MauiNeutralZone – DOH Maui Head Lorrin Pang – WHY People Should Take COVID Vaccine– 4 29 2021
Summary & Timestamped Full Transcript Below…
- [00:00 → 02:05]
Introduction and Context - Host Jason Schwartz welcomes Dr. Lorrin Pang, head of Maui’s Department of Health, for an urgent discussion on COVID-19 vaccination and public health challenges in Maui as of April 29, 2021.
- Key message: There is a significant problem with filling vaccination appointments despite abundant vaccine supply due to vaccine hesitancy.
- Dr. Pang notes that many people feel overwhelmed by repeated health arguments for vaccination and have already made their decisions. However, she introduces new, critical reasons to reconsider vaccination.
- Three primary reasons to get vaccinated:
- Public health necessity: Achieving herd immunity through vaccination or infection.
- Convenience and practical benefits: Avoiding quarantine and travel restrictions.
- Protection against Long COVID: Preventing long-term debilitating symptoms.
- Initially, herd immunity was estimated at around 66-70% immune, but due to emerging variants, the threshold has risen to approximately 85% or higher.
- [02:05 → 07:40]
Variant Impact on Herd Immunity and Transmission - Variants of concern increase transmissibility and severity, complicating the path to herd immunity.
- Maui’s variant landscape:
Variant Origin Increased Transmissibility Over Original COVID-19 Notes California Variant USA (California) ~25% more transmissible Makes up ~85% of Maui cases UK Variant England ~55% more transmissible Present in Hawaii, under monitoring Brazilian Variant (P1) Brazil/Japan ~250% more transmissible Rapid spread in Canada (Whistler, Ottawa, Winnipeg) - The Brazilian variant (P1) is particularly alarming for its explosive spread and high transmissibility (250% increase). This variant’s presence is concerning because many visitors come from Canada and other regions with P1 circulation.
- Testing protocols for travelers:
- Pre-travel negative PCR testing is required but not foolproof due to incubation periods; some travelers test positive only after arrival.
- Estimated that for every 1,000 travelers with a negative pre-travel test, approximately 7 are positive upon arrival (due to incubation or false negatives).
- These factors underscore the urgency to raise vaccination coverage to 85% or above to control spread against these variants.
- [07:40 → 10:40]
Vaccination Challenges and Convenience Benefits - Children are not yet eligible for vaccination, limiting achievable coverage in the near term.
- The vaccine is about 95% effective, so even vaccinated populations will have a residual susceptible group (~5%).
- Beyond public health, convenience benefits encourage vaccination:
- Vaccinated individuals can avoid quarantine after exposure, reducing disruption at workplaces and households.
- Proof of vaccination may soon replace the need for frequent COVID testing in travel and local regulations.
- CDC guidance allows vaccinated individuals to forgo masks in fully vaccinated groups, especially outdoors, enhancing comfort and normalcy.
- However, mask-wearing remains advised in mixed vaccination-status settings and indoor environments to mitigate risk.
- The vaccine remains effective against most variants currently circulating, though there is ongoing monitoring. Dr. Pang compares this to annual flu vaccines—vaccination should be accepted now despite potential future variant-specific formulations.
- [10:40 → 19:53]
Long COVID (Long Haulers) Explained - Long COVID, also called chronic COVID or long haulers, refers to persistent symptoms lasting months after acute infection, even in mild cases.
- Approximately 30% of COVID-19 patients under 50 who were never hospitalized experience some form of long COVID; about 10% of these have symptoms lasting beyond five months.
- Symptoms are thought to be immune-mediated rather than ongoing infection; damage occurs as the immune system attacks nerves and other tissues.
- Nervous system symptoms include:
- Loss of smell and taste
- Tinnitus (ringing in ears)
- Breathing difficulties (subjective sensation)
- Heart palpitations (vagus nerve involvement)
- Gastrointestinal upset (also vagus nerve)
- Sleep disturbances and chronic fatigue (brainstem involvement)
- Cognitive impairment (“brain fog”) such as difficulty organizing or concentrating
- The severity varies; some experience life-altering fatigue and weakness akin to chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS).
- Dr. Ron Davis (Stanford) has developed a diagnostic test for CFS, and research suggests some long COVID cases may share mechanisms with CFS.
- Treatment approaches for chronic fatigue, such as avoiding pushing patients to overexert, may apply to long COVID as well; overexertion can worsen symptoms.
- Vaccination prevents 95% of cases and thus also reduces the risk of developing long COVID.
