Olowalu TOXIC ASH DUMPING-discussion-Jason Schwartz w Scott R Bushnell TNZ 240212
Summary & Transcript
The video transcript is from a broadcast of the “Neutral Zone” show on February 12th, coinciding with Abraham Lincoln’s birthday, hosted by Jason and featuring guest Scott R Bushnell. The discussion primarily centers on the aftermath of the devastating wildfire in Lānaʻi, Maui, focusing on the environmental and health hazards posed by toxic ash and debris, the challenges of recovery efforts, and the socio-political implications affecting the community. Jason and Scott delve into the complexities of handling toxic waste, critique government actions and priorities, and emphasize the need for scientific transparency, local expertise, and sustainable practices in land management and disaster recovery. They also touch on broader issues such as the island’s historical land management practices, the decline of agriculture, mental health care infrastructure, and the socio-economic challenges faced by residents post-disaster. The conversation reveals frustrations over bureaucratic inefficiencies, political agendas, and the perceived neglect of community voices and scientific evidence, with a call for greater accountability, informed leadership, and community empowerment. The show closes with a preview of future episodes addressing ongoing environmental legal battles and invites public engagement.
Highlights
- [03:00] Discussion on sustainable recovery efforts in Lānaʻi and the mishandling of toxic ash.
- [05:00] ⚠️ Warning about the severe toxicity of ash from the wildfire and the health risks of returning to contaminated land.
- [13:00] Critique of government science and environmental testing, highlighting past contamination issues linked to soil movement.
- [20:00] Historical context on water management and land practices that were lost after the sugarcane industry collapsed, contributing to wildfire risk.
- [31:00] Commentary on the influence of money and politics in local government decisions, particularly related to disaster recovery.
- [38:00] ️ The social and economic struggles of displaced residents, including insurance battles and rebuilding challenges.
- [46:00] Mental health crisis management challenges in the community and the consequences of closing state facilities.
Key Insights
- [03:00] Sustainability vs. Expediency in Disaster Recovery: The recovery approach in Lānaʻi is criticized for being scattershot and inefficient, especially in handling toxic ash. Scott and Jason argue that instead of moving ash multiple times over long distances, it should be contained and treated locally to minimize environmental impact and public health risks. This highlights a broader issue of disaster management where expediency often trumps sustainable, science-based solutions, risking further harm to affected communities.
- [05:00] ☣️ Toxicity of Wildfire Ash as a Public Health Emergency: The toxic ash contains dangerous chemicals like dioxins and other hazardous compounds released by burning modern materials such as PVC and household chemicals. The health risks are likened to those experienced by first responders at 9/11, underscoring the gravity of exposure. Returning residents to contaminated land without thorough remediation is essentially exposing them to a death trap, raising ethical and legal questions about government responsibility and residents’ rights.
- [13:00] Distrust in Official Environmental Science and Testing: The speakers note a disconnect between government-appointed scientists and locally hired experts or farmers with practical experience. They mention past contamination caused by improper soil movement under previous administrations, which led to rare cancers in children. This distrust underscores the need for independent, transparent, and comprehensive environmental testing to ensure community safety and rebuild trust.
- [20:00] Loss of Traditional Land and Water Management Practices Increases Fire Risk: Jason and Scott explain how the collapse of the sugarcane industry led to the abandonment of traditional water catchment systems like water bars and check dams that helped retain soil moisture and reduce wildfire risk. The lack of these land management practices has left the environment more vulnerable to fires and floods, illustrating how modern land use changes can exacerbate natural disasters. Reviving such indigenous and agricultural knowledge could be key to future resilience.
- [31:00] Political and Economic Influences Undermine Recovery Efforts: The discussion reveals skepticism about the political motivations and financial interests behind disaster recovery decisions. Money influences which projects get funded and which voices are heard, and some officials may prioritize expedient solutions or political agendas over community health and safety. This insight calls for greater transparency and accountability in government actions related to disaster management.
- [38:00] ️ Community Trauma and Housing Crisis Post-Disaster: Beyond environmental hazards, displaced residents face immense socio-economic challenges, including insurance disputes, lack of adequate housing, and the impossibility of rebuilding their homes as they were. The trauma is compounded by bureaucratic inertia and regulatory constraints, emphasizing the need for compassionate, flexible policies that address immediate human needs alongside environmental concerns.
- [46:00] Mental Health Infrastructure in Crisis: The program touches on the severe shortage of mental health facilities and services on Maui, worsened by closures of state-run institutions. This has led to repeated emergencies involving vulnerable individuals without adequate care or housing, illustrating a systemic problem in social services that is as urgent as environmental recovery. Long-term solutions require investment in mental health infrastructure and community support systems.
Conclusion
This episode of the “Neutral Zone” offers a multifaceted examination of the Lānaʻi wildfire aftermath, weaving together environmental science, public health, political critique, and community storytelling. Jason and Scott passionately advocate for science-driven, community-informed responses that prioritize safety and sustainability over expediency and politics. They highlight historical missteps, current challenges, and the critical need for holistic recovery strategies that include environmental remediation, sound land management, social justice, and mental health support. The show serves as a call to action for local leaders, residents, and the broader public to engage deeply in rebuilding efforts with transparency, accountability, and respect for both the land and its people.
