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Jason visits with Paul DesLauriers of Maui Pono Network on 11-27-2021
Summary & Full Timestamped Transcript Below…
Summary of Video Content: Maui Neutral Zone Show 131 with Guest Paul DesLauriers
[00:00 → 05:56] Introduction and Overview of Systemic Change in Maui Governance
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[00:00] The host, Jason Schwartz, introduces the show Maui Neutral Zone, highlighting its presence across various media platforms and noting a transition from radio to podcast format. The episode features Paul DesLauriers, a longtime Maui resident and activist engaged in politics and social reform for over a decade.
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[02:11] Paul opens by reflecting on the current socio-political climate, especially post-Thanksgiving 2021. He critiques mainstream media’s portrayal of the global “Great Reset,” pointing out its links to fascism, technocracy, loss of liberties, mistrust, censorship, and increasing surveillance.
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[03:28] Paul stresses the existence of an alternative path—one of reclaiming democracy and systemic change through grassroots community action. He introduces his book Reclaim Paradise, emphasizing the potential to reverse decades of increasing centralized control.
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[04:51] The discussion centers around the concept of systemic change—restructuring the economic, educational, military, medical, judicial, and transportation systems, all governed by overarching governance structures at federal, state, and local levels.
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[06:38] Paul highlights local governance (counties, cities, towns) as the critical entry point for change, as state and federal levels are more influenced by corporate interests and mainstream media control. Grassroots participation is vital for reclaiming governance locally.
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[07:20] The “trigger” for systemic change is achieving a progressive majority in the county council. Maui County, after 125 years, has recently achieved this majority, leading to unprecedented positive shifts in policy and governance.
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[08:33] Maui’s progressive leadership contrasts with other Hawaiian counties still grappling with corporate influence and “corporate democrats.” The goal is a revolution in governance toward self-sustainability and fairness, requiring active community participation.
[09:18 → 18:22] Values, Governance Challenges, and Corporate Rule
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[09:18] Jason emphasizes the importance of shared values transcending political divides. He views the progressive movement as a “radical” but refreshing shift aimed at systemic improvement.
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[13:47] Paul defines the current system as one of “corporate rule,” characterized by hierarchy, secrecy, divisiveness, systemic racism, suppression, and social engineering driven by fear and control. He labels it a “sociopathic system” with elite manipulation and eugenicist tendencies.
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[15:08] The pandemic and associated fear have intensified this control and misinformation, but Paul stresses the existence of a counter-movement—grassroots efforts to reclaim democratic control and community wellbeing.
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[17:40] Jason asks Paul to clarify “sociopathic system.” Paul explains it as a structure where individuals act based on corporate-driven, manipulative social orders marked by suppression, divisiveness, and secrecy.
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[18:22] Jason encourages Paul to focus on Maui’s Charter Commission work as a concrete example of this systemic change in action.
[18:57 → 26:49] Maui Pono Network and Charter Commission Initiatives
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[18:57] Paul recounts the origins of the Maui Pono Network in 2018, which builds on earlier grassroots efforts like the Ohana Consortium and the Shaka Movement to establish a progressive majority in the county council.
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[20:53] A significant milestone occurred when the county council gained a progressive majority for the first time in 125 years, enabling notable policy changes.
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[21:40] Paul explains the role of the Charter Commission, convened every 10 years to review and amend the county’s charter—the local constitution governing home rule and operations.
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[22:53] A major charter amendment shifted commissioner appointments from mayoral control (all 11 chosen by mayor) to a mixed model (9 by county council, 2 by mayor), breaking the “good old boy” political network and allowing more representative, community-focused governance.
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[24:19] Paul describes a pivotal amendment to decentralize planning from a centralized department under mayoral influence to regional planning commissions with citizen oversight, empowering communities to shape their development.
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[26:11] This structural change is likened to changing the shape of the “football field,” redistributing power from centralized control to local citizen bodies, despite anticipated resistance from incumbent mayors.
[26:49 → 38:22] Structural Reorganization and Governance Efficiency
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[26:49] Another charter amendment separates housing from human concerns into distinct departments, recognizing the urgency and scale of affordable housing challenges in Maui, where average home prices exceed $1 million.
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[28:47] The Maui Pono Network supports nonprofit collaboration to create cost-effective, perpetually affordable housing solutions.
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[30:08] Paul emphasizes the county’s substantial $860 million budget and the need to allocate resources effectively through focused departments.
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[31:30] Paul details the issue with mayoral appointment powers over numerous important boards and commissions (32 total), which historically allowed political cronyism.
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[32:11] To counter this, a “blue ribbon commission” model was revived to create a vetted pool of skilled citizens for appointments, increasing transparency and community representation.
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[33:27] Paul stresses the urgent need for a Chief Operating Officer (COO) to manage county operations, differentiating this role from the mayor’s political leadership. Currently, the county lacks this critical position, resulting in inefficient “siloed” operations.
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[36:31] The mayor’s political management style has contributed to dysfunctional governance, with inadequate interdepartmental collaboration and ineffective oversight.
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[37:47] Environmental issues and regulatory loopholes benefiting corporate interests often burden citizens. The charter amendments aim to end such systemic dysfunction, making county governance more accountable and community-centered.
[39:00 → 48:59] Public Engagement, Candidate Development, and Political Realities
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[39:00] The Charter Commission actively engages the public with biweekly meetings and community announcements, facilitated by a local advertising firm (Gilbert and Associates).
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[40:14] Citizens are encouraged to participate by testifying on charter amendments and attending meetings, with information accessible via the official Maui Charter Commission website.
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[41:21] Paul introduces the concept of “minor league” candidate development, identifying and nurturing promising community leaders from high school and college levels to prepare them for future political roles.
