04-01-2024- Jason Schwartz in studio alone with video clips of people offering — Real responsible sensible solutions for the toxic ash- re Olowalu Toxic Temporary Disposal Dump Site. Eddie Garcia- LivingEarthSystems, Jim Holm of Clean Harbors International, Nev Hyman, Skip Rochefort from Oregon State University, Liko Martin- Hawaiian elder
Summary & Transcript
[00:00 → 07:38]
Introduction and Context: Toxic Ash Crisis in Lāhainā and Olowalu
-
The host opens the show on April 1, 2024, addressing a serious ongoing environmental and public health crisis following a devastating wildfire in Lāhainā on August 8, 2023.
-
The fire produced toxic ash containing hundreds to thousands of harmful substances, including carcinogens and cumulative toxins causing cancer and other diseases.
-
There has been significant controversy and uncertainty about where to store and manage this toxic ash. Several potential sites were considered, with Olowalu (a location on Maui) being a major focus.
-
Despite the County Council’s approval of a final landfill site near Central Maui, the land has not yet been secured, and transport of ash has been temporarily halted.
-
Currently, toxic ash is being transported from individual properties in Lāhainā to Olowalu, where it is mixed with non-toxic soil.
-
Recent heavy rains have pushed the existing containment systems to their limits, causing overflow and potential environmental contamination.
-
The ash is airborne and can travel long distances (20 to 50 km), but this fact has received little media attention.
-
The host emphasizes that burying toxic ash and hoping it does not contaminate groundwater or reefs is wishful thinking, posing long-term risks to health, environment, and tourism.
-
A community-driven approach is vital, and the show aims to share scientific insights and solutions gathered from local experts and scientists, as well as concerned community members.
[07:38 → 12:48]
Community Engagement and Critique of Current Management
-
The host explains that recent community Zoom meetings, organized by Akaku Maui Community Media, featured scientists and experts discussing solutions for toxic ash disposal but received limited public attention due to their length and complexity.
-
Eddie Garcia, a knowledgeable local farmer and community advocate, commissioned extensive studies costing $40,000 to analyze the ash problem and propose solutions, which were presented to the County Council and mayor.
-
Garcia criticizes current county strategies for mixing toxic ash with non-toxic soil and water, which increases the volume of toxic waste instead of reducing it—thus tripling the problem rather than solving it.
-
He highlights the lack of transparency and engagement from County officials, noting that none attended the community meetings despite invitations, signaling a disregard for public input.
-
Garcia stresses that toxins accumulate over time and are not diluted or eliminated by mixing, emphasizing the danger of current management practices.
-
The federal government exerts pressure on local leaders, limiting their decision-making power, complicating the response to the crisis.
[12:48 → 23:29]
Expert Presentation: Nev’s Containerized Incineration Solution
-
Nev, an Australian surfer and environmental advocate (not a scientist himself but supported by a scientific team), proposes a comprehensive, decentralized solution for toxic ash management involving containerization and high-temperature treatment.
-
Key aspects of Nev’s solution:
-
Containerize toxic waste on-site or at a secure location to prevent leakage and environmental contamination.
-
Utilize Secondary Combustion Reactor Technology (SCRT): a patented emissions control system that incinerates waste at 1200°C, followed by a secondary burn chamber at 2800–3000°C with hydrogen to destroy toxins thoroughly.
-
The system meets European emission standards and has been tested and validated by Australian environmental authorities.
-
SCRT can process difficult materials including plastics, foam, PVC, rubber, lead acid batteries, and other hazardous debris from fire-damaged buildings.
-
The process is containerized, scalable, and decentralized, avoiding the need for large centralized waste-to-energy plants, which often face “not in my backyard” opposition.
-
The system can simultaneously process Municipal Solid Waste (MSW), reducing landfill volumes to zero by converting waste into inert concrete blocks.
-
Potential output includes about 12,000 concrete blocks per day, enough material for approximately 6,000 to 7,000 square feet of housing, turning waste into a resource.
-
The process can generate 1.5 megawatts of electricity per container, supporting local power needs.
-
-
Nev stresses the solution is cost-effective, environmentally responsible, and can be implemented quickly on or near the affected sites such as Olowalu, reducing transport risks and costs.
-
The current approach by EPA and Army Corps of Engineers is seen as outdated and inefficient, with a lack of innovation and transparency.
[23:29 → 33:32]
Expert Presentation: Homer (Jim Hol) from Clean Oceans International
-
Homer, representing Clean Oceans International (a nonprofit based in Santa Cruz, California), offers condolences to the Lāhainā community and expresses deep concern for the environmental and cultural impacts.
-
He acknowledges that no miracle technology currently exists to render toxic ash completely safe, but highlights promising technologies for handling plastic waste through Portable Plastic to Waste Conversion (PPWC).
-
PPWC converts plastic waste into diesel fuel with a 14% lower carbon footprint than conventional diesel production, effectively destroying the plastic rather than recycling it.
-
This technology is particularly relevant for the plastic debris accumulating during cleanup and rebuilding efforts on Maui, though it does not treat toxic ash itself.
-
Homer proposes containerizing debris at multiple sites using low-impact machinery to expedite cleanup, minimize double handling, and reduce environmental contamination risks.
-
Containers can be stored at the Central Maui Landfill, which has sufficient capacity (estimated 34 acres for one-level stacking or 17 acres for two-level stacking) to hold all ash waste temporarily.
