residents of the The Village help build them as well is your labor force and we had to move them all too so you know we had to get uh forklifts to to pick them up and and move them uh to another site um so so that yeah so yeah that really does provide an excellent model that I’d love to be able to duplicate you know here in on the that’s great you guys are missing it they can’t look in this book you’re going to really enjoy I am uh just really thrilled to

 

46:26
have you here I’m we have a little bit of time but what are the most important things for you we got about 10 minutes left oh great okay excellent things that are important for you like I was going to read the reasons but I’m sure that people that are listening they have probably developing their own reasons uhhuh the clay in the cob absorbs toxins right it doesn’t use noisy things you you can incorporate elements of Hawaiian Holly for the roof see there’s so many good reasons to be looking at this um

 

47:00
yeah I mean kids can be involved this is a great activity to do with children also I mean I I would love to connect with the uh Lina Luna school you know the intermediate in the high school um to show them I I think that by the time a kid has graduated from sixth grade they should know how to identify good clay for building how to make a cob mixture how to put it up on the wall how to sculpt with it how to plaster it how to waterproof it um you know be able to explain maybe 10 of the the benefits you

 

47:30
know of it and um you know have a really good understanding of this because you know who who knows what the future has in store for us who who knows but it it it might be there might be a day when accessing uh conventional building materials from Home Depot and Lowe’s is not possible we we don’t we don’t know we we don’t know and if um you know if we’re able to prepare ourselves um to be able to be self-reliant and and and you know how to use local building materials as you know as a as a resource um you

 

48:05
know then we were really preparing you know kind of have the upper hand I me I I have this idea you know the um I don’t know if you remember years ago there was that movie um uh San Andreas there was a movie about the big earthquake that happened in California and it destroyed all of California from Los Angeles to San Francisco and and the whole state basically was destroyed and it stars The Rock right and at the very end he’s standing up on this hill looking down at the Golden Gate Bridge which is destroyed and the

 

48:36
rest of the city and everything’s destroyed and the last line of the movie is is the rock saying well I guess we got to rebuild now so and then the movie you know cuts off well there needs to be a sequel to that showing well how do you how do you rebuild if there’s no system to rely on you know if if there’s no Home Depots or stores or Banks or you know convenient uh materials readily available you have to be resourceful and who would be probably the most in demand are uh you know Latinos from

 

49:11
Mexico who grew up doing Adobe construction you know Farmers permaculturists people who know how to um utilize the the resources that are readily available and you know kind of think outside the box creatively you know Creative Solutions and um maybe even homeless who know how to survive and are are resourceful um you know so so it’s really kind of like but but we can prepare ourselves now and um you know and and really you know create these structures and these systems that that are um that are innovated that make

 

49:44
a lot of sense you know economically and environmentally educate our people uh in a preventive way but I can imagine even if there is no destruction of the world these are so terrific you know energy saving I mean like you go down the list it’s just amazing how valuable these are yeah but we just we just happen to have had this big disaster here locally you know and then so there is kind of a blank slate right now uh to be able to demonstrate you know some good Alternatives and so you know it’s um yeah um you know not not to

 

50:19
be uh you know take it try to take advantage of this and but but you really seen as an opportunity and it’s really needed I mean surely we can bring in trailers and you know for for some money you can bring in a house that folds up and becomes a little portable but it isn’t what this is this is just terrific yeah and I I think the component I I think I’ll emphasize again the the the community building component you know of this of this kind of building you know and again you know the idea of what I

 

50:53
call Earth therapy you know the process of building it you know as a therapeutic activity right so it’s not just building a house it’s not just providing you hiring somebody or a company to provide a house for you it’s actually being engaged involved in the process you know very similar to what Habitat for Humanity does and in that process you know you’re you’re you know bringing people together there’s something so unifying and bonding about working together and creating together

 