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[43:37] The Maui Pono Network is nonpartisan but supports candidates committed to people-first and environmental values rather than corporate agendas.
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[45:25] Paul contrasts this with the corporate political machine’s “rigged” system, which coerces elected officials to vote against community interests under threat of losing support.
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[47:46] The sociopathic system filters out candidates lacking alignment with corporate interests, resulting in a binary political choice that preserves elite control regardless of party.
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[48:59] Paul underscores the importance of strengthening local home rule against top-down tyranny, especially at the county and city levels, as counties have distinct legal charters and constitutions that protect local governance autonomy.
[49:38 → 01:04:28] Local Governance as a Model for Global Change and Call to Action
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[49:38] Counties serve as the “rubber meets the road” level of governance, administering resources and services directly to communities. Maui’s success in progressive governance can serve as a global model for grassroots resistance to centralized corporate tyranny.
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[51:42] Jason commends Paul’s tireless leadership and commitment to systemic change, emphasizing the importance of informed, engaged community members.
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[52:18] Paul stresses the critical importance of the 2022 elections, which will determine the fate of many charter amendments aimed at improving governance, affordable housing, food sustainability, and environmental protection.
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[53:27] The Maui Pono Network will begin candidate interviews for 2022 soon, focusing on replacing entrenched “good old boy” state representatives with genuine progressive leaders.
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[54:04] Paul highlights the state legislature’s dysfunction, such as blocking a minimum wage increase despite local economic realities requiring at least $17/hour for a living wage.
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[55:21] Paul calls attention to issues like foreign control over Maui’s water resources, emphasizing the urgency of electing representatives who prioritize local community and environmental interests.
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[56:31] The Maui Pono Network dedicates thousands of hours to vetting candidates and educating voters, providing objective, fact-based information on candidates and issues via their website and social media.
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[58:24] Paul encourages community members to get involved by visiting mauipononetwork.org and reclaimparadise.org for detailed resources about candidates, charter amendments, and the systemic change process.
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[59:45] Jason and Paul conclude by emphasizing the shared values underpinning the movement, transcending political affiliations, and fostering unity among diverse cultural groups in Maui for a sustainable future.
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[01:02:40] Paul highlights the importance of countering mainstream media misinformation and corporate propaganda with grassroots truth and community narrative reshaping.
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[01:03:51] The conversation closes with a hopeful message about collective leadership, community responsibility, and ongoing participation being the key to reclaiming and preserving paradise for future generations.
Key Insights
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Systemic Change Requires Local Engagement: Maui County’s progressive majority in the county council and Charter Commission reforms illustrate how local governance is the critical battleground for reclaiming democracy from corporate and hierarchical control.
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Decentralization and Citizen Empowerment: Moving planning and decision-making from centralized mayoral control to regional, citizen-led commissions empowers communities to shape their futures.
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Structural Reforms Needed: Creating specialized departments (housing separate from human concerns), appointing a COO to manage operations, and reforming appointment processes are essential for efficient, transparent governance.
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Political Candidate Development: Early identification and nurturing of community leaders ensures a pipeline of values-driven candidates capable of challenging entrenched corporate systems.
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Nonpartisan Focus on Values: The Maui Pono Network supports candidates based on community and environmental priorities rather than party affiliation, challenging the “rigged” bipartisan corporate rule.
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Grassroots Resistance to Global Tyranny: Local home rule and county autonomy serve as protective barriers against top-down corporate and governmental overreach, with Maui as a potential model for other regions.
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Community Participation is Essential: Public awareness, testimony, voting, and volunteerism are critical to sustaining systemic reform efforts and ensuring governance reflects community needs.
Resources Mentioned
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Maui Pono Network: mauipononetwork.org – An information hub for voter education, candidate vetting, and community engagement.
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Maui Charter Commission: Accessible via county website or by searching “Maui Charter Commission” – For updates on charter amendments and public participation.
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Book: Reclaim Paradise: Available at reclaimparadise.org – Provides an overview of systemic change efforts locally and globally.
This detailed summary captures the key elements of the discussion, reflecting the layered approach to governance reform, community empowerment, and political activism in Maui, as articulated by Paul DesLauriers and Jason Schwartz.