-
This approach respects Hawaiian cultural values by allowing time for community consensus on the final disposal method for the ash, reducing environmental impacts from current temporary landfilling practices at Olowalu.
-
Clean Oceans International and partners, including Oregon State University and PD Technologies, offer to support Maui with technology, design, fundraising, and operational assistance.
-
The proposal envisions Maui’s cleanup as a model for rural and island communities worldwide facing similar waste management challenges.
[33:32 → 43:00]
Expert Presentation: Skip Rochford, Oregon State University
-
Skip Rochford, a chemical engineer with 30 years of experience at Oregon State University (OSU), specializes in plastics conversion and environmental engineering.
-
OSU has developed small-scale pyrolysis systems that convert plastics into diesel fuel suitable for boats, cars, tractors, and generators, supporting sustainability for rural and underserved communities.
-
The pyrolysis process involves heating plastics to about 500–550°C in a controlled environment without oxygen, breaking down large molecules into smaller, usable fuel molecules.
-
Skip emphasizes the importance of honoring Hawaiian culture and community priorities while addressing the waste crisis.
-
He confirms that current containment methods (e.g., “burritos” or wrapped soil/ash bundles) are inadequate because they fall apart due to improper sealing; containerization is necessary for effective containment and transport.
-
Skip envisions a long-term sustainable waste-energy consortium on Maui, where toxic ash and municipal waste are processed locally, eliminating landfill dependence and providing energy and building materials.
-
This model could serve as a regional example for waste management on islands and in rural areas, addressing both immediate cleanup needs and ongoing waste challenges from tourism and development.
-
He calls for a thoughtful, community-supported strategy combining short-term cleanup with long-term infrastructure development.
[43:00 → 45:54]
Critical Reflection on Political and Financial Challenges
-
The host reflects on the apparent indifference and lack of leadership from county officials and the EPA, speculating on the influence of financial interests and bureaucratic inertia.
-
Emphasizes the urgency of addressing the growing toxic waste problem before it further endangers public health, environment, and the island’s economy dependent on tourism.
-
Points out that outdated EPA classifications group pyrolysis and incineration together, hindering the adoption of newer, cleaner technologies.
-
Expresses concern that money and politics are interfering with timely, effective solutions, potentially dooming Maui’s future if not addressed.
[45:54 → 53:05]
Cultural and Political Dimensions: Hawaiian Perspective and Unity
-
The show features a segment with Leo Martin, a Hawaiian musician, activist, and farmer, who highlights the lack of respect and inclusion of Hawaiian culture in decision-making about environmental and political issues.
-
Leo frames the toxic ash crisis as part of a broader political problem in the Hawaiian Islands, emphasizing systemic neglect and the continued impact of colonization and political disenfranchisement.
-
He stresses that restoring Hawaiian governance mechanisms could reduce corruption and improve accountability, providing a foundation for better environmental stewardship and social justice.
-
Leo warns that unless political issues are addressed, the toxic ash crisis and similar problems will persist and worsen, threatening the future of the islands and their people.
-
The host agrees, noting it is now 2024, more than a century after the Hawaiian monarchy ended, and yet these critical cultural and political issues remain unresolved.
-
Calls for greater integration of Hawaiian governance principles and cultural respect into current decision-making processes as essential to solving the crisis.
-
Urges a global perspective: these problems are not just local but part of a worldwide challenge requiring unity across humanity.
[53:05 → 54:43]
Closing Remarks and Call to Action
-
The host reiterates the importance of community awareness and involvement, encouraging listeners to access past shows and detailed discussions available online at MauiNeutralZone.com and Akaku.org.
-
Emphasizes the necessity for informed public pressure on local and federal officials to implement better, science-based solutions for toxic ash and waste management.
-
Ends with a musical segment and gratitude toward the community for their engagement and support.
Summary Table: Key Technologies and Proposals for Toxic Ash and Waste Management
| Technology/Proposal | Description | Benefits | Limitations/Notes |
|---|---|---|---|
| Secondary Combustion Reactor Technology (SCRT) | Containerized incineration at very high temperatures (1200°C primary, 2800–3000°C secondary) | Destroys toxic ash and hazardous materials, meets strict emissions standards, decentralized | Needs validation and community acceptance |
| Portable Plastic to Waste Conversion (PPWC) | Converts plastic waste into diesel fuel with lower carbon footprint | Eliminates plastics, produces usable fuel, supports cleanup and rebuilding | Does not treat toxic ash directly |
| Containerization of Waste | Storing toxic ash and debris in sealed containers to prevent leakage and facilitate transport | Prevents environmental contamination, enables controlled processing | Requires logistical coordination and storage space |
| Municipal Solid Waste (MSW) Processing | Turns MSW into inert concrete blocks while generating energy | Zero landfill waste, creates building materials and power | Needs integration with ash processing |
| Decentralized, Small-Scale Facilities | Localized treatment units instead of large centralized plants | Reduces transport risks, adaptable to island settings, community-friendly | Requires funding and regulatory approval |
Key Insights
-
Toxic ash from the 2023 Lāhainā wildfire poses a grave health and environmental risk due to its complex and cumulative toxic composition.
-
Current management practices—mixing toxic ash with non-toxic soil and temporary landfilling—are inadequate and increase the volume of toxic waste.
-
Community-led scientific studies and expert consultations propose advanced containerization combined with high-temperature treatment technologies (SCRT) as effective, scalable solutions.