Full Transcript
00:02
good morning everyone if it’s 11:00 on Mondays it’s the neutral zone it’s anything but neutral good morning it’s February 12th at some point in history February 12th was Abraham Lincoln’s birthday and then he was memorialized and now he has a Memorial in Washington we take off a day and it happens that it’s Monday February 12th how amazing but next week is President’s Day the 19th and they’re going to not give us a show so how amazing but we’re here we are on
00:37
Lincoln’s birthday and I have a great surprise guest he’s a surprise to you but not to me Scott AR Bush now Welcome to our show hello hot Scott is one of our field correspondents that means he goes into the field and he corresponds and brings back tidbits or he does video and submits it and creates shows whether he’s sitting here or in the field and um he’s my friend and he’s been my personal trainer making me feel better uh Scot Aloha swim lessons.com is that right that’s that’s me yeah okay good I
01:13
remember see I remember yeah and uh we’re now Maui neutral zone.com the reason I bring that up to all you on radio we are 88.5 FM the voice of Maui we’re simoc cast on akaku Maui Community media channel 55 on cable but on the web at Maui neutral zone.com you can see a list of all of our shows 160 or 70 of them plus a search menu there that can show our old shows so you can see the last 30 years of Maui Jason and Ariel style but now here we are now and we I was going to change the name of this
01:49
show to Mama presents but then I realized wait the neutral zone needs to stay as the neutral zone it’s anything but neutral but we can call you Mama call you Mama Jason you can’t have you want I’ve been Mama Jason people said oh mama isn’t that cute Maui Arts and Music Association created in 1991 when many of you were just children well I thought I was a children I actually the next year ran for air against some people I didn’t have anything against Linda lingle I just think she didn’t make correct choices
02:24
cuz they didn’t involve me yeah they isolated me and boxed me and um it was really a mistake cuz I my green ideas got politicized because there was a green party and then my friend he became a new friend but pundi who is now Memorial memorialized in stone at the cultural center right but the direction of Maui was and can be better than it is right now Scott you’re going to have to jump in because I’m on this role here I think no you’re I’m enjoying the role Jason you know we
03:02
we were going over the sustainability um in the recovery effort in Lina yeah and that’s been kind of a shotgun approach they’ve been shooting it all over the place there’s you’ve brought up in your previous shows how they could Warehouse the the to the ash the toxic parts of that that aren’t just Burntwood and bamboo on the site which makes so much sense and we we always have a plethora containers here why moving it all these miles to then move it in triple or quadruple the volume to
03:36
an even further site when in fact they could be handled almost in place or within proximity and done at a time and a rate when we can use it so it all makes sense that all can be done right now I I think I think Jason we’re we’re just we’re we’re a little late dollar short and a day late on this one cuz I think if that were introduced from the get-go I think it probably might have been done well it was introduced you see that’s part of this I like I like there was a little clip that I just saw I saw
04:04
it this morning Maui’s toxic controversy oh I saw that did you yeah I don’t know Jesse wall but when I saw it I thought here he has the mayor coming on and saying yes I’m concerned every day about getting people back on their land you mean the one that the head of the Department of Health says has so much toxicity that you know we don’t realize how dangerous this is and that if we don’t deal with that first we’re gonna kill everybody I why is that not well I’m finding hard that you know and this
04:36
is what I’ve gotten from a few people I know that have lost homes is well yeah that’s that’s one survey I want somebody that of I hiring to go and my insurance company says they’re going to go and they want to do a a and they’re not letting him do that well well again you’re talking about individual property right I want I was just making clear that before I lose this point the head of the Department of Health has Global Experience in major major things all over the world plus there’s people with
05:02
experience with toxicity and Ash you talked about 9911 and the level of toxicity and the if you just have one toxic thing if you have two three four you run into a problem where there’s so much toxicity anyone that’s going back to their land is basically sacrificing their lives and the lives of the people around them and that’s got to be clear before the mayor makes a decision to send people back to the land cuz he listens to to his experts which ones are you listening to that don’t realize this
05:34
is toxic if you don’t bundle and move this stuff and contain it before you move it you move it I am hot on this because it’s something that’s this should be stopped right now mayor Bisson I want you on this show you want you on this show well let’s do it there’s these little things that come out that show your point of view and in what you say you are showing how foolish what you’re doing is and I know that you care about the people you don’t think that we everyone cares about the people but
06:05
sending them into a death trap when we know it’s a death trap and it is going to I don’t even have to dig deep here sorry to say that expression all these chemicals that were there we what I have not seen a report on is the fire burns very hot a lot of chemicals are dispersed with heat and toxicity can be dispersed with heat I we’re not being pulled any thing about that we’re just giving one person the Department of Health giving an opinion he didn’t his opinion is very it’s weighted no no his
06:37
opinion is as an individual but his experience and the the science that you’re asking for it not only is provided and was provided before decisions were made it’s clear to me that the mayor is trying to look out for everybody’s well-being but I don’t believe that he understands I really don’t don’t believe that he’s been clearly made aware so is there there was New York oh yeah tell me about all your friends yeah I I I have two friends that uh worked in the cleanup and
07:13
actually they went and they went in with their rescue dogs from the Albuquerque I was living in New Mexico then I had two neighbors that uh went in to do recovery there and both of them have one is still alive but ended up having to retire early from the fire department and the other passed away from a strange camp answer because they didn’t know all the chemicals and what was going on in the Trade Centers they didn’t know that that was a there was pharmace there wasn’t pharmaceutical but there were a lot of
07:43
different things going on in those buildings that were under reported or uh not reported what I’m seeing in Laina is basically neighborhood communities and when those burn to the ground the guy who’s got you know 12 cordless battery drills in this garage yeah that’s bad but we haven’t do you know that PVC PVC commonly used oh yeah when it’s burn creates situation of a dioxin dioxin is that was the big argument why they quit doing the sugar cane well but it’s really a significant