- The medical community acknowledges the seriousness of long COVID, though consensus on causes and treatments remains incomplete.
- Depression and PTSD symptoms can overlap but do not fully explain long COVID’s physical and cognitive impairments.
- [19:53 → 26:44]
Public Health Concerns and Variants: The Urgency to Vaccinate - Concerns about vaccine hesitancy and fraud (e.g., fake vaccine cards) threaten public health efforts; fraud penalizes those legitimately vaccinated by complicating verification and control measures.
- Unvaccinated individuals remain at risk of severe disease, especially with more transmissible and virulent variants like the UK variant, which increases hospitalization and mortality risk by approximately 55-60%.
- The Indian variant is described as “monstrous” with multiple mutations, potentially more transmissible and severe; many variants circulate globally, complicating control efforts.
- Variants compete; the most transmissible and fit become dominant, e.g., Maui’s 85% California variant dominance, but introduction of Brazilian or Indian variants could change this.
- Dr. Pang urges vaccination despite concerns about evolving variants, emphasizing that current vaccines reduce spread and variant emergence.
- Personal anecdotes illustrate how some initially vaccine-hesitant individuals changed their minds after witnessing COVID severity and complications firsthand.
- Vaccines differ and should be considered on a case-by-case basis rather than blanket rejection of all vaccines or drugs.
- [26:44 → 32:54]
Healthcare Worker Perspectives and Emotional Toll - Healthcare workers frequently communicate and share concerns about COVID-19 management and public behavior.
- Doctors express frustration and emotional exhaustion, describing the pandemic as a “death wish” or “scorched earth” scenario when people ignore guidance.
- They do not wish harm but regret when preventable outbreaks occur and use these as teaching moments to encourage behavior change.
- This dynamic parallels parental or caregiving experiences: warnings are given, but consequences still happen, which can be used constructively.
- The healthcare community faces burnout from continuous stress, patient deaths, and public resistance, leading some to leave the field.
- Smoking is used as an analogy: patients who continue harmful behaviors despite warnings show similar challenges in public health messaging.
- [32:54 → 37:23]
Travel, Exposure, and Quarantine Management - Travel-related COVID management is challenging. Travelers who test positive despite safe travel protocols cause extended quarantines for themselves and exposed companions.
- Example case: a traveler arriving positive extended his family’s stay by 14 days, causing financial hardship but also gratitude for health protection.
- Dr. Pang implemented a rapid testing protocol to allow negative-exposed family members limited outdoor access during quarantine, improving mental health and compliance.
- Increasing visitor volumes strain public health capacity to manage exposures and quarantine logistics.
- Vaccination simplifies these issues by exempting vaccinated individuals from quarantine after exposure, reducing conflict and operational burden.
- Vaccinated people are much less likely to carry or transmit the virus, justifying relaxed restrictions for this group.
- [37:23 → 38:40]
Closing Remarks and Final Urges - Dr. Pang urges those who have not yet had COVID or the vaccine to choose vaccination to protect themselves from acute COVID, long COVID, and to help community health.
- She highlights the example of Kalani English, who suffered long COVID before vaccines were available, reinforcing the unpredictability and severity of post-COVID complications.
- The conversation ends with a call to action: vaccination is the best available tool to prevent ongoing spread, severe illness, and long-term disability from COVID-19.
Key Insights and Takeaways
- Vaccine hesitancy remains a major barrier despite abundant supply; new reasons to vaccinate include convenience and preventing long COVID.
- Herd immunity threshold has risen to ~85% or higher due to more transmissible variants (California 25%, UK 55%, Brazilian 250%).
- Pre-travel testing has limitations; some infected travelers still enter, seeding outbreaks.
- Vaccinated individuals benefit from exemptions to quarantine and mask mandates in certain settings, improving quality of life and economic activity.
- Long COVID affects roughly 30% of non-hospitalized patients under 50; symptoms range from mild brain fog to debilitating chronic fatigue and nerve damage.
- Vaccination prevents most cases and long COVID; delaying vaccination risks variant spread and worsening outbreaks.
- Healthcare workers face emotional burnout but focus on using outbreaks as teachable moments rather than wishing harm.
- Travel and quarantine protocols remain complex; vaccination simplifies these and reduces transmission risk.
- Ongoing vigilance needed as new variants (Indian, Brazilian) emerge with unknown impacts on vaccine efficacy.