-
Plastic waste management through innovative pyrolysis and PPWC technologies can complement ash treatment, reducing overall environmental impact and generating energy and building materials.
-
Containerization and localized processing reduce contamination risks, expedite cleanup, and respect Hawaiian cultural values.
-
Political and financial challenges, including limited local decision-making power and bureaucratic inertia, hinder timely adoption of effective technologies.
-
Incorporating Hawaiian governance principles and addressing deeper political issues is critical for sustainable environmental justice and community healing.
-
Maui has the potential to become a global model for island and rural waste management by integrating these scientific, cultural, and community-based approaches.
Conclusion
This comprehensive presentation and discussion reveal that the toxic ash crisis in Maui is not only an environmental disaster but also a complex social, cultural, and political challenge. Solutions exist in emerging technologies that safely destroy toxic materials and convert waste into valuable resources, but success depends on community engagement, political will, cultural respect, and transparent leadership. Maui’s future hinges on whether these opportunities are embraced collectively to safeguard public health, preserve the environment, and honor indigenous heritage.
00:00
[Music] well hello everyone good morning it’s the neutral zone it’s April 1st April 1st 2024 I uh just had an April Fool’s joke played on me I can’t believe it’s April Fool’s well I ain’t fooling today I’m going to be here with you for an hour and I have no guest in the studio with me because I have some clips of um scientists and Educators and people that have solutions for the problems of the ash the toxic Ash that we have in L and um I’ve had guests here on the show in
00:52
the last few weeks talking about um the fact that last summer on August 8th of 2023 we had a fire in the that devastated and basically destroyed Laha and it left Ash a toxic Ash that has literally hundreds and probably thousands of um of things that are not supposed to be there and all got created and mixed up and some of them are actually toxic and cumulative toxins that cause cancer and all kinds of other diseases and um we’ve had lots of Conversation Over the months after that on where are they going to put that
01:44
toxic Ash and um there were a number of places that were quote Chosen and designated as possible sites but uh you know the longer we go on we hear I heard his story just this weekend that the mayor was given an ultimatum either you put it in olalo or we ain’t paying from the um powers that be in federal level so we don’t know what all the stories are but we do know that there is Ash toxic Ash that’s in olalo and until they approve and change to start taking things to that site which again may not be the wisest thing
02:31
to do overall but until that happens they have all this toxic Ash and ground under it being taken from Individual properties in L and brought in trucks to Olu ALU to an area that they’ve created and designated for that toxic Ash and that Ash has been brought there and mixed with regular soil that they brought from somewhere else and we’ve had a couple of big rainfalls that pushed the system that is already in place by them they say to keep it secure pushed it to the limits and we’ve seen uh how those toxic
03:17
wastes can overflow already and uh even though the final site is you know been approved by the County Council uh um they don’t have the land secured yet and so nothing’s happening so I thought it was really important not to gloss over this you know U we hear in the news up they chose the final site everyone thinks oh great but right now we have a toxic problem in olalo we also have a toxic problem in Lina and there’s a lot of truth that hasn’t come out in the media about just how toxic this ash is and uh that it is
04:02
in the air and when it gets blown around it travels great distances 20 to 50 kilometers in other words a long long distance but that hasn’t even really been brought up to the public you know we hear that the ash is going to affect the people that are near it in the H you know no one’s really talking about olalo anymore it’s kind of off the subject sounds like uh because everyone thinks that the the uh Council decided it’s going next to that space in the Central Maui landfill again that’s not happening
04:40
yet but let’s hope that happens but no matter where it goes we need Solutions I want to do with this ash putting it in the ground and and then hoping that it doesn’t get into the water table and doesn’t get into the reef and all that goes with that is uh wishful thinking and um whether it’s in our lifetime or after our lifetime it’s a big issue and it should be a big issue for everyone not only the people on the West Side the um the Ash and the uh soil that are coming across the island from olalo to
05:22
the dump is again toxic and on the tires and on the wheels and who knows what but no matter what they’re doing with that I want to be able to share the science that was already shared with us it was shared in a document that cost Eddie Garcia and Company farmer there in the west and a real knowledgeable guy $40,000 for a a bunch of studies and solutions posed to the council and to the mayor before we had public testimony on decision on the site remembering that privately they already had pressure from
06:08
the mayor had pressure so the big question is no matter what’s going on what are we going to do how are we the people of Maui going to address a problem that will kill our people and kill tourism oh not until they discover this problem and it becomes more into the the media but um I think it would be a wise thing I think we all know that it would be wise to deal with these problems and get rid of them and it would also be wise to realize that we don’t have a second chance to do the right thing we
06:48
only have a first chance and so uh this is our first chance I didn’t bring a guest here today purposely because I have an accumulation of segments back in I guess it was February is that right maybe it was I don’t even remember the time just keeps running on the uh people’s Council of Maui was a group that was um that commandeered by Design um akaku Maui Community media to give them four or five hours on a Saturday and to broadcast their Zoom call and they had uh interested people in the studio
07:38
upstairs here at Kaku and um kie and they had scientists and people in different locations and after the show it was a very long show so I don’t know how many people had the um the strength to listen to all those hours unless they were already very committ but this is something that everyone should be interested in and should get to hear some of the uh solutions that are being posed by the scientists so that’s what I wanted to do today um I am sitting here with Clips if you’re going to be watching uh TV or
08:24