08:16
thing because it dioxin is only one major toxic thing that virtually all the properties there had there have been estimates based on the buildings of how much has accumulated these are what they call accumulating time when those when those are burned they don’t stay they blow away but some of them do they do but some of them don’t and that’s the reason and and yeah testing testing takes well you see testing for dioxin is a very specializ thing huge and takes time to get the answers but also over time in different
08:52
environmental catastrophes like this one they have a track record to know this from the past the things that you’re asking asking for are being done now they are the same thing happened in Paradise California but are we supposed to wait until we get the result yeah you’re right there were dioxins in there six months ago you should have stopped why are you still moving it why are you doing this why you’re diluting it so it reads lower so that you can somehow substantiate that yeah it wasn’t that
09:21
level wasn’t that high I don’t think that’s your intention but I am clear that when you move Ash and you mix twice as much or more additional dirt with it and now you’re going to have to carry all of that to another location you’re making much more the mayor in his little thing about what he was going to do with this ash talked about 136 truckloads a day for 300 days I called it almost a year oh yeah well now if you double or triple the volume cuz you’re temporarily moving into a place right first of all
09:53
that doesn’t have enough room to hold the triple that you just talked about and now you’re going to move on on these delicate highways that are going to be destroyed now take 300 make it 900 days you’re talking almost three years but why did you move it at all when you could have moved it locally boxed it up and science is not without answers that were presented that’s my my big thing is that I believe that the mayor doesn’t really get the kind of advice that he needs the EPA and the um um Army Corps
10:27
of Engineers and FEMA you know the information if you dig down in their books is where these things come up and where we’ve seen the things that were presented but they they already had their agenda and plan in place and moved on it and didn’t do things what is their agenda their agenda is to be safe and to impact the least number of people while honoring the people that live there and want to get them back on their well that’s a no that’s a noble thing yes and I would say that that’s absolutely
10:58
logistically speaking trying to do that but would you let people back to something if you understood that just having them go back on that land cleared partially by your measure that was supposed to get them back sooner going to kill them I I think the argument that they’re they’re using in this case is well if your two of your neighbor’s homes burned down does that mean you can’t live next door well again if you see yeah again this that you just said because and I understand it there’s so much Med
11:29
how do you know which media is the one to listen to well we don’t listen we should listen to real scientists both sides no there’s more than scientists are political that’s what we’ve really come to understand the last 10 years but we also know that the truth is the truth and science is science maybe you think that we can get everything to read the way we want it to read for a different purpose and that may be the political you’re talking about but when it comes down to 911 that was how many years ago
11:56
23 years ago that’s amaz 2 yeah it’s crazy 23 years ago so and they’re still dialing that in and they’re still having people sick and that they dial in the why and they come back to the why yeah why because of what came off that fire and what was left there and how they handled it they call Super funds you know what super funds means it means they spend a super amount of FS to bundle these things so millions and millions of people won’t die that’s in places on the mainland including 9/11 so
12:27
are we creating another thing here like that in a in a sacred some people said oh yes I love when the mayor says look we talked to this this group and they said that this is cleared as a Hawaiian site and we spoke to this group and they say it’s cleared as an environmental site excuse me excuse me let me see your science big talkers and you may think that because you were the chief judge and chief prosecutor that you’re above the law you sound like Donald Trump but I know that there are those that are
13:00
going to say you killed my son my daughter back in Linda lingle’s day when they were taking dirt and moving it from one place to another dirt land soil was moved into the parkks and one of those guys had kids Ralph matal of campaign recycle Maui had a child that got cancer another rare cancer and again they follow it back to soil that was put in there by the county so someone’s going to catch this and our mayor is going to be saying oh I did what was best for everyone are not there he’s weighing everything Jason
13:40
I I I I would hate to be in his so would I but I would stop everything right now because and they would be lynching you they’d be lynching you somewhere those people that want to get back on their properties there there’s a balance well again I agree with you but if you knew that the people that were trying to Lynch you if you could could show them that going back on their property would kill them and all their people you think they might address it differently you would have to you would
14:08
have to make such an incredible argument where is why is no one making this argument why Department ofth I love when you say this because you say nobody has a love don’t you love that are you stepping into I’m I’m loading the question for you Jason you know I’m I don’t have to be the expert cuz the experts we’re here in akaku put out a 5our place for a zoom to be held by the people’s Council of Maui Olu ALU Branch scene and they were talking about the cultural importance for them and then
14:43
they talked about all kinds of things then they brought the scientists on they didn’t bring one scientist or two or three or four the Department of Health guy he was swallowed up at the beginning what he said by the time you get to the scientists you’re like well why are we not doing these things that are cheaper that makes sense why why why mayor Bon you’re welcome to the show this is a call-in talk show although I have to figure out where everything’s going to light up when you guys call 808 it’s
15:11
right on the screen to who’s watching on TV 808 873 3435 that’s always the call in here at akaku excuse me no no no k a KU 88.5 FM the voice of Maui The Voice you by the way did you hear that little spot talking about cooko it is clear that AI artificial intelligence is being used and they’re using voices but when you call about laa and cooko you know and I know that we’re replacing people with artificial what are we going to do with all these people maybe get them to do the research and share that research
15:52