Glossary of Terms
| Term | Definition |
|---|---|
| Herd Immunity | The point at which enough people are immune (via vaccination or infection) to stop virus spread. |
| Variant | A mutated form of the virus with different transmissibility, severity, or immune escape properties. |
| Long COVID | Persistent symptoms lasting months after initial COVID-19 infection, including fatigue, brain fog, and nerve damage. |
| Vagus Nerve | A cranial nerve involved in heart rate, digestion, and respiratory sensation affected by long COVID. |
| Brain Fog | Cognitive difficulties such as poor concentration and memory lapses, common in long COVID. |
| Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) | A complex disorder characterized by extreme fatigue not improved by rest, possibly related to long COVID. |
Summary Timeline
| Timestamp | Event/Topic | Key Points |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00 – 02:05 | Introduction, vaccine hesitancy | Vaccine appointments underfilled; herd immunity now ~85% |
| 02:05 – 07:40 | Variants overview | California, UK, Brazilian variants with high transmissibility; traveler testing limitations |
| 07:40 – 10:40 | Convenience & vaccine benefits | Quarantine exemption, mask guidance, vaccine efficacy against variants |
| 10:40 – 19:53 | Long COVID detailed analysis | Symptoms, prevalence, immune mechanisms, relation to CFS |
| 19:53 – 26:44 | Vaccine hesitancy, fraud concerns, variant threats | Public health risk, Indian variant concerns, vaccine urgency |
| 26:44 – 32:54 | Healthcare worker perspectives | Emotional toll, regret, teaching moments, burnout |
| 32:54 – 37:23 | Travel-related quarantine challenges | Exposure management, family quarantine, vaccination benefits |
| 37:23 – 38:40 | Closing remarks | Final vaccine encouragement, example of long COVID case |
Overall, this discussion emphasizes the critical need for vaccination to combat highly transmissible variants, ease social and travel restrictions, and prevent the debilitating long COVID syndrome, while acknowledging the emotional and operational challenges faced by healthcare providers during the pandemic.
Transcript
00:00
[Music] aloha i am jason schwartz your host here at the neutral zone mauineutralzone.com we’re on kaku 88.5 fm the voice of maui and we’re also on akaku maui community tv and we’re on the web on youtube i have a very important guest dr lorrin pang who’s been here before head of our department of health here in mali hawaii today is april 29th of 2021 and we’re doing this i guess you’d say quick because dr pank feels that it’s really important to get this message out quick and wide
00:51
what’s the most important message you got for us right now uh we are having trouble filling the vaccine appointments we have a lot of vaccine but people are hesitant to come in and get a vaccine okay so we’ve been flooding the airways for the last seven to ten days going over some reasons why you might want the vaccine and then a lot of people initially told me we don’t want to hear any more health arguments we’ve heard them all and we’ve considered them all and we either made the decision yes or
01:26
no thank you but don’t call us well one of the key health arguments wasn’t really made well until a few weeks ago so i feel obligated to tell you really another reason okay so let’s go over some reasons there’s like generally three reasons one is public health we needed to have the population with a higher percent vaccinated or immune you either got the disease and you’re immune or you got vaccinated in hawaii we didn’t have that much disease compared to other places so we’re going to try to get immune by
02:05
getting the vaccine so long ago because covet is so transmissible easy to spread we said it was actually started with angela merkel in germany she said i think 70 of the population needs to be immune natural infection or vaccinated for the thing to stop spreading stop increasing stop having an outbreak 70 initially the americans said 66 but you know angela merkel from germany said 70 well that number has been modified to about 85 or higher why is that because we have variance of the virus there’s all kinds of variants and some
02:53
variants are more transmissible some are more transmissible and can make you sicker and some maybe all three more transmissible make you sicker and can dodge the immunity conferred by a previous infection normal profit or maybe a vaccine prepared against normal cobalt so that one is the south african but let’s just take the first one some are more transmissible yep some of the variants are and maui right now we have like 85 percent of our clove it on maui is a california variant that’s about 25 more transmissible than
03:32
the old clover okay 25 then we have the uk variant coming in from england or something uh that’s here in hawaii we are watching it to see if it spreads that is i would say 55 more transmissible than the normal cover remember the california was 25. this is 55 okay then we have the brazilian variant recently identified outside of brazil and spreading very quickly and it was actually identified in japan a lot of second and third generation fourth generation fourth generation japanese are in brazil
04:20
and they have dual citizenship japan and brazil so they go back to japan because the economy of brazil was suffering and then they brought in the variant identified in japan so they call it the brazilian bearing p1 watch p1 it has spread very quickly in the last eight weeks but just exploding into canada specifically british columbia specifically whistler the international ski set when you go skiing the gondola the after skiing parties the enclosed closed environment it’s kind of like a cruise ship here and