Full Transcript
00:00
[Music] aloha and welcome to another show this is jason schwartz your host at maui neutral zone it is anything but neutral you can find us at akaku maui community media tv you can find us on radio at kaku 88.5 fm the voice of maui you can find us on youtube you can find us at maui neutral zone you can find us but you know what we are now a couple years into this and i’ve been interviewing people about values different kind of stuff and um this is show 131 i’m going to be switching to podcasts and putting this
00:56
into not a radio so i don’t have to be there at the same time every week so but we’re gonna be reformatting but i wanted to have a guest that really was timely and we just had thanksgiving here happy thanksgiving to you this is 2021. paul des lauriers is a face you may recognize and say i’ve seen that guy i’ve seen that name just quickly paul you’ve been involved for many years i know that uh you’ve been here what better than a decade now right a total yes it’ll be over 10 years
01:32
a total uh yes okay and you’ve been involved here and helped us and been involved in in politics and in social change and social reform for a good long while you know uh politics aside you’re a guy that thinks and cares about people and you show it by your actions um every decade or so i guess in every decade we have things special in maui and paul is now involved in that and paul i would like to kind of let you kind of introduce this whole idea because this is a very special and powerful and fantastic time
02:11
even though we see things going on in the world in the world of maui powerful and positive things are happening welcome to our show paul how are you today well i’m doing well jason thank you so much for having me on your show and and yes i i think that during this time of thanksgiving there’s a lot that we could be thankful for and that really hasn’t been the main news going out we’ve been hearing a constant stream from mainstream media of this great reset and from that perspective
02:45
it’s already one track this is the way it is this is the way society is going certainly in europe right now there are tremendous protests going on i think people are really understanding what this road is that mainstream media is trying to push us down it’s about fascism it’s about technocracy it’s about removing liberties it’s about also in the collective consciousness feeding fear mistrust uh misinformation censoring things again here we are in a situation where surveillance keeps on increasing
03:28
at a high rate but there’s a way we can go on to another road and this is a road that mainstream media does not talk about and yet it’s here and we can utilize it effectively and efficiently because they don’t say that we as community as a collective can make this shift and go down this other road like i mentioned that is about really reclaiming our democracy and i have a book out uh recently uh called reclaim paradise and that’s exactly what we can do we can reclaim uh what has been going on over the past
04:14
really 50 years but ever increasing so and what we can do i think in terms of going down this other road we have a clear path and it’s been laid out and it’s here that we could utilize it we started here in maui county uh and it has been a real uplifting process but what we’re doing though is creating systemic change and what do i mean by systemic change well you know you’re if i was listening and i didn’t have a framework of what you’re talking about you’re talking about
04:51
social change and uh restoring paradise and doing the right thing in many aspects of our lives you know what you’re talking about and that in these recent times we feel like we’ve been clamped down because of this covert thing and just a general thing where things are controlled and where our information is and given to us in different way and our leadership has a certain posture but in that out of this burning thing is coming something great and that’s what i was saying you you’re
05:26
talking about a systemic change that’s what this you’re involved with the maui charter commission right well that’s one aspect of that change so i’m just giving the framework because you’re talking about friends so our audience listening now out there paul’s been involved in social change and political change and now he’s talking because if you weren’t on maui they may not know where we’re talking paul so okay back to where you were talking about the systemic change yeah
05:56
and and what i mean by systemic change is when we look at the systems that control and help wire society in a particular way we’re dealing with economic education military medical judicial transportation all these different systems are really shaping our society but within those systems then there is an overriding controlling system and that is our governance and when we look at the three levels of governance then we look at the federal state and local level local including county cities and towns
06:38
when we look at that local level that is where the entry point is that’s where we can go about making systemic change it’s too wired on a state and federal level especially with mainstream media being controlled so what we have is a situation where we need grassroot engagement we need participation we need involvement by the locals so that they can say wait a minute we can take control of our local governance and that is the key now when we look at our local governance there is a what i like to call a trigger
07:20
and this is when you move that one piece everything shifts so in county governance and in towns and cities also it’s the county council or the board or the overriding council then that you need a majority and i i have to emphasize a majority we’ve had here in maui county uh we’ve had for 125 years there was a period where we didn’t have a progressive majority in the county council but once that happened the shifts were really in place now that have been happening over the last really four
08:02
years have been incredible unprecedented for maui county and now all the other counties here in hawaii are looking and saying what’s happening how can this be how can these progressive movements to support the environment and the people how is that happening when in other counties they’re still struggling in many ways with corporate rule and that’s what we have here on a state level we look at this as democrats but we were really dealing with corporate democrats which are very different i think than
08:33
those democrats who are supporting the people in the aina so um i’m i’m hearing your story you’re explaining the whole system here i got you so now the change that you’re looking to have happen here uh you know it’s a re-evolution a revolution here in maui brought about by i believe leadership both on a private sector like yourself and people in the seats in these positions like council who can shift the way things are that’s to me what’s exciting in this time of change and opportunity that’s happening
09:18
there are people that have an idea where that rudder should be uh towards self-sustainability and uh a system that seems much more fair to the people but it requires participation right it’s people aligned in action and together the possibilities here are fabulous well well that’s that’s just it that’s that’s the key how do we create then uh community coming together we had a very unique challenge here in maui county with the diversity that we have in different cultures so we have filipino japanese portuguese
10:00
mexicans hollies i mean it goes on in terms of all these different pockets and the way that it used to be is that they would vote for primarily those people who who were part of their ethnicity but what we’re dealing with here is looking at a process in a system where we can look at getting the very best candidates so that we can get them on the ballot and support them so that they can get elected and that is i think the key in terms of how we can regain our governance on a local level again the
10:38
the brass ring the the key is getting a majority of the county council and then from there everything else will will uh even though you don’t have the the mayor or even uh in some in some counties uh you get uh the uh prosecutor is is elected uh the police chief is elected but here it’s not we have committees but again these can be uh manipulated and they have been in the past you know what i as you’re talking about this i’m i’m aware that you’re educating people about how the system has been
11:19
i know that um right now i wa i really wonder um what is is happening now because your your subject is a very broad one that um i’m as a listener i’m wondering so what do you want if if i was left or right of center and you’re talking about having people on council and it’s really important in numbers i’m also thinking about that’s why my show is about values because if we talk about the good things and what should be done the values should rise to the top and it shouldn’t even be a matter of