with people they love I mean at the airport every time I use the check in that says oh check in here at this machine you you don’t want to go to those people I wonder why the people are standing there they’re saying oh yeah use the machine keep using the machine soon you won’t see me and you won’t have me pointing to the machine Kaiser you go into Kaiser oh look at these machines I like those because if I’m late I could go right to the machine that’s awesome what are we do with these people we’re
16:18
replacing our people with machines well and the scary part is I called into um oh lord it’s one of my healthc care people and it was referred to a uh automated AI whatever is I thought I was talking to a person holy crap they’re good yes it sounds real by the way hold crap as far as you can go on your vocabulary stretch today I know I’m not on Jo Rogan okay we’re there oh now there’s a guy who I would like sitting here or maybe we you know he he has a love of the islands I’ll tell you
16:52
he really does yeah well what would he say well you know he actually talked on his show well he actually talked on his show the other day about our overpopulation of deer and pigs on the island he actually brought that up in one of his podcasts about two weeks ago you think if those deer or pigs eat some of this toxic Ash that that won’t translate into a problem it is right I Jason it’s just I you hear scientists on both sides but we haven’t we’ve only gotten government appointed heard I love
17:22
that well we’ve got we’ve got we’ve got we’ve got government appointed scientists I would like for the people of Hawaii that aren’t part of the government to hire their own people and get a objective thing here when if you watch akaku you will see a five hour show yo I keep telling them it’s too long and I’m going to pieces and try our Spotlight because I’m not talking about things that I make up you asked for scientists that were hired by people that I’ll give you a specific example
17:53
may I yes there’s a farmer named Eddie Garcia yes Eddie you know Eddie I know the name okay Eddie Garcia owns the farm it may be the same one that Dale Gardener own right there at bottom ofan Poco right right right above there is where we’re talking about all this waste and all the water coming down so Eddie spent $40,000 a him group yeah and got information from all kinds of places the EPA all kinds of experts Clean Harbors all kinds of people in Oregon and Washington and and you know what they’re
18:25
on they’re on this thing you can see and listen to them and their reports were already in the hands of the Council of the mayor before now they had a public meeting did they bring it up at the public meeting well Gabe Johnson talked about bio remediation yeah and the mayor and the oh well my experts tell me that after we move the ash that’s when we do bio remediation Al so that means after 300 days after almost a year you’re going to do that instead of doing Bia mayor you are not talking right you’re
18:59
not talking science never mind the fact that there’s a hole in your argument right now I tried to find an environmental lawyer through the Hawaii State Bar they gave me one name I called left a message message comes back that they can’t be my attorney and then I realized why cuz he represents them that’s the only name they have environmental referrals from the State Bar there you go so when you say the maybe there we should there you go there you go so so here we go we’re trying to
19:29
so in trying to defend the powers that be the powers that be don’t have the resources and then when things are put out to them they don’t make it their priority to view it check to see if it’s real they’ve been invited to go see these facilities in different places across the country so but why haven’t they done that because their Department of remediation and Recovery you created a whole department you’re paying all kinds of people really great work may you have to really realize there are
19:59
going to be loud mouths like me who have nothing to lose that have nothing to lose why because I’ve been talking about what’s not been happening here since I got here in 88 but Jason let’s go back ways let’s go back to when Pioneer closed the doors let’s do that let’s do that what Pioneer you mean Pioneer sugar Pioneer sugar Ander when was that roughly 1999 okay okay a a a grandfather fellow that I had met when I was running the L Family Farm he was already a grandfather he he was
20:30
very old man okay and he was telling me story and he says you know you got to maintain all the water bars above L to make sure the water gets saturated into the ground same problem that’s happening in ki right now we’re getting water because all the water bars have not been maintained the water saturation ground saturation would have happened everything would have stayed Greener so for 24 years we set ourselves up for one Mass runoff two when math water isn’t held in the ground by the water bars and
21:34
church the Catholic church in L was built Marana Le was built so that it wouldn’t burn because they burn that’s a good reason it didn’t burn yeah they knew they knew back then they needed to build it in case they had another bad cane fire that would take out the entire place so somebody learned but everybody forgot okay we don’t have Kane everything goes feral you know those big rock piles those used to be nice lines to to make sure the water would slowly come off the hill when we do get good
22:01
water that hasn’t happened since before 1999 cuz sugar was going broke same thing with Baldwin they used above the hills above Kei and above everywhere on W side they used to have that ditched and trenched so the water had time to soak in and the ground and our water groundwater was taken care of Lina fire was just a tragedy that we was coming that we were lining up for lining up for we were ignoring it we’re ignoring it ignoring it so besides being an additional issue I hope that the county and the state have
22:36
unlimited Pockets unless we’re not allowed to sue them but how many ways can you spell no one’s taking care of the issues that’s out of control nonresponsibility or no one in that department that knew that how could that be because Baldwin took care of it but I mean Pioneer took care of and when they left the land and they said oh great we’re not going to be burning can Fields it’s going to be wonderful nobody’s going like what were they doing up there besides burning canefields they
23:09
were aggregating and making sure that they had water bars all the way across if you look at any ancient site where they terce the ground that was to catch the water when we do get water l or Piner was doing that Baldwin was doing that cnh has done it they make sure that when we do get rains they get the maximum saturation and everybody was since there was no money being made off land nobody was doing it this isn’t something you just do for fun this is something they did to make sure that they had good saturation and good cane
23:43
and good product especially for pineapple I mean you used to look at the pineapples above um Dr Fleming’s place out towards honai those were just beautiful teris Fields going up there and they had bars and you know when you drove up the road or you I used to run up there back in the 80s and you’d run you go over big BMS because they had those BMS to catch the rainfall when it came I remember walking up those BMS that was on my walking path years ago yeah was really beautiful Dusty red beautiful dirt but they had You’ run up