05:00
the international ski set are taking it into like they did to europe into canada now so when you watch the p1 brazilian bearing explode in canada it’s astonishing and it’s also spreading to ottawa and winnipeg and all that that is not 25 percent more transmissible than kovit not 55 more transmissible it’s 250 or 250 percent more transmissible than normal covalent and the canadians are seeing it now so we are getting visitors from canada yeah british columbians all of canada because they like to come
05:46
to hawaii and maui and of course go ahead we’ve been all these testing programs tests before testing you get here what what’s that doing isn’t that we don’t have we don’t have great testing of travelers they get a pre-travel test if they’re positive they’re blocked from coming in they have to have a negative but a lot of them come in and opt for 14-day quarantine i’m not going to do any tests some of them come in they’re supposed to have a negative test but enough come in so that they’re pending
06:25
and when they get here oh my goodness it’s positive then a pre-travel test tests you one time before coming in but you could be incubating and carrying it and not have high enough levels to trigger the pre-travel test we studied this and we feel for every thousand people coming in with a negative pre-travel test one test before coming in most of them get the test on day three so the result can be ready by the time they travel well heck they could get inoculated on the day of the test or any day after before coming in and be
07:00
incubated we feel that for every thousand coming in with a negative pre-trial test there’s seven positives that are coming in okay are you seeing that come out in the numbers as we’re hearing new cases when i see lahaina i’m figuring yeah no yeah the cases we didn’t do a big study but the cases that we looked the travels are in south maui and west maui lahaina and southland but anyway because of the variant you better up your game you better increase the vaccine coverage to 85 okay now how we’re going to do that well
07:40
the kids aren’t ready for a vaccine yet so that’s automatically you’re not going to get you know i don’t know what percent of maui’s kids let’s say 13 whatever well you’re not there yet you can’t get there until they release the kids vaccine a lot of people already took a statement i’m never going to get vaccine fine the vaccine itself is not 100 effective it’s 95 so if you vaccinate everybody five percent still susceptible and you’re chiseling down your way to 85
08:11
so that’s the public health argument then a lot of people said you know um i don’t care about the public health argument okay that’s the public health i’m me and i don’t want to get a vaccine well here’s another reason why you might want to get a vaccine now now that we have plenty of vaccine it becomes an issue of convenience pretty soon well not soon but they are offering instead of testing kind of a nuisance to test into ireland very soon you will be able to prove that you had a vaccine at least
08:44
interstate trouble that’s good not only is it convenient but you’re not positive because you have a vaccine so it fulfills both the public health argument as well as convenience and then another good reason for convenience if there’s a case who exposes a bunch of people like we got these outbreaks going on now in maui if you are vaccinated and can prove it in hawaii you don’t have to go for 14 days or 10 days quarantined that’s a big deal to contact all the people exposed and said hey no
09:23
work but i gotta work my boss said i gotta work hey no going out hey who’s gonna deliver your food you know and then you yourself spread it to your household if you’ve been vaccinated it gets you out of that now there are some caveats if you’re sick and got vaccinated oops i think i better quarantine or check you because not it’s not 100 effective if you are working at a high risk area like a nursing home whoa and you got exposed but you’ve been vaccinated i’ll take that on a case-by-case basis
10:40
a mask but that again but what you just said is in a social environment if some people aren’t vaccinated responsible action is where a mask stay distant until this thing is over no correct but if you can’t figure that out we’re amounts but if like me i’ve been vaccinated i can go to anot another bunch of vaccinated people like my office and not wear a mask but if there’s an unvaccinated person amongst us well first of all he no should i have to wear a mask i’ve been vaccinated
11:22
they say take it outside just on the balcony can i talk to that guy outside he wears his mask because he’s not vaccinated but i don’t because i’ve been vaccinated and we’re outside well you know the confusion to me is among other confusions with the talk about all the variants you know people that are uh talking about the vaccine that’s very specific the variants are we don’t know right so we don’t have a vaccine against those variants specifically and some say that the original vaccine
12:03
will then have create a condition in your body so it will only look for x it won’t look for y z that’s right what you say is true but right now we are watching most of the variants and they still respond to this vaccine okay but if you’re going to say someday they won’t so let’s just chuck the whole thing now that’s like saying hey every year we get a new flu vaccine and we’ve got to change it every year so i’m not going to use the one for this year wow yeah good point