12:02
majority and minority values should rise up and we should the numbers should go away that’s what i’m excited about and what you’re doing because you’re you’re very in my mind your your shift and what you’re talking about is very radical only to those that are fixed in the mud but for for most people in these times of change what you’re doing is refreshing and i think people that vote all kinds of ways on the council this should be exciting to them too this is a real important thing that you
12:37
know they say this is more important than whether we live or die this is moving the whole system to a greater thing for all of us what a fantastic example to the whole world you know we talk about showing them all these things of maui this kind of a governance model with the kind of changes that you’ve been talking that are going to be in front of us how many 25 30 different kind of aspects and more what a fun it’s like we’re changing the field we’re changing where the goal posts are
13:11
maybe the goal posts are the same but now we have a round field and you when you try to kick the ball you’re wondering where do you kick every direction looks the same but i’m just really powerfully moved by your involvement you know you’re as i can tell in your in your conversation you’re a scientist you’re really giving detailed bolts where when i think of you know you’ve been sharing about the role of the system and now you’re going to probably talk about the counties and and how the power structure
13:47
has been and where the changes need to be i’m hoping i’m not sure what direction you’re going right so let’s let’s let’s let’s take a step back just a moment here um what we’re looking at right now is corporate rule uh that is part of the great reset that is being promoted and what is is being put on to society at this point in time let me let me define so we have corporate rule it’s about hierarchy it’s about consolidation it’s about backdoor deals compartmentalization
14:25
divisiveness and systemic racism that loyalty and secrecy are about dark values and what i mean by dark values it’s about fear it’s about suppression it’s about surveillance it’s about uh you know uh taking away their rights and it’s about social engineering and using false flag attacks also so what we’re dealing with here you know in what they’re trying to push us toward is a sociopathic system i mean this is when you look at the values of what is driving this sociopathic
15:08
system it is about again suppression it’s about taking away your rights it’s about uh the uh control and manipulation by an elite few who who uh seem to be eugenicists so what are we dealing with do we want to go down that path or do we want to take a different path and we can’t because one of the things that’s happened we talked about values is that right now there is an unbelievable amount of fear that is kind of all over this planet right now from this not only from the suppression
15:47
but certainly about the fear being generated about the pandemic about vaccines whether to take it or not and then the suppression that happens for people who don’t take it and again we’re looking at this whole mass thing happening on a global level the orchestration that has gone into this started you know 15 years ago and and i’ve heard about these this type of situation way back in 2004 so this is something that has been extremely well planned and we’re seeing some of the aftermath
16:25
but there’s a counter move and that’s the important point here jason that that we we can do something different we can take the situation that we have right now and we could say no you i i because this is going to affect us from generations from now and this is the gap we have and that’s why it’s so important for us to really say we’ve got to make a change i was just on a radio interview with ralph nader and and and the emphasis there again was that we need to get out of this
16:58
sociopathic system we need to get out of it and come to a place where we can reclaim paradise reclaim uh our democracy let’s define sociopathic system because the words talk about media the word sociopath has been given quite a you know fanfare over the time so a sociopathic system is what it’s it’s filled with compo well it’s the way it’s structured right now if you look at it it means that everyone’s everyone’s individual model is conniving or making moves based on a system with that
17:40
the social order is the driver of this the way that people are treating each other that’s the corporate structure you’re talking about right so i think that if you go to the values and you go to their mission their mission is about suppression and control and their values are again about divisiveness systemic racism uh secrecy dark values when you say they i hear i understand so i’m saying to you here comes here comes the guy on the white horse it’s you and this commission and more than the commission like you say
18:22
it’s a whole understanding of change of values i’m bringing it back down to the maui commission thing only in that i’m looking to to identify areas that we’re going to see or hope to see would like to see change because the the discussion about uh like you do with the ralph nader there’s more in a national uh scope and talking about the system and as our whole system but our our audience and viewers i’m hoping they’ll see that we’re a year away from an election time
18:57
that’s a really powerful thing to say we have a whole year and if we know the direction of what can be and we get people to see their need to be involved and that’s what i’m hoping this show is going to be able to do great so so let’s talk about that let’s talk about how we can do this locally and how we’ve done it here in maui county locally so in 2018 uh we started the maui pono network but the maui pono network was based on uh those who came before so they had a group who was uh involved with the
19:33
ohana consortium i think it was called uh and wasn’t the coalition that different state ohana coalition and that’s that was the first uh really uh attempt to really look at getting a majority of progressives in the county council seats then the shaka movement came and so this is really built on the connections and relationships that was that was done by joe and by by bruce i mean they did an incredible job and what we’ve done with the maui pono network in 2018 was to build on those foundations of
20:16
progressive uh movement and we’ve had a lot of great leaders here i mean we have lucian danae and dick mayer there are people who have been really uh thought supporters and then we had also at one point in time alika atai was very much involved with trying to create a consolidation of a majority of progressives so in 2018 we took that and we really tried to then bring it to the people why it’s so important that we have this majority for the first time in 125 years here in in in the county
20:53
and when we got a majority in the county council for the first time the changes have been amazing here’s one example of the changes so they put together uh a uh several amendments for the charter that then the county council put onto the ballot so in 2020 there were seven charter amendments one of those charter amendments was that instead of the mayor choosing all by the way let me let me explain the charter commission is is formed every 10 years and their job is to review and to rewrite the charter
21:40
based on input from the community so that it reflects what the community really needs and really wants and really supports so this charter is is our constitution it is the way things are wired it’s our law it is about home rule and how we define that home rule so it’s extremely important in terms of how governance happens here in our local community right well you mentioned lucian dene and dick mayer they again been uh real driving and keeping the progressive movement going here for a long time and
22:19
uh so now you’re now you’re in that role you’re in that seat i don’t know who else is on the commission but you hold a progressive view as uh well let me finish let me finish here jason because what happened in the ballot was that then instead of the mayor choosing all 11 commissioners now we have the county council choosing nine and the mayor choosing two so that meant for the first time instead of the mayor choosing his cronies to rewrite the laws especially when they’re part of the good
22:53
old boy network then those laws and the way things were wired were not there to really uh support the community as well as they could but now for the first time because of this change in the charter in this year when we had them this a review of the charter because this is the 10th year they were able to select then 11 who were more representative of the entire community and our needs so it made it uh quite different than all the other charter commissions that have been gone before so this allowed us then to say wait a