looking on the web you can go to Maui neutral zone.com and our shows are in order going backward so uh you’ll see this show as of tomorrow this show and going back and back and back and so you can see all these shows with all this information we have about 170 shows as the neutral zone and then probably another 800 zillion of them uh they’re all there in a search engine right there on the web page if you go to YouTube you will also if you just search Jason Schwarz or neutral zone or Maui put
09:03
those together you’re going to see a bunch of things show up but the easiest way is Maui neutral zone.com and the other good way is to go to akaku AK ak. org and there they have an archive of shows in a in a a link there for KA KU radio and um that’s what’s going on well I just thought to um just jump right in last time I spoke for 20 minutes before I started Clips I’m going to play you a clip first um I think it’s the last clip that I had taken out of the conversation from Eddie
09:46
Garcia you know the question is if you have toxic material that you’re taking from Lina and putting it in olalo and it’s temporary the question is why are you taking toxic material and mixing it with non-toxic material and growing the volume and then you’re going to be taking it even further to another permanent site and so you’ve created more work more toxic debris in the way that they’re addressing it and mixing it and not such a good idea here’s Eddie Garcia talking for a couple of minutes about that
10:29
listen to this like why would we mix it with water why would we mix it with AA and make three times the problem but use the excuses that we can’t move it because 400,000 tons or cubic yards is already too much so why would we triple it it just doesn’t make sense at all and so that’s why I’ve been very vocal about this so now we have the Clean Harbors we have Nev we have the uh clean oceans and there’s a lot of others out there that we just haven’t had the time to get to everyone and the county if I can spend
11:04
$40,000 on a document and put it out there to my community all facts and then the the county rather than actually reading it can tell the community that it’s not true that they’re not facts um that’s when we’re in a dangerous situation with our leaders you know what I mean and the people that represent us so that’s why again these meetings are important for us as a community to come together and not just get three minutes like we in a County Council um that’s what we get if we start something here
11:34
we can all come and speak as long as we need to so that we are heard and that we can voice our concerns and perhaps they’ll have enough sense and hopefully they tune into this they’ve been given the links to this they were all invited not one of them showed up it tells me they’re not really they don’t really care what we have to say so as a community I think that we all need to come together and we need to make our voices heard um as I’ve come to understand it even if they do care
12:03
they’re the they are not the ones that have the power the financial power the decisionmaking power on what was going to happen that was impressed upon them by the federal government but the question really is what are they doing creating more toxic waste than and if you’re going to be moving it once why are you making more of it very very strange and uh this is not normal thing that you dilute something this is when you accumulate toxins over time it gets worse and worse they don’t dilute and go
12:48
away they accumulate and uh just really crazy well you know when Eddie was introducing the scientists and the people with Solutions there was a guy named Nev Nev is a surfer he’s in Australia but he has great interest in uh solutions that create no toxicity in the world and trying to handle things and so he spoke and talked about things and I think you should hear that okay fine um yeah so thank you for this incredible opportunity to try and do some good um first thing I’d like to say I am not
13:32
a scientist um I have the scientist scientific group behind me for the solution that we’re going to suggest and it what I believe it’s a comprehensive solution that that will deal with the toxic waste um if it is containerized and placed in a certain position so the discussion around containerizing the waste is this as far as we’re concerned a good solution to store it and have it ready for it now whether that process for dis disposal happens a month after the containers are placed or whether it
14:10
happens a year or even two years after it’s placed as long as that waste is contained that’s fine now um I’m going to share with you um I’m going to share screen so I’m going to share with you just a you know a road map that I did um which is this one here so I did this um road map okay so it’s to paint a pretty picture but at the end of the day um go leave the waist go past the landfill I’m trying to be funny but in the top right hand corner um you might not be able to
14:44
see it very well but basically I’m saying take the waste to a place containerize it in the burn Zone somewhere where everybody agrees that we can contain the waste I’m due to the background and the um the people that in my group um I have all these Solutions in relation to taking commercial Industrial Waste which which is in fact what this is toxified if that’s a word brush grind pulverize it but in a in a building that is um see hazmat suits masks the whole thing one container at a time goes in it’s crushed
15:24
it’s then put into a thing a a system called s secondary combustion reactor technology this is a system that takes waste Burns it at 1200° the normal incineration scenario uh the fumes and the toxic material that normally gets scrubbed out of a a scrubber and then taken away or whatever that get that gets sucked up into a second chamber and with hydrogen gets burnt at 2,800 to 3,000 de at the end of that process the with all the testing that’s been done which meets European emission standards um in Australia we’re going
16:10
through the final process to get the final uh again let me qualify the fact that if I use the wrong jargon please forgive me because I’m just a surfboard shaper right so the last of the elements that remain are may or may not be there but if they’re there we contain them anyway and they are captured so this system um will deal with that waste all the concrete material the aggregate all the things that would be normally really difficult to incinerate or to deal with can be dealt with this system so I’ll
16:46
quickly show you um let me go to this one here so um forgive me because I wasn’t really prepared for this so uh I have all the doed documentation to show this let me just pull this one this this this is some of the technologies that can be used to prepare the waste the cndd waste for final disposal um and then I’m more than happy to share this in a better way but this my my scientists prepared this for me no the night before I’m sorry the night before to show uh the the viability of this
17:26