12:35
it’s a legitimate argument but we can use the vaccine now so we don’t generate more variance the more the more disease you have for whatever reason the more variance you create every time the virus replicates there’s a chance for variation wow so okay so great good convenience right the third reason now it’s raising its ugly head it’s called long coving it used to be called chroniclevit then it was called long haulers and now it’s called long coven i wish they wouldn’t change the name
13:13
because it looks like you got a little bit of this a little bit that little black no it’s one thing it kept changing the name long covet you know that’s you we went public kalani english talked about history right now to me that just is amazing okay so that’d be pretty striking for him to give up his seat so you know what that’s looking like it is striking i mean to him but rather than say oh isn’t that interesting isn’t that peculiar isn’t that strange first of all i’ve you got to focus on
13:49
that i’m going to tell you how common it is it’s very common in people less than 50 and kind of like kalani english said he didn’t have a problem he didn’t go to the icu he didn’t have a respiratory problem but his stuff symptoms never quite went away and they persisted it’s been five months now so some guys define long covert as hey more than two months more than three months more than five months so there’s not a general consensus but in general thirty percent of people who get covered
14:22
uh mostly focusing on the guys less than 50 who never had a problem never one hospital and all that 30 will get long covert some people say it’s even higher if you look at the real subtle symptoms out of that thirty percent at least ten percent will continue on for more than five months and nobody knows if they’re going to get better and people said before you tell me if they’re going to get better or the cure you better tell me the cause of long covet do they still carry the virus probably
14:56
not most of them were never tested until after the fact they had antibodies and some of them are negative now so they think it’s kind of an immune phenomenon that you did kill the virus aggressively and in the attack of the virus wherever the virus went there was some collateral damage so they were looking at nervous system you seem to be attacking your own nervous system now there’s many nerves to get infected and many nerves to attack and cause damage the damage so far doesn’t in ten percent
15:30
doesn’t seem to clear and these guys might be stuck a long time so what nerves like what are the symptoms what are the nerves okay some guys lose their sense of smell and taste okay i can live without that but some guys can then that guy who’s committed suicide that ceo ringing of the ears that’s the seventh eighth nerd ringing he committed suicide he couldn’t suppress that and it never got better or went away then there’s a sensation i can’t breathe i can’t breathe well can you breathe or
16:00
not i feel like i can’t breathe okay oh i have this heart flutter well do you have one or not i feel like i have it that’s the vagus nerve and the intestinal upset that’s the tenth nerve do i have that right temperature vagus nerve so that is that then there’s the nerves that wake you up brain stem right you’re forever you know tired weak you can’t focus you get sleep disturbances then there’s the general brain cognitive thinking that’s what kalani english complained about
16:34
i don’t have a problem he said it publicly i just can’t do things mentally that i used to like why well objectively he couldn’t put stuff in alphabetical order file do his files but that’s objectively if he could do stuff in alphabetical order and i talked to him i know him i could say kalani you’re just different i can’t put my finger on him i don’t know about judgment that’s very subtle but what’s objective is i can’t alphabetize like i used to find but it’s kind of like a person who would
17:07
get drunk and said i can drive no you can’t i know i can jump you don’t expect people it’s with covet long cover brain fog to self-diagnose that i’m okay but here’s the things i can’t do here’s the thing i can’t no you can’t do that and you can’t have 10 percent of our population with brain fog not knowing how bad they are other than my only deficit is i can’t alphabetize no that’s not true so a lot of these long covet they’re hoping to get better
17:38
i don’t know if they’ll get better we don’t know the cause we certainly don’t know the cure and then 10 are life-changing bad they’re weak tired fatigued they feel like they’re short of breath they’re just fatigued and it’s very there’s a big chunk of them they claim it very similar to chronic fatigue syndrome in the early days of chronic fatigue syndrome we thought that was just whinging and people making it up nope uh dr davis i think ron davis from stanford
18:07
he’s actually got a test stanford these guys don’t fuss around they can pick off uh all of the chronic fatigue syndrome and it doesn’t uh what do you say false positive he his study had non-chronic fatigue syndrome and chronic he picked them all off exactly okay he claims that some of these long-standing covet guys might have similar mechanism not all of chronic fatigue syndrome he claims that he kind of got the best way not a cure but to hold how to handle chronic fatigue syndrome it’s chronic
18:43