23:34
minute um let’s let’s choose people who represent the people in the aina and so we have 11 commissioners that were chosen and and i was one of those who were selected and we’ve been meeting uh every two weeks uh for anywhere from three to six hours and we have thus far uh agreed on over 40 charter amendments now now some of them are very small in terms of an amendment in terms of having it be like a three-year term that goes to a five-year or if if things are changed you know but there’s some of them are huge that
24:19
are happening and and let me give you an example planning department now we look at the development of all our communities here and what’s happened with this amendment that we just passed is that instead of having the planning done by a central planning department which was chosen and selected by the mayor which was then later approved by the actual county council but but the selection process and the way it’s been done is that the mayor chooses then uh who who will be in that commission
24:59
what we’ve done instead is we’re saying no more central planning commission we have uh with the if this passes in the 2020 election we’ll have no more central planning instead planning is going to happen based on the regions so that we have citizens within that region who will be participating and they will become the planning part for that they would they will be that not the planning department but they will be the planning oversight for that region and they will have the authority to do that so instead of
25:33
having the mayor or the good old boy network control then the planning the planning then goes to the people to the citizens so that they can determine how their community evolves in the future so see how different this is in in the potential impact and the repercussions this could not by changing that one charter thing now when i when i hear that that kind of a thing that’s what i meant about changing the shape of the football field it is it’s a great thing to see those kinds of changes happening i’m sure that every
26:11
mayor that’s in there says why would they want to take uh power away from me i’m very fair and open but this way we won’t even make it a problem for them to even be in consideration i think yeah in terms of county governance again i think that the county council is there to really represent i think the broad range of people in their different districts so i think that uh the county council does listen uh very carefully and and does respond uh on a whole especially now that we have a progressive
26:49
majority who’s overseeing than our our county uh now we have a mayor who is is let’s say not as progressive okay uh and there has been a lot of uh challenges with that but again we’re changing the system here’s another example we’ve had our departments then we have all these different departments that are doing all of these operations and one of them was housing and human concerns it was one department for housing and also our human concerns so what we’ve done in this charter is saying wait a minute
27:27
affordable housing is such a huge issue here and we don’t even have a department to take care of specifically housing and the huge issue that represents especially now when we look at our average house sale over a million dollars i mean who in terms of our local residents can afford that and and again you’re you’re looking at you know having an income of you know 300 000 a year in order to afford a house in a mortgage like that so again so what we’ve done is we’ve separated with
28:06
saying no human concerns that’s a priority these are near-term issues of life and death for people so that usually takes priority as it should for that department but now that we’re going to have a hopefully a separate housing department which i hope this passes in 2022 that it allows that department to have the resources the planning the staff so that they can really start to look at some of the affordable housing issues and needs that we have well in audition yeah in addition the maui pono network is involved with
28:47
uh supporting all the different non-profits coming together so that we can create a very highly cost effective solution and and with that make it so that properties are affordable in perpetuity and that’s going to be huge uh i think as we look into the future of our county uh you know i listen to you and i i’m hearing you i just am aware that when you start separate department for housing the separate one for human concerns may be combined with other things so you’re changing the shape of what that
29:25
government looks like you’re changing on who is choosing the people guiding the policies and you’re making things more local uh i hope that this also involves some kind of council of now that each region has expressed itself and has expressed its job through its actions and leadership uh if the way the monies have to be balanced and the way we have to have if you change then have two departments now you have two department heads making x and has that stuff getting into the yeah but yeah but but the issue is here is
30:08
that there are two separate issues uh human concerns and housing uh really need to be handled separately and and you need to have the resources which we do have i mean we’re a very rich county our budget uh is 860 million dollars so uh and for a county this size that is pretty darn good because of our property taxes that we have and again that can be improved as we move forward so that we can support the affordable housing initiatives that we have so i think that when we look at you know systemic change
30:49
this is this is the process of systemic change another example um the mayor would choose the can the people who would be uh involved with all the different uh commissions and and uh boards that we have we have 32 here that oversee different aspects so we have the liquor commission and we have you know all these different uh volunteer community volunteer uh boards that support and give recommendations to the mayor or whoever is going to make the decisions right you know who but who is on the board and who is
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on these commissions is extremely important to our community we found a lot of mayors right yeah so the mayor would get then all the candidates and wouldn’t disclose who all the candidates are and then just select one out of all of those and then give it to the uh county council for them to decide also and agree upon however what we’re looking at here is having it then we’ve agreed to have a blue ribbon commission they did this about oh gosh what 12 years ago they did it only for a short time but it
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was extremely effective and efficient dick mayer was was in charge of the blue ribbon commission and kelly king was on it and and it was just in a very highly effective way of creating a repository of skills and talents of our citizens so that they could actually be asked to participate in these different uh boards and commissions because again it takes certain skills it takes certain understanding and know how to have a blend of those come together it becomes highly effective and efficient but why would the mayor have
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any reason not to want to support that power is not the issue here isn’t this supposed to be serviced but again when you look at the way things were especially when we look at the hierarchical system that we first started talking about on a larger scale it’s about the elite few or the elite holding control and power so even if it filters down to the mayor that again the stance is control and power we’re going to have uh one we have a charter commission coming up on thursday uh and on december 2nd
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and one of them that’s coming up is the county administrator uh and that’s going to be very huge because can you imagine an 860 million dollar corporation that is primarily focused on operations doesn’t have a chief operating officer i mean we have a manager we have we have a managing director but we don’t have what we really really need is a c-o-o and and to have a corporation this size and not have that is to me is insane it just i mean my background my background is organizational development and i want to
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old thing about you’re up to your eyes it’s nice to have great plans but then you come in and you’re up to your eyes and alligators you need someone who isn’t involved in operations that can step up that’s what paul is that’s a chief operating officer is separate than someone who’s running it if you will that’s what i want to convey right isn’t that what you’re saying well uh you do need someone who’s highly skilled and effective in operations management which is a very different