24:15
there and you go whoa going over one then you go over another up the hill and you go over another because they made those to catch the water that’s to catch the groundwater how come they don’t hire sophisticated knowledgeable people like yourself cuz you need a freaking dirt bag farmer to figure out what they’ve known how to do but nobody’s listening to them dirt bag Farmers how many dirt bag Farmers spent $40,000 putting together report for public consumption that gets not viewed that
24:42
get told the information they have is bogus and not real science so all you people that keep evaluating that these people aren’t real these people have had practical uh experience in the field for 20 years and more you know when I was young by the way this was a little bit severe I I I didn’t recognize Jason when I came in today I was like oh God J you all right you’ve been in the hospital his Beard’s gone my beard is gone I was using a razor it said had 13 different little Clips so I said oh that means I can do
25:19
my hair all the way down to the beard so I tried one about a third up I don’t know what to do with the other ones I think they probably rip your skin off at the same time as sh because this is what came out from three up from the bottom that’s like wait a minute this looks pretty short there you go and then I sort of got sort of I just figured you were at the Super Bowl and you wanted to you know get dressed oh that’s right I was like Jason Kelce there you go you know going take my shirt off and what
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was he was doing all kinds of stu oh Lord that’s a that was yesterday February 11th that was an exciting game that was fun I know I always like to say to people they always love it I hope that the team that you love wins the Super Bowl man what a fun game everyone it was it was I I honestly I I’m not a big you know I follow hockey follow the Portland Trailblazers uh I follow some g-league teams to watch the guys coming through the ranks but G League G League man yeah you know that means ABC the G
26:19
no no it’s just still League below the NBA oh yeah why they the G League yeah I don’t know G I think it’s growth league so they’re growing okay growing they they water them well and make the guys grow up to 8 ft you know and they have water what do you call them water burms what well check dams water burms so if water falls on the side of of a plane and it’s going to slide right to the bottom if you can make it go this way or that way or this way back and forth it grabs saturation or check dams they call
26:49
them so after big fires and in in knowing that I was a wildland firefighter and I my my property in New Mexico on the Valdes caldero um there was a huge fire it almost hook out Los Al almost in Mexico like hundreds of homes were lost excuse me after that Department of State lands Bureau of Indian Affairs um Los Angeles National Laboratory brought in uh restoration people to make sure that that since there’s no longer Timber there’s no longer grass on it they wanted to do that kind of restoration
27:24
that is commonplace boiler plate what you do after a fire if you change Farmland to feral land and it’s where you have high runoff areas they normally do that somehow we kind of dropped the ball because everybody was so excited that they weren’t going to be burning cane fields that we didn’t realize what else that Baldwin and Pioneer and cnh were doing on the lands up there does it matter who we is I I I’m part of that I mean I’ve been here you know I is it the water the Department that should know that should
28:00
the people that sold it tell should the fire the sugar people say look when you buy this land you better be aware it’s going to be a Tinder Box if you don’t do this this this and this that gentleman that bought the freezers off the farm that day who knew that Tim brother Tim’s farm that he bought was Rock Ranch and said Scott you need if you’re taking care of the farm up here you need to watch the fire danger you’re at the top of Lon Poco if something catches fire up here you’re going to be responsible for
28:26
the entire cuz no nobody’s doing what we used to do and this was really I love it when people that lived here generationally talk and he was telling me about I Scott I went to meetings I told them and I would go to these water meetings because I was going to water meetings because that’s when the free wat act came in and they were not allowing a lot of the real agriculture up bubani Coco to draw off the res or Draw off The Creeks he says you’ve you we’ve got to do that we’ve got to catch all the water
28:57
if if you live on the other side of the island where you have your own catchment systems for your drinking water and irrigation and plumbing they get it but they get a lot more water over there over here we need to go back and terce after the after the sugarcane was gone they plowed everything flat and now it’s a racetrack when a drop of water hits up above the dirt line it’s a race to the ocean and my live in that mud hole I had two vehicles that got damaged in the last keii flood I’m like come on
29:30
people it’s it’s simple it’s I mean if you talk to anybody that works for us Forest Service you talk to anybody that works for so you’re a guy that has experience why aren’t they hearing you well I finally made it I’m going to go to the next key meeting um I haven’t been doing that I’ve I been taking care of my own health issues so you know no but what I really mean is and I’m not picking on you cuz just speaking on this show this is going out to millions of people billions billions J
30:00
billions the fact is you can share these they’re up on Maui neutral zone.com they all live on YouTube someday when I die if they turn off my accounts we’re going to lose so we have to support archive.org and some that exists but it does but now what good is archiving all this stuff if we don’t do anything about it I’m so tired of talking about things for 35 years I came to Maui with experience I came with experience and I had my I’m allow to say balls I my balls cut off by the political machine that
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cut me off at the visitors bureau in 19 you’re allowed to say balls it could be a basketball there go cut off because the media why is the media not covering this show well maybe follow the money Jason next time you’re on if not before we’re going to pick up the bat phone I guess that one I have a friend call the mayor and invite him publicly cuz people say well why don’t you have the mayor on how come the mayor isn’t on we’re going to have Gabe Johnson on and I’m Happ
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Gabe Johnson one of our Council people never mind he was one of two only that voted against the olao site even as a temporary dumping site you know I love and trust that all the people in the world are going to at some point realize that their number one travel destination Maui has been threatened because they not taking so what are we doing we’re killing the Golden Goose here I there are so many difficult complex questions well that one’s pretty big it is and then there’s money involved in that whenever money talks