covet and it’s counterintuitive if you try to take a guy with chronic fatigue syndrome and if you can show that a lot of chronic covet is chronic fatigue syndrome then you must handle it like chronic fatigue syndrome so let’s say jason you got chronic fatigue and i say well what’s your problem well i’m just kind of weak oh can you just push the limit a little more a little more just a little more jason that’s actually very counterproductive according to dr davids if you do that the guy
19:16
backslides like five months you really get bad you don’t push it this is not like a sprained ankle you’re trying to heal okay so it’s quite spooky the brain fog the weakness the tiredness sleep disturbances that go on and on and on okay now a coveted vaccine will prevent that of course in 95 of course and now this issue of chronic or long covet has been raised by fallacy raised by oxford raised by harvard raised by the nih raised by everybody because you needed a certain amount of time to say that’s
19:53
chronic he’s never going to get done now you remember kalani english he kept saying i thought it was depressed i thought it was like depressed well i don’t know if it’s like intrinsic depression that means depression for no reason at all or depressed because you can’t seem to shake these things you know sleep disservices i don’t know so some kind of depression makes sense like well no if i had that condition i’d be depressed too or is it intrinsic no matter how good you get
20:25
how better you get are you just like depressed so we don’t know about that and i don’t want to jump on the bandwagon and say yeah yeah depression ptsd no there’s more than enough other symptoms to say something is wrong here okay so the the best move is to pull the plug like he did rather than work against the dam and potentially make things worse without you saying yes and he had it long enough to say wait how come i’m not getting better some guys get worse and then he was diagnosed that
21:02
hey it’s been five months calling but it’s one thing to say you’ll get better at month seven or eight or nine fine just take a leave of absence but when people don’t know that’s disturbing and then here you have a vaccine it’s like what what what more did you want so hurt immunity convenience you know vaccine passport don’t need quarantine 14 days and then now long covet so you remember it’s what’s called chronic covet then long haulers and then long coven don’t think and if each one is
21:39
describing 10 don’t think oh that’s only 10 it’s the same syndrome so it’s all to add them up here add them up i hate when they change names okay so it’s good so give ro go down the road to the extreme of this path what if people are half-baked about this and we don’t get the kind of percentages to be clear then what goes on well um we are going to have first of all if there’s convenience and there’s a lot of fraud i’m not gonna get the vaccine i’m just gonna fraud my
22:18
vaccine card uh sooner or later we’ll pay for it because we’ll be having big outbreaks then we have to investigate where did the fraud what’s with the fraud we’re going to have to crack down on that fraud issue and then all the guys with a legitimate vaccine card they’ll be penalized you know a couple bad apples if you’re not going to get the vaccine don’t fraud the card because all the guys who got the vaccine you know you you’re hurting us because now we got to do all this registration
22:49
all this double check all this stuff because so if you’re not going to get the vaccine don’t draw the card but how people are not some people are taking the vaccine some aren’t the people that aren’t let’s say for whatever reason they should stay sheltered because the world out there is like the wild west you don’t know what you’re getting into yes especially when when the variants come if the vaccine protects against the variant but you didn’t get the virus you didn’t get the vaccine now you’re
23:22
dealing with a higher issue oh by the way the uk variant that spreads 55 more 60 more chance of hospitalization and mortality okay so that one is spread more cost more severe now you still didn’t get the vaccine uh first of all a lot of people just i never will um it’s a little weird when somebody says never if the stakes were upped the variant is here causes you higher or whatever uh chance of death i mean people say okay now that that’s at stake i will reconsider we’re happy if you
23:59
reconsider fine but if you just say i’m never going to do it okay fine then you may never i mean you might really be the cause of a whole bad outbreak because the variance spreads more and with more severe disease wow what about this india thing that’s going on that’s yeah that’s gigantic what’s that gonna mean that’s monstrous i will guess because i looked at their outbreak curves and they controlled it pretty well and they thought for some odd reason they controlled them i will guess that’s a
24:33
variance or multiple variants you know either triple variant on one virus type or multiple variants at once there’s so many variants we kind of stopped naming them they call it the indian variants okay and they claim that there’s a hundred of them already in the uk spread to the uk but we’re like what do you just kind of call it is it like one thing or not it doesn’t matter it’s four even before the indian and brazilian variants had like 400 variants and they named five of them
25:06
of public health importance well don’t you think the others are could be public health they just didn’t show yet because they vary later they’re off to a slower start they they started later but they can really outpace you it’s like you racing against usain bolt he started later but when she started wow okay so you know you can name the variants all you want but there’s no question when there’s big amounts of virus growing there’s going to be lots of variant and the one that can dominate wins