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skill than being a mayor but the mayor has taken that responsibility onto himself and it’s created a big big problem in terms of the effectiveness and efficiency of how the county is run it’s it’s based on political it it’s it’s based on a four-year period so like right now a guy like sandy bars right sandy bars is right there in concert with the mayor would you call him administrator is the mayor the decision maker and sandy baz is the administrator or this is a totally different role yeah i i you know i’m not
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going to go specifically on sandy but i’ll but i mean as far as i will reflect uh county council members have told me the way it was in the past okay and basically what we had was this manager was really a um a very highly paid secretary for the mayor and that’s how they termed uh that position and what we need instead is a chief operating officer who has the skills the background the understanding to run an 860 million dollar corporation with all of these different departments that are doing all these different
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things we the way the the way the uh county operates is in isolated silos to a large extent there’s not a level of collaboration and cooperation in fact that’s one of the charter amendments that we pass that they have to start instead instead of working in isolated silos work collaboratively because it just has such a negative effect on effectiveness and efficiency of how we run this this uh county uh it is uh really our our cooling honor in terms of the commission to really support than effectiveness and
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efficiency in terms of county operations and uh it hasn’t been that it’s been more like it’s been more third world i mean if you if you really look at the way governance is compared to other counties in the united states this is more like a third world operation and we’re going to graduate beyond that we’re going to become a a professional uh uh effective way of administrating and managing these tremendous resources that we have but again when they’re not managed properly or let’s say there’s a larger
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influences that are affecting things like the hotels and taxes that they pay or they didn’t pay or or the way development happens and the skirting of environmental regulations that now are burdened back to the citizens who have to take care of things that you know were done because of little shortcuts in the planning departments and giving the weak wink okay you know to their buddies this has got to end this has so so this is a way to end it uh through these different charter amendments that’ll be
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coming in it stops the wiring it stops the wiring from being dysfunctional to one where it’s effective and efficient and really supports the community in the aina the other way it’s it’s about really affecting the profits of an elite few and are you going to be on is the commission going to be announcing some of these things or coming up still too early still working oh no no there have been uh regular uh public service announcements uh we have actually for the first time uh we’re actually
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engaging the community and communicating and participating we had a contract that was given to gilbert and associates a local advertising agency and they’ve been doing i think a very good job in terms of putting the messages out you can see a lot of uh every two weeks there there’ll be an announcement in terms of what is going to be happening our next meeting is on december 2nd where the public can participate and give their comments and input on specific issues that are going to be covered
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um where would we find out besides the maui news which now only lets you look at a few articles before you get a subscription where do we get information in maui county about these kind of things now so so for the charter commission go to maui charter commission and just put google that and you’ll get over to the site and it’s county site excuse me and and on there you’ll see all of the amendments that have been passed thus far and those that are upcoming and uh again uh if people want to give
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testimony to any of those amendments uh we welcome that we really implore that in fact uh we we so larry gilbert and company is taking your stuff and getting it out to the public that’s what you say they’re doing a good job hopefully we’re going to see the public being aware of this in my mind more because the next step is the one that interests me most which is the participation you know when you talk about this to have candidates you need to have candidates that know what they’re doing and so that takes
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participation enough to when there gets to be a decision you know what’s going on i’m sure that’s part of your process has to do so so yeah so let’s let’s take a step back from the so the commission again as i mentioned i think is is something that is certainly an integral part of systemic change but also part of that though is getting the right people elected and uh i think that one of the things that we learned from the first election was that uh especially when we had one
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of the candidates that we got in turn on us uh and go the opposite direction and support the corporate agenda uh that we we really got that we have to do a better job in terms of engaging candidates early on so what we’ve started is is a minor league i guess you could call it uh it’s like baseball where you have uh this baseball team goes out and starts searching and looking for people who are in high school and in college and if they show promise then they’ll have their their scouts go
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up to them and say hey are you interested in becoming a professional baseball player and if they are they will bring them into the minor league and they start them off at the eighth on the a lead and that means that they uh during the summer time they take breaks and they they bring these kids in and they start working and they start developing if they get really good and they progress they go to double a and if that is successful there they go to triple a and then in triple a you know then they can go to the major
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league season same thing here what we’re doing so we have a uh right now we have a minor league where we’re going out and looking for people who testify who are doing great civic engagement process projects who are involved with the community who communicate well and then we ask them are you interested in running for for candidacy you have a lot of potential in terms of your leadership in terms of the way you articulate yourself in terms of the way you’re focusing on these core issues that are so important
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to our community so my only thing when i hear about this the only thing i think about and i always may or may not be true but we are going out to find candidates that means whoever this group that’s going is looking for candidates with values like you said that match up with yours as it’s going out and it’s being announced to the public i’m always thinking about well what are the republicans don’t want to pick on a group what are the other guys doing are they developing candidates are we going
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to see a society i hope that puts out education puts out truth and then lets a good sense to be the driver and take the these political that’s why i’m hoping talk about that you know take the political pieces out of it and just have things that are good and self-sustaining come together and that’s where you don’t have to be quite as tied to that vote because unless people are trained to know what’s going on in their community they may be good leaders but you know that always
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said there’s always these other sides i’m always wondering like in our in our more national things now where we see that some of the people that are against stuff bring in violence and other things because they’re not educated and groomed in a way like you’re talking so as this is happening i hope it i hope that i know there’s a guy i’m sure you know gary hoosier who’s been known here in uh kauai and also in those state politics so his training of candidates i’m hoping that it’s