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and money moves and money gets people elected you know that Jason no but I’m I’m afraid that that’s not enough it’s not enough not enough no we’re seeing election we’re seeing elections look at that there’s a there was this really powerful candidate over in Russia who looked like he was going to threaten Putin in the next election you know what they did jailed him or killed him no they wouldn’t let him get on the ballot my God that must not be a democracy over there I love Scott is so sneaky that was
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sneaky you talking about sneaky Trump no I’m I’m still I’m still a Bobby Kennedy man you know that you know that you see that see that but I think that Trump is I loved in uh in Nevada Nikki Haley lost two other other oh my God that had to hurt two to one other oh I know I had a hurt yeah you know we stay on Maui because we got enough controversy to never look at anyone else that thing about you know why what is it why are you picking on someone else and trying to put a stick in their eye I was biblical yeah when
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you didn’t take that thing pull that 2×4 out of your brain there you go well I I’m afraid that uh I’m having fun with this but you know what is most fun that no matter how we look at this we’re right and we’re going to go after the world and I sadly I like rck Bisson he seems like a guy who plays a really mean ukulele yeah and his singing and he was a judge for many years and a chief prosecutor you know we don’t want to get into the muck and mire of what’s going on here in government because as a
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reporter people come to me with stories that will knock your socks right off involving people that you already know and many of you love and support there are I mean I’ll just bring up I’m afraid to bring up names we won’t talk about those Jason stories I don’t want to be in any cane fields that means sincerely that was a thing there are that was a thing there have been people nominated that have um it’s very scary because there are real people who have real life stories that
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are still alive like your guy has been living around for years a lot of people have been living here for years and remember P personally firsthand experiences with some of the people that now are in power mhm I’ve heard many people that were already put in jail by Rick Bisson said they really thought he was a very Fair judge yeah I work at I work I work over at the they renamed the jail but uh I work over it they did it’s the uh Hawaii correctional and rehabilitation center I think is the new
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name I well I like mcccc yeah they they’re they’re taking on a new um Matra and they’re going to try to do a lot more rehab work I’m working on a presentation for that for them takes a lot of Staff yes uh no so it doesn’t take a lot of Staff it takes the staff they have to take a new look at how they’re running the facility they they got good people I mean they got I I take my hat off they have people over there working sometimes 70 80 hours a week I don’t know how they do it why you
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know CU they can’t get people that want to work now that seems impossible it’s not an easy not unless you’ve worked inside a correctional facility um like I have it’s like it’s a culture onto itself and and some people have such a stigma to that that they’re afraid to do that kind of work which once you get into that kind of work you’re going like it’s like going to work and and it’s like when I tell the guys that are in there because we work on you know all kinds of skills I says well on your
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resume you just say well I live in a gated community for the last 20 years a gated community you know and try to make the best of that cuz you know we’re getting out after 20 30 40 years some of them and re-entering and it’s like um I think I was lucky because when I was working in that field mostly I was in Oregon which has some of the best Correctional um programs in the country they actually quite a few places go there to see their how they do their in-house Rehabilitation they do their
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in-house group meetings things like that so the guys have an opportunity to share um and they again the culture if you’ve got a which I have I’ve had guys that have a lot of affiliations outside of the island and they sometimes intimidate and so I have known my feeling over the last years is the guys that are from here live here and grew up here are some of the greatest people I have met that have just gotten off track but I’ve also heard of those same canefield stories that you speak of that there if
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the island will take care of itself I think we saw that right after the fire people wanted to take care of Maui get the heck out of my way we can handle it and then all of a sudden we have this Deluge of all these people from well-meaning people I’m not saying they’re not and and I I’m just like if that happened and there were no federal government involvement where would we be today would we already be rebuilding would have things gotten handled more quickly those are questions at some those those are things are P 20
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years from now well you mean all the dead people would Ponder we we shouldn’t we learn when we see toxic burn that we shouldn’t be moving back on we can’t be this isolated and then we get help from other places but we don’t listen to the advice from other places no I’m not saying that Jason I said but we we I’m saying that the people here are smart enough smart are smart and they will figure it out and if you get out of their way I have a couple people I know that lost their homes that their
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insurance company’s not paying because they said that that F was supposed to pay and now nobody’s paying and they’re sitting there going like what the hell is that right excuse me yeah so when you create an so what do they do what are they doing they’re they’re frustrated they’re angry they want to go in and just take a shovel and a wheelbarrow and get it going they’re they’re they’re hurting they’re hurting very badly and they want it to happen and I think I I want to believe the best of
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everyone that’s trying to do this that they want to get those people safely back on their ground as fast as they can and maybe they’re doing that I don’t know but there’s a lot of pain out there yeah but when you say safely yeah I know you kind of discounted the fact that this Department of Health it’s worth hearing the words and hearing him say Well let me tell you a story if you have one thing if you have two bad things you get that combination this combination if you have three bad things that that that