25:40
so that’s why maui is 85 california variant if you get introduced the brazilian variant well that’s going to win that’s more dominant and i don’t know if your vaccine can catch it the vaccine it might not be all or none it might the the the efficacy might whittle down but that’s not an excuse well that’s why i never want the vaccine because you know i have to get one a new one every year or because it might someday be no good that that kind of a weird excuse it’s good now get it now
26:14
shut down the spread at least in a way so we don’t generate variance okay but you know it’s like so that’s what we’re kind of up against and um i i’ve actually known a lot of people at the beginning said i would never get a vaccine then she said oh i’m going to get the vaccine she came to the pot and i said oh just tell me what changed just so i can tell the others she goes well i see what it’s doing it’s more severe than i thought this was even before her long coven and
26:44
i said you of all people and she said well i’m never going to get the flu vaccine that’s not that bad okay so i said well wait hey do you get the tetanus vaccine oh yeah yeah i get that i don’t want tetanus and that’s been given then she says now i say clovid fine you don’t want some vaccines you want this one how about we don’t say i don’t want any vaccine how about we say on a case-by-case basis i mean everything is on a case-by-case basis right not all vaccines are the
27:10
same except they begin with the letter v but come on guys like i’m against all drugs in general but on a case-by-case basis jason you really need this drug well i get it it’s just once okay so that’s how we got to do this so here we are with i you know maybe you have a lot of faith in people i’m not sure how you feel but oh oh wait wait you know amongst the docs we call each other quite often and we uh what do you say co we sympathize we we uh we it’s not even a collaborate we
27:53
just call each other and say how are you doing and it doesn’t mean are you stressed out that issue is actually do you have the death wish do you have the scorched earth wish so it’s like i keep telling people and they keep like whatever not doing it so what is your variation of the death wish here when they get into trouble do you say see i told you so or did you actually wish them to get in trouble to say see i told you show or did you want to get into a little bit of trouble so we can have a teaching
28:31
moment and can you stop doing that now can you stop having these big meetings so every doc i mean come on you gotta admit they might not have a death wish or a scorch earth idea but they told you stop gathering and then they always started off regrettably some people gathered and now we have these outbreaks is that not like validation like see i told you so did you want them to kind of have that so all the doctors say no wow that’s i’m never going to admit i felt that way did you feel some it’s a great zone
29:10
right are you going to use it as a teaching moment see we told you so so don’t do that again and you know what i’m saying it’s all a continuum right now i talked to another doc who kind of understands it she goes no like they’re a pediatrician right when johnny uh doesn’t put his slippers on and he steps on attack and said hey johnny um see i told you so that’s kind of like well he stepped on glass he kind of hoped it wasn’t like that but having stepped on the glass i told you
29:54
so now johnny just stepped on the glass you tell johnny don’t go into the street and he gets three and run over and dies that ain’t no learning teaching moment so how can you possibly think i wanted that dr bank then this other doc goes hey wait wait wait wait wait we learned from johnny’s death and that’s a teaching moment for the others a drug overdose the guy died well you don’t want him to die but is it a teaching moment for others damn right it is so i mean the docs have all health care workers
30:29
nurses everybody have finally come to admit this that in your need for a teaching moment did you want this to happen and now that it happened did you when it publicized i never wanted it to happen but i would take advantage of it happening to be like okay okay i get it who’s going to say i wanted it to happen but now that it happened good i’ll use it as a teaching moment well i’m sorry i didn’t mean good bad i use it as a teaching moment we all have this feeling we all raised children or
31:03
raised a sibling or somebody like i told you not to do this you see what happens okay and when bad stuff happens we still can learn from it right like did you see what happened to my neighbor here don’t do your own electrical wiring jason you get it right so there’s a lot of um emotional stress amongst healthcare workers a lot of them are leaving the field wow because you didn’t want to admit what happens when bad things happen too i mean a lot of people said oh god the guy got cancer
31:43
i i can’t deal with the stress of people dying i know but who whose fault was it i mean it’s not like you see i told well except for the smoking so we often bring up smoking you know if you’re on your death bed because of cancer and you keep smoking okay i’m still your doctor but um can i tell other patients about what happened to you you kept smoking and you you still smoke right so um i think there’s been a lot of soul-searching in the health community and we are kind of getting burned out on