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very broad politically only in that i think that’s really healthy for our system you know i’m just as i’m talking i i hear you guys that are doing progressive things are doing great but i always wonder about who else is in the game that also needs to be educated about the way things are done so argue their position yeah first of all uh jason that uh we the maui pono network is not involved in terms of supporting a particular party and and we are here in terms of supporting people who really have their priority in
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terms of the people and the environment and supporting them instead of corporate profits and that’s you know that’s our main focus so so what we do in terms of getting these people involved early on and supporting them and getting them involved with the county council members getting them involved on specific projects we will go we will bend over backwards to give them an opportunity and a platform so that they can develop and evolve the same thing is happening with corporate rule also they grew
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their candidates and they go through a very rigorous process oh it’s amazing i mean they will give you an example um uh when i was in massachusetts i used to have regular meetings uh with uh leaders in our community at my house and we have about 60 people there and we have these big discussions and one time i had these our state rep there and then i had a state senator there at our house and and what happened was i asked them how does the system work how are people advanced through this system
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and he gave a very stark kind of response saying it’s rigged that what happens is that you’ll go in as a as a freshman and then they’ll try to put you on different committees and then they’ll have the party boss being in charge of those committees and they will tell you to vote certain ways even if you know that it’s against the people and the environment and if you don’t do what they want you to do they come by and says you know i’m very disappointed with you i you know i
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don’t think we’re going to be able to support you next election in fact we’re going to try to get someone to take you out right now you know if you keep on voting this way or keep on that’s how that’s the way the system is with corporate rule whether it’s republican or democrat it doesn’t matter what matters is do they they support the corporate agenda and what’s going on you know so so what we’re looking at are people in terms of the grooming process not filtering them through dark values
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and say you know are you into corruption are you into manipulation are you into propaganda if so guess what you get to go to the next level no we’re doing just the opposite in terms of you know i hear yourself but i’m just saying those things that we’re talking about that’s that sociopath that we talked about earlier isn’t it the system of sociopath this this this allows the system to to then filter through and allows those people to go to the top and so what you get is a selection of
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a versus b which is really the same yeah you know because it’s about corporate rule it’s not about republican or democrat or any of these parties so that’s why we have to bypass that in terms of the rewiring process and look for people who are there to support our community who and and what happens and what i’m seeing happening here to a certain extent is that you gain more control of home rule now that’s very important in terms of the tyranny that we’re facing on a global level at this point in time and
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home rule you’re talking local even to the point of local areas of this local island that’s where the grip is and that’s so in in large counties you have cities that exceed our the size of this county so they need to create then on a city level an umbrella of progressives that support and protect the citizens and the environment from the tyranny that’s coming from the top down you see the thing is with county governance this is this is really important counties are the um a legal
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entity that are separate that have their own charter as we mentioned and that’s their own laws and and their own constitution then the states have their own also charter and bylaws that they are run by and then on a federal level that happens also but what is the way it’s wired and the way things happen is that the counties are the administrators they’re the ones who are involved with the this is where the rubber meets the road but the county the state and federal are dependent on the county to get all the money and
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resources and all this stuff they suck it out of the county and the towns and the cities but what we’re doing here and saying no we can create a protective barrier uh and and support our local community so that this tyranny and injustice doesn’t penetrate and that is why this is so important right now and why this is really i think affecting then can affect global change in a positive and uplifting way because it counteracts then the tyranny that’s coming from the top down instead what we do is cree we create on a
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grassroot bottom up where we are fortunate to be here to be able to try this rather than on the mainland they’d someone be trying to smash us we’ve got a lot of independence you have been an integral part of making this happen here over the last handful of elections more than handful 2018 to do that you were working before you’ve been tireless i really personally want to thank you for the commitment that you’ve made the time commitment the research commitment the the commitments that you have
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done more than just talk paul you are a great example of a person that takes it and moves forward as a really good leader because you’re you’re very encouraging your our audience out here should feel like they’re very fortunate to have someone that is in that group of 11 in this charter commission that is aware of just how important this restructure is at this incredibly important time any other things that are specific i know we’ve covered a lot of a range of things that you might want to have
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talked about but i i know that there’s probably um i want to call it something that kind of puts it all together that you really want to deliver to an audience anything you want to specifically share i i would say first of all that the 2022 election coming up in november is going to be extremely important in terms of our county constitution our charter uh there are going to be a lot of amendments that this group has put forth that can change it so that our operations are much more functional
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effective efficient that we can deal with issues like affordable housing like food sustainability like cleaning up our environment dealing with all different types of issues we can do so much more effectively and efficiently but we need those votes so that we can change the wiring so that it does become like i said more effective much more effective and efficient well you’ve been a tireless champion with this stuff go ahead another another piece is that we’re going to be starting in may
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to start interviewing candidates for the 2022 election we have state representatives now the state again is where the wiring has been very dysfunctional and again it’s been just like uh it was done in the state in massachusetts that little example i gave you exact same thing’s happening here uh so we have corporate rule uh basically it’s you know they call it democrat but in reality in terms of how things function and how things are are put down and laws i mean they wouldn’t even allow
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the discussion to happen on raising the minimum wage from 10 and 20 cents an hour to fifteen dollars an hour and yet all these studies show that in order for people to live here in maui county you need seventeen dollars an hour minimum so so so so this is how crazy and how unsupportive the system is to the people and that’s what we got to change but we change it through then our elections and that’s why when we get state reps we need to change our state reps we have we have several representatives you know uh