solution um and if I can just pick up here um okay this is what I was looking for so in a nutshell the scrt is a patented multi-purpose Emissions Control technology the strrt is designed to clean toxins and particles from emissions process emissions from incineration and combustion manage in emissions generated from kilograms to tons of feed stock per hour create significant additional heat and steam assist in generating kilowatts to megawatt of electricity per hour this is a containerized system that the let’s
18:05
say the 40t container with this system established does about 1.5 megawatts um with one of those machines in the facility container comes in goes through the crushing pulverizing scenario under strict controls for all the other scenarios puts into the multiple systems to then um finally turn that waste into this is a basically a schematic of how it works was in processing high temperature uh all the way through to other things that um I’m not going to begin to explain and my my experts will
18:44
um thecr was tested by the Queensland Department of Natural Resources and mines and assured environmental as the only means of Emissions Control during the efficient combustion of plastics foam PVC tie paper ties wood rubber lead acid acid batteries now obviously that’s in every house in every commercial building and that’s what’s happened to these buildings that have been burnt down don’t quot me on that because I’m not the expert but that’s that’s the so we’ve achieved the the emissions
19:17
control necessary to be able to deliver this inos inos um in Europe uh the emissions control in Australia are far more complex um and the the bottom line with this is I’ll say it again it’s a decentralized solution it’s it is not it’s whilst it is waste to energy it is not a $50 million $100 million $500 million permanent waste of energy plant and I don’t have anything against waste of energy but there is an element of the the nimi scenario which stops Waste Management waste of energy happening
19:59
around the world which is not in my backyard take it somewhere else I can assure you that this system being decentralized and small and and within a system taking the waste to a an element that is thly safe destroying it all the way through is a solution that should be accepted by the community as a far better solution to landfill let alone the U landfill all that we’ve discussed so whilst discussing that and without promoting the other scenarios that we have we can also deliver a municipal
20:39
Solid Waste solution that destroys sorry destroys that processes um for example 100 ton a day of mssw waste no waste then will go to landfill 100 ton comes in nothing goes to landfill so commercial and household waste are after the normal recyclables are taken out so we could have that that system with the scrt in the same building bringing mssw waste to the same site bringing the toxic waste to the same site and the output of that MSW solution is concrete blocks that have 33% of MSW fibrous material that is
21:24
inert but I’m told not to use the word inert because that’s 100% but that the toxic so in other words mssw waste 12,000 concrete blocks a day which is about six or 7,000 foot homes of concrete blocks a day that’s what the Lana Community could get from the mssw this is what the L Community could get from the destroying the the waste and putting energy back into the local Grid or powering the local Factory and then Eddie might want to continue to give some relevance or I’m happy to have it a
22:02
conversation with anybody at any time but with my scientists behind me to qualify the things I’ve said wow can you imagine every day in a processing plant that’s contained that we get 12,000 building blocks but what does that mean that means we have an amazing resource here that should be used not put into a ground and be toxic and create possible problems in the future we’re able to contain it and process this stuff and turn it into a resource and into power that really is something we should
22:48
consider right wouldn’t you say well why isn’t it yeah that’s right why isn’t it and the fact that we can have something decentralized that’s if you will portable this could be moved anywhere can be right in the burn Zone we can take care of what’s going on in olalo right there in olalo and process it there and we can stop doing things that are not only wasteful in money the way the EPA and the Army Corps of Engineers doing it but it is not uh responsible for for doing the best that they can do
23:29
do they’re just doing what they always do H you know it was only after the Paradise California fire when they started taking soil as well as Ash so there’s a big confusion on what exactly they’re doing and why they don’t have to answer to us they give you general answers and we’re supposed to be biting in and saying oh yes give me more give me more not right uh after Nev spoke on that Saturday there was a guy named Homer he’ll he’ll talk to you next and he’s gonna he’s from Clean Harbors wait till
24:15
you hear this one listen to this my name is Jim Hol and I usually go by Homer I wanted to mention that I speak from a lot of love for lahina I learned my craft as a commercial boat captain there in the 70s and 80s I have friends still living there and uh we also lost friends in the fire so we understand a little bit I represent an organization called clean oceans International we are a 501c3 nonprofit in Santa Cruz California working to reduce plastic in the oceans uh we offer our sympathy for what you’re all
24:55
enduring and we respect your need rebuild your lives as soon as possible yeah I’m sorry but we do not have a miracle technology that can treat the toxic Ash and render it safe uh we’re still looking we’re hoping that uh Nev’s solution is one of the things that you really need uh for plastic pollution we promote a process that we call portable plastic to waste conversion or ppwc technology well ppwc does not handle the ash it can convert uh the plastic packaging and materials that are already
25:36
beginning to impact the island during cleanup and rebuilding uh sounds like I might be competing with somebody I hope not uh uh unlike re uh recycling at the conclusion of a ppwc uh transition the plastic is actually gone the only technology we’re aware of where in the plastic is gone at the end of the process uh portable plastic to waste conversion converts 10 pounds of plastic into one gallon of diesel fuel for for pennies of energy and creates 14% less of a carbon footprint in that process uh our partners at Oregon State
26:17
University School of chemical biological and environmental engineering and PD Technologies of Brooks Oregon are waiting in the wings to provide you a little bit more technical detail about this process this is not what Maui wants from us now but it can be valuable for Maui in the long run our other suggestion are regarding the cleanup Logistics you may have heard Nev suggest that if the debris is containerized and available on scene in uh somewhere that they can then deal with it when they’re available to set up
26:58