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you’re seven have four now you’re at 10,000 you’re at five you get into the trillions and and the if you know that you’re going to put people back on land well you talked about the PBC okay you talked about that okay we burned 500 800 miles of that every time we burn the fields for the last 35 40 years and nobody said a thing about it well again we’re saying it yeah now you’re saying it now we’re saying it and we’re saying it in a concentrated burn that’s way
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more than 5 to 800 miles and but besides that I’m in no way no way discounting the fact that we want to help the people there right to be going back to a safe place not at all yeah and I and I I I think mayor Bon and I think the folks and I it’s God forbid you ever see me getting on board with any government agency that’s just not who I am but I I hope that they’re doing the best they can with what they have to work with and I know they’re they’re trying to balance this but um balance it with what they’re
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trying to expedient and also be safe and also deal with the toxins and I think they probably one guy said well I can get it done in a week and other guy said I can get it done in six years and then somewhere they met in the middle and it’s it’s the way government works is so frustrating and then they get a bid from one they get a bid from another and they’re weighing all these options and maybe the best is I honestly think what I what I read and what I listened to about what your fellow talked about
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about onsite I that’s brilliant I mean but where are we at to can we do that tomorrow yes can we okay that that’s and that’s that’s what that was my takeaway from what I listened to from your show yeah yeah we could do that tomorrow yeah and you know they could do that individually because of the fact that you can do it in stages this money issue doesn’t become as much of a money where is all that money well again I’m trying to tell you you wonder about the government how they’re doing it the they
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haven’t really been listening or they’ve been listening they are not listening well where is I mean are they accounting for all these spendings I mean I don’t know I don’t they must be I’m sure you know the the I like what’s her name Kyo Martin said oh yeah I thought it was very funny follow the money or somebody else said follow the money who gets paid from these jobs I don’t think that these people that are getting paid for these jobs think about that I don’t think
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they’re running the show and maybe it’s their bosses and their bosses and and who can maybe all that stuff exists but the bottom line is if to me the bottom line is we shouldn’t be sending people back into a toxic Wasteland because they want to identify their property and everything around is not being handled except Wednesdays and Tuesday do you know if they were questioned Jason of what was on their property doesn’t matter what I’m I’m just curious I’m I I mean I’m going to
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ask a couple people next week please do please do you see yeah that’s why Scott is a reporter in the field cuz I people come at me but I know they know me too well so they come at me with loaded things yeah you know it’s like people come at me with Solutions and I you know I don’t have the level of digging but you do yeah I’m I’m just saying if if I owned a property I if I had a home over there and everything me myself one I would have a a very good accounting of everything I have there because that’s
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just the way the world in insurance companies work and I lived on my Ranch for 15 years which was in a high danger zone for forest fire back in New Mexico back in New Mexico on the Calera uh beautiful you know and I learned from people who did lose property that you have to have an absolute accounting of everything and uh yeah we’ve if it were copper pipe in every one of those houses um and that was pretty generally used and then they did just there they don’t even know and this is what I’m also
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hearing from local people it’s like well the insurance company said that now I can only have a two-bedroom one B house on my property and we had four families living there because we had lived there for the last 150 years and added on and added on and added on before anybody was paying attention no good again China will not be built back the same absolutely not and all those situations that had a lot of people living inside little tiny little things that were broken BR into little tiny little I lived my most
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memorable times were lived when I lived at 14 14 Front Street mhm 88 889 but back when oh I was there was a little shower you could stumble home and then the owner decided you know I can take that shower in the back that I share they share with the back little bedroom and I can build another unit back there oh and then I can put another one over here yeah it was just a bunch of little cubby holes and a lot of those were built before we were born a lot of those and they never really kept track all that a lot of that
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was stick built it was post and mortar built which uh in a wildfire situation is just like lightting a match because you’ve got air under the house for air conditioning pest control everything else a lot of a lot of old um so now you’re going to move these people that want those places back in the way they want them back and no and and there there’s the pain that I’m hearing oh yeah that’s huge pain imagine if you were in Gaza or if you were in Israel or in Syria or in Ukraine I mean we don’t
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have to we can’t even take care of our we can’t even take care of now that there are things going on where hundreds of people die in a fire is that discounting what happened to Lina you hear around the world huge fires that kill many people oh Africa there there’s more people dying in wars in Africa and fire than anywhere else in the world we never even read about you never even hear about it no there’s no money involved what do they do for cleanup they take care of their own yeah and
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then they die and then we create our nice medical system it’s interest you know well we don’t go down that road no but these roads are I mean if I start on medical system I could park this issue we’re talking hey we do we’re doing okay for time we got 10 minutes well how about this one over this weekend I ended up calling 911 and having ambulance come out TW I live in a senior facility oh okay I figured he just ran out of gin my neighbor was screaming help help help help no I didn’t hear it because I