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you know troy and kyle and justin and all those they’re all part of the good old boy network and they do exactly as they’re told and they get the support of the of democrats who put out flyers every other week or every month for their candidates and they you know they bumper they say we have to look at how they vote i mean these guys are voting so that water our water is controlled by offshore foreign interests i mean our water is our future it it determines not only our crops that we can grow and
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where we can grow them but also our developments and to have that being controlled by a foreign entity this is insane i understand i mean those are the kind of issues yeah we there’s so much that we’re talking about these are critical things people need to understand this but in order for us to get control of that again with the 2022 elections are so important yeah and that’s why the maui pono network we go through great lengths last time we spent our staff uh our core group we spent over 3000 hours
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going through jason you you came on for one of the interviews one of the interviews yeah uh and and uh we really did a lot of vetting to make sure that we got the right candidates in you know that we were supporting uh same thing is going to happen this time around i think our state representatives it’s going to be extremely important that we get some new blood in we have some progressives but not many uh and in terms of the county council we have to keep on increasing it so that there is a level of collaboration and
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openness especially as we look at integrating all these charter amendments that are are being put forth at this time so i you know it it it’s a very important time uh i think that people need to be consciously aware mauipononetwork.org is a i think a very good source it’s a it’s an information hub last election we had 128 000 hits on our website uh because what we do is we we’re just objective we want to get the facts like you jason we just want to get it clear we want to make it uh so that everything
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is well vetted and people are asked important questions so that they the community can understand who they’re voting for and that’s our main objective so that you can make informed decisions same with dealing we also give a lot of information on all the key issues water rights what’s happening with the charter all these different things will be on our website our social media we got we were getting uh just on facebook alone 30 000 tips a month during the election process so again you know our our objective uh our
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kuleana is to be an information hub uh an objective clear information hub for the community so that they can make informed decisions about our voting process and again we’ll have charter amendments and also candidates uh that’ll be there and you know it’s it’ll be an important time so i i would if you are interested in volunteering and participating you can check in with us at mauipononnetwork.org and i have a book that is out right now i mentioned it earlier on it’s called it’s called reclaim paradise
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uh and uh here it is yeah and and you can get that at reclaimparadise.org it gives a great overview of our process how we’ve been doing this how we can bring about systemic change not only here in maui county but globally so i think it’s a very timely and important book again reclaim paradise.org and so and again if you’re interested in specific information about candidates uh and charter issues that’s the mauipono network.org and again you can uh look at all the different orders that are being proposed
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going bought to the charter commission maui charter commission and uh thank you for all the time and effort that you and your team um are you’re so committed for all of us and like i you know i say about values that’s what attracts me to what you do like you say you may it may be political but it’s not it’s social values and we don’t care what your political persuasions are if if something is right it’s right you know and that’s that’s what’s really nice whenever i’ve
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been around the people there they’re very open to listening and sharing and making things better rather than throw out the baby with the bath water it’s a really refreshing group of people i i look forward to being in that process and hope others will be involved in your process and i just want to mention uh yeah that the maui pono network we have an incredible core group and it really there’s six of us who are ongoingly participating in this and and working hard so it’s it’s not it’s not
01:00:22
me it’s our whole team and all the different people that we’re working closely with so i i just want to you know put that out because that’s the reality of it i mean we work uh with the spirit of aloha and we work together effect i think fairly effectively and efficiently as a team and again if people would like to participate and get involved and get engaged with this process and what we’re doing in serving our community in this way you can check us out at again maui mauipononetwork.org
01:00:58
okay they’re going to see it every time they see your name they’re going to see it because i like to make sure that the audience can be in touch with guests especially someone as uh important as you paul you’ve been a very important and influential force here in maui and in hawaii and uh massachusetts we feel very fortunate here we we real amen we reeled in a great one when we got you paul really happy to have you here in the community and i am you know i came here from the mainland too
01:01:32
we have a i’m really excited to know that the hawaiians also are getting more involved because of people like alika and others that you’ve been working with over time to see the integration and political activity that also involves our local people and cultures is really an important piece for me but it’s been very it always felt when i first came here like it was separate but now right in progressive things to help the aina and our land and do right for the people hopefully we’ll bring these
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cultures together in a really beautiful way you know and that’s the unifying force when we look at supporting then future generations i mean we’re looking at our actions really affecting seven generations forward just like the seven generations past has affected you know our community narrative and how we move forward with our discussions based on the culture that has evolved so i think that when people look at really getting involved with social change what you’re also looking at is community
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narrative and that is uh affects them our subconscious belief systems and we have to counter than a lot of the propaganda and misinformation that is being put forth by mainstream media uh which again is controlled by corporations so uh you know five corporations who control it so well i hope that when people listen to mainstream media that they listen to listen for facts and separate them from the judgments and slants because the facts are undeniable and you know everyone’s got their opinion about them but facts
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are really that’s what somehow is happening here the truth is coming out instead of it’s not like we’re running to find it it’s here but it’s with all the rest of this stuff around it it’s hard to see where the truth is but it’s it’s an amazing process paul you are a champion and i’m glad that you’re getting exposure on the national level with a guy like ralph nader and maybe he’ll come here and uh we’ll uh have a picnic well you know i’m i’m so
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proud of our maui county because like you say you may have a group of six but that six b gets six begets another six and that’s what we’re talking about everyone being active and participating in saving saving everything we got to be the example that we were waiting we’re waiting for leaders and we’ve discovered it’s us and that is such a funny one we hear but it seems to be the truth it really is and you are it paul thank you for joining me here today on the neutral zone and thank you jason for what you do
01:04:28
and helping to communicate to our community the way you do appreciate it you’re welcome i hope you’ll join us again and to you out there in the world at large we hope that you will see you again and uh have a beautiful day aloha [Music] you