their shop um although lahina residents need to return to their property at the earliest safe opportunity there are profound benefits from adopting some simple changes to that Ash removal process that will increase the speed of removing transferring and storing that debris while reducing the economic and environmental impacts which of course serves our purposes uh this does not impede the ongoing efforts during the setup and will dramatically expedite cleanup once this whole setup is operational we also understand the
27:35
importance of honoring the culture and spirit of Hawaii and the desire for disposition of the ash on Maui soil to respect the remains of lost relatives our proposal provides time for everyone to agree on the best way to process that Ash efficiently and respectfully from an environmental point of view temporarily containing toxic debris in a landfill is a definite concern rainwater absorbs the the toxins from that debris and will’ll transport that that toxins uh outside of that uh um impermeable
28:17
membrane during the inevitable rain events and we’ll funel downhill into one of the Island’s Premier coral reef destinations we all know that Maui’s economy dep depends on a pristine environment to attract visitors and the highest standards are essential to protect marine life uh the heartbeat of Maui tourism right from the beginning of this process our suggestions provide you with a more costeffective process that responds to Maui County council’s stated concerns about not landfilling at Ola
28:53
wallo temporarily this proposal reduces the costs and the impacts from handling and transporting materials twice which also is creating the great opportunity for contamination and leakage from an economic view efficiency is valuable currently trucks are loaded one at a time at individual job sites in Lina during normal work hours then join the traffic stream to and from Ola our proposal uses a fleet of low impact skid steer machines to simultaneously load multiple shipping containers at numerous locations there
29:34
in the burn Zone containers are then staged to be moved one time at night and stored until a suitable technology is agreed upon for respectful disposition of those ashes our approach avoids landfill debris that has been temporarily stored at Ola walu already could then be moved more safely and sooner perhaps someday the abandoned landfill adjacent to this new site could also be excavated and past generations of waste properly handled as well the Central Maui landfill can house a large number of containers that would
30:16
withstand Decades of outdoor uh environment protecting the contents the estimates that we heard uh suggest 40 400,000 excuse me cubic yards of debris and uh using 87 cubic yards per container uh that would require approximately 34 Acres of container at one level or 17 Acres if stored two containers high this is approximately one site excuse me one degree or less of the site acreage when suitable treatment options have been decided containers can be processed and cleaned inside a purpose-built structure to further
30:59
protect the environment from spillage uh Central Maui Landfield is also the most convenient location for refueling these transport vehicles or the tankers that can then serve that little skid steer Army that’s working in Lina the lahina cleanup and waste management including the elimination of landfills can become a model for island or rural communities around the world of course cost is always always a concern and as a gesture of solidarity uh our partner PDO Technologies of which Kevin is waiting to talk to you soon is
31:38
offering to donate some ppwc systems to Maui and these could be set up and running within a few months of a choice of a decision a best practices approach makes the entire operation more attractive to philanthropic support if invited to participate koi is offering to work hand inand with Maui County Administration to provide fundraising design installation and operational assistance during whatever time is required for CML land uh uh staff to take over the full-time operations this introduction is a little
32:15
bit light on Technical and cost analysis uh in our electronic document that’s included here we include links to our web page portable plastic uh waste conversion frequently asked questions and uh we and our partners skip roord from Oregon State University and Kevin DT from PDO are available to answer any further questions it would be our honor to assist with recovery efforts we invite the Maui County Council and anybody who’s interested in learning more to send representatives to our partners
32:48
facilities in Oregon to understand the scale Simplicity and efficacy of portable plastic to waste conversion operations thank you for taking the time to listen wow that was a lot he said huh well he he referenced Nev who the gentleman from before and that that process which gets rid of the 100% or um virtually 100% of the toxic uh element in the waste and we’re talking about something that far reaches further than the ash we’re talking about being able get rid of plastic waste on an island of
33:32
accumulating waste that is a major thing to be able to completely eliminate Plastics to be able to use the the landfills these dumping sites as basically places to harvest uh material that give us power and get rid of a problem that has been a problem on everywhere but on an island for sure what do you do with all the waste what do you do with it well this is a a great time to really see just this is an opportunity you know we didn’t expect have a fire we didn’t expect to have all these problems but here now
34:19
that we have it shouldn’t we take care of it in the best way that we can in the safest way that we can that one that will not only be good for us but be an example to others who also have these problems this is the time for us to do something like that now you know I recognize that budgets are always important and and I am thinking that I wouldn’t be surprised at all if there are private sector individuals with a lot of money that can recognize this is a great solution and one that they could
34:59
in fact be be uh in this business or surely supporting it with their money and making a major contribution to the whole world and using Maui as the place to do it now uh Homer just spoke about Skip Rochford at the Oregon State University and Kevin dwit of PD Technologies so I think it’s important that we listen to those we still have a time for one maybe both of them but it might be tight so I think the next one to listen to would be the um the uh Oregon State University gentleman skip roachford listen to this
35:47
and listen carefully uh this is uh skip roachford uh I’m at Oregon State University uh I’m a chemical engineer by training and I’ve been at OSU for organ State University in the College of Engineering for 30 years um I have um been working in the Plastics area for about 47 years I know I don’t look that old but uh I am so um I just want to uh say first off that I’m very honored to be able to have participated in some of these discussions uh that are going on uh to learn the culture of the people
36:19