32:15
multiple ways like you know wow so you know i don’t like to but i keep seeing the worst case scenario keep playing out and uh i don’t know where to go from here how is tourism going to be affected as this new vision hey check this out jason though on the positive note besides a lot of guys not doing anything these guys in your face there’s a lot of guys doing the right thing man i mean and but oh i don’t have time to them i’ve got to take care of this fire if all you do is taking care of little
32:54
fires you never see all the good things that happen all you see is fire in front of your face so here is something good here is something good you know uh it’s the visitors when they come in some of them don’t get uh some of them come in positive because they’re incubating some of them are just positive but they came in on a positive safe travel test and so i said hey hey you’re positive you weren’t supposed to come in you knew you were positive god goes yeah but i’m here now what
33:27
you got to stay here 10 days but i’m going back in five days nope you’re positive your fault they said okay but all the ones traveling with you how many guys with you hey they got the safe travel pass but now they’re exposed they got to stay here 14 days and so now there’s a fight hey you exposed me man you were positive i got to stay here 14 days yep at your expense and you told your boss you’d be back in five days worse who sat next to you on the plane here’s this guy he didn’t even know
34:01
what’s going on you your kid is exposed he stays here 14 days he was really exposed so the father goes and what all i got to say was your kid i didn’t know that he was going to stand next to this guy so his father was furious as heck i gotta do this and my family because we sat next to this guy and he was ranting and raving and yelling and screaming and i can’t talk like wow how can i help you he said give me something that you’re you’re you you side with us so i said i’ll tell you what i do
34:36
tell you what i do i ruined your vacation and i extended it so every day i’ll come out and do a rapid check for you if you guys are negative i will allow you to go out as a group not amongst others because you are exposed anyway just out of that room how’s that sound the guy goes well hell it’s still i’m here 14 days and you know i can’t go with at least we can get out of the room so i did this special thing for him so i said okay day one tomorrow let’s go check i think you’re all negative and
35:09
you can go out he brought in like five of his people he had more than people but five the first three were positive oh god then he goes you know i was really mad at you but thank you thank you no wonder you have this thing set up it sounds really mean but you diagnosed my own family as being positive yeah he got it from that airport airplane guy who knew he was positive exposing my kid and my kid has spent it amongst us yes but thank you thank you i would check the rest and look like half of his family was positive he says
35:43
i want to thank you it’s not a travel it’s not seeing hawaii it’s not a little vacation which got screwed up it’s koben so thank you if you ever need to you know so start it off is what you think i’m doing it to torture you so god the god was so happy and in the end he wrote this nice letter yes we had to stay abstract but at least it was in hawaii you know you end up refinancing his house to pay for this extra time he has to keep his army here i don’t know all he was is
36:17
thankful because health is more important than finances you know when his kids got real sick and then i said call me you know when we talked the first time the travel industry was trying to accommodate is it still it’s kind of getting out of control right how do you accomplish well we’re increasing the travelers and i can’t handle that guy was one when we were doing a thousand five hundred visitors tomorrow a day but if you’re going to increase it like eight fold can i handle eight like that and some of
36:50
them are are gonna be negative they’re exposed but negative because we’re cautious and those guys are going to get mad and sue and yell and scream how can we get around this jason all the trouble get vaccinated if you’re vaccinated you’re exempt from quarantine after exposure yay and it’s not just like i won’t look it so i won’t see it you really are not not carrying it because you’ve been vaccinated it’s not like oh you don’t see it let’s not test let’s just strike down the quarantine
37:23
roof then you don’t have to see it no you really are protected thank god uh convenience aligns with public power i thought it was 1 30. oh god well not a meeting in 15 minutes just came up well you know it might be a time for us to kind of wrap it up so yeah so your thing is you want people who are out there that haven’t had the covent test haven’t had the vaccine because we consider and choose to move forward yes okay and i don’t want by the way kalani he got covered before there was cobalt
38:03
vaccine kalani english right it’s not like he didn’t get the golden toxin well he he got covered and it was on the path to bangkok before the vaccine came out okay so right right so the rest of you get it because if you get long coven and after the fact you said oh you didn’t tell me yes i did tell you you didn’t tell me long enough or stressful enough what do you want me to do knock on your door i got you okay thank you for taking uh time in your precious schedule i will wrap this up and get it out today thank
38:40
you thank you what’s going on for okay