51:20
especially if it is kind of in a fun creative you know this the process of mixing up the the cob is you get the clay you mix it with water and sand and you stomp on it you mix on it with your your feet it’s like grapes it’s like grapes it’s like grapes and you know you can get a concrete mixer too and I have and and maybe if we were to do this in Laina a on a large scale uh we would use a concrete mixer um you know that that might be a bit more amenable to folks and um you know and so but then you can

 

51:49
do you know put the Earth on the wall you could do fun decorative sculpting on it and you know last week we were painting flowers you know on the Cobin I had you know five lady friends out there and we were all you know painting flowers on it and um you know so yeah it it can be five lady friends guys you want to meet women start building cop houses that’s right that’s right yeah yeah so uh yeah so uh yeah so that that’s a big thing you know is has having it’s an activity that kids can do with their parents too

 

52:23
and there’s not many activities you can do like that and and it gets kids away from their computers and and TVs and um video games and you know not just kids I mean people too I mean I think there there is a um you know kind of overall addiction that we have you know to our little mobile devices and our computers and social media and all that but you know getting your hands and the feet and the Earth and building it takes you away from that it’s it’s a break from from all that you kind of um you know that

 

52:55
media you know kind of focus and um you know gives you an alternative activity that um you kind of connects you more with reality and you know what’s what’s really important and uh it is super satisfying I mean to be able to um you know uh work you even like at an hour and see like what you’ve done in an hour like oh my gosh I I put in this hour I’ve put this cob on these these pallets and look how smooth it is now and come back in a week and see it all dry um or be involved in making Adobe bricks you

 

53:30
know making bricks is so satisfying um and I would love to do that with with uh groups of kids or people with any disabilities or anything like that you know making making bricks as a as a therapeutic activity um and then actually being able to utilize those bricks um you know is uh you know is a great thing to do so you know my my my tagline you know I have two taglines it’s one working with the Ina to rebuild Laha right and it’s also the clay the climate and culture are calling for Cobb

 

54:04
you know here on Maui and uh yeah there’s absolutely no reason why we can’t be doing this here i’ I’ve heard from so many people uh before I came and since I came that oh it’s not possible there’s no Clay on Maui the the climate it rains too much it’s impossible it’s never been done before it’s not possible and like well i’ I’ve shown that it is and as far as I’m concerned the property value Maui has gone way up now that we know for sure we have a good clay to to

 

54:32
build structures to build houses to build ovens and benches and saunas and play structures and you know Garden walls and in this time of decentralization the fact that you can from your own spot be basically self-contained that’s got to be really attractive mhh right right yeah we only have believe it or not we have about two minutes left could you imagine we could talk for it’s been a great conversation yep anything that we’re not hitting that you’d like I mean I know if I someone

 

55:04
might say to me well how much does it cost I guess it’s um okay okay yeah so it it’s it’s roughly about $100 a square foot in labor and materials if you were to hire me and my crew to come in and build so if you were to do a small little Cobin a little 120t Cobin it’s about 12,000 you that that’s about what it is you know if you were to do a 200 square foot structure it’ be about 20,000 you know so something like that I’m guessing that if any financing that would probably need some of these

 

55:35
approvals and things but that’s why we want to get involved with the county and the state so they all recognize this as viable so financing might be available I’m wondering if all the uh money that’s coming to all these people the $4 billion doll settlement I wonder if a lean against those future earnings I mean I’m thinking of all kinds of possible Alternatives because I would like to see this really picked up and used I know it would bring a lot of joy to a lot of people yeah well Miguel

 

56:10
Elliot migs cot that’s right give us some of your addresses again we only have 30 seconds but okay so um on Instagram I’m sir calot and on Facebook um I’m migs calot or uh cab on Maui I have a website cobon maui.com and uh yeah and if you want to join my um you know the uh the Facebook group you’re welcome to and I’ll be sharing workshops and different opportunities we are out of time can you imagine that thanks for being here migs I really appreciate it we’ll have to have you back see things progress all

 

56:48
right sounds great hello everyone
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