and to see how important the culture is uh to the people of lahina uh here at OSU we’ve done some work with the paradise uh folks and I and just uh what I what I learned really is that this is a whole different um situation here because of of not only the island but also of the cultural attachment uh to the to the land that frankly doesn’t exist in some of the of the of the continental United States um uh cleanups so anyway I just wanted to to say that I’d also like to say that we uh are
36:50
involved in research so we have small scale systems I have lots of students I’ll show you in a minute a a brief uh presentation of people that are working on this and we have been targeting small scale systems for Rural and underserved communities uh there’s a big social justice around Plastics uh and we’ve been dealing solely with plastics um I’ve worked with clean oceans Internationals and I’m on the board of directors there I’ve worked with Kevin dwit for 15 years or so um these are
37:18
people that are looking for solutions that are clean and sustainable and we as a research arm try to provide uh some information on this to help better design so uh that’s uh with that I want to share my screen and uh about just very briefly about uh our system okay so uh slideshow from okay all right so we have a I do a lot of work with students my job uh my product our students and my my job is education so uh so this is uh just a group of people I want to make sure we um acknowledge them uh I work with
38:00
another faculty member with Kevin dwit and of course with clean oceans International uh here’s a quick view of pyrolysis all right so uh this all this says is we take big molecules which are what Plastics are and we convert them into smaller molecules and in our case we’re going uh completely to diesel every every time so we want to make a product that people could use in their boats their cars uh their tractors and their um um uh generators here’s how simp system it’s very small we do this
38:29
on a laboratory scale we built a kiln that generates uh a high temperature of like 500° 550 degree air we have a k a tube here where we put the material in and uh all we do is add heat uh condense it and then uh we end up with diesel fuel in about four to five hours to six hours something like that okay so it’s a very simple system it’s clean uh we can contain everything here’s the process uh on the left hand side of are sort of cffs from a local uh uh uh called Dutch Bros it’s a local place that serves
39:03
coffee and other drinks we grind them up that’s the second uh uh uh panel you see here there’s our our reactor and then right out of the end of the reactor we get this Diesel and like it says here in about 5 to seven hours very simple system uh and it’s something that we’d like to be able to set up in communities around the world uh just to prove that we actually have a diesel uh here’s what the on the left hand side is what the off-road diesel uh carbon distribution looks like so this is on the bottom is
39:29
the carbon number uh and you can see the carbon number uh goes from about c78 91 up to about 25 for off-road diesel or what we call Red Diesel and this is some unwashed ocean Plastics that we’ve run and it’s about the right the same distribution so we this basically shows that we can make a very good diesel product uh in a single step uh here’s my my partners uh and uh that’s all I really wanted to share I want to get this through this pretty quickly um I what I I do want to do is um is is add a couple
40:02
of of of comments here um I have watched the Drone footage I’ve seen a lot of the videos that people have been posting uh of the lah of sorry of the olalo site um and it just makes me um very sad okay about what’s happening there um and I just like to add that putting the waste in a in containers of some kind uh burritos or whatever ever um is certainly the best thing that I think we can do right now so that we can actually start uh uh putting Solutions together to solve this problem uh and we could
40:38
keep it on site okay on site meaning somewhere uh on the island uh I’ve looked at the burritos being dumped into the uh into the Olu site and the reason they fall apart is pretty simple I’ve been working on trying to stick hdp things together for a long time and you can’t do it okay they said they use adhesives you cannot do that you can heat seal it which they’re not going to do in the field but that’s why those burritos fall apart it’s like you know you’ve ever eaten a burrito you bite
41:04
into it and everything comes out uh on the on the plate that’s what’s happening there right that’s because it’s not sealed properly at the ends so they’re never going to be able to seal that no matter what they say however if you take those burritos and stick them uh in a container then you’re in good shape or if you just fill the containers as as Captain Homer was saying before so the big thing that both Nev and Captain Homer have said is that is that we need to contain this need to get it off the
41:28
site so people can start getting back to their lives and we need to be able to deal with the waste not in a very quick fashion but um in a in a way that is thoughtful and that we can make uh we can we can really use the technologies that are available to us to the best of our ability and I want just add the last thing I’d like to add is that the way I look at this is that there’s there’s an immediate need the immediate need is to clean up the site and and to get that waste off the site and to handle it in
41:57
some way but in the long run Maui still has a landfill issue they still are generating a lot of waste they still generate a lot of plastics and what I Envision happening is that if we take these containers and bring them someplace and we set these Technologies up in that area then that becomes a sustainable waste energy Consortium or or site where this can go on uh Maui could be if they do it right a model for all other islands that have to deal with waste not necessarily uh just from fire but from just the general waste of a
42:31
whole bunch of tourists coming in and dumping a whole bunch of crap uh uh on the island okay and I think that’s the way to look at this is that if you look at the things that we’ve been proposing you can have a short-term solution you can have a long-term solution and you become a model for the islands about how to handle uh waste so I really would encourage you to think about that long-term solution also as part of uh what you uh what you do here uh when you pick your your Technologies I thank you
43:00
so much for the opportunity to be able to sit in on this and to listen to everything that’s going on I really appreciate the people of Maui uh and um I hope that we can honor your um your uh past and your presence thank you very much well thank you skip now listen to how much concern these people have and how much Integrity they have when when they delivering their message wouldn’t you think that the County Council and the mayor would be reviewing this stuff and somehow challenging the EPA well maybe you can’t
43:43