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wasn’t listening for it and I wasn’t home but I get home people say he’s right next door to you why don’t you and so I go by and he I said you need help yes is it medical yes he wanted me to help well I can’t help cuz the rules don’t allow me to help or I’ll have a problem so I called his one of his caregivers she says call 911 that’s what I did two weeks ago they came and they pumped his stomach because he tried to kill himself with alcohol and pills so they have a history of someone who’s
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trying to kill himself with aloh pills he’s calling for help help help they send another emergency the emergency think they come in the next day I end up calling 911 again and when they come they call me afterwards and they say well we couldn’t you didn’t want to leave the property there his rights we can’t take him off the property so he’s putting everybody in the place inconvenience at Jeopardy today he doesn’t want his caregiver to do the laundry he’s going to burn it on his
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balcony yeah I’m just talking to you so now where are the providers where are the facilities where are the people that are protecting anybody that we Clos them all so what do we do we Clos down all the State Mental Health Facilities across the country so we do have people in charge don’t they need to they they they they became unpopular you know One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest yeah right after that period And I I did uh I did some uh a training in actually that facility later when it was turned into
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something different but we don’t have any State Health mental health facilities like we used to the hospitals had to pick up the the slack on that well way in the hospital I have another person who needs a place to live can’t find it yeah and they I went to the hospital to say goodbye because they gave her three days if she doesn’t move out in 3 days they’re going to bring it to a shelter she’s been looking for a place she’s been in the hospital since early November and I never heard of a
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level zero patient what does that mean that means that this person is so much trouble that we have a constant problem with them I went to visit them their bed the power was pulled out of the wall on their bed and their communication I thought that was pretty crazy until I spoke to the nurse and the supervisor this person is constantly in constant turmoil with the staff they have nowhere to do it so it’s a different place same problem as we we closed all those facilities we closed them all so what do
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we do now I think we really need to re-evaluate the whole thing who’s we the well the island on it I mean who’s going to pay for it someone’s got to be in charge is it the mayor yeah sort of kind of the Govern we voted we voted everyone in it’s our it’s we made the decision by either voting for or against something but we also are are not wanting to spend the money it takes what about these very wealthy people when they’re giving money to get when you give $ 250 million or
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100 million or to a place like Catholic Charities of Hawaii or Maui Family Life Center and they can only spend it in certain ways the needs are here and before they’re building some nice long-term facility there’s emergencies that have to be addressed right and that’s a really tough thing $250 million but you can’t spend it on on helping people now because there are strings attached you have to build permanent structures I know people work for those and they’re doing some really good stuff
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yeah but you can imagine there also H there there’s money to help people pay for rent but there’s no place for them to rent your news is not new news not and it’s not news for the last 55 years so we are not getting anywhere look up there and see if that says 9 minutes or 3 minutes I am showing 11:50 my neck doesn’t work Jason it’s okay well then don’t look I think it says nine I see say 11:53 on my watch okay so well I’m going to keep talking until they come in and say hey Jason you got three minutes
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buddy oh yeah they they they should get a Gong for you just gong you well you know I mean I really sincerely uh I had one 2 minutes 52 seconds see I can see certain things wow that’s we have three minutes he had select Jason has selective hearing too he told me about that earlier today oh yeah they checked my hearing and my hearing the area in my in my ear that I can hear well is the range of a woman’s voice so I’m perfect for my partner because I don’t hear what she says and she has no problem with me
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because I don’t hear anything I hear nothing I see nothing yeah I see okay Schultz Schultz guys maybe we’ll call you Schult shorts Schultz Show is that from Hogan’s Heroes Hogan’s Heroes if young people don’t look it up you got to look it up yeah now you’re sitting here we have two minutes I want you to know next week we’re not here it’s the 19th but you can look at Maui neutral zone.com and see this show then you can go back one more show and see me talk an hour about Ola Walo then you go back
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another show and you see Eddie Garcia and Leo Martin on here talking about Ola wallo when we come back we’re going to have more people talking about Ola walloo until we stop this or we uh have an environmental attorney who’s stopped this I’m going to be talking about this and we have Bobby Kennedy the world’s most famous yeah but he’s environmental attorney he’s en well yeah look the mayor puts out a little things say Maui toxic controversy and all they talk about it is justifying why they’re doing
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what they’re doing bringing up none of the negatives and that’s supposed to be their PR about the controversy and what I think I I think I figured it out the other day Jason we’re all on this bus everybody’s been sleeping in the back seat they finally woke up and went who’s driving and where are we going I’m we not getting where I want to go remember those guys years ago fireside chat fire we love those fire they had we’re all bozos on this bus now we’re going to
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have to say we’re all Bezos on this bus cuz Jeff Bezos needs to get involved more directly in fact Jeff if you come over with Lauren you’re welcome to come visit you can sit here if you want or we can do a show anyway you’d like well if you want to talk to me I’ll talk to you too you know here we only have 30 seconds so SC our Bush Nelly it’s been good to have you everyone it’s always good to have you I hope that you will share this show as broadly and widely as you can and realize that that 21 seconds
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I bet we’re going to be short because of that original long commercial so I could extend it but we can cut it off at the right time and we’ll put it all together in the mix thank you all for joining us we hope to see you again in two weeks it’s always a pleasure we’re at the neutral zone thank you for watching thank you for listening now please be involved blessings everyone