challenge him because it’s the money it’s the money you know when you hear people talk about that stuff you always say follow the money whates that does that really work I think sadly it does and uh I’m going to wait on uh Kevin DT and um and uh getting him on from PDO Technologies we’ll have that on another show very soon but you can see all these processes work together and you know Kevin dwit is PDO technology going to talk about pyrolysis you know pyrolysis means I call it burning but when you heat things
44:26
and you don’t add oxygen that’s called pyrolysis when you heat things and you add oxygen that might be called incineration so just a different process but things take a long time to get approved and if you go into the EPA and you find that those two things pyrolysis and incineration are in the same category so they’re not even up to dat you’d think that they would be the most up to date of anyone in the world but they are not they are not and I think that the uh undue influence that money plays in
45:12
decisions being made here could be the demise of these islands and tourism in time because of all these toxins being a problem and it getting out you know we we all know that a lot of things in our world aren’t as they’re represented in the media and then later we hear about things like oh well we knew that but we didn’t want to panic anyone or all kinds of other things that you hear in time about all kinds of stuff this is another one that you say my goodness what is going on we probably have maybe 10 minutes to go 11
45:54
minutes till the end of the show I want to play your something that um I thought was last time at the end of last show I started a thing by Leo Martin and I stopped in the middle he’s not only a musician and a songwriter and an activist and a farmer he’s um you know he’s of the Hawaiian culture and you will hear in what he talks about about how hawaiana and the culture has not been given a chance with all the systems that they had in place that they’re not in in place here listen to
46:33
this prioritizing right get to a yard and say okay what what who are the suspects who who do I first round up because as U walu is at sub the place where all of this is occurring in laa to me it is obvious that the issue isue of the political situation in the Hawaiian islands is at the top is at the top of all of this and as I’ve held that position um you know I’m just saying that this is this is important so important because not to say that oh because if you’re to restore a a government that said that you’re not
47:30
going to have corruption you’re not going to have things like that but that you will have a mechanism of of of you have a a a foundation of agreements or or you know political stuff that you can follow up and you work with and that because just because olalo is a Target now tomorrow where’s the next Target there will be more targets and there are more targets already on the books because the issue of the political situation in the Hawaiian Islands hasn’t been avoided and this avoidance is is is
48:20
obvious they’ve left the trail something you can follow up on when the Congress 19 he says we we’re going to to acknowledge ramifications it has not been the fires in White in in in the H is a ramification that has not been what is happening in Olu walu is a more severe now it’s compounded to if that’s what is going to allowed to continue just take me out now I mean just let’s let’s just get to the bottom of this okay and that’s so I once again and and and I say this not with arrogance
49:05
not with uh any type of Vengeance or anything like that but I see it as a an issue that can be address and could have a substantial impact on the on where we are now and where we can prevent from going in the future so that our mutual concerns for Life For Humanity we we can you know it may be just the the the issue that the world can can gather a sense of unity around because of how beautiful it is and how quickly it is just being destroyed um with the question of with the um um eeve can look at the
50:01
ashes of removing them when when he mentioned it was like well look at all the people kanaka who have left to live in Las Vegas if they’ve left here they’ve left their eeve behind yeah and they said because it’s not safe and it is an issue sure but to but you know we have to go on we have to find a place where we can survive and be safe yeah and I’m glad they’re there because there’s always tomorrow me it’s not promised but so I just wanted to to to bring that issue up respect for
50:43
fora from walu and kpuna around the world every people all around it’s just just like one indigenous Humanity we all came from that working with what we had and the culture came whether it’s you know potatoes or this and that we are one indigenous Humanity yes we are dad so anyway and I’m this is really wonderful for me yes thank you thank you yeah I I really like Leo he brought up that point no respect for the Hawaiian culture and that things have not been addressed in a meaningful
51:32
way we’re now 100 God knows3 years um after the queen abdicated the throne under the situation we many of us know without firing a shot because she didn’t want to have uh didn’t want her people to die here we are it’s now 2024 you would think that after all this time we would be addressing those issues but it doesn’t seem that the world uh puts it on its priority list and we talk about it here about honoring the Hawaiian culture and I hope that we do more of it and we incorporate some of
52:21
the processes that they used in their governance and um help us make better decisions help us make better choices I hope that that this show along with the last show where we had more testimony about olalo and we’re going to have some more I still have two more scientists that I want to bring to you and um I think it’s really important that we put it into bite-sized chunks and put out here to you the people not only of these islands but of the world this is a global issue and here in the
53:05
United States maybe because we’re so uh far away we’re not considered that important we’re only a couple of electoral votes and um whatever we are we we’re um really asking for more problems if we don’t make the changes now because these things are getting going on and on and the worse it gets the more angry people get and we saw all of us who remember the January 6th Institute in s January 6th in um in Washington DC and all the violence and all the the confusions that have happened through that we have have to
53:57
really come to terms with all being one Humanity together and dropping the animosity from it all you know well I enjoy getting on here with you guys this is KAKU 88.5 FM the voice of Maui akaku Maui Community media TV channel 55 on cable Mau ineutral zone.com you can find all our shows and you can find all the shows up there on YouTube if you put in the right keywords with only a couple of minutes to go I think that I’m going to spare you hearing me talking and I am going to pick a song let’s see let’s see
54:43
if this one will fit nicely and then the closing credits here’s one may cut off early we’ll see [Music] [Music] [Music] in [Music] [Music] my [Applause] [Music] i s [Music] I we’re out of time but we love you and we hope to see you next week thank you for joining us aloha